View Full Version : A message to the ignorant pigs of RAO.
Ha! Made ya look! Sorry, I'm just kidding. But seriously, you really
*are* a bunch of closed-minded ignorant pigs. You're really "ignorant
bigots", but "pigs" has such a nice ring to it, don't you think? BTW,
I'm not saying that to be as rude, disrespectful and insulting as you
were toward me from the very beginning. I'm not trying to attack
anyone, as you have all attacked me from the very beginning. I'm saying
that simply because its true. Its not insulting if it's actually the
truth. This message is intended to prove that... (well I don't mean to
those that I'm calling closed-minded ignorant pigs in the first place,
since you would never admit that you were).
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may
deride it, but in the end, there it is."
- Winston Churchill
ABOUT "PROJECT TWEAK THE GOONS":
First, I'd like to thank you all for taking part in my excercise. ("Ha!
I knew we were being played!", Dizzy cried). Sit down Dizzy, you
didn't't get the prize. You're still a clueless twit. In a
certain way, it might be said that you *were* being played, but don't
feel bad about that. You fools were being played by "the best there is,
and the best there ever *was*, on RAO" (tm). However, you were not
being played in the ways you thought you were being played. But then,
all your misguided speculations is one of those many reasons why I
consider most of you regulars to be the fools that you are. All these
paranoid fears you expressed weren't entirely misappropriated however,
because I *was* playing a joke on you all. It just isn't the same joke
you simple minds thought it was...
Some of my colleagues have been watching this tweak drama unfold with
"appalled fascination" ;-). The kickstart to Project "Tweak The Goons
on RAO", despite knowing that I would be "putting pearls before swine"
as it were, was to win a wager I had made with a colleague. We bet a
case of lager that I could find the biggest audio discussion newsgroup
on the net, publish as many free alternative tweaks as I wanted... and
not a single person would ever try any of them. Okay, guess who won?
(glug glug glug....). I'm sure he realized the same outcome as I did,
but we both thought it was a fun social experiment to perform on you
audio lab rats. During this experiment, I've been watching you pigs
honking away, scurrying here and there in your efforts to evade the
truth (thinking you've already found it). Sometimes I see you geting
a little closer to the truth, sometimes you get it spot on (almost
always by accident). Most of the time, you are at the exact opposite
location of where the truth resides. You make these risible attempts to
grasp it, but fail to realize, theres nothing in your grasp. It's the
"risible" that kept me enthralled, and remaining longer than I
expected to.
I'm sorry if I seemed "snotty" to some of you. I know that I can come
off sounding a bit "superior" and all sometimes. But that's because I
am. Not in "every possible way" mind you, and certainly not in
conventional principles of audio (I never claimed conventional audio as
my profession, and few here can make that claim). But superior
nevertheless. Philosophically (which is why I will never make RAO my
lifelong hangout, as many here have). Because staying on this group on
a regular basis, doling out derision after scorn after derision is
really bad for your mental and spiritual health; and all that dumb
negativity does not do good things for the sound of your stereo. Sad
fact is, anybody that has THAT much steam to let off that they need to
do this every day of their lives, has deeper problems than what RAO can
offer in terms of therapy (are you listening, George?). So if you think
I think I'm better than you trailer trash pigs, I do. But that's
only because I am.
I'm also superior in my knowledge of non-conventional audio
principles, products and ideas. A relatively new area of audio of which
absolutely no one here knows anything about, except me. So while I
never claimed to have superior technical expertise over everyone (I
don't), I do have superior knowledge to all of those present on this
group, as to what produces good sound in an audio system. That's not
arrogance speaking, it's a reflection of what is true. I've read
and taken in enough opinions from people about audio to know this for
fact. My system, which according to the viewpoint shared by most
audiophiles here, should sound like crap and have exploded 7 years ago,
is a living testament to my abilities to produce good sound. Another
thing that many people here have a hard time wrapping their heads
around, is the idea that these two are not mutually inclusive. Knowing
how to design an amplifier doesn't mean you know how to make it sound
good, or even what "good sound" sounds like (most audiophiles who
haven't reached advanced stages, don't even get that right). A
living testatment to that is the sheer amount of bad sounding
amplifiers on the market.
"SO WHAT'S THE JOKE?":
Oh yes, that. The joke is this: the tweaks actually work. All of them.
You see, I may have had my fun with you, but I didn't really troll
anyone over the tweaks. You trolled yourself, by believing it was a
troll. Through most of this, not a single chap ever bothered to ask me
what the tweaks were based on, if anything. Instead, you decided you
already knew (closed mind goes no further, presumption limits
knowledge). Instead of asking me what the tweaks were about, you took
an offensive position and told me what the tweaks were about. So
followed message after message from one RAO regular after another,
calling the tweaks or me "silly", "insane", and calling me a "troll"
for putting them out there.
Consider this: If my tweaks were valid, meaning that they could be
perceived by those with hearing sensitive enough to do so, and a
willingness to consider that they may be perceptible, then everything
that I ever said about you all being ignorant bigots (and all the other
insults that come with it), would be justified, wouldn't it? Now
consider this: NO ONE HERE ever tried my tweaks, or even proved that
they don't work. So at the very least, logic would dictate, that the
question as to whether I am right about you all being ignorant pigs,
and ALL wrong about me and about yourselves, is as of this writing,
still OPEN.
Now instead of asking me what I'm about (wrt the tweaks), you spent
your time with me telling me what I'm about (the arrogance of
stupidity, the stupidity of arrogance; see: speculation, conjecture).
Rather than question how the ideas are applied, all you could think to
do was question my motivation for sharing them (distrust, fear of the
unknown). Even though I had already mentioned my (primary) motivation
for sharing the tweaks from the beginning. Which was to try to help
people improve their sound - if they wanted help. But that was too
simple, and wasn't good enough for the insecure goonies of RAO, no! You
were all too "clever" to believe that one. Because as it appears, no
regular contributor here would think to help others reading the group.
And I don't blame anyone for not trying to post helpful articles, and
only posting stupid joke tweaks that help people get killed and
electrocuted. It tends to get in the way of the fighting and the
backstabbing, that you all congregate here for on a daily basis.
"Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself." - Chief Seattle
"IF THE TWEAKS ARE NOT A TROLL'S JOKE, THEN DOESN'T THAT MEAN
*WE'RE* THE IGNORANT FOOLS AND NOT YOU?":
Uh... YAH. I reiterate, the tweaks are not the joke. You are. I've
personally tested every tweak and dozens more similar concepts and
products. Not only do I hear differences, but I've tested them blind
and double blind on non-audiophiles, who hear the same differences.
That doesn't mean because I or some others can hear differences, that
everyone else always will, and that it will hit them like a sock in the
head. Sorry to have to tell you people this, but nobody and nothing in
audio works that way. Not even with speakers. Some hear differences in
things and some don't, all depends on their threshold of audibility.
But I can say that among those who have tried and heard audible
benefits from either "my" tweaks, or ideas and audio products based on
their advanced concepts include; medical doctors, psychiatrists,
lawyers, audio engineers, audio accessory and equipment manufacturers,
and professional audio journalists, including but not limited to: Jimmy
Hughes, Carol Clark, Bill Kenny, Alvin Gold, Greg Weaver, Robert J.
Harley, Roger S. Gordon
(http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue8/belt.htm). As well of course,
non-professionals, like most of the people here.
Most are not developed by me, and so "not my tweaks".
http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Sep05/Snark.htm
Most have already been tried by actual "open minded" audiophiles (the
avant garde of the audio community) the world over, and have been
proven effective by most who've heard them. Most are based on
theories rooted in established sciences of which none of you
ignoramuses would know anything about, since you never bothered to
research them. Hundreds and thousands have people have either tried my
tweaks, or other ideas or products based on their principles. Which
are? Some are based on principles of quantum mechanics, some are based
on Dr. Rupert Sheldrake's work on morphic resonances. Some are based on
work by Dr. Ibrahim Karim and others on Dr. Masaru Emoto. All are
alternative concepts, except for the one "bonus" Newtonian tweak
(speaker grounding). Which I threw in there just to get a different
reaction. And it certainly did...
Upwards of a hundred messages all pouncing on me for posting that
tweak, viciously attacking me for deliberately trying to blow up
people's amplifiers by advocating a grounding scheme that was sure to
do that. And all the while that I was reading this complete tripe, I
had my stereo on in the background. The one that had my speakers
grounded to it, that was supposed to have blown up. To drive the point
home, I challenged many of my detractors to come and see my system and
the speaker grounding technique in action, to prove that it is not
harmful, and does in fact greatly elevate the sound quality. On the
promise that I would pay for their travel expenses if I could not prove
what I claimed. That's when everyone shut up real fast. Not a SINGLE
person took me up on my offer.
Getting a "different reactions" was the whole point of the excercise,
really. Frankly, I find your group to be quite boring. Your rare
discussions on audio are dumb, and rarely if ever at all interesting.
Just one dumb audiophile blasting out his prejudicial opinions to
another dumb audiophile, both audiophiles never having gotten past the
very beginning stages of audiophilia, and no one here ever convinces
anyone to change their mind about anything. This group is really just
a proving ground for your overinflated egos, than an educational forum.
A perfect example of how dumb that people here really are, can be seen
in the amount of attacks I got for the length of my messages. When
stupid sheep are challenged to read something longer than two-line
quips, they get angry and hostile. And so out come the wailing, whining
criticisms about the length of my posts (as though I am somhow forcing
dumb people to read them?!), and they even include dumb comments about
how "rambling" my posts are... when that couldn't be further from the
truth.
Dumb people with short attention spans will always believe that
anything longer than 2 lines is "rambling", because their little minds
can't follow it. They're not used to reading "books", you see. They
already get all their knowledge from ESPN, without having to waste
energy flipping pages. To display their idiocy even further, the same
critics about the length of my posts arrogantly believe they were
written for my subject, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
They are always written for my own amusement, the subject if there is
one, is merley the catalyst to that. Scanning the entire history of
this newsgroup, mine are just about the only posts archived that have
anything worthwhile or meaningful to say. A full 98-99% of the posts
that I've read here are disposable pieces of tripe; pointless,
meaningless, rambling dross. And then there are the "attack" posts,
which are even worse.
Although I made a great impact during my time here (and picked up an
entire crew of SHP groupies; which included stalkers, ankle biters and
imposters in just a few short weeks!), I was also hoping to change the
level of discussion of audio for at least a short time. But of course,
it never got to the "discussion" stage, because all everybody was
interested in was trolling and attacking me. The only thing you knew
for sure is that the tweaks were free, and had the potential to improve
your sound, or do nothing. True and passionate audiophiles that you
are, you chose to go with "do nothing"! (LOL!)
Apart from the sincerity of the tweaks themselves, I was basically
having fun with you predictable and ignorant lot of sheep elsewhere. As
I've said many times, most of you regulars are nothing but insincere
trolls (or even stalkers, as many behaved toward me), fishing for a
reaction from your opponents. But even so, I had no problem trolling
you, whenever or wherever I wanted. Trolling RAO goons is not even a
challenge to me. Look how easy it is: I knew, for example, that titling
my first post "Tip for OPEN MINDED audiophiles" would be like a honey
pot, attracting the exact opposite: closed minded audiophiles. Ready to
"rip me a new one", for having the cheek to post (seemingly) senseless
tweaks that make no sense to non-thinking sheep. (Who think that
they're clever little foxes). We (the open minded audiophiles) call you
people "Flatlanders". Do you know why? I think George does, as I've
seen him use the term. Except George doesn't realize that he's one
too.
