Sleepers

[Andre Jute]

I can't remember a time when the 417A didn't have a small but loyal
following, with some liking the plain WE tube, others preferring the
Ericson of Sweden gold pin version, and so on. But, even with all its
advantages, the 417A is still an orphan tube. I saw a pair of gennie
WE417A advertised on RAT for fifteen American dollars and passed them
by -- I've never paid more than six bucks for a 417A. That must make it
the cheapest "famous" WE tube in the known universe!

The next tube to be discovered will be the 7044, a computer tube with
huge stocks of pulls and possibly even NOS hanging around. I bought
some a while ago for three bucks each and the seller was glad to get
it. What makes the 7044 good is that it works on 120V so the mains
tranny can be cheap, and that it is beefy, so that as a driver it can
kick the bejesus out of Miller, and can serve as a small power tube
too. Think of it as a tall, beefy 5687, whose transfer curves its
matches pretty closely.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
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containing vital gems of wisdom"
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[Peter Wieck]

Andrew Jute McCoy created:

>A bunch of obvious but irrelevant blather on tubes based on conditional truisms...

Give it a rest, and try, try just once, discussing something that you
actually understand... Whatever that might be.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

[Ruud Broens]

"Andre Jute" > wrote in message
oups.com...
: I can't remember a time when the 417A didn't have a small but loyal
: following, with some liking the plain WE tube, others preferring the
: Ericson of Sweden gold pin version, and so on. But, even with all its
: advantages, the 417A is still an orphan tube. I saw a pair of gennie
: WE417A advertised on RAT for fifteen American dollars and passed them
: by -- I've never paid more than six bucks for a 417A. That must make it
: the cheapest "famous" WE tube in the known universe!
:
: The next tube to be discovered will be the 7044, a computer tube with
: huge stocks of pulls and possibly even NOS hanging around. I bought
: some a while ago for three bucks each and the seller was glad to get
: it. What makes the 7044 good is that it works on 120V so the mains
: tranny can be cheap, and that it is beefy, so that as a driver it can
: kick the bejesus out of Miller, and can serve as a small power tube
: too. Think of it as a tall, beefy 5687, whose transfer curves its
: matches pretty closely.
:
: Andre Jute

i'll add a driver sleeper to this list:
18046 or E83F, longlife telco tube,
somewhat like a meatier half of the ECC99,
connected in triode Pa+g2 = 5.6 W instead of 4.5W for an ECC99 half,
with a 430 V B+, 22K Ra, 150V 13 mA ~running it for 10's of thousand
hours expected~ , 5Vtt in makes 160 Vtt with just a trace of distortion

still can be found for around 5 euro's ;-)
Rudy

[Andre Jute]

Ruud Broens wrote:
> "Andre Jute" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> : I can't remember a time when the 417A didn't have a small but loyal
> : following, with some liking the plain WE tube, others preferring the
> : Ericson of Sweden gold pin version, and so on. But, even with all its
> : advantages, the 417A is still an orphan tube. I saw a pair of gennie
> : WE417A advertised on RAT for fifteen American dollars and passed them
> : by -- I've never paid more than six bucks for a 417A. That must make it
> : the cheapest "famous" WE tube in the known universe!
> :
> : The next tube to be discovered will be the 7044, a computer tube with
> : huge stocks of pulls and possibly even NOS hanging around. I bought
> : some a while ago for three bucks each and the seller was glad to get
> : it. What makes the 7044 good is that it works on 120V so the mains
> : tranny can be cheap, and that it is beefy, so that as a driver it can
> : kick the bejesus out of Miller, and can serve as a small power tube
> : too. Think of it as a tall, beefy 5687, whose transfer curves its
> : matches pretty closely.
> :
> : Andre Jute
>
> i'll add a driver sleeper to this list:
> 18046 or E83F, longlife telco tube,
> somewhat like a meatier half of the ECC99,
> connected in triode Pa+g2 = 5.6 W instead of 4.5W for an ECC99 half,
> with a 430 V B+, 22K Ra, 150V 13 mA ~running it for 10's of thousand
> hours expected~ , 5Vtt in makes 160 Vtt with just a trace of distortion
>
> still can be found for around 5 euro's ;-)
> Rudy

Now that sounds like a driver! 13mA is quite good enough for driving a
300B nicely to whatever bandwidth the OPT are good for; I like drivers
that work with the 2V out of my CD without requiring a pre with gain in
between. And it would just about drive a conservative 845, better if
doubled up.

Thanks, Rudy.

Andre Jute
Our legislators managed to criminalize fox-hunting and smoking; when
they will get off their collective fat arse and criminalize negative
feedback? It is clearly consumed only by undesirables.

[Ruud Broens]

"Andre Jute" > wrote in message
ups.com...
:
: Ruud Broens wrote:
: > "Andre Jute" > wrote in message
: > oups.com...
: > : I can't remember a time when the 417A didn't have a small but loyal
: > : following, with some liking the plain WE tube, others preferring the
: > : Ericson of Sweden gold pin version, and so on. But, even with all its
: > : advantages, the 417A is still an orphan tube. I saw a pair of gennie
: > : WE417A advertised on RAT for fifteen American dollars and passed them
: > : by -- I've never paid more than six bucks for a 417A. That must make it
: > : the cheapest "famous" WE tube in the known universe!
: > :
: > : The next tube to be discovered will be the 7044, a computer tube with
: > : huge stocks of pulls and possibly even NOS hanging around. I bought
: > : some a while ago for three bucks each and the seller was glad to get
: > : it. What makes the 7044 good is that it works on 120V so the mains
: > : tranny can be cheap, and that it is beefy, so that as a driver it can
: > : kick the bejesus out of Miller, and can serve as a small power tube
: > : too. Think of it as a tall, beefy 5687, whose transfer curves its
: > : matches pretty closely.
: > :
: > : Andre Jute
: >
: > i'll add a driver sleeper to this list:
: > 18046 or E83F, longlife telco tube,
: > somewhat like a meatier half of the ECC99,
: > connected in triode Pa+g2 = 5.6 W instead of 4.5W for an ECC99 half,
: > with a 430 V B+, 22K Ra, 150V 13 mA ~running it for 10's of thousand
: > hours expected~ , 5Vtt in makes 160 Vtt with just a trace of distortion
: >
: > still can be found for around 5 euro's ;-)
: > Rudy
:
: Now that sounds like a driver! 13mA is quite good enough for driving a
: 300B nicely to whatever bandwidth the OPT are good for; I like drivers
: that work with the 2V out of my CD without requiring a pre with gain in
: between. And it would just about drive a conservative 845, better if
: doubled up.
:
: Thanks, Rudy.
:
: Andre Jute
: Our legislators managed to criminalize fox-hunting and smoking; when
: they will get off their collective fat arse and criminalize negative
: feedback? It is clearly consumed only by undesirables.

as a note, such tubes prefer a very constant heater current to get
that longlife, simplest is probable a constant current drain from the powertubes
negative bias voltage source.

R.
anyone else got any sleepers ?
:

[Adam Stouffer]

Andre Jute wrote:
> I've never paid more than six bucks for a 417A. That must make it
> the cheapest "famous" WE tube in the known universe!

Certainly not on ebay.

> The next tube to be discovered will be the 7044, a computer tube with
> huge stocks of pulls and possibly even NOS hanging around. I bought
> some a while ago for three bucks each and the seller was glad to get
> it. What makes the 7044 good is that it works on 120V so the mains
> tranny can be cheap, and that it is beefy, so that as a driver it can
> kick the bejesus out of Miller, and can serve as a small power tube
> too. Think of it as a tall, beefy 5687, whose transfer curves its
> matches pretty closely.
>

How about the 6350?



Adam

[Andre Jute]

Adam Stouffer wrote:
> Andre Jute wrote:
> > I've never paid more than six bucks for a 417A. That must make it
> > the cheapest "famous" WE tube in the known universe!
>
> Certainly not on ebay.

I don't buy tubes on Ebay. I bought all my 417A from people who offered
them right here on RAT, believe it or not.

> > The next tube to be discovered will be the 7044, a computer tube with
> > huge stocks of pulls and possibly even NOS hanging around. I bought
> > some a while ago for three bucks each and the seller was glad to get
> > it. What makes the 7044 good is that it works on 120V so the mains
> > tranny can be cheap, and that it is beefy, so that as a driver it can
> > kick the bejesus out of Miller, and can serve as a small power tube
> > too. Think of it as a tall, beefy 5687, whose transfer curves its
> > matches pretty closely.
> >
>
> How about the 6350?

That's a 12BH7, right, Adam? I had a pair once that a guy in Canada
sent me as an oddity (he had a big boxfull) but there was something odd
about the pinout so I couldn't use it instead of the 12BH7; I gave them
to a guy building an EL34PP amp. 12BH7 is itself an underrated tube.

> Adam

No shortage of suitable audio tubes, if only people will look. This
6350 is another, and probably no shortage of its original 12BH7 either.

A lurker has written to me offlist to say the 7044 is not such a
sleeper as I clain: it was used in an Audio Note UK 845 amp!

All of this raises the question, What is a sleeper? Is it a tube nobody
has ever heard of before? Is it a tube not used in audio before but
possibly even famous elsewhere? Is it an insanely great tube (like the
5842/417A) with only a niche following? Is it a little-known sub for a
known audio-tube (eg 6350 for 12BH7A, with a little rewiring)?

A possible, but only possible, general rule for a sleeper is that it
should be reasonably priced if only against some other, better known
tube that it matches.

Andre Jute

[Andy Evans]

The problem with telling everybody about really good sleeper tubes is
that they start buying them and prices go up. So almost by definition,
sleeper tubes aren't mentioned publicly. I could give you a few but
won't for the above reasons - ya boo. But some have flurries and go
back down. Like the 1626 - had a vogue and everybody ran out of it, but
now it's back cheap again. Loctals have always been cheap and extremely
underpriced - some gems there. Same for rimlocks. 417 isn't a sleeper -
it's in loads of designs. 6530 is very average - had a pile and got rid
of them. The real sleepers are...... oh dear, must rush....