Recording audio for acoustic set video

[denovo]

I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
room. Kind of like what you see here:

http://www.kylerengland.com

I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
the field of view.

I was thinking about setting up two Oktava MK-012s just to the left
and right of the camera and then just recording what those mics
"hear." I'll also have the guitar(s) onboard pickups running into the
DAW as well.

I'll also supplement the whole thing with a stereo Radio Shack
lavalier taped to something in the field of view but hidden discreetly
somewhere up front.

Comments or suggestions?

I also have a MXL V69ME and a Studio Projects TB3 at my disposal. As
well as one more MK-012 and a SM57.

Thanks

Charles

[VainGlorious]

On 29 Jan 2007 15:18:49 -0800, "denovo" > wrote:

>I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
>room. Kind of like what you see here:
>
>http://www.kylerengland.com
>
>I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
>upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
>without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
>the field of view.
>
>I was thinking about setting up two Oktava MK-012s just to the left
>and right of the camera and then just recording what those mics
>"hear." I'll also have the guitar(s) onboard pickups running into the
>DAW as well.
>
>I'll also supplement the whole thing with a stereo Radio Shack
>lavalier taped to something in the field of view but hidden discreetly
>somewhere up front.
>
>Comments or suggestions?
>
>I also have a MXL V69ME and a Studio Projects TB3 at my disposal. As
>well as one more MK-012 and a SM57.

If the goal is to have a video/audio project of this singer singing
her song in a nice warm room, why not do it "pop video" style?

First, do a nice 48KHz audio capture of her performance on your DAW.
Mix, edit, master. Agree on the final product.

Then set up your camera. Cobble together some nice back lighting and
key lighting. (Google for video lighting tips). Then play her recorded
song project in the room and have her play and sing to it.

Then, in your video NLE, paste in the audio project and dispose of
(mute) the camera audio. There you go. Awesome audio quality and nice
moody camera work. You may even want to capture multiple camera angles
(rather than just one) and do some fades and cuts n' stuff.

A video like that will put her head and shoulders (and lovely they
are!) over the youtubers.

Rock it.

- TR

[denovo]

On Jan 29, 8:40 pm, VainGlorious >
wrote:
> On 29 Jan 2007 15:18:49 -0800, "denovo" > wrote:
>
>
>
> >I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
> >room. Kind of like what you see here:
>
> >http://www.kylerengland.com
>
> >I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
> >upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
> >without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
> >the field of view.
>
> >I was thinking about setting up two Oktava MK-012s just to the left
> >and right of the camera and then just recording what those mics
> >"hear." I'll also have the guitar(s) onboard pickups running into the
> >DAW as well.
>
> >I'll also supplement the whole thing with a stereo Radio Shack
> >lavalier taped to something in the field of view but hidden discreetly
> >somewhere up front.
>
> >Comments or suggestions?
>
> >I also have a MXL V69ME and a Studio Projects TB3 at my disposal. As
> >well as one more MK-012 and a SM57.If the goal is to have a video/audio project of this singer singing
> her song in a nice warm room, why not do it "pop video" style?
>
> First, do a nice 48KHz audio capture of her performance on your DAW.
> Mix, edit, master. Agree on the final product.
>
> Then set up your camera. Cobble together some nice back lighting and
> key lighting. (Google for video lighting tips). Then play her recorded
> song project in the room and have her play and sing to it.
>
> Then, in your video NLE, paste in the audio project and dispose of
> (mute) the camera audio. There you go. Awesome audio quality and nice
> moody camera work. You may even want to capture multiple camera angles
> (rather than just one) and do some fades and cuts n' stuff.
>
> A video like that will put her head and shoulders (and lovely they
> are!) over the youtubers.
>
> Rock it.
>
> - TR

Thanks for the tip. However the idea is to have something to show
potential buyers that you can do this "live" and it's really for me
and my EPK of sorts. Not her. She obviously can do this...I might
need to convince folks ;-)

Charles

[Ian Bell]

denovo wrote:

> I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
> room. Kind of like what you see here:
>
> http://www.kylerengland.com
>
> I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
> upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
> without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
> the field of view.
>

If you really want to do the 'live' thing then you need to pay much more
attention to the room acoustics than the example you gave - my advice would
be do the old fashioned TV thing - hang a cardioid over her head just out
of camera pointing down.

Ian

[Thomas Bishop]

"denovo" > wrote in message
> Thanks for the tip. However the idea is to have something to show
> potential buyers that you can do this "live" and it's really for me
> and my EPK of sorts. Not her. She obviously can do this...I might
> need to convince folks ;-)

If you are trying to sell this idea then you want it done right. Hire a
professional. I read that REM played a lot of their first music videos
live, although I don't know if there's any truth to that. But if it is true
then I would bet that Michael Stipe didn't have a buddy point a couple of
condensors at the group and try to reinforce with Radio Shack lavs. I'm not
trying to be rude here, just illustrating my point.

If you do decide to do it yourself then you may consider renting some
microphones. Some decent quality PZM's and/or shotguns may do well.

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:37:25 -0500, Ian Bell wrote
(in article <45befb40.0@entanet>):

> denovo wrote:
>
>> I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
>> room. Kind of like what you see here:
>>
>> http://www.kylerengland.com
>>
>> I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
>> upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
>> without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
>> the field of view.
>>
>
> If you really want to do the 'live' thing then you need to pay much more
> attention to the room acoustics than the example you gave - my advice would
> be do the old fashioned TV thing - hang a cardioid over her head just out
> of camera pointing down.
>
> Ian

Or do what I did in my Youtube video. Link below.

Regards,

Ty Ford


--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[Richard Crowley]

"denovo" wrote ...
> Thanks for the tip. However the idea is to have something to show
> potential buyers that you can do this "live" and it's really for me
> and my EPK of sorts. Not her. She obviously can do this...I might
> need to convince folks ;-)

In that case, visible microphone(s) would seem like a positive
indication that the video was live to tape rather than dubbed.

[denovo]

Which was Mr. Genius RAPer? ;-)

That's exactly it!! How did you handle the audio portion of it, Mr.
Ford?

On Jan 30, 7:17 am, Ty Ford > wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 02:37:25 -0500, Ian Bell wrote
> (in article <45befb40.0@entanet>):
>
>
>
> > denovo wrote:
>
> >> I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
> >> room. Kind of like what you see here:
>
> >>http://www.kylerengland.com
>
> >> I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
> >> upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
> >> without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
> >> the field of view.
>
> > If you really want to do the 'live' thing then you need to pay much more
> > attention to the room acoustics than the example you gave - my advice would
> > be do the old fashioned TV thing - hang a cardioid over her head just out
> > of camera pointing down.
>
> > IanOr do what I did in my Youtube video. Link below.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
> Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[denovo]

On Jan 30, 11:02 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "denovo" wrote ...
>
> > Thanks for the tip. However the idea is to have something to show
> > potential buyers that you can do this "live" and it's really for me
> > and my EPK of sorts. Not her. She obviously can do this...I might
> > need to convince folks ;-)In that case, visible microphone(s) would seem like a positive
> indication that the video was live to tape rather than dubbed.

That's a good point...

[denovo]

On Jan 30, 1:37 am, Ian Bell > wrote:
> denovo wrote:
> > I'm about to record some video for a brief acoustic set in my living
> > room. Kind of like what you see here:
>
> >http://www.kylerengland.com
>
> > I was wondering how I should go about doing this without impinging
> > upon the visual experience. So I would preferably like to do this
> > without setting up a bunch of condenser vocal and instrument mics in
> > the field of view.If you really want to do the 'live' thing then you need to pay much more
> attention to the room acoustics than the example you gave - my advice would
> be do the old fashioned TV thing - hang a cardioid over her head just out
> of camera pointing down.
>
> Ian

I considered this - but I thought it would be amateur...I'm gonna find
myself a boom....

C

[Richard Crowley]

"denovo" wrote ...
> Ian Bell wrote:
>> If you really want to do the 'live' thing then you need to pay much more
>> attention to the room acoustics than the example you gave - my advice
>> would
>> be do the old fashioned TV thing - hang a cardioid over her head just out
>> of camera pointing down.
>
> I considered this - but I thought it would be amateur...I'm gonna find
> myself a boom....

I have video of Andres Segovia with a huge LDC sitting a couple
feet away from his instrument. HE didn't think the visiblity of the
microphone was a distraction. I didn't either.

[denovo]

On Jan 30, 12:01 pm, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "denovo" wrote ...
>
> > Ian Bell wrote:
> >> If you really want to do the 'live' thing then you need to pay much more
> >> attention to the room acoustics than the example you gave - my advice
> >> would
> >> be do the old fashioned TV thing - hang a cardioid over her head just out
> >> of camera pointing down.
>
> > I considered this - but I thought it would be amateur...I'm gonna find
> > myself a boom....I have video of Andres Segovia with a huge LDC sitting a couple
> feet away from his instrument. HE didn't think the visiblity of the
> microphone was a distraction. I didn't either.

Yes, please don't misunderstand. I am reconsidering the cardioid over
the head strategy. I only meant to say that I thought that might work
better with a boom over my head.

But I am also re-thinking the mics in front think. That V69 sure
looks good on camera ;-)

Charles

[Scott Dorsey]

denovo > wrote:
>
>
>I considered this - but I thought it would be amateur...I'm gonna find
>myself a boom....

The keys:

1. The best pattern microphone you can find. The narrower the pattern, the
farther you can pull it back without room problems being an issue. The
Schoeps hypercardiods are sort of the industry standard for the job and
they can be rented for surprisingly reasonable prices.

2. The best room you can find. You want the room to be dead, but since no
room is really dead, you want the ambience that you do have to be the best
sounding ambience you can have.

3. The right placement. Balancing the guitar and vocal sounds can be
an adventure, especially for a performer not used to playing acoustically
who relies normally on a vocal spot mike to reinforce his or her voice.
But you can do it, it just takes some time.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Richard Crowley]

"Scott Dorsey" wrote ...
> 3. The right placement. Balancing the guitar and vocal sounds can be
> an adventure, especially for a performer not used to playing
> acoustically
> who relies normally on a vocal spot mike to reinforce his or her voice.
> But you can do it, it just takes some time.

But I would think that this will range from very tricky to
impossible if "denovo" wants to keep the mic(s) out of
the frame.

I would not even attempt it. If they want no visible mics,
then the sound will be compromised by definition. Especially
if the camera is going to move and/or zoom out.

[Ty Ford]

On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:38:05 -0500, denovo wrote
(in article . com>):

> Which was Mr. Genius RAPer? ;-)
>
> That's exactly it!! How did you handle the audio portion of it, Mr.
> Ford?

Mr. Denovo,

By keeping it really simple. I shot that with a Canon XL2 straight to a Mac
laptop using iMovie HD. A Countryman E6 mic on my left ear/cheek to one track
and a Schoeps sitting on the couch arm rest to the other track.

That let my voice track (heard at the beginning and end) be separate from the
guitar mic so I didn't have any phasing problems.

As long as you don't get too close, you won't see the E6. Only one person has
noticed the Schoeps. Probably more would if they saw the piece in full
resolution, but it's not that obvious.

I exported from iMovie to FCP for the lower third titling. I exported the
audio from FCP to Soundtrack Pro to compress, limit, and apply the reverb and
phasing. Then I reimported the audio back into FCP and rendered the whole
piece out in several different resolutions.

Sounds more complicated than it was.

Regards,

Ty Ford



--Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
Acting and Voiceover Demos http://www.tyford.com
Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU

[denovo]

On Jan 30, 4:46 pm, Ty Ford > wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:38:05 -0500, denovo wrote
> (in article . com>):
>
> > Which was Mr. Genius RAPer? ;-)
>
> > That's exactly it!! How did you handle the audio portion of it, Mr.
> > Ford?
>
> Mr. Denovo,
>
> By keeping it really simple. I shot that with a Canon XL2 straight to a Mac
> laptop using iMovie HD. A Countryman E6 mic on my left ear/cheek to one track
> and a Schoeps sitting on the couch arm rest to the other track.
>
> That let my voice track (heard at the beginning and end) be separate from the
> guitar mic so I didn't have any phasing problems.
>
> As long as you don't get too close, you won't see the E6. Only one person has
> noticed the Schoeps. Probably more would if they saw the piece in full
> resolution, but it's not that obvious.
>
> I exported from iMovie to FCP for the lower third titling. I exported the
> audio from FCP to Soundtrack Pro to compress, limit, and apply the reverb and
> phasing. Then I reimported the audio back into FCP and rendered the whole
> piece out in several different resolutions.
>
> Sounds more complicated than it was.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ty Ford
>
> --Audio Equipment Reviews Audio Production Services
> Acting and Voiceover Demoshttp://www.tyford.com
> Guitar player?:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RZJ9MptZmU


That's just friggin brilliant in it's simplicity...I'll see if I can
do something similar.

Charles