Does a high-end system rob you of musical enjoyment?

[D.Kreft]

The question may seem a bit odd, but here's where it's coming from...

When I had a really nice system in my car[1], I noticed that I tended
to enjoy my music a bit *less* at times than I used to. My system
imaged quite well and sounded *really* good with everything from Tower
of Power to Guns 'n' Roses to Dynamixx to Art of Noise, but every once
in a while I would find myself getting sick of the way the system
sounded, so I'd turn it off and drive around in silence for a while[2].


During the majority of the time, when I was actually enjoying my system
for all it was worth, I found myself turning-up my nose at songs I used
to love before I got into the world of high-end audio because the
recording wasn't as good as it "should have been" (this is particularly
true of songs I grew up with---songs from the 60's and 70's). I never
thought the songs sounded bad before, but when you pipe a
less-than-stellar recording through a system designed to be very high
resolution, you wind up hearing all the "crap" that you never knew was
in the recording in the first place because your OEM system never let
you hear it.

I guess you could say that my "innocence was lost" because I could hear
things that I never knew were there before, and I was such a
perfectionist that those songs which I once enjoyed I started to
loathe. Granted, having a high-fidelity system opens up a whole world
of musical information that most people don't even know exists (below
60Hz and above 16kHz), and with that new world comes some really
thrilling moments where the music *feels* as good as it sounds...but in
retrospect, it seems almost sad that I "had" (due to my own
perfectionism) to turn my back on the music of my youth and the
attendant nostalgic feelings.

Then there's the constant feeling of "gotta-get-mo'-betta-equipment"
(which caused me to ride around in silence for a while), which detracts
from the joy of the music, too, but that's probably another thread
altogether. :-)

Can anyone else given even a low-Q resonance with what I'm describing
here? I've found that since I've left the (expensive) world of high-end
car audio, I'm no longer snooty about who's car I'll ride in[3], and I
no longer turn my nose up at good music recorded poorly.

-dan

---- Footnotes

[1] My system was comprised of the following (forgive the lack of model
numbers...I don't remember them all):
1 - Denon CD Player
1 - Sony 10-Disc CD Changer
1 - PrecisionPower (PPI) 5-band quasi-parametric EQ
1 - PPI 2-way XO
1 - PPI 4050AM (50W x 4 @ 4) [mids & highs]
2 - JL Audio REF 100 (50 x 2 @ 4) [subs]
1 - MB Quart 328CS (6.5", 4", 0.75") [front speakers--doors &
dash]
1 - MB Quart 160KX (6.5" coax) [rear speakers]
1 - JL Audio 5.25 coax [center channel]
4 - JL Audio 15W5, isobarically-loaded, ported box

[2] Good thing, too, because it was usually during these silent driving
moments that I would hear very strange noises eminating from my engine
compartment--like the time my water pump went "poo-poo" and I drove
around with it for God knows how long before realizing what was going
on!

[3] Yeah, I was such an audio snob that when my friends and I would go
somewhere, I'd insist we ride in my NON-air conditioned '78 Accord (in
South Florida) instead of a friend's car that was perhaps 10 years
newer and *had* A/C....all because I had a far superior sound system.

[MOSFET]

Dan,

I can certainly relate to most of what you are saying. In particular, I
know what you mean about older recordings and how every flaw can be heard.
I tend to listen to modern techno music so most of the music I listen to
sounds pretty good on my system. But my wife likes The Rolling Stones and
other classic rock music and most of that sounds TERRIBLE on my system.
There is hiss, poor fidelity, a lack of bass AND treble, and a VERY
compressed sound. I hate listenening to it not so much because I don't like
the music, but because of all the flaws that are painfully obvious. It's
funny, though, these flaws do not seem to bother my wife (but she is tone
deaf).

Anyway, if the Rolling Stones (or Classic Rock in general) were my favorite
band/s I would be right there with you in total agreement. As I said
before, what I hate about early Rolling Stones is not the music, but the
flaws I hear on my stereo.

And will admit that there is some music from the 70's and 80's that I liked
as a kid but I have stopped listening to because it sounds poor on my
system.

The other thing I will catch myself doing which detracts from the enjoyment
of my music is the habit I have of constantly "tweaking" the sound. As
well as my HU (Alpine 9853) I have a 7 band Clarion EQ I am CONSTANTLY
fiddling with (from song to song). Even the more advanced functions on the
HU I will adjust on the fly (like adjusting the time-delay of one of my
speakers or adjusting the X-over point of my rear-fill while driving). I
suppose this obsessive nature does detract a little from the simple
enjoyment of the music.

But, more often than not, I simply sit-back and enjoy the music.

Nick

"D.Kreft" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The question may seem a bit odd, but here's where it's coming from...
>
> When I had a really nice system in my car[1], I noticed that I tended
> to enjoy my music a bit *less* at times than I used to. My system
> imaged quite well and sounded *really* good with everything from Tower
> of Power to Guns 'n' Roses to Dynamixx to Art of Noise, but every once
> in a while I would find myself getting sick of the way the system
> sounded, so I'd turn it off and drive around in silence for a while[2].
>
>
> During the majority of the time, when I was actually enjoying my system
> for all it was worth, I found myself turning-up my nose at songs I used
> to love before I got into the world of high-end audio because the
> recording wasn't as good as it "should have been" (this is particularly
> true of songs I grew up with---songs from the 60's and 70's). I never
> thought the songs sounded bad before, but when you pipe a
> less-than-stellar recording through a system designed to be very high
> resolution, you wind up hearing all the "crap" that you never knew was
> in the recording in the first place because your OEM system never let
> you hear it.
>
> I guess you could say that my "innocence was lost" because I could hear
> things that I never knew were there before, and I was such a
> perfectionist that those songs which I once enjoyed I started to
> loathe. Granted, having a high-fidelity system opens up a whole world
> of musical information that most people don't even know exists (below
> 60Hz and above 16kHz), and with that new world comes some really
> thrilling moments where the music *feels* as good as it sounds...but in
> retrospect, it seems almost sad that I "had" (due to my own
> perfectionism) to turn my back on the music of my youth and the
> attendant nostalgic feelings.
>
> Then there's the constant feeling of "gotta-get-mo'-betta-equipment"
> (which caused me to ride around in silence for a while), which detracts
> from the joy of the music, too, but that's probably another thread
> altogether. :-)
>
> Can anyone else given even a low-Q resonance with what I'm describing
> here? I've found that since I've left the (expensive) world of high-end
> car audio, I'm no longer snooty about who's car I'll ride in[3], and I
> no longer turn my nose up at good music recorded poorly.
>
> -dan
>
> ---- Footnotes
>
> [1] My system was comprised of the following (forgive the lack of model
> numbers...I don't remember them all):
> 1 - Denon CD Player
> 1 - Sony 10-Disc CD Changer
> 1 - PrecisionPower (PPI) 5-band quasi-parametric EQ
> 1 - PPI 2-way XO
> 1 - PPI 4050AM (50W x 4 @ 4) [mids & highs]
> 2 - JL Audio REF 100 (50 x 2 @ 4) [subs]
> 1 - MB Quart 328CS (6.5", 4", 0.75") [front speakers--doors &
> dash]
> 1 - MB Quart 160KX (6.5" coax) [rear speakers]
> 1 - JL Audio 5.25 coax [center channel]
> 4 - JL Audio 15W5, isobarically-loaded, ported box
>
> [2] Good thing, too, because it was usually during these silent driving
> moments that I would hear very strange noises eminating from my engine
> compartment--like the time my water pump went "poo-poo" and I drove
> around with it for God knows how long before realizing what was going
> on!
>
> [3] Yeah, I was such an audio snob that when my friends and I would go
> somewhere, I'd insist we ride in my NON-air conditioned '78 Accord (in
> South Florida) instead of a friend's car that was perhaps 10 years
> newer and *had* A/C....all because I had a far superior sound system.
>

[Tony F]

Absolutely yes, Dan.

Instead of enjoying the music, I'd be constantly listening for ways to
improve it, picking out the flaws, hearing every flaw in agonizing pain. I
very rarely just sat back and "enjoyed" my system. I definitely had the
best equipment, and I definitely put in hours upon hours upon hours of labor
getting it to sound "just right". Which, if it happened at all, was very
infrequently and short lived. It's amazing how much you can tweak with a
3-way component system, run actively, with ever parameter controllable via
the head unit PLUS a 60-band EQ.

Now, for the first time in a long, long time, I'm actually enjoying my
system in my Infiniti. It's the stock Bose system. It sounds "pleasantly
good". But I can only control a few things about it, such as balance,
fader, bass & treble, something Bose calls "center point", and rear level
ambience for the small speakers in the backs of the seats near your head.
Since there's not much to adjust, and it sounds fine, I find myself enjoying
it almost 100% of the time. I'm fighting the urge to upgrade the system,
starting with a better sub!!! Then it'll be back to the never ending
scrutinizing again. LOL

Tony


--
2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

2006 Mustang GT Coupe
Alpine IVA-D310 DVD Head Unit, Alpine MRA-550 Digital 5.1 Amp, Boston
Acoustics Z-Series Speakers, Alpine SBS-05DC Center Channel Speaker,
Amplified MTX Thunderform Sub

[Captain_Howdy]

I have never went down the road of high-fidelity systems. I have few friends
that set up their systems that way, spending more time playing around
adjusting their systems with an rta meters then enjoying their music. When I
get in their cars, all that I hear is rip'in loud tweeters and I can't stand
it. I have always setup my systems by hear, most times it might take about a
week to get it right when I change something in my system, but unlike my
friends I can honestly say that I like the way my system sounds with anything
that I plug into it, from 3 six mafia to the rolling stones with the aid of my
Epicenter for the older recordings. I have been told that my system sounds
like a Kiss concert, good or bad I don't know but I like it.


In article om>, "D.Kreft"
> wrote:
>The question may seem a bit odd, but here's where it's coming from...
>
>When I had a really nice system in my car[1], I noticed that I tended
>to enjoy my music a bit *less* at times than I used to. My system
>imaged quite well and sounded *really* good with everything from Tower
>of Power to Guns 'n' Roses to Dynamixx to Art of Noise, but every once
>in a while I would find myself getting sick of the way the system
>sounded, so I'd turn it off and drive around in silence for a while[2].
>
>
>During the majority of the time, when I was actually enjoying my system
>for all it was worth, I found myself turning-up my nose at songs I used
>to love before I got into the world of high-end audio because the
>recording wasn't as good as it "should have been" (this is particularly
>true of songs I grew up with---songs from the 60's and 70's). I never
>thought the songs sounded bad before, but when you pipe a
>less-than-stellar recording through a system designed to be very high
>resolution, you wind up hearing all the "crap" that you never knew was
>in the recording in the first place because your OEM system never let
>you hear it.
>
>I guess you could say that my "innocence was lost" because I could hear
>things that I never knew were there before, and I was such a
>perfectionist that those songs which I once enjoyed I started to
>loathe. Granted, having a high-fidelity system opens up a whole world
>of musical information that most people don't even know exists (below
>60Hz and above 16kHz), and with that new world comes some really
>thrilling moments where the music *feels* as good as it sounds...but in
>retrospect, it seems almost sad that I "had" (due to my own
>perfectionism) to turn my back on the music of my youth and the
>attendant nostalgic feelings.
>
>Then there's the constant feeling of "gotta-get-mo'-betta-equipment"
>(which caused me to ride around in silence for a while), which detracts
>from the joy of the music, too, but that's probably another thread
>altogether. :-)
>
>Can anyone else given even a low-Q resonance with what I'm describing
>here? I've found that since I've left the (expensive) world of high-end
>car audio, I'm no longer snooty about who's car I'll ride in[3], and I
>no longer turn my nose up at good music recorded poorly.
>
>-dan
>
>---- Footnotes
>
>[1] My system was comprised of the following (forgive the lack of model
>numbers...I don't remember them all):
> 1 - Denon CD Player
> 1 - Sony 10-Disc CD Changer
> 1 - PrecisionPower (PPI) 5-band quasi-parametric EQ
> 1 - PPI 2-way XO
> 1 - PPI 4050AM (50W x 4 @ 4) [mids & highs]
> 2 - JL Audio REF 100 (50 x 2 @ 4) [subs]
> 1 - MB Quart 328CS (6.5", 4", 0.75") [front speakers--doors &
>dash]
> 1 - MB Quart 160KX (6.5" coax) [rear speakers]
> 1 - JL Audio 5.25 coax [center channel]
> 4 - JL Audio 15W5, isobarically-loaded, ported box
>
>[2] Good thing, too, because it was usually during these silent driving
>moments that I would hear very strange noises eminating from my engine
>compartment--like the time my water pump went "poo-poo" and I drove
>around with it for God knows how long before realizing what was going
>on!
>
>[3] Yeah, I was such an audio snob that when my friends and I would go
>somewhere, I'd insist we ride in my NON-air conditioned '78 Accord (in
>South Florida) instead of a friend's car that was perhaps 10 years
>newer and *had* A/C....all because I had a far superior sound system.
>

[Mariachi]

Yes, the more high quality your sound system is... the more you can
notice how low quality your music really sounds. This is why I like
techno, electronica, and classical (because I like well filtered
music). I like some rock and metal, but most of it sounds too muffled.
Some of this is because most rock bands tend to not care on how they
record their music. If they can filter it well, rock can sound really
good on a CD. Think about it; in rock, you have cymbals crashing, 4
guitars playing, 5 singers singing, and drums pounding all at the same
time. Currently, even a regular CD does not have the capability to
store all those sound effects and make it sound good. This is why some
CD's like modern soft rock (Los Lonely Boys) sound better (sound
quality wise) than heavy metal like Linkin park on high quality sound
systems. On a regular boombox, you can't recognize the difference
because it all sounds like crap and you focus more on the music than in
the quality. But in high sound quality systems, you expect better
sound and therefore get really disappointed when it doesn't sound the
way you want it to. There is a solution to this... it's called
DVD-audio. DVD-audio features 24-bit 192,000 hz stereo sound and has
the ability to store more sound than ever. DVD-audio is designed to
satisfy audiophiles' cravings and is made for high-end systems. But
currently, most people think that CD-audio is good enough for now.

[GregS]

In article om>, "D.Kreft" > wrote:
>The question may seem a bit odd, but here's where it's coming from...
>
>When I had a really nice system in my car[1], I noticed that I tended
>to enjoy my music a bit *less* at times than I used to. My system
>imaged quite well and sounded *really* good with everything from Tower
>of Power to Guns 'n' Roses to Dynamixx to Art of Noise, but every once
>in a while I would find myself getting sick of the way the system
>sounded, so I'd turn it off and drive around in silence for a while[2].

The better the system, the more variations you will hear. Period.

I loved the way rock sounded when I had a homemade pair of Altec A7's
Sounded more like a concert or live performance.

For me, reproducing sound was never the most important thing, I wanted it to
sound like live band in my room.

greg

[mfreak]

With high end systems, you always hear what's *wrong* with a track..
Bad mixes and masters become more apparent to the listener. So if I'm
listening to something on a high end system, the production quality
becomes a significant factor in whether I like a song or not. I no
longer am listening for my favorite music, I'm listening for how well
it's recorded. What's 'good and bad' is defined differently. I'll pass
on my favorite bands if the tracking, mixing, or mastering sucks, where
I'd be happy obliviously listening to it on a POS, so in that sense,
you occassionally lose a little.. OTOH, I'll happily listen to music
of a genre I'm not normally interested in if the production is
spectacular, so I gain a little there instead. Now put it together,
and get me an outstanding production of my favorite artists, THAT'S a
priceless experience! You come out ahead overall IMO,

[MOSFET]

, I'll happily listen to music
> of a genre I'm not normally interested in if the production is
> spectacular,

This is a good point. I feel the same way. For instance I've been
listening to some really well recorded jazz lately. However, I've never
been much of a jazz fan. It isn't that I'm listening to this jazz SOLELY
because of the recording quality, I AM enjoying the music, but I probably
would never have given it a try if I didn't have a really good system.

MOSFET

[Tony F]

"For me, reproducing sound was never the most important thing, I wanted it
to sound like live band in my room."

Yeah, I think that's our point. Sounds like reproducing sound was very
important to you, too.

Tony

[Captain_Howdy]

It sounds as if you all drove dump trucks you all would date nothing but fat
chicks.


In article >, "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>, I'll happily listen to music
>> of a genre I'm not normally interested in if the production is
>> spectacular,
>
>This is a good point. I feel the same way. For instance I've been
>listening to some really well recorded jazz lately. However, I've never
>been much of a jazz fan. It isn't that I'm listening to this jazz SOLELY
>because of the recording quality, I AM enjoying the music, but I probably
>would never have given it a try if I didn't have a really good system.
>
>MOSFET
>
>

[D.Kreft]

On Jan 22, 2:52 pm, (Captain_Howdy) wrote:

> It sounds as if you all drove dump trucks you all would date nothing but fat
> chicks.

What's wrong with fat chicks?

-dan

[Captain_Howdy]

Nothing, if that's your kind of verbooty.
>
>What's wrong with fat chicks?
>
>-dan
>