suggestions on a mic for mono recording in small rehearsal room with vintage RCA ba-72 preamp

[Bonzi]

Hi all,

Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room. I'm just
trying to cut a simple "demo" in our rehearsal room and I realize that
I'll be getting the room sound. I don't mind that. I figured my RCA pre
with one good omni mic might sound better than a bunch of average mics
close mic'd through a mackie... I just want what gets recorded to sound
"pleasant" to the ear... I have great monitors at home (questeds) and
can do some computer EQ'ing later.

It probably should be a rather common modern mic that I could locate
pretty easily or rent somewhere.

Any recommendations? thanks AOT!

[Bonzi]

i should mention also that I don't have phantom power on the RCA pre...
I have it on my mackie ... but that would defeat the purpose... so any
suggestions on battery powered mics or easy to find/inexpensive
external phantom power supplies would be appreciated...

Bonzi wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
> micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room. I'm just
> trying to cut a simple "demo" in our rehearsal room and I realize that
> I'll be getting the room sound. I don't mind that. I figured my RCA pre
> with one good omni mic might sound better than a bunch of average mics
> close mic'd through a mackie... I just want what gets recorded to sound
> "pleasant" to the ear... I have great monitors at home (questeds) and
> can do some computer EQ'ing later.
>
> It probably should be a rather common modern mic that I could locate
> pretty easily or rent somewhere.
>
> Any recommendations? thanks AOT!

[Bonzi]

i should mention also that I don't have phantom power on the RCA pre...
I have it on my mackie ... but that would defeat the purpose... so any
suggestions on battery powered mics or easy to find/inexpensive
external phantom power supplies would be appreciated...

Bonzi wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
> micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room. I'm just
> trying to cut a simple "demo" in our rehearsal room and I realize that
> I'll be getting the room sound. I don't mind that. I figured my RCA pre
> with one good omni mic might sound better than a bunch of average mics
> close mic'd through a mackie... I just want what gets recorded to sound
> "pleasant" to the ear... I have great monitors at home (questeds) and
> can do some computer EQ'ing later.
>
> It probably should be a rather common modern mic that I could locate
> pretty easily or rent somewhere.
>
> Any recommendations? thanks AOT!

[Scott Dorsey]

Bonzi > wrote:
>
>Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
>micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room. I'm just
>trying to cut a simple "demo" in our rehearsal room and I realize that
>I'll be getting the room sound. I don't mind that. I figured my RCA pre
>with one good omni mic might sound better than a bunch of average mics
>close mic'd through a mackie... I just want what gets recorded to sound
>"pleasant" to the ear... I have great monitors at home (questeds) and
>can do some computer EQ'ing later.
>
>It probably should be a rather common modern mic that I could locate
>pretty easily or rent somewhere.

The problem with that approach is that you're going to be getting a lot
of the room sound, and if it's a small room sound, it'll be very boxy.

I'd ask to see if they had any Schoeps omnis, which should be pretty easy
to rent. Sennheiser MKH-20, DPA omnis, somthing like that. While you
are at it, get an EV 635A to try just for grins... if you ask nicely a
film sound rental outfit should throw a 635A in for free.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roy W. Rising]

"Bonzi" > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
> micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room. I'm just
> trying to cut a simple "demo" in our rehearsal room and I realize that
> I'll be getting the room sound. I don't mind that. I figured my RCA pre
> with one good omni mic might sound better than a bunch of average mics
> close mic'd through a mackie... I just want what gets recorded to sound
> "pleasant" to the ear... I have great monitors at home (questeds) and
> can do some computer EQ'ing later.
>
> It probably should be a rather common modern mic that I could locate
> pretty easily or rent somewhere.
>
> Any recommendations? thanks AOT!

Consider an EV RE15 (hypercardioid) or EV RE20 (cardioid). Your quest for
an omni suggests you're surrounding it with the musicians. A directional
mic pointed upward (or downward) in the middle of the group will help
reduce the room sound.

Any mic in this configuration will suffer from floor and/or ceiling
reflections. Whichever surface is "deadest" will determine upward or
downward direction ... point the mic at the deadest reflecting surface.

If you're micing the group from the "front", again the directional flat
dynamic with no off-axis coloration is the choice. Place a hypercardoid
about as far from the group as the group is wide. A cardioid can be about
2/3 of the group's width away. ~ Roy

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Mike Rivers]

Bonzi wrote:

> Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
> micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room.

A vintage preamp and vintage band surely deserves a vintage mic. An RCA
77DX would be just the ticket. But if the room's too small, anything
will suck .

[RD Jones]

> Bonzi wrote:

> > Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
> > micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room.

Mike Rivers wrote:

> A vintage preamp and vintage band surely deserves a vintage mic. An RCA
> 77DX would be just the ticket. But if the room's too small, anything
> will suck .

I'd think that a Figure 8 would be at least marginally
better than an omni at countering small-room-itis.
It'd certainly go along with the vintage theme.

rd

[Scott Dorsey]

Mike Rivers > wrote:
>Bonzi wrote:
>
>> Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
>> micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room.
>
>A vintage preamp and vintage band surely deserves a vintage mic. An RCA
>77DX would be just the ticket. But if the room's too small, anything
>will suck .

Yeah, but the 77DX really sounds lousy in omni mode. I have to admit I
hardly ever take any of mine out of figure-8. The whole pattern control
baffling gadgetry was ingeniously designed, but it really doesn't work
very well...
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[WillStG]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
> Consider an EV RE15 (hypercardioid) or EV RE20 (cardioid). Your quest for
> an omni suggests you're surrounding it with the musicians. A directional
> mic pointed upward (or downward) in the middle of the group will help
> reduce the room sound.
>
> Any mic in this configuration will suffer from floor and/or ceiling
> reflections. Whichever surface is "deadest" will determine upward or
> downward direction ... point the mic at the deadest reflecting surface.

You can kill some reflection problems by using a PZM on a wall, or
if you are using a lav size omni like a DPA 4060 or a Sennheiser omni
lav you can mount them on a wall too, for the same "boundary zone"
effect. They work pretty well for rehearsal room, "one of" rehearsal
tapes. You could try a pair as baffled omnis too, and just treat the
opposite wall. Being mounted on the boundary surface solves a lot of
problems, and can sound pretty good. A PCC which is Crown's
hemispheric Cardiod version of a PZM might work too.

Will Miho
NY TV/Audio Post/Music/Live Sound Guy
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

[Mike Rivers]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

> Yeah, but the 77DX really sounds lousy in omni mode. I have to admit I
> hardly ever take any of mine out of figure-8.

I would never consider it as anything but a figure-8. I don't know of
anyone who ever uses them otherwise. But that might be helpful in a
small room if he takes time to experiment with placement.

[Bonzi]

Hey, thanks everyone for the quick response. The room is at one of
those practice rental type places that has a "recording studio" as
well... probably mackie... anyways, I think there is a larger room we
could rent for that night... maybe the studio room. I haven't seen it
but it has to be bigger/less square than the "bedroom" we were in.

I'm hearing two different things as far as mics diaphrams are
concerned: large diaphragm vs. pzm/lavs. I'm into big and heavy
equipment... i believe in it... we've got a real hammond b3 with a
leslie and vintage amps...I've tried the cheap radio shack pzms years
ago and I wasn't impressed. I just want it to sound as pleasant as
possible with good amount of balls (provided it will be recorded
digitally).

And, yeah, I'd love to try a vintage RCA 77... I doubt I could find
anyone that owns one around here... so it will probably have to be the
more modern, more available mics like Scott Dorsey mentioned. If only I
had kept my teleU47 I wouldn't have this problem... (but then I
wouldn't be driving anywhere either).

It doesn't have to be a great recording... but anything's better than
that multi-tracked mackie sound... puke..

thanks again.

Bonzi.

Bonzi wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Can anyone suggest a good omni mic to use with my vintage BA-72 RCA
> micpre to record a blues band in a small rehearsal room. I'm just
> trying to cut a simple "demo" in our rehearsal room and I realize that
> I'll be getting the room sound. I don't mind that. I figured my RCA pre
> with one good omni mic might sound better than a bunch of average mics
> close mic'd through a mackie... I just want what gets recorded to sound
> "pleasant" to the ear... I have great monitors at home (questeds) and
> can do some computer EQ'ing later.
>
> It probably should be a rather common modern mic that I could locate
> pretty easily or rent somewhere.
>
> Any recommendations? thanks AOT!

[Scott Dorsey]

Bonzi > wrote:
>
>I'm hearing two different things as far as mics diaphrams are
>concerned: large diaphragm vs. pzm/lavs. I'm into big and heavy
>equipment... i believe in it... we've got a real hammond b3 with a
>leslie and vintage amps...I've tried the cheap radio shack pzms years
>ago and I wasn't impressed. I just want it to sound as pleasant as
>possible with good amount of balls (provided it will be recorded
>digitally).

That's because you're hearing about three different sounds. I'd personally
recommend a small diaphragm condenser because that's how you'll get the
most accurate sound of the room. But maybe you don't WANT the most accurate
sound of the room. Some folks are recommending PZMs, which can be a useful
tool to fix a single slap echo in a bad room, if that is a problem you have.
In general, the large diaphragm mikes are bizarre off-axis and will smear up
the room sound, which might be thing you want. I don't have your ears and
I haven't used your room.

>And, yeah, I'd love to try a vintage RCA 77... I doubt I could find
>anyone that owns one around here... so it will probably have to be the
>more modern, more available mics like Scott Dorsey mentioned. If only I
>had kept my teleU47 I wouldn't have this problem... (but then I
>wouldn't be driving anywhere either).

You can certainly rent one... AEA has them available for rental. What
makes them useful in your case, though, is mostly that they have a really
good figure-8 pattern and can be positioned to null out echoes from ceiling
and floor, or between two walls. In a bad room, having a figure-8 mike
can be a real miracle.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."