Sony Repair Suggestions

[Geoff Wood]

Mark A wrote:
>>
> Did they tell you what part needed to be replaced, that they no
> longer have? If there diagnosis is correct, then you should try to
> determine whether you can find the part, either new or from a
> salvaged player. Keep in mind that if a repair service does not have
> the part in stock, they order from Sony unless it is generic
> component.

Clean the lens, or have the laser replaced. Any competent service person
shoulsd be able to do it. You'll need to be able to find the laser part
number though.

My guess is that you were talking to somebody non-technical, who was put on
the spot and decided to take the easy way 'out'.

geoff

[Geoff Wood]

Lazarus wrote:
> If you change the machine to play the current discs your 300 old ones
> will no longer play.
>
> CDS are crap nowadays and are not as thick as they used to be.

Thicker CDs are much better. They sound less thin. More depth.

geoff

[Peter]

Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES CD
player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the fact
that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts for
the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It plays
about 300 other CDs without any problems.

Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
"reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
where it might be within the USA.

Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.

[RandB]

For the amount of money it would cost to have the darn thing packed and
shipped from Mail Boxes, Etc., you could buy a new one.

randy

"Peter" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES
CD
> player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the
fact
> that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts
for
> the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
> California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
> recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It
plays
> about 300 other CDs without any problems.
>
> Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
> "reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
> where it might be within the USA.
>
> Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.
>
>
>

[Mark A]

"Peter" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES
CD
> player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the
fact
> that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts
for
> the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
> California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
> recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It
plays
> about 300 other CDs without any problems.
>
> Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
> "reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
> where it might be within the USA.
>
> Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.
>
Did they tell you what part needed to be replaced, that they no longer have?
If there diagnosis is correct, then you should try to determine whether you
can find the part, either new or from a salvaged player. Keep in mind that
if a repair service does not have the part in stock, they order from Sony
unless it is generic component.

[Mark A]

"Geoff Wood" -nospam> wrote in message
...
> Mark A wrote:
> >>
> > Did they tell you what part needed to be replaced, that they no
> > longer have? If there diagnosis is correct, then you should try to
> > determine whether you can find the part, either new or from a
> > salvaged player. Keep in mind that if a repair service does not have
> > the part in stock, they order from Sony unless it is generic
> > component.
>
> Clean the lens, or have the laser replaced. Any competent service person
> shoulsd be able to do it. You'll need to be able to find the laser part
> number though.
>
> My guess is that you were talking to somebody non-technical, who was put
on
> the spot and decided to take the easy way 'out'.
>
> geoff
>
Keep in mind that most manufacturers like Sony have flat rate pricing for
repair of items out of warranty, regardless of what is wrong with it.
Sometimes they will you send you a refurbished item in exchange.

I believe that he was quoted $216 for the repair. At those prices, they
replace parts, and don't just clean them.

But for less than $300, one could probably purchase a new one with much
better electronics, especially the D/A conversion circuits. Also a new one
would play CD-R's, which I doubt the old one does.

[Lazarus]

If you change the machine to play the current discs your 300 old ones will
no longer play.

CDS are crap nowadays and are not as thick as they used to be.

If you want to play the current cds and are willing to take the chance that
it wont play your old cds you can adjust the focus of the laser yourself.

Open the machine and follow the ribbon cable from the laser pick up assembly
to the PCB where it plugs in.

At this location on the PCB you will see one or two small screws which are
variable resistors.....turn them until your current discs play

But be warned you may now have problems with your older discs!

Sony and others will not admit it but thats why they refused to fix
it....what you ask is basically very very difficult to do on an older
machine

Anything older than 12 months these days is "old"


"Peter" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES
CD
> player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the
fact
> that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts
for
> the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
> California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
> recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It
plays
> about 300 other CDs without any problems.
>
> Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
> "reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
> where it might be within the USA.
>
> Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.
>
>
>

[Mark D. Zacharias]

>
> Open the machine and follow the ribbon cable from the laser pick up
assembly
> to the PCB where it plugs in.
>
> At this location on the PCB you will see one or two small screws which are
> variable resistors.....turn them until your current discs play

This is _really_ bad advice. The laser pickup can easily be ruined, and it
may not even be your problem. Any decent repair shop who is familiar with
Sony products ought to be able to fix this. As for replacing it instead,
this is a high-end model. No way a cheapie replacement is as good.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Lazarus" > wrote in message
...
> If you change the machine to play the current discs your 300 old ones will
> no longer play.
>
> CDS are crap nowadays and are not as thick as they used to be.
>
> If you want to play the current cds and are willing to take the chance
that
> it wont play your old cds you can adjust the focus of the laser yourself.
>
> Open the machine and follow the ribbon cable from the laser pick up
assembly
> to the PCB where it plugs in.
>
> At this location on the PCB you will see one or two small screws which are
> variable resistors.....turn them until your current discs play
>
> But be warned you may now have problems with your older discs!
>
> Sony and others will not admit it but thats why they refused to fix
> it....what you ask is basically very very difficult to do on an older
> machine
>
> Anything older than 12 months these days is "old"
>
>
> "Peter" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line
CDP-X777ES
> CD
> > player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the
> fact
> > that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts
> for
> > the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
> > California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses
to
> > recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It
> plays
> > about 300 other CDs without any problems.
> >
> > Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
> > "reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not
care
> > where it might be within the USA.
> >
> > Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

[Scott Dorsey]

In article t>,
Peter > wrote:
>Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES CD
>player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the fact
>that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts for
>the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
>California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
>recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It plays
>about 300 other CDs without any problems.

Sony is that way.

>Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
>"reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
>where it might be within the USA.

Take it to your local TV repair shop and ask for a cleaning and lubrication
job. If it hasn't been done for a couple of years, you'll find that fixes
a lot of your problems.

If the problem is actually that it does not play copy-protected CDs, your
only recourse is to take them back to the store and demand a refund. Those
will not play on a large number of older machines and quite a few newer ones
too.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Geoff Wood -nospam> wrote:
>
>My guess is that you were talking to somebody non-technical, who was put on
>the spot and decided to take the easy way 'out'.

Is there someone technical at Sony service? If so, I've never met them.
Certainly the guys doing the actual work don't seem to know anything beyond
swapping boards until the problem goes away.
--scot
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

Lazarus > wrote:
>
>At this location on the PCB you will see one or two small screws which are
>variable resistors.....turn them until your current discs play
>
>But be warned you may now have problems with your older discs!

No. This is a very bad idea.
There is an actual procedure in the service manual for doing an alignment.
It's not all that hard, and all you need is a reference disc and a scope.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[William Sommerwerck]

> If you change the machine to play the current discs your 300 old ones will
> no longer play.

> CDs are crap nowadays and are not as thick as they used to be.

Where did you come up with this garbage?

CDs have a standardized thickness. Furthermore, there is a tracking servo that
keeps the laser focused, regardless of slight variations in thickness.

[Marc Wielage]

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:47:47 -0700, Peter wrote
(in message t>):

> Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES CD
> player because they claim they have no parts anymore...
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

A friend of mine told me this week he heard that Sony is going to let
something like a million bucks' worth of parts in their inventory go out of
stock, mainly for tax reasons and other related problems.

As far as your player goes, it is true that getting anything fixed over 7
years old is a problem -- since legally, the manufacturer only has to carry
parts for 7 years after a model has been discontinued.

The 777 had a helluva good transport for its time, and the higher-end ES
players are built like tanks. I'd hunt around until you can find a good
independent service shop who's willing to at least check the laser alignment.
It may only need a cleaning, a lube job, and a small bit of alignment to be
good as new.

--MFW

[William Sommerwerck]

> A friend of mine told me this week he heard that Sony is going
> to let something like a million bucks' worth of parts in their
> inventory go out of stock, mainly for tax reasons and other
> related problems.

If so, this is a break with Sony's policy. I had been told by the head of their
parts division that they never threw out parts.

[GMAN]

In article >, "Lazarus" > wrote:
>If you change the machine to play the current discs your 300 old ones will
>no longer play.


What hokey are you smoking?

>CDS are crap nowadays and are not as thick as they used to be.
>
>If you want to play the current cds and are willing to take the chance that
>it wont play your old cds you can adjust the focus of the laser yourself.
>
>Open the machine and follow the ribbon cable from the laser pick up assembly
>to the PCB where it plugs in.
>
>At this location on the PCB you will see one or two small screws which are
>variable resistors.....turn them until your current discs play
>
>But be warned you may now have problems with your older discs!
>
>Sony and others will not admit it but thats why they refused to fix
>it....what you ask is basically very very difficult to do on an older
>machine
>
>Anything older than 12 months these days is "old"
>
>
>"Peter" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>> Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES
>CD
>> player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the
>fact
>> that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts
>for
>> the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
>> California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
>> recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It
>plays
>> about 300 other CDs without any problems.
>>
>> Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
>> "reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
>> where it might be within the USA.
>>
>> Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[Mark D. Zacharias]

Seven years is not required now, if it ever really was. They are only
required to support the product for the duration of the warranty period, and
this can include just replacing the product with a refurb or "equivalent"
model.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Marc Wielage" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 21:47:47 -0700, Peter wrote
> (in message t>):
>
> > Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line
CDP-X777ES CD
> > player because they claim they have no parts anymore...
> >--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<
>
> A friend of mine told me this week he heard that Sony is going to let
> something like a million bucks' worth of parts in their inventory go out
of
> stock, mainly for tax reasons and other related problems.
>
> As far as your player goes, it is true that getting anything fixed over 7
> years old is a problem -- since legally, the manufacturer only has to
carry
> parts for 7 years after a model has been discontinued.
>
> The 777 had a helluva good transport for its time, and the higher-end ES
> players are built like tanks. I'd hunt around until you can find a good
> independent service shop who's willing to at least check the laser
alignment.
> It may only need a cleaning, a lube job, and a small bit of alignment to
be
> good as new.
>
> --MFW
>

[William Sommerwerck]

> Seven years is not required now, if it ever really was.
> They are only required to support the product for the
> duration of the warranty period, and this can include
> just replacing the product with a refurb or "equivalent"
> model.

NOT SO.

A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock electrical parts
for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic for 5 (or was it 3). What the law
currently is, I don't know.

[Mark A]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> > Seven years is not required now, if it ever really was.
> > They are only required to support the product for the
> > duration of the warranty period, and this can include
> > just replacing the product with a refurb or "equivalent"
> > model.
>
> NOT SO.
>
> A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock electrical
parts
> for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic for 5 (or was it 3). What the
law
> currently is, I don't know.
>
What jurisdiction is that? Is that federal, state (which state)? What if a
company goes out of business? Do you have a reference?

[William Sommerwerck]

>> A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock
>> electrical parts for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic
>> for 5 (or was it 3?). What the law currently is, I don't know.

> What jurisdiction is that? Is that federal, state (which state)?

Federal.


> What if a company goes out of business?

There would be no entity the law could be enforced against.


> Do you have a reference?

No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.

[Mark A]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> >> A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock
> >> electrical parts for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic
> >> for 5 (or was it 3?). What the law currently is, I don't know.
>
> > What jurisdiction is that? Is that federal, state (which state)?
>
> Federal.
>
>
> > What if a company goes out of business?
>
> There would be no entity the law could be enforced against.
>
>
> > Do you have a reference?
>
> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.

Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never heard of
such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What kind of products
does this cover?

[William Sommerwerck]

>>> Do you have a reference?

>> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.

> Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never
> heard of such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What
> kinds of products does this cover?

AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are not
allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.

Some years ago Sony told me they would not repair items more than ten years
after their official discontinuance, even if they had the parts. I wouldn't be
surprised if that interval were now down to seven, or even five years.

Sony is like most Japanese companies doing business in the US. They aren't much
interested in long-term customer satisfaction, especially when it comes to
supplying reasonably priced service parts.

If you like, I'll ask the "parts honcha" at Sony exactly what current policy is.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 05:49:14 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> wrote:

>> Seven years is not required now, if it ever really was.
>> They are only required to support the product for the
>> duration of the warranty period, and this can include
>> just replacing the product with a refurb or "equivalent"
>> model.
>
>NOT SO.
>
>A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock electrical parts
>for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic for 5 (or was it 3). What the law
>currently is, I don't know.

Where does this law apply? I doubt it's a matter for international
law :-)

[William Sommerwerck]

>> A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to
>> stock electrical parts for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and
>> cosmetic for 5 (or was it 3). What the law currently is,
>> I don't know.

> Where does this law apply? I doubt it's a matter for international law :-)

WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. Where ELSE would I be talking about? Good grief.

[Mark A]

"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
> >>> Do you have a reference?
>
> >> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.
>
> > Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never
> > heard of such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What
> > kinds of products does this cover?
>
> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are
not
> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.
>
> Some years ago Sony told me they would not repair items more than ten
years
> after their official discontinuance, even if they had the parts. I
wouldn't be
> surprised if that interval were now down to seven, or even five years.
>
> Sony is like most Japanese companies doing business in the US. They aren't
much
> interested in long-term customer satisfaction, especially when it comes to
> supplying reasonably priced service parts.
>
> If you like, I'll ask the "parts honcha" at Sony exactly what current
policy is.
>
I searched the FTC site. which regulates warranties in the USA. I did not
find anything about stocking parts. I would bet you big money that what you
think is a law, is really just Sony internal policy.

Actually, manufacturers are not required by law to stock any parts so long
as they honor the warranty. They have the right to just send you a new or
factory refurbed unit instead of replacing a bad part. Manufacturers are not
required to perform any repairs or parts past the warranty period.

I am not sure why you think Sony is not interested in long term customer
satisfaction. Generally Japanese firms are much more interested in customer
satisfaction than US firms, because for one reason, there is much less
emphasis on quarterly earnings in Japan.

I recently got a quote from Sony for repairing a computer monitor that is 7
years old. Like all their non-warranty repairs, they charge a flat fee
regardless of the problem. I decided not to do it because of the 2-way
shipping charges for the 75 lb monitor were fairly high and I didn't have
the original shipping box.

[Laurence Payne]

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:04:19 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> wrote:

>> Where does this law apply? I doubt it's a matter for international law :-)
>
>WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. Where ELSE would I be talking about? Good grief.

Oh dear :-)

This Internet thing, it's global you know.

[William Sommerwerck]

> I searched the FTC site. which regulates warranties in the USA.
> I did not find anything about stocking parts. I would bet you big
> money that what you think is a law, is really just Sony internal policy.

This has nothing to do with warranties. I've seen it, but it was years ago, and
I don't remember where.


> Actually, manufacturers are not required by law to stock any parts
> so long as they honor the warranty. They have the right to just send
> you a new or factory refurbed unit instead of replacing a bad part.
> Manufacturers are not required to perform any repairs or parts past
> the warranty period.

To the best of my knowledge, none of this is so.


> I am not sure why you think Sony is not interested in long term customer
> satisfaction.

When the replacement cable for a $100 pair of headphones costs $60, you KNOW
they are not interested in long-term customer satisfaction.


> Generally Japanese firms are much more interested in customer
> satisfaction than US firms, because for one reason, there is much
> less emphasis on quarterly earnings in Japan.

This seems to be true in Japan, but not in the US. I can't think of any Japanese
electronics firm that provides really good customer service to its US customers.


I'm going to ask Bonnie. I'll let everyone know sometime next week.

[Mark D. Zacharias]

California was one state which dictated a 7-year parts availability.
Unfortunately NAFTA, GATT, etc have superceded these state laws.

Sony's current repair policy, as distinguished from their long-term parts
availability policy, is that they will service products at a flat rate for 7
years, assuming no physical damage, severe abuse, botched service attempts,
etc.

Beyond the 7 years, they will service it on a "time and materials" basis,
assuming parts are available.

The fly in this ointment is that they often no longer have anyone on staff
familiar with the old product. Very often, and I say this because I have
seen it personally, they will simply identify a part no longer available for
that model, then say, that's what it needs, sorry, can't fix it, would you
like the piece back for the minimum charge? Even though the part specified
had NOTHING to do with the stated complaint. For example a mechanical part
when the symptom was static in the sound.

So you've just gone to the trouble of packing, shipping, insuring, waiting,
etc only to find they never even gave a good-faith effort toward fixing the
piece.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Laurence Payne" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:04:19 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> > wrote:
>
> >> Where does this law apply? I doubt it's a matter for international law
:-)
> >
> >WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. Where ELSE would I be talking about? Good
grief.
>
> Oh dear :-)
>
> This Internet thing, it's global you know.

[Marc Wielage]

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:18:39 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in message >):

> If so, this is a break with Sony's policy. I had been told by the head of
> their parts division that they never threw out parts.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Oh, I never said they were going to THROW the parts AWAY. Just that they're
not going to go out of their way to maintain a large stock of parts anymore.

The theory is that they're going to start replacing more boards (if not
entire products) rather than do a lot of board-level repair anymore. Again,
this is all hearsay, and I haven't gotten confirmation about it. But it's in
keeping with Sony closing more and more of their factory-owned service
centers. For example, there's no more Sony consumer factory service in LA --
a city of 10 million people. Pretty startling.

--MFW

[Mark A]

"Marc Wielage" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:18:39 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
> (in message >):
>
> > If so, this is a break with Sony's policy. I had been told by the head
of
> > their parts division that they never threw out parts.
> >--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<
>
> Oh, I never said they were going to THROW the parts AWAY. Just that
they're
> not going to go out of their way to maintain a large stock of parts
anymore.
>
> The theory is that they're going to start replacing more boards (if not
> entire products) rather than do a lot of board-level repair anymore.
Again,
> this is all hearsay, and I haven't gotten confirmation about it. But it's
in
> keeping with Sony closing more and more of their factory-owned service
> centers. For example, there's no more Sony consumer factory service in
LA --
> a city of 10 million people. Pretty startling.
>
> --MFW
>
For many years Sony and most other manufacturers have had independent
authorized service centers for warranty and non-warranty repairs run by
independent electronics service companies. Check your yellow pages for
details.

In the past, these independent survive companies existed in almost every
medium size or larger city, but there is a trend (on the part of consumers)
toward not repairing mid-level consumer equipment because of large scale
integrated assemblies, the high labor cost involved, the rapid rate of
technological obsolescence, and the declining cost of new replacement
products.

I don't think Sony is any worse than other manufacturers, and in most
respects they are better than most.

[William Sommerwerck]

> The theory is that they're going to start replacing more boards (if
> not entire products) rather than do a lot of board-level repair anymore.
> Again, this is all hearsay, and I haven't gotten confirmation about it.
> But it's in keeping with Sony closing more and more of their factory-
> owned service centers. For example, there's no more Sony consumer
> factory service in LA -- a city of 10 million people. Pretty startling.

I've sent e-mail to a friend at Sony. Hopefully, she'll let us know in a few
days.

Seattle -- not a small city, either -- lost its Sony factory-service shop about
a year ago. Their charges were not especially attractive (whose are?), and in
one case I had to lecture the manager about how a dictation machine should be
repaired. (It turned out their diagnosis was wrong and mine was right. Oddly,
they performed the repair at no charge.)

[GMAN]

In article >, "Mark A" > wrote:
>"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
>> >> A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock
>> >> electrical parts for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic
>> >> for 5 (or was it 3?). What the law currently is, I don't know.
>>
>> > What jurisdiction is that? Is that federal, state (which state)?
>>
>> Federal.
>>
>>
>> > What if a company goes out of business?
>>
>> There would be no entity the law could be enforced against.
>>
>>
>> > Do you have a reference?
>>
>> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.
>
>Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never heard of
>such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What kind of products
>does this cover?
>
>
I am pretty sure this 7 year law is out there since i remember reading up on
it years ago too. Its a federal law and i beleive the original purpose whas to
make sure OTC parts were available for a set amount of time for military
resupply.\

[GMAN]

In article >, "Mark A" > wrote:
>"William Sommerwerck" > wrote in message
...
>> >>> Do you have a reference?
>>
>> >> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.
>>
>> > Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never
>> > heard of such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What
>> > kinds of products does this cover?
>>
>> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are
>not
>> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.
>>
>> Some years ago Sony told me they would not repair items more than ten
>years
>> after their official discontinuance, even if they had the parts. I
>wouldn't be
>> surprised if that interval were now down to seven, or even five years.
>>
>> Sony is like most Japanese companies doing business in the US. They aren't
>much
>> interested in long-term customer satisfaction, especially when it comes to
>> supplying reasonably priced service parts.
>>
>> If you like, I'll ask the "parts honcha" at Sony exactly what current
>policy is.
>>
>I searched the FTC site. which regulates warranties in the USA. I did not
>find anything about stocking parts. I would bet you big money that what you
>think is a law, is really just Sony internal policy.

I am pretty sure i have seen this 7 year law out there too.



>
>Actually, manufacturers are not required by law to stock any parts so long
>as they honor the warranty. They have the right to just send you a new or
>factory refurbed unit instead of replacing a bad part. Manufacturers are not
>required to perform any repairs or parts past the warranty period.
>
>I am not sure why you think Sony is not interested in long term customer
>satisfaction. Generally Japanese firms are much more interested in customer
>satisfaction than US firms, because for one reason, there is much less
>emphasis on quarterly earnings in Japan.
>
>I recently got a quote from Sony for repairing a computer monitor that is 7
>years old. Like all their non-warranty repairs, they charge a flat fee
>regardless of the problem. I decided not to do it because of the 2-way
>shipping charges for the 75 lb monitor were fairly high and I didn't have
>the original shipping box.
>
>

[Marc Wielage]

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 3:21:18 -0700, Mark A wrote
(in message >):

> For many years Sony and most other manufacturers have had independent
> authorized service centers for warranty and non-warranty repairs run by
> independent electronics service companies.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

The only problem there is, many (but not necessarily most) of them suck.
I've dealt with a dozen independent service shops in LA for the better part
of 25 years, and have yet to find one that can do a consistently good job.
(VTR Service in North Hollywood is good for video gear, but they ain't
cheap.)

Also, my experience is that the factory-owned service centers generally do a
better job the first time, and they also have a much better access to parts.

The point of the message was that consumer electronic manufacturers
everywhere are cutting way back on service, which is a real shame. They're
also making it much harder than ever to get parts, as reflected by David
Satz' message about his DAT deck.

--MFW

[Neill Massello]

Mark A > wrote:

> For many years Sony and most other manufacturers have had independent
> authorized service centers for warranty and non-warranty repairs run by
> independent electronics service companies. Check your yellow pages for
> details.
>
> In the past, these independent survive companies existed in almost every
> medium size or larger city, but there is a trend (on the part of consumers)
> toward not repairing mid-level consumer equipment because of large scale
> integrated assemblies, the high labor cost involved, the rapid rate of
> technological obsolescence, and the declining cost of new replacement
> products.

And the bad experiences Sony customers have had with authorized service
centers. I took a Sony VCR to three different authorized shops when it
started creasing tapes after only two years of moderate use. None of
these authorized service centers was able to make repairs that stuck for
more than a few weeks, even after lengthy stays in the shop -- and I was
always the one who had to keep calling to find out when the VCR would be
ready.


> I don't think Sony is any worse than other manufacturers, and in most
> respects they are better than most.

But the reliability of mid-level Sony consumer products has declined
more rapidly than other brands in the past ten years, to the point that
it is now worse than average.

[wkearney99]

> > Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never
> > heard of such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What
> > kinds of products does this cover?
>
> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are not
> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.

Cite what law requires this. While it may seem like a fine idea I seriously
doubt there's legislation worded to require it.

[wkearney99]

> I am pretty sure this 7 year law is out there since i remember reading up on
> it years ago too. Its a federal law and i beleive the original purpose whas to
> make sure OTC parts were available for a set amount of time for military
> resupply.

Then that would be covered under the contract the supplier had with the GSA.
It's unlikely that legislation is involved. If so, please cite the code
section.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are not
>> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.

> Cite what law requires this. While it may seem like a fine idea I seriously
> doubt there's legislation worded to require it.

I posted an answer at least a week ago.

It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers to at
least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a period of
time after a product is discontinued.

[Mark A]

> > Cite what law requires this. While it may seem like a fine idea I
seriously
> > doubt there's legislation worded to require it.
>
> I posted an answer at least a week ago.
>
> It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers
to at
> least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a
period of
> time after a product is discontinued.
>

That is so vague that it is unenforceable, unless you are talking about
products that are covered under warranty or extended service contracts.

[William Sommerwerck]

>> It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers
>> to at least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a
>> period of time after a product is discontinued.

> That is so vague that it is unenforceable, unless you are talking about
> products that are covered under warranty or extended service contracts.

This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.

According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.

Virtually all products are implicitly covered by the common-law implied warranty
of merchantability. Enforcing it is difficult, and it appears that many state
laws have chipped away at it over the years.

[Laurence Payne]

On Wed, 5 May 2004 05:47:58 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> wrote:

>
>It appears there is no Federal law,

And certainly no international one.

[GMAN]

In article >, "William Sommerwerck" > wrote:
>>> It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers
>>> to at least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a
>>> period of time after a product is discontinued.
>
>> That is so vague that it is unenforceable, unless you are talking about
>> products that are covered under warranty or extended service contracts.
>
>This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.
>
>According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.
>
>Virtually all products are implicitly covered by the common-law implied
> warranty
>of merchantability. Enforcing it is difficult, and it appears that many state
>laws have chipped away at it over the years.
>
I do know for sure that anything sold to Government or US Military under
contract requires a certain amount of parts availability.

[Mark A]

> >
> I do know for sure that anything sold to Government or US Military under
> contract requires a certain amount of parts availability.
>
That is not by federal law, but by specification in the contract. It then
becomes a matter of contract law between two parties.

[Marc Wielage]

On Wed, 5 May 2004 7:00:20 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in message >):

> This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.

> According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Bill, did you ask her about the rumor that Sony is about to let a lot of
parts (almost a million dollars' worth) go out of stock? That's what we
heard, and also that somebody has determined that it's easier for them to
just replace units outright, rather than spend the money for a service person
to repair them.

If nothing else, this would help explain the rash of Sony factory service
centers that have recently been closed all over North America.

--MFW

[William Sommerwerck]

>> This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.
>> According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.

> Bill, did you ask her about the rumor that Sony is about to let
> a lot of parts (almost a million dollars' worth) go out of stock?
> That's what we heard, and also that somebody has determined
> that it's easier for them to just replace units outright, rather than
> spend the money for a service person to repair them.

No, I forgot to.

Considering how grossly overpriced Sony parts tend to be, $1M worth isn't that
much.

The question of "replacement versus repair" would seem to depend on the item's
price. For cheap items -- and especially considering Sony's virtually
non-existent warranty on them -- in-warranty replacement would seem to be a good
idea.

This approach also assumes owners are almost always going to throw away a
broken-but-out-of-warranty $50 Discman, rather than have it repaired.

I don't see how it can be economically advantageous to replace expensive
products rather than fix them, especially when a lot of such repairs could be
handled (relatively) quickly with a board replacement.

By the way, GE used to handle warranty repairs by swapping for a reconditioned
unit of the same model. The customer got a prompt "repair," and the technicians
could work on a half-dozen of a given model at the same time, which ought to be
quite efficient.


> If nothing else, this would help explain the rash of Sony factory service
> centers that have recently been closed all over North America.

It might, but not all of them closed. Of course, electronic service shops in
general are closing.