"The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when
he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself." -
Archibald MacLeish
THE HERD MENTALITY:
What we were trying to observe with you "people", was a process that
sociologists call the "herd mentality". Basically, it means that you're
a bunch of non-thinking sheep. This can be seen and even predicted in
the fact that if you non-thinking sheep see that others are trying such
"tweaks", then you are far more likely to try them. If you see that
they don't, then you will "follow the herd". Some examples of "herd
thinking" are; cables, spikes, interconnects, etc. Concepts that were
not popularly embraced in the beginning, but are now commonly purchased
and used, even on a mid-fi level. In fact, the only reason people here
might believe that amps and sources (ie. cd players) sound different,
is because there aren't enough Arny Kruegers saying that "everything
sounds the same". At the onset of the introduction of the CD, most
players reproduced a sound so shrill and harsh, it pierced you in the
head like a drill and required a bottle of sedatives before you were
through with your brief listening session. The ultimate resolution and
image size (not to mention timbral quality, PRATT, and many other
factors) didn't even begin to approach what Linnies and other owners
of good record decks were already able to achieve in the analogue
domain, with their finely tuned setups.
CD v. LP: The Beginning Of the Endless Debate
Yet many consumers believed the hype that digital sound was superior to
anything vinyl replay had to offer, and indeed, "perfect sound
forever". Consumer sheep believed this without, in most cases, ever
doing an actual comparison with the better record decks available at
the time. This would be uncharacteristic of course because the idea of
mindless sheep is that they don't think for themselves. If they had,
most who'd been convinced of CD's superiority would have been
convinced otherwise. Ivor Tiefenbrun, the developer of the Linn LP12,
demonstrated as much to an audience of typical consumers on British
television, that what they were told to believe about the total
superiority of CD was in fact, completely false. So much for "perfect
sound". With CD rot turning up in the thousands producing unplayable
CDs, evidence came in that not only were they not superior sound as
claimed, they didn't even last as long as records. You start to
learn a lot more about audio, or any other subject, when you have
enough courage or scientific curiousity to step out of the illusory
world of "theories", and step into the reality of trial and first-hand
experimentation. It is here where you learn what is and isn't true,
and what does and does not apply to your understanding of audio; at
least for yourself.
EXCUSES FROM THE WILLFULLY IGNORANT:
I've tried to ask people why they're not trying the tweaks, in order
to prove my point (I could eliminate those who had valid reasons for
not trying them, such as they're deaf, they're not skilled enough on
how to apply them, or as one person said to me, "they can not perceive
changes because their hearing ability itself changes all the time due
to personal biological conditions"). Those who had arguably "valid"
reasons for not trying them, were put in one category. The rest, which
is most of the regulars here, I put in another category, which I call
"Flatlanders". Where people have even bothered to state why they're
against trying them, I fully understand the arguments that they have
given me, and I note that they all have something in common: they're
all ignorant and stupid.
I posted tweak after tweak until I satisfied my colleagues that no one
would try them. Hell, I was told this immediately in my first response
after posting my first message! It was a very hopeful sign for me... Of
course, if I conducted the same experiment on rec.audio.tech, or even
rec.audio.high-end, it would be so predictable, as to truly not be
worth undertaking. Those places are populated with "objectivist scum".
You can't write 3 words without somebody demanding a DBT from you. But
rec.audio.opinion? Well, of all the major audio groups, this is the one
that is supposed to represent a cross-stream of audiophiles from all
walks. Yet I showed with my experiment, as I even pointed out in my
posts, that there really is no difference between an objectivist and a
subjectivist, here. You're both narrow-minded herd-mentality sheep. Two
flocks of the same breed, as it were.
BATTLE OF THE IDEOLOGICAL NERDS:
Usually, new ideas such as the ones I've presented recently are met
with resistance from the narrow and closed minded. Traditionally, the
narrow and closed minded are represented in an exemplary fashion by the
ideological group that calls themselves "objectivists" (However, they
are the least objective group I've ever encountered. Even less
objective than so-called "subjectivists" - who are among the most
biased and prejudiced of social groups).
Of course, this idea of objectivists and subjectivists is an artificial
construct of Usenet audio hobbyists. I don't know of any audiophiles
that call themselves objecivists or subjectivists. You have basically
allowed people like Arnold to define who you are, according to your
testing methodology preferences, because he always wants testing
methodology to be the centerpiece of discussions on this group. With
Arny having succeeded at that, you're now all killing yourselves to try
to find an ideological box to pigeonhole me in, so you can figure out
whether I am to be perceived as a threat or an ally. Because of the
inherent fears of you mindless sheep, I went from an anal retentive
objectivist without a sense of humour, to an insane subjectivist who's
a comedian, to an objectivist troll, and other variations in between.
Truth is, according to the definition of your labels, I'm both an
objectivist and subjectivist. When I do blind tests I'm being
objective, when I don't, I'm being subjective. But even when I'm
performing subjective listening tests, I'm always trying to be
objective. Of course, that's not crude and simple enough for the
loutish swine on this group. Things have to be understood by RAO
members in terms of extremes; either black or white. If the truth lies
in between, eventually it will be pushed to one side or another, by a
RAO regular. And that will become "the new truth".
"All great truths begin as blasphemies." - George Bernard Shaw
THE RELIGIONS OF AUDIO:
The situation we find on RAO finds parallels in the greater social
dogma of religion. Every group of audio hobbyists here is merely
adhering to their own form of religion. The so-called "objectivists"
(who are anything but objective), can be considered ardent Xtians, the
"subjectivists", Protestants (slightly more progressive version of the
conservative Xtians). Us, the open-minded avant garde of the audio
community, are Wiccans or Pagans. (Although I have been equated with
Satan on this group, and also pigeonholed with the usual "alien" and
"insane" groups).
I know that people wont agree with my assessment, particularly
"objectivists". But that's because you're ignorant pigs, remember? I'll
elaborate a little on this, just for the ignorant objectivist pigs.
Don't think that hiding behind so-called "principles of science"
excuses you from calling your belief system a "religion". It doesn't.
Nor does stealing principles from medical sciences (DBT), and awkwardly
struggling to apply them to principles of audio, particularly
scientific or effective.
Self-described "objectivists" on Usenet think themselves superior to
the average consumer, who is blissfully unaware of the use and purpose
of blind testing methodology, and does not have a technical background
in audio. The objectivists goal is to "teach" the uninformed average
audiophile the same false myths that the average mid-fi consumer
already believes: that sound quality should generally not be a factor
in deciding among audio equipment, but that specifications (ie. watts)
and features are more important. The objectivist hijacks and misapplies
principles of medical science to an inherently subjective and illusory
practice like listening to music, to make themselves appear
authoritative.
