Re: When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection...HANG UP!!

[Bruce J. Richman]

Lionel wrote:


>Bruce J. Richman - vendredi 2 Avril 2004 00:31 -
> wrote:
>
>> Lionel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bruce J. Richman - jeudi 1 Avril 2004 23:16 -
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's located in Onterryo, Kanada.
>>>
>>>http://www.partner.org.il/eilat/news-0109-now2.html
>>>Friends of you ?
>>>
>>
>> "Friends of you" is grammatically incorrect.
>>
>> They don't need my friendship, and certainly don't have yours :).
>
>
>
>
>>>http://www.partner.org.il/eilat/news-0109-solid.html
>>>Cultural or genetic dyslexia ?
>>>

This could be interpreted as thinly veiled antisemetic humor. So Lionel, much
as you don't like my biases, I don't appreciate yours. Of course, I'm also
considering your call for a condemnation of Irael's assassination without a
similar call for condemnation of the Palestinian policy of suicide bombings.


>>
>> Whichever type of propaganda fits your pro-Palestinian agenda I'm sure
>> you'll try and propagate..
>
>Do you pretend that I am the RAO's suicide-bomber ?
>Have you lost your humour today ?
>It was just an opportunist joke. You don't like ?
>

I have an excellent sense of humor. That's why I made light of your comment
about my typographical error. Besides, Lionel, when you choose to make fun of
a particular religious group (or pro-Israel group) with comments such as
cultural or genetic dyslexia, it sort of suggests your biases and prejudices.
So before, you come to conclusions about my views, perhaps you should examine
your own.

>> Actually, it's far more laughable to call Yassin a
>> "politician". But then again, you also think Hitler was just a politican,
>> n'est ce pas?
>
>Yes he was a politician, unfortunately. But what is an isolated politician
>without the support of rich people ? Can you also imagine a fascist regim
>without any renoucement from most of democrats ?
>

Are you suggesting that Hitler's rise to power was "sponsered" by the wealthy,
and/or silence from those who were democrats - whatever that might have meant
in pre-world War II Germany. You're missing my point here. *Both* Yassin and
Hitler were directly responsible for the murders of innocent people. To
describe them *only* as politicians is disingenuous and tremendously minimizing
the horror of their actions.


>> Now playing:
>>
>> Probably some Wagner, to make you feel at home. (One of your
>> "politician's"
>> favorite composers). Ride of the Valkyries seems appropriate.
>
>Wagner berk ! Just a pompous romantic garbage...

Although he was a notrious anti-Semite, and Hitler's favorite composer (a
matter of history), there is no question that he was a giften composer.


>Once again I'm listing a Negro, one of my prefered one. A famous fighter and
>a turbulent democrat, a real kind man : Archie Shepp : "Ballad for Trane".

What do you mean by a turbulent Democrat?

I'm not a big jazz buff, but John Coltrane was one of the best, no doubt. My
jazz collection is small - heavy on Dave Brubeck, big bands (Basie, Ellington,
Harry James - 2 Black men and a Jewish guy FWIW).



>Next one... a negro again : Joe Chambers "Mirrors".
>

I haven't a prejudiced bone in my body, Lionel. Can you say the same? As
regards Hamas, my comments have to do with your defense of people like Yassin,
who directly ordered suicide bombings of innocent civilians - *not* combattants
or military operatives in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.




>You are revealing here that you are a man full of bias and preconception,
>Bruce, I'm a little bit disappointed. :-(
>
>
>
>

Actually, you've revealed a lot about yourself in your commentes about Yassin,
Israel, and your poking fun at a pro-Israel group.

So let's really test *your* sense of humor.
Here's a link, which, by coinicidence, exhibits a cartoon published in today's
Miami Herald - and no doubt elsewhere from noted political cartoonist Tony
Auth.
I think it neatly summarizes the opinions of many when it comes to Hamas. Too
bad you can't see this. :(

http://www.ucomics.com/tonyauth/2004/03/28/




>


Bruce J. Richman

[Bruce J. Richman]

Lionel Chapuis wrote:


>Bruce J. Richman - vendredi 2 Avril 2004 05:25 -
> wrote:
>
>> Lionel wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Bruce J. Richman - vendredi 2 Avril 2004 00:31 -
> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lionel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bruce J. Richman - jeudi 1 Avril 2004 23:16 -
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It's located in Onterryo, Kanada.
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.partner.org.il/eilat/news-0109-now2.html
>>>>>Friends of you ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Friends of you" is grammatically incorrect.
>>>>
>>>> They don't need my friendship, and certainly don't have yours :).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>http://www.partner.org.il/eilat/news-0109-solid.html
>>>>>Cultural or genetic dyslexia ?
>>>>>
>>
>> This could be interpreted as thinly veiled antisemetic humor. So Lionel,
>> much
>> as you don't like my biases, I don't appreciate yours. Of course, I'm
>> also considering your call for a condemnation of Irael's assassination
>> without a similar call for condemnation of the Palestinian policy of
>> suicide bombings.
>
>Ok I hope after that it will be clear :
>Yassin was a ****ing *******. Between you and me he desserved the bullets
>which killed him. Enough explicite ?
>This is sincerely what I think.
>

I'm glad to hear it. On this point, we totally agree. So why not the
simultaneous call for condemnation of Hamas' suicide bombing campaign directed
against civilians along with your call for condemnation of Israel's actions.?


>In a *civilized* world I believe that nothing can justify an assassination
>without judgement, this is why I have criticized the American veto.

The veto was based on a predictable failure of the U.N., long a bastion of
anti-Semitism and Arab bloc favoritism, to couple a condemnation of Hamas'
suicide bombings along with the Yassin's targeted killings. The US would have
been willing to vote for a resolution condemning *both* actions.


>I consider that this veto officialize the state of war between Israel and
>Palestine. If it is a war how to criticize suicide-bombers and not nuclear
>bombs, agent orange, napalm, phosphor...
>>

The state of war between Israel and the Palestinians has been more or less
ongoing ever since the creation of Israel in 1948. Perhaps you are not aware
of the fact that the PLO charter calls for the destruction of the state of
Israel, and of course, Hamas calls for the same thing.
The reasons for the US veto, widely reported in various news media, are given
above, and have *nothing* to do with the state of war between the Israelis and
Palestinians.

It is also a reported fact that Sharon is planning to leave Gaza and give up
some of the settlements on the West Bank - therefore fulfilling at least *some*
of the EU, US, etc.-sponsored roadmap provisions. In return the Palestinians
have offered to do NOTHING. The roadmap plan calls for the Palestinians to
disarm/dismantled terrorist groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. The PLO,
Arafat and his puppet prime minister, Quereia, have REFUSED to do so.
Therefore, it appears pretty clear cut who wants peace and who does not.



>>>>
>>>> Whichever type of propaganda fits your pro-Palestinian agenda I'm sure
>>>> you'll try and propagate..
>>>
>>>Do you pretend that I am the RAO's suicide-bomber ?
>>>Have you lost your humour today ?
>>>It was just an opportunist joke. You don't like ?
>>>
>>
>> I have an excellent sense of humor. That's why I made light of your
>> comment
>> about my typographical error. Besides, Lionel, when you choose to make
>> fun of a particular religious group (or pro-Israel group) with comments
>> such as cultural or genetic dyslexia, it sort of suggests your biases and
>> prejudices. So before, you come to conclusions about my views, perhaps you
>> should examine your own.
>
>I was *naively* thinking that self derision was the strengh of Jewish
>humour.
>

I think self-derision is at the basis of a lot of ethnic humor, from different
groups. However, comments about a group's intellectual characteristics based
on a typo, IMHO, go beyond humor.

>>
>>>> Actually, it's far more laughable to call Yassin a
>>>> "politician". But then again, you also think Hitler was just a
>>>> politican, n'est ce pas?
>>>
>>>Yes he was a politician, unfortunately. But what is an isolated politician
>>>without the support of rich people ? Can you also imagine a fascist regim
>>>without any renoucement from most of democrats ?
>>>
>>
>> Are you suggesting that Hitler's rise to power was "sponsered" by the
>> wealthy, and/or silence from those who were democrats - whatever that
>> might have meant
>> in pre-world War II Germany. You're missing my point here. *Both* Yassin
>> and
>> Hitler were directly responsible for the murders of innocent people. To
>> describe them *only* as politicians is disingenuous and tremendously
>> minimizing the horror of their actions.
>
>This is a point were I'll *never* join you. I am sure that your "politicaly
>correct point of view" is a way to disculpate and to keep unpunished all
>the *******s which are the real responsible of their success.
>

I don't know what you are talking about, but you're ascribing to me motives or
"plans" that I don't possess. If you don't think these 2 individuals were
hatemongers, murderers, and directly responsible for the killing of many
people, then you're ignoring history.


>
>>
>>>> Now playing:
>>>>
>>>> Probably some Wagner, to make you feel at home. (One of your
>>>> "politician's"
>>>> favorite composers). Ride of the Valkyries seems appropriate.
>>>
>>>Wagner berk ! Just a pompous romantic garbage...
>>
>> Although he was a notrious anti-Semite, and Hitler's favorite composer (a
>> matter of history), there is no question that he was a giften composer.
>>
>>
>>>Once again I'm listing a Negro, one of my prefered one. A famous fighter
>>>and a turbulent democrat, a real kind man : Archie Shepp : "Ballad for
>>>Trane".
>>
>> What do you mean by a turbulent Democrat?
>>
>> I'm not a big jazz buff, but John Coltrane was one of the best, no doubt.
>> My jazz collection is small - heavy on Dave Brubeck, big bands (Basie,
>> Ellington, Harry James - 2 Black men and a Jewish guy FWIW).
>
>Gooooooooood !
>I would like to be at your place !
>All these marvellous artists to discover one more time...
>
>

And on vinyl :)



>>
>>
>>>Next one... a negro again : Joe Chambers "Mirrors".
>>>
>>
>> I haven't a prejudiced bone in my body, Lionel. Can you say the same? As
>> regards Hamas, my comments have to do with your defense of people like
>> Yassin, who directly ordered suicide bombings of innocent civilians -
>> *not* combattants or military operatives in the Israeli-Palestinian
>> conflict.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>You are revealing here that you are a man full of bias and preconception,
>>>Bruce, I'm a little bit disappointed. :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Actually, you've revealed a lot about yourself in your commentes about
>> Yassin, Israel, and your poking fun at a pro-Israel group.
>>
>> So let's really test *your* sense of humor.
>> Here's a link, which, by coinicidence, exhibits a cartoon published in
>> today's Miami Herald - and no doubt elsewhere from noted political
>> cartoonist Tony Auth.
>> I think it neatly summarizes the opinions of many when it comes to Hamas.
>> Too
>> bad you can't see this. :(
>>
>> http://www.ucomics.com/tonyauth/2004/03/28/
>
>BTW Bruce I could understand that this tragic conflict touch you more than
>me but I'm also afraid when someone contradictions look like schizophrenia.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Except, of course, that you're misusing the term schizophrenia, unless you, in
your pro-Palestinian (apparently) manner wish to suggest that those that think
Israel targets military combatants while Hamas targets civilians are crazy.
And if you really think that, then, with all due respect, Lionel, you are more
out of touch with reality than I am. There is no equivalence between targeting
civilians, and defending oneself against stonethrowers, bombers, snipers and
other identified military combattants.



>


Bruce J. Richman

[Bruce J. Richman]

Lionel wrote:


>Bruce J. Richman - vendredi 2 Avril 2004 23:07 -
>
>>>This is a point were I'll *never* join you. I am sure that your
>>>"politicaly correct point of view" is a way to disculpate and to keep
>>>unpunished all the *******s which are the real responsible of their
>>>success.
>>>
>>
>> I don't know what you are talking about, but you're ascribing to me
>> motives or
>> "plans" that I don't possess. If you don't think these 2 individuals were
>> hatemongers, murderers, and directly responsible for the killing of many
>> people, then you're ignoring history.
>
>Don't worry I'm not ignoring history, at the contrary I consider that this
>guys are not issue from a "spontaneous generation", so I *try* to take care
>of what I have got in heritage...
>
>>>> I'm not a big jazz buff, but John Coltrane was one of the best, no
>>>> doubt. My jazz collection is small - heavy on Dave Brubeck, big bands
>>>> (Basie, Ellington, Harry James - 2 Black men and a Jewish guy FWIW).
>>>
>>>Gooooooooood !
>>>I would like to be at your place !
>>>All these marvellous artists to discover one more time...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> And on vinyl :)
>
>Sincerely ? I don't see any interest...
>Perhaps because I'm too "penny-pincher" or simply too poor but... ;-)

Oh, really. You've been reading Arnie's anti-vinyl propaganda too long. :)
Take a look at the following from eBay:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=coltrane&socmd=ListingItemL
ist&from=R10&sacategory=306&BasicSearch=

And that's just for John Coltrane. The total eBay listing of jazz records
(vinyl) on any given day exceeds 10,000. Total vinyl listings on any given day
exceed 150,000. Also, many of the listings are for more than one record.
Prices vary considerably, but considering the average retail cost of a CD in
the US is probably about $ 14 or $ 15.00, before taxes, prices for LPs are
relatively cheap in many cases (and there are no taxes to be paid in most
cases, although one has to pay for shipping). I don't know what the situation
is like in France, but I'd venture to guess there are also numerous used LP
stores in major cities, just aa there are in the USA. For those more affluent,
of course, there are a number of companies pressing brand new vinyl, 180 gram
reissues. Jazz constitutes one of the most popular reissue categories.
Admittedly, they cost more - most in the $ 15.00 to 30.00 range. But again,
sometimes these can be found on eBay. And sometimes in Near Mint or even
Sealed condition.



>
>>>BTW Bruce I could understand that this tragic conflict touch you more than
>>>me but I'm also afraid when someone contradictions look like
>>>schizophrenia.
>
>
>> Except, of course, that you're misusing the term schizophrenia, unless
>> you, in your pro-Palestinian (apparently) manner wish to suggest that
>> those that think Israel targets military combatants while Hamas targets
>> civilians are crazy. And if you really think that, then, with all due
>> respect, Lionel, you are more
>> out of touch with reality than I am. There is no equivalence between
>> targeting civilians, and defending oneself against stonethrowers, bombers,
>> snipers and other identified military combattants.
>
>OK *forget* schizophrenia... and replace it by *paradox*.
>I have already told you that Bruce, passion is the enemy of reason.
>
>

I agree. However, but when one of the parties to a conflict is ready to engage
in reasonable negotiations (Israel), and the other has a passionate hatred
dedicated to destruction of their enemies (Palestinians), then they are being
unreasonable.

Sorry, Lionel, but there is no paradox here. Just one country that has been
continuously attacked for over 50 years by neighboring countries unwilling to
accept its existence.







Bruce J. Richman

[Bruce J. Richman]

Lionel wrote:


>Bruce J. Richman - > - samedi 3
>Avril 2004 02:44 wrote:
>
>
>>>>>> I'm not a big jazz buff, but John Coltrane was one of the best, no
>>>>>> doubt. My jazz collection is small - heavy on Dave Brubeck, big bands
>>>>>> (Basie, Ellington, Harry James - 2 Black men and a Jewish guy FWIW).
>>>>>
>>>>>Gooooooooood !
>>>>>I would like to be at your place !
>>>>>All these marvellous artists to discover one more time...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And on vinyl :)
>>>
>>>Sincerely ? I don't see any interest...
>>>Perhaps because I'm too "penny-pincher" or simply too poor but... ;-)
>>
>> Oh, really. You've been reading Arnie's anti-vinyl propaganda too long.
>> :)
>
>You've been reading Middius's prose too long... I never read anything from
>Mr Krueger concerning vinyl. ;-)
>

I read the prose of most of the RAO posters from time to time. I haven't got
hardly anybody in my killfile. And as far as George Middius is concerned, his
views re. vinyl and/or tubes are rarely, if ever, expressed on RAO, so
anti-vinyl rantings and ravings are not an issue.


>> Take a look at the following from eBay:
>> http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?query=coltrane&socmd=ListingItemL
>> ist&from=R10&sacategory=306&BasicSearch=
>>
>> And that's just for John Coltrane. The total eBay listing of jazz records
>> (vinyl) on any given day exceeds 10,000. Total vinyl listings on any
>> given day
>> exceed 150,000. Also, many of the listings are for more than one record.
>> Prices vary considerably, but considering the average retail cost of a CD
>> in the US is probably about $ 14 or $ 15.00, before taxes, prices for LPs
>> are relatively cheap in many cases (and there are no taxes to be paid in
>> most
>> cases, although one has to pay for shipping). I don't know what the
>> situation is like in France, but I'd venture to guess there are also
>> numerous used LP
>> stores in major cities, just aa there are in the USA. For those more
>> affluent, of course, there are a number of companies pressing brand new
>> vinyl, 180 gram
>> reissues. Jazz constitutes one of the most popular reissue categories.
>> Admittedly, they cost more - most in the $ 15.00 to 30.00 range. But
>> again,
>> sometimes these can be found on eBay. And sometimes in Near Mint or even
>> Sealed condition.
>
>The problem doesn't come from the cost of the media itself but the cost of
>the turntable, stylus...

It depends on what an individual considers a lot of money, of course, but
brands such as Rega, Project, etc. are no doubt fairly inexpensive in the
European market. Many people spend as much, if not more, on CD players and
other digital equipment as the cost of these products.


>...All this money out for a system which oblige you to leave your armchair
>all 20 minutes !
>Are you really so masochist ?
>

Obviously, many people consider it a small price to play for the ability to
enjoy what to their ears is a more realistic, musical presentation in many
cases. Are you really so lazy that getting out of a chair once every 20
minutes is such a chore? (and for the record, many LPs last longer than that).



>
>>>>>BTW Bruce I could understand that this tragic conflict touch you more
>>>>>than me but I'm also afraid when someone contradictions look like
>>>>>schizophrenia.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Except, of course, that you're misusing the term schizophrenia, unless
>>>> you, in your pro-Palestinian (apparently) manner wish to suggest that
>>>> those that think Israel targets military combatants while Hamas targets
>>>> civilians are crazy. And if you really think that, then, with all due
>>>> respect, Lionel, you are more
>>>> out of touch with reality than I am. There is no equivalence between
>>>> targeting civilians, and defending oneself against stonethrowers,
>>>> bombers, snipers and other identified military combattants.
>>>
>>>OK *forget* schizophrenia... and replace it by *paradox*.
>>>I have already told you that Bruce, passion is the enemy of reason.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I agree. However, but when one of the parties to a conflict is ready to
>> engage in reasonable negotiations (Israel), and the other has a passionate
>> hatred dedicated to destruction of their enemies (Palestinians), then they
>> are being unreasonable.
>
>Your world is really to much *manicheist*, Bruce, and believe me in your
>case the word perfectly fit the purpose.
>

An obscure opinion you get to have, but one not supported by any details or
evidence, it would appear.



>> Sorry, Lionel, but there is no paradox here. Just one country that has
>> been continuously attacked for over 50 years by neighboring countries
>> unwilling to accept its existence.
>
>Ooops, a misunderstanding here, the paradox doesn't concern the situation in
>the Israelo-Palestinian conflict but concerns your behaviour on this
>newgroup. ;-)
>
>

Another obscure observation you get to have, but one unlikely to be supported
by any details or evidence. And one unlikely to be seen that way escept by you
and perhaps the 2 people whom you *may* be defending or in agreement with.



Bruce J. Richman