MOTU midi timepiece resistor burned

[Marcello Mastroiani]

Hi guys.

My original MOTU midi timepiece (not MkII) uses a AC/DC 9V adaptor. But, I
guess someone in my studio used a AC 9V adaptor (can't be sure, actually)
and it doesn't work anymore. I tried to open it, and the resistor connected
to the + is burned totally. Does anyone know (has schematics, opened one,
has one and would be kind enough to open it and check) what type it is? I
would like to replace it, but can't tell which one is it, since there are no
colors anymore, it's just black. :)

Thanks, Joshua

[Gareth Magennis]

"Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys.
>
> My original MOTU midi timepiece (not MkII) uses a AC/DC 9V adaptor. But, I
> guess someone in my studio used a AC 9V adaptor (can't be sure, actually)
> and it doesn't work anymore. I tried to open it, and the resistor
> connected to the + is burned totally. Does anyone know (has schematics,
> opened one, has one and would be kind enough to open it and check) what
> type it is? I would like to replace it, but can't tell which one is it,
> since there are no colors anymore, it's just black. :)
>
> Thanks, Joshua
>


Are you sure it is not a diode? Often there is one connected in reverse so
that the wrong polarity puts loads of current throught the diode to ground,
and it usually melts short circuit.


Gareth.

[Marcello Mastroiani]

No, it's a simple resistor, guaranteed. Should I put a reverse diode? I
contacted MOTU support, the guy, insolently as usual, wrote back that they
"cannot provide the info requested because they don't supply spare parts for
their interfaces"

Quote:

> Hello,


> Thank you for your email.


> This information is not available. MOTU cannot supply spare parts for our
> interfaces.


> Thanks for writing,
> Nathan
> MOTU Tech

This is not a spare part! I just asked what type resistor they put on the
current input of the midi timepiece...


"Gareth Magennis" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi guys.
>>
>> My original MOTU midi timepiece (not MkII) uses a AC/DC 9V adaptor. But,
>> I guess someone in my studio used a AC 9V adaptor (can't be sure,
>> actually) and it doesn't work anymore. I tried to open it, and the
>> resistor connected to the + is burned totally. Does anyone know (has
>> schematics, opened one, has one and would be kind enough to open it and
>> check) what type it is? I would like to replace it, but can't tell which
>> one is it, since there are no colors anymore, it's just black. :)
>>
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>
>
> Are you sure it is not a diode? Often there is one connected in reverse so
> that the wrong polarity puts loads of current throught the diode to
> ground, and it usually melts short circuit.
>
>
> Gareth.
>

[Scott Dorsey]

Marcello Mastroiani > wrote:
>No, it's a simple resistor, guaranteed. Should I put a reverse diode? I
>contacted MOTU support, the guy, insolently as usual, wrote back that they
>"cannot provide the info requested because they don't supply spare parts for
>their interfaces"

Nope, you're going to have to break down and take it to a tech who will
figure out what the value is supposed to be from what it's loading.

And you're going to have to hope that he doesn't find anything else wrong.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[hank alrich]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Marcello Mastroiani wrote:
> >No, it's a simple resistor, guaranteed. Should I put a reverse diode? I
> >contacted MOTU support, the guy, insolently as usual, wrote back that they
> >"cannot provide the info requested because they don't supply spare parts for
> >their interfaces"

He's covering his ass because he doesn't have a clue, may never have met
a resistor in person.

> Nope, you're going to have to break down and take it to a tech who will
> figure out what the value is supposed to be from what it's loading.
>
> And you're going to have to hope that he doesn't find anything else wrong.

The guys at MOTU don't build their stuff, and likely know nothing about
what's inside it. Sometimes I find DP tempting, and sometimes I find the
feature-sets of their kit appealing, but in the end I am completely
unfascinated by their concept of "support".

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Marcello Mastroiani]

C'mon guys, they MUST have service manuals or schematics for their stuff ON
THE TABLE, otherwise, what kind of support is it?! Moral? :))
Like: "Dear Sir, we don't know anything and can't help you with your
problem, but we strongly hope you will find the solution.
MOTU moral support" :)

How am I going to find out what kind or resistor it is when it's TOTALLY
burned? It's black, there are no other colors on it...


"hank alrich" > wrote in message
...
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> Marcello Mastroiani wrote:
>> >No, it's a simple resistor, guaranteed. Should I put a reverse diode? I
>> >contacted MOTU support, the guy, insolently as usual, wrote back that
>> >they
>> >"cannot provide the info requested because they don't supply spare parts
>> >for
>> >their interfaces"
>
> He's covering his ass because he doesn't have a clue, may never have met
> a resistor in person.
>
>> Nope, you're going to have to break down and take it to a tech who will
>> figure out what the value is supposed to be from what it's loading.
>>
>> And you're going to have to hope that he doesn't find anything else
>> wrong.
>
> The guys at MOTU don't build their stuff, and likely know nothing about
> what's inside it. Sometimes I find DP tempting, and sometimes I find the
> feature-sets of their kit appealing, but in the end I am completely
> unfascinated by their concept of "support".
>
> --
> ha
> Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Richard Crowley]

"Marcello Mastroiani" wrote ...
> C'mon guys, they MUST have service manuals or schematics for their stuff
> ON THE TABLE, otherwise, what kind of support is it?! Moral? :))
> Like: "Dear Sir, we don't know anything and can't help you with your
> problem, but we strongly hope you will find the solution.
> MOTU moral support" :)
>
> How am I going to find out what kind or resistor it is when it's TOTALLY
> burned? It's black, there are no other colors on it...