The objectivist refrain: "If it isn't observed in dbt or abx tests,
it doesn't exist!". Blissfully ignoring the fact that very FEW of these
tests ever reveal differences in ANYTHING, or that consumer audio
equipment was not designed to be evaluated under such conditions. The
self-deluding objectivist then concludes the tests are inherently
correct, and the BILLIONS of people that hear things the tests don't
reveal, are deluded fools. Anything that might suggest the tests are
not valid, such as the studies done in the 70's on the stresses created
by abx tests, and other studies that point to the fact that our brain
processes information differently when undergoing such tests, gets
dismissed out of hand by Kreuger and company. The notion that you can
not control everything in a test but the DUT, also gets ignored. The
only "science" acceptable to objectivists, is always the one that
supports their lifelong belief system. So objectivists are no more
"scientists" or Science-minded, than say, the Amish. They believe in
their quasi scientific religion, just as the Scientiologists believe in
theirs (and also claim their religion is based on principles of
science).
"Knowledge is structured in consciousness. The process of education
takes place in the field of consciousness; the prerequisite to complete
education is therefore the full development of consciousness --
enlightenment. Knowledge is not the basis of enlightenment,
enlightenment is the basis of knowledge." - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN (or "I Feel So Lost And Confused Because They
Cant Find a Box To Stuff Me in"):
Interesting that people did not know what to make of me, and their
fearful paranoid nature immediately came out when I came on the scene.
Circling around me trying to sniff my rear, you all couldn't even
figure out whether I was to be put in the "objectivist" category, or
classified as a subjectivist. This was before, you even knew whether I
was man, woman or beast. So for a period of time, I was classified by
one member as an "anal retentive objectivist" troll, others as a
radical subjectivist troll, and still others accused me of being a
troll trying to goad the two divisions to go against each other. Which
is the absolute stupidest thing anyone has ever told me, because it's
not AS THOUGH YOU NEEDED MY HELP TO FIND A REASON TO ATTACK EACH OTHER.
What total morons! I've been called a lot of dumb things in my time, by
a lot of dumb people. "Objectivist" was never one of them. But thank
you for making me laugh.
But I'm not exempting myself from this "religion" thing. The
subjectivists have their own religion, and so do the avant garde. But
instead of learning from each other, y'all would rather rip each others
throats out, and sling mud at one another. But that's a greater social
problem that has nothing to do with audio. A lot of it has to do with
fear, a primal instinct. I've mentioned this in a lot in my posts,
because I've seen how most people I've encountered here are filled with
fear. This includes all the fearful people who accuse others of not
being "courageous", because they are using their REAL names, and the
others are not. Which also makes me laugh a LOT. Believing that using
your REAL name means you're courageous, only means you're stupid, not
"courageous". You are after all, behind a computer monitor. EVERYONE is
courageous behind a computer rmonitor. Constantly concocting dumb
paranoid conspiracy theories about people makes you fearful (or is
derivative of your fear). So does rejecting tweak after tweak not
because its "silly", but really, because you're too fearful of looking
ridiculous. Even to yourself in the privacy of your own home. If the
tweaks appear conventional to you fearful lot, some of you might try
them.
If for example, I said that you can improve your sound by installing a
divider on the tweeeters, I'm sure some fish would bite. It doesn't
provoke a strong fear reaction from you herd mentalists, because it
appears to follow the conventional Newtonian laws you already know (ie.
diffraction). It doesn't play with your feelings of security by
changing what you think you know about audio, and it doesn't cover any
"mumbo jumbo theories of quantum mechanics" that you know nothing
about, and which scares the hell out of you so badly, you don't even
WANT to know about it. But I did warn you that I was an advanced
audiophile (and if you felt insulted by that, good. It also proves
you're fearful, by way of insecurity). Which simply means I know that
sound perception in audio doesn't stop at Newtonian laws. My system
knows it too you could say, because I took a $300 dollar system and
added $5,000 dollars to its sound, with about $8 of materials available
from a dollar store, in the space of a few weeks. Its the nattiest
placebo effect on earth. If placebos were THIS effective, there
wouldn't be a need to produce medication!
THE TRUE NATURE OF PROOF AND PLACEBO:
Not that I'm saying that to "prove" anything to anybody, since
"proving things" was never my goal, and neither was "being believed".
Objectivists", always think you have to "prove" your claims about
audio. Uh, I don't think so. That's a pointless excercise in futility,
and it has nothing to do with reality about audio. A reality that very
few self-professed experts know anything about. Why? Because they don't
try "unproven" techniques, for one thing. Only YOU can prove ANYTHING
to yourself. Do CD players sound alike, or do good turntables sound
better than CD players? Forget asking anyone, only YOU can know, by
listening. What about amps, cables, wire, spikes, isolation feet, green
markers, cd demagnitizers, shakti stones, gsic chips, clever little
clocks, pinhole paper with aspirin, holy water... I give you people the
same answer to *all* of it. Only YOU can prove whether these things are
audible, whether they matter. And only a herd-mentality fool would look
to someone else to answer the question about whether a tweak or audio
component is audible. (individual models of components is a different
matter... you cant always get your hands on the component).
The objectivists, ie. Arny Krueger, tell us that even if they do hear
differences, they still don't hear differences. Why? Because ABX tests
say there's no differences. Oh okay then. Lets chuck our BRAINS OUT
THE FREAKING WINDOW and pray to the ABX comparator. Then there's the
other fear-based arguments I've heard ad nauseum from the perpetually
insecure: It's a placebo!
Right. A greater bunch of thinkers there never were.... Got a
newsflash, my little sheep friends:"EVERYTHING is a placebo".
EVERYTHING is autosuggestion. EVERYTHING is an expectation effect. In
audio, PLACEBOS DON'T EXIST. Or they ALWAYS EXIST. Same difference.
