Mixing Levels for Indie Festivals

[audiofile]

Hello,

I am about to start the Final Mix of an Indie Film for submissions to
festivals. My experience at this level is nonexistant, and I want to
make sure I am doing it right. What I do know is that I need to listen
to the Final Mix at the same levels that the intended audience would
listen at. My problem is that, when I crank it up to 85dB, WHOA!!!! I
am in an editing suite sized room and use near fields 3 feet from the
ol'noggin. Is there a compensation here I am not aware of? I know, a
theater would be ideal, but...you know...$$$!! Ultimately, the movie
will be a DVD. Do I mix each one at different levels(Festival vs.
Distro)? I used Pink Noise set to -20dB RMS -13 dB Peak on my PAZ
Meter, adjusted the output of my 002R, and it was a difference of 9
o'clock(where I typically work) and 12 o'clock. HUGE difference to my
ears and I feel like I'll cause serious damage in 15 minutes. Thanks in
advance!

[audiofile]

audiofile wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am about to start the Final Mix of an Indie Film for submissions to
> festivals. My experience at this level is nonexistant, and I want to
> make sure I am doing it right. What I do know is that I need to listen
> to the Final Mix at the same levels that the intended audience would
> listen at. My problem is that, when I crank it up to 85dB, WHOA!!!! I
> am in an editing suite sized room and use near fields 3 feet from the
> ol'noggin. Is there a compensation here I am not aware of? I know, a
> theater would be ideal, but...you know...$$$!! Ultimately, the movie
> will be a DVD. Do I mix each one at different levels(Festival vs.
> Distro)? I used Pink Noise set to -20dB RMS -13 dB Peak on my PAZ
> Meter, adjusted the output of my 002R, and it was a difference of 9
> o'clock(where I typically work) and 12 o'clock. HUGE difference to my
> ears and I feel like I'll cause serious damage in 15 minutes. Thanks in
> advance!

Sorry, I forgot my name....

Mike Clark

[Scott Smith]

"audiofile" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> audiofile wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> I am about to start the Final Mix of an Indie Film for submissions to
>> festivals. My experience at this level is nonexistant, and I want to
>> make sure I am doing it right. What I do know is that I need to listen
>> to the Final Mix at the same levels that the intended audience would
>> listen at. My problem is that, when I crank it up to 85dB, WHOA!!!! I
>> am in an editing suite sized room and use near fields 3 feet from the
>> ol'noggin. Is there a compensation here I am not aware of? I know, a
>> theater would be ideal, but...you know...$$$!! Ultimately, the movie
>> will be a DVD. Do I mix each one at different levels(Festival vs.
>> Distro)? I used Pink Noise set to -20dB RMS -13 dB Peak on my PAZ
>> Meter, adjusted the output of my 002R, and it was a difference of 9
>> o'clock(where I typically work) and 12 o'clock. HUGE difference to my
>> ears and I feel like I'll cause serious damage in 15 minutes. Thanks in
>> advance!
>
> Sorry, I forgot my name....
>
> Mike Clark

I find 85dB to be quite loud. In my opinion, it's no wonder so many
engineers are half deaf / deaf. I don't really have a solution for your
issue, but can sympathize with your predicament.

[[email protected]]

85 db is the standard level used for large Hollywood style dub stages,
where the speakers are quite far from one's ears, there is a large
volume of air to move around and the LCR drivers are behind a
perforated screen. In our (small) room w/ near fields I work at 80 db
and the results translate fine. The bitter truth is that you can only
guess at what your mix will sound like in a BIG room when listening in
a SMALL room. We often take our temp mixes to screening rooms or even
movie theatres for a reality check--these rooms aren't calibrated like
a dub stage but at least you get some idea of how it will work @ the
festival.

On the Digidesign Users Conference (DUC) look @ the "TDM Post and
Surround" forum. The first thread is called "Room Calibration" It is
a very long thread, but you should read all of it. Very illuminating.

Philip Perkins


Scott Smith wrote:
> "audiofile" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> >
> > audiofile wrote:
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> I am about to start the Final Mix of an Indie Film for submissions to
> >> festivals. My experience at this level is nonexistant, and I want to
> >> make sure I am doing it right. What I do know is that I need to listen
> >> to the Final Mix at the same levels that the intended audience would
> >> listen at. My problem is that, when I crank it up to 85dB, WHOA!!!! I
> >> am in an editing suite sized room and use near fields 3 feet from the
> >> ol'noggin. Is there a compensation here I am not aware of? I know, a
> >> theater would be ideal, but...you know...$$$!! Ultimately, the movie
> >> will be a DVD. Do I mix each one at different levels(Festival vs.
> >> Distro)? I used Pink Noise set to -20dB RMS -13 dB Peak on my PAZ
> >> Meter, adjusted the output of my 002R, and it was a difference of 9
> >> o'clock(where I typically work) and 12 o'clock. HUGE difference to my
> >> ears and I feel like I'll cause serious damage in 15 minutes. Thanks in
> >> advance!
> >
> > Sorry, I forgot my name....
> >
> > Mike Clark
>
> I find 85dB to be quite loud. In my opinion, it's no wonder so many
> engineers are half deaf / deaf. I don't really have a solution for your
> issue, but can sympathize with your predicament.

[Scott Dorsey]

audiofile > wrote:
>I am about to start the Final Mix of an Indie Film for submissions to
>festivals. My experience at this level is nonexistant, and I want to
>make sure I am doing it right. What I do know is that I need to listen
>to the Final Mix at the same levels that the intended audience would
>listen at. My problem is that, when I crank it up to 85dB, WHOA!!!! I
>am in an editing suite sized room and use near fields 3 feet from the
>ol'noggin. Is there a compensation here I am not aware of? I know, a
>theater would be ideal, but...you know...$$$!! Ultimately, the movie
>will be a DVD. Do I mix each one at different levels(Festival vs.
>Distro)? I used Pink Noise set to -20dB RMS -13 dB Peak on my PAZ
>Meter, adjusted the output of my 002R, and it was a difference of 9
>o'clock(where I typically work) and 12 o'clock. HUGE difference to my
>ears and I feel like I'll cause serious damage in 15 minutes. Thanks in
>advance!


You want to be mixing so the AVERAGE DIALOGUE LEVEL is measured around
85 dB SPL. Skip the pink noise testing. Don't worry about the music
levels. Set the control room fader so that you're seeing around 85 dB
on straight dialogue, then mix the music in so it's about right.
Leave the SPL meter on the console while you work.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[audiofile]

wrote:
> 85 db is the standard level used for large Hollywood style dub stages,
> where the speakers are quite far from one's ears, there is a large
> volume of air to move around and the LCR drivers are behind a
> perforated screen. In our (small) room w/ near fields I work at 80 db
> and the results translate fine. The bitter truth is that you can only
> guess at what your mix will sound like in a BIG room when listening in
> a SMALL room. We often take our temp mixes to screening rooms or even
> movie theatres for a reality check--these rooms aren't calibrated like
> a dub stage but at least you get some idea of how it will work @ the
> festival.
>
> On the Digidesign Users Conference (DUC) look @ the "TDM Post and
> Surround" forum. The first thread is called "Room Calibration" It is
> a very long thread, but you should read all of it. Very illuminating.
>
> Philip Perkins
>
Hello Philip!

Thanks. I have read that, but what bothers me now is that I am affraid
I am going to lower all my dialog and foley too low. I've gone through
the first ten minutes of a rough mix and am finding myself lowering all
the audio to a more pleasing level. To the point where the meters are
saying that my levels are well below -20 dBFS RMS. Am I now mixing too
low? or is this me adding to my dynamic range?

Thanks

Mike

[audiofile]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> You want to be mixing so the AVERAGE DIALOGUE LEVEL is measured around
> 85 dB SPL. Skip the pink noise testing. Don't worry about the music
> levels. Set the control room fader so that you're seeing around 85 dB
> on straight dialogue, then mix the music in so it's about right.
> Leave the SPL meter on the console while you work.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Intersting! I'll try to keep that in mind. But won't I get different
SPL readings if it's on the desk?

Mike

[Scott Dorsey]

audiofile > wrote:
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>> You want to be mixing so the AVERAGE DIALOGUE LEVEL is measured around
>> 85 dB SPL. Skip the pink noise testing. Don't worry about the music
>> levels. Set the control room fader so that you're seeing around 85 dB
>> on straight dialogue, then mix the music in so it's about right.
>> Leave the SPL meter on the console while you work.

>Intersting! I'll try to keep that in mind. But won't I get different
>SPL readings if it's on the desk?

Yes, but if you put it right up where your ears are, you won't be able to
read the scale. Having it on the desk is close enough if you have a big
enough room.

It would be nice if you had a properly calibrated playback system. But
you don't, and you won't. Don't sweat it. What you care is to have the
dialogue at about the right level and everything balanced to that.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."