From Jenn; please read and consider

[Jenn]

I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
group a better place.

I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
helping.

Thanks,
Jenn

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> group a better place.
>
> I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> helping.

<sigh>

OK, fine. I'll ignore Krooger as long as he doesn't start with me.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> > hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> > group a better place.
> >
> > I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> > that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> > period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> > Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> > Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> > disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> > as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> > see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> > But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> > helping.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jenn
>
> Jenn, you're such a positive individual, I have to go along with this.
>
> Bob Morein
> Dresher, PA
> (215) 646-4894

Great! Let's see if it works!

[Jenn]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
wrote:

> Jenn said:
>
> > I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> > hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> > group a better place.
> >
> > I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> > that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> > period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> > Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> > Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> > disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> > as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> > see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> > But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> > helping.
>
> <sigh>
>
> OK, fine. I'll ignore Krooger as long as he doesn't start with me.

Thanks! I really think that this can be a good group.

[Jenn]

In article >,
Signal > wrote:

> Jenn > wrote:
>
> >> > I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> >> > hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> >> > group a better place.
> >> >
> >> > I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> >> > that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> >> > period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> >> > Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> >> > Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> >> > disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> >> > as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> >> > see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> >> > But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> >> > helping.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Jenn
> >>
> >> Jenn, you're such a positive individual, I have to go along with this.
> >>
> >> Bob Morein
> >> Dresher, PA
> >> (215) 646-4894
> >
> >Great! Let's see if it works!
>
> Been tried 57 times, but one more punt can't hurt.

All we can do is try. The ball is in his court now.

[Sander deWaal]

Jenn > said:

>I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
>hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
>group a better place.
>
>I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
>that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
>period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
>Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
>Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
>disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
>as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
>see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
>But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
>helping.
>
>Thanks,
>Jenn


Jenn,

Just "being your own sweet self" and "preferring the sound of strings
on LP instead of CD" is an insult in Arny's eyes.


But I'll play along as well.
I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
will give this project a 10+ year boost.

In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
like. ;-)

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Jenn]

In article >,
Sander deWaal > wrote:

> Jenn > said:
>
> >I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> >hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> >group a better place.
> >
> >I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> >that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> >period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> >Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> >Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> >disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> >as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> >see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> >But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> >helping.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Jenn
>
>
> Jenn,
>
> Just "being your own sweet self" and "preferring the sound of strings
> on LP instead of CD" is an insult in Arny's eyes.
>
>
> But I'll play along as well.
> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> will give this project a 10+ year boost.
>
> In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
> http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
> like. ;-)

Thanks Sander! I'm really hoping that the group will be better for
this. It's worth a month, I think!

[Arny Krueger]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...

> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> will give this project a 10+ year boost.
>
> In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
> http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
> like. ;-)

Insult ignored. Once.

[dizzy]

Jenn wrote:

>I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
>that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
>period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
>Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
>Arny?

I give it two days.

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" > said:


>"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...

>> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
>> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
>> will give this project a 10+ year boost.

>> In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
>> http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
>> like. ;-)


>Insult ignored. Once.


Jenn, we'd have to define "insult" before we proceed.

This was an attempt by me to be humorous, not insulting.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[Arny Krueger]

"dizzy" > wrote in message
...
> Jenn wrote:
>
>>I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
>>that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
>>period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
>>Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
>>Arny?
>
> I give it two days.

It took no days for the usual suspects to start piling on insults. I think
it is worth the fun for at least a few days, to just point the insults out,
and not respond in kind.

[Arny Krueger]

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
> "Arny Krueger" > said:
>
>
>>"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
>>> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
>>> will give this project a 10+ year boost.
>
>>> In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
>>> http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
>>> like. ;-)
>
>
>>Insult ignored. Once.
>
>
> Jenn, we'd have to define "insult" before we proceed.
>
> This was an attempt by me to be humorous, not insulting.

Having questionable intentions doesn't give you the right to skate free.

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Arny Krueger" > said:
> >
> >
> >>"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> >>> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> >>> will give this project a 10+ year boost.
> >
> >>> In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
> >>> http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
> >>> like. ;-)
> >
> >
> >>Insult ignored. Once.
> >
> >
> > Jenn, we'd have to define "insult" before we proceed.
> >
> > This was an attempt by me to be humorous, not insulting.
>
> Having questionable intentions doesn't give you the right to skate free.

Indeed. We should take intent into account in future exchanges.

Stephen

[Sander deWaal]

"Arny Krueger" > said:


>>>> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
>>>> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
>>>> will give this project a 10+ year boost.

>>>> In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
>>>> http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
>>>> like. ;-)


>>>Insult ignored. Once.


>> Jenn, we'd have to define "insult" before we proceed.

>> This was an attempt by me to be humorous, not insulting.


>Having questionable intentions doesn't give you the right to skate free.


I should have addressed this question to you, not to Jenn.

When is an insult really an insult?

When the intention is there to be insulting (obvious), or when the
receiving party *perceives* something to be an insult?

In the latter case, I'd better cease posting altogether........

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[George M. Middius]

___ ____ said:

> > In addition, I now have room for a family of transients :
> > http://histoire.info.online.fr/images/eniac4.jpeg is what it looked
> > like. ;-)

> Insult ignored. Once.

Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

____ _____ said:

> It took no days for the usual suspects to start piling on insults.

Have you forgotten that the rest of us aren't in on your conspiracy
theories? Please identify "the usual suspects" and the "insults" you've
received since Jenn posted her request.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

MiNe 109 said:

> > > This was an attempt by me to be humorous, not insulting.

> > Having questionable intentions doesn't give you the right to skate free.

> Indeed. We should take intent into account in future exchanges.

Are you suggesting that we all subscribe to a single set of ethical and
moral standards for judging others' behavior? That would be quite
problematical for some of us.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > > > This was an attempt by me to be humorous, not insulting.
>
> > > Having questionable intentions doesn't give you the right to skate free.
>
> > Indeed. We should take intent into account in future exchanges.
>
> Are you suggesting that we all subscribe to a single set of ethical and
> moral standards for judging others' behavior? That would be quite
> problematical for some of us.

Each will inevitably have a single set of standards that may appear to
shift depending on who it is to whom each is responding. One should
strive to infer reasonable intent, especially when a higher common
standard is proposed, as well as displaying a non-judgmental tone in
reply.

Stephen

[George M. Middius]

MiNe 109 said:

> > Are you suggesting that we all subscribe to a single set of ethical and
> > moral standards for judging others' behavior? That would be quite
> > problematical for some of us.

> Each will inevitably have a single set of standards that may appear to
> shift depending on who it is to whom each is responding. One should
> strive to infer reasonable intent, especially when a higher common
> standard is proposed, as well as displaying a non-judgmental tone in
> reply.

I must be obtuse today, but wouldn't adopting "a non-judgmental tone" work
against the very important goal of identifying conspiracies?





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Fella]

George M. Middius wrote:


> --
>
> Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

Render unto caeser, etc.. For one, your sig...

[Powell]

"Jenn" wrote

> I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior.
> I'm sincerely hoping that you'll help me with this project
> which I hope will make this group a better place.
>
With all due respect to your offer of civility, I decline
your offer. You might consider accepting what-is,
Jenn. If Arny interferes with your enjoyment of USEnet
("a better place") you need to change your perspective,.
or not, your choice. :)

[George M. Middius]

Fella said:

> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

> Render unto caeser, etc.. For one, your sig...

For one what?




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Clyde Slick]

George M. Middius a scris:
> Jenn said:
>
> > I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> > hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> > group a better place.
> >
> > I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> > that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> > period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> > Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> > Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> > disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> > as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> > see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> > But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> > helping.
>
> <sigh>
>
> OK, fine. I'll ignore Krooger as long as he doesn't start with me.
>


I'll park the bus in the garage.

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > > Are you suggesting that we all subscribe to a single set of ethical and
> > > moral standards for judging others' behavior? That would be quite
> > > problematical for some of us.
>
> > Each will inevitably have a single set of standards that may appear to
> > shift depending on who it is to whom each is responding. One should
> > strive to infer reasonable intent, especially when a higher common
> > standard is proposed, as well as displaying a non-judgmental tone in
> > reply.
>
> I must be obtuse today, but wouldn't adopting "a non-judgmental tone" work
> against the very important goal of identifying conspiracies?

One would have to walk the fine line between judgment and discernment.
After all, some connections are immediately apparent to some but
incomprehensible to others.

Stephen

[George M. Middius]

MiNe 109 said:

> > I must be obtuse today, but wouldn't adopting "a non-judgmental tone" work
> > against the very important goal of identifying conspiracies?

> One would have to walk the fine line between judgment and discernment.
> After all, some connections are immediately apparent to some but
> incomprehensible to others.

Ah yes -- hormones. Mine are all natural.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...

> I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> will give this project a 10+ year boost.

>> Insult ignored. Once.

> Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.

Irrelevant comment.

> Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> ____ _____ said:
>
>> It took no days for the usual suspects to start piling on insults.
>
> Have you forgotten that the rest of us aren't in on your conspiracy
> theories?

Insult noted.

> Please identify "the usual suspects" and the "insults" you've
> received since Jenn posted her request.

Insult noted

> Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

Insult noted.

[MiNe 109]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > > I must be obtuse today, but wouldn't adopting "a non-judgmental tone" work
> > > against the very important goal of identifying conspiracies?
>
> > One would have to walk the fine line between judgment and discernment.
> > After all, some connections are immediately apparent to some but
> > incomprehensible to others.
>
> Ah yes -- hormones. Mine are all natural.

Smell you later, someone said.

Stephen

[George M. Middius]

Oh dear. It's that "selective editing" routine again.

> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.

> >> Insult ignored. Once.

It appears that your reply preceded Sander's comment. Can you explain this
apparent paradox, Arnii?

> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.

> Irrelevant comment.

Did you just "win" another "debate"?

> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.

So you suddenly find my sig line to be offensive. Heavens to betsy.






--

Unlike yourself, a published "professional audio clown," please note.
-- H. Ferstler, August 2004

[George M. Middius]

The Sensitive Tank lumbers in to RAO.

> > Have you forgotten that the rest of us aren't in on your conspiracy
> > theories?

> Insult noted.

How is that an insult, Arnii? I really want to know. Your conspiracy
theories are a matter of historical record -- at least half a dozen, most
centering on Lord Atkinson.

> > Please identify "the usual suspects" and the "insults" you've
> > received since Jenn posted her request.

> Insult noted

Good grief! Was the word "please" insulting to you?

> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

> Insult noted.

No, my sig line is not an insult. It's mockery. After all these years, it
behooves you to learn what mockery is and how it differs from insults.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
> in message ...
>
> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
>
> >> Insult ignored. Once.
>
> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.
>
> Irrelevant comment.
>
> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
>
> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.

Be above the fray and let the noise die out.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "dizzy" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Jenn wrote:
> >
> >>I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> >>that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> >>period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> >>Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> >>Arny?
> >
> > I give it two days.
>
> It took no days for the usual suspects to start piling on insults. I think
> it is worth the fun for at least a few days, to just point the insults out,
> and not respond in kind.

I agree; go with that. If you will, I predict that the noise will die
out.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> > Please identify "the usual suspects" and the "insults" you've
> > received since Jenn posted her request.
>
> Insult noted

Arny, I really don't get this one, and a few others, at all. I honestly
see no insult here whatsoever.

Can you (or someone else) help me get the logs out of my eyes, so I can
understand what's an insult about this?

Otherwise it appears that anything that's said by anybody is an insult.
I find that insulting to my intelligence.;-)

Can we operate on this definition?

***********************************
in·sult (in-sult')

v., -sult·ed, -sult·ing, -sults.

v.tr.

To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.
See synonyms at offend.
To affront or demean: an absurd speech that insulted the intelligence
of the audience.
************************************

And can we ditch these, as they're considered either obsolete or
archaic, and not in common use today?

************************************
Obsolete. To make an attack on.

v.intr. Archaic.
To behave arrogantly.
To give offense; offend: a speech that was intended to insult.
n. (in'sult')
An offensive action or remark.
*************************************

(Both from http://www.answers.com/topic/insult)

[paul packer]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:34:35 GMT, Jenn
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
>> in message ...
>>
>> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
>> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
>> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
>>
>> >> Insult ignored. Once.
>>
>> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.
>>
>> Irrelevant comment.
>>
>> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
>>
>> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.
>
>Be above the fray and let the noise die out.


Obviously you've never worked in child care, Jenn.

But you're about to get a crash course. Enjoy. :-)

[paul packer]

On 12 Nov 2006 00:28:57 -0800, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> wrote:


>Can you (or someone else) help me get the logs out of my eyes

Actually I think they're beams, Shhhh!

Something to do with Iraq perhaps. All those exploding buildings.

[paul packer]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:35:44 GMT, Jenn
> wrote:

>I predict that the noise will die out.

It usually does after the antagonists have killed each other.

[paul packer]

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:17:19 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
> wrote:

>
>"Powell" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Jenn" wrote
>>
>>> I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior.
>>> I'm sincerely hoping that you'll help me with this project
>>> which I hope will make this group a better place.
>>>
>> With all due respect to your offer of civility, I decline
>> your offer. You might consider accepting what-is,
>> Jenn. If Arny interferes with your enjoyment of USEnet
>> ("a better place") you need to change your perspective,.
>> or not, your choice. :)
>>
>I don't agree. Many people defend the status quo of usenet with "it is what
>it is", which is circular justification of nothing. But people can improve
>the atmosphere with their touch, and their example. Jenn has only good in
>mind. Powell, take her up on it.

Robert, you're an idealist.

How long have you lived with this dreadful secret? The way must indeed
have been hard for you. :-(

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:34:35 GMT, Jenn
> > wrote:
>
>>In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
>>> wrote
>>> in message ...
>>>
>>> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
>>> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
>>> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
>>>
>>> >> Insult ignored. Once.
>>>
>>> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to
>>> > you.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant comment.
>>>
>>> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

>>> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.

>>Be above the fray and let the noise die out.

I'll let this show run for a while, because it is fun.

> Obviously you've never worked in child care, Jenn.

Good point. Seemingly never had kids of her own, either.

> But you're about to get a crash course. Enjoy. :-)

LOL!

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:35:44 GMT, Jenn
> > wrote:
>
>>I predict that the noise will die out.
>
> It usually does after the antagonists have killed each other.

Getting back to your kid care metaphor, the noise dies out when the kiddies
get engaged with small group or individual activities, or get tired and go
to sleep.

Lots of people who post on RAO have gotten engaged or tired. In either case
they just stopped posting.

[Fella]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> Fella said:
>
>
>>>Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
>
>
>>Render unto caeser, etc.. For one, your sig...
>
>
> For one what?
>
>

Insult? ... I'll tell you in more exact words after the month.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> > It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.

> Be above the fray and let the noise die out.

What do you mean? Is something there above the fray?



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Fella said:

> >>Render unto caeser, etc.. For one, your sig...

> > For one what?

> Insult? ... I'll tell you in more exact words after the month.

As I explained to Mr. Krooger, my sig line is mockery, not insult.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Jenn]

In article >,
(paul packer) wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:34:35 GMT, Jenn
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
> >> wrote
> >> in message ...
> >>
> >> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> >> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> >> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
> >>
> >> >> Insult ignored. Once.
> >>
> >> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.
> >>
> >> Irrelevant comment.
> >>
> >> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
> >>
> >> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.
> >
> >Be above the fray and let the noise die out.
>
>
> Obviously you've never worked in child care, Jenn.

Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or she
is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies. If they keep bullying,
one should look inward to find the problem.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "paul packer" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:34:35 GMT, Jenn
> > > wrote:
> >
> >>In article >,
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>
> >>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
> >>> wrote
> >>> in message ...
> >>>
> >>> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> >>> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> >>> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
> >>>
> >>> >> Insult ignored. Once.
> >>>
> >>> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to
> >>> > you.
> >>>
> >>> Irrelevant comment.
> >>>
> >>> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
>
> >>> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.
>
> >>Be above the fray and let the noise die out.
>
> I'll let this show run for a while, because it is fun.
>
> > Obviously you've never worked in child care, Jenn.
>
> Good point. Seemingly never had kids of her own, either.

Nope; couldn't. But I've dealt with more kids in social situations than
most people here, I'd guess.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
>
> Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or she
> is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.

That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one way or
the other.

> If they keep bullying,
> one should look inward to find the problem.

How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> >
> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or she
> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
>
> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one way or
> the other.
>
> > If they keep bullying,
> > one should look inward to find the problem.
>
> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?

We're not talking about someone on anyone's porch, Arny. We're talking
about Usenet. My advice would be not to enable. If you give it some
time and it doesn't work, you can always revert to past form, no harm
done, right?

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

paul packer wrote:
> On 12 Nov 2006 00:28:57 -0800, "Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!"
> > wrote:
>
>
> >Can you (or someone else) help me get the logs out of my eyes
>
> Actually I think they're beams, Shhhh!

Insult noted.

> Something to do with Iraq perhaps. All those exploding buildings.

Insult noted.

Gee, this is fun!;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> >
>> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or
>> > she
>> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
>>
>> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
>> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one way
>> or
>> the other.
>>
>> > If they keep bullying,
>> > one should look inward to find the problem.
>>
>> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?
>
> We're not talking about someone on anyone's porch, Arny.

Weren't we talking about bullies?

Are you saying that someone who shows up on your porch in a threatening way
isn't trying to bully you?

>We're talking about Usenet.

I think your anecdote shows that some people don't partition Usenet from the
rest of reality.

> My advice would be not to enable.

IME the best way to not enable on Usenet is as you suggges, to simply
ignore. However, I can tell you for sure that there are many people that
aren't slowed down by this strategy.

> If you give it some time and it doesn't work, you can always revert to
> past form, no harm done, right?

How long do you think the current situation in RAO has existed?

I believe you've heard about a strategy based on silence that involved a
number of people who cooperated for like a year. The end result was no
change.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

paul packer wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:34:35 GMT, Jenn
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
> >> in message ...
> >>
> >> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> >> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> >> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
> >>
> >> >> Insult ignored. Once.
> >>
> >> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.
> >>
> >> Irrelevant comment.
> >>
> >> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
> >>
> >> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.
> >
> >Be above the fray and let the noise die out.
>
>
> Obviously you've never worked in child care, Jenn.
>
> But you're about to get a crash course. Enjoy. :-)

Insult noted.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Jenn wrote:
> In article >,
> (paul packer) wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 07:34:35 GMT, Jenn
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >In article >,
> > > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> > >
> > >> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
> > >> wrote
> > >> in message ...
> > >>
> > >> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> > >> ...
> > >>
> > >> > I just disconnected the Krooglish (De)Koder, pulled the 12AX7s from it
> > >> > and offered its memory banks to a guy helping the SETI project, which
> > >> > will give this project a 10+ year boost.
> > >>
> > >> >> Insult ignored. Once.
> > >>
> > >> > Please explain how a picture of an ancient computer is an insult to you.
> > >>
> > >> Irrelevant comment.
> > >>
> > >> > Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.
> > >>
> > >> It's obvious that George wants to put and end to the truce.
> > >
> > >Be above the fray and let the noise die out.
> >
> >
> > Obviously you've never worked in child care, Jenn.
>
> Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or she
> is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies. If they keep bullying,
> one should look inward to find the problem.

Insult noted.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or she
> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
>
> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one way or
> the other.

Insult noted.

> > If they keep bullying,
> > one should look inward to find the problem.
>
> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?

Insult noted.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or
> >> > she
> >> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
> >>
> >> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
> >> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one way
> >> or
> >> the other.
> >>
> >> > If they keep bullying,
> >> > one should look inward to find the problem.
> >>
> >> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?
> >
> > We're not talking about someone on anyone's porch, Arny.
>
> Weren't we talking about bullies?

Yes, on Usenet.

>
> Are you saying that someone who shows up on your porch in a threatening way
> isn't trying to bully you?

We're talking about Usenet. Let's stay on-topic.

>
> >We're talking about Usenet.
>
> I think your anecdote shows that some people don't partition Usenet from the
> rest of reality.

The extreme example probably shouldn't define everyday behavior, huh?

>
> > My advice would be not to enable.
>
> IME the best way to not enable on Usenet is as you suggges, to simply
> ignore. However, I can tell you for sure that there are many people that
> aren't slowed down by this strategy.

OK, well you'll do what seems best, I'm sure.

>
> > If you give it some time and it doesn't work, you can always revert to
> > past form, no harm done, right?
>
> How long do you think the current situation in RAO has existed?

I'm not sure how relevant that is. Try to affect the present and
future, as that's all you can affect.

>
> I believe you've heard about a strategy based on silence that involved a
> number of people who cooperated for like a year. The end result was no
> change.

[George M. Middius]

Shhhh! said:

> > Something to do with Iraq perhaps. All those exploding buildings.

> Insult noted.
> Gee, this is fun!;-)

Thanks Mr. Shhs for, admitting Mr. Ssssh that you have fun when people are
insulting, you M.r Hshhh.





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> .
>> >> com
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or
>> >> > she
>> >> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
>> >>
>> >> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
>> >> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one
>> >> way
>> >> or
>> >> the other.
>> >>
>> >> > If they keep bullying,
>> >> > one should look inward to find the problem.
>> >>
>> >> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?
>> >
>> > We're not talking about someone on anyone's porch, Arny.
>>
>> Weren't we talking about bullies?
>
> Yes, on Usenet.
>
>>
>> Are you saying that someone who shows up on your porch in a threatening
>> way
>> isn't trying to bully you?
>
> We're talking about Usenet. Let's stay on-topic.
>
>>
>> >We're talking about Usenet.
>>
>> I think your anecdote shows that some people don't partition Usenet from
>> the
>> rest of reality.
>
> The extreme example probably shouldn't define everyday behavior, huh?

RAO is generally extreme behavior.

>> > My advice would be not to enable.

>> IME the best way to not enable on Usenet is as you suggges, to simply
>> ignore. However, I can tell you for sure that there are many people that
>> aren't slowed down by this strategy.

> OK, well you'll do what seems best, I'm sure.

>> > If you give it some time and it doesn't work, you can always revert to
>> > past form, no harm done, right?
>
>> How long do you think the current situation in RAO has existed?
>
> I'm not sure how relevant that is. Try to affect the present and
> future, as that's all you can affect.

Those who ignore history are condemned to waste time repeating it.

>> I believe you've heard about a strategy based on silence that involved a
>> number of people who cooperated for like a year. The end result was no
>> change.

Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.

[paul packer]

On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 09:41:36 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
> wrote:

>
>"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 21:17:19 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Powell" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>> "Jenn" wrote
>>>>
>>>>> I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior.
>>>>> I'm sincerely hoping that you'll help me with this project
>>>>> which I hope will make this group a better place.
>>>>>
>>>> With all due respect to your offer of civility, I decline
>>>> your offer. You might consider accepting what-is,
>>>> Jenn. If Arny interferes with your enjoyment of USEnet
>>>> ("a better place") you need to change your perspective,.
>>>> or not, your choice. :)
>>>>
>>>I don't agree. Many people defend the status quo of usenet with "it is
>>>what
>>>it is", which is circular justification of nothing. But people can
>>>improve
>>>the atmosphere with their touch, and their example. Jenn has only good in
>>>mind. Powell, take her up on it.
>>
>> Robert, you're an idealist.
>>
>> How long have you lived with this dreadful secret? The way must indeed
>> have been hard for you. :-(
>>
>Paul, I sing the Internationale,
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internationale, every morning. Before I go to
>bed, I sing the Horst Vessel-Lied:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horst-Wessel-Lied
>At lunchtime, for good measure, I sing the Honda Company Song.
>
>Bob


I'm just glad I don't live with you. :-)

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
> I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
> hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
> group a better place.
>
> I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
> that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
> period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
> Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
> Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
> disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
> as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
> see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
> But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
> helping.
>
> Thanks,
> Jenn

We've done this before, haven't we?

Boon

[Harry Lavo]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> >> .
>>> >> com
>>> >> ...
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he
>>> >> > or
>>> >> > she
>>> >> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
>>> >>
>>> >> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
>>> >> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one
>>> >> way
>>> >> or
>>> >> the other.
>>> >>
>>> >> > If they keep bullying,
>>> >> > one should look inward to find the problem.
>>> >>
>>> >> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?
>>> >
>>> > We're not talking about someone on anyone's porch, Arny.
>>>
>>> Weren't we talking about bullies?
>>
>> Yes, on Usenet.
>>
>>>
>>> Are you saying that someone who shows up on your porch in a threatening
>>> way
>>> isn't trying to bully you?
>>
>> We're talking about Usenet. Let's stay on-topic.
>>
>>>
>>> >We're talking about Usenet.
>>>
>>> I think your anecdote shows that some people don't partition Usenet from
>>> the
>>> rest of reality.
>>
>> The extreme example probably shouldn't define everyday behavior, huh?
>
> RAO is generally extreme behavior.
>
>>> > My advice would be not to enable.
>
>>> IME the best way to not enable on Usenet is as you suggges, to simply
>>> ignore. However, I can tell you for sure that there are many people that
>>> aren't slowed down by this strategy.
>
>> OK, well you'll do what seems best, I'm sure.
>
>>> > If you give it some time and it doesn't work, you can always revert
>>> > to
>>> > past form, no harm done, right?
>>
>>> How long do you think the current situation in RAO has existed?
>>
>> I'm not sure how relevant that is. Try to affect the present and
>> future, as that's all you can affect.
>
> Those who ignore history are condemned to waste time repeating it.
>
>>> I believe you've heard about a strategy based on silence that involved a
>>> number of people who cooperated for like a year. The end result was no
>>> change.
>
> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.

Arny, you just answered your own quote!!

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason! wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > > Please identify "the usual suspects" and the "insults" you've
> > > received since Jenn posted her request.
> >
> > Insult noted
>
> Arny, I really don't get this one, and a few others, at all. I honestly
> see no insult here whatsoever.
>
> Can you (or someone else) help me get the logs out of my eyes, so I can
> understand what's an insult about this?
>
> Otherwise it appears that anything that's said by anybody is an insult.
> I find that insulting to my intelligence.;-)
>
> Can we operate on this definition?
>
> ***********************************
> in·sult (in-sult')
>
> v., -sult·ed, -sult·ing, -sults.
>
> v.tr.
>
> To treat with gross insensitivity, insolence, or contemptuous rudeness.
> See synonyms at offend.
> To affront or demean: an absurd speech that insulted the intelligence
> of the audience.
> ************************************
>
> And can we ditch these, as they're considered either obsolete or
> archaic, and not in common use today?
>
> ************************************
> Obsolete. To make an attack on.
>
> v.intr. Archaic.
> To behave arrogantly.
> To give offense; offend: a speech that was intended to insult.
> n. (in'sult')
> An offensive action or remark.
> *************************************
>
> (Both from http://www.answers.com/topic/insult)

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.

That's an insulting thing to say...

Are we back-sliding here?

I hope not.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> gy.
> >> >> com
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Actually, I have. And there I learned that if one claims that he or
> >> >> > she
> >> >> > is being bullied, one should ignore the bullies.
> >> >>
> >> >> That works only so far. Maybe you've had a sheltered life. There are
> >> >> bullies who aren't happy until you're dead or seriously injured, one
> >> >> way
> >> >> or
> >> >> the other.
> >> >>
> >> >> > If they keep bullying,
> >> >> > one should look inward to find the problem.
> >> >>
> >> >> How does that idea apply to a *Nazi* on your front porch?
> >> >
> >> > We're not talking about someone on anyone's porch, Arny.
> >>
> >> Weren't we talking about bullies?
> >
> > Yes, on Usenet.
> >
> >>
> >> Are you saying that someone who shows up on your porch in a threatening
> >> way
> >> isn't trying to bully you?
> >
> > We're talking about Usenet. Let's stay on-topic.
> >
> >>
> >> >We're talking about Usenet.
> >>
> >> I think your anecdote shows that some people don't partition Usenet from
> >> the
> >> rest of reality.
> >
> > The extreme example probably shouldn't define everyday behavior, huh?
>
> RAO is generally extreme behavior.
>
> >> > My advice would be not to enable.
>
> >> IME the best way to not enable on Usenet is as you suggges, to simply
> >> ignore. However, I can tell you for sure that there are many people that
> >> aren't slowed down by this strategy.
>
> > OK, well you'll do what seems best, I'm sure.
>
> >> > If you give it some time and it doesn't work, you can always revert to
> >> > past form, no harm done, right?
> >
> >> How long do you think the current situation in RAO has existed?
> >
> > I'm not sure how relevant that is. Try to affect the present and
> > future, as that's all you can affect.
>
> Those who ignore history are condemned to waste time repeating it.
>
> >> I believe you've heard about a strategy based on silence that involved a
> >> number of people who cooperated for like a year. The end result was no
> >> change.
>
> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.

I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want it
to be different, start changing it. Help to lead the change. Or not.

[paul packer]

On 12 Nov 2006 16:35:15 -0800, wrote:

>
>Jenn wrote:
>> I've made a challenge to Arny regarding his behavior. I'm sincerely
>> hoping that you'll help me with this project which I hope will make this
>> group a better place.
>>
>> I've asked Arny to not post using insults for a month. The condition is
>> that everyone else here will not post insults to him during that same
>> period. He's willing to go along, so long as he is also treated well.
>> Could you please help this project by not posting insults or putdowns to
>> Arny? Let's see if he can do this. This is not to say that we can't
>> disagree, of course. OPINION is the name of the group after all. But
>> as it relates to Arny at least, can we not do the insult thing? Let's
>> see if he can return the favor. If he can't, then we and he will know.
>> But let's not give him an excuse to start back up. Please consider
>> helping.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jenn
>
>We've done this before, haven't we?
>
>Boon

Yes. Weren't you part of the "excluded middle"?

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.

> I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want it
> to be different, start changing it.

Mission impossible.

> Help to lead the change. Or not.

Been there, done that. Your turn.

[George M. Middius]

Arnii "It's not my fault" Krooger said:

> > I'm simply saying that if you want it
> > to be different, start changing it.

> Mission impossible.

More evidence of your greatly augmented self-awareness, Arnii. The other
day you agreed that you are a brittle, thin-skinned, hypersensitive
individual, and now you confide that you are incapable of changing your
own behavior.

This might be the first step on the road to healing. Go for it!





--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> >> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.
>
> > I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want it
> > to be different, start changing it.
>
> Mission impossible.

If there was a sustained period of you not trading insults with anyone,
the others would get bored and stop.

>
> > Help to lead the change. Or not.
>
> Been there, done that. Your turn.

I AM trying to lead change. You can join in and help to stop the
childishness, or you can be part of the problem. The decision is yours.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>> >> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.
>>
>> > I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want it
>> > to be different, start changing it.
>>
>> Mission impossible.
>
> If there was a sustained period of you not trading insults with anyone,
> the others would get bored and stop.

That's a well-disproved theory.

(Disproof 1) There was a lengthy period of not trading insults with anyone,
prior to the days of Zipser, Derrida, then Middius and Singh. It was
transformed into the current era through the ongoing efforts of the
aforementioned people.

(Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained periods of
time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.

(Disproof 3) Even if the usual list of suspects don't insult me, they insult
others.

(Disproof 4) I've been pretty much leaving Middius alone, right up until I
started counting his insults last weekend. Didn't stop him, didn't even slow
him down.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.
> >>
> >> > I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want it
> >> > to be different, start changing it.
> >>
> >> Mission impossible.
> >
> > If there was a sustained period of you not trading insults with anyone,
> > the others would get bored and stop.
>
> That's a well-disproved theory.
>
> (Disproof 1) There was a lengthy period of not trading insults with anyone,
> prior to the days of Zipser, Derrida, then Middius and Singh. It was
> transformed into the current era through the ongoing efforts of the
> aforementioned people.
>
> (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained periods of
> time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.

When did this happen? I'd like to see what happened.

>
> (Disproof 3) Even if the usual list of suspects don't insult me, they insult
> others.

Irrelevant to you, of course.

>
> (Disproof 4) I've been pretty much leaving Middius alone, right up until I
> started counting his insults last weekend. Didn't stop him, didn't even slow
> him down.

But during that time, you were busy insulting others, thus making you a
target.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> .
>> >> com
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.
>> >>
>> >> > I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want
>> >> > it
>> >> > to be different, start changing it.
>> >>
>> >> Mission impossible.
>> >
>> > If there was a sustained period of you not trading insults with anyone,
>> > the others would get bored and stop.
>>
>> That's a well-disproved theory.
>>
>> (Disproof 1) There was a lengthy period of not trading insults with
>> anyone,
>> prior to the days of Zipser, Derrida, then Middius and Singh. It was
>> transformed into the current era through the ongoing efforts of the
>> aforementioned people.
>>
>> (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained periods
>> of
>> time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.
>
> When did this happen? I'd like to see what happened.

It happens just about every year when I take a vacation. Dates vary. I used
to take more 2 week vacations. Still happened. It was so funny - the claim
was made that I was posting under an alias from a laptop. Thing is, I was
Hiking on Isle Royale that year - maybe a dozen phones on the whole island,
all several days walk or paddle from where I was hiking.

It makes the point that the tenor of this conference is pretty much
disconnected from my behavior.

>> (Disproof 3) Even if the usual list of suspects don't insult me, they
>> insult
>> others.
>
> Irrelevant to you, of course.

But again it makes the point that the tenor of this conference is
appreciably irrelevant to my behavior.

>> (Disproof 4) I've been pretty much leaving Middius alone, right up until
>> I
>> started counting his insults last weekend. Didn't stop him, didn't even
>> slow
>> him down.

> But during that time, you were busy insulting others, thus making you a
> target.

Good job of supporting Middius in his "Arny made me do it" lack of
accountability for his own actions.

BTW, that's an old story, too.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> gy.
> >> >> com
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.
> >> >>
> >> >> > I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you want
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > to be different, start changing it.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mission impossible.
> >> >
> >> > If there was a sustained period of you not trading insults with anyone,
> >> > the others would get bored and stop.
> >>
> >> That's a well-disproved theory.
> >>
> >> (Disproof 1) There was a lengthy period of not trading insults with
> >> anyone,
> >> prior to the days of Zipser, Derrida, then Middius and Singh. It was
> >> transformed into the current era through the ongoing efforts of the
> >> aforementioned people.
> >>
> >> (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained periods
> >> of
> >> time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.
> >
> > When did this happen? I'd like to see what happened.
>
> It happens just about every year when I take a vacation. Dates vary. I used
> to take more 2 week vacations. Still happened.

That's way I suggested a moratorium of a month. Long entrenched
behavior doesn't just stop overnight. Plus, the others probably knew
that you would return to your usual posting style when you got back.
Show them that it will be different.


> It was so funny - the claim
> was made that I was posting under an alias from a laptop. Thing is, I was
> Hiking on Isle Royale that year - maybe a dozen phones on the whole island,
> all several days walk or paddle from where I was hiking.
>
> It makes the point that the tenor of this conference is pretty much
> disconnected from my behavior.

I disagree. Stop it on your side and find out. Bullies are motivated
by either the response they get, or they bully in retaliation. You not
responding in kind removes both motivations.

>
> >> (Disproof 3) Even if the usual list of suspects don't insult me, they
> >> insult
> >> others.
> >
> > Irrelevant to you, of course.
>
> But again it makes the point that the tenor of this conference is
> appreciably irrelevant to my behavior.
>
> >> (Disproof 4) I've been pretty much leaving Middius alone, right up until
> >> I
> >> started counting his insults last weekend. Didn't stop him, didn't even
> >> slow
> >> him down.
>
> > But during that time, you were busy insulting others, thus making you a
> > target.
>
> Good job of supporting Middius in his "Arny made me do it" lack of
> accountability for his own actions.
>
> BTW, that's an old story, too.

I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If you
don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.

[George M. Middius]

Arnii is hurtin' again.

> (Disproof 4) I've been pretty much leaving Middius alone, right up until I
> started counting his insults last weekend. Didn't stop him, didn't even slow
> him down.

I miss your luminous "wit", Arnii. Please dazzle us some more!

(Note: I reinstated my sig line because you were unable to demonstrate how
it was an "insult" to you and your delicate feelings.)




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> > (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained periods of
> > time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.

> When did this happen? I'd like to see what happened.

I'm sure you'll get the usual evasive reply from Mr. Krooger.

The reality is that Arnii is his usual snotty self right up until the
moment of his last post, so the absences in question are pretty much
irrelevant to the point at issue. Namely, if Krooger stops being an
asshole, would others stop returning the favor.



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Sander deWaal]

Jenn > said:


>I disagree. Stop it on your side and find out. Bullies are motivated
>by either the response they get, or they bully in retaliation. You not
>responding in kind removes both motivations.


This is like the Israel/Palestine thing.

Each party watches closely for the other to commit the slightest of
errors, and back we are from sq. 1.
(Yes, I'm ignoring the rocket firing incident).

Nevertheless, I appreciate your effort, and will try to support it
wherever and whenever I can.

Al one can do is start looking what one can do by him- or her self to
change his/her behaviour, one cannot hope to change or even influence
others.


Lead by example, indeed.
Even Mike McKelvy said this to Arny several times.

--
"Due knot trussed yore spell chequer two fined awl miss steaks."

[George M. Middius]

Arnii "Insults are EVERYwhere" Krooger said:

> > But during that time, you were busy insulting others, thus making you a target.

> Good job of supporting Middius in his "Arny made me do it" lack of
> accountability for his own actions.

I never offer that excuse. You, however, make that excuse all the time.
From you, it's always "Yes, I'm an asshole, but so is everybody else." My
reply is "You don't like it? Killfile me!" Or sometimes, "Don't start a
war you're not equipped to wage."

I don't ask for anybody's pity, unlike you. I accept that when others
throw invective at me, it's usually warranted. In fact, a few new RAOers'
very first post was to call me a nasty name. Of course, since then, they
realized I was 100% right about you, and then they backed off their
earlier stance.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> Stop it on your side and find out. Bullies are motivated
> by either the response they get, or they bully in retaliation. You not
> responding in kind removes both motivations.

This suggestion misses the main point, IMO. Krooger does not engender
hostility by engaging in name-calling with me, or Sander, or Marc, or
Paul. It's the snottiness about audio opinions that annoys everybody.
Unless and until Krooger stops calling people ignorant and backward and so
forth, whether he responds in kind to "Krooborg" or "****head" isn't
important.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Jenn]

In article >,
Sander deWaal > wrote:

> Jenn > said:
>
>
> >I disagree. Stop it on your side and find out. Bullies are motivated
> >by either the response they get, or they bully in retaliation. You not
> >responding in kind removes both motivations.
>
>
> This is like the Israel/Palestine thing.
>
> Each party watches closely for the other to commit the slightest of
> errors, and back we are from sq. 1.
> (Yes, I'm ignoring the rocket firing incident).
>
> Nevertheless, I appreciate your effort, and will try to support it
> wherever and whenever I can.
>
> Al one can do is start looking what one can do by him- or her self to
> change his/her behaviour, one cannot hope to change or even influence
> others.

I pretty much agree, but obviously I was tempted to try. One CAN affect
others' behavior if the principals are willing to try for something
better. That is yet to be seen.

>
>
> Lead by example, indeed.
> Even Mike McKelvy said this to Arny several times.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> [snip]
> >>
> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
> >
> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If you
> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>
> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this group.
> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long term,
> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.

Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.

>
> I would like to trade music with you. I have my NYC Public Music Recording
> Project, and I would like to hear your recent recordings of yourself. How
> could this be accomplished?

I'd like to hear what you are doing; it sounds interesting and I applaud
you! Let me think about how to accomplishment that.

>
> Regards,
> Bob Morein
> Dresher, PA
> (215) 646-4894

[Jenn]

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
wrote:

> Jenn said:
>
> > Stop it on your side and find out. Bullies are motivated
> > by either the response they get, or they bully in retaliation. You not
> > responding in kind removes both motivations.
>
> This suggestion misses the main point, IMO. Krooger does not engender
> hostility by engaging in name-calling with me, or Sander, or Marc, or
> Paul. It's the snottiness about audio opinions that annoys everybody.
> Unless and until Krooger stops calling people ignorant and backward and so
> forth, whether he responds in kind to "Krooborg" or "****head" isn't
> important.

I pretty much agree. I include the above as "insults".

[Harry Lavo]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> >> .
>>> >> com
>>> >> ...
>>> >> > In article >,
>>> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >> Jenn likes to ignore the real sources of problems around here.
>>> >>
>>> >> > I'm not ignoring anything, Arny. I'm simply saying that if you
>>> >> > want it
>>> >> > to be different, start changing it.
>>> >>
>>> >> Mission impossible.
>>> >
>>> > If there was a sustained period of you not trading insults with
>>> > anyone,
>>> > the others would get bored and stop.
>>>
>>> That's a well-disproved theory.
>>>
>>> (Disproof 1) There was a lengthy period of not trading insults with
>>> anyone,
>>> prior to the days of Zipser, Derrida, then Middius and Singh. It was
>>> transformed into the current era through the ongoing efforts of the
>>> aforementioned people.
>>>
>>> (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained
>>> periods of
>>> time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.
>>
>> When did this happen? I'd like to see what happened.
>
> It happens just about every year when I take a vacation. Dates vary. I
> used to take more 2 week vacations. Still happened. It was so funny - the
> claim was made that I was posting under an alias from a laptop. Thing is,
> I was Hiking on Isle Royale that year - maybe a dozen phones on the whole
> island, all several days walk or paddle from where I was hiking.
>
> It makes the point that the tenor of this conference is pretty much
> disconnected from my behavior.
>
>>> (Disproof 3) Even if the usual list of suspects don't insult me, they
>>> insult
>>> others.
>>
>> Irrelevant to you, of course.
>
> But again it makes the point that the tenor of this conference is
> appreciably irrelevant to my behavior.
>
>>> (Disproof 4) I've been pretty much leaving Middius alone, right up until
>>> I
>>> started counting his insults last weekend. Didn't stop him, didn't even
>>> slow
>>> him down.
>
>> But during that time, you were busy insulting others, thus making you a
>> target.
>
> Good job of supporting Middius in his "Arny made me do it" lack of
> accountability for his own actions.
>
> BTW, that's an old story, too.

Frankly, ARny, that is not my recollection at all of this last vacation
"hiatus". Nobody even said "where's Arny". We had some interesting
discussions on audio topics as well as the usual OT stuff while you were
gone. And I don't recall anybody being too harsh on you during that time.

[Powell]

"Jenn" wrote

> I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to
> solve a problem.
>
It's not something that is within your power to correct, IMO.
Your cause is noble and caring but you have the expectation
that Arny has the social/psychological disposition (skill sets)
to flip a switch and turn-it-off, he doesn't. Not without
outside help (not R.O.A.) anyway, even if he truly wanted
to change. Whether or not you perceive this as a fault or a
handicapped may direct you into a more effective approach
in dealing with Arny's narcissism.


> If you don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just
> leave for good.
>
"leave for good"... well that's a choice too. You would
be in good company. Ed and Bruce left R.A.O. for
similar reasons. I hope you would stay but would not
be given-in to the notion that Arny has any real power
concerning who you are or your standing on the board.

[Powell]

"Harry Lavo" wrote

> Frankly, ARny, that is not my recollection at all of this last vacation
> "hiatus". Nobody even said "where's Arny".
> We had some interesting discussions on audio topics as well as the usual
> OT stuff while you were gone. And I don't recall anybody being too harsh
> on you during that time.
>
Agreed. And what does that say about Arny when
returning from vacation his first priority is sort through
all the missed posts looking for his name and
was-he-missed. Can we say... narcissist! :)

[George M. Middius]

Sander deWaal said:

> Lead by example, indeed.
> Even Mike McKelvy said this to Arny several times.


Yeah, wasn't that a hoot™ ?



--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Harry Lavo said:

> Frankly, ARny, that is not my recollection at all of this last vacation
> "hiatus". Nobody even said "where's Arny". We had some interesting
> discussions on audio topics as well as the usual OT stuff while you were
> gone. And I don't recall anybody being too harsh on you during that time.

Agreed.™ LoT"s.™

When Mr. Krooger takes a vacation from RAO, the immediate reaction for
most of us is, "Hey, it doesn't stink around here any more!"




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[George M. Middius]

Powell said:

> Agreed. And what does that say about Arny when
> returning from vacation his first priority is sort through
> all the missed posts looking for his name and
> was-he-missed. Can we say... narcissist! :)

You say that about everybody.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>>>>
>>>> (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained
>>>> periods of
>>>> time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.
>>>
>>> When did this happen? I'd like to see what happened.
>>
>> It happens just about every year when I take a vacation. Dates vary. I
>> used to take more 2 week vacations. Still happened. It was so funny - the
>> claim was made that I was posting under an alias from a laptop. Thing is,
>> I was Hiking on Isle Royale that year - maybe a dozen phones on the whole
>> island, all several days walk or paddle from where I was hiking.
>>
>> It makes the point that the tenor of this conference is pretty much
>> disconnected from my behavior.
>>
> Frankly, ARny, that is not my recollection at all of this last vacation
> "hiatus". Nobody even said "where's Arny".

That's right - some kept right on hurling insults at me days after I had
left. In many cases it was due to the pile-on effect.

[Harry Lavo]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >,
>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
>>> > you
>>> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>>>
>>> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
>>> group.
>>> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
>>> term,
>>> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
>>
>> Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
>> entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
>> to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
>>
> It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical. But it isn't sinful
> to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
> useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him
> (yes, the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person.
> He might take a shot or two occasionally, but he is blameless for the
> character of the group. You are not. You've done a lot of good in the
> short time you've been here. Just think of the marvelous possibility that
> your presence might bring in more persons like yourself.
>
> I recorded a jazz quintet in Greenwich Village last night. It was a mess,
> but it was fun, and the results are surprisingly good. I was introduced to
> a saxophonist who plays in the subway. I'm going to add him to my bag on
> Tuesday.

Provide a "report" when you have the time. What was the mess? What was
surprising about the good?

[paul packer]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:18:49 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
> wrote:

>
>"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ...
>>> > In article >,
>>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>> [snip]
>>> >>
>>> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
>>> >
>>> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
>>> > you
>>> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>>>
>>> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
>>> group.
>>> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
>>> term,
>>> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
>>
>> Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
>> entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
>> to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
>>
>It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical.

Yes, but quite amusing.

>But it isn't sinful
>to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
>useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him (yes,
>the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person.

And that was with my teeth out! Imagine the joy of communication if I
put them in and you could actually understand what I was saying.

>He might take a shot or two occasionally,

Nope. Never touch the stuff.

> but he is blameless for the character of
>the group.

Eh? I can be as nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical as the
next poster. Not to mention copacetic, which it appears has not
actually been officially defined yet. I'm keeping my options open on
that one.

>You are not. You've done a lot of good in the short time you've
>been here. Just think of the marvelous possibility that your presence might
>bring in more persons like yourself.

Not to mention the long-term beneficent effects on people like Arnie
and George. I can see them now tripping arm-in-arm down a rose-strewn
corridor of amity and tolerance blowing sideways kisses at each other.


Hmmm....maybe we'd better stay as we are....

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Soundhaspriority" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> [snip]
> >> >>
> >> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
> >> > you
> >> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
> >>
> >> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
> >> group.
> >> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
> >> term,
> >> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
> >
> > Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
> > entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
> > to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
> >
> It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical. But it isn't sinful
> to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
> useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him (yes,
> the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person. He might
> take a shot or two occasionally, but he is blameless for the character of
> the group.

Well, I have other problems with Paul, as I believe he knows.

> You are not. You've done a lot of good in the short time you've
> been here. Just think of the marvelous possibility that your presence might
> bring in more persons like yourself.

Again, thanks for the kind words. We'll see how it works out.

>
> I recorded a jazz quintet in Greenwich Village last night. It was a mess,
> but it was fun, and the results are surprisingly good. I was introduced to a
> saxophonist who plays in the subway. I'm going to add him to my bag on
> Tuesday.

Great! I think that most of us would like to hear even more about your
experiences.

[Jenn]

Powell wrote:
> "Jenn" wrote
>
> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to
> > solve a problem.
> >
> It's not something that is within your power to correct, IMO.
> Your cause is noble and caring but you have the expectation
> that Arny has the social/psychological disposition (skill sets)
> to flip a switch and turn-it-off, he doesn't. Not without
> outside help (not R.O.A.) anyway, even if he truly wanted
> to change. Whether or not you perceive this as a fault or a
> handicapped may direct you into a more effective approach
> in dealing with Arny's narcissism.

Perhaps, and I understand what you're saying. Mine may well be a
fool's effort, but I feel that it's worth a try in order to make the
group more humane. BOTH sides has it's faults, IMO.

>
>
> > If you don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just
> > leave for good.
> >
> "leave for good"... well that's a choice too.

Of course.

> You would
> be in good company. Ed and Bruce left R.A.O. for
> similar reasons. I hope you would stay but would not
> be given-in to the notion that Arny has any real power
> concerning who you are or your standing on the board.

Point taken, thanks.

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> Not to mention the long-term beneficent effects on people like Arnie
> and George.

Are you starting an RAO philanthropic foundation? Oh wait -- probably
another spelling blooper.




--

Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> That's right - some kept right on hurling insults at me days after I had
> left. In many cases it was due to the pile-on effect.

I would like to know what these dates were so that I can search Google.

The first few days would not count, as not all posts are immediately
answered. The tale should be told on that second week.

So what were the dates you were gone?

[paul packer]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:58:58 GMT, Jenn
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> .
>> >> com
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >> [snip]
>> >> >>
>> >> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
>> >> > you
>> >> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>> >>
>> >> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
>> >> group.
>> >> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
>> >> term,
>> >> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
>> >
>> > Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
>> > entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
>> > to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
>> >
>> It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical. But it isn't sinful
>> to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
>> useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him (yes,
>> the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person. He might
>> take a shot or two occasionally, but he is blameless for the character of
>> the group.
>
>Well, I have other problems with Paul, as I believe he knows.


He doesn't.

[paul packer]

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 19:36:14 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
> wrote:

>
>"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:18:49 -0500, "Soundhaspriority"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
>>>> In article >,
>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> > In article >,
>>>>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
>>>>> > you
>>>>> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
>>>>> group.
>>>>> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
>>>>> term,
>>>>> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
>>>> entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
>>>> to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
>>>>
>>>It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical.
>>
>> Yes, but quite amusing.
>>
>>>But it isn't sinful
>>>to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
>>>useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him
>>>(yes,
>>>the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person.
>>
>> And that was with my teeth out! Imagine the joy of communication if I
>> put them in and you could actually understand what I was saying.
>>
>>>He might take a shot or two occasionally,
>>
>> Nope. Never touch the stuff.
>
>Paul, there's a difference in vernacular here. By "cheap shot", I mean a
>verbal remark, not imbibulation.

Just my little joke, Robert. Must be one of your slower days.

You're not wearing that hat again, are you? :-)

[Jenn]

In article >,
(paul packer) wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:58:58 GMT, Jenn
> > wrote:
>
> >In article >,
> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> .
> >> com
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >> gy.
> >> >> com
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >> [snip]
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
> >> >> > you
> >> >> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
> >> >> group.
> >> >> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
> >> >> term,
> >> >> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
> >> > entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
> >> > to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
> >> >
> >> It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical. But it isn't sinful
> >> to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
> >> useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him
> >> (yes,
> >> the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person. He
> >> might
> >> take a shot or two occasionally, but he is blameless for the character of
> >> the group.
> >
> >Well, I have other problems with Paul, as I believe he knows.
>
>
> He doesn't.

May I email you about it?

[paul packer]

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:53:40 GMT, Jenn
> wrote:

>In article >,
> (paul packer) wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 00:58:58 GMT, Jenn
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >In article >,
>> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> .
>> >> com
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> > "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> >>
>> >> >> gy.
>> >> >> com
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > In article >,
>> >> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >> >> [snip]
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
>> >> >> > you
>> >> >> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
>> >> >> group.
>> >> >> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
>> >> >> term,
>> >> >> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
>> >> > entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly non-entertaining
>> >> > to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
>> >> >
>> >> It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical. But it isn't sinful
>> >> to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms. Perhaps a
>> >> useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken with him
>> >> (yes,
>> >> the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and copacetic person. He
>> >> might
>> >> take a shot or two occasionally, but he is blameless for the character of
>> >> the group.
>> >
>> >Well, I have other problems with Paul, as I believe he knows.
>>
>>
>> He doesn't.
>
>May I email you about it?


By all means.

[Harry Lavo]

"Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article >,
>>>> "Soundhaspriority" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>> > In article >,
>>>>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>> [snip]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> BTW, that's an old story, too.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I'm not supporting George, Arny. I'm trying to solve a problem. If
>>>>> > you
>>>>> > don't want to give it a go, fine; I'll probably just leave for good.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jenn, please don't leave. You are a uniquely talented person in this
>>>>> group.
>>>>> By your gentle example, you will effect positive change in the long
>>>>> term,
>>>>> even if it doesn't happen as quickly as you would like.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Robert. We'll see how this goes today. I come here mostly for
>>>> entertainment these days, and it's growing increasingly
>>>> non-entertaining
>>>> to watch (and participate in) what goes on here.
>>>>
>>> It is nasty, hypermasculine, bigoted, and nonsensical. But it isn't
>>> sinful to particpate if you keep your own character and your own terms.
>>> Perhaps a useful point of reference would be Paul Packer. I have spoken
>>> with him (yes, the phone!) and found him a highly enjoyable and
>>> copacetic person. He might take a shot or two occasionally, but he is
>>> blameless for the character of the group. You are not. You've done a lot
>>> of good in the short time you've been here. Just think of the marvelous
>>> possibility that your presence might bring in more persons like
>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> I recorded a jazz quintet in Greenwich Village last night. It was a
>>> mess, but it was fun, and the results are surprisingly good. I was
>>> introduced to a saxophonist who plays in the subway. I'm going to add
>>> him to my bag on Tuesday.
>>
>> Provide a "report" when you have the time. What was the mess? What was
>> surprising about the good?
>
> I just started a new thread.
>
> Bob Morein

Saw it. Thanks.

[Powell]

"George M. Middius" wrote

>> Agreed. And what does that say about Arny when
>> returning from vacation his first priority is sort through
>> all the missed posts looking for his name and
>> was-he-missed. Can we say... narcissist! :)
>
> You say that about everybody.
>
Next time try stringing five meaningful words together. :)

[Clyde Slick]

Arny Krueger a scris:
>

>
> IME the best way to not enable on Usenet is as you suggges, to simply
> ignore. However, I can tell you for sure that there are many people that
> aren't slowed down by this strategy.
>


LOL!!!!

in the very recent past you accused Jenn of enabling one of your
detracors, by her simple act of ignoring him!!!!!

minus 5 debating points for you!

[Clyde Slick]

Arny Krueger a scris:
>
> (Disproof 2) I have absented myself from this group for sustained periods of
> time, and the usual suspects kept right on insulting me in my absence.
>

if you were truly absent, you wouldn't know that.
try dying next time, maybe that will work.(Sound of bus engine warming
up)