Magic cables

[Laurence Payne]

The (British) "Sunday Times" recently featured a "Best Buy" list of
premium audio and video cables. Gold-plated SCART plugs,
silver-plated oxygen-free copper interconnects, that sort of thing.
All satisfyingly expensive, so they MUST be better - right?

I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
(the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
open scams like "magic" cables).

I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
you know. (It's not until October though).

[David Grant]

"Laurence Payne" <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote in message
...
> The (British) "Sunday Times" recently featured a "Best Buy" list of
> premium audio and video cables. Gold-plated SCART plugs,
> silver-plated oxygen-free copper interconnects, that sort of thing.
> All satisfyingly expensive, so they MUST be better - right?
>
> I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
> (the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
> open scams like "magic" cables).
>
> I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
> associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
> you know. (It's not until October though).

Check the competing cables for an in-line low or hi-pass filter!



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[Don Pearce]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:24:42 +0100, Laurence Payne
<lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:

>The (British) "Sunday Times" recently featured a "Best Buy" list of
>premium audio and video cables. Gold-plated SCART plugs,
>silver-plated oxygen-free copper interconnects, that sort of thing.
>All satisfyingly expensive, so they MUST be better - right?
>
>I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
>(the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
>open scams like "magic" cables).
>
>I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
>associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
>you know. (It's not until October though).

Watch for the "usual" tricks. Subtle cues as to which are the "right"
cables, subtle increase in volume when the "right" cables are playing.
The list goes on.

If the guy in the room knows which cable is playing, cry foul.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

[Laurence Payne]

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:23:15 +0200, Chel van Gennip
> wrote:

>>> I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
>>> associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
>>> you know. (It's not until October though).
>>
>> Check the competing cables for an in-line low or hi-pass filter!
>
>Better take your own reference cables.

Won't they have any damp string? :-)

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>
>I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
>(the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
>open scams like "magic" cables).
>
>I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
>associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
>you know. (It's not until October though).

It's worth doing, if they can do a well-designed test. I have heard some
weird cable effects that I couldn't adequately explain, myself.
-s-cott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roy W. Rising]

Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
> The (British) "Sunday Times" recently featured a "Best Buy" list of
> premium audio and video cables. Gold-plated SCART plugs,
> silver-plated oxygen-free copper interconnects, that sort of thing.
> All satisfyingly expensive, so they MUST be better - right?
>
> I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
> (the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
> open scams like "magic" cables).
>
> I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
> associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
> you know. (It's not until October though).

Sometime back I read a reasonably scientific analysis of "special" vs.
"ordinary" cables that concluded there could be as much as a 2dB difference
at 20KHz. Then it asked how many folks could hear 20KHz, let alone discern
the difference! ~ Roy

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Paul Stamler]

"Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message
...

> Sometime back I read a reasonably scientific analysis of "special" vs.
> "ordinary" cables that concluded there could be as much as a 2dB
difference
> at 20KHz. Then it asked how many folks could hear 20KHz, let alone
discern
> the difference! ~ Roy

Those are two rather different questions. Many people who can't hear 20kHz
any more (like me) will still hear a difference when the level at 20kHz is
changed, presumably because levels at lower frequencies are also affected.
So are phase relationships; the jury's still out on the threshold of
audibility for those.

Peace,
Paul

[Arny Krueger]

"Roy W. Rising" > wrote in message


> Sometime back I read a reasonably scientific analysis of
> "special" vs. "ordinary" cables that concluded there
> could be as much as a 2dB difference at 20KHz.

Only on very snowy days in San Diego, or situations like guitar cables where
small changes in capacitance can cause such changed due the very high
impedances involved.

[Geoff]

Roy W. Rising wrote:
> Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>> The (British) "Sunday Times" recently featured a "Best Buy" list of
>> premium audio and video cables. Gold-plated SCART plugs,
>> silver-plated oxygen-free copper interconnects, that sort of thing.
>> All satisfyingly expensive, so they MUST be better - right?
>>
>> I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of
>> snake-oil (the ST has a fine reputation for investigative
>> journalism, cracking open scams like "magic" cables).
>>
>> I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
>> associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
>> you know. (It's not until October though).
>
> Sometime back I read a reasonably scientific analysis of "special" vs.
> "ordinary" cables that concluded there could be as much as a 2dB
> difference at 20KHz. Then it asked how many folks could hear 20KHz,
> let alone discern the difference!

If there is an audio cable with a 2dB differnce up to 20K, then it is broken
or totally incompetent design. I can't image HOW you could make such a
cable !

geoff

[Dr. Dolittle]

Geoff wrote:


> If there is an audio cable with a 2dB differnce up to 20K, then it is broken
> I can't image HOW you could make such a
> cable !

Easy, add a resister. ;)

[Scott Dorsey]

Dr. Dolittle > wrote:
>Geoff wrote:
>
>> If there is an audio cable with a 2dB differnce up to 20K, then it is broken
>> I can't image HOW you could make such a
>> cable !
>
>Easy, add a resister. ;)

Many of the high end cables have substantial series resistance, series
inductance, or shunt capacitance. Many of them are specifically designed
to alter the sound, so people can use them like tone controls. It seems
like an expensive and troublesome way to voice a system, but I won't make
fun of it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Ron(UK)]

Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> Many of the high end cables have substantial series resistance, series
> inductance, or shunt capacitance. Many of them are specifically designed
> to alter the sound, so people can use them like tone controls. It seems
> like an expensive and troublesome way to voice a system, but I won't make
> fun of it.

Aww go on, you know you want to ;)

Ron(UK)

[Roy W. Rising]

"Ron(UK)" > wrote:
> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> >
> > Many of the high end cables have substantial series resistance, series
> > inductance, or shunt capacitance. Many of them are specifically
> > designed to alter the sound, so people can use them like tone controls.
> > It seems like an expensive and troublesome way to voice a system, but I
> > won't make fun of it.
>
> Aww go on, you know you want to ;)
>
> Ron(UK)

Scott's key word is "or". Reactance exists in all cables, more in some
than in others. The rule of thumb for large plants is to keep cable
lengths under 2000 feet and drive them with about 56 ohms source impedance
for best response at the far end. ~ Roy

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[[email protected]]

If the test isn't "double blind" and repeated many times then it isn't
worth doing--it's a "demo", not any kind of test.

Philip Perkins


Roy W. Rising wrote:
> "Ron(UK)" > wrote:
> > Scott Dorsey wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Many of the high end cables have substantial series resistance, series
> > > inductance, or shunt capacitance. Many of them are specifically
> > > designed to alter the sound, so people can use them like tone controls.
> > > It seems like an expensive and troublesome way to voice a system, but I
> > > won't make fun of it.
> >
> > Aww go on, you know you want to ;)
> >
> > Ron(UK)
>
> Scott's key word is "or". Reactance exists in all cables, more in some
> than in others. The rule of thumb for large plants is to keep cable
> lengths under 2000 feet and drive them with about 56 ohms source impedance
> for best response at the far end. ~ Roy
>
> --
> ~ Roy
> "If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Chevdo]

In article . com>,
says...
>
>If the test isn't "double blind" and repeated many times then it isn't
>worth doing--it's a "demo", not any kind of test.
>

unfortunately, most people don't even know what 'double blind' means. Many
seem to think it has something to do with blindfolds, like the pepsi challenge.


>Philip Perkins
>
>
>Roy W. Rising wrote:
>> "Ron(UK)" > wrote:
>> > Scott Dorsey wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Many of the high end cables have substantial series resistance, series
>> > > inductance, or shunt capacitance. Many of them are specifically
>> > > designed to alter the sound, so people can use them like tone controls.
>> > > It seems like an expensive and troublesome way to voice a system, but I
>> > > won't make fun of it.
>> >
>> > Aww go on, you know you want to ;)
>> >
>> > Ron(UK)
>>
>> Scott's key word is "or". Reactance exists in all cables, more in some
>> than in others. The rule of thumb for large plants is to keep cable
>> lengths under 2000 feet and drive them with about 56 ohms source impedance
>> for best response at the far end. ~ Roy
>>
>> --
>> ~ Roy
>> "If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"
>

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom> wrote:
>> I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
>> (the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
>> open scams like "magic" cables).
>>
>> I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
>> associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
>> you know. (It's not until October though).
>
> It's worth doing, if they can do a well-designed test. I have heard some
> weird cable effects that I couldn't adequately explain, myself.
> -s-cott

I would expect differences between cables to show at the points of
connection.

--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk/ - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM

[[email protected]]

When they switch cables, have them turn the volume down to zero, then
bring it up until the listener tells them to stop.

the other Scott


Laurence Payne <lpayne1NOSPAM@dsldotpipexdotcom> wrote:
: The (British) "Sunday Times" recently featured a "Best Buy" list of
: premium audio and video cables. Gold-plated SCART plugs,
: silver-plated oxygen-free copper interconnects, that sort of thing.
: All satisfyingly expensive, so they MUST be better - right?

: I wrote to them, questioning their uncritical endorsement of snake-oil
: (the ST has a fine reputation for investigative journalism, cracking
: open scams like "magic" cables).

: I am now invited to a "testing session" at the headquarters of an
: associated Hi-Fi mag. Perhaps I WILL hear a difference. I'll let
: you know. (It's not until October though).

[Laurence Payne]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:03:01 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> wrote:

>I would expect differences between cables to show at the points of
>connection.

Meaning what?

[Geoff]

Dirk Bruere at NeoPax wrote:
>
> I would expect differences between cables to show at the points of
> connection.

Que ?

geoff

[Mike Rivers]

> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:03:01 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax > wrote:

> >I would expect differences between cables to show at the points of
> >connection.

Laurence Payne wrote:
> Meaning what?

Probalby that they fail at the junction between the cable and the
connector, or inside the connector, or at the connector itself. There
are a lot of crummy connectors out there today, not like back in the
day when every cable assembler bought Switchcraft, Amphenol, or Neutrik
because that's all there was.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Laurence Payne wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 02:03:01 +0100, Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
> > wrote:
>
>> I would expect differences between cables to show at the points of
>> connection.
>
> Meaning what?

Oxide barriers, ductility affecting contact area, and possible
semiconductor effects with respect to oxide (and sulphide, hydroxide
etc) layers. Not to mention minor thermoelectric potentials between
dissimilar metals as well as galvanic stuff going on in a moist atmosphere.

--
Dirk

http://www.onetribe.me.uk/ - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power on ResonanceFM