This sucks (record cleaner)

[ScottW]

So after cleaning a number of my records with Disc Doctor solutions,
brushes, and my new/used VPI, I had a couple of old records (which
weren't ever the greatest pressings) get noticeably worse after
cleaning. Most are early 70's stuff which was in general a bad time
for US rock labels.
One that got particularly bad was King Crimson Wake of Poseidon on
Atlantic.

It got really noisy so I figured the cleaning must have brought
something up in the groove, either mold release or just plain mold. So
I got some Bugtussel Vinyl-zyme that claims to deal with molds and some
other stuff and Premier Vinyl Record pre-cleaner from Micro Care that
claims to deal with mold release agents.

First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
So I give it a try. What a collossal waste of time and a few bucks.
Spray it on and it beads up...no way it penetrates in the groove. Put a
brush to it to spread and it vaporizes within one or two rotations.
AFAIAC this stuff had no noticeable effect and has very little chance
of ever working for anyone. Its just too volatile to ever get into the
groove.

So then I tried the Bugtussel. At least it can be sprayed on and
evenly spread across the record without evaporating. I gave it the 30
sec to a minute wait per instructions and then removed it followed by a
disc doctor fluid wash/distilled rinse and a play. Pretty
disappointing, I guess my problem on this disc isn't mold.

So...any suggestions besides shelling out $33/album from Classic
Records (isn't much left in their catalog that really catches my eye
since Neil Youngs greatest hits and Allman Bros live at the Filmore I
just ordered. These guys are the premier vinyl producer today IMO,
they have yet to disappoint me, even if the prices are a bit
ridiculous.

ScottW

[MiNe 109]

In article om>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> So after cleaning a number of my records with Disc Doctor solutions,
> brushes, and my new/used VPI, I had a couple of old records (which
> weren't ever the greatest pressings) get noticeably worse after
> cleaning. Most are early 70's stuff which was in general a bad time
> for US rock labels.
> One that got particularly bad was King Crimson Wake of Poseidon on
> Atlantic.
>
> It got really noisy so I figured the cleaning must have brought
> something up in the groove, either mold release or just plain mold. So
> I got some Bugtussel Vinyl-zyme that claims to deal with molds and some
> other stuff and Premier Vinyl Record pre-cleaner from Micro Care that
> claims to deal with mold release agents.
>
> First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
> cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
> designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
> cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
> So I give it a try. What a collossal waste of time and a few bucks.
> Spray it on and it beads up...no way it penetrates in the groove. Put a
> brush to it to spread and it vaporizes within one or two rotations.
> AFAIAC this stuff had no noticeable effect and has very little chance
> of ever working for anyone. Its just too volatile to ever get into the
> groove.
>
> So then I tried the Bugtussel. At least it can be sprayed on and
> evenly spread across the record without evaporating. I gave it the 30
> sec to a minute wait per instructions and then removed it followed by a
> disc doctor fluid wash/distilled rinse and a play. Pretty
> disappointing, I guess my problem on this disc isn't mold.
>
> So...any suggestions besides shelling out $33/album from Classic
> Records (isn't much left in their catalog that really catches my eye
> since Neil Youngs greatest hits and Allman Bros live at the Filmore I
> just ordered. These guys are the premier vinyl producer today IMO,
> they have yet to disappoint me, even if the prices are a bit
> ridiculous.

Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com. Or look for the Hoffman forum
links page.

I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
scrubbing. (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.) My
Nitty Gritty brushes are better suited to spreading the fluid and
pressing it into the grooves than to actual cleaning.

Stephen

[ScottW]

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article om>,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>
> Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
> ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.

I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
on hand right now.


> Or look for the Hoffman forum
> links page.
>
> I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
> mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
> scrubbing.

How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....


> (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)

They are disc doctor brushes.

ScottW

[TT]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> So after cleaning a number of my records with Disc Doctor
solutions,
> brushes, and my new/used VPI, I had a couple of old
records (which
> weren't ever the greatest pressings) get noticeably worse
after
> cleaning. Most are early 70's stuff which was in general
a bad time
> for US rock labels.
> One that got particularly bad was King Crimson Wake of
Poseidon on
> Atlantic.
>
> It got really noisy so I figured the cleaning must have
brought
> something up in the groove, either mold release or just
plain mold. So
> I got some Bugtussel Vinyl-zyme that claims to deal with
molds and some
> other stuff and Premier Vinyl Record pre-cleaner from
Micro Care that
> claims to deal with mold release agents.
>
> First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts
Vertrel line of CF
> cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very
volatile and
> designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a
regular
> cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
> So I give it a try. What a collossal waste of time and a
few bucks.
> Spray it on and it beads up...no way it penetrates in the
groove. Put a
> brush to it to spread and it vaporizes within one or two
rotations.
> AFAIAC this stuff had no noticeable effect and has very
little chance
> of ever working for anyone. Its just too volatile to ever
get into the
> groove.
>
> So then I tried the Bugtussel. At least it can be sprayed
on and
> evenly spread across the record without evaporating. I
gave it the 30
> sec to a minute wait per instructions and then removed it
followed by a
> disc doctor fluid wash/distilled rinse and a play. Pretty
> disappointing, I guess my problem on this disc isn't mold.
>
> So...any suggestions besides shelling out $33/album from
Classic
> Records (isn't much left in their catalog that really
catches my eye
> since Neil Youngs greatest hits and Allman Bros live at
the Filmore I
> just ordered. These guys are the premier vinyl producer
today IMO,
> they have yet to disappoint me, even if the prices are a
bit
> ridiculous.
>
> ScottW


I have used my VPI16.5 for over 12 months now and can't
believe I actually ever played vinyl without one ;-)

Here is a formula for some home brew that works.

To a litre made up of 80% distilled water (not just plain
de-ionised) 20% isopropyl alcohol (available at your local
chemist) add 15 drops of Windex (Australian brand but it is
a blue coloured domestic glass cleaner so has detergent in
it)

10 drop of Kodak 'Photoflow' wetting agent (this breaks the
surface tension of the water so the solution gets into the
grooves)



Now the trick is to really "wet" the LP and let it stand for
minute or so. I use a cheap felt LP cleaner brush to spread
the fluid and help it to get into the grooves. When you
make this stuff and it costs pennies you so can afford to be
extravagant with it as opposed to it costing an arm and a
leg and being too frugal with it and not having it work
properly.

Never allow the machine to keep sucking on a dry record as
it will put static back on.

Really old and dirty LPs I clean 2 or 3 times first and then
I clean an LP every time before playing.



So after all the gunk is removed there should be no pops and
clicks apart from damage. But having said this what I
really want know is what do those "........" (insert
derogatory name of choice here) do to some brand new LPs to
put all that noise on them at the factory :-( I also clean
brand new LPs at twice as well before playing. It may be
the release agent they use in the moulds that is culprit
here but I am unsure.



Hope some of this helps.



Regards TT

[ScottW]

TT wrote:
>
> I have used my VPI16.5 for over 12 months now and can't
> believe I actually ever played vinyl without one ;-)

Agreed, this thing is awesome...I'm curious...instructions say align
the sucker arm so the slot is just to the back a bit. I find doing
this clearly leaves some fluid behind as it is easy to see in the run
out area. So I keep bringing the slot closer to straight down until I
see no fluid left in 2 passes of the arm.

Seems like this has the slot very near straight down and the wand
really vacuum locks onto the album. Seems to work though it is a bit
nerve wracking.
If I back off to where the arm doesn't seem to lock down with vacuum,
it leaves fluid behind no matter how many passes.

ScottW

[TT]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> TT wrote:
> >
> > I have used my VPI16.5 for over 12 months now and can't
> > believe I actually ever played vinyl without one ;-)
>
> Agreed, this thing is awesome...I'm
curious...instructions say align
> the sucker arm so the slot is just to the back a bit. I
find doing
> this clearly leaves some fluid behind as it is easy to see
in the run
> out area. So I keep bringing the slot closer to straight
down until I
> see no fluid left in 2 passes of the arm.
>
> Seems like this has the slot very near straight down and
the wand
> really vacuum locks onto the album. Seems to work though
it is a bit
> nerve wracking.
> If I back off to where the arm doesn't seem to lock down
with vacuum,
> it leaves fluid behind no matter how many passes.
>
> ScottW
>

I have the slot straight down so equal cleaning is done by
both felt pads.

I also made a larger diameter hold down nut. I found that
the small POS supplied would distort the area around the
spindle hole if tightened sufficiently to disallow the LP to
slip on the cork mat.

Another ting to be *very* careful of and really hope some
one from VPI will read this, is that the outer case is made
out of cheap, vinyl covered particle board. So what? Well
any fluid left on the machine will get into the joins and
the stuff will swell up and fall to pieces.

Anyone, please correct me if I am wrong here to think that a
water based liquid cleaning machine would be water proof !
Or are my expectations too high?

Still on the criticism side these cheap, nasty suction tubes
break (shatter) far too easily. e.g leave the tube in place
with the spring under it and close the lid and you will
quickly see what I mean >:-(

Regards TT

[Eeyore]

ScottW wrote:

> First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
> cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
> designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
> cleaner/vacuum to remove them.

Mould release agents ?

I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.

Graham

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
Eeyore > wrote:

> ScottW wrote:
>
> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
>
> Mould release agents ?
>
> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.

That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
them! I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
them. How about older presses?

Stephen

[ScottW]

"TT" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I have the slot straight down so equal cleaning is done by
> both felt pads.

That seems to work best for drying.
>
> I also made a larger diameter hold down nut. I found that
> the small POS supplied would distort the area around the
> spindle hole if tightened sufficiently to disallow the LP to
> slip on the cork mat.

Good idea. I keep meaning to make a label guard/washer
to accomplish the same thing. I feared punching out the
45 plug on some old albums.
>
> Another ting to be *very* careful of and really hope some
> one from VPI will read this, is that the outer case is made
> out of cheap, vinyl covered particle board. So what? Well
> any fluid left on the machine will get into the joins and
> the stuff will swell up and fall to pieces.

I mop up any over spill but I rarely have more than a few
drops. I keep a desk light over the machine so I can see
a wave build in front of the brush. If I spill over the edge
then the othe side lead in gets wet after I just washed it.

>
> Anyone, please correct me if I am wrong here to think that a
> water based liquid cleaning machine would be water proof !
> Or are my expectations too high?

My only gripe...I guess I cleaned too many records without
draing the fluid last night and started blowing dirty water
out the bottom and made a mess under it.

>
> Still on the criticism side these cheap, nasty suction tubes
> break (shatter) far too easily. e.g leave the tube in place
> with the spring under it and close the lid and you will
> quickly see what I mean >:-(

Pivot it to the back before closing.
I give the brushes and tube a good rinse and then
vacuum off every few records. Not quite as meticulous
as Fremers procedure but seems to keep the pads in good
shape.

ScottW

[ScottW]

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Eeyore > wrote:
>
>> ScottW wrote:
>>
>> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
>> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
>> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
>> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
>> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
>>
>> Mould release agents ?
>>
>> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.
>
> That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
> them! I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
> them. How about older presses?

I read years ago that they were needed for recycled vinyl which
was used during the oil embargo era.
Marc has mentioned that at one time some labels were regrinding
old stock LPs to recycle vinyl without removing the labels.
I don't know if this is just vinyl rumor or fact.
All I know is that some of those old Atlantics can really suck!

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...

> In article >,
> Eeyore > wrote:
>
>> ScottW wrote:
>>
>> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
>> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
>> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
>> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
>> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.

>> Mould release agents ?

>> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.

That mold release agents were used to produce LPs was clearly stated by
many sources back in the day of. A google searce seems to find 100's of
references confirming this.

> That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
> them!

Agreed.

> I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
> them.

Better temperature control?

> How about older presses?

Release compound is a mainstay of plastic molding.

However, if there's been a change in technology, that might explain why
Graham wasn't aware of the use of mold release agents in the past.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> Eeyore > wrote:
>>
>>> ScottW wrote:
>>>
>>> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
>>> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile
>>> > and
>>> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
>>> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
>>> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
>>>
>>> Mould release agents ?
>>>
>>> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.
>>
>> That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
>> them! I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
>> them. How about older presses?
>
> I read years ago that they were needed for recycled vinyl which
> was used during the oil embargo era.

Recycling vinyl is an old, old story. Remeber that to some degree LP
production inhereted vinyl molding technology from earlier uses.

> Marc has mentioned that at one time some labels were regrinding
> old stock LPs to recycle vinyl without removing the labels.

AFAIK, really low end applications did this all along. The bottom of the
barrel was scraped more often when 45s were being produced.

> I don't know if this is just vinyl rumor or fact.

Fact.

> All I know is that some of those old Atlantics can really suck!

Cellulose fibers should be detectable. I would expect that if you dissolved
a scrap of record in an appropriate organic solvent, and let it settle out,
the various constituents could be recovered and analyzed.

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Eeyore > wrote:
> >
> >> ScottW wrote:
> >>
> >> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
> >> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
> >> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> >> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
> >> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
> >>
> >> Mould release agents ?
> >>
> >> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.
> >
> > That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
> > them! I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
> > them. How about older presses?
>
> I read years ago that they were needed for recycled vinyl which
> was used during the oil embargo era.
> Marc has mentioned that at one time some labels were regrinding
> old stock LPs to recycle vinyl without removing the labels.
> I don't know if this is just vinyl rumor or fact.
> All I know is that some of those old Atlantics can really suck!

I heard the same. I stopped buying lps for years after a string of
really bad DGs.

Stephen

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > In article >,
> > Eeyore > wrote:
> >
> >> ScottW wrote:
> >>
> >> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
> >> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
> >> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> >> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
> >> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
>
> >> Mould release agents ?
>
> >> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.
>
> That mold release agents were used to produce LPs was clearly stated by
> many sources back in the day of. A google searce seems to find 100's of
> references confirming this.

My search found mostly ads. I hadn't given the subject any real thought
beyond the ads. For all I knew, they were talking about mildew.

Of course, I've had mildewed records.

> > That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
> > them!
>
> Agreed.
>
> > I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
> > them.
>
> Better temperature control?

Yes, and the other variable mentioned was the stamper "mirror finish."

> > How about older presses?
>
> Release compound is a mainstay of plastic molding.
>
> However, if there's been a change in technology, that might explain why
> Graham wasn't aware of the use of mold release agents in the past.

Time to update those ads!

Stephen

[Arny Krueger]

"MiNe 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > Eeyore > wrote:
>> >
>> >> ScottW wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of
>> >> > CF
>> >> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile
>> >> > and
>> >> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
>> >> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
>> >> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.

>> >> Mould release agents ?

>> >> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.

>> That mold release agents were used to produce LPs was clearly stated by
>> many sources back in the day of. A google searce seems to find 100's of
>> references confirming this.

> My search found mostly ads. I hadn't given the subject any real thought
> beyond the ads. For all I knew, they were talking about mildew.

> Of course, I've had mildewed records.

Indeed. I recently wrote of the consequences of my year or so in the Miami
area to my LP collection.

>> > That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
>> > them!

>> Agreed.

>> > I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
>> > them.

>> Better temperature control?

> Yes, and the other variable mentioned was the stamper "mirror finish."

Makes some sense. OTOH, the surface of a LP is mostly a grooved area.

>> > How about older presses?

>> Release compound is a mainstay of plastic molding.

>> However, if there's been a change in technology, that might explain why
>> Graham wasn't aware of the use of mold release agents in the past.
>
> Time to update those ads!

I don't know about that. There's no doubt a ton of legacy LPs out there that
still have mold release compound on them. It is not clear that all
newly-pressed LPs are free of it.

[[email protected]]

ScottW wrote:
> MiNe 109 wrote:
> > In article om>,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
> > ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.
>
> I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
> on hand right now.
>
>
> > Or look for the Hoffman forum
> > links page.
> >
> > I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
> > mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
> > scrubbing.
>
> How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
> to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....
>
>
> > (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)
>
> They are disc doctor brushes.

Which are the best I've used by far.

Your experience runs counter to my own, however, in regards to record
cleaning. No matter what I've used in the past, which is everything
from Discwasher D3 to the Disc Doctor, from a dishrag and soapy water
to a Loricraft RCM, it always improves things at least a little bit.
I've never had a single record sound worse after cleaning, and I've
cleaned several thousand LPs in my life.

The only thing I can think of is contamination...something got into
something that shouldn't be there. I'm sure you retraced your steps,
but this just doesn't sound right.

Boon

[[email protected]]

ScottW wrote:
> "MiNe 109" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > Eeyore > wrote:
> >
> >> ScottW wrote:
> >>
> >> > First I tried the Premier which is based on DuPonts Vertrel line of CF
> >> > cleaners. I had my doubts as these things are usually very volatile and
> >> > designed to dry off quickly with no residue.
> >> > It says it can loosen the mold release agents and allow a regular
> >> > cleaner/vacuum to remove them.
> >>
> >> Mould release agents ?
> >>
> >> I didn't think these were ever used for LP production.
> >
> > That would be rich considering how often record cleaner ads mention
> > them! I found a Hoffman forum post that says modern presses don't use
> > them. How about older presses?
>
> I read years ago that they were needed for recycled vinyl which
> was used during the oil embargo era.
> Marc has mentioned that at one time some labels were regrinding
> old stock LPs to recycle vinyl without removing the labels.
> I don't know if this is just vinyl rumor or fact.
> All I know is that some of those old Atlantics can really suck!

Well, it was told to me by a guy at a record pressing plant who used to
actually do it, so I'd say it's not a rumor.

Boon

[MiNe 109]

In article m>,
wrote:

> ScottW wrote:
> > MiNe 109 wrote:
> > > In article om>,
> > > "ScottW" > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
> > > ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.
> >
> > I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
> > on hand right now.
> >
> >
> > > Or look for the Hoffman forum
> > > links page.
> > >
> > > I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
> > > mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
> > > scrubbing.
> >
> > How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
> > to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....
> >
> >
> > > (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)
> >
> > They are disc doctor brushes.
>
> Which are the best I've used by far.
>
> Your experience runs counter to my own, however, in regards to record
> cleaning. No matter what I've used in the past, which is everything
> from Discwasher D3 to the Disc Doctor, from a dishrag and soapy water
> to a Loricraft RCM, it always improves things at least a little bit.
> I've never had a single record sound worse after cleaning, and I've
> cleaned several thousand LPs in my life.
>
> The only thing I can think of is contamination...something got into
> something that shouldn't be there. I'm sure you retraced your steps,
> but this just doesn't sound right.

The felt "lips" on the Nitty Gritty can get worn or dirty. Could that
happen with a VPI?

Stephen

[[email protected]]

MiNe 109 wrote:
> In article m>,
> wrote:
>
> > ScottW wrote:
> > > MiNe 109 wrote:
> > > > In article om>,
> > > > "ScottW" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
> > > > ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.
> > >
> > > I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
> > > on hand right now.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or look for the Hoffman forum
> > > > links page.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
> > > > mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
> > > > scrubbing.
> > >
> > > How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
> > > to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....
> > >
> > >
> > > > (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)
> > >
> > > They are disc doctor brushes.
> >
> > Which are the best I've used by far.
> >
> > Your experience runs counter to my own, however, in regards to record
> > cleaning. No matter what I've used in the past, which is everything
> > from Discwasher D3 to the Disc Doctor, from a dishrag and soapy water
> > to a Loricraft RCM, it always improves things at least a little bit.
> > I've never had a single record sound worse after cleaning, and I've
> > cleaned several thousand LPs in my life.
> >
> > The only thing I can think of is contamination...something got into
> > something that shouldn't be there. I'm sure you retraced your steps,
> > but this just doesn't sound right.
>
> The felt "lips" on the Nitty Gritty can get worn or dirty. Could that
> happen with a VPI?

Well, I keep a large supply of those felt lips for my NG, and swap them
out pretty regularly. That helps reduce contamination. I used a VPI
16.5 a couple of years ago for a review, and the one flaw for me seemed
to be the ease in which one dirty record could easily contaminate the
next one, and the next one. On a Nitty Gritty, the playing surface
does not touch the "platter." On a VPI, it does. Also, on a VPI, I
found that because of this, it's easy to get the label wet if you use
too much fluid.

That's why I stuck with the Nitty Gritty.

Boon

[ScottW]

wrote:
> ScottW wrote:
> > MiNe 109 wrote:
> > > In article om>,
> > > "ScottW" > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
> > > ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.
> >
> > I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
> > on hand right now.
> >
> >
> > > Or look for the Hoffman forum
> > > links page.
> > >
> > > I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
> > > mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
> > > scrubbing.
> >
> > How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
> > to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....
> >
> >
> > > (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)
> >
> > They are disc doctor brushes.
>
> Which are the best I've used by far.
>
> Your experience runs counter to my own, however, in regards to record
> cleaning. No matter what I've used in the past, which is everything
> from Discwasher D3 to the Disc Doctor, from a dishrag and soapy water
> to a Loricraft RCM, it always improves things at least a little bit.
> I've never had a single record sound worse after cleaning, and I've
> cleaned several thousand LPs in my life.
>
> The only thing I can think of is contamination...something got into
> something that shouldn't be there. I'm sure you retraced your steps,
> but this just doesn't sound right.

I've cleaned a dozen records since and all improved using same brushes
and fluids etc.
I've cleaned this one record at least 3 times now...I think the paper
content swelled due to the exposure to moisture :).

ScottW

[[email protected]]

ScottW wrote:
> wrote:
> > ScottW wrote:
> > > MiNe 109 wrote:
> > > > In article om>,
> > > > "ScottW" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
> > > > ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.
> > >
> > > I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
> > > on hand right now.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Or look for the Hoffman forum
> > > > links page.
> > > >
> > > > I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
> > > > mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
> > > > scrubbing.
> > >
> > > How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
> > > to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....
> > >
> > >
> > > > (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)
> > >
> > > They are disc doctor brushes.
> >
> > Which are the best I've used by far.
> >
> > Your experience runs counter to my own, however, in regards to record
> > cleaning. No matter what I've used in the past, which is everything
> > from Discwasher D3 to the Disc Doctor, from a dishrag and soapy water
> > to a Loricraft RCM, it always improves things at least a little bit.
> > I've never had a single record sound worse after cleaning, and I've
> > cleaned several thousand LPs in my life.
> >
> > The only thing I can think of is contamination...something got into
> > something that shouldn't be there. I'm sure you retraced your steps,
> > but this just doesn't sound right.
>
> I've cleaned a dozen records since and all improved using same brushes
> and fluids etc.
> I've cleaned this one record at least 3 times now...I think the paper
> content swelled due to the exposure to moisture :).
>
> ScottW

I'm sure it's an anomaly. Too bad, though, if it's a recording you
really like.

Boon

[ScottW]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> ScottW wrote:
>> wrote:
>> > ScottW wrote:
>> > > MiNe 109 wrote:
>> > > > In article om>,
>> > > > "ScottW" > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Fremer has an over-the-top record cleaning method you could look at for
>> > > > ideas. I thinks it's on musicangle.com.
>> > >
>> > > I see it. I'll have to give it a try someday. Too many things not
>> > > on hand right now.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Or look for the Hoffman forum
>> > > > links page.
>> > > >
>> > > > I also seem to remember a Greenberg column about the VPI that included
>> > > > mention of a rubber toothed brush that could inflict really heavy
>> > > > scrubbing.
>> > >
>> > > How could they make a narrow enough bristle out of rubber
>> > > to get in a groove? Might not have really been rubber....
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > (I couldn't tell if you had a VPI brush or a Disc Doctor.)
>> > >
>> > > They are disc doctor brushes.
>> >
>> > Which are the best I've used by far.
>> >
>> > Your experience runs counter to my own, however, in regards to record
>> > cleaning. No matter what I've used in the past, which is everything
>> > from Discwasher D3 to the Disc Doctor, from a dishrag and soapy water
>> > to a Loricraft RCM, it always improves things at least a little bit.
>> > I've never had a single record sound worse after cleaning, and I've
>> > cleaned several thousand LPs in my life.
>> >
>> > The only thing I can think of is contamination...something got into
>> > something that shouldn't be there. I'm sure you retraced your steps,
>> > but this just doesn't sound right.
>>
>> I've cleaned a dozen records since and all improved using same brushes
>> and fluids etc.
>> I've cleaned this one record at least 3 times now...I think the paper
>> content swelled due to the exposure to moisture :).
>>
>> ScottW
>
> I'm sure it's an anomaly. Too bad, though, if it's a recording you
> really like.

I've got the best songs on the import Young Persons Guide,
you heard one side of...and the remix CD which is pretty good.
That record was always pretty noisy, it just seemed to
get worse. I've cleaned quite a few with the Bugtussel
vinyl-zyme as pre cleaner followed by disc doctor.
I am not convinced its beneficial but I might as well
use it up while I'm at it. I'm slowly working my
way through my collection. I figure they'll
all be cleaned by 2010 :).

ScottW