Monitors placement

[Andy]

Hello,

I'm wondering what the correct way of placing monitors like the Klein &
Hummel O300 is. Here's a photo:

http://www.klein-hummel.de/produkte/o300d/bilder/o300d_front_hq.jpg

The thing that confuses me is that the 3 drivers aren't aligned and it seems
to me that neither horizontal nor vertical placement looks right.

Thanks,
Andy

[YourHomeStudioDotCom]

The picture was so big, I couldn't get a look at the whole thing at one
time but just guessing, I would say that horizontal would be the way to
go since you want all the speakers lined up with your ears.

Thomas
www.yourhomestudio.com

Free Home Studio Dot Com


Andy wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm wondering what the correct way of placing monitors like the Klein &
> Hummel O300 is. Here's a photo:
>
> http://www.klein-hummel.de/produkte/o300d/bilder/o300d_front_hq.jpg
>
> The thing that confuses me is that the 3 drivers aren't aligned and it seems
> to me that neither horizontal nor vertical placement looks right.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy

[Laurence Payne]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 21:57:54 +0200, "Andy" > wrote:

>I'm wondering what the correct way of placing monitors like the Klein &
>Hummel O300 is. Here's a photo:
>
>http://www.klein-hummel.de/produkte/o300d/bilder/o300d_front_hq.jpg
>
>The thing that confuses me is that the 3 drivers aren't aligned and it seems
>to me that neither horizontal nor vertical placement looks right.

Does the logo rotate? If not, there's an obvious clue :-)

And, looking at the manual (on the same web site) there's an even
stronger clue in the orientation of the writing on the back panel.
Fairly conclusive, I should say :-)

If you want even more, here's the manual.
http://www.klein-hummel.com/produkte/o300d/dokumente/o300d_e.pdf
It spells it out, and even tells you which speaker to put which side.

[Mike Rivers]

Andy wrote:

> I'm wondering what the correct way of placing monitors like the Klein &
> Hummel O300 is.

> The thing that confuses me is that the 3 drivers aren't aligned and it seems
> to me that neither horizontal nor vertical placement looks right.

The manufacturer probalby has a recommendation. Follow it. K&H is good
stuff.

Or you could just try them one way, then the other way, and decide
which sounds better to you.

[RD Jones]

Andy wrote:

> I'm wondering what the correct way of placing monitors like the Klein &
> Hummel O300 is. Here's a photo:
>
> http://www.klein-hummel.de/produkte/o300d/bilder/o300d_front_hq.jpg
>
> The thing that confuses me is that the 3 drivers aren't aligned and it seems
> to me that neither horizontal nor vertical placement looks right.

In a 3way system alignment of the highs to the mids
is more important than the mids to lows for best imaging.
The photo is correct as depicted with the tweeter centered
vertically above the midrange driver.


rd

[Andy]

YourHomeStudioDotCom wrote:

> The picture was so big, I couldn't get a look at the whole thing at one
> time but just guessing, I would say that horizontal would be the way to
> go since you want all the speakers lined up with your ears.
>
> Thomas

Here's the O300 page:

http://www.klein-hummel.de/produkte/o300d/html/o300d_g.htm

Andy

[Andy]

Laurence Payne wrote:

> Does the logo rotate? If not, there's an obvious clue :-)

I don't know as I don't actually own them. I found a pair of O98's which are
very similar.

> And, looking at the manual (on the same web site) there's an even
> stronger clue in the orientation of the writing on the back panel.
> Fairly conclusive, I should say :-)

Yes, good point.

> If you want even more, here's the manual.
> http://www.klein-hummel.com/produkte/o300d/dokumente/o300d_e.pdf
> It spells it out, and even tells you which speaker to put which side.

I'll take a look, thanks.

Andy

[Andy]

Mike Rivers wrote:

> The manufacturer probalby has a recommendation. Follow it. K&H is good
> stuff.
>
> Or you could just try them one way, then the other way, and decide
> which sounds better to you.

That's good advice but, as I mentioned in another post, I found a pair of
O98's (discontinued), similar to the O300. The thing I was wondering about
is the drivers arrangement: it looks like either way I place the boxes, each
couple of drivers (low, mid, high) won't be equidistant from the listener.

Andy

[Andy]

RD Jones wrote:

> In a 3way system alignment of the highs to the mids
> is more important than the mids to lows for best imaging.
> The photo is correct as depicted with the tweeter centered
> vertically above the midrange driver.
>
>
> rd

So, I would have the LF driver on the right a little closer to me that the
one on the left.

Andy

[Mike Rivers]

Andy wrote:

> That's good advice but, as I mentioned in another post, I found a pair of
> O98's (discontinued), similar to the O300. The thing I was wondering about
> is the drivers arrangement: it looks like either way I place the boxes, each
> couple of drivers (low, mid, high) won't be equidistant from the listener.

That will always be the case except if the drivers are coaxial. But
it's still good advice. Contact the manufacturer and ask for a
recommendation. K-H is now a Sennheiser company so it might be a little
easier to get hold of them and get the information you seek.

[Laurence Payne]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2006 23:27:26 +0200, "Andy" > wrote:

>So, I would have the LF driver on the right a little closer to me that the
>one on the left.

Why? The speakers come as a mirror-image pair. Setup can be
perfectly symmetrical.

Anyway, one of the virtues of good monitors is a wide "sweet spot".
You weren't thinking of putting your head in a clamp were you?

[Andy]

Laurence Payne wrote:

> Why? The speakers come as a mirror-image pair. Setup can be
> perfectly symmetrical.
>
> Anyway, one of the virtues of good monitors is a wide "sweet spot".
> You weren't thinking of putting your head in a clamp were you?

Well, not exactly...

[Andy]

Mike Rivers wrote:

CUT

> K-H is now a Sennheiser company so it might be a little
> easier to get hold of them and get the information you seek.

That's interesting, I didn't know that.

Andy

[Laurence Payne]

On 28 Aug 2006 15:13:58 -0700, "Mike Rivers" >
wrote:

>That will always be the case except if the drivers are coaxial. But
>it's still good advice. Contact the manufacturer and ask for a
>recommendation. K-H is now a Sennheiser company so it might be a little
>easier to get hold of them and get the information you seek.

Mike - I gave him a link to the manual several posts ago. It's very
clear on setup.

[Andy]

Laurence Payne wrote:


> Why? The speakers come as a mirror-image pair. Setup can be
> perfectly symmetrical.

CUT

That's right, sorry I didn't download the manual right away and look for the
info.

Andy

[Roy W. Rising]

"Andy" > wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I'm wondering what the correct way of placing monitors like the Klein &
> Hummel O300 is. Here's a photo:
>
> http://www.klein-hummel.de/produkte/o300d/bilder/o300d_front_hq.jpg
>
> The thing that confuses me is that the 3 drivers aren't aligned and it
> seems to me that neither horizontal nor vertical placement looks right.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy

How it looks is not more important than how it sounds. The problem with
monitors that don't use a verticle array is acoustical phase distortion at
each ear from different arrival times of sounds produced by two or more
offset drivers. Here, the sounds from 1/2- to 2 times the LF/MF crossover
frequency will be affected. Hence, there is NO correct placement for these
systems. I'm sorry.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Laurence Payne]

On 28 Aug 2006 23:28:13 GMT, Roy W. Rising >
wrote:

>How it looks is not more important than how it sounds. The problem with
>monitors that don't use a verticle array is acoustical phase distortion at
>each ear from different arrival times of sounds produced by two or more
>offset drivers. Here, the sounds from 1/2- to 2 times the LF/MF crossover
>frequency will be affected. Hence, there is NO correct placement for these
>systems. I'm sorry.

Nonetheless, they're generally accepted as good speakers. Your theory
may be correct, but the effect is negligible.

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>On 28 Aug 2006 23:28:13 GMT, Roy W. Rising >
>wrote:
>
>>How it looks is not more important than how it sounds. The problem with
>>monitors that don't use a verticle array is acoustical phase distortion at
>>each ear from different arrival times of sounds produced by two or more
>>offset drivers. Here, the sounds from 1/2- to 2 times the LF/MF crossover
>>frequency will be affected. Hence, there is NO correct placement for these
>>systems. I'm sorry.
>
>Nonetheless, they're generally accepted as good speakers. Your theory
>may be correct, but the effect is negligible.

HINT: crossovers are not zero group-delay devices. Some of them aren't even
minimum phase, even.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Chris Hornbeck]

On 30 Aug 2006 20:56:14 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>>On 28 Aug 2006 23:28:13 GMT, Roy W. Rising >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>How it looks is not more important than how it sounds. The problem with
>>>monitors that don't use a verticle array is acoustical phase distortion at
>>>each ear from different arrival times of sounds produced by two or more
>>>offset drivers. Here, the sounds from 1/2- to 2 times the LF/MF crossover
>>>frequency will be affected. Hence, there is NO correct placement for these
>>>systems. I'm sorry.
>>
>>Nonetheless, they're generally accepted as good speakers. Your theory
>>may be correct, but the effect is negligible.
>
>HINT: crossovers are not zero group-delay devices. Some of them aren't even
>minimum phase, even.

And to make it even worse, neither are any drivers-in-boxes
being connected to. This whole discussion is fatally fuzzy.
Generalities need not apply.

Of course, sometimes fuzz is good, even is it gets in yer teeth.

Much thanks, as always,

Chris Hornbeck
"History consists of truths which in the end turn into lies,
while myth consists of lies which finally turn into truths."
- Jean Cocteau