Tascam DM-4800 opinions?

[Ben - TheStudioRI.com]

I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 1, 8:02 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
> I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
> essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
> whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
> get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
> sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?

There are some things you might like better, some that you may not
like as well. Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,
so unless good paying clients are banging down your door wanting 96
kHz projects, I'd keep the d8b until the wheels fall off. I wrote a
"preview" (a review without actually having my hands and ears on it)
of the DM-4800 and I thought it was pretty well though out. I don't
know how 48 channels of Firewire actually works out though. I have my
doubts.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Apr 1, 8:02 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
>> I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
>> essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
>> whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
>> get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
>> sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?
>
> There are some things you might like better, some that you may not
> like as well. Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,
> so unless good paying clients are banging down your door wanting 96
> kHz projects, I'd keep the d8b until the wheels fall off. I wrote a
> "preview" (a review without actually having my hands and ears on it)
> of the DM-4800 and I thought it was pretty well though out. I don't
> know how 48 channels of Firewire actually works out though. I have my
> doubts.
>

Doesn't that thing do 24 channels at 96kHz, or is it really 48 channels
at 96kHz? If it's 24 channels at 96kHz and 48 channels at 48kHz, I don't
see it being a problem, unless the drivers suck real bad...

[Romeo Rondeau]

Romeo Rondeau wrote:
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>> On Apr 1, 8:02 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
>>> I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
>>> essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
>>> whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
>>> get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
>>> sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?
>>
>> There are some things you might like better, some that you may not
>> like as well. Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,
>> so unless good paying clients are banging down your door wanting 96
>> kHz projects, I'd keep the d8b until the wheels fall off. I wrote a
>> "preview" (a review without actually having my hands and ears on it)
>> of the DM-4800 and I thought it was pretty well though out. I don't
>> know how 48 channels of Firewire actually works out though. I have my
>> doubts.
>>
>
> Doesn't that thing do 24 channels at 96kHz, or is it really 48 channels
> at 96kHz? If it's 24 channels at 96kHz and 48 channels at 48kHz, I don't
> see it being a problem, unless the drivers suck real bad...

Actually, I just looked at it and the firewire is 32 channels.

[Nate Najar]

On Apr 1, 8:02 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
> I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
> essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
> whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
> get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
> sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?

I have the dm3200 which is almost the same thing minus some control
features and some channels. I don't have the firewire card and have
no use for it in that capacity so i cannot comment. i use it as a
front end for my pro tools mpowered system, with a profire
lightbridge, giving me 16 channels plus a 2 mix in and out of pro
tools. If a project neccesitates mixing ITB, the remote layer works
very well for mixing, or i can bring 16 stems or individual tracks out
of PT and mix on the board itself. The converters sound just fine. I
bought it so that I could make cue mixes off the input and still send
my signal to PT. It was the elegant method, since now I don't need a
patchbay and I can send any input to any track. I don't use the mic
pres- i have millennia and rnp pres that I put into the channel insert
returns, so my external pres are going straight to the converter. At
that point I can send it to PT, cue mixes, or anywhere else it may
need to go. The internal dynamics processing and eq are very useable
and the reverb processor is surprisingly good.

16 channels of control surface for PT is like $1800, and for 3grand I
got a digital mixer to go with it. i figure it will last a few years
and then I'll have to get something else. BUT maybe not, as i can
always use external converters with it, essentially using it as a
patchbay, control room matrix and control surface.

Nate

[Jay Kadis]

In article . com>,
"Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:

> I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
> essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
> whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
> get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
> sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?

We're in the same quandry. Our D8B has been in service 24/7 since 1999
and we have 2 DM3200s in other rooms. Personally I don't like the
Tascam user interface and software as much as the D8B. We use the
DM3200s mainly for live concerts and multichannel playback, so I haven't
done a lot of mixing on the Tascam boards. (I have done some mixes on
the older DM-24s and they didn't quite come up to the D8B.) I don't
think the dynamics processing on the Tascam boards is as good sounding
as the V 5.1 D8B, but I can't be sure as I haven't really done a serious
A/B with the same material.

I am mainly considering the DM4800 because it has enough digital I/O to
handle our setup: ProTools, 3 DA-78/38 and Ardour. I think I might like
the Yamaha DM2000 best, but it's quite a bit more expensive.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x ---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

[Shadow]

Ben,
go for the 4800. I had 2 DM-24's and have now a 3200.
It sounds very good, the preamps and the converters are very good. It's
very flexible, but has a very long learning curve.
In a 2 or 3 year timeframe you will need a new display (lines everywhere)
regards
Shadow

Ben - TheStudioRI.com wrote:
> I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
> essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
> whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
> get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
> sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?
>

[Jay Kadis]

In article >,
Shadow > wrote:

[snip]

> In a 2 or 3 year timeframe you will need a new display (lines everywhere)
> regards
> Shadow
>

Are you having that problem with the DM-3200? The DM-24s are terrible
in that respect but our DM-3200s haven't shown any lines in the year or
so we've had them.

-Jay

--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x ---- Jay's Attic Studio ----x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

[Shadow]

Up until now I don't have any problems with the 3200 (one year old). I
had this problem with both DM-24's after 2-3 years and I was told that
the display is the same in all DM models.
Shadow



Jay Kadis wrote:
> In article >,
> Shadow > wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> In a 2 or 3 year timeframe you will need a new display (lines everywhere)
>> regards
>> Shadow
>>
>
> Are you having that problem with the DM-3200? The DM-24s are terrible
> in that respect but our DM-3200s haven't shown any lines in the year or
> so we've had them.
>
> -Jay
>

[Ben - TheStudioRI.com]

On Apr 1, 8:55 pm, "Mike Rivers" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 8:02 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
>
> > I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
> > essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
> > whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
> > get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
> > sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?
>
> There are some things you might like better, some that you may not
> like as well. Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,
> so unless good paying clients are banging down your door wanting 96
> kHz projects, I'd keep the d8b until the wheels fall off. I wrote a
> "preview" (a review without actually having my hands and ears on it)
> of the DM-4800 and I thought it was pretty well though out. I don't
> know how 48 channels of Firewire actually works out though. I have my
> doubts.

[Ben - TheStudioRI.com]

> Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,


that's the problem, it's not. I can get about $2000 now with no extra
cards. If it's dead, I'll get about $200. That $2000 could go toward
the new board. But, for now, I'm leaning toward keeping it. If only
for another few months. Thanks all for the good advice.

-Ben

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 7, 11:00 am, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
> > Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,

> that's the problem, it's not. I can get about $2000 now with no extra
> cards. If it's dead, I'll get about $200.

Oh, maybe you're one of those ripoff console strippers selling empty
d8bs to unsuspecting new owners. Sadly there are several of those
folks who are stripping out the audio I/O cards, DSP cards (even the
one MFX card that the console shipped with shortly after the card was
released), and the clock I/O card if there's one (one poor fellow
recently reported on the Mackie forum that he bought a d8b that didn't
work and there was no clock card at all in it - the seller had removed
the optional Apogee clock I/O card and hadn't replaced it with the
stock clock card.

Analog and AES/EBU I/O cards are going for between $100 and $300, TDIF/
ADAT cards are going for $100, ADAT cards are going for $75 (they can
still be had new for $100) and clock I/O cards are going for over
$400. The CPU box can bring $500, and the cables between the CPU
and console can get pretty expensive, too. A functional d8b seems to
be going for $2000-$2500, but anyone would be stupid to buy one for
$2000 with no cards, and even for $200 with known problems unless they
had another one and were going to use it for parts. Unfortunately
there are too many people who don't really know how a d8s is
constructed or sold and don't find out what they don't have until they
get it.

But these days, it's easier to sell individual cards than it is to
sell the whole console, so people who just want to get some quick cash
out of it sell the cards first, and then offer up the hulk for
whatever they can get for it (the honest ones, anyway). So, yeah, if
you're counting pennies, you'll get a bit more for a whole console
working and ready to go (and make the new owner happy) than if you
sell the pieces and scrap the work surface. But you can probably sell
the pieces quicker.

[Ben - TheStudioRI.com]

On Apr 7, 12:13 pm, "Mike Rivers" > wrote:
> On Apr 7, 11:00 am, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
>
> > > Your d8b is probably worth about the same dead or alive,
> > that's the problem, it's not. I can get about $2000 now with no extra
> > cards. If it's dead, I'll get about $200.
>
> Oh, maybe you're one of those ripoff console strippers selling empty
> d8bs to unsuspecting new owners. Sadly there are several of those
> folks who are stripping out the audio I/O cards, DSP cards (even the
> one MFX card that the console shipped with shortly after the card was
> released), and the clock I/O card if there's one (one poor fellow
> recently reported on the Mackie forum that he bought a d8b that didn't
> work and there was no clock card at all in it - the seller had removed
> the optional Apogee clock I/O card and hadn't replaced it with the
> stock clock card.
>
> Analog and AES/EBU I/O cards are going for between $100 and $300, TDIF/
> ADAT cards are going for $100, ADAT cards are going for $75 (they can
> still be had new for $100) and clock I/O cards are going for over
> $400. The CPU box can bring $500, and the cables between the CPU
> and console can get pretty expensive, too. A functional d8b seems to
> be going for $2000-$2500, but anyone would be stupid to buy one for
> $2000 with no cards, and even for $200 with known problems unless they
> had another one and were going to use it for parts. Unfortunately
> there are too many people who don't really know how a d8s is
> constructed or sold and don't find out what they don't have until they
> get it.
>
> But these days, it's easier to sell individual cards than it is to
> sell the whole console, so people who just want to get some quick cash
> out of it sell the cards first, and then offer up the hulk for
> whatever they can get for it (the honest ones, anyway). So, yeah, if
> you're counting pennies, you'll get a bit more for a whole console
> working and ready to go (and make the new owner happy) than if you
> sell the pieces and scrap the work surface. But you can probably sell
> the pieces quicker.

thanks for talking so much, yet saying so little.

