Best $500 preamp?

[ad]

After some research, I have narrowed it down to the following two:

DAV BG1
FMR Really Nice Preamp

Does anybody have experience comparing the two? Any other worthy units
at this price? I am currently leaning toward the BG1.

[Mike Rivers]

ad wrote:

> DAV BG1
> FMR Really Nice Preamp
>
> Does anybody have experience comparing the two? Any other worthy units
> at this price? I am currently leaning toward the BG1.

Get it. We don't have enough people reporting on them yet. As to what's
the best, that depends on what mic or mics you'll be using it with, and
what you'll be recording. Mics sound different with different preamps.
Preamps sound different with different mics. You can't go wrong with
either one of those in general, but if you spent 50 hours or so really
listening critically, you might find that you prefer one over the other
for the work you do.

One thing that might help you make your decision is to consider where
each is made (and most easily bought and repaired if necessary) vs.
where you live.

[Federico]

If you are into DIY take a look at seven circle audio.
You can buy a kit and rackmout it for way less than 500$
F.

[david correia]

In article . com>,
"ad" > wrote:

> After some research, I have narrowed it down to the following two:
>
> DAV BG1
> FMR Really Nice Preamp
>
> Does anybody have experience comparing the two? Any other worthy units
> at this price? I am currently leaning toward the BG1.





Whatever happened to that guy who actually believed his $11 preamp
design was the equal of anything you could buy?




David Correia
www.Celebrationsound.com

[Paul Stamler]

"david correia" > wrote in message
...
>
> Whatever happened to that guy who actually believed his $11 preamp
> design was the equal of anything you could buy?

He crawled back under his rock when it was pointed out to him that his $11
didn't include little things like a power supply, input and output jacks, a
gain control pot good enough to last more than a year and a knob to put on
it, a box to put it in, or markup so the manufacturer and dealer can make
some money and stay in business.

Peace,
Paul

[Fletch]

Federico wrote:
> If you are into DIY take a look at seven circle audio.
> You can buy a kit and rackmout it for way less than 500$
> F.

Gotta URL for that?

--Fletch

[Roy W. Rising]

"Fletch" > wrote:
> Federico wrote:
> > If you are into DIY take a look at seven circle audio.
> > You can buy a kit and rackmout it for way less than 500$
> > F.
>
> Gotta URL for that?
>
> --Fletch

Analog Devices makes a preamp that's as good as anything out there. A
developer's kit cost about $50, the last time I checked. The latest
version is the SSM2019. Check it out at:
http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765_1075_SSM2019,00.html

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Scott Fraser]

> Gotta URL for that?>>

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm

Scott Fraser

[Richard Crowley]

"Roy W. Rising" wrote ...
> "Fletch" wrote:
>> Federico wrote:
>> > If you are into DIY take a look at seven circle audio.
>> > You can buy a kit and rackmout it for way less than 500$
>> > F.
>>
>> Gotta URL for that?
>>
>> --Fletch
>
> Analog Devices makes a preamp that's as good as anything out there. A
> developer's kit cost about $50, the last time I checked. The latest
> version is the SSM2019. Check it out at:
> http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765_1075_SSM2019,00.html

THAT Corp claims their 1510/1512 are pin-for-pin
with better performance than the SSM or INA parts
we consider to be the cream of the crop.

http://www.thatcorp.com/1500desc.html

Has anybody experimented and/or compared the performance
with the known good examples of mic preamps?

[Mike Rivers]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

> Analog Devices makes a preamp that's as good as anything out there.

Correction: Analog Devices makes a good mic preamp IC. What most people
call a "preamp" is not just the amplifier, but a box that amplifiers a
microphone to line level. There's more to it than a chip. Put that chip
in a box, mount connectors, a gain control, design or purchase a power
suppply, get it UL or CE approved, market it, and make a profit and you
have a $500 "mic preamp."

But then you might just like to build things yourself, take pride in
doing it, and enjoy a little saving because you're not paying yourself
for labor.

[Roy W. Rising]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote:
> Roy W. Rising wrote:
>
> > Analog Devices makes a preamp that's as good as anything out there.
>
> Correction: Analog Devices makes a good mic preamp IC. What most people
> call a "preamp" is not just the amplifier, but a box that amplifiers a
> microphone to line level. There's more to it than a chip. Put that chip
> in a box, mount connectors, a gain control, design or purchase a power
> suppply, get it UL or CE approved, market it, and make a profit and you
> have a $500 "mic preamp."
>
> But then you might just like to build things yourself, take pride in
> doing it, and enjoy a little saving because you're not paying yourself
> for labor.

I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply and
sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow Carl's Jr.'s
"Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar Mic Preamp". ;-)

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Kevin T]

david correia wrote:
> In article . com>,
> "ad" > wrote:
>
> > After some research, I have narrowed it down to the following two:
> >
> > DAV BG1
> > FMR Really Nice Preamp
> >
> > Does anybody have experience comparing the two? Any other worthy units
> > at this price? I am currently leaning toward the BG1.
>
>
>
>
>
> Whatever happened to that guy who actually believed his $11 preamp
> design was the equal of anything you could buy?
>
>
>
>
> David Correia
> www.Celebrationsound.com

My friend Dave Mosca at hilltopstudios.com recently built a Hamptone
preamp he really likes for about that $

Kevin T

[Mike Rivers]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

> I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply and
> sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow Carl's Jr.'s
> "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar Mic Preamp". ;-)

Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.

[Roy W. Rising]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote:
> Roy W. Rising wrote:
>
> > I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply
> > and sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow
> > Carl's Jr.'s "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar
> > Mic Preamp". ;-)
>
> Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
> had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
> refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.

You mean how it looks is more important than how it sounds, and it's OK to
sound how YOU like it without regard to quality? ;-)

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Laurence Payne]

On 29 Aug 2006 21:12:37 GMT, Roy W. Rising >
wrote:

>You mean how it looks is more important than how it sounds, and it's OK to
>sound how YOU like it without regard to quality? ;-)

Welcome to the wonderful world of marketing :-)

[jakdedert]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
> "Mike Rivers" > wrote:
>> Roy W. Rising wrote:
>>
>>> I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply
>>> and sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow
>>> Carl's Jr.'s "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar
>>> Mic Preamp". ;-)
>> Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
>> had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
>> refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.
>
> You mean how it looks is more important than how it sounds, and it's OK to
> sound how YOU like it without regard to quality? ;-)
>
I didn't read that (re pretty). He said it had to look pretty, but
didn't make any relation of appearance to sound. OTOH, why in hell
would *anybody* pay for an audio device which didn't sound good to them?

Would you?

jak

[Federico]

"Fletch" > ha scritto nel messaggio
ups.com...
>
> Federico wrote:
>> If you are into DIY take a look at seven circle audio.
>> You can buy a kit and rackmout it for way less than 500$
>> F.
>
> Gotta URL for that?
>
> --Fletch
>

http://www.seventhcirclestudios.com/SCA/SCA.htm
F.

[Mike Rivers]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

> You mean how it looks is more important than how it sounds, and it's OK to
> sound how YOU like it without regard to quality? ;-)

Yes. Let me explain.

I don't want a crummy looking piece of gear in my studio. If it looks
crummy, it's probably built poorly and may not be reliable. Also, it
doesn't build confidence of the clients. I'm not going to tell them "it
looks like **** but it sure souds great." That's just not professional.


I also don't want it if I don't like the way it sounds. You may thing
it sounds great, but that doesn't mean I'll think it sounds great. You
might be a drummer. <g>

[Frank Stearns]

Roy W. Rising > writes:

>"Mike Rivers" > wrote:
>> Roy W. Rising wrote:
>>
>> > Analog Devices makes a preamp that's as good as anything out there.
>>
>> Correction: Analog Devices makes a good mic preamp IC. What most people
>> call a "preamp" is not just the amplifier, but a box that amplifiers a
>> microphone to line level. There's more to it than a chip. Put that chip
>> in a box, mount connectors, a gain control, design or purchase a power
>> suppply, get it UL or CE approved, market it, and make a profit and you
>> have a $500 "mic preamp."
>>
>> But then you might just like to build things yourself, take pride in
>> doing it, and enjoy a little saving because you're not paying yourself
>> for labor.

>I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply and
>sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow Carl's Jr.'s
>"Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar Mic Preamp". ;-)

If you got a really *good* power supply (which often has as much to do
with the sound of analog electronics as anything and often cost much more
than the actual signal path parts), in a decent, well-shielded case with
well-designed boards and solid mechanical/electrical I/O, paid your sales
channel, kept the company doors open in such a way that inspired
confidence in the market place to buy from you in the first place, you
might find the $100 mark a little hard to make.

YMMV.

Frank Stearns
Mobile Audio

--

[Jim Gilliland]

Frank Stearns wrote:
>
> If you got a really *good* power supply (which often has as much to do
> with the sound of analog electronics as anything and often cost much more
> than the actual signal path parts), in a decent, well-shielded case with
> well-designed boards and solid mechanical/electrical I/O....

This might be a good thread in which to mention that Guitar Center has
discontinued carrying the Groove Tubes "Brick" preamp. If your local
store still has one, you can probably walk away with it for about $200.
That's a pretty good price for a solid unit that has good sound,
transformers at both input and output, and is a "true" tube preamp
(using a 12AX7, 12AU7, and 6205). It also has a reputation as an
excellent DI.

For those unfamiliar: http://groovetubes.com/assets/2084_The%20Brick.pdf

Note that the maximum gain is 55db, so it may not be suitable for some
ribbon mics with quiet sources.

[Scott Dorsey]

david correia > wrote:
>In article . com>,
> "ad" > wrote:
>
>> After some research, I have narrowed it down to the following two:
>>
>> DAV BG1
>> FMR Really Nice Preamp
>>
>> Does anybody have experience comparing the two? Any other worthy units
>> at this price? I am currently leaning toward the BG1.
>
>Whatever happened to that guy who actually believed his $11 preamp
>design was the equal of anything you could buy?

I imagine he found out that it cost a couple thousand dollars to actually
build his $11 preamp once you included the case, connectors, and power supply.
And he's not the first person that found that out the hard way.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Richard Crowley > wrote:
>>
>> Analog Devices makes a preamp that's as good as anything out there. A
>> developer's kit cost about $50, the last time I checked. The latest
>> version is the SSM2019. Check it out at:
>> http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765_1075_SSM2019,00.html
>
>THAT Corp claims their 1510/1512 are pin-for-pin
>with better performance than the SSM or INA parts
>we consider to be the cream of the crop.
>
>http://www.thatcorp.com/1500desc.html
>
>Has anybody experimented and/or compared the performance
>with the known good examples of mic preamps?

The THAT is definitely a big step up from the SSM2017. I don't know how
it compares with the Burr-Brown or AD replacements.

THAT should soon have distribution through Mouser if they don't already.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>Roy W. Rising wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply and
>> sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow Carl's Jr.'s
>> "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar Mic Preamp". ;-)
>
>Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
>had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
>refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.

And it has to be able to drive a 600 ohm load to +4, maybe +8....
--scott
>


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ben Bradley]

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 01:38:40 -0400, david correia
> wrote:

>In article . com>,
> "ad" > wrote:
>
>> After some research, I have narrowed it down to the following two:
>>
>> DAV BG1
>> FMR Really Nice Preamp
>>
>> Does anybody have experience comparing the two? Any other worthy units
>> at this price? I am currently leaning toward the BG1.
>
>
>
>
>
>Whatever happened to that guy who actually believed his $11 preamp
>design was the equal of anything you could buy?

You mean Kevin the Superspice Guy? He still haunts
sci.electronics.design.

>
>
>
>
>David Correia
>www.Celebrationsound.com

[Paul Stamler]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
> >Roy W. Rising wrote:
> >
> >> I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply
and
> >> sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow Carl's
Jr.'s
> >> "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar Mic Preamp".
;-)
> >
> >Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
> >had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
> >refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.
>
> And it has to be able to drive a 600 ohm load to +4, maybe +8....

*Nominal* level, that is...with at least 18dB headroom.

Peace,
Paul

[Geoff]

Ben Bradley wrote:

>
> You mean Kevin the Superspice Guy? He still haunts
> sci.electronics.design.


I kind of miss him. Kind of .....

geoff

[Roy W. Rising]

(Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> Mike Rivers > wrote:
> >Roy W. Rising wrote:
> >
> >> I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply
> >> and sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow
> >> Carl's Jr.'s "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar
> >> Mic Preamp". ;-)
> >
> >Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
> >had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
> >refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.
>
> And it has to be able to drive a 600 ohm load to +4, maybe +8....
> --scott
> >
You're dating yourself. It's been a long time since driving a 150- or 600
ohm load was the practice. Of course, extremely low source impedances are
bridged by such loads and most of today's line-level inputs are in the area
of 15K ohms or so. "+4" has ceased to be dBm and usually is dBv ... the
voltage equivalent without the ability (or need) to drive a real load. And
let's not forget the need for minimum headroom of 18 dB yielding an output
capability of +22 dBv. (Yes, +24 is more common for DAs and line amps.
+30 ~ 1 Watt ~ is not unusual.)

What we now are calling "preamps" used to be called "Remote Amps". The
classic example is the RCA OP-6 ... mic in, line out AND truly capable of
driving a Telco 600 ohm line.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Roy W. Rising]

"Paul Stamler" > wrote:
> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Mike Rivers > wrote:
> > >Roy W. Rising wrote:
> > >
> > >> I'm pretty sure I can package the IC with a UL approved power supply
> and
> > >> sell it at a healthy profit for $99.99. Maybe I could follow Carl's
> Jr.'s
> > >> "Six Dollar Burger" example and call it the "500 Dollar Mic Preamp".
> ;-)
> > >
> > >Send me your specs, and if I like them, I'll send you a check. But it
> > >had better look pretty. But I reserve the right to return it for a
> > >refund if I don't like the sound, even if you like the sound.
> >
> > And it has to be able to drive a 600 ohm load to +4, maybe +8....
>
> *Nominal* level, that is...with at least 18dB headroom.

Paul ~ You beat me to it. I love that word "Nominal" meaning "named". We
name a mic input "150 ohms" but in reality it usually is 2K ohms or
greater.
>
> Peace,
> Paul

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Paul Stamler]

"Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
...

> You're dating yourself. It's been a long time since driving a 150- or 600
> ohm load was the practice.

Yes, but if you want to use something like an LA2 or 1176 compressor or
their derivatives (and lots of people do), you need to be able to drive a
600 ohm load, because that's what they are.

Peace,
Paul

[Mike Rivers]

Roy W. Rising wrote:

> I love that word "Nominal" meaning "named". We
> name a mic input "150 ohms" but in reality it usually is 2K ohms or
> greater.

We do? Most mic preamps that you see today state the input impedance as
somewhere between about 1500 and 3000 ohms. We say that an amplifier
has a nominal output impedance of 8 ohms because at some frequency the
speaker connected to it will probably actually be 8 ohms and it won't
blow up when connected to an 8 ohm speaker. But we know that the acutal
source impedance is a few tenths of an ohm.

However, nominal levels are something else, and that's what Paul was
talking about. A device with a nominal +4 dBu output is expected to be
able to put out at least 20 dB more than that without pooping out. And
a device with a nominal +4 dBu input level can accept an input signal
20 dB higher than that without clipping. The 20 dB is the headroom.

[Roy W. Rising]

"Mike Rivers" > wrote:
>
> However, nominal levels are something else, and that's what Paul was
> talking about. A device with a nominal +4 dBu output is expected to be
> able to put out at least 20 dB more than that without pooping out. And
> a device with a nominal +4 dBu input level can accept an input signal
> 20 dB higher than that without clipping. The 20 dB is the headroom.

Yup. I said that in another post.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[GKB]

And it would be good if it is able to cash cheques as well ,
come to think about doing the wash wouldn't be so bad either

regards Greg

"Paul Stamler" > wrote in message
...
> "Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> You're dating yourself. It's been a long time since driving a 150- or
>> 600
>> ohm load was the practice.
>
> Yes, but if you want to use something like an LA2 or 1176 compressor or
> their derivatives (and lots of people do), you need to be able to drive a
> 600 ohm load, because that's what they are.
>
> Peace,
> Paul
>
>