Condenser mic inside acoustic guitar?

[Serge Stodolnik]

Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
inside acoustic guitar?
Which capsule?
Omni or unidirectional?

--
Serge Stodolnik.
Production Music for Film/advertisement/production
libraries/multimedia/web sites.
http://www.subverted.com
http://www.myspace.com/stodolnik
E-MAIL: sergestodolnik@NO SPAM tx.rr.com

[Nate Najar]

my only experience is with the akg 419 (i think). Don't use it for
critical studio recording, but blended with an undersaddle pickup it
works very well. Greg at Pendulum audio has a good blender for it.
The problem is mounting it securely and finding good placement. THe
other thing is that, well, it sounds like the inside of the guitar.
But for lightly blending with a pickup it definitely gives some woody
depth to the amplified signal.

My only experience with this is nylon string btw.

Nate

On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, "Serge Stodolnik" >
wrote:
> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
> inside acoustic guitar?
> Which capsule?
> Omni or unidirectional?
>
> --
> Serge Stodolnik.
> Production Music for Film/advertisement/production
> libraries/multimedia/web sites.http://www.subverted.comhttp://www.myspace.com/stodolnik
> E-MAIL: sergestodolnik@NO SPAM tx.rr.com

[DeeAa]

"Serge Stodolnik" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
> inside acoustic guitar?
> Which capsule?
> Omni or unidirectional?
>
Not condenser, but this http://deeaa.pp.fi/elderlywoman.mp3 I recorded by
just sticking an old AKG lapel mic inside the guitar so that the lapel clip
held it inside the soundhole with the capsule pointing up toward the
strings. It's good enough for demo recordings and reinforcing other sound.

[Mike Rivers]

On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, "Serge Stodolnik" >
wrote:
> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
> inside acoustic guitar?

I've seen a number of good sounding performing rigs with a Countryman
or DPA omni mounted inside. It takes a really good mic and a little EQ
to get something that sounds like an acoustic guitar. Spend enough
money on the mic and time in finding the right place to put it and you
can approach the sound of a decent small diaphragm condenser mic
outside, but with less risk of feedback.

For recording, I'd always use a conventional mic position, and, if
there's a mic inside or a pickup, listen to what happens when adding a
bit of that in with the external mic.

[Willie K. Yee, MD]

On 3 Feb 2007 22:48:31 -0800, "Nate Najar" > wrote:

>my only experience is with the akg 419 (i think). Don't use it for
>critical studio recording, but blended with an undersaddle pickup it
>works very well. Greg at Pendulum audio has a good blender for it.
>The problem is mounting it securely and finding good placement. THe
>other thing is that, well, it sounds like the inside of the guitar.

What does that sound like? I've never been inside a guitar.

[Scott Dorsey]

Serge Stodolnik > wrote:
>
>Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
>inside acoustic guitar?

Yes. It sounds funny, but sometimes can work as an addition to a pickup.
It's all body sound, though. Lots of low end, no string attack.

>Which capsule?
>Omni or unidirectional?

Everybody uses an omni. It really won't matter much, though, since
everything is omni down at the bottom end and there isn't much top
end inside the body.

This is a thing people do when they need isolation at all cost, as for
PA applications.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

I assume this is a joke, but if it isn't, be sure the mic is "tied down" so
it can't rattle. This would be paticularly bad if the performer likes to
slap or bang the instrument.

I also assume you are miking just the guitar, not the performer's voice as
well. Using two mics in this way would introduce all sorts of acoustic
problems.

[Doug]

On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, "Serge Stodolnik" >
wrote:
> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
> inside acoustic guitar?
> Which capsule?
> Omni or unidirectional?
>
> --
> Serge Stodolnik.
> Production Music for Film/advertisement/production
> libraries/multimedia/web sites.http://www.subverted.comhttp://www.myspace.com/stodolnik
> E-MAIL: sergestodolnik@NO SPAM tx.rr.com

For mic'ing flamenco guitar, some use a plastic foam disc cut to
friction fit into the soundhole. The mic is embedded in the foam
facing towards the treble strings and aimed towards the upper bout.
The foam reduces the chance of feedback and can be twisted to aim the
mic for better sound.

[Les Cargill]

Serge Stodolnik wrote:

> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
> inside acoustic guitar?
> Which capsule?
> Omni or unidirectional?
>
> --
> Serge Stodolnik.
> Production Music for Film/advertisement/production
> libraries/multimedia/web sites.
> http://www.subverted.com
> http://www.myspace.com/stodolnik
> E-MAIL: sergestodolnik@NO SPAM tx.rr.com
>
>
<snip>

It'll be very very boomy. I tried a Radio Shack
capsule in the upper bout once, but it had a very
wonky frequency response at the resonant frequency of
the body.

If it is *remotely* possible, go get a K&K Western/
Pure Western pickup set put in. It's quite a bit cheaper than
a good microphone ( and has less-than-perfect sound )
but the tracks from one so far are useable in a mix,
and they work well live.

K&K offers the Trinity systems, but I can't figure out
what the mic is good for. The guy who put the Ultra
Pure Western on my guitar says "guitar percussion."
Dunno. They feed back easily.

--
Les Cargill

[Paul Stamler]

"Serge Stodolnik" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
> inside acoustic guitar?
> Which capsule?
> Omni or unidirectional?

I've been using, of all things, an omni miniature condenser from Radio Shack
in my guitar for about ten years. It's attached to the brace under the
fingerboard, with the microphone directly under the high E string, attached
by sticky goo (3M Strip-Calk). The mic's battery pack is attached by Velcro
to the inside back of the guitar, under the soundhole, so I can reach in to
turn it on and off, or detach it to change batteries. The wire is connected
to an endpin jack. I use a 1/4" - XLR adapter with pin 2 connected to tip
and pin 3 connected to sleeve, nothing connected to pin 1.

I swiped the method and placement from Martin Carthy, because we have
similar guitars (his a 000-18, mine a 00-18). It gives something of a
"smile" curve but it works well and can be EQd reasonably flat. The more
recent mini-mics from the Shack have more of a high-frequency peak and I
don't know how well they'd work, but they're so cheap you should try one
out. Placement is critical, though; move the mic under the B string instead
of the high E and it sounds godawful, like it's been run through a
phase-shifter.

Attaching the mic to the brace is crucial; I first tried isolating it with
Velcro and it sounded awful. One of the secrets is conduction.

Peace,
Paul

[Les Cargill]

Paul Stamler wrote:
> "Serge Stodolnik" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
>>inside acoustic guitar?
>>Which capsule?
>>Omni or unidirectional?
>
>
> I've been using, of all things, an omni miniature condenser from Radio Shack
> in my guitar for about ten years. It's attached to the brace under the
> fingerboard, with the microphone directly under the high E string, attached
> by sticky goo (3M Strip-Calk). The mic's battery pack is attached by Velcro
> to the inside back of the guitar, under the soundhole, so I can reach in to
> turn it on and off, or detach it to change batteries. The wire is connected
> to an endpin jack. I use a 1/4" - XLR adapter with pin 2 connected to tip
> and pin 3 connected to sleeve, nothing connected to pin 1.
>
> I swiped the method and placement from Martin Carthy, because we have
> similar guitars (his a 000-18, mine a 00-18). It gives something of a
> "smile" curve but it works well and can be EQd reasonably flat. The more
> recent mini-mics from the Shack have more of a high-frequency peak and I
> don't know how well they'd work, but they're so cheap you should try one
> out. Placement is critical, though; move the mic under the B string instead
> of the high E and it sounds godawful, like it's been run through a
> phase-shifter.
>
> Attaching the mic to the brace is crucial; I first tried isolating it with
> Velcro and it sounded awful. One of the secrets is conduction.
>

How is it oriented at the attachment point?

> Peace,
> Paul
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[hank alrich]

Willie K. Yee, MD wrote:

> On 3 Feb 2007 22:48:31 -0800, "Nate Najar" wrote:
>
> >my only experience is with the akg 419 (i think). Don't use it for
> >critical studio recording, but blended with an undersaddle pickup it
> >works very well. Greg at Pendulum audio has a good blender for it.
> >The problem is mounting it securely and finding good placement. THe
> >other thing is that, well, it sounds like the inside of the guitar.

> What does that sound like?

It sounds unlike what we appreciate about the sound of a guitar. A
closely mounted external mic works much better.

> I've never been inside a guitar.

Maybe you need a bigger guitar?

--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[Geoff]

Les Cargill wrote:
> Paul Stamler wrote:
>> "Serge Stodolnik" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>> Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
>>> inside acoustic guitar?
>>> Which capsule?
>>> Omni or unidirectional?
>>
>>
>> I've been using, of all things, an omni miniature condenser from
>> Radio Shack in my guitar for about ten years. It's attached to the

>> Attaching the mic to the brace is crucial; I first tried isolating
>> it with Velcro and it sounded awful. One of the secrets is
>> conduction.
>
> How is it oriented at the attachment point?

The Fishman one mounts on a integral gooseneck, which can be
position-adjusted for best sound . You can also blend between the mic and a
piezo.


geoff

[Paul Stamler]

"Les Cargill" > wrote in message
...
> > I've been using, of all things, an omni miniature condenser from Radio
Shack
> > in my guitar for about ten years. It's attached to the brace under the
> > fingerboard, with the microphone directly under the high E string,
attached
> > by sticky goo (3M Strip-Calk). The mic's battery pack is attached by
Velcro
> > to the inside back of the guitar, under the soundhole, so I can reach in
to
> > turn it on and off, or detach it to change batteries. The wire is
connected
> > to an endpin jack. I use a 1/4" - XLR adapter with pin 2 connected to
tip
> > and pin 3 connected to sleeve, nothing connected to pin 1.
> >
> > I swiped the method and placement from Martin Carthy, because we have
> > similar guitars (his a 000-18, mine a 00-18). It gives something of a
> > "smile" curve but it works well and can be EQd reasonably flat. The more
> > recent mini-mics from the Shack have more of a high-frequency peak and I
> > don't know how well they'd work, but they're so cheap you should try one
> > out. Placement is critical, though; move the mic under the B string
instead
> > of the high E and it sounds godawful, like it's been run through a
> > phase-shifter.
> >
> > Attaching the mic to the brace is crucial; I first tried isolating it
with
> > Velcro and it sounded awful. One of the secrets is conduction.
> >
>
> How is it oriented at the attachment point?

Parallel to the brace, pointing at the lower strings (upwards as seen from
the front, if you could see through wood).

Peace,
Paul

[Les Cargill]

Geoff wrote:

> Les Cargill wrote:
>
>>Paul Stamler wrote:
>>
>>>"Serge Stodolnik" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anybody had any experience with placing Condenser mic
>>>>inside acoustic guitar?
>>>>Which capsule?
>>>>Omni or unidirectional?
>>>
>>>
>>>I've been using, of all things, an omni miniature condenser from
>>>Radio Shack in my guitar for about ten years. It's attached to the
>
>
>>>Attaching the mic to the brace is crucial; I first tried isolating
>>>it with Velcro and it sounded awful. One of the secrets is
>>>conduction.
>>
>>How is it oriented at the attachment point?
>
>
> The Fishman one mounts on a integral gooseneck, which can be
> position-adjusted for best sound . You can also blend between the mic and a
> piezo.
>
>
> geoff
>
>
At least that's an improvement over the old internal mic they sold
years back, with the foil covering.

The K&K Trinity is similar to that.

--
Les Cargill