[Mike Rivers]

On Apr 9, 6:15 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:

> thanks for talking so much, yet saying so little.

Thanks for reading. Good luck getting $2,000 for a d8b shell. But then
there's a sucker born every minute. Maybe you'll get lucky. Oh, and
good luck with the DM-4800, too. One of my favorite fortune cookies (I
have it taped to a monitor) reads: "Progress is trading old problems
for new."

Call us when you get your next Grammy.

[hank alrich]

Ben - TheStudioRI.com wrote:

> thanks for talking so much, yet saying so little.

Does your "studio" really have only one mic? Do a lot of VO work?

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Ben - TheStudioRI.com]

On Apr 9, 7:15 pm, "Mike Rivers" > wrote:
> On Apr 9, 6:15 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
>
> > thanks for talking so much, yet saying so little.
>
> Thanks for reading. Good luck getting $2,000 for a d8b shell. But then
> there's a sucker born every minute. Maybe you'll get lucky. Oh, and
> good luck with the DM-4800, too. One of my favorite fortune cookies (I
> have it taped to a monitor) reads: "Progress is trading old problems
> for new."
>
> Call us when you get your next Grammy.

dude, you just seem to have to criticize everyone on this board. take
30 seconds to check ebay and you'll know that all your figures are
off... $2000 for a d8b with the internal clock card and maybe an MFX
card? absolutely. BUT the point was that the board is still working
perfectly... what you don't know is that 1) I've bought and sold about
4 d8b's for other people in the past year or so, and 2) I just spent
$1200 fixing mine! Now, I can sell it before the DSP board goes again
(typical problem), or I can consider an alternative.... sorry, if we
can't all shell out $5000 cash for a new board like you can.

Just for the record, I asked for an opinion on the alternative, not an
analysis of "how to sell an d8b 101".

[Ben - TheStudioRI.com]

On Apr 9, 11:48 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
> Ben - TheStudioRI.com wrote:
> > thanks for talking so much, yet saying so little.
>
> Does your "studio" really have only one mic? Do a lot of VO work?
>
> --
> ha
> Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

one mic?

[WillStG]

On Apr 1, 10:11 pm, "Nate Najar" > wrote:
> On Apr 1, 8:02 pm, "Ben - TheStudioRI.com" > wrote:
>
> > I've been thinking of trading in my d8b for the DM-4800. It would
> > essentially be a direct replacement, but with a few more bells and
> > whistles, firewire and higher res... I love my board, but the d8b's
> > get tired over time. If I'm going to upgrade, I'm going to have to
> > sell this one while It's running solid. any thoughts?
>
> I have the dm3200 which is almost the same thing minus some control
> features and some channels. I don't have the firewire card and have
> no use for it in that capacity so i cannot comment. i use it as a
> front end for my pro tools mpowered system, with a profire
> lightbridge, giving me 16 channels plus a 2 mix in and out of pro
> tools. If a project neccesitates mixing ITB, the remote layer works
> very well for mixing, or i can bring 16 stems or individual tracks out
> of PT and mix on the board itself. The converters sound just fine. I
> bought it so that I could make cue mixes off the input and still send
> my signal to PT. It was the elegant method, since now I don't need a
> patchbay and I can send any input to any track. I don't use the mic
> pres- i have millennia and rnp pres that I put into the channel insert
> returns, so my external pres are going straight to the converter. At
> that point I can send it to PT, cue mixes, or anywhere else it may
> need to go. The internal dynamics processing and eq are very useable
> and the reverb processor is surprisingly good.
>
> 16 channels of control surface for PT is like $1800, and for 3grand I
> got a digital mixer to go with it. i figure it will last a few years
> and then I'll have to get something else. BUT maybe not, as i can
> always use external converters with it, essentially using it as a
> patchbay, control room matrix and control surface.
>
> Nate

I have a DM24 with a firewire card. I like it, but have no used
the newer DM4800. But it seems, om paper at least, to incorporate most
of what my console is lacking, like it can give you 24 control faders
simultaneously in Protools (or most anything DAW), no bank shifting
required, which is something an old school kind of mixer like me finds
attractive. Also does 32 channels @96k over a firewire cable (having
dumped Sanewave as firewire card developers), can handle 64 inputs on
mixdown, 24 micpres and busses, 12! Aux sends, nice internal
automation, 3 stereo pairs of monitor outs (large/small/studio), 4
expansion slots for surround etc, cascading options and more...

I expect a console with that facility should really keep you busy
for some time to come, and I think it's one of the most affordable
options for what you get, that's out there. When I sell off enough
stuff (and if I can keep solvent of course), I think I might buy into
one after the "how much does it cost to be a beta tester?" period of
it's life has passed....

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits