Which wav type to use?

[Tobiah]

alice wrote:
> For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using Adobe Audition,
> and I see there are several types of wav files to choose from. Which
> should I use?

What are the choices?

Tobiah

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[alice]

For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using Adobe Audition,
and I see there are several types of wav files to choose from. Which
should I use? I'm trying to save the file that will be used for a
commercially released CD compilation.

[Don Pearce]

On 21 Mar 2007 12:24:01 -0700, "alice" > wrote:

>For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using Adobe Audition,
>and I see there are several types of wav files to choose from. Which
>should I use? I'm trying to save the file that will be used for a
>commercially released CD compilation.

You need the Windows PCM option. Don't misread and go for ADPCM.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Scott Dorsey]

In article om>,
alice > wrote:
>For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using Adobe Audition,
>and I see there are several types of wav files to choose from. Which
>should I use? I'm trying to save the file that will be used for a
>commercially released CD compilation.

Whatever the producers of the compilation (or their mastering house)
want.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"alice" wrote ...
> For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using
> Adobe Audition, and I see there are several types of wav
> files to choose from. Which should I use? I'm trying to
> save the file that will be used for a commercially released
> CD compilation.

Files must be "44100 - 16-bit - Stereo". This is established
when starting a new file, etc.

Shen you save, use the "Windows PCM (*.wav)" option.

[Paul Stamler]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> "alice" wrote ...
> > For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using
> > Adobe Audition, and I see there are several types of wav
> > files to choose from. Which should I use? I'm trying to
> > save the file that will be used for a commercially released
> > CD compilation.
>
> Files must be "44100 - 16-bit - Stereo". This is established
> when starting a new file, etc.

Not necessarily; a lot of the time it's preferred to record at 32-bit
(Audition's way of processing 24-bit data), then manipulate the file as
needed. The last thing you do is dither it down to 16 bits. Or, if you're
sending to someone else to master, you leave it in 32-bit format. Let their
mothers worry.

> When you save, use the "Windows PCM (*.wav)" option.

Yep.

Peace,
Paul

[alice]

On Mar 22, 1:32 am, "Paul Stamler" > wrote:
> "Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > "alice" wrote ...
> > > For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using
> > > Adobe Audition, and I see there are several types of wav
> > > files to choose from. Which should I use? I'm trying to
> > > save the file that will be used for a commercially released
> > > CD compilation.
>
> > Files must be "44100 - 16-bit - Stereo". This is established
> > when starting a new file, etc.
>
> Not necessarily; a lot of the time it's preferred to record at 32-bit
> (Audition's way of processing 24-bit data), then manipulate the file as
> needed. The last thing you do is dither it down to 16 bits. Or, if you're
> sending to someone else to master, you leave it in 32-bit format. Let their
> mothers worry.
>
> > When you save, use the "Windows PCM (*.wav)" option.
>
> Yep.
>
> Peace,
> Paul

So if I'm sending files off to be put onto a CD compilation, should I
leave it 32 bit, or make it 24 bit?

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 23, 8:35 pm, "alice" > wrote:

> So if I'm sending files off to be put onto a CD compilation, should I
> leave it 32 bit, or make it 24 bit?

I'd make it 24-bit, or maybe even 16-bit. Some people have never heard
of 32-bit files.

[RD Jones]

"alice" > wrote:

> So if I'm sending files off to be put onto a CD compilation, should I
> leave it 32 bit, or make it 24 bit?

24bit integer (Type I) is normally used for file intechange between
studios, mastering rooms, etc,
Audition (and CoolEdit Pro) defaults to writing files in the same
format that it uses for it's internal computation: 32bit floating
point.
Some programs don't recognize these 32bit files, but the number
is dwindling.

If you want to "Save as" any other format such as the common
24bit you have to tell AA/CEP in save as/options and it will convert
upon saving (and dither if specified).

If the compilation is being put together from separate sources and
not being mastered as a project (very unusual) they may want 44/16
files but I'd verify this with the producer. You may not want your
song on a compilation that's not being mastered as a whole.

rd

[Paul Stamler]

"alice" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> > Not necessarily; a lot of the time it's preferred to record at 32-bit
> > (Audition's way of processing 24-bit data), then manipulate the file as
> > needed. The last thing you do is dither it down to 16 bits. Or, if
you're
> > sending to someone else to master, you leave it in 32-bit format. Let
their
> > mothers worry.
> >
>
> So if I'm sending files off to be put onto a CD compilation, should I
> leave it 32 bit, or make it 24 bit?

Ask the producer or, better, the mastering engineer. The two formats -- 32-
and 24-bit -- actually contain the same data, but the first is set up as
floating-point notation while the second is fixed-point.

Peace,
Paul

[Romeo Rondeau]

Soundhaspriority wrote:
> > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>> On Mar 22, 1:32 am, "Paul Stamler" > wrote:
>>> "Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> "alice" wrote ...
>>>>> For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using
>>>>> Adobe Audition, and I see there are several types of wav
>>>>> files to choose from. Which should I use? I'm trying to
>>>>> save the file that will be used for a commercially released
>>>>> CD compilation.
>>>> Files must be "44100 - 16-bit - Stereo". This is established
>>>> when starting a new file, etc.
>>> Not necessarily; a lot of the time it's preferred to record at 32-bit
>>> (Audition's way of processing 24-bit data), then manipulate the file as
>>> needed. The last thing you do is dither it down to 16 bits. Or, if you're
>>> sending to someone else to master, you leave it in 32-bit format. Let their
>>> mothers worry.
>>>
>>>> When you save, use the "Windows PCM (*.wav)" option.
>>> Yep.
>>>
>>> Peace,
>>> Paul
>> So if I'm sending files off to be put onto a CD compilation, should I
>> leave it 32 bit, or make it 24 bit?
>
> The best compromise would be to split the difference, i.e. 28 bit files.
>
> Bob Morein
> Dresher, PA
> (215) 646-4894
>

How about 30 files that contain 2 bits each (30, 2bit files), this will
give you a net gain of 28 bits... just think of all that extra dynamic
range! It's gotta sound better :-)

[Bob Howes]

"Romeo Rondeau" > wrote in message
t...
>>>>> "alice" wrote ...
>>>>>> For the first time I am now exporting a wav file using
>>>>>> Adobe Audition, and I see there are several types of wav
>>>>>> files to choose from. Which should I use? I'm trying to
>>>>>> save the file that will be used for a commercially released
>>>>>> CD compilation.
>> (215) 646-4894
>
> How about 30 files that contain 2 bits each (30, 2bit files), this will
> give you a net gain of 28 bits... just think of all that extra dynamic
> range! It's gotta sound better :-)

For some reason, the original parts of this thread didn't propagate through
my news server so if this has be dealt with previously, I apologise.

However, two points:

If, when you mention something for a commercial CD, you mean it's a
finished track, the ONLY format you can use is 16 bit, 44.1kHz sampling,
stereo. This makes a "red book" CD, i.e. a standard one that plays in any
machine. Anything else is just data and won't be a "music CD". Your
mastering house may be able to convert for you, but many frown on having to
do this.

However, while you're producing your music, most Audition users prefer to
record in 32 bit float format at the highest sample rate your PC can
realistically handle. This gives you virtually unlimited headroom in terms
of clipping and really nice resolution when applying effects. The Audition
algorithms for converting to 16/44.1 are fine to use at the end.

Finally, as for the "type" of wave file to use, just select what Audition
calls "Windows PCM" at the sample rate and bit depth you've selected.

Bob

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>On Mar 23, 8:35 pm, "alice" > wrote:
>
>> So if I'm sending files off to be put onto a CD compilation, should I
>> leave it 32 bit, or make it 24 bit?
>
>I'd make it 24-bit, or maybe even 16-bit. Some people have never heard
>of 32-bit files.

I'd ask the mastering house what they can deal with, before doing anything
else. On compilation jobs, the mastering guys are probably going to be
doing more processing than usual, since they are trying to make a bunch of
discrete tracks from different people made at different places fit together
as a coherent whole. Anything you can do to help them is good.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 24, 9:43 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> I'd ask the mastering house what they can deal with, before doing anything
> else. On compilation jobs, the mastering guys are probably going to be
> doing more processing than usual, since they are trying to make a bunch of
> discrete tracks from different people made at different places fit together
> as a coherent whole.

That's the right answer but it's not clear just how "professional"
this project is, if one (maybe more) of the sources is from someone
who doesn't know about this. But when it comes to not knowing what
will happen to your file other than that it will eventually appear on
a CD, while it might not be optimum for being manipulated by a
competent mastering engineer, there's nothing safer than a 16-bit 44.1
kHz WAV file.

[alice]

On Mar 24, 7:40 am, "Mike Rivers" > wrote:
> On Mar 24, 9:43 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> > I'd ask the mastering house what they can deal with, before doing anything
> > else. On compilation jobs, the mastering guys are probably going to be
> > doing more processing than usual, since they are trying to make a bunch of
> > discrete tracks from different people made at different places fit together
> > as a coherent whole.
>
> That's the right answer but it's not clear just how "professional"
> this project is, if one (maybe more) of the sources is from someone
> who doesn't know about this. But when it comes to not knowing what
> will happen to your file other than that it will eventually appear on
> a CD, while it might not be optimum for being manipulated by a
> competent mastering engineer, there's nothing safer than a 16-bit 44.1
> kHz WAV file.

Thank you. There is a lot of good info here. I guess I should be more
specific....for this project I'm taking a song off off of an audio CD
(for a friend), these are live recordings, all one long track, so part
of the reason to do this is just to extract the song into one track.
I'm not actually sure who is doing the compilation or if it will be
mastered, but I would assume so. So I guess I want the safest option.
I would assume them that since it's already from a CD, it's at 16
bits.
How does one chagne the bit rate any ways? I can see where to do it in
the initial recording setup, but in the save options I don't see it.

I will in the future be taking all these songs from several CDs and
make them into individual tracks so that they can be ready to be used
for anything, so I again I will want to make the safest files for
later use. Then I will also be needing to know how to do this with
things I record myself from recording onto the PC in the first place,
and may eventually want to make a real CD, but I would probably then
be taking it to a mastering engineer, in which I'm sure I just ask
them what they need, but it wouldn't hurt to know right now.

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 26, 1:30 pm, "alice" > wrote:

> ....for this project I'm taking a song off off of an audio CD
> (for a friend), these are live recordings, all one long track, so part
> of the reason to do this is just to extract the song into one track.

In that case there's no reason to fool with anything other than 16-
bit.

> How does one chagne the bit rate any ways? I can see where to do it in
> the initial recording setup, but in the save options I don't see it.

There are often some options for reducing the word length (like from
24- to 16-bit. These would involve dithering, and there are usually
some options for what kind of dither ot use. But since you can't put
data (other than zeros) where there's no data, you aren't likely to
find options for changing a 16-bit file to 24-bit. Generally if you've
combining files in a project, you can always use files that are
shorter than the project's word length, but if you were to try to
import a 24-bit file into a 16-bit project, it would complain, or at
least ask how you want to deal with it.

If you're starting a project and plan to have it mastered, it's
probably best these days to use 24-bit. Everyone can handle that, and
conversion to 16-bit can (as it should) be done at the very last step
before making the CD master.

[Paul Stamler]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> There are often some options for reducing the word length (like from
> 24- to 16-bit. These would involve dithering, and there are usually
> some options for what kind of dither ot use. But since you can't put
> data (other than zeros) where there's no data, you aren't likely to
> find options for changing a 16-bit file to 24-bit.

Actually most editing and DAW programs have that option. In Adobe Audition,
for example, you can convert any format to any other, with just about any
bit depth or sampling rate. Converting from 16 to 24 (or in the case of
Audition, 32) bits does simply add zeroes at the end of the file, but that's
useful if you're planning to mess with the file in any way other than
cut-and-paste editing.

Peace,
Paul

[Arny Krueger]

"Paul Stamler" > wrote in message

> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>> There are often some options for reducing the word
>> length (like from 24- to 16-bit. These would involve
>> dithering, and there are usually some options for what
>> kind of dither ot use. But since you can't put data
>> (other than zeros) where there's no data, you aren't
>> likely to find options for changing a 16-bit file to
>> 24-bit.
>
> Actually most editing and DAW programs have that option.
> In Adobe Audition, for example, you can convert any
> format to any other, with just about any bit depth or
> sampling rate. Converting from 16 to 24 (or in the case
> of Audition, 32) bits does simply add zeroes at the end
> of the file, but that's useful if you're planning to mess
> with the file in any way other than cut-and-paste
> editing.

Audition/CEP by default dithers 32 to 16 bit conversions, but it will just
add zeroes if you force it to. There is a wealth of dither options including
a goodly number that are highly shaped.

[Paul Stamler]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Paul Stamler" > wrote in message
>
> > "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >
> >> There are often some options for reducing the word
> >> length (like from 24- to 16-bit. These would involve
> >> dithering, and there are usually some options for what
> >> kind of dither ot use. But since you can't put data
> >> (other than zeros) where there's no data, you aren't
> >> likely to find options for changing a 16-bit file to
> >> 24-bit.
> >
> > Actually most editing and DAW programs have that option.
> > In Adobe Audition, for example, you can convert any
> > format to any other, with just about any bit depth or
> > sampling rate. Converting from 16 to 24 (or in the case
> > of Audition, 32) bits does simply add zeroes at the end
> > of the file, but that's useful if you're planning to mess
> > with the file in any way other than cut-and-paste
> > editing.
>
> Audition/CEP by default dithers 32 to 16 bit conversions, but it will just
> add zeroes if you force it to. There is a wealth of dither options
including
> a goodly number that are highly shaped.

Yes, but we were talking about 16 to 32.

Peace,
Paul

[Mike Rivers]

On Mar 26, 2:54 pm, "Paul Stamler" > wrote:
> Yes, but we were talking about 16 to 32.

And I've never used Audition. I've never looked at those options in
WaveLab or Sound Forge because it's never occurred to me to convert a
16-bit file to 24 or 32 bits. While in theory it might be less
severely buggered by processing operations at a longer word length, in
practice I doubt that it would make a difference worth worrying about.

[Arny Krueger]

"Paul Stamler" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Paul Stamler" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>
>>>> There are often some options for reducing the word
>>>> length (like from 24- to 16-bit. These would involve
>>>> dithering, and there are usually some options for what
>>>> kind of dither ot use. But since you can't put data
>>>> (other than zeros) where there's no data, you aren't
>>>> likely to find options for changing a 16-bit file to
>>>> 24-bit.
>>>
>>> Actually most editing and DAW programs have that option.
>>> In Adobe Audition, for example, you can convert any
>>> format to any other, with just about any bit depth or
>>> sampling rate. Converting from 16 to 24 (or in the case
>>> of Audition, 32) bits does simply add zeroes at the end
>>> of the file, but that's useful if you're planning to
>>> mess with the file in any way other than cut-and-paste
>>> editing.
>>
>> Audition/CEP by default dithers 32 to 16 bit
>> conversions, but it will just add zeroes if you force it
>> to. There is a wealth of dither options including a
>> goodly number that are highly shaped.
>
> Yes, but we were talking about 16 to 32.

So you were - not reading well today. Apologies.