Field Recording Microphone

[[email protected]]

Hi,

I'm looking to purchase a microphone to do some field recording, and
after reading a couple of articles on the web, in particular this one:
http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200106.microphones.jtowne.html
I was thinking the Beyer M58 would be pretty good while fitting in my
budget.

Now, in my complete ignorance, I was wondering if this mic can be
plugged into the 3.5mm stereo plug of my MiniDisc recorder. Can anyone
confirm?

Secondary question: what's the standard technique to avoid the noise of
wind blowing in the mic? I'm trying to record in the open air, so this
is a common situation for me.

Thanks!

Raph

[Mike Rivers]

wrote:

> I was thinking the Beyer M58 would be pretty good while fitting in my
> budget.


You might live in a part of the world where this is a more common mic.
I've never seen one in the US other than in catalogs. I suppose it's
just fine if it's available and suits your budget.

> Now, in my complete ignorance, I was wondering if this mic can be
> plugged into the 3.5mm stereo plug of my MiniDisc recorder. Can anyone
> confirm?

Most people who do this get a custom cable or adapter that has an XLR
connector on one end and a mini phone plug on the other. You should
check your recorder to see if it has "plug-in power" and if it does, if
you can turn it off. While it's unlikely to do any damage, it's not a
good idea to power a dynamic mic from an unbalanced (not phantom power)
input.

> Secondary question: what's the standard technique to avoid the noise of
> wind blowing in the mic?

Get out of the wind. A simple foam windscreen can help a little, but
there are more effective (and much more expensive) wind screens if you
need one. They surround the whole microphone, and are usually called
"blimp" or "dead rat" because of their appearance.

[[email protected]]

Mike Rivers a écrit :

> wrote:
> You might live in a part of the world where this is a more common mic.
> I've never seen one in the US other than in catalogs. I suppose it's
> just fine if it's available and suits your budget.

An AKG C-1000 seems good too (and within budget), but I fear a
condenser mic may be too fragile to take away on an outdoor hike.

>While it's unlikely to do any damage, it's not a
> good idea to power a dynamic mic from an unbalanced (not phantom power)
> input.

Do you mean that the 3V power-in of the mic input is not equivalent to
phantom power (I have a Sony MZ-RH910)? Would it support a condenser
mic (it works with the cheap Sony ECM-DS70P condenser mic I currently
have) ?

Sorry if my questions seem really basic, but I'm really just
discovering.

> A simple foam windscreen can help a little, but
> there are more effective (and much more expensive) wind screens if you
> need one. They surround the whole microphone, and are usually called
> "blimp" or "dead rat" because of their appearance.

I thought this might be the case. I tried to shield with my jacket, but
that actually altered the sound I was trying to capture.

Thanks for the help!

Raph

[Laurence Payne]

On 29 Aug 2006 06:30:49 -0700, wrote:

>Do you mean that the 3V power-in of the mic input is not equivalent to
>phantom power (I have a Sony MZ-RH910)? Would it support a condenser
>mic (it works with the cheap Sony ECM-DS70P condenser mic I currently
>have) ?

It's a sort of phantom power. But not the 48v phantom power normally
associated with studio microphones.

[Mike Rivers]

wrote:

> An AKG C-1000 seems good too (and within budget), but I fear a
> condenser mic may be too fragile to take away on an outdoor hike.

An AKG C1000 isn't too good for anything, even stirring paint. <g> But
it would not be an appropriate interview microphone.

> Do you mean that the 3V power-in of the mic input is not equivalent to
> phantom power (I have a Sony MZ-RH910)? Would it support a condenser
> mic (it works with the cheap Sony ECM-DS70P condenser mic I currently
> have) ?

It's a completely different powering system. It works with mics that
are designed to use it, but true phantom power mics will not operate
from 3V. The AKG C1000 can use an internal battery, so you could use it
with your recorder, but this isn't typical of condenser mics.

[Eric Toline]

Field Recording Microphone

Group: rec.audio.pro Date: Mon, Aug 28, 2006, 11:25pm (EDT-3) From:

Hi,
I'm looking to purchase a microphone to do some field recording, and
after reading a couple of articles on the web, in particular this one:
http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200106.microphones.jtowne.html
I was thinking the Beyer M58 would be pretty good while fitting in my
budget.<<<<<<<<<

The Beyer M-58 is a fairly popular hand held omni directional microphone
mainly used for news interviews in the field. It has a lower out put
than most other HH mics.



Now, in my complete ignorance, I was wondering if this mic can be
plugged into the 3.5mm stereo plug of my MiniDisc recorder. Can anyone
confirm?<<<<<<<<<<<<<

With the proper adapter cable (xlr-f to 3.5mm) wired correctly it will
work. How much level you can get with out excessive pre-amp noise
depends on your recorder.



Secondary question: what's the standard technique to avoid the noise of
wind blowing in the mic? I'm trying to record in the open air, so this
is a common situation for me.<<<<<<<<

A foam wind screen will not help, you will need at least a specifically
made wind screen to keep wind noise down. The Rycote Softie come to
mind.

Be advised that the M58 sells for about $260 here and the softie is
about the same price.

Eric

[Richard Crowley]

> wrote ...
> An AKG C-1000 seems good too (and within budget),
> but I fear a condenser mic may be too fragile to take
> away on an outdoor hike.

The C1000 is frequently discussed here (suggest looking
at the Google Groups archives). Seldom praised as "good".
There are several rugged dynamic microphones that would
seem appropriate for an outdoor hike.

> Do you mean that the 3V power-in of the mic input is not
> equivalent to phantom power (I have a Sony MZ-RH910)?

"Phantom power" is generally defined as 48 volts applied
to each side of a balanced microphone circuit. What your
MD recorder (and other similar small recording devices)
use is commonly called "plug-in power", or 3-5 volts applied
to the unbalanced mic input. This is typically used for
inexpensive (and even some high-end) electret condenser
mic capsule based microphones.

> Would it support a condenser mic (it works with the cheap
> Sony ECM-DS70P condenser mic I currently have) ?

It would support the small consumer-type microphones, but
not the professional microphones that are expecting 48v
phantom power.

Applying either 48v phantom power or 3v plug-in power to
a dynamic microphone is NOT a good idea and has the live
possibility of damaging it significantly.

> I thought this might be the case. I tried to shield with my
> jacket, but that actually altered the sound I was trying to
> capture.

The materials used for windscreens (foam, fabric, fur, etc.)
are specially selected for their ability to allow the sound
to pass through while attenuating the effect of the wind.
Your jacket wouldn't keep you warm if it were made the
same way as most windscreens.

[Steve King]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote ...
SNIP
>
> Applying either 48v phantom power or 3v plug-in power to a dynamic
> microphone is NOT a good idea and has the live possibility of damaging it
> significantly.
>

I have used Shure SM7, SM57, RE20, RE15, EV 655, EV 635, and Heil D30
dynamic microphones in dozens of recordings to MiniDisc and Prosumer MiniDV
cameras, all of which supply the approx. 3 VDC plug-in power in question.
No mic has ever been damaged. The sound of the microphones seems not to be
affected. So, while it may not be the best idea if it can be avoided, using
dynamics with this kind of equipment is of such a low risk that I'll keep
doing it. Has anyone ever personally experienced microphone damage from 3
VDC plug-in power? I'd like to hear about it.

Steve King

[Richard Crowley]

"Eric Toline" wrote ...
> Be advised that the M58 sells for about $260 here and the softie is
> about the same price.

OTOH, these people make sensibly-priced foam and
fur windscreens... http://www.olsenaudio.com/

[Richard Crowley]

"Steve King" wrote ...
> I have used Shure SM7, SM57, RE20, RE15, EV 655, EV 635, and Heil D30
> dynamic microphones in dozens of recordings to MiniDisc and Prosumer
> MiniDV cameras, all of which supply the approx. 3 VDC plug-in power in
> question. No mic has ever been damaged. The sound of the microphones
> seems not to be affected. So, while it may not be the best idea if it
> can be avoided, using dynamics with this kind of equipment is of such
> a low risk that I'll keep doing it. Has anyone ever personally
> experienced microphone damage from 3 VDC plug-in power? I'd like to
> hear about it.

It will likely kill most ribbons. Since we don't know what
kind of microphone(s) people will try using, recommending
connecting unknown microphones to even 3v plug-in power
seems irresponsible to me.

[Roy W. Rising]

"Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> "Steve King" wrote ...
> > I have used Shure SM7, SM57, RE20, RE15, EV 655, EV 635, and Heil D30
> > dynamic microphones in dozens of recordings to MiniDisc and Prosumer
> > MiniDV cameras, all of which supply the approx. 3 VDC plug-in power in
> > question. No mic has ever been damaged. The sound of the microphones
> > seems not to be affected. So, while it may not be the best idea if it
> > can be avoided, using dynamics with this kind of equipment is of such
> > a low risk that I'll keep doing it. Has anyone ever personally
> > experienced microphone damage from 3 VDC plug-in power? I'd like to
> > hear about it.
>
> It will likely kill most ribbons. Since we don't know what
> kind of microphone(s) people will try using, recommending
> connecting unknown microphones to even 3v plug-in power
> seems irresponsible to me.

Ribbons mics have transformers between the ribbon and the output. 3v
across the secondary of the transformer is no worse than across the element
of a non-transformer dynamic. Still it's NOT a good idea. A 10 microfarad
capacitor in series with the mic will block the DC and pass all of the
useful audio frequencies.

BTW ~ What are you planning to record? My choice would be an EV RE55 for
the most accurate, flattest, widest range pickup. The EV DO54 / PL9 is the
same element with a little less LF performance. All three of these appear
on eBay now and then.

All windsocks affect very high frequencies. A little HF shelving digital
EQ, carefully applied later, can make up for the losses.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Richard Crowley]

"Roy W. Rising" wrote ...
> Ribbons mics have transformers between the ribbon and the output. 3v
> across the secondary of the transformer is no worse than across the
> element
> of a non-transformer dynamic. Still it's NOT a good idea.

Right, but the turn-on (or plug-in) transients, when
multiplied by the transformer ratio, have reputedly
blown ribbons.

And even if dynamic voice coils can take the current,
the effect of displacing the coil/diaphragm (due to the
DC component) is unlikely to be beneficial for the
functionality or performance of the microphone.

[Mike Rivers]

Richard Crowley wrote:

> Right, but the turn-on (or plug-in) transients, when
> multiplied by the transformer ratio, have reputedly
> blown ribbons.

In the case of 48V phantom power and a shorted cable so that the 48V is
applied directly across the transformer, yes, that can, and has
happened. But it really doesn't happen except for "accidents" when
phantom power is applied to a ribbon mic. Proper phantom power has no
potential difference between the transformer terminals.

In the case of the plug-in power, while you're only dealing with 3V,
the source is unbalanced and will therefore necessarily the voltage
will always be applied across the transformer. Whether 3V will hurt the
mic or not is something with which I'd rather not experiment.

It's of course possible to put a capacitor in series with the mic input
to block the DC. But then who wants to use a ribbon mic for field
recording interviews anyway?

[Steve King]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Richard Crowley wrote:
>
SNIP
>
> In the case of the plug-in power, while you're only dealing with 3V,
> the source is unbalanced and will therefore necessarily the voltage
> will always be applied across the transformer. Whether 3V will hurt the
> mic or not is something with which I'd rather not experiment.
>
> It's of course possible to put a capacitor in series with the mic input
> to block the DC. But then who wants to use a ribbon mic for field
> recording interviews anyway?

No one I imagine. The OP only cited dynamics.

Steve King

[+]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking to purchase a microphone to do some field recording, and
> after reading a couple of articles on the web, in particular this one:
> http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200106.microphones.jtowne.html
> I was thinking the Beyer M58 would be pretty good while fitting in my
> budget.
>
> Now, in my complete ignorance, I was wondering if this mic can be
> plugged into the 3.5mm stereo plug of my MiniDisc recorder. Can anyone
> confirm?
>
> Secondary question: what's the standard technique to avoid the noise of
> wind blowing in the mic? I'm trying to record in the open air, so this
> is a common situation for me.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Raph
>

My 2c:
http://www.perloset.com/eindex.htm
S1 and a batterybox to use line-in.
I made mine myself.
http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=11254&hl=

[Mike Rivers]

Here's a microphone in the field. NOT a recommendation, though:

http://tinyurl.com/fgkdb

[Paul Kotheimer]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hi,
>
> I'm looking to purchase a microphone to do some field recording, and
> after reading a couple of articles on the web, in particular this one:
> http://www.transom.org/tools/recording_interviewing/200106.microphones.jtowne.html
> I was thinking the Beyer M58 would be pretty good while fitting in my
> budget.
>
> Now, in my complete ignorance, I was wondering if this mic can be
> plugged into the 3.5mm stereo plug of my MiniDisc recorder. Can anyone
> confirm?


I just wanted to chime in and recommend the sony ECM-MS957 stereo mic, which
is basically made for the MD recorder or mini-DV camera "plug-in power"
jacks. I work in a university multimedia studio and this is our lendable
field-recorder setup to faculty. It's a no brainer and makes very good
recordings. And it'll be in stereo. There is also a smaller ECM-MS mic,
which is like a third of the cost if I remember correctly, that also does a
decent job.

Paul

[Scott Dorsey]

In article >,
Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>On 29 Aug 2006 06:30:49 -0700, wrote:
>
>>Do you mean that the 3V power-in of the mic input is not equivalent to
>>phantom power (I have a Sony MZ-RH910)? Would it support a condenser
>>mic (it works with the cheap Sony ECM-DS70P condenser mic I currently
>>have) ?
>
>It's a sort of phantom power. But not the 48v phantom power normally
>associated with studio microphones.

No, it is NOT a sort of phantom power. Plug-in power has NOTHING to
do with phantom power. By definition, phantom power systems apply
common-mode power to a differentially balanced audio line. If the audio
is unbalanced, you cannot have the phantom channel.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Laurence Payne]

On 30 Aug 2006 18:59:42 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>>It's a sort of phantom power. But not the 48v phantom power normally
>>associated with studio microphones.
>
>No, it is NOT a sort of phantom power. Plug-in power has NOTHING to
>do with phantom power. By definition, phantom power systems apply
>common-mode power to a differentially balanced audio line. If the audio
>is unbalanced, you cannot have the phantom channel.

Yes Sir!

[Lorin David Schultz]

Mike Rivers > wrote:

> Here's a microphone in the field. NOT a recommendation, though:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/fgkdb

Did you look through the other pics from that man? If ever there was an
argument for avoiding the brown acid...

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

[Mike Rivers]

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

> Did you look through the other pics from that man? If ever there was an
> argument for avoiding the brown acid...

No, I'm not that clever, or that curious. But I did like the other
photo he posted the link to in this newsgroup: "Microphone body in
natural habitat."

;)

[Laurence Payne]

On 31 Aug 2006 04:09:42 -0700, "Mike Rivers" >
wrote:

>> Did you look through the other pics from that man? If ever there was an
>> argument for avoiding the brown acid...
>
>No, I'm not that clever, or that curious.

Are you sure this lovable "oh I'm such a techno-fool!" pose is
appropriate now you're moving into software reviewing :-)

[Mike Rivers]

Laurence Payne wrote:

> Are you sure this lovable "oh I'm such a techno-fool!" pose is
> appropriate now you're moving into software reviewing :-)

I'll be back to my old self as sone as this reveiw is done.

[Steve House]

While plug-in power may not damage a dynamic mic, I think its effect
on the sound quality, if any, would depend on whether the mic had an
internal transformer or not. The RE20 has one; the RE16, -27, -50 do
not. A constant DC current flowing in the secondary winding of a
transformer would not cause any current to flow in the primary and
back to mic's voice coil except at the moment of connection or
disconnection. But in a transformerless mic, particularly with some
XLR to miniplug adapter wiring schemes, the plug-in power voltage
would be applied directly across the voice coil, causing a constant DC
current to flow through the coil. This in turn would cause it to move
either in or out until the force generated is balanced by increased
tension in the diaphram. I can't help but think that would not be
good for the quality of the mic's output.

The presence of a blocking capacitor in the signal lead in a balanced
to unbalanced adapter makes the issue moot by preventing the voltage
getting to the mic.

Steve House



On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:23:02 -0500, "Steve King"
> wrote:

>
>"Richard Crowley" > wrote in message
...
>> > wrote ...
>SNIP
>>
>> Applying either 48v phantom power or 3v plug-in power to a dynamic
>> microphone is NOT a good idea and has the live possibility of damaging it
>> significantly.
>>
>
>I have used Shure SM7, SM57, RE20, RE15, EV 655, EV 635, and Heil D30
>dynamic microphones in dozens of recordings to MiniDisc and Prosumer MiniDV
>cameras, all of which supply the approx. 3 VDC plug-in power in question.
>No mic has ever been damaged. The sound of the microphones seems not to be
>affected. So, while it may not be the best idea if it can be avoided, using
>dynamics with this kind of equipment is of such a low risk that I'll keep
>doing it. Has anyone ever personally experienced microphone damage from 3
>VDC plug-in power? I'd like to hear about it.
>
>Steve King
>