Mic to delay question

[Federico]

Hi
The situation is the following:
I'm currently the FoH engineer for a band.
The singer microphone (Shure SM58 or Audix OM6) runs into a Boss DD-3
http://www.bossus.com/index.asp?pg=1&tmp=14 and then to the mixer.
The cable is unbalanced and the effect output gives me the sum of direct
signal + the delay.
The effect output goes into a DIbox.
I'm not happy with this situation for 2 reasons:
1) When the delay is turned off there is not a true bypass in the DD-3 and
the sound suffers from it.
2) I cannot use any condenser mic since the mic is plugged directly into the
effect and I cannot give phantom power.

I know I can pach the delay in many other ways but this is not an option. I
cannot put "active" gear to fix the problem (such as mixers).
So I would like to do a thing like this:
I split the mic output with a "Y" cable. Let's call the new signals "A" and
"B".
I run "B" through the dealy and I take the wet-only output and sum it to the
"A" signal with another "Y" cable.
I know this is not possible to do since the wet signal would feedback into
the dealy input again.
Question: How can I do this? Can I build a passive mixer in a little box?
Any idea?
F.

[Boris Lau]

Federico wrote:
> I split the mic output with a "Y" cable. Let's call the new signals "A" and
> "B".
> I run "B" through the dealy and I take the wet-only output and sum it to the
> "A" signal with another "Y" cable.

You said there's no mixer available. Do you mean not on stage or not for
the FoH at all?

If you have an additional channel in the snake and the FoH mixer, you
can use different channels for wet and dry on your mixer. Or even
better, feed the mic to the mixer, go back to the stage with an unused
monitor channel, go through the delay and back to the second mixer channel.


Boris



--
http://www.borislau.de - computer science, music, photos

[Arny Krueger]

"Federico" > wrote in message

> Hi
> The situation is the following:
> I'm currently the FoH engineer for a band.
> The singer microphone (Shure SM58 or Audix OM6) runs into
> a Boss DD-3 http://www.bossus.com/index.asp?pg=1&tmp=14
> and then to the mixer. The cable is unbalanced and the effect output gives
> me
> the sum of direct signal + the delay.
> The effect output goes into a DIbox.
> I'm not happy with this situation for 2 reasons:
> 1) When the delay is turned off there is not a true
> bypass in the DD-3 and the sound suffers from it.
> 2) I cannot use any condenser mic since the mic is
> plugged directly into the effect and I cannot give
> phantom power.

BTW, anybody ever measure one of these things to see what their performance
is like?

[TimPerry]

Federico wrote:
> Hi
> The situation is the following:
> I'm currently the FoH engineer for a band.
> The singer microphone (Shure SM58 or Audix OM6) runs into a Boss DD-3
> http://www.bossus.com/index.asp?pg=1&tmp=14 and then to the mixer.
> The cable is unbalanced and the effect output gives me the sum of
> direct signal + the delay.
> The effect output goes into a DIbox.
> I'm not happy with this situation for 2 reasons:
> 1) When the delay is turned off there is not a true bypass in the
> DD-3 and the sound suffers from it.
> 2) I cannot use any condenser mic since the mic is plugged directly
> into the effect and I cannot give phantom power.
>
> I know I can pach the delay in many other ways but this is not an
> option. I cannot put "active" gear to fix the problem (such as
> mixers).
> So I would like to do a thing like this:
> I split the mic output with a "Y" cable. Let's call the new signals
> "A" and "B".
> I run "B" through the dealy and I take the wet-only output and sum it
> to the "A" signal with another "Y" cable.
> I know this is not possible to do since the wet signal would feedback
> into the dealy input again.
> Question: How can I do this? Can I build a passive mixer in a little
> box? Any idea?
> F.

put the guitar pedal on the guitar. obtain a FX unit and place at the mixer.
use an aux send and return to an unused channel.

add FX to monitor mix to placate vocalist.

explain to the egos involved that this is the standard method of running
sound throughout the world.

[hank alrich]

Federico wrote:

> Hi
> The situation is the following:
> I'm currently the FoH engineer for a band.
> The singer microphone (Shure SM58 or Audix OM6) runs into a Boss DD-3
> http://www.bossus.com/index.asp?pg=1&tmp=14 and then to the mixer.
> The cable is unbalanced and the effect output gives me the sum of direct
> signal + the delay.
> The effect output goes into a DIbox.
> I'm not happy with this situation for 2 reasons:
> 1) When the delay is turned off there is not a true bypass in the DD-3 and
> the sound suffers from it.
> 2) I cannot use any condenser mic since the mic is plugged directly into the
> effect and I cannot give phantom power.
>
> I know I can pach the delay in many other ways but this is not an option. I
> cannot put "active" gear to fix the problem (such as mixers).
> So I would like to do a thing like this:
> I split the mic output with a "Y" cable. Let's call the new signals "A" and
> "B".
> I run "B" through the dealy and I take the wet-only output and sum it to the
> "A" signal with another "Y" cable.
> I know this is not possible to do since the wet signal would feedback into
> the dealy input again.
> Question: How can I do this? Can I build a passive mixer in a little box?
> Any idea?
> F.

Buy a Behringer UB501 for cheap. Split the mic with it, feeding the
house and the delay separately.
--
ha
"Iraq" is Arabic for "Vietnam"

[Federico]

The delay is not used as a standard delay.
It is played as an instrument, changing the delay time as a weird effect and
stopping the effect by pressing the pedal.
It have to be on stage and it have to be activated by the singer.
The delay have to be heard in the monitors on stage. Since the band
currently have no personal monitor engineer I think that having 2 separate
signals to deal with can cause trouble.
Not to mention that feeding the delay from the FoH mixer can cause unwanted
noise (the signal will pass the snake for 3 times) and I'll need a reamp box
or at least a impedence adapter.
F.

[TimPerry]

Federico wrote:
> The delay is not used as a standard delay.
> It is played as an instrument, changing the delay time as a weird
> effect and stopping the effect by pressing the pedal.
> It have to be on stage and it have to be activated by the singer.
> The delay have to be heard in the monitors on stage. Since the band
> currently have no personal monitor engineer I think that having 2
> separate signals to deal with can cause trouble.
> Not to mention that feeding the delay from the FoH mixer can cause
> unwanted noise (the signal will pass the snake for 3 times) and I'll
> need a reamp box or at least a impedence adapter.
> F.

use a separate microphone for this "instrument". place it a few feet away
from the clean mic. when the "musician" wants to play he side steps over to
it and does his thing.

your best other alternative is to custom build a bypass pedal which both
input and output of the delay pedal will plug into. this may give a popping
noise when engaged. you may have to follow it with a mute switch / pedal.

[MCruzzer]

TimPerry wrote:
> Federico wrote:
> > The delay is not used as a standard delay.
> > It is played as an instrument, changing the delay time as a weird
> > effect and stopping the effect by pressing the pedal.
> > It have to be on stage and it have to be activated by the singer.
> > The delay have to be heard in the monitors on stage. Since the band
> > currently have no personal monitor engineer I think that having 2
> > separate signals to deal with can cause trouble.
> > Not to mention that feeding the delay from the FoH mixer can cause
> > unwanted noise (the signal will pass the snake for 3 times) and I'll
> > need a reamp box or at least a impedence adapter.
> > F.
>
> use a separate microphone for this "instrument". place it a few feet away
> from the clean mic. when the "musician" wants to play he side steps over to
> it and does his thing.
>
> your best other alternative is to custom build a bypass pedal which both
> input and output of the delay pedal will plug into. this may give a popping
> noise when engaged. you may have to follow it with a mute switch / pedal.

I assume that the microphone is first going through a low-Z to high-Z
transformer, correct?

You could probably use a loop selector or line selector (such as a Boss
LS-2) as a bypass for the DD-3 ... should be quiet (ie, no pops) when
switching lines/loops.

[Paul Babiak]

Federico wrote:
> The delay is not used as a standard delay.
> It is played as an instrument, changing the delay time as a weird effect and
> stopping the effect by pressing the pedal.
> It have to be on stage and it have to be activated by the singer.
> The delay have to be heard in the monitors on stage. Since the band
> currently have no personal monitor engineer I think that having 2 separate
> signals to deal with can cause trouble.
> Not to mention that feeding the delay from the FoH mixer can cause unwanted
> noise (the signal will pass the snake for 3 times) and I'll need a reamp box
> or at least a impedence adapter.
> F.
>
>
Many rack-mounted FX/delay units have a provision for an external
bypass switch (usually foot-operated).

With the delay mounted in your FOH rack, would it be possible to use a
foot-switch on-stage, and use a spare snake line, with appropriate
adapters, to switch the effect in and out?

Just another possibility.....

Paul