What that means for the perpetually slow in the head, is that it
doesn't matter if a perception comes from a placebo or is actually
there. What matters is that YOU perceive it. If you perceive it to be
there, IT'S THERE. In the case of my seriously tweaked up stereo,
almost entirely done using quantum principles (such as the pinhole
paper etc) that according to EVERYONE here should have no effect,
others perceived the changes as well. So I'm fully aware that it
doesn't matter what I say, people will always believe these tweaks are
placebos. Again, even if everyone that listens to my stereo is also
suffering from a mass delusion, as are the millions who hear
differences among cd layers, its still a moot point. In audio, there's
no difference between a placebo and a non placebo perception. Here's
another newflash: Stereo itself is an illusion! Home theatre systems
even more so. You WANT placebos in this case. If you heave a heart
condition and your life depends on pills, then you DON'T want a
placebo! Get it now? (The sheep go: Baaaaa! Baaaaa! and all run around
mad. Does not compute! Does not compute! You're lying to us! You're a
bad evil horrible horrible man!)
HYSTERICAL PARANOIA GETS A NEW NAME: "REC.AUDIO.OPINION"
>From the beginning to the end, people tried to vilify me in an
increasing (and amusing) variety of ways. For most of the time, until
he got tired of it and his impotent voice drowned out by the derision
of others, Westface was killing himself to try to make a liar out of
me. Making up false inconsistencies over the most trivial matters, and
then fabricating them into alleged "LIES!!". Everything from insisting
I was lying about who's tweaks they were, to who's system it was that I
had tweaked. Then he said I lied about having posted the details of
said system, after the idiot forgot what he had previously read about
the components that make up my system. Several others called me a
"crook", including the goofball who calls himself, appropriately:
"Goofball". He called me a "shill", and fabricated the idea that I had
a business selling the tweaks, and then insisted that I should
"confess" about my secret shill agenda, with the fervence of a Nazi
interrogator. Robert, and numerous others also implied that I had
business ties to some tweak organization, and that this was the purpose
of my presence.
I was also called a "horrible, evil man", and threatened at virtual
gunpoint, as well as with litigation. I've had malicious web sites
created in my name, I've had my IP address analyzed and
over-analyzed, I've had Goofballs scouring the web for background
info on me, and so on. Naturally, after being attacked so many times, I
started attacking back on occasion, and it was a pleasure to do so.
You've proven that insults and mockery is the only language you boys
understand. But trust me... whoever I attacked well deserved it
(except in one case with Robert, whom I apologized to, because we'd
both been the victim of a forger). And whoever I attacked got off easy.
Be grateful for that. I didn't feel a need to be as harsh with you as
most of you were with me, because you're not any kind of a threat to
me, as I am to most of you.
Many people attacked me for attacking my attackers. Typical of the
hypocrites and the hypocrisy that proliferates on RAO like lies and
false bravado do, not a single person singled out anyone for their
abuse toward me. George would say I'm whining about this, but I'm
simply stating a fact. A fact about how everyone here is a hypocrite.
Except me. Because unlike everyone else, ie. Krueger, I never pretended
that I wasn't attacking my attackers. Paul Packer said my tweaks were
like dropping a ton of bricks on the group, and that was his excuse as
to why I was attacked the way I was. "What did you expect?", he
complained. Well what was I supposed to do? Introduce it gradually and
subtlety into the conversation thusly?:
SHP: "Yeah well, I was constructing some DIY Cat 5 cables according to
the Venhaus recipe, and after placing a glass of holy water next to my
CD player to improve the sound, I rolled out exactly 4.7m and found
that this was the ideal length for speaker cabling and IC wiring. "
Maybe that would have prevented any ridicule or mockery of my findings,
do ya think? Right. Props to Jenn, the only RAO regular who did not
attack me. Says something about the maturity of women. Although she is
counted on the "sheep" list as having called my tweaks silly, without
trying any of them. After all, how can sheep breed if there are no
females in the flock? I noted that Arnold Kruger actually attacked Jenn
for not denouncing my tweaks in a manner as bold as he would have
liked. This was a new height in risible ignorance: One blind ignorant
bigot condemning another for not demonstrating their ignorance as much
as was felt they should. ("What, you think yer better'n us, Miss
Prissy? Too high falutin' ta ridicule the tweak freak? Ridicule the
man already, and show that you're one of us, goldarnit!").
Then, what appears to be the contender to the King of The Imbeciles Of
RAO, "Goofball", a bitter, failed ex-tweak merchant, thought he was
going to "get me" by doing background research on my IP address and the
name in my email address. After finding the phrase on a web site, the
person some considered to be the "genius of RAO", had to find a picture
to match the phrase, so he could come back and tell his friends on RAO
that he conquered the "Soundhaspriority" dragon, and exposed him. And
what does the big bad dragon look like? Well, apparently... I look like
a quaint little old English lady, trying to get the car started on a
blustery winter day. Goofball, the goof, quite seriously insisted I
was her. When people weren't taking him seriously enough, he stomped
his feet and clenched his fists and yelled at the top of his voice,
that I was the old lady outside her car - and that people should stop
doubting what he says (because he's a "genius"....). The only fool
that really did take him seriously, and who still thinks I'm the old
lady shovelling snow behind her car (even though the photo doesn't
actually show her doing that....), was Middius. Who based on that
picture, called me "Shovels". How quaint!
And what kind of a person IS "Shovels"? Welll.... according to some,
I'm poorly educated. According to others, highly educated. Some say I'm
an idiot, others, I'm highly intelligent. Some say I don't know the
first thing about audio, others called me an audio guru. Some insisted
I was a troll, others? Well I'm sincere, of course. Some of the same
people who said I was a troll, also said I was sincere. Some people
called me a "newbie", others said I've been here for years. Frankly, if
I based my identity on what RAO people said about me, I'd be one very
confused tweako freako.
The rampant paranoia that people here suffer from makes the group look
like a wacked out meeting club for conspirational theorists. If I
listed all the examples, it'd be twice as long as this post. You can
start with Walt's sig which states: "There is no Belt conspiracy"
(he's implying there is, of course, and that I'm it). Go to
Robert's allegations that I'm a shill, among those of others. Then
there are the endless conspiracy theories about all the different
people that RAO participants claimed I was. Which included, from what I
recall: "Lionel", "Jamie", "Mrs. Belt", "André", "Benchimol", "Bob",
and both Wallace and Gromit. All this insane and idiotic conjecture
from the inhabitants of RAO reminds me of a line in a song from Dire
Straits, which goes:
"Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong....".
"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is
opinion." - Democritus of Abdera
"PROOF? THIS IS RAO, BUDDY! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' "PROOF"!":
That's not entirely true, of course. The objectivists are constantly
making calls for "proof", and so are the subjectivists, particularly
when it's a personal issue. But one thing that both groups of fools
could unanimously decide on, was that I'm insane and so are my silly
tweak ideas. Proof not necessary. In fact, all the other things that
were said about me that weren't true, such as who I was or what my
motivations were, were considered "fact". Proof not necessary, because
it's already been established as a "fact". And how, pray tell, does a
"fact" get established on RAO? Well, far as I can tell, there are two
rules involved in the process:
Rule no. 1: If one person on RAO with a "credible" reputation says it,
"it's a fact!". George Middius knows this rule well, and used it when
he lied to the group about what was communicated in private email from
me to him, hoping to establish his lies as "fact", merely by
credibility of reputation.
Rule no. 2: If you can find a second person with a "credible
reputation" to confirm what the first presumptuous idiot said, then
it's a "inalienable fact set in stone".
For example, I have a Rotel 820A. Except I don't *know* what a "Rotel
820A" is. I know what an 855 is (a cd player I had in the 80's). But
because one RAO member, Goofball again, stated I had a Rotel 820A,
voila! I have a Rotel 820A now. Paul Packer was seen commenting with
George about my Rotel 820A. Did anyone come and ask ME if I had a Rotel
820A? Don't be silly! Not even necessary. It was already established
as an inalienable fact on RAO according to Rule no. 2. And you wonder
why I call you people "mindless sheep"? You believe what you're told,
because your minds are on autopilot. So if you're told something that
isn't true, such as "audio begins and ends with Newtonian laws", you
don't think to question it, even if someone comes along and says
"maybe it isn't true, why not take 30 seconds to question it?". Not
questioning things leaves you on safe, familiar ground. Questioning
things pulls you into riskier, scarier territory. And it requires
effort on your part.
This is why "real facts" on RAO, are about as rare as hen's teeth.
Here are two "real" facts, that I've been able to conclude:
FACT #1. ALL TWEAKS HAVE BEEN SWEEPINGLY DISMISSED BY ALL MEMBERS OF
THIS NEWSGROUP.
FACT #2. NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN PRODUCED TO
JUSTIFY DENOUNCING THE "TWEAK" TECHNIQUES.
I put those facts in caps not because I'm shouting, but to stress the
most important conclusion of my study on this group. It allows me to
use terms like "bigots', "ignorant pigs", "mindless sheep",
"presumptuous fools", "insecure dweebs", and so on, rightfully and
without prejudice. I get to do that, because: see FACT #2.
When I asked on what basis they were dismissing the tweaks without
trying them, the attitude most people have had is one of "you are
insane to even ask that". For example, when I asked Steve Sullivan, who
claims to be a trained scientist, what was the reason that he didn't
try the tweaks, he said it was because I was insane (along with 99% of
the group, none of whom have ever provided evidence of this claim).
Then when I asked what I thought was a fair question, which is what
proof did he have that I was insane, he did not reply except to say he
would use that in his "sig". (Which since has been: "Excuse me? What
proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority)
A *trained scientist* mind you. Someone who might actually have a
chance at understanding the concepts behind the tweaks, or at the very
least, *should* as both an audiophile and trained scientist, have
enough scientific curiousity to see if there is anything behind the
tweaks, since they only take seconds to apply. When he discovered that
the tweaks may have a scientific grounding, and that this may fall
within the laws of quantum mechanics, did RAO's self-professed
"trained scientist" apply a scientist's thirst for knowledge to try
to discover more about the theories? Was his scientific curiousity
aroused to the degree where he at least asked what area of quantum
mechanics the tweaks might be based on, in order to see if there was
any validity to the theories? Well no, actually not. As to educating
himself about all the theories behind the tweaks, he didn't do jack
squat. Instead, here was his response:
--------------------------------------------------
Steve Sullivan writes:
"When someone selling something starts babbling about quantum
mechanics, consumers should hide their wallets and reach for their
guns. Steve Sullivan."
--------------------------------------------------
In other words, a mighty sweeping dismissal of products, ideas and
theories he has NO clue about, offering NO evidence whatsoever to
support his sweeping dismissal. If this guy's a scientist, and I
don't believe it for a minute, he's the first "redneck scientist"
I've come up against. This is what they call "truth by assertion".
It's this "sliding scale reality" that I underline, is a consistent
element that connects almost all of you. It exemplifies your prejudice,
bias, and complete isolation from the truth and reality.
"Consciousness is a being, the nature of which is to be conscious of
the nothingness of its being." - Jean-Paul Sartre
"OH, SO YOU DON'T WANT TO TRY SHOVING YOUR WET HANDS INTO A BARE
MAINS SOCKET TO IMPROVE THE SOUND? THEN YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE, AND
WE'VE JUST PROVED YOU'RE NO LESS IGNORANT THAN WE ARE!"
....I got crap like that a lot. I mean, a LOT. It is a way that
ignorant, small-minded children have of trying to reassure themselves
that they really aren't the ignorant bigots they're being made out
to be. Rather, that they are reasonable, intelligent thinking beings,
that are simply being "careful" about what they will and won't try.
For example....
Q. The sheep nay: "Well if we try *your* "crazy" ideas, even though we
have not provided any proof to justify calling them "crazy", then why
not try every "crazy" idea that anyone can think of?! Like licking a
live mains wire to get the electrons flowing better! Or putting
cucumber slices under our speakers! Huh? Why, not, huh? You're CRAZY,
if you think we're that stupid!"
A. The guru responds: You *are* that stupid, but unfortunately and
contrary to popular opinion in the hog farm that is RAO, I'm not in
the least bit crazy. I have never advocated dangerous tweaks, as
advocated by Robert (who even tried to get me to advocate a dangerous
tweak, in order to try to discredit my valid tweaks), Sander, and
numerous others who thought they were being clever and funny by mocking
my sincere tweaks with their insincere tweaks. At least I did manage to
get people talking about "tweaks" (although I don't care much for
that term...). Before me, I think there was about 3 or 4 messages about
tweaks in the history of this group. You guys are gonna have a hard
time forgetting me and the concept of "tweaks", that much I know.
One primary difference between my tweaks and all of those who have
posted an endless amount of tweak ideas ever since I came on the group,
is that I actually tried all of the ideas I advocated. They did
absolutely no harm in any way, and only benefited my system, according
to my abilities in perceiving sound quality. I wouldn't even advocate
a tweak that I did not feel was truly a benefit to the sound quality,
unless I state otherwise. Many so-called audiophiles can't even tell
what is a benefit to the sound and what isn't, so can't even get
that much about audio, right. For example... everyone that uses metal
spikes under their speakers or equipment is actually ruining the sound
quality. And because they're *not* "advanced audiophiles", because
they are instead "mindless sheep" who prefer to be told what to think,
they're not even aware of how they are hindering their sound quality
with spikes and graphite blocks and squash balls and concrete blocks
and other things that take you in the opposite direction to good sound.
In my very first tweak post, the reason I wrote the faux "ad" that way,
(advertising FREE tweaks to lure unsuspecting RAO members into my cult,
where I shake them down for every bit of spare change that they
have...), was to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were. I
reasoned that the superficial among you will see it as an "attack" of
some sort that you have to defend against (ie. scam). The more profound
thinkers will see through the superficial, and get at the meaningful
bits, which are the tweaks. And try the tweaks, to see if its
meaningful for them. So yes, I was having my fun with you little
sheepies.
Guess what? You ALL failed the test, by a country mile. You're ALL
superficial thinkers. The closest anyone of you came to overcoming your
intellectual insecurities, was Mr. Morein. Ironically, since he's
probably otherwise the most neurotic person on the group. And someone
who I was sure was a troll due to all the messages I'd read against
him, but I welcomed him anyway, when he emailed me for information.
That's what you call being "open minded". Insisting that I perform
stupid fake tweaks by idiots who are trying to mock me isn't.
I mention the last bit, because as I said, many of you insecure lot
questioned the very idea of trying tweaks that don't make sense to dumb
ignorant people. You figure its the -tweaks- that are stupid, silly,
and ignorant. And not you. But I was surprised to find that some of
you, nevertheless, actually consider yourselves "open-minded" and not
part of the herd-mentality! LOL! If only that were true, it wouldn't
be so funny! Anyway, this creates a conflict, which you resolve by
trying to argue that if someone tries one of the tweaks I posted, then
where does one draw the limit?
And so you think you're intelligent and clever by showing me examples,
in trying to turn the tables on ol' "soundhaspriority". When in fact
you're just being dumb and predictable again, just as you are when you
mock and ridicule my tweaks without trying them. The example that
people like Goofball, Sander deWaal, Dave Weill, George Middius, Deano
(my imposter!), and so very many others have tried to show me falls
flat on its face, for several reasons. Here are some of them:
a) "Accusing" me of not being open-minded for not trying the fake
tweaks, is hypocritical, since all of you who gave me your tweak ideas,
had not tried any of mine. Which makes you closed-minded, and yet, not
one of you was ever willing to admit that you are closed-minded. Which
makes you even more profoundly closed-minded. Ignorant as well, since
you remain willfully ignorant of your closed-mindedness.
b) Every single one of you who shared your fake tweaks with me were
being insincere. And stupidly insincere at that. (All of your mocking
tweaks were unoriginal and mostly variations of the ideas I posted,
which showed how little imagination that people here have). I note that
the things in my first tweak that scared people the most, were the
aspirin and the cat picture. These are the things you couldn't stop
ridiculing, even though the basis of the tweak is really the pinholed
paper.
c) None of you in discussing my tweaks with me, ever offered sincere,
reasonable, practical, intelligent tweaks that you were willing to try
yourselves. So you don't know that I would have been open with them.
d) Some of the posturing arguments you fools have given me is that I
can't be sure if your tweaks are fake or not, since they "sound" as
crazy as mine. Except I am sure, and you would be deceitful to argue
your point with me, knowing what we both know, about the mocking tweaks
from my detractors being fake.
e) Another would-be argument is that your closed-mindedness can be
excused, because the tweaks "sound silly and insane". After all, NO
ONE, as Goofball informed me, tries tweaks "that sound silly and
insane". Which he was proven foolish and wrong on, since I'm a living
example of someone who tries tweaks that sound silly and insane (to
sheep and ignorant pigs, that is).
I read a Stereophile article on the net not too long ago, which if I
recall talked about tweaks like the green marker, and such. And the
author had decided which tweaks should and shouldn't be tested,
according to his standards. Which to my recollection, stated something
like: "If it doesn't cost anything and takes little of your time, why
not try it?".
Indeed, I agree with that one. Why not? , is the question I posed to
RAO. And the group responded, in unison: "Because were closed-minded
ignorant Flatlander fools". And I noted that response in my little
black book, for future reference. And so my experiment is done. Which
means yes, I wont be posting any more insane tweaks! Too bad! You all
seem to have adopted the very mistaken attitude that you're doing me a
favour by trying my tweaks. You're not. You'd be doing yourself a
favour, but I'm a lunatic, so what do I know? <shrug> Whether you do or
don't want to, does not affect my life one bit. It does however, affect
my study of you. But that's merely a statistical detail you needn't
worry about.
"Sound has priority" is, as I tried to explain to the King Of Fools
(Goofball), a self-contained tweak. What is known as a "morphic
message". Thousands of people use the phrase to improve their sound
perception, which is what makes it powerful. Similar in concept to the
life energy force known as "Chi" and other names. But of course, that
too can be safely dismissed as "new age nonsense" by the brilliant,
educated, enlightened minds on RAO (such as it was by Dave Weil).
