Is reverb always used on the lead vocal in commercial/pop recordings?

[[email protected]]

With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
can't achieve without it?

[Geoff]

wrote:
> With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
> the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
> backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
> just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>
> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
> can't achieve without it?

Very rare that 0 reverb added. Often too much is added. In some genres this
helps mask other deficiencies in the recording or performance. Or the
producer's bad taste.

geoff

[Romeo Rondeau]

wrote:
> With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
> the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
> backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
> just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.

Sometimes it's the room they recorded the vocal in.

>
> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
> can't achieve without it?

Having absolutely no reverb isn't very natural sounding, our ears are
used to hearing some form of ambience all the time, even if it's just
sound reflecting off the ceiling or walls. Hearing none at all makes
your brain say "Wha?"

[Laurence Payne]

On 22 Mar 2007 17:54:58 -0700, wrote:

>With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
>the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
>backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
>just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>
>Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
>vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
>can't achieve without it?

It's good for a voice to sound as if it's in a room. If you're going
to record close-miced (maybe even in a deadened vocal booth) it's
pretty well essential to add a bit of artificial reverb.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2007 17:54:58 -0700, wrote:
>
>> With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
>> the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
>> backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
>> just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>>
>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
>> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
>> can't achieve without it?
>
> It's good for a voice to sound as if it's in a room. If you're going
> to record close-miced (maybe even in a deadened vocal booth) it's
> pretty well essential to add a bit of artificial reverb.

Or pump it into the main room and mike the room :-)

[Les Cargill]

wrote:
> With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
> the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
> backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
> just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>
> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
> vocal?

Yes.

> I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
> can't achieve without it?
>

Reverb brings out the nasty in autotune. And *SUBTLE*???? Ha!

--
Les Cargill

[Les Cargill]

Geoff wrote:
> wrote:
>
>>With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
>>the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
>>backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
>>just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>>
>>Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
>>vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
>>can't achieve without it?
>
>
> Very rare that 0 reverb added. Often too much is added. In some genres this
> helps mask other deficiencies in the recording or performance. Or the
> producer's bad taste.
>
> geoff
>
>

Compared to say, Patsy Cline, there is no reverb at all.

--
Les Cargill

[Agent 86]

On Fri, 23 Mar 2007 16:54:43 -0400, Les Cargill wrote:


>>
> Compared to say, Patsy Cline, there is no reverb at all.

Heaven forbid we should ever expect that a singer should actually be able
to sing.

[Barry]

On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:

> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
> can't achieve without it?

reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
delay
set it for high bpm

[Scott Dorsey]

Barry > wrote:
>On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:
>
>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
>> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
>> can't achieve without it?
>
>reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
>delay

No, reverb is an infinite number of slightly different delays.

A simple delay gives you the "tape slap" vocal effect you'll hear on
Great Balls of Fire.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On 23 Mar 2007 19:49:38 -0700, "Barry" > wrote:

>reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong. Look it up.

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 4:39 am, Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom>
wrote:
> On 23 Mar 2007 19:49:38 -0700, "Barry" > wrote:
>
> >reverb is just delay right?...
>
> Wrong. Look it up.

oh relax, for all intents and purposes, he could thicken the vocal
without a reverb

that was my point, and yes, reverb IS delay.. even if it's a million
of them
they are delayed or pre-delayed

make up your mind there skipper

[Mike Heins]

On 2007-03-23, > wrote:
> With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
> the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
> backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
> just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>
> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
> can't achieve without it?

Is zero reverb ever used in anything any more? Didn't even the
old-time radio singers use a plate?

I believe reverb is used for two reasons -- the recording itself
and for the singer while doing the recording (or live singing for
that matter).

I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
hear it so well.

--
Mike Heins
Perusion -- Expert Interchange Consulting http://www.perusion.com/

Be patient. God isn't finished with me yet. -- unknown

[hank alrich]

Barry wrote:

> Laurence Payne wrote:
> > On 23 Mar 2007 19:49:38 -0700, "Barry" > wrote:
> >
> > >reverb is just delay right?...
> >
> > Wrong. Look it up.
>
> oh relax, for all intents and purposes, he could thicken the vocal
> without a reverb
>
> that was my point, and yes, reverb IS delay.. even if it's a million
> of them
> they are delayed or pre-delayed
>
> make up your mind there skipper

No reverb, is not "just delay" in the professionally understood use of
those words. If you do not care to be precise there's always
"yourhomestudiodotcom", etc.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article >,
(Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> Barry > wrote:
> >On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:
> >
> >> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
> >> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
> >> can't achieve without it?
> >
> >reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
> >delay
>
> No, reverb is an infinite number of slightly different delays.
>
> A simple delay gives you the "tape slap" vocal effect you'll hear on
> Great Balls of Fire.
> --scott

Careful. The majority of today's youngsters never heard of Great Balls
of Fire, let alone Jerry Lee Lewis.

Edwin

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 11:47 am, (hank alrich) wrote:

> No reverb, is not "just delay" in the professionally understood use of
> those words. If you do not care to be precise there's always
> "yourhomestudiodotcom", etc.
>
> --
> ha
> Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

Right! If you want reverb you gotta ask for reverb

don't be mealy mouthed either, come on outcha mouth with it

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 11:32 am, Mike Heins > wrote:

> I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
> it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
> my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
> is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
> hear it so well.

so turn it down, you scared to tell the man "It's too loud man.. can
you turn it down a little bit"


Pappy

[Mike Heins]

On 2007-03-24, Barry > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 11:32 am, Mike Heins > wrote:
>
>> I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
>> it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
>> my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
>> is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
>> hear it so well.
>
> so turn it down, you scared to tell the man "It's too loud man.. can
> you turn it down a little bit"

Is it normal to be combative in this group? Ah well, it *is* Usenet, and
we are still in the endless September.

You *want* to hear yourself if you are a singer, of course. If you can't
hear yourself, it is difficult to sing well. I think we spend lots of time
and money on monitor mixes for just that reason....

--
Mike Heins

Be patient. God isn't finished with me yet. -- unknown

[Romeo Rondeau]

Edwin Hurwitz wrote:
> In article >,
> (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> Barry > wrote:
>>> On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
>>>> vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
>>>> can't achieve without it?
>>> reverb is just delay right?... even without it, you could use a simple
>>> delay
>> No, reverb is an infinite number of slightly different delays.
>>
>> A simple delay gives you the "tape slap" vocal effect you'll hear on
>> Great Balls of Fire.
>> --scott
>
> Careful. The majority of today's youngsters never heard of Great Balls
> of Fire, let alone Jerry Lee Lewis.
>
> Edwin

Jerry Lee Lewis would be a registered sex offender today...

[hank alrich]

Romeo Rondeau > wrote:

> Jerry Lee Lewis would be a registered sex offender today...

And/or a star in the new reality teeve version of All In The Family.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[hank alrich]

Barry wrote:

> Mike Heins wrote:
>
> > I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
> > it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
> > my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
> > is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
> > hear it so well.
>
> so turn it down, you scared to tell the man "It's too loud man.. can
> you turn it down a little bit"

You are beginning to appear to be clueless. Too many magazines, not
enough highway.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Barry]

On Mar 24, 6:35 pm, (hank alrich) wrote:

> You are beginning to appear to be clueless. Too many magazines, not
> enough highway.

I'm too much a pacifist

[Les Cargill]

Mike Heins wrote:

> On 2007-03-23, > wrote:
>
>>With an ear toward pop country, I notice that even in recordings where
>>the vocal sounds very up front & dry, in certain spaces where the
>>backing tracks drop out you can still hear some reverb decay, it's
>>just not particularly noticeable through most of the track.
>>
>>Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop country
>>vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle presence you
>>can't achieve without it?
>
>
> Is zero reverb ever used in anything any more? Didn't even the
> old-time radio singers use a plate?
>

I hear less and less reverb on anything commercial. There
are exceptions - My Morning Jacket drenches on the 'verb,
and relatively tinny reverb at that. It's great :)

> I believe reverb is used for two reasons -- the recording itself
> and for the singer while doing the recording (or live singing for
> that matter).
>
> I know that when I am singing, I can tell when there is no reverb and
> it is discomfiting to have those small tonal imperfections right in
> my face. Obviously I know they exist, and I can even tell when there
> is a little phlegm causing a muddy tone, but it is discouraging to
> hear it so well.
>

--
Les Cargill

[Geoff]

Barry wrote:
> On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:
>
>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
>> country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
>> presence you can't achieve without it?
>
> reverb is just delay right?...

Wrong.

geoff

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:14:23 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
wrote:

>>>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
>>>> country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
>>>> presence you can't achieve without it?
>>> reverb is just delay right?...
>>
>> Wrong.
>>
>> geoff
>
>His statement wasn't really wrong, just incomplete.

No. He said JUST delay. Wrong.

[Romeo Rondeau]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2007 19:14:23 -0600, Romeo Rondeau >
> wrote:
>
>>>>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
>>>>> country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
>>>>> presence you can't achieve without it?
>>>> reverb is just delay right?...
>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> geoff
>> His statement wasn't really wrong, just incomplete.
>
> No. He said JUST delay. Wrong.

Reverb is just delay, it's lots of delays panned, fedback and filtered.
Convolution reverb is a little different, though. Lighten up, Laurence,
it's just usenet :-)

[Romeo Rondeau]

Geoff wrote:
> Barry wrote:
>> On Mar 22, 7:54 pm, wrote:
>>
>>> Would you say it's rare that -0- reverb would be used on a pop
>>> country vocal? I assume it's used because of a certain subtle
>>> presence you can't achieve without it?
>> reverb is just delay right?...
>
> Wrong.
>
> geoff

His statement wasn't really wrong, just incomplete.

[Ty Ford]

In a world where cream is just milk, yes.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Michael Wozniak]

"Ty Ford" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> In a world where cream is just milk, yes.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
>
>
> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
> Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU
>
I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Productions
this sig is haiku

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak" >
wrote:

> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
>

Students and interns?!

You must think you're all that!

[hank alrich]

Bro Barry wrote:

> Michael Wozniak wrote:
>
> > I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
> > delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
> > perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
> >
>
> Students and interns?!
>
> You must think you're all that!

He is all that. You, on the other hand, aren't all that.

--
ha
Iraq is Arabic for Vietnam

[Michael Wozniak]

"Bro Barry" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak" >
> wrote:
>
>> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
>> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
>> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
>>
>
> Students and interns?!
>
> You must think you're all that!
>

I ask again... troll or idiot? I'm starting to think "both"...

Mikey Wozniak
Nova Music Poductions
this sig is haiku

"don't make me take the gloves off, bubba"

[Ty Ford]

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:57:32 -0400, Bro Barry wrote
(in article om>):

> On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak" >
> wrote:
>
>> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
>> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
>> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
>>
>
> Students and interns?!
>
> You must think you're all that!
>

? What a strange reaction.

Ty Ford

--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 27, 7:37 am, Ty Ford > wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 23:57:32 -0400, Bro Barry wrote
> (in article om>):
>
> > On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak" >
> > wrote:
>
> >> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
> >> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
> >> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
>
> > Students and interns?!
>
> > You must think you're all that!
>
> ? What a strange reaction.
>
> Ty Ford

Not really. Not to real musicians.

Lemme guess, you're not really an artist???

Artists get me, while educators do not.

There are.. those who play.. artists
Those who can't play.. teach.

LOL

Just kidding!

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 26, 1:07 pm, "Michael Wozniak" >
wrote:

> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.

I was just messin with ya dude! Hell, maybe you DO think you are all
that.

LMAO

bet it can't play none either

[Scott Dorsey]

Bro Barry > wrote:
>
>Not really. Not to real musicians.
>
>Lemme guess, you're not really an artist???

For the most part, the people here are engineers and not artists. This
is an audio production group.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 28, 8:01 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> For the most part, the people here are engineers and not artists. This
> is an audio production group.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

That's cool

I see you posting some good posts on here before, your name sticks out
that you know what you're doing.

I record with a home daw, my only out gear is an old fm reciever, I
have 150 watts to mix by, a good headset and cheap mic to record with.

I'm fixin to get a board and a few decent mics. I think I'm wanting a
condenser for vocals and dynamic for say a choir.

Are you full time? How did you get into this line of work

Do you look at many meters or just use your ear?

[Scott Dorsey]

Bro Barry > wrote:
>
>Are you full time? How did you get into this line of work

I started as an intern at Master Sound, cutting 45s for jukeboxes.
Now I am http://www.kludgeaudio.com

>Do you look at many meters or just use your ear?

You have to use your ear AND the meters, because they tell you different
things. You can't mix with the meters, and you can't set level to tape
by ear.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Bro Barry" wrote ...
> "Michael Wozniak" wrote:
>
>> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
>> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
>> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
>>
>
> Students and interns?!
>
> You must think you're all that!

And YOUR credentials are what, exactly?

[Richard Crowley]

"Bro Barry" wrote ...
> Ty Ford wrote:
>> Bro Barry wrote
>> > "Michael Wozniak" wrote:
>>
>> >> I usually tell my students and interns that the distinction between
>> >> delay/echo and reverb is that with echo, distinct repetitions can be
>> >> perceived, whereas with reverb they cannot.
>>
>> > Students and interns?!
>>
>> > You must think you're all that!
>>
>> ? What a strange reaction.
>>
>
> Not really. Not to real musicians.

And you fancy yourself a "real musician"?
Is that your excuse for lack of social demeanor?

> Lemme guess, you're not really an artist???

Try to do just a tiny amount of lurking (or at least reviewing
the Google Groups Archives) before making such offensive
remarks. Do you think that only musicians are "artists"?

> Artists get me, while educators do not.

Consider finding a newsgroup where your "artists" hang out.
You're not making much of a positive impression here.

> There are.. those who play.. artists
> Those who can't play.. teach.
> LOL
> Just kidding!

Maybe you should keep your day job.

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 28, 9:28 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Bro Barry > wrote:
>
> >Are you full time? How did you get into this line of work
>
> I started as an intern at Master Sound, cutting 45s for jukeboxes.
> Now I amhttp://www.kludgeaudio.com

cool, actually just read the whole site.
Sorry about your Velcro, I have 2 myself.

> >Do you look at many meters or just use your ear?
>
> You have to use your ear AND the meters, because they tell you different
> things. You can't mix with the meters, and you can't set level to tape
> by ear.

good point about the meters.

about noise reduction. I thought it was just another plugin, I have a
plugin called, "noise remover" lol.. it works.. but it can also take
too much of the sound out.

I have found that it somehow magnifies the 400 cycle range.. things
begin to get honky if you know what I mean.

I never use it.

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 28, 12:59 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:

> And YOUR credentials are what, exactly?

I'm all heart man! that's gotta count for something

[Scott Dorsey]

Bro Barry > wrote:
>
>about noise reduction. I thought it was just another plugin, I have a
>plugin called, "noise remover" lol.. it works.. but it can also take
>too much of the sound out.

Noise reduction is not one thing. It's dozens and dozens of things.

First there is traditional double-ended NR, where something is done to
reduce the dynamic range of the signal during recording and that is undone
in playback. This reduces the noise of the recording system. Dolby A, B, C,
Dbx II and II, and Telcom C4 are typical examples.

THEN there are single-ended noise reduction systems. These ALL have sonic
side-effects and are really best used only as a last resort.

There are click and pop removal systems, and the slightly related decracking
systems that deal with transient noise. There are waveform redrawing tools,
and broadband noise removal systems. There are systems to remove repetitive
waveforms. The CEDAR kit, for instance, has well over a dozen different
algorithms available for different noises and different signals.

>I have found that it somehow magnifies the 400 cycle range.. things
>begin to get honky if you know what I mean.
>
>I never use it.

What IS it?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 28, 10:55 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> >I never use it.
>
> What IS it?
> --scott

Part of the waves diamond bundle...

goes..

X - Click, Crackle, Hum, and Noise

It does work, but the end sound... is such a challenge to make sound
normal...
mostly the noise I try to remove is from my hot little cheap mic, lol

LOL

lmao

so sorry

too funny, I know.. I need to upgrade

Go wake your wife and tell her, Barry is due for an upgrade
dooo hoo hOOOOOOOoo hoooo for an upgrade

whew!

Look, if I can pull what I did on this cheapo stuff, I KNOW I can get
a hit with some real equipment.

I've never heard of your recording technic; pairing mics? Interesting.
I read why you do it, makes sense too, just never heard of it.

Barry

[Bro Barry]

On Mar 28, 1:04 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:

> Try to do just a tiny amount of lurking (or at least reviewing
> the Google Groups Archives) before making such offensive
> remarks. Do you think that only musicians are "artists"?

No, you're wrong, engineers are not necessarily artists.
It just depends on which side of the brain they work from.
Many are artists in truest sense, some are not.

besides, I said I was joking

Are you an artist?

and lemme just pacify your big ol mind, I don't hold any artist in
esteem, not even myself.. it's no... feather. anyone in their right
mind can be an artist.

8