vista on laptop

[Laurence Payne]

The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.

Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
underlying audio functionality?

(It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
just want to rant against Microsoft :-)

[Marc Heusser]

In article >,
Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:

> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>
> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
> underlying audio functionality?
>
> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.ms
px

or if you want to upgrade even further:
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/ -
you get the one and only full Mac OS X, and if you cannot avoid it, it
will run Vista too.

HTH

Marc

--
Switzerland/Europe
<http://www.heusser.com>
remove CHEERS and from MERCIAL to get valid e-mail

[Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
snip
> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
I'll let you know tomorrow, I just set-up Audacity on my wife's
laptop
to record the church choir practices. It took a bit of web searching
to find the audio recording configuration window for Vista.
It's in the control panel window, not on the toolbar icon.
The laptop has a dual function 3.5 jack for line/mic.
It did sense the insertion of the plug and inquired whether it
was mic or line signal. It saw the signal from my mp3 player
when I set up a record track in Audacity, so I'm hoping
for the best tonight, basic stereo pair into a mic pre and
straight into the laptop. KISS methodology. She just wants
an archive to review what needs more work.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>
> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
> underlying audio functionality?
>
> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)

This might be some help...

http://rainrecording.co.uk/vista/performance

[Richard Crowley]

"Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion" wrote ...
> The laptop has a dual function 3.5 jack for line/mic.

What make/model is it?

Laptops with stereo audio INputs (whether mic or line)
seem pretty rare.

[Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion]

On Mar 23, 8:28 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion" wrote ...
>
> > The laptop has a dual function 3.5 jack for line/mic.
>
> What make/model is it?
>
> Laptops with stereo audio INputs (whether mic or line)
> seem pretty rare.

Dell Inspiron E1505, Intel T5200 2GB 533Mhz,
120GB HD, Integrated HD Audio.
I was surprised at the method they used
to get audio in. At least it doesn't need
a USB mic pre for basic recording (-:
She is getting a MBA through online classes
and recording wasn't on the needs list
when we configured it, so I'm happy it
could find the signal. It may record with
too high of a reality factor and totally
demoralize the ensemble. The unforseen
danger of applied technology.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 23, 7:28 am, Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom>
wrote:
> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
> Ultimate. T

What's the Vista definition of "Offline Files?" My definition is a
copy of a file on some removable media (that I've copied and removed
from the computer). Surely the lower level versions of Vista don't
preclude you from copying a file to a CD, DVD, flash memory drive, or
even a floppy disk? If so, that's scarier than I thought.

Must be some kind of networking limitation to keep beginners from
messing up their computer from another computer.

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message ...
> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>
> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
> underlying audio functionality?
>
> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)


It's a completely ****ed OS. I hope you didn't "upgrade"... that's the only way
your hardware will be guaranteed function. I wish you luck and will be looking
for your progress reports.

Subscribe to these two groups and read for a couple of weeks....

microsoft.public.windows.vista.general (700 daily posts - 400 of them horror stories)

microsoft.public.windows.vista.installation_setup (300 daily posts - 200 of them horror stories).

VISTA is not ready for prime time usage... the US Government refuses to use it
and hardware and software manufacturers are not ready for it.... even Microsoft
isn't ready for it (see their "returns and refunds" page on the web site). No major
service packs to correct the thousands of glitches are in the works.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:23:39 GMT, Romeo Rondeau >
wrote:

>> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
>> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
>> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
>> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>>
>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>> underlying audio functionality?
>>
>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
>
>This might be some help...
>
>http://rainrecording.co.uk/vista/performance

Very interesting, but it doesn't address my actual question :-)

[Laurence Payne]

On 23 Mar 2007 08:37:26 -0700, "Mike Rivers" >
wrote:

>> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
>> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
>> Ultimate. T
>
>What's the Vista definition of "Offline Files?" My definition is a
>copy of a file on some removable media (that I've copied and removed
>from the computer). Surely the lower level versions of Vista don't
>preclude you from copying a file to a CD, DVD, flash memory drive, or
>even a floppy disk? If so, that's scarier than I thought.
>
>Must be some kind of networking limitation to keep beginners from
>messing up their computer from another computer.

No, Mike. It's a specific name for a specific function. Available
in XP Professional and some Vista versions. Rather like the
Briefcase, but better.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:44:13 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
/Odm> wrote:

>> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
>> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
>> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
>> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>>
>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>> underlying audio functionality?
>>
>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
>
>
>It's a completely ****ed OS. I hope you didn't "upgrade"... that's the only way
>your hardware will be guaranteed function. I wish you luck and will be looking
>for your progress reports.

Now, David, I DID ask nicely if we could hold the rants just for once
:-)

[Preben Friis]

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
...

> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
> underlying audio functionality?

The short answer: No.

/Preben Friis

[Scott Dorsey]

Preben Friis > wrote:
>"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
>
>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>> underlying audio functionality?
>
>The short answer: No.

I believe that is the primary problem with Vista: it does not lack any
functionality.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Preben Friis]

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote in message
et...
> Laurence Payne wrote:

>>>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>>>> underlying audio functionality?

>>> This might be some help...
>>>
>>> http://rainrecording.co.uk/vista/performance
>>
>> Very interesting, but it doesn't address my actual question :-)
>
> It doesn't? They tested the same software on many platforms (so they
> obviously work), and as a bonus there are benchmarks.

Romeo, you missed the "Business" part of the question....

The thing that is missing from the "Business" edition is the Windows Media
Center Programs - the underlying audio functionality is the same as in the
other Vista editions.

And yes... interesting link. Thanks.

/Preben Friis

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote in message . net...
> Laurence Payne wrote:
> > On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:44:13 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> > /Odm> wrote:
> >
> >>> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
> >>> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
> >>> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
> >>> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
> >>>
> >>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
> >>> underlying audio functionality?
> >>>
> >>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
> >>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)

> >>> >> It's a completely ****ed OS. I hope you didn't "upgrade"... that's the only way
> >> your hardware will be guaranteed function. I wish you luck and will be looking
> >> for your progress reports.

> > Now, David, I DID ask nicely if we could hold the rants just for once
> > :-)

I'm not ranting against MS.... I'm one helluva' fan. 3 PCs with 98SE, 3 laptops with
XP Pro, two PCs with XP Home, and one with Win-2K. It's only been the past year
that I've decided to update so many boxes with XP, and it isn't anywhere near the
nightmare it was 4 and 5 years ago... for the most part, I love it. I've put it into
a dozen people's 98 boxes last year and just put it on the church sound booth PC
as well.... but it's NOT VISTA.

I bought VISTA Home basic, and had to completely reformat and telephone authorize
my old XP Home install because it screwed it up so badly... there was no way to
return the system to XP without doing so, as it wipes out your XP license. I don't
know why I took the chance... except for the fact that I didn't want to keep hearing
from the likes of Romeo for my preference in waiting until an OS is proven before
committing to it. I was still on a 95B OSR-2 box when he was anticipating XP. ;-)
(Well... practically).

Microsoft is even offering to refund your shipping costs to return VISTA for
a full refund on their web site, and the authorization folks are working some
serious overtime doing re-authorizations for XP.

> I figured he just cut and pasted from the XP , Windows ME, 98 and 95
> software releases :-)

ME *was* the perfect nightmare -- less than 6 months on retail shelves (a little
longer in OEM assembled boxes)... that is, UNTIL the coming of VISTA. Who
knows what's in store here.... but if you doubt my questioning, just subscribe to
those groups for a few weeks and you will wonder why they bothered releasing
it at all. There aren't just quirks here, there are major screw-ups... especially with
DRM, driver availability, and the blocking of certain software.

Just as I did with XP.... I'll recommend a long proving period for Vista, unless you
go brand new, all the way. Reminds me of the Apple/Mac's 'never-ending' upgrade
path for both hdwr and sftwr.


DM

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:58:09 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
wrote:

>>>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>>>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
>>> This might be some help...
>>>
>>> http://rainrecording.co.uk/vista/performance
>>
>> Very interesting, but it doesn't address my actual question :-)
>
>It doesn't? They tested the same software on many platforms (so they
>obviously work), and as a bonus there are benchmarks.

Maybe my question should have been clearer. I'm interested in
differences between the different versions of Vista. The site
mentioned addresses other issues.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:23:39 GMT, Romeo Rondeau >
> wrote:
>
>>> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
>>> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
>>> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
>>> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>>>
>>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>>> underlying audio functionality?
>>>
>>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
>> This might be some help...
>>
>> http://rainrecording.co.uk/vista/performance
>
> Very interesting, but it doesn't address my actual question :-)

It doesn't? They tested the same software on many platforms (so they
obviously work), and as a bonus there are benchmarks.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:44:13 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
> /Odm> wrote:
>
>>> The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
>>> I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
>>> Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
>>> be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>>>
>>> Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>>> underlying audio functionality?
>>>
>>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
>>
>> It's a completely ****ed OS. I hope you didn't "upgrade"... that's the only way
>> your hardware will be guaranteed function. I wish you luck and will be looking
>> for your progress reports.
>
> Now, David, I DID ask nicely if we could hold the rants just for once
> :-)

I figured he just cut and pasted from the XP , Windows ME, 98 and 95
software releases :-)

[Preben Friis]

"Scott Dorsey" > posted from a shell account:

> I believe that is the primary problem with Vista: it does not lack any
> functionality.

Good one. I guess you are also annoyed that your car came with a radio....
:)

/Preben Friis

[Mike Rivers]

Let's see how quickly we can change this into a completely different
thread.

> "Scott Dorsey" > posted from a shell account:
> > I believe that is the primary problem with Vista: it does not lack any
> > functionality.

On Mar 23, 5:08 pm, "Preben Friis" > wrote:
> Good one. I guess you are also annoyed that your car came with a radio....
> :)

Well, if my car came without a radio but with a reasonable way to
install one, I'd like to have my choice of audio systems. I suspect
that Scott would, too. But the way they build cars nowadays, anything
other than a factory installation is very expensive because it's
difficult to do.

My previous car didn't have a CD player. I looked into adding one but
the shop told me that there just was no way to connect one other than
to install one of those multi-disk players that lives in the trunk and
gets the audio into the radio by modulating a transmitter inserted
into the antenna lead. I was going to do that, but there was no
sensible place to mount the remote control for the player.

[Scott Dorsey]

Preben Friis > wrote:
>"Scott Dorsey" > posted from a shell account:
>
>> I believe that is the primary problem with Vista: it does not lack any
>> functionality.
>
>Good one. I guess you are also annoyed that your car came with a radio....

My car DIDN'T come with a radio! Or air conditioning for that matter.
But tell BMW today that you want a car with crank-up windows and no
power steering assist and they laugh at you. Mercedes doesn't even want
to sell you a standard transmission.... we are in a world where feeping
creaturitis is destroying everything.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Preben Friis]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Let's see how quickly we can change this into a completely different
> thread.

I'll play ...

>> "Scott Dorsey" > posted from a shell account:
>> > I believe that is the primary problem with Vista: it does not lack any
>> > functionality.

> My previous car didn't have a CD player. I looked into adding one but
> the shop told me that there just was no way to connect one other than
> to install one of those multi-disk players that lives in the trunk and
> gets the audio into the radio by modulating a transmitter inserted
> into the antenna lead. I was going to do that, but there was no
> sensible place to mount the remote control for the player.

So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually the
opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it does not
lack any functionality is, that there are next to no limitations for what
you can add. This of cause makes it very complex and bulky, but then again
if you want lightweight you stick with a 16 MHz machine running an OS from
the seventies - but then you do not expect that you can use it for playing
CD's. :)

/Preben Friis

[Scott Dorsey]

Romeo Rondeau > wrote:
>> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually the
>> opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it does not
>> lack any functionality is, that there are next to no limitations for what
>> you can add. This of cause makes it very complex and bulky, but then again
>> if you want lightweight you stick with a 16 MHz machine running an OS from
>> the seventies - but then you do not expect that you can use it for playing
>> CD's. :)
>
>There's always Linux *smirk*

I'm using it here for lots of things, but the real issues with Linux center
around the documentation being very poor and inconsistent. If I want a
piece of software for a Solaris machine or want to know something about
a Solaris utility, there is a very clear path to go to the manuals, and
I know I can install a package compiled for an older version and it will
probably be fine on a newer version. This is sadly not the case for Linux.

Most of the major Linux distributions, also, are now suffering from the
feeping creaturitis that drives me up the wall with Windows. Everything
and the kitchen sink comes with typical distributions, most of which is
turned on and needs to be actively disabled to save CPU.

And don't even get me talking about Mac OS X, which is mostly a good thing,
mostly well-documented, and very consistent, but which doesn't have package
management. Most Unix systems have had package management since the early
nineties, and it makes it FAR easier to install and deinstall things.

I'm sticking with the 4.2 BSD box for a little while longer...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Romeo Rondeau]

> I bought VISTA Home basic, and had to completely reformat and telephone authorize
> my old XP Home install because it screwed it up so badly... there was no way to
> return the system to XP without doing so, as it wipes out your XP license. I don't
> know why I took the chance... except for the fact that I didn't want to keep hearing
> from the likes of Romeo for my preference in waiting until an OS is proven before
> committing to it. I was still on a 95B OSR-2 box when he was anticipating XP. ;-)
> (Well... practically).

You obviously haven't been reading my posts concerning Vista. :-)

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 13:58:09 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
> wrote:
>
>>>>> (It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>>>>> just want to rant against Microsoft :-)
>>>> This might be some help...
>>>>
>>>> http://rainrecording.co.uk/vista/performance
>>> Very interesting, but it doesn't address my actual question :-)
>> It doesn't? They tested the same software on many platforms (so they
>> obviously work), and as a bonus there are benchmarks.
>
> Maybe my question should have been clearer. I'm interested in
> differences between the different versions of Vista. The site
> mentioned addresses other issues.

Ahh... My bad :-)

[Romeo Rondeau]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Preben Friis > wrote:
>> "Scott Dorsey" > posted from a shell account:
>>
>>> I believe that is the primary problem with Vista: it does not lack any
>>> functionality.
>> Good one. I guess you are also annoyed that your car came with a radio....
>
> My car DIDN'T come with a radio! Or air conditioning for that matter.
> But tell BMW today that you want a car with crank-up windows and no
> power steering assist and they laugh at you. Mercedes doesn't even want
> to sell you a standard transmission.... we are in a world where feeping
> creaturitis is destroying everything.

You missed your calling, Scott... you should write country songs :-)
Actually, I must agree here... damn, I'm getting old...

[Romeo Rondeau]

> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually the
> opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it does not
> lack any functionality is, that there are next to no limitations for what
> you can add. This of cause makes it very complex and bulky, but then again
> if you want lightweight you stick with a 16 MHz machine running an OS from
> the seventies - but then you do not expect that you can use it for playing
> CD's. :)

There's always Linux *smirk*

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 20:49:34 +0100, "Preben Friis"
> wrote:

>The thing that is missing from the "Business" edition is the Windows Media
>Center Programs - the underlying audio functionality is the same as in the
>other Vista editions.

That's good to hear. Serious users would of course install specialist
programs making the Media Centre stuff irrelevant.

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 19:50:48 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
/Odm> wrote:

>ME *was* the perfect nightmare -- less than 6 months on retail shelves (a little
>longer in OEM assembled boxes)... that is, UNTIL the coming of VISTA. Who
>knows what's in store here.... but if you doubt my questioning, just subscribe to
>those groups for a few weeks and you will wonder why they bothered releasing
>it at all. There aren't just quirks here, there are major screw-ups... especially with
>DRM, driver availability, and the blocking of certain software.

OK. Well, in a week or two I'll be able to confirm, or otherwise.

[Randy Yates]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

> Romeo Rondeau > wrote:
>>> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually the
>>> opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it does not
>>> lack any functionality is, that there are next to no limitations for what
>>> you can add. This of cause makes it very complex and bulky, but then again
>>> if you want lightweight you stick with a 16 MHz machine running an OS from
>>> the seventies - but then you do not expect that you can use it for playing
>>> CD's. :)
>>
>>There's always Linux *smirk*
>
> I'm using it here for lots of things, but the real issues with Linux center
> around the documentation being very poor and inconsistent. If I want a
> piece of software for a Solaris machine or want to know something about
> a Solaris utility, there is a very clear path to go to the manuals, and
> I know I can install a package compiled for an older version and it will
> probably be fine on a newer version. This is sadly not the case for Linux.
>
> Most of the major Linux distributions, also, are now suffering from the
> feeping creaturitis that drives me up the wall with Windows. Everything
> and the kitchen sink comes with typical distributions, most of which is
> turned on and needs to be actively disabled to save CPU.

While a few daemon-type things which you don't require might get
installed, I've found a full install of Fedora Core 4 to run,
CPU-wise, quite well. A helluva lot snappier and quicker than the
Microsoft OS's. The larger down side of installing everything is the
extra disk space, but in this day of $100 300 GB disks, it's not a
problem to use up an extra 5 GB for stuff.

My 3.8 GHz AMD Athlon 64 / Fedora Core 4 system runs SMOOTHLY and
CRISPLY. I can pop up browsers, terminals, editors, etc., practically
instantly and at will. I have global access to my system anywhere
there's internet. I'm running my own web server, subversion server (a
version control system for software development), and database server.

I don't know a lot about pro audio requirements, so I'm not
necessarily recommending it for this application, but in general I
absolutely love my system. I feel like, after 20 years, I've finally
got my computer back.

> And don't even get me talking about Mac OS X, which is mostly a good thing,
> mostly well-documented, and very consistent, but which doesn't have package
> management. Most Unix systems have had package management since the early
> nineties, and it makes it FAR easier to install and deinstall things.

FC4 has yum, but it's far from care-free. There are always choices in
which repo's to utilize, and half the time applications aren't on a
repository and/or don't come in an RPM anyway. I'm fine with
configure/make/make install - it's not that big of a problem once you've
done it.
--
% Randy Yates % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % on, and she's also a telephone."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% > % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

[Peter A. Stoll]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote in
:

> My car DIDN'T come with a radio! Or air conditioning for that matter.
> But tell BMW today that you want a car with crank-up windows and no
> power steering assist and they laugh at you. Mercedes doesn't even
> want to sell you a standard transmission.... we are in a world where
> feeping creaturitis is destroying everything.
> --scott

One of the few unreasonable failures on my 1975 BMW 2002 was the window
crank-up mechanism. I had to get it seriously repaired on both doors
before selling it at age twelve years/85,000 miles. (the other
unreasonable early failure was the clear coat layer of the paint--lasted a
bit under four years under California UV, which must be several times
higher than Bavarian UV). On the other hand my 1987 BMW 325i is almost at
its 20th birthday and 200,000 miles, with the power windows still working
for my daughter in Wyoming. Maybe BMW knows which flavor they are better
able to make.

Snappy repartee aside, I did stop buying BMWs after that one. I think the
brand left me, rather than that I left the brand. Between Bangle's ruinous
styling conceits and excess "lux" as epitomized by iDrive, I very little
regret losing the bit of extra driving joy the BMW would have provided over
my 2002 Audi A4 (and, yes, they do still know how to make a pretty nice
manual transmission at that shop).

[VainGlorious]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 11:28:32 +0000, Laurence Payne
<lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:

>The new laptop will probably be a "desktop replacement" running Vista.
>I need Offline Files, so it has to be Vista Business or Vista
>Ultimate. This won't be primarily a music machine, but I'd like to
>be able to plug in a Fireface and do occasional location recording.
>
>Vista Business lacks some media programs. Does it also lack any
>underlying audio functionality?
>
>(It would be good to avoid answers from people who don't KNOW, or who
>just want to rant against Microsoft :-)

I won't rant, but I'll give you my learned opinion.

If you want to go portable and record bunches of tracks (Cubase,
knowing you), the Fireface and Vista may not overcome the limited
write bandwidth of your internal hard drive. Once you ramp up to 24/96
and beyond, your HDD will puke on you.

I can understand the desirable portability of a laptop. It's awesome.
And if you're just capturing 4 or 5 tracks at 24/96, it'll probably be
fine. But if you want to charge out there with your Fireface and a
battalion of microphones, you're going to need a more robust solution.
If it must be Cubase on a PC, I'd recommend you build a micro ATX form
factor PC with a fast striped RAID array for scratch disk and lug
around an LCD monitor KB and mouse. Getting one of the desktop
computer straps the gamers use might make portability a bit easier.

See? I didn't even mention how Vista is still too early to implement
for people who have niche applications or really need reliability.

- TR

[David Morgan \(MAMS\)]

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote in message . net...
>
> > I bought VISTA Home basic, and had to completely reformat and telephone authorize
> > my old XP Home install because it screwed it up so badly... there was no way to
> > return the system to XP without doing so, as it wipes out your XP license. I don't
> > know why I took the chance... except for the fact that I didn't want to keep hearing
> > from the likes of Romeo for my preference in waiting until an OS is proven before
> > committing to it. I was still on a 95B OSR-2 box when he was anticipating XP. ;-)
> > (Well... practically).
>
> You obviously haven't been reading my posts concerning Vista. :-)

You're right.... I've missed a lot lately.


http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/soa/Microsoft_partner_Vista_less_secure_than_XP/0,130061733,339274261,00.htm

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:56:14 -0800, VainGlorious
> wrote:

>If you want to go portable and record bunches of tracks (Cubase,
>knowing you), the Fireface and Vista may not overcome the limited
>write bandwidth of your internal hard drive. Once you ramp up to 24/96
>and beyond, your HDD will puke on you.
>
>I can understand the desirable portability of a laptop. It's awesome.
>And if you're just capturing 4 or 5 tracks at 24/96, it'll probably be
>fine. But if you want to charge out there with your Fireface and a
>battalion of microphones, you're going to need a more robust solution.
>If it must be Cubase on a PC, I'd recommend you build a micro ATX form
>factor PC with a fast striped RAID array for scratch disk and lug
>around an LCD monitor KB and mouse. Getting one of the desktop
>computer straps the gamers use might make portability a bit easier.

Yeah, probably Cubase. Maybe Wavelab. I don't need any editing or
mixing features while location recording. That gets done on the big
machine when I get home, which is staying on Windows XP for now. But
I'm not new to this! As far as disk performance goes, I don't imagine
the new machine will be LESS efficient than any of the laptops I've
done this on already. I find 24/44.1 perfectly adequate, and can get
all the tracks I need

This new laptop has several purposes. It's being bought because my
partner's machine has died. The screen went, so she used an external
monitor. Now the power supply has broken. Enough. She gets my
present laptop.

I'm getting a nice new "desktop replacement" with a 17" screen. Partly
purely as a personal indulgence. And why not? :-) It's going to be
Vista because that's where we're heading, like it or not, and I need
to learn Vista - music work isn't exactly *increasing* and computer
support is a nice little earner :-)

[Getting Older and Grumpier Gear Minion]

On Mar 24, 5:05 am, Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom>
wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 21:56:14 -0800, VainGlorious
>
> > wrote:
> >If you want to go portable and record bunches of tracks (Cubase,
> >knowing you), the Fireface and Vista may not overcome the limited
> >write bandwidth of your internal hard drive. Once you ramp up to 24/96
> >and beyond, your HDD will puke on you.
snip
> Vista because that's where we're heading, like it or not, and I need
> to learn Vista - music work isn't exactly *increasing* and computer
> support is a nice little earner :-)
Wow, lot of posts in a day. The recording only had one glitch,
the organist resigned, so the recording was more dialogue than
music, until I shut it down. No functionallity problems at 16/44.1
It worked for what I was doing, but it was analogue in so there
were no hardware driver issues to deal with, and Audacity appears to
be Microsoft compliant since the files were saved and replayed.
FWIWYMMV

[Bruce]

"Preben Friis" > wrote in
. dk:

>
> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually
> the opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it
> does not lack any functionality is, that there are next to no
> limitations for what you can add.

Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:21:20 GMT, Bruce > wrote:

>> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually
>> the opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it
>> does not lack any functionality is, that there are next to no
>> limitations for what you can add.
>
>Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .

Have we actual reports of this happening, in a way that affects
self-recorded material?

[Preben Friis]

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
...
>>
>>Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .
>
> Have we actual reports of this happening, in a way that affects
> self-recorded material?

Self recorded material does not contain DRM protection, so I can't think why
it should ever happen.

Don't blame Microsoft for DRM. Blame the crowd that pirates other peoples
material. Without them, there wouldn't be any DRM.

Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can not
freely copy and distribute their work?

/Preben Friis

[Scott Dorsey]

Bruce > wrote:
>"Preben Friis" > wrote in
. dk:
>
>> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually
>> the opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it
>> does not lack any functionality is, that there are next to no
>> limitations for what you can add.
>
>Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .

Nahh, within six months some teenager in Russia will issue a patch to
disable the whole DRM system. Just watch.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Romeo Rondeau]

Preben Friis wrote:
> "Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
> ...
>>> Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .
>> Have we actual reports of this happening, in a way that affects
>> self-recorded material?
>
> Self recorded material does not contain DRM protection, so I can't think why
> it should ever happen.
>
> Don't blame Microsoft for DRM. Blame the crowd that pirates other peoples
> material. Without them, there wouldn't be any DRM.
>
> Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can not
> freely copy and distribute their work?

When your paycheck comes from people buying your product?

[Preben Friis]

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote:
> Preben Friis wrote:

>> Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can
>> not freely copy and distribute their work?
>
> When your paycheck comes from people buying your product?

So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
of stealing it?

/Preben Friis

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:55:55 +0200, "Preben Friis"
> wrote:

>So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
>of stealing it?

Yeah. But it doesn't work. If you can hear it, you can record it.
It's just a nuisance.

[Scott Dorsey]

Preben Friis > wrote:
>"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote:
>> Preben Friis wrote:
>
>>> Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can
>>> not freely copy and distribute their work?
>>
>> When your paycheck comes from people buying your product?
>
>So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
>of stealing it?

Yes, but attempts to use technical solutions to solve social problems
never work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 25, 2:02 pm, Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom>
wrote:

> >So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
> >of stealing it?

> Yeah. But it doesn't work. If you can hear it, you can record it.
> It's just a nuisance.

And you gotta be smarter than just the ability to drag a file name and
drop it somewhere. And not so lazy. The average music lover won't copy
of a protected song because it takes too long and the copy won't be
perfect. But they'll sure complain about their rights.

[Preben Friis]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote:
> Preben Friis > wrote:

>>So isn't DRM made for ensuring that they actually buy your product instead
>>of stealing it?
>
> Yes, but attempts to use technical solutions to solve social problems
> never work.

Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure that your neighbour
doesn't borrow your lawnmover without asking... That is a technical
solution to a social problem, right?

/Preben Friis

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 25, 3:33 pm, "Preben Friis" > wrote:

> Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure that your neighbour
> doesn't borrow your lawnmover without asking... That is a technical
> solution to a social problem, right?

Nope. He can always cut a hole in your shed. It's just easier for you
to discover that there's a hole in your shed than to discover that
someone has taken your music.

Not every neighbor will borrow your lawnmower if he has to damage your
shed or lock, but one might go that far, particularly if he thought he
could get away with it, like if you're away for the day, won't see you
using it, and probably won't discover the hole in your shed until the
next time you want to use your lawn mower.

[Richard Crowley]

"Preben Friis" wrote ...
> Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure
> that your neighbour doesn't borrow your lawnmover
> without asking... That is a technical solution to a social
> problem, right?

No. It is not a "solution". It is merely a deterrent.
A solution would be to not have a lawnmower or
to screen your neighbors for moral behavior.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 25, 3:55 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "Preben Friis" wrote ...

> No. It is not a "solution". It is merely a deterrent.
> A solution would be to not have a lawnmower or
> to screen your neighbors for moral behavior.

Actually, a solution would be to have a lawnmower that would only
start if it was in your yard. Then your neighbor could borrow it but
he couldn't use it. Or you could have a manual lawnmower, which would
probably deter him from wanting to borrow it.

[Scott Dorsey]

Preben Friis > wrote:
>
>Well... a padlock on your garden shed can make sure that your neighbour
>doesn't borrow your lawnmover without asking... That is a technical
>solution to a social problem, right?

Locks are a good example: locks keep honest people honest but they don't
do anything much to deal with an even slightly determined thief. The
social contract built up around the lock is stronger than the minimal
security the lock actually provides.

People take locks seriously, and that keeps them from borrowing your
lawnmower. But as soon as people stop taking locks seriously, they
don't really do much good.

When I was a kid, cars had ignition locks, but everybody knew how to
defeat them and thieves regularly hotwired cars and ran off with them.
Then GM put in mechanical steering wheel locks, but everybody knew
how to defeat those too. Now everyone has put in car alarms, but they
go off spuriously so often that nobody even looks when an alarm goes
off, so thieves just ignore them. The deterrent effect of the lock
and alarm is more in the mind than being anything physical.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On 25 Mar 2007 17:00:29 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Locks are a good example: locks keep honest people honest but they don't
>do anything much to deal with an even slightly determined thief. The
>social contract built up around the lock is stronger than the minimal
>security the lock actually provides.

A club I drink in has a freestanding cupboard that stores cleaning
materials. It's padlocked.

They lost the key. Debate over how best to defeat the lock. I went
round the back and slid the flimsy hardboard back out of its groove.

[Preben Friis]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote
> Actually, a solution would be to have a lawnmower that would only
> start if it was in your yard. Then your neighbor could borrow it but
> he couldn't use it.

Brilliant! You should patent that. You could call it DLM ... Digital
Lawnmover Management :)

/Preben Friis

[Agent 86]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 17:00:29 -0400, Scott Dorsey wrote:

> When I was a kid, cars had ignition locks, but everybody knew how to
> defeat them and thieves regularly hotwired cars and ran off with them.
> Then GM put in mechanical steering wheel locks, but everybody knew how to
> defeat those too. Now everyone has put in car alarms, but they go off
> spuriously so often that nobody even looks when an alarm goes off, so
> thieves just ignore them. The deterrent effect of the lock and alarm is
> more in the mind than being anything physical.

Scott, I know you live in Virginia. I spent a bit over a year in VA Beach,
off Lynhaven, right near NAS Oceana, back in the early 1990s

At the time, neighboring Norfolk had a reputation as one of the car theft
capitols of the world, and paranoia being what it is, Southside
Tidewater area had more than its share of early adopters of car alarms.

The area also had more than its share of spuriously triggered car alarms,
because at that time, the A6 intruders (about the LOUDEST aircraft I have
ever been in close proximity to), were still actively flying in and out of
Oceana.

I remember one walk through the Walmart parking lot on Lynhaven when I
(quite literally) couldn't walk past ten cars without one of them having
the alarm siren going off.

[Agent 86]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 11:29:31 -0700, Mike Rivers wrote:

> The average music lover won't copy of a protected song because it takes
> too long and the copy won't be perfect.

And that's the really stupid part. the guys worrying about a "perfect"
copy have about as big of a clue as the guys regularly asking on RAP about
the best $200 large condenser.

Personally, I'll take a cassette made with a Nak on a Maxell or TDK CrO2
tape pretty much any day over pretty much any mp3. But that's just me.

Some people think I'm weird. I think they're gullible, so I guess that
makes us even.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 23:55:06 -0400, Agent 86 >
wrote:

>Personally, I'll take a cassette made with a Nak on a Maxell or TDK CrO2
>tape pretty much any day over pretty much any mp3. But that's just me.

Actually, the brain's a pretty good filter. Back in the day, I
tolerated the hiss and Dolby artifacts of cassette, the rumble and
surface noise of vinyl - and focused on the music. In a way, having
to filter out the imperfections of the medium assisted in filtering
out other imperfections. Digital lets me get much closer to the
music. But I notice every blemish, of performance or of recording
technique.

[[email protected]]

(Scott Dorsey) writes:

> Bruce > wrote:
> >"Preben Friis" > wrote in
> . dk:
> >
> >> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually
> >> the opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it
> >> does not lack any functionality is, that there are next to no
> >> limitations for what you can add.
> >
> >Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .
>
> Nahh, within six months some teenager in Russia will issue a patch to
> disable the whole DRM system. Just watch.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

What I don't like is content providers messing with *my* system.

It is one thing to make a media, web access, etc protected.

But it is another thing for the "content" taking over my system, and doing
unknown harm...

Richard

[Randy Yates]

writes:

> (Scott Dorsey) writes:
>
>> Bruce > wrote:
>> >"Preben Friis" > wrote in
>> . dk:
>> >
>> >> So your car lacked "interfaces" for adding new stuff. That is actually
>> >> the opposite of what Scott complained about in Vista. The reason it
>> >> does not lack any functionality is, that there are next to no
>> >> limitations for what you can add.
>> >
>> >Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . . .
>>
>> Nahh, within six months some teenager in Russia will issue a patch to
>> disable the whole DRM system. Just watch.
>> --scott
>> --
>> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>
> What I don't like is content providers messing with *my* system.
>
> It is one thing to make a media, web access, etc protected.
>
> But it is another thing for the "content" taking over my system, and doing
> unknown harm...

I think your concern is legitimate. Why allow them to take over your system?
There are alternative operating systems.
--
% Randy Yates % "She has an IQ of 1001, she has a jumpsuit
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % on, and she's also a telephone."
%%% 919-577-9882 %
%%%% > % 'Yours Truly, 2095', *Time*, ELO
http://home.earthlink.net/~yatescr

[Bruce]

"Preben Friis" > wrote in
. dk:

> "Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
> ...
>>>
>>>Ya think? Just wait until the DRM rises up and bites you in the . . .
>>>.
>>
>> Have we actual reports of this happening, in a way that affects
>> self-recorded material?
>
> Self recorded material does not contain DRM protection, so I can't
> think why it should ever happen.
>
> Don't blame Microsoft for DRM. Blame the crowd that pirates other
> peoples material. Without them, there wouldn't be any DRM.
>
> Why would anyone involved in music production complain that others can
> not freely copy and distribute their work?
>
> /Preben Friis
>
>
>

It extends to the hardware, too.