"Support" consists of sending the unit back to their service people
(or some other authorized organization).

There are plenty of examples of equipment out there for which the
vendor has never released service information, schematics, etc.
Lots of manufacturers think their stuff is "too special" for general
public rabble to try to "service". (Or perhaps they are embarassed
for the innards to be exposed to public scrutiny.) OTOH, it may be
an attempt to maintain their "trade secret" (the design of the unit).

If you can post a photo of that part of the board, you might convince
some other owner to pop their unit open and try to describe the
obliterated part.

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 4, 8:43 pm, "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote:
> C'mon guys, they MUST have service manuals or schematics for their stuff ON
> THE TABLE, otherwise, what kind of support is it?

Chances are the Tech Support people don't know a schematic diagram
from a football play diagram. And it's typical of high tech
manufacturers not to release their schematics because they don't want
to make their circuitry too easy for their competitors to copy.


So you do what you've done and ask if someone who has the same unit as
you is willing to open it up and help you to indentify the resistor.
Maybe there's a MOTU user's forum where you're likely to find more
people who have a MIDI Timepiece than here. It would be helpful if you
were to take a photo showing the burned resistor and post it on line
somewhere. It might encourage someone to open up their unit for you if
they see it's not a big deal.

If this is a power supply thing, you should be able to draw out the
schematic, at least from the power input to where the resistor goes,
and you may be able to make an educated guess as to its value. But
before replacing it, try to figure out why it blew.

[Scott Dorsey]

Marcello Mastroiani > wrote:
>C'mon guys, they MUST have service manuals or schematics for their stuff ON
>THE TABLE, otherwise, what kind of support is it?! Moral? :))

I doubt that anyone in the US has even seen the schematic. This stuff is
designed overseas, then shipped to the us for sales.

What kind of support is it? It's not support. You have just joined the
consumer electronics world, where support does not exist.

>Like: "Dear Sir, we don't know anything and can't help you with your
>problem, but we strongly hope you will find the solution.
>MOTU moral support" :)

That's about what you get. What you are witnessing is the takeover of
the pro audio world by consumer electronics.... the vast majority of
buyers today don't want to pay for something that is properly supported,
so that is the first thing the vendors cut.

>How am I going to find out what kind or resistor it is when it's TOTALLY
>burned? It's black, there are no other colors on it...

By looking at the circuit around it. You also want to know what happened
when it went black, and therefore what else nearby could have failed. If
it's a series resistor in front of a crowbar circuit, it's probably a very
small value... by looking at how the crowbar kicks in you can make some
assumption about the value.

You have to troubleshoot this stuff like consumer electronics, without the
documentation. It's no fun, but TV repair guys have been doing it for
decades.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Marcello Mastroiani]

Look, a standard AC/DC adaptor has + and - (ground), This resistor is
connected directly to the adaptor + input, and after that connection it goes
to the board. There ARE NO other resistors!!! It's the simplest design ever.
I thought it would be like asking a guy with a Honda Civic what kind of
sparks it uses!!! Because it actually IS like that! :(

I'm a bit frustrated. I bought some owner manuals online, scanned them and
put them on my site for download, now plan to make a site with totally
obscure manuals (I found 3 more), so I thought that was the way the net
works... I thought we are here to help each other...

[Meindert Sprang]

"Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
...
> Hi guys.
>
> My original MOTU midi timepiece (not MkII) uses a AC/DC 9V adaptor. But, I
> guess someone in my studio used a AC 9V adaptor (can't be sure, actually)
> and it doesn't work anymore. I tried to open it, and the resistor
connected
> to the + is burned totally. Does anyone know (has schematics, opened one,
> has one and would be kind enough to open it and check) what type it is? I
> would like to replace it, but can't tell which one is it, since there are
no
> colors anymore, it's just black. :)

If this "resistor" is in series with the + line, there is probably a diode
somewhere to ground, protecting the thing form reverse polarity. If that is
the case, this might either have been a resistor is the range of 10 ohm or
so or a solderable fuse. Like others have said, try and take a picture of
the circuit surrounding this "resistor" and I might be able to tell you what
it is.

Meindert

[John L Rice]

"Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
...
> Look, a standard AC/DC adaptor has + and - (ground), This resistor is
> connected directly to the adaptor + input, and after that connection it
> goes to the board. There ARE NO other resistors!!! It's the simplest
> design ever.
> I thought it would be like asking a guy with a Honda Civic what kind of
> sparks it uses!!! Because it actually IS like that! :(
>
> I'm a bit frustrated. I bought some owner manuals online, scanned them and
> put them on my site for download, now plan to make a site with totally
> obscure manuals (I found 3 more), so I thought that was the way the net
> works... I thought we are here to help each other...

Well, you've already gotten some good advice so I'd say you've already
gotten more than you've 'paid for' on the internet. If you are upset with
that then . . . prepare yourself to reap even less.

These people don't 'owe' you squat so don't give them attitude when they are
just trying to help you.

And hopefully you aren't violating copyright laws by publishing manuals on
your web site . . .

John L Rice

[John L Rice]

OK, here is some helpful information. You can buy a working one on Ebay for
$15 to $40. Save yourself a lot of time and frustration. Then you can also
see what the part is, repair your first one and then sell one of them. You
might even make money on the deal.

best of luck.

--
John L Rice

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:21:34 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
> wrote:

>If this "resistor" is in series with the + line, there is probably a diode
>somewhere to ground, protecting the thing form reverse polarity.

Don't rely on it. Sometimes reverse-polarity protection consists of
sacrificing a component. As I know to my cost with an expensive Sony
Professional Walkman :-( Maybe that's what happened here?

[Meindert Sprang]

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 08:21:34 +0200, "Meindert Sprang"
> > wrote:
>
> >If this "resistor" is in series with the + line, there is probably a
diode
> >somewhere to ground, protecting the thing form reverse polarity.
>
> Don't rely on it. Sometimes reverse-polarity protection consists of
> sacrificing a component. As I know to my cost with an expensive Sony
> Professional Walkman :-( Maybe that's what happened here?

That actually was what I meant to say. This "resistor" is either a real one
used as a fuse or it is really a fuse.

Meindert

[Gareth Magennis]

"Meindert Sprang" > wrote in message
l.nl...
> "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hi guys.
>>
>> My original MOTU midi timepiece (not MkII) uses a AC/DC 9V adaptor. But,
>> I
>> guess someone in my studio used a AC 9V adaptor (can't be sure, actually)
>> and it doesn't work anymore. I tried to open it, and the resistor
> connected
>> to the + is burned totally. Does anyone know (has schematics, opened one,
>> has one and would be kind enough to open it and check) what type it is? I
>> would like to replace it, but can't tell which one is it, since there are
> no
>> colors anymore, it's just black. :)
>
> If this "resistor" is in series with the + line, there is probably a diode
> somewhere to ground, protecting the thing form reverse polarity. If that
> is
> the case, this might either have been a resistor is the range of 10 ohm or
> so or a solderable fuse. Like others have said, try and take a picture of
> the circuit surrounding this "resistor" and I might be able to tell you
> what
> it is.
>
> Meindert
>
>

That would be my best guess too. If the circuit confirms this then first
check the diode (or for a few cents just replace it) then try a 100 ohm
resistor and see if it gets hot. If so, there is probably some other damage
somewhere. If not, the unit might actually start working or at least show
some signs of life. A typical fuse resistor value is, as Meindert says, 10
or 4.7 ohms or something like that. Too high a value (say that 100 ohms)
may cause excessive power supply ripple and the unit may crash or not boot
or be unstable, but it won't be damaged.



Gareth.

[Scott Dorsey]

Marcello Mastroiani > wrote:
>Look, a standard AC/DC adaptor has + and - (ground), This resistor is
>connected directly to the adaptor + input, and after that connection it goes
>to the board. There ARE NO other resistors!!! It's the simplest design ever.
>I thought it would be like asking a guy with a Honda Civic what kind of
>sparks it uses!!! Because it actually IS like that! :(

Right. That is probably a protection resistor, that exists so that if the
board becomes a dead short, the power supply won't blow up.

The board may have a diode on it and a clamp circuit to prevent over
voltage and reverse voltage. It's possible one of those activated when
you applied the wrong power, and took the resistor out.

It's also possible something on the board was damaged, failed into a dead
short and took the resistor out.

That resistor is probably in the 10 to 100 ohm range, but you won't know
without looking at the circuit on the board and working out the current
demand and how much drop you can live with in the design.

>I'm a bit frustrated. I bought some owner manuals online, scanned them and
>put them on my site for download, now plan to make a site with totally
>obscure manuals (I found 3 more), so I thought that was the way the net
>works... I thought we are here to help each other...

We are ALL frustrated because we ALL have to deal with this crap. If you
think THIS is bad, try and get a schematic for a video monitor or a
computer motherboard these days. This equipment is not intended to be
repaired, so nobody actually has docs, not even the people selling them.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Marcello Mastroiani]

I'm not giving anybody attitude, that's for sure.

What is also true, is that now finnally I got some REALLY important and
helpful answers. Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)

I'll look into it and write back...

P.S. I don't remember seeing any diodes... actually, I remember seeing one
EPROM, optocoupler, and that's it... the board is almost empty...

[Meindert Sprang]

"Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
...
> I'm not giving anybody attitude, that's for sure.
>
> What is also true, is that now finnally I got some REALLY important and
> helpful answers. Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)
>
> I'll look into it and write back...
>
> P.S. I don't remember seeing any diodes... actually, I remember seeing one
> EPROM, optocoupler, and that's it... the board is almost empty...

If you only see a few conventional components on one side of the board,
there's a good chance that the other side is full of SMD components.

Meindert

[Marcello Mastroiani]

Check that too, none. but the fact is, it doesn't even need many components,
the computer driver is it's No1 component...



"Meindert Sprang" > wrote in message
ll.nl...
> "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I'm not giving anybody attitude, that's for sure.
>>
>> What is also true, is that now finnally I got some REALLY important and
>> helpful answers. Thank you, thank you, thank you! :)
>>
>> I'll look into it and write back...
>>
>> P.S. I don't remember seeing any diodes... actually, I remember seeing
>> one
>> EPROM, optocoupler, and that's it... the board is almost empty...
>
> If you only see a few conventional components on one side of the board,
> there's a good chance that the other side is full of SMD components.
>
> Meindert
>
>

[Meindert Sprang]

"Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
...
> Check that too, none. but the fact is, it doesn't even need many
components,
> the computer driver is it's No1 component...

Mmmm... would be nice if you could make a hi-res picture of the board and
put it up somewhere for us to take a peek.

Meindert

[Marcello Mastroiani]

I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't use
MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have been
(there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
there; then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned resistor
I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's probably a 10k
so it seemed logical enough) soldered everything together, and tomorrow I'll
go buy a stabilised AC/DC adaptor, (the local electronic store didn't have
any today, they sold them all! I couldn't take another from my studio
because it's closed for the hollidays, my partner has the only key, because
it's in his house, and he went to get married in Kosovo - sounds like a
joke, but it's not) and try if it works. Hopefully I won't burn the whole
interface down. :) I don't own a digital camera now, since every dime I get
I spend on equipment, a digital camera is not on my
studio-equipment-must-have list. :)

Anyways, I'll let you guys know...


"Meindert Sprang" > wrote in message
ll.nl...
> "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Check that too, none. but the fact is, it doesn't even need many
> components,
>> the computer driver is it's No1 component...
>
> Mmmm... would be nice if you could make a hi-res picture of the board and
> put it up somewhere for us to take a peek.
>
> Meindert
>
>

[Meindert Sprang]

"Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
...
> I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
> around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't use
> MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
> wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have been
> (there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
> there; then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned
resistor
> I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's probably a 10k
> so it seemed logical enough)

No, we said 10 ohm, not 10 kohm.

Meindert

[Marcello Mastroiani]

Uhhhh, should I change it? :) Maybe shortcircuit that one?



"Meindert Sprang" > wrote in message
l.nl...
> "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
>> around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't
>> use
>> MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
>> wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have
>> been
>> (there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
>> there; then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned
> resistor
>> I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's probably a
>> 10k
>> so it seemed logical enough)
>
> No, we said 10 ohm, not 10 kohm.
>
> Meindert
>
>

[Richard Crowley]

"Marcello Mastroiani" wrote ...
>I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
>around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't use
>MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
>wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have been
>(there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
>there; then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned
>resistor I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's
>probably a 10k so it seemed logical enough) soldered everything together,
>and tomorrow I'll go buy a stabilised AC/DC adaptor, (the local electronic
>store didn't have any today, they sold them all! I couldn't take another
>from my studio because it's closed for the hollidays, my partner has the
>only key, because it's in his house, and he went to get married in Kosovo -
>sounds like a joke, but it's not) and try if it works. Hopefully I won't
>burn the whole interface down. :) I don't own a digital camera now, since
>every dime I get I spend on equipment, a digital camera is not on my
>studio-equipment-must-have list. :)
>
> Anyways, I'll let you guys know...

Red = 2
If that is really the first band (and not just the first one that
isn't obliterated), then the value begins with the digit "2".
http://www.elexp.com/tips/clr_code.gif

10K is likely way too high a value for a protective series resistor.
It would allow very little power to flow to run the device.

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 6, 4:58 pm, "Marcello Mastroiani" > wrote:
> Uhhhh, should I change it? :) Maybe shortcircuit that one?

There isn't a big difference between 10 ohms and a short circuit,
particularly with fairly low current. But if you have a 10K resistor
in series with the power supply output, it'll probably drop most of
the supply voltage and the circuit won't operate.

By the way, red is 2 in the standard resistor color code. If it's
indeed in series with the power supply, it's unlikely that the red
band would be the multiplier (the last rather than the first band of
the code), because that would make it a minimum of 1K, so if it's a
color coded value at all, it's probably 2 or 20 ohms.

If it's really in series with the power supply, I'd just put a jumper
in its place, at least for test purposes.

[Marcello Mastroiani]

Argh,
I'll buy a digital camera tomorrow and make photos to show it to you guys. I
don't get this with colors. I just used my trusty multimeter who told me
it's 10k. :) Maybe I did that wrong too...
It's red, red, brown, brown. What does a 10Ohm look like?



"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Marcello Mastroiani" wrote ...
>>I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
>>around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't use
>>MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
>>wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have been
>>(there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
>>there; then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned
>>resistor I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's
>>probably a 10k so it seemed logical enough) soldered everything together,
>>and tomorrow I'll go buy a stabilised AC/DC adaptor, (the local electronic
>>store didn't have any today, they sold them all! I couldn't take another
>>from my studio because it's closed for the hollidays, my partner has the
>>only key, because it's in his house, and he went to get married in
>>Kosovo - sounds like a joke, but it's not) and try if it works. Hopefully
>>I won't burn the whole interface down. :) I don't own a digital camera
>>now, since every dime I get I spend on equipment, a digital camera is not
>>on my studio-equipment-must-have list. :)
>>
>> Anyways, I'll let you guys know...
>
> Red = 2
> If that is really the first band (and not just the first one that
> isn't obliterated), then the value begins with the digit "2".
> http://www.elexp.com/tips/clr_code.gif
>
> 10K is likely way too high a value for a protective series resistor.
> It would allow very little power to flow to run the device.
>
>

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Marcello Mastroiani > wrote:
>I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
>around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't use
>MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
>wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have been
>(there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
>there;

Are you SURE this is correct? What makes you think this wasn't an ECO?
I'd make a bet that diode was in the right place unless you saw obvious
signs of retrofitting.

then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned resistor
>I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's probably a 10k
>so it seemed logical enough)

No, we said it was probably 10ohms to 100 ohms. It's a current limiting
resistor, remember. Since you don't know the current you can't make much
of a guess.

The only reason a 10K resistor would have a red stripe is if it was a 2%
resistor and you were looking at the last (tolerance) band. Remember the
rule: BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.

>soldered everything together, and tomorrow I'll
>go buy a stabilised AC/DC adaptor, (the local electronic store didn't have
>any today, they sold them all! I couldn't take another from my studio
>because it's closed for the hollidays, my partner has the only key, because
>it's in his house, and he went to get married in Kosovo - sounds like a
>joke, but it's not) and try if it works. Hopefully I won't burn the whole
>interface down. :)

Make sure the polarity is correct too. Odds are that's what damaged the last
one.

>I don't own a digital camera now, since every dime I get
>I spend on equipment, a digital camera is not on my
>studio-equipment-must-have list. :)

Hey, I am still using the Crown Graphic that I bought in High school (sort
of like the big Kiev press camera) and it works just fine.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Marcello Mastroiani" wrote ...
> Argh,
> I'll buy a digital camera tomorrow and make photos to show it to you guys.
> I don't get this with colors. I just used my trusty multimeter who told me
> it's 10k. :) Maybe I did that wrong too...
> It's red, red, brown, brown.

According to the chart (GIF cited previously):

Red, Red, Brown = 220 ohms,
Red, Red, Brown, Brown = 221 ohms

> What does a 10 Ohm look like?

Brown, Black, Black

Here's another one:
http://www.dannyg.com/examples/res2/resistor.htm
Select the colors and it will tell you the value.

[Marcello Mastroiani]

> Are you SURE this is correct? What makes you think this wasn't an ECO?
> I'd make a bet that diode was in the right place unless you saw obvious
> signs of retrofitting.

Yes, there are obvious signs of retrofitting. Soldering precize like a horse
did it, messy as hell, on a otherwise very clean board. :)

> The only reason a 10K resistor would have a red stripe is if it was a 2%
> resistor and you were looking at the last (tolerance) band.

Is that popularly used this way?

> Remember the
> rule: BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
> Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.

Nice one! :)

>
>>soldered everything together, and tomorrow I'll
>>go buy a stabilised AC/DC adaptor, (the local electronic store didn't have
>>any today, they sold them all! I couldn't take another from my studio
>>because it's closed for the hollidays, my partner has the only key,
>>because
>>it's in his house, and he went to get married in Kosovo - sounds like a
>>joke, but it's not) and try if it works. Hopefully I won't burn the whole
>>interface down. :)
>
> Make sure the polarity is correct too. Odds are that's what damaged the
> last
> one.

No, I'm pretty sure it was an AC adaptor, but it's possible.

>
>>I don't own a digital camera now, since every dime I get
>>I spend on equipment, a digital camera is not on my
>>studio-equipment-must-have list. :)
>
> Hey, I am still using the Crown Graphic that I bought in High school (sort
> of like the big Kiev press camera) and it works just fine.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 6 Apr 2007 22:33:48 +0200, "Marcello Mastroiani"
> wrote:

>I did something better! :) It seems the interface was already soldered
>around once, (I guess we weren't using it a couple of years, we didn't use
>MACs for some time) and THE diode was soldered under the board, totally
>wrong, - to +! :) I found the place on the board where it should have been
>(there is a designated place on the board for that diode!), soldered it
>there; then took a 10k resistor lying around, (because on my burned resistor
>I see one red stripe, the first one, and you guys said it's probably a 10k
>so it seemed logical enough) soldered everything together, and tomorrow I'll
>go buy a stabilised AC/DC adaptor, (the local electronic store didn't have
>any today, they sold them all! I couldn't take another from my studio
>because it's closed for the hollidays, my partner has the only key, because
>it's in his house, and he went to get married in Kosovo - sounds like a
>joke, but it's not) and try if it works. Hopefully I won't burn the whole
>interface down. :) I don't own a digital camera now, since every dime I get
>I spend on equipment, a digital camera is not on my
>studio-equipment-must-have list. :)


A diode soldered on the underside is common practice. Don't assume
it's a mistake.

Circuit boards often have spare marked spaces. The unit worked
before you blew it up (possibly by applying the wrong power). I think
you can assume it was constructed properly.

A 10 ohm resistor was suggested, not a 10K

[Laurence Payne]

On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 05:35:01 +0200, "Marcello Mastroiani"
> wrote:

>> Make sure the polarity is correct too. Odds are that's what damaged the
>> last
>> one.
>
>No, I'm pretty sure it was an AC adaptor, but it's possible.

If DC is required, AC *IS* wrong polarity :-)

From the MOTU support site:


MOTU Power Supplies
Most MOTU products use an internal switchable power supply which
accept a standard power cable. However some older units did have "wall
wart" power supplies which are not as simple to replace. Here is a
list in case yours succumbs to entropy:

MIDI Timepiece (original):
9 Volt, 500 mA, Positive Tip

[John L Rice]

> The only reason a 10K resistor would have a red stripe is if it was a 2%
> resistor and you were looking at the last (tolerance) band. Remember the
> rule: BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
> Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.

Here's one that is a little more PC :
Bi Boys Routinely Obtain Yellow Goo By Voraciously Gobbling Willies

. . . uummmm . . never mind . . . .

John L Rice

[Marcello Mastroiani]

No, it's not. Reverse polarity and wrong current is IMHO pretty different.
If you put gasoline in your diesel-driven car is one thing, but if you put
Coca-Cola...

In both cases, you blew it, but the first case doesn't ruin everthing. The
other, however....

I remember connecting an Alesis D4 once (didn't care to check) to an AC/DC
adaptor, and it worked. I mean, it lighted up and greeted me, looked like it
was working, I could change the parameters and browse the menus, but it
didn't respond to the pads or make any sounds. When I connected an AC
adaptor, it worked perfectly, so...

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 7 Apr 2007 05:35:01 +0200, "Marcello Mastroiani"
> > wrote:
>
>>> Make sure the polarity is correct too. Odds are that's what damaged the
>>> last
>>> one.
>>
>>No, I'm pretty sure it was an AC adaptor, but it's possible.
>
> If DC is required, AC *IS* wrong polarity :-)
>
> From the MOTU support site:
>
>
> MOTU Power Supplies
> Most MOTU products use an internal switchable power supply which
> accept a standard power cable. However some older units did have "wall
> wart" power supplies which are not as simple to replace. Here is a
> list in case yours succumbs to entropy:
>
> MIDI Timepiece (original):
> 9 Volt, 500 mA, Positive Tip

[Richard Crowley]

"Marcello Mastroiani" wrote...
> No, it's not. Reverse polarity and wrong current is IMHO pretty
> different.

You have ample reason to think humbly of your opinion,
at least when it comes to electronics. You really don't
appear to undestand what you are trying to describe.

> If you put gasoline in your diesel-driven car is one thing, but if you
> put Coca-Cola...
>
> In both cases, you blew it, but the first case doesn't ruin everthing.
> The other, however....
>
> I remember connecting an Alesis D4 once (didn't care to check) to an
> AC/DC adaptor, and it worked. I mean, it lighted up and greeted me,
> looked like it was working, I could change the parameters and browse
> the menus, but it didn't respond to the pads or make any sounds. When
> I connected an AC adaptor, it worked perfectly, so...

Because it takes only + voltage (likely +5V) to run the logic,
but it takes both + and - to operate the audio parts.

[Scott Dorsey]

Marcello Mastroiani > wrote:
>No, it's not. Reverse polarity and wrong current is IMHO pretty different.
>If you put gasoline in your diesel-driven car is one thing, but if you put
>Coca-Cola...

Reverse polarity makes electrolytic caps explode. If you put AC on an
electrolytic cap, it will indeed explode because of the reverse half of
the AC cycle.

>In both cases, you blew it, but the first case doesn't ruin everthing. The
>other, however....

Okay, you need to draw out the power supply stage. IF it's got an AC input,
you will see one side of the AC line will be tied to ground, and the other
will go through the safety resistor to two diodes, one in either direction
to produce a positive and a negative voltage rail.

If this is the case, there really isn't anything that can damage the safety
resistor other than something upstream failing badly.


If it has DC input, there will be the safety resistor, then there may be
a shunt diode between the line and ground, then it will go right into
the regulator. If this is the case, reverse polarity will cause the
shunt diode to turn on and burn up the safety resistor to protect the stuff
upstream. Also, sometimes the shunt diodes themselves will fail and take
out the resistor.

The resistor failed for a reason. What that reason might be depends on
how the supply is configured, so stop immediately and figure out what it
is.

>I remember connecting an Alesis D4 once (didn't care to check) to an AC/DC
>adaptor, and it worked. I mean, it lighted up and greeted me, looked like it
>was working, I could change the parameters and browse the menus, but it
>didn't respond to the pads or make any sounds. When I connected an AC
>adaptor, it worked perfectly, so...

Right. In THIS case, what happened was that by putting DC in, power got to
one of the two diodes, and so ONE of the two supply rails had power. If it
was the positive rail, probably all the digital stuff worked but the analogue
electronics that used both rails didn't.

If, on the other hand, it had been designed for DC and you applied AC, the
results would have been more apt to be harmful.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 15:28:24 +0200, "Marcello Mastroiani"
> wrote:

>No, it's not. Reverse polarity and wrong current is IMHO pretty different.
>If you put gasoline in your diesel-driven car is one thing, but if you put
>Coca-Cola...

Is that supposed to be a meaningful analogy? :-)

AC is reverse polarity half of the time. Quite possibly that half is
sufficient to blow something.

>
>In both cases, you blew it, but the first case doesn't ruin everthing. The
>other, however....
>
>I remember connecting an Alesis D4 once (didn't care to check) to an AC/DC
>adaptor, and it worked. I mean, it lighted up and greeted me, looked like it
>was working, I could change the parameters and browse the menus, but it
>didn't respond to the pads or make any sounds. When I connected an AC
>adaptor, it worked perfectly, so...

....some of the circuitry wanted DC at the input voltage, or didn't
care about polarity. Simple example - a light bulb. But other parts
were fed through a transformer. DC had no effect.

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 8, 12:26 pm, Laurence Payne

> ...some of the circuitry wanted DC at the input voltage, or didn't
> care about polarity. Simple example - a light bulb. But other parts
> were fed through a transformer. DC had no effect.

Typically (but not always) when a device uses an external low voltage
AC power source it's because it goes directly to a bridge rectifier to
make a bipolar DC power supply. If you feed it with DC instead of AC,
half of the bridge will work because current will pass through it in
one direction, but the other half won't have the other polarity to
pass. So if the guts is supposed to operate on +/-12V, it will only
have (probably) +12V. So some parts will work, some won't work, and
some will work poorly.

If the circuitry only require a single polarity supply, most of the
time they use a DC wall wart into a regulator rather than putting the
rectifier and filter capacitors inside the device. It's cheaper to let
the wall wart manufacturer, who buys a gazillion rectifiers and
electronlytic capacitors, do it.

[Marcello Mastroiani]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "Marcello Mastroiani" wrote...
>> No, it's not. Reverse polarity and wrong current is IMHO pretty
>> different.
>
> You have ample reason to think humbly of your opinion,
> at least when it comes to electronics. You really don't
> appear to undestand what you are trying to describe.

I believe I explaine what I think and I why I think lik that.
No need to get nervous, as I said, I don't know much about electronics, and
looking at the sentences written now, I see I wrote what I wrote because of
a language barrier, the guy wrote:

> If DC is required, AC *IS* wrong polarity :-)

Well, in my language that wouldn't be true. But in english, it is. It's a
bit hard to explain, but in my language, wrong polarity is ONLY + to - or
viceversa, not AC when you need DC, that is called wrong current (it is the
same as applying 110V when you need 220V).

But actually, logically it is the same, because it sends wrong polarity half
the time. :)

Sorry guys, but these things are bound to happen, english is not my native
language...

Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it...



>> If you put gasoline in your diesel-driven car is one thing, but if you
>> put Coca-Cola...
>>
>> In both cases, you blew it, but the first case doesn't ruin everthing.
>> The other, however....
>>
>> I remember connecting an Alesis D4 once (didn't care to check) to an
>> AC/DC adaptor, and it worked. I mean, it lighted up and greeted me,
>> looked like it was working, I could change the parameters and browse the
>> menus, but it didn't respond to the pads or make any sounds. When I
>> connected an AC adaptor, it worked perfectly, so...
>
> Because it takes only + voltage (likely +5V) to run the logic,
> but it takes both + and - to operate the audio parts.

[Laurence Payne]

On 8 Apr 2007 11:13:02 -0700, "Mike Rivers" >
wrote:

>If the circuitry only require a single polarity supply, most of the
>time they use a DC wall wart into a regulator rather than putting the
>rectifier and filter capacitors inside the device. It's cheaper to let
>the wall wart manufacturer, who buys a gazillion rectifiers and
>electronlytic capacitors, do it.

And as the main unit doesn't directly use mains power, it doesn't have
to pass local safety certification. You can buy in a certified
wall-wart, if necessary a different one in each country.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 8 Apr 2007 20:31:37 +0200, "Marcello Mastroiani"
> wrote:

>
>I believe I explaine what I think and I why I think lik that.
>No need to get nervous, as I said, I don't know much about electronics, and
>looking at the sentences written now, I see I wrote what I wrote because of
>a language barrier, the guy wrote:
>
>> If DC is required, AC *IS* wrong polarity :-)
>
>Well, in my language that wouldn't be true. But in english, it is. It's a
>bit hard to explain, but in my language, wrong polarity is ONLY + to - or
>viceversa, not AC when you need DC, that is called wrong current (it is the
>same as applying 110V when you need 220V).

You're digging an even deeper hole now :-) AC instead of DC is the
same as the wrong voltage? What does "The Same" mean in your
language?

Anyway, if DC is required, even by your definition, AC is (half the
time) wrong polarity.

Want to wriggle some more? :-)

[John Lamp]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> The only reason a 10K resistor would have a red stripe is if it was a 2%
> resistor and you were looking at the last (tolerance) band. Remember the
> rule: BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
> Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.

hmmm ... we ended with BUT VIRGINS GO WITHOUT.

Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic - my daughter is a
sound tech, currently at college in a course with an electronics
component, but there's no way I'm telling her that one!

Cheers
Goaty
--
_--_|\ John Lamp - in beautiful downtown Highton
/ \ meanderings. 2200-2400 Wednesday
\_.--._/ on 94.7 the Pulse - Geelong Community Radio
v http://www.myspace.com/meanderings_thepulse

"You know, if the internet was analogue with tubes, this stuff
wouldn't happen." - Sean S

[Chris Hornbeck]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:55:53 +1000, John Lamp >
wrote:

>> BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
>> Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.
>
>hmmm ... we ended with BUT VIRGINS GO WITHOUT.
>
>Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic

North of the M-D line, it went BAD BOYS... (especially
in my family), but my father was red-green colorblind
so I learned color code probably before I could read,
and I don't remember the ending.

Hopefully, things are better these days. Arf.

Thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"Oh, life is a glorious cycle of song,
A medley of extemporanea;
And love is a thing that can never go wrong;
and I am Marie of Roumania."
- Dorothy Parker

[John L Rice]

"Chris Hornbeck" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:55:53 +1000, John Lamp >
> wrote:
>
>>> BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
>>> Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.
>>
>>hmmm ... we ended with BUT VIRGINS GO WITHOUT.
>>
>>Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic
>
> North of the M-D line, it went BAD BOYS... (especially
> in my family), but my father was red-green colorblind
> so I learned color code probably before I could read,
> and I don't remember the ending.
>
> Hopefully, things are better these days. Arf.
>
> Thanks, as always,
>
> Chris Hornbeck

Here's a 'nice' one . . .maybe could use some work . . . . :

Blue Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Become Visible Goodly Well

John L Rice

[John Lamp]

John L Rice wrote:
> "Chris Hornbeck" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:55:53 +1000, John Lamp >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
>>>>Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.
>>>
>>>hmmm ... we ended with BUT VIRGINS GO WITHOUT.
>>>
>>>Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic
>>
>>North of the M-D line, it went BAD BOYS... (especially
>>in my family), but my father was red-green colorblind
>>so I learned color code probably before I could read,
>>and I don't remember the ending.
>>
>>Hopefully, things are better these days. Arf.
>>
>>Thanks, as always,
>>
>>Chris Hornbeck
>
>
> Here's a 'nice' one . . .maybe could use some work . . . . :
>
> Blue Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Become Visible Goodly Well

I'd keep the "black" rather than "blue" - could cause confusion.
The end needs some tightening ... how about

Black Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Before Visiting Garden Walls.

Cheers
Goaty
--
_--_|\ John Lamp - in beautiful downtown Highton
/ \ meanderings. 2200-2400 Wednesday
\_.--._/ on 94.7 the Pulse - Geelong Community Radio
v http://www.myspace.com/meanderings_thepulse

"You know, if the internet was analogue with tubes, this stuff
wouldn't happen." - Sean S

[John L Rice]

"John Lamp" > wrote in message
...
> John L Rice wrote:
>> "Chris Hornbeck" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>On Mon, 09 Apr 2007 10:55:53 +1000, John Lamp >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>BLACK BOYS RAPE OUR YOUNG GIRLS BEHIND VICTORY GARDEN WALLS.
>>>>>Black brown red orange green blue violet grey white.
>>>>
>>>>hmmm ... we ended with BUT VIRGINS GO WITHOUT.
>>>>
>>>>Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic
>>>
>>>North of the M-D line, it went BAD BOYS... (especially
>>>in my family), but my father was red-green colorblind
>>>so I learned color code probably before I could read,
>>>and I don't remember the ending.
>>>
>>>Hopefully, things are better these days. Arf.
>>>
>>>Thanks, as always,
>>>
>>>Chris Hornbeck
>>
>>
>> Here's a 'nice' one . . .maybe could use some work . . . . :
>>
>> Blue Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Become Visible Goodly Well
>
> I'd keep the "black" rather than "blue" - could cause confusion.
> The end needs some tightening ... how about
>
> Black Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Before Visiting Garden Walls.
>
> Cheers
> Goaty

Hey, I like the improvements! I think Roosting would be better as Roost now
though :

Black Birds Roost On Yellow Gates Before Visiting Garden Walls

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 8, 8:55 pm, John Lamp > wrote:

> Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic - my daughter is a
> sound tech, currently at college in a course with an electronics
> component, but there's no way I'm telling her that one!

The first one I learned (I think I was about 12 at the time) was:

Big Boys Rave Over Young Girls But Veto Getting Wed

[Richard Crowley]

"Mike Rivers" wrote ...
> John Lamp wrote:
>> Actually that whole thing needs a better mnemonic - my daughter is a
>> sound tech, currently at college in a course with an electronics
>> component, but there's no way I'm telling her that one!
>
> The first one I learned (I think I was about 12 at the time) was:
>
> Big Boys Rave Over Young Girls But Veto Getting Wed

Bad Boys Ravish Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly

[Carey Carlan]

"John L Rice" > wrote in
:

> "John Lamp" > wrote in message
> ...
>> John L Rice wrote:
>>> "Chris Hornbeck" > wrote in message
>>> ...
<snip>
>>> Here's a 'nice' one . . .maybe could use some work . . . . :
>>>
>>> Blue Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Become Visible Goodly Well
>>
>> I'd keep the "black" rather than "blue" - could cause confusion.
>> The end needs some tightening ... how about
>>
>> Black Birds Roosting On Yellow Gates Before Visiting Garden Walls.
>>
> Hey, I like the improvements! I think Roosting would be better as
> Roost now though :
>
> Black Birds Roost On Yellow Gates Before Visiting Garden Walls

Using colors in context:

Black bears range over yonder green bluffs viewing grey wolves.

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 9, 8:58 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:

> Bad Boys Ravish Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly

I think that's a common military version. I've heard that as "Violet
gives willingly." Close enough.

[Marcello Mastroiani]

What an incredible bunch of poets! :)
What is this, "The dead poets society"? :)

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 9, 8:58 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
>> Bad Boys Ravish Our Young Girls But Violet Goes Willingly
>
> I think that's a common military version. I've heard that as "Violet
> gives willingly." Close enough.
>