Line level shifter Yes or No?

[oli]

I have a synth that has 1/4 inch unbalanced outputs and inputs. I was
planning on using 1/4 inch unbalanced cables to plug these in to my
patchbay (accepts both balanced and unbalanced signals).

Would it be worth it for me to invest in a line level shifter to
convert unbalanced to balanced before going into the batchbay?

Thanks,

Oli

[Richard Crowley]

"oli" wrote ...
>I have a synth that has 1/4 inch unbalanced outputs and inputs. I was
> planning on using 1/4 inch unbalanced cables to plug these in to my
> patchbay (accepts both balanced and unbalanced signals).
>
> Would it be worth it for me to invest in a line level shifter to
> convert unbalanced to balanced before going into the batchbay?

Is there actually a problem you are trying to solve?
Or is it just "free-floating anxiety"? :-)

If it ain't broke, don't attempt to "fix" it.

[Scott Dorsey]

oli > wrote:
>I have a synth that has 1/4 inch unbalanced outputs and inputs. I was
>planning on using 1/4 inch unbalanced cables to plug these in to my
>patchbay (accepts both balanced and unbalanced signals).

That's fine. Just make sure you aren't plugging shortframe plugs into
the patchbay, if you have a regular longframe patchbay.

>Would it be worth it for me to invest in a line level shifter to
>convert unbalanced to balanced before going into the batchbay?

Depends on what you're patching it into. I'd try it without first.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[oli]

free-floating anxiety

Richard Crowley wrote:
> "oli" wrote ...
> >I have a synth that has 1/4 inch unbalanced outputs and inputs. I was
> > planning on using 1/4 inch unbalanced cables to plug these in to my
> > patchbay (accepts both balanced and unbalanced signals).
> >
> > Would it be worth it for me to invest in a line level shifter to
> > convert unbalanced to balanced before going into the batchbay?
>
> Is there actually a problem you are trying to solve?
> Or is it just "free-floating anxiety"? :-)
>
> If it ain't broke, don't attempt to "fix" it.

[oli]

I'll try without.

"That's fine. Just make sure you aren't plugging shortframe plugs into
the patchbay, if you have a regular longframe patchbay"

The patchbay inputs and outputs are DB 25 with bantam plugs for the
routing. Should be ok right?


Scott Dorsey wrote:
> oli > wrote:
> >I have a synth that has 1/4 inch unbalanced outputs and inputs. I was
> >planning on using 1/4 inch unbalanced cables to plug these in to my
> >patchbay (accepts both balanced and unbalanced signals).
>
> That's fine. Just make sure you aren't plugging shortframe plugs into
> the patchbay, if you have a regular longframe patchbay.
>
> >Would it be worth it for me to invest in a line level shifter to
> >convert unbalanced to balanced before going into the batchbay?
>
> Depends on what you're patching it into. I'd try it without first.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

oli > wrote:
>I'll try without.
>
>"That's fine. Just make sure you aren't plugging shortframe plugs into
>the patchbay, if you have a regular longframe patchbay"
>
>The patchbay inputs and outputs are DB 25 with bantam plugs for the
>routing. Should be ok right?

That's fine. The problem comes when people use 1/4" longframe patchbays
and use guitar-style shortframe plugs to go from their instruments right
into the patchbay. This eventually damages the springs in the patchbay.

All bantams are longframe anyway so that's a non-issue there.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[oli]

Lovely thanks!

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> oli > wrote:
> >I'll try without.
> >
> >"That's fine. Just make sure you aren't plugging shortframe plugs into
> >the patchbay, if you have a regular longframe patchbay"
> >
> >The patchbay inputs and outputs are DB 25 with bantam plugs for the
> >routing. Should be ok right?
>
> That's fine. The problem comes when people use 1/4" longframe patchbays
> and use guitar-style shortframe plugs to go from their instruments right
> into the patchbay. This eventually damages the springs in the patchbay.
>
> All bantams are longframe anyway so that's a non-issue there.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Mike Rivers]

oli wrote:

> The patchbay inputs and outputs are DB 25 with bantam plugs for the
> routing. Should be ok right?

Not if you're trying to fit a 1/4" plug into a bantam jack.

Or are you talking about using a snake with a DB25 on the patchbay end
and 1/4" phone plugs on the other end? That could be a problem, but
clarify what's connected to where and with what before I try to
explain.

Hint: All Bantam jacks are two conductor + shield, so they're
inherently balanced. If your patchbay snake is DB-25 to 1/4" TS
(unbalanced) plugs, you're unbalancing all the patchbay jacks.

[oli]

Mike Rivers wrote:
> oli wrote:
>

> Or are you talking about using a snake with a DB25 on the patchbay end
> and 1/4" phone plugs on the other end? That could be a problem, but
> clarify what's connected to where and with what before I try to
> explain.

This is correct. the DB25 will go into the patchbay and the 1/4
unbalanced into the line outs of the instruments. (also some line ins
but not with the same snake)

The Bantam jacks are in the front of the patchbay where I will be
controlling the signal routing.

> Hint: All Bantam jacks are two conductor + shield, so they're
> inherently balanced. If your patchbay snake is DB-25 to 1/4" TS
> (unbalanced) plugs, you're unbalancing all the patchbay jacks.

That does not sound too good...

[Mike Rivers]

oli wrote:

> This is correct. the DB25 will go into the patchbay and the 1/4
> unbalanced into the line outs of the instruments. (also some line ins
> but not with the same snake)

If you only use that set of eight patchbay jacks for unbalanced
instrument outputs, then you won't really be doing any harm. But to
make things more flexible (you might replace an instrument with one
that has a balanced output) I'd suggest that you buy a DB25-TRS snake,
but you might need to do a little custom wiring work, so get one with
soldered-on plugs on the 1/4" end rather than molded plugs.

Most electronically balanced inputs will work fine with a signal just
between tip and ground and with the ring floating. This is what you'd
have if you stuck a TRS plug (from the patchbay snake) into a TS jack
(on the instrument). Some inputs, however, want to see signal between
tip and ring. For those, you'd a jumper between the tip and ring
somewhere, or replace the TRS plug with a TS plug, connecting the wire
that formerly went to the ring to the sleeve (ground). Alternately, you
could modify some bantam patch cables by putting a jumper between ring
and sleeve on both ends, so that they'll unbalance any patchybay input
that you plug them into. Make them a different color than your standard
balanced cables so you won't grab the wrong one and unblance something
that doesn't need to be unbalanced.

[oli]

Thanks that helps.


Mike Rivers wrote:
> oli wrote:
>
> > This is correct. the DB25 will go into the patchbay and the 1/4
> > unbalanced into the line outs of the instruments. (also some line ins
> > but not with the same snake)
>
> If you only use that set of eight patchbay jacks for unbalanced
> instrument outputs, then you won't really be doing any harm. But to
> make things more flexible (you might replace an instrument with one
> that has a balanced output) I'd suggest that you buy a DB25-TRS snake,
> but you might need to do a little custom wiring work, so get one with
> soldered-on plugs on the 1/4" end rather than molded plugs.
>
> Most electronically balanced inputs will work fine with a signal just
> between tip and ground and with the ring floating. This is what you'd
> have if you stuck a TRS plug (from the patchbay snake) into a TS jack
> (on the instrument). Some inputs, however, want to see signal between
> tip and ring. For those, you'd a jumper between the tip and ring
> somewhere, or replace the TRS plug with a TS plug, connecting the wire
> that formerly went to the ring to the sleeve (ground). Alternately, you
> could modify some bantam patch cables by putting a jumper between ring
> and sleeve on both ends, so that they'll unbalance any patchybay input
> that you plug them into. Make them a different color than your standard
> balanced cables so you won't grab the wrong one and unblance something
> that doesn't need to be unbalanced.