Bit-splitter for PCM800

[Sune TB Nielsen]

Hi

I just bought a very cheap Sony PCM800. Now I wonder if there exists a
bit-splitter that runs AES so that I can record more than 16bit.

If there are old ones around that can be bought cheaply used, it would
make me happy.

Another question is what to do if I want to use the digital out? I did
not manage to find a cable anywhere. A should be 25-pin D-sub (female)
to 4x XLR.

Best regards
Sune TB Nielsen

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 25, 7:55 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:

> I just bought a very cheap Sony PCM800. Now I wonder if there exists a
> bit-splitter that runs AES so that I can record more than 16bit.

Well, I know people who were using a Yamaha 02R with those recorders.
Later revisions of the software had a bit-splitting option. I haven't
seen a Rane Paqrat for years, but I have the T-shirt.

[Sune TB Nielsen]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Mar 25, 7:55 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>

> Later revisions of the software had a bit-splitting option.

WOW that sounds great!
It is updated to 2.01, but but in Sonys store you can buy 2.0 as the
newest, so maybe Sony are not quite up to date..

But I don't have a clue on how to activate that.

In fact i have been googling a lot lately, but its hard to find detailed
information on this device.

[Sune TB Nielsen]

Sune TB Nielsen wrote:
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>> On Mar 25, 7:55 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>>
>
>> Later revisions of the software had a bit-splitting option.
>
> WOW that sounds great!
> It is updated to 2.01, but but in Sonys store you can buy 2.0 as the
> newest, so maybe Sony are not quite up to date..
>
> But I don't have a clue on how to activate that.
>
> In fact i have been googling a lot lately, but its hard to find detailed
> information on this device.
>

I have found two sites that indicate that 2.01 is the latest upgrade.
But i cannot find information on different upgrades.
Anyone here who remembers or happen to have documentation lying around
still on how to use it?

I am especially interested in using the bit-splitting option.

PS i found a really useful guide to mdms at http://www.silentway.com/88.html

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 25, 9:37 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
> Mike Rivers wrote:
> > On Mar 25, 7:55 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>
> > Later revisions of the software had a bit-splitting option.
>
> WOW that sounds great!
> It is updated to 2.01, but but in Sonys store you can buy 2.0 as the
> newest, so maybe Sony are not quite up to date..

I was talking about later revisions of the Yamaha 02R mixer, not the
Sony PCM800.

The way a bit-splitter works is that the audio input channel is split
into two tracks, one of which has the first 16 bits (you can actually
listen to that with normal playback) and the the other has the last 4
or 8 bits (depending on whether it's a 20- or 24-bit processor). You
record those two tracks, so you only have 4 tracks of high resolution
audio available on an 8-track recorder. The most common use for this
process was to use the recorder for mixdown.

[Sune TB Nielsen]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> On Mar 25, 9:37 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>> Mike Rivers wrote:
>>> On Mar 25, 7:55 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>>> Later revisions of the software had a bit-splitting option.
>> WOW that sounds great!
>> It is updated to 2.01, but but in Sonys store you can buy 2.0 as the
>> newest, so maybe Sony are not quite up to date..
>
> I was talking about later revisions of the Yamaha 02R mixer, not the
> Sony PCM800.
>
> The way a bit-splitter works is that the audio input channel is split
> into two tracks, one of which has the first 16 bits (you can actually
> listen to that with normal playback) and the the other has the last 4
> or 8 bits (depending on whether it's a 20- or 24-bit processor). You
> record those two tracks, so you only have 4 tracks of high resolution
> audio available on an 8-track recorder. The most common use for this
> process was to use the recorder for mixdown.
>
>

OK, thanks!

Anyone who has an idea what Rane Paqrat is worth these days? I cant see
any on ebay.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 26, 11:15 am, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
> Anyone who has an idea what Rane Paqrat is worth these days? I cant see
> any on ebay.

Well, that's a pretty good indication of your chances of getting one.
(or not).

Given that it's a pretty outdated concept, the only people really
interested in having one, aside from you, are those who still have
tapes recorded in this format that they haven't transferred to a
modern 24-bit format yet. Or those who specialize in rescuing old
recordings from obsolescence.

By the way, the Paqrat was made in both an ADAT and a DTRS model, so
not only do you need to find one, it has to have the correct digital
output and input connections.

I'd seriously suggest that you enjoy your PCM-800 for what it is (a 16-
bit, 8 channel digital recorder) and use something more modern and
more standard for higher resolution recording. While I haven't made a
comparision (and I doubt anyone else has, either) I'd be willing to
bet that any of the garden variety M-Audio, Echo, or Presonus 8-
channel computer interfaces coupled with a modest computer will give
you better sounding audio than a Paqrat. You're talking about nearly
20 year old technology there.

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>
>By the way, the Paqrat was made in both an ADAT and a DTRS model, so
>not only do you need to find one, it has to have the correct digital
>output and input connections.

I believe the Prism AD-124 is still available from Prism although not
a production item, and it has a built-in bit splitter which is compatible
with the Paqrat format.

I think Sony Professional also made such a thing.

Note that these devices both cost considerably more than a 24-bit recorder
would cost today.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Sune TB Nielsen]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
>> By the way, the Paqrat was made in both an ADAT and a DTRS model, so
>> not only do you need to find one, it has to have the correct digital
>> output and input connections.
>
> I believe the Prism AD-124 is still available from Prism although not
> a production item, and it has a built-in bit splitter which is compatible
> with the Paqrat format.
>
> I think Sony Professional also made such a thing.
>
> Note that these devices both cost considerably more than a 24-bit recorder
> would cost today.
> --scott
>

Yes, I guess youre right both of you. Its just that I need a
multitracker for concerts that I can carry on my bicycle and I got this
one for 20 EURO. Thats around the same price as a new tape with
shipping! So I thought if I could improve it a bit with some other more
or less outdated gear for cheap it would be nice. But its still nice and
Im curious to hear what it can do..


Thanks for your advices

Sune

[Allen Corneau]

On 3/26/07 10:15 AM, in article
, "Sune TB Nielsen"
> wrote:

>
> Anyone who has an idea what Rane Paqrat is worth these days? I cant see
> any on ebay.
>

I think I still have a Paqrat tucked away somewhere and I 95% sure it's the
DTRS version. If I can dig it out I'll sell it to you cheap!

Send me a personal email: Allen [at] esmastering [dot] com.


Allen
--
Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>
>Yes, I guess youre right both of you. Its just that I need a
>multitracker for concerts that I can carry on my bicycle and I got this
>one for 20 EURO. Thats around the same price as a new tape with
>shipping! So I thought if I could improve it a bit with some other more
>or less outdated gear for cheap it would be nice. But its still nice and
>Im curious to hear what it can do..

Once you add the bit splitter, it won't be a multitracker at all, but
a 2-track recorder. That's the whole point of the bit splitter.

Note also that if you are going to carry this thing on a bike, you
really want a shockmount on it. These things do not take well to being
jostled and jerked around and require regular alignment when used in the
field.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 26, 12:01 pm, Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:

> I need a
> multitracker for concerts that I can carry on my bicycle and I got this
> one for 20 EURO.

You must be a serious cyclist to want to carry that recorder plus
another unit plus cables on your bicycle.

Honestly, there's absolutely no reason that you should be concerned
about recording a concert in 16-bit resolution. I seriously doubt
you'd notice any improvement whatsoever with a Paqrat. Maybe the Prism
converter that Scott mentioned would give a little improvement if it
was a concert with a lot of quite material, but it certainly will cost
you more than 20 Euro.

[DC]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> Well, I know people who were using a Yamaha 02R with those recorders.
> Later revisions of the software had a bit-splitting option. I haven't
> seen a Rane Paqrat for years, but I have the T-shirt.

I have one of those, too. The shirt, that is.

[Allen Corneau]

On 3/26/07 12:06 PM, in article , "Scott
Dorsey" > wrote:

>
> Once you add the bit splitter, it won't be a multitracker at all, but
> a 2-track recorder. That's the whole point of the bit splitter.


Actually Scott, the Prism bit-splitter would do dual-wire 24/96, 4 track
24-bit, or 6 track 20-bit. Of course you needed external ADC's as well.

http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/mr2024op.pdf


Allen
--
Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

[Sune TB Nielsen]

Allen Corneau wrote:
> On 3/26/07 12:06 PM, in article , "Scott
> Dorsey" > wrote:
>
>> Once you add the bit splitter, it won't be a multitracker at all, but
>> a 2-track recorder. That's the whole point of the bit splitter.
>
>
> Actually Scott, the Prism bit-splitter would do dual-wire 24/96, 4 track
> 24-bit, or 6 track 20-bit. Of course you needed external ADC's as well.
>
> http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/mr2024op.pdf
>
>
> Allen

So if I understand it correctly:
In order to use the pca800 as four-track recorder I would need a Prism
and four ADC?
While with the Paqrat I only get two IO?

I know it begins to sound really crazy to bicycle with all that gear,
but could two Paqrats do the job? (With some modded cable maybe)

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>Allen Corneau wrote:
>> On 3/26/07 12:06 PM, in article , "Scott
>> Dorsey" > wrote:
>>
>>> Once you add the bit splitter, it won't be a multitracker at all, but
>>> a 2-track recorder. That's the whole point of the bit splitter.
>>
>>
>> Actually Scott, the Prism bit-splitter would do dual-wire 24/96, 4 track
>> 24-bit, or 6 track 20-bit. Of course you needed external ADC's as well.
>>
>> http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/mr2024op.pdf
>
>So if I understand it correctly:
>In order to use the pca800 as four-track recorder I would need a Prism
>and four ADC?
>While with the Paqrat I only get two IO?
>
>I know it begins to sound really crazy to bicycle with all that gear,
>but could two Paqrats do the job? (With some modded cable maybe)
>
>
>
>


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Allen Corneau]

On 3/26/07 2:04 PM, in article
, "Sune TB Nielsen"
> wrote:


> So if I understand it correctly:
> In order to use the pca800 as four-track recorder I would need a Prism
> and four ADC?
> While with the Paqrat I only get two IO?

Basically, but most ADC's are stereo, so you would need 2 stereo ADC's.


> I know it begins to sound really crazy to bicycle with all that gear,
> but could two Paqrats do the job? (With some modded cable maybe)

No, you can only hook up one bit-splitter to a DTRS unit. You'd have to do
some fancy modifications to make it work.


Allen
--
Allen Corneau
Mastering Engineer
Essential Sound Mastering
www.esmastering.com

[Scott Dorsey]

Allen Corneau > wrote:
>On 3/26/07 2:04 PM, in article
, "Sune TB Nielsen"
> wrote:
>
>> So if I understand it correctly:
>> In order to use the pca800 as four-track recorder I would need a Prism
>> and four ADC?
>> While with the Paqrat I only get two IO?
>
>Basically, but most ADC's are stereo, so you would need 2 stereo ADC's.

Right. And I know some ADCs that have built-in bit splitters (like
the Prism AD-124 I mentioned earlier), but I had never seen the standalone
Prism 4-channel box. That's cute.

>> I know it begins to sound really crazy to bicycle with all that gear,
>> but could two Paqrats do the job? (With some modded cable maybe)
>
>No, you can only hook up one bit-splitter to a DTRS unit. You'd have to do
>some fancy modifications to make it work.

Bit-splitting is... well... it's not very elegant, but it's what people
had to do to get wide words back then. Today we have converters that
are good enough that it's much less of an issue.

If I were you, I'd be more apt to throw an RME ADI-8 in front of it.
Better converters with 16-bit storage will buy you more than cheaper
converters with 24-bit storage.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Sune TB Nielsen]

hank alrich wrote:
> Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:
>
>> Allen Corneau wrote:
>>> On 3/26/07 12:06 PM, in article , "Scott
>>> Dorsey" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once you add the bit splitter, it won't be a multitracker at all, but
>>>> a 2-track recorder. That's the whole point of the bit splitter.
>>>
>>> Actually Scott, the Prism bit-splitter would do dual-wire 24/96, 4 track
>>> 24-bit, or 6 track 20-bit. Of course you needed external ADC's as well.
>>>
>>> http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/mr2024op.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Allen
>> So if I understand it correctly:
>> In order to use the pca800 as four-track recorder I would need a Prism
>> and four ADC?
>> While with the Paqrat I only get two IO?
>>
>> I know it begins to sound really crazy to bicycle with all that gear,
>> but could two Paqrats do the job? (With some modded cable maybe)
>
> Price the Prisms and then reconsider.
>

Yes, doesnt seem expensive:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180081541770

[hank alrich]

Sune TB Nielsen > wrote:

> Allen Corneau wrote:
> > On 3/26/07 12:06 PM, in article , "Scott
> > Dorsey" > wrote:
> >
> >> Once you add the bit splitter, it won't be a multitracker at all, but
> >> a 2-track recorder. That's the whole point of the bit splitter.
> >
> >
> > Actually Scott, the Prism bit-splitter would do dual-wire 24/96, 4 track
> > 24-bit, or 6 track 20-bit. Of course you needed external ADC's as well.
> >
> > http://www.prismsound.com/m_r_downloads/mr2024op.pdf
> >
> >
> > Allen
>
> So if I understand it correctly:
> In order to use the pca800 as four-track recorder I would need a Prism
> and four ADC?
> While with the Paqrat I only get two IO?
>
> I know it begins to sound really crazy to bicycle with all that gear,
> but could two Paqrats do the job? (With some modded cable maybe)

Price the Prisms and then reconsider.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam