Interesting toy

[Jenn]

At a conference last week, the Roland booth was displaying this:
http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/

Seems like a very useful thing for certain applications. Someone
recorded my concert using the thing's built in mic. Pretty impressive!

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message


> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
> displaying this: http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/

This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless to say, this isn't the
best, the worst, the cheapest, or the most expensive.

> Seems like a very useful thing for certain applications.

As are its competition.

> Someone recorded my concert using the thing's built in
> mic. Pretty impressive!

At our club meeting someone played a live concert recording made with this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html

It was a bootleg recording, but not bad.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
>
> > At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
> > displaying this: http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
>
> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless to say, this isn't the
> best, the worst, the cheapest, or the most expensive.

Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?

>
> > Seems like a very useful thing for certain applications.
>
> As are its competition.
>
> > Someone recorded my concert using the thing's built in
> > mic. Pretty impressive!
>
> At our club meeting someone played a live concert recording made with this:
>
> http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html
>
> It was a bootleg recording, but not bad.

It's about $100 more than than the Roland. It would be interesting to
see how the sound compares.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>
>>> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
>>> displaying this: http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
>>
>> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless to
>> say, this isn't the best, the worst, the cheapest, or
>> the most expensive.
>
> Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?

I have no idea.

>>> Seems like a very useful thing for certain applications.
>>
>> As are its competition.
>>
>>> Someone recorded my concert using the thing's built in
>>> mic. Pretty impressive!
>>
>> At our club meeting someone played a live concert
>> recording made with this:
>>
>> http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html
>>
>> It was a bootleg recording, but not bad.

> It's about $100 more than than the Roland.

I believe street prices are closer.

> It would be interesting to see how the sound compares.

That's probably their area of greatest similarity, were one to the do the
comparison properly.

Here's a relevant article:

http://www.rolandus.com/uploads/CMS/Downloads/1921/ny_times_2006_09_21.pdf

[Arny Krueger]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>

>> It's about $100 more than than the Roland.
>
> I believe street prices are closer.
>
>> It would be interesting to see how the sound compares.
>
> That's probably their area of greatest similarity, were
> one to the do the comparison properly.
>
> Here's a relevant article:

> http://www.rolandus.com/uploads/CMS/Downloads/1921/ny_times_2006_09_21.pdf

The NYT article makes an important point - the mic inputs on the Roland lack
phantom power.

The mic inputs on the M-Audio are not up to the highest standard for phantom
power, but many have good luck with them.

I seem to recall that the Marantz is A-OK.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> com
> >>
> >>> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
> >>> displaying this: http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
> >>
> >> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless to
> >> say, this isn't the best, the worst, the cheapest, or
> >> the most expensive.
> >
> > Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?
>
> I have no idea.

Then how do you know that the Roland (for example) isn't the best?

>
> >>> Seems like a very useful thing for certain applications.
> >>
> >> As are its competition.
> >>
> >>> Someone recorded my concert using the thing's built in
> >>> mic. Pretty impressive!
> >>
> >> At our club meeting someone played a live concert
> >> recording made with this:
> >>
> >> http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MicroTrack2496-main.html
> >>
> >> It was a bootleg recording, but not bad.
>
> > It's about $100 more than than the Roland.
>
> I believe street prices are closer.

Yep.

>
> > It would be interesting to see how the sound compares.
>
> That's probably their area of greatest similarity, were one to the do the
> comparison properly.
>
> Here's a relevant article:
>
> http://www.rolandus.com/uploads/CMS/Downloads/1921/ny_times_2006_09_21.pdf

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> com
>>>>
>>>>> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
>>>>> displaying this:
>>>>> http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
>>>>
>>>> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless to
>>>> say, this isn't the best, the worst, the cheapest, or
>>>> the most expensive.
>>>
>>> Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?

>> I have no idea.

> Then how do you know that the Roland (for example) isn't
> the best?

Complete lack of phantom power on the mic inputs is a pretty serious black
mark. The internal mics have obvious limitations and just about ever mic
worth using needs phantom power.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> com
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> com
> >>>>
> >>>>> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
> >>>>> displaying this:
> >>>>> http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
> >>>>
> >>>> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless to
> >>>> say, this isn't the best, the worst, the cheapest, or
> >>>> the most expensive.
> >>>
> >>> Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?
>
> >> I have no idea.
>
> > Then how do you know that the Roland (for example) isn't
> > the best?
>
> Complete lack of phantom power on the mic inputs is a pretty serious black
> mark.

Actually, the rep told me that it does have phantom power, and some of
the reviews indicate that it does.

> The internal mics have obvious limitations and just about ever mic
> worth using needs phantom power.

Granted, but I was thinking of applications where internal mics are just
the right thing.

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" > said:


>The mic inputs on the M-Audio are not up to the highest standard for phantom
>power, but many have good luck with them.


Easily fixed.
I have a M-audio USB mobile pre with the same problem.
Turned out they didn't use 6k81, but 8k2 for the phantom DC supply
balancing.........
The on-board SMPS is a bit noisy, though.
Gotta work on that someday.

Also, some decent Panasonic FK caps at the input solved noise problems
in the order of 20 dB less!

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>> message
>>>> .
>>>> com
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >, "Arny
>>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>> y.
>>>>>> com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
>>>>>>> displaying this:
>>>>>>> http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless
>>>>>> to say, this isn't the best, the worst, the
>>>>>> cheapest, or the most expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?
>>
>>>> I have no idea.
>>
>>> Then how do you know that the Roland (for example) isn't
>>> the best?
>>
>> Complete lack of phantom power on the mic inputs is a
>> pretty serious black mark.

> Actually, the rep told me that it does have phantom
> power, and some of the reviews indicate that it does.

I see lots of hedge words, a spec sheet that lists no phantom power, and an
instruction manual that provides a switch for "powered microphones". Putting
it all together, I see support for using low-voltage electret microphones
(1.5-4.5 volts), not industry-standard 48 volt phantom power.

>> The internal mics have obvious limitations and just
>> about ever mic worth using needs phantom power.

> Granted, but I was thinking of applications where
> internal mics are just the right thing.

Some competitive products are said to have better directly-attached
microphones. Furthermore, there are many finer detachable microphones that
are used in similar situations.

[George M. Middius]

The Krooborg shows how to be a "master of the shopping trade".

> > Actually, the rep told me that it does have phantom
> > power, and some of the reviews indicate that it does.

> I see lots of hedge words, a spec sheet that lists no phantom power

No wonder you buy all your junk on ebay. No human salesman would put up with
your krapola for more than ten seconds.






--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >> message
> >> .
> >> com
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>> message
> >>>>
> >>>> y.
> >>>> com
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >, "Arny
> >>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ig
> >>>>>> y.
> >>>>>> com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> At a conference last week, the Roland booth was
> >>>>>>> displaying this:
> >>>>>>> http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This seems to be an exploding marketplace. Needless
> >>>>>> to say, this isn't the best, the worst, the
> >>>>>> cheapest, or the most expensive.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Which one is the best of this type of device, IYO?
> >>
> >>>> I have no idea.
> >>
> >>> Then how do you know that the Roland (for example) isn't
> >>> the best?
> >>
> >> Complete lack of phantom power on the mic inputs is a
> >> pretty serious black mark.
>
> > Actually, the rep told me that it does have phantom
> > power, and some of the reviews indicate that it does.
>
> I see lots of hedge words, a spec sheet that lists no phantom power, and an
> instruction manual that provides a switch for "powered microphones". Putting
> it all together, I see support for using low-voltage electret microphones
> (1.5-4.5 volts), not industry-standard 48 volt phantom power.
>
> >> The internal mics have obvious limitations and just
> >> about ever mic worth using needs phantom power.
>
> > Granted, but I was thinking of applications where
> > internal mics are just the right thing.
>
> Some competitive products are said to have better directly-attached
> microphones. Furthermore, there are many finer detachable microphones that
> are used in similar situations.

OK.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > At a conference last week, the Roland booth was displaying this:
> > http://www.roland.com/products/en/R-09/
> >
> > Seems like a very useful thing for certain applications. Someone
> > recorded my concert using the thing's built in mic. Pretty impressive!
>
> Jenn, how do you feel about audience use of such devices? Would you approve
> of audiophiles expanding their hobby a bit, to perhaps more active
> involement?

An excellent question. Presuming that there is no copyright violation
involved (a major presumption), and presuming that the recordist asks
the permission of the person in charge of the concert, I think that it's
a great idea. The more involvement, the better.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>

>> Some competitive products are said to have better
>> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
>> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
>> similar situations.
>
> OK.

BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a pianist. Please tell me you
think about his web site and recordings:

www.serg.vangennip.com

Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for his videos with a
microtrak, and then plugs them into the videos.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in
> message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
>
> >> Some competitive products are said to have better
> >> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
> >> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
> >> similar situations.
> >
> > OK.
>
> BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a pianist. Please tell me you
> think about his web site and recordings:
>
> www.serg.vangennip.com
>
> Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for his videos with a
> microtrak, and then plugs them into the videos.

I'm only able to hear it on my laptop speakers right now, but given
that, it sounds good. And, he is a FABULOUS pianist for his age.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in
message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in
>> message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> Some competitive products are said to have better
>>>> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
>>>> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
>>>> similar situations.
>>>
>>> OK.
>>
>> BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a
>> pianist. Please tell me you think about his web site and
>> recordings:
>>
>> www.serg.vangennip.com
>>
>> Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for
>> his videos with a microtrak, and then plugs them into
>> the videos.

> I'm only able to hear it on my laptop speakers right now,
> but given that, it sounds good. And, he is a FABULOUS
> pianist for his age.

That was my impression. Thanks for the opinion.

Not a shabby audio technician, either.

[Ruud Broens]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
: In article >,
: "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
:
: > "Jenn" > wrote in
: > message
: >

: > > In article >,
: > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
: > >
: >
: > >> Some competitive products are said to have better
: > >> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
: > >> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
: > >> similar situations.
: > >
: > > OK.
: >
: > BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a pianist. Please tell me you
: > think about his web site and recordings:
: >
: > www.serg.vangennip.com
: >
: > Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for his videos with a
: > microtrak, and then plugs them into the videos.
:
: I'm only able to hear it on my laptop speakers right now, but given
: that, it sounds good. And, he is a FABULOUS pianist for his age.

actually, he's good at lot's of things, languages, math, painting,
hard to beat in a game of billiards, too :-)
a true multi talent

Rudy

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Ruud Broens" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> : In article >,
> : "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> :
> : > "Jenn" > wrote in
> : > message
> : >
>
> : > > In article >,
> : > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> : > >
> : >
> : > >> Some competitive products are said to have better
> : > >> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
> : > >> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
> : > >> similar situations.
> : > >
> : > > OK.
> : >
> : > BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a pianist. Please tell me
> : > you
> : > think about his web site and recordings:
> : >
> : > www.serg.vangennip.com
> : >
> : > Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for his videos with a
> : > microtrak, and then plugs them into the videos.
> :
> : I'm only able to hear it on my laptop speakers right now, but given
> : that, it sounds good. And, he is a FABULOUS pianist for his age.
>
> actually, he's good at lot's of things, languages, math, painting,
> hard to beat in a game of billiards, too :-)
> a true multi talent
>
> Rudy

Neat! I love people like that and I try to spend most of my time with
them.

[Ruud Broens]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
: In article >,
: "Ruud Broens" > wrote:
:
: > "Jenn" > wrote in message
: >

: > ...
: > : In article >,
: > : "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
: > :
: > : > "Jenn" > wrote in
: > : > message
: > : >
: >

: > : > > In article >,
: > : > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
: > : > >
: > : >
: > : > >> Some competitive products are said to have better
: > : > >> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
: > : > >> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
: > : > >> similar situations.
: > : > >
: > : > > OK.
: > : >
: > : > BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a pianist. Please tell me
: > : > you
: > : > think about his web site and recordings:
: > : >
: > : > www.serg.vangennip.com
: > : >
: > : > Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for his videos with a
: > : > microtrak, and then plugs them into the videos.
: > :
: > : I'm only able to hear it on my laptop speakers right now, but given
: > : that, it sounds good. And, he is a FABULOUS pianist for his age.
: >
: > actually, he's good at lot's of things, languages, math, painting,
: > hard to beat in a game of billiards, too :-)
: > a true multi talent
: >
: > Rudy
:
: Neat! I love people like that and I try to spend most of my time with
: them.

Come to NL and i'm sure something can be arranged.
Maybe a few days off in Europe, around the next North Sea Jazz Festival ?

cheers,
Rudy
nb bring guitars with ya, lot's :-)

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Ruud Broens" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> : In article >,
> : "Ruud Broens" > wrote:
> :
> : > "Jenn" > wrote in message
> : >
>
> : > ...
> : > : In article >,
> : > : "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> : > :
> : > : > "Jenn" > wrote in
> : > : > message
> : > : >
> : >
>
> : > : > > In article >,
> : > : > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> : > : > >
> : > : >
> : > : > >> Some competitive products are said to have better
> : > : > >> directly-attached microphones. Furthermore, there are
> : > : > >> many finer detachable microphones that are used in
> : > : > >> similar situations.
> : > : > >
> : > : > > OK.
> : > : >
> : > : > BTW, this guy is a microtrak user and a bit of a pianist. Please tell
> : > : > me
> : > : > you
> : > : > think about his web site and recordings:
> : > : >
> : > : > www.serg.vangennip.com
> : > : >
> : > : > Based on what he says on RAP, he records the audio for his videos
> : > : > with a
> : > : > microtrak, and then plugs them into the videos.
> : > :
> : > : I'm only able to hear it on my laptop speakers right now, but given
> : > : that, it sounds good. And, he is a FABULOUS pianist for his age.
> : >
> : > actually, he's good at lot's of things, languages, math, painting,
> : > hard to beat in a game of billiards, too :-)
> : > a true multi talent
> : >
> : > Rudy
> :
> : Neat! I love people like that and I try to spend most of my time with
> : them.
>
> Come to NL and i'm sure something can be arranged.

Hanging with folks like that is one of the reasons why my life is so
good in conducting and college teaching.

> Maybe a few days off in Europe, around the next North Sea Jazz Festival ?
>
> cheers,
> Rudy
> nb bring guitars with ya, lot's :-)

Sounds good!