Ancient Greek Amphitheater: Why You Can Hear From Back Row

[Neil Rutman]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070404162237.htm

[Chris Hornbeck]

>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070404162237.htm

I'm just glad that social and political reporting is held to
such a higher standard than scientific reporting. Otherwise,
we'd be in a real pickle.

Chris Hornbeck
"Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song,
A medley of extemporanea;
And love is a thing that can never go wrong;
and I am Marie of Roumania."
- Dorothy Parker

[hank alrich]

Because there ws no drummer. <g>

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Edi Zubovic]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 21:18:23 -0700, "Neil Rutman"
> wrote:

>http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070404162237.htm
>
-- What researchers? -- The role of stone seat rows is seen _at the
first glance_. Something akin to Fresnel lens, compris? :)

Edi Zubovic, Crikvenica, Croatia

[Mike Rivers]

They didn't have a place to plug in their amplifiers. (Greeks used
drums, but civilized ones)

Audiences didn't expect their performance to be at ear-splitting
volume.

There was a certain amount of acoustic design that focused the sound
out to the audience.

There's a space in the US Capitol in Washington where if you stand in
the right place you can hear a conversation clearly that's on the
other side of the room.

[Neil Rutman]

"There's a space in the US Capitol in Washington where if you stand in
the right place you can hear a conversation clearly that's on the
other side of the room."

I experienced something like this at Lake Powell which has hundreds if not
thousands of canyons that off shoot from the lake. One particular canyon had
was about 4 feet wide with rock on both sides probably about 100 feet high.
It went for about 200 yards (long) on a curve resembling a big 1/2 circle.
If you were on one end of the 1/2 circle and whispered you could be heard
perfectly on the other end (200 yards away). As you ventured toward the
middle the echoes were like nothing I've ever heard before, sort of
vocoderish but definately distinct. I would love to get an impulse from
there if I could ever find it again>

Neil R


"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> They didn't have a place to plug in their amplifiers. (Greeks used
> drums, but civilized ones)
>
> Audiences didn't expect their performance to be at ear-splitting
> volume.
>
> There was a certain amount of acoustic design that focused the sound
> out to the audience.
>
> There's a space in the US Capitol in Washington where if you stand in
> the right place you can hear a conversation clearly that's on the
> other side of the room.
>

[Paul Stamler]

I had similar experiences in the amphitheatre at Pompeii. Not only could a
person in the stands hear me perfectly when I spoke in a normal
conversational tone in the middle of the arena, but I could hear myself
perfectly too, as though there was a monitor system operating. But when I
bent down to tie my shoe, I still heard myself, but with a delay of at least
100ms. Very weird.

Peace,
Paul

[Scott Dorsey]

Paul Stamler > wrote:
>I had similar experiences in the amphitheatre at Pompeii. Not only could a
>person in the stands hear me perfectly when I spoke in a normal
>conversational tone in the middle of the arena, but I could hear myself
>perfectly too, as though there was a monitor system operating. But when I
>bent down to tie my shoe, I still heard myself, but with a delay of at least
>100ms. Very weird.

Vitruvius talks about what you need to do in order to get this sort of
effect, and unfortunately everything he says is completely wrong. He
talks about how wood is more resonant than stone and therefore everything
should be made of wood, and he talks about putting urns around in order to
concentrate the sound. It's worth looking up, but don't take his advice if
you are building an auditorium today.
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Les Cargill]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> They didn't have a place to plug in their amplifiers. (Greeks used
> drums, but civilized ones)
>
> Audiences didn't expect their performance to be at ear-splitting
> volume.
>
> There was a certain amount of acoustic design that focused the sound
> out to the audience.
>
> There's a space in the US Capitol in Washington where if you stand in
> the right place you can hear a conversation clearly that's on the
> other side of the room.
>

The room is an ellipse, and if you stand at one of the focii of
the ellipse, you'll hear exactly what's going on at the
other focus.

--
Les Cargill

[DC]

Paul Stamler wrote:

> I had similar experiences in the amphitheatre at Pompeii. Not only could a
> person in the stands hear me perfectly when I spoke in a normal
> conversational tone in the middle of the arena, but I could hear myself
> perfectly too, as though there was a monitor system operating. But when I
> bent down to tie my shoe, I still heard myself, but with a delay of at least
> 100ms. Very weird.


The Exploratorium in San Francisco also has a room like that.

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article . com>,
"Mike Rivers" > wrote:

> They didn't have a place to plug in their amplifiers. (Greeks used
> drums, but civilized ones)
>
> Audiences didn't expect their performance to be at ear-splitting
> volume.
>
> There was a certain amount of acoustic design that focused the sound
> out to the audience.
>
> There's a space in the US Capitol in Washington where if you stand in
> the right place you can hear a conversation clearly that's on the
> other side of the room.

The Vatican is like this. If you whisper into a column, someone standing
far away next to a column that connects via the arches in the ceiling
can hear you as if you were standing next to them. I can only imagine
the intrigues that made use of this over the centuries!

Edwin

[[email protected]]

On Apr 6, 9:18 pm, "Neil Rutman" > wrote:
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070404162237.htm

I have been to these amplitheaters in Greece. Yes, the center on the
stage has a round stone on it where the voice will be heard anywhere
in the arena. This does require everyone be very silent, much more
than modern audiences. It also requires that there be no wind as that
will blow the sound out of the amplitheater.

I suspect the Greeks had a way to control audience levels, they
probably would cut your tongue out if they caught you talking.

We could use those techniques today, ehh?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[Doc Weaver]

On Apr 7, 9:23 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Paul Stamler > wrote:
> >I had similar experiences in the amphitheatre at Pompeii. Not only could a
> >person in the stands hear me perfectly when I spoke in a normal
> >conversational tone in the middle of the arena, but I could hear myself
> >perfectly too, as though there was a monitor system operating. But when I
> >bent down to tie my shoe, I still heard myself, but with a delay of at least
> >100ms. Very weird.
>
> Vitruvius talks about what you need to do in order to get this sort of
> effect, and unfortunately everything he says is completely wrong. He
> talks about how wood is more resonant than stone and therefore everything
> should be made of wood, and he talks about putting urns around in order to
> concentrate the sound. It's worth looking up, but don't take his advice if
> you are building an auditorium today.> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Scott,
you're right on many counts. I noticed the reference to wood, but
it's more than that IMO. There seems to be less and less
architectural integrity when it comes to acoustics. Doesn't it seem
that the more advanced sound reinforcement and acoustic control gets,
the less the architects seem to care about designing an acoustically
sound (excuse the pun) building?

Doc Weaver

[Mogens V.]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> They didn't have a place to plug in their amplifiers. (Greeks used
> drums, but civilized ones)
>
> Audiences didn't expect their performance to be at ear-splitting
> volume.
>
> There was a certain amount of acoustic design that focused the sound
> out to the audience.

An antenna shop here in Cph used to have a parbolic antenna at the wall
for diplay, mounted to exactly face across a four lane street.
We fit a small firecracker in the focal point and light it when someone
passed by on the other side. Didn't make much noice where we were, but
those on the other side had a good bang. Nice focused sound :-D

--
Kind regards,
Mogens V.

[Dodd Martin[_2_]]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 07:06:29 -0700, jwilliams3 wrote:

> I have been to these amplitheaters in Greece. Yes, the center on the
> stage has a round stone on it where the voice will be heard anywhere in
> the arena. This does require everyone be very silent, much more than
> modern audiences. It also requires that there be no wind as that will
> blow the sound out of the amplitheater.
>

Have any of you guys ever done a gig at the amphitheater in Plovdiv,
Bulgaria? I am going there in July and due to logistics have to split my
gear to go to two different places. I am wondering how much I'll really
need to bring to this amphitheater.

Dodd Martin