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which
differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are
even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein
ABOUT SOMA (The "Society of Open Minded Audiophiles", previously "The
Secret Society of Advanced Audiophiles" (SSAA)):
When I said in my first message the tweaks were for "advanced
audiophiles", that was true, and I meant it (even though I knew it
would probably be responded to by everyone but). My colleagues in the
non-conventional audio community estimate that were 15-20 years ahead
of the rest of the audio community and the audio industry. That
basically means we have to sit patiently and wait 15-20 years for the
rest of you mindless lemmings to catch up with laws of non-Newtonian
science, as they apply to sensory perception. Theoretically, this means
that George Middius should be expecting his first retirement benefits
from RAO, by the time he realizes the tweaks work. But I don't buy
that. I believe that estimate is far too conservative. I estimate that
we are at least 40-50 years ahead of the industry. It's been at least
25 years that the research on these advanced audio concepts exists.
Some people are so far behind present knowledge, they're still
arguing about whether CABLES and wire, CABLES mind you, have an audible
effect. Good lord, the same arguments about whether amps or cd players
sound any different, or whether LP is better than CD, that you can read
about ten or fifteen years ago, are still being argued today on
newsgroups like RAO. Trying to explain patiently to the backward audio
nuts that are so far behind, they still don't get it that amps,
cables, cd players, turntables, spikes, etc. all have audible effects,
is a pointless waste of time. Small wonder, these are people that
believe the more speakers, sound processors, metal and watts you can
have, the better life is.
Obviously for some, audio progress advances VERY slowly, if at all. For
others, ie. me, not quickly enough. One thing I believe for certain,
is that in 15-20 years, you ignorant bigots will still be mocking and
ridiculing advanced audio concepts without having ever experimented
with them in depth as I have. Continuing to wallow in your ignorance
for the length of your small lives, mocking everything you don't
understand, before ever trying to understand it.
One member here, who when I said my time was limited, asked me to stay
longer. Adding that I'd make a good dinner guest. And during my stay, I
would have been glad to pull up a chair, and explain some of the
findings, the research and the principles of non-conventional audio
with all of you. So that we may learn from each other, and share
diverse interests within the hobby that we all have an interest in, to
one extent or other. For even if people disagree, they can disagree
with respect, in a way that does not invalidate the other's
intelligence and experience. I even tried to dot hat by trying to get
people into a conversation about what problem they had with the ideas.
But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your prejudices), no
one made a place for me to sit. On this group of audio bigots, I'm
basically the "black guy" at a dinner table populated by klu klux klan
members. On top of that, I'm trying to explain to you klan members a
bit about my black culture, and how important tolerance of other races
(ideas) is. Whilst you're loading up your shotguns, clubs, and assorted
"red neck party gear" you all carry with you "to work" (which by the
sheer volume of posting from many of you, your employer appears to be
RAO. I hope it provides health care benefits, because sitting in front
of a computer screen every day for years on end and dishing out
derision is bound to have a toll on one's mental health) . So I
agree, I do make a good dinner guest but... I don't think I want to
have dinner with "you people" (as I've been referred to by some RAO
members).
Besides, I'm no longer on holiday, which means I'll be returning to
work soon and will have less time to play with you children anyway. I
know some of you are really despondent about that (and I can hear
George trying to muffle sobs and whimpers, because he was deathly bored
before I came along, and I gave him purpose in life during my entire
presence). Nevertheless. I'm sure that you people are eager beaver to
add your usual insulting, mocking and condescending replies, so I'll
get out of the way and let you get it out of your primitive minded
systems. Please don't be shy letting me know how you feel about me,
as you were in the past. I can take it. I'm made of stronger stuff
than you are.
Go on and let your scream out!
-soundhaspriority
p.s. For bottom-liners: No matter your politics, you are all part of a
sheep status quo. Me? I laugh in the face of orthodoxy! And so I laugh
in your faces: Ha. Ha. (pause.....). Ha.
Ha.
Thank you for an enlightening experience, and a wonderful time.
"It is a courageous man (or woman) who attempts to introduce a new
concept." - May Belt
George M. Middius
April 3rd 06, 04:41 AM
Shovels apparently gave up boozing for a day in favor of reality-bending
narcotics.
> The joke is this: the tweaks actually work. All of them.
You're a generation late, Shovie. You belong in the time of Timothy Leary,
Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, et al.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Free Blow Jobs
Robert Morein
April 3rd 06, 05:40 AM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
Ha! Made ya look! Sorry, I'm just kidding. But seriously, you really
*are* a bunch of closed-minded ignorant pigs. You're really "ignorant
bigots", but "pigs" has such a nice ring to it, don't you think? BTW,
I'm not saying that to be as rude, disrespectful and insulting as you
were toward me from the very beginning. I'm not trying to attack
anyone, as you have all attacked me from the very beginning. I'm saying
that simply because its true.
Dear Mr. Graham:
It is my inclination that the text of your rather lengthy post is
untrue. However, I acknowledge that Peter and Mary Belt may have been
watching with keen interest.
Regards,
Robert Morein
GeoSynch
April 3rd 06, 05:48 AM
SHP swoons into a swan song:
> I'm not trying to attack anyone, as you have all attacked me...
In the immortal words (paraphrased perhaps) of Basil Fawlty:
"Do I detect the smell of burning martyr?"
But look at the bright side, old boy: you avoided the snake-oil
salesman plight of being tarred-and-feathered before being run
out of town.
GeoSynch
Clyde Slick
April 3rd 06, 05:49 AM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Thank you for an enlightening experience, and a wonderful time.
whatever
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
Steven Sullivan
April 3rd 06, 06:18 AM
Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E Coyote-style
*super genius*.
Does this mean he'll be ****ing off now? If so,
can he take the rest of you subjectivist nutbars with
him?
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Fella
April 3rd 06, 09:02 AM
For someone who exists in a state of constant masturbation you sure can
write a lot. Sheeesh. Do you really expect anyone to read all this crap?
wrote:
<endless meaningless chihuahua yelping gobbbledygok snipped>
Arny Krueger
April 3rd 06, 10:23 AM
"Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
> Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E Coyote-style
> *super genius*.
> Does this mean he'll be ****ing off now? If so,
> can he take the rest of you subjectivist nutbars with
> him?
No such luck.
Sylvan Morein, DDS
April 3rd 06, 12:37 PM
In article . com,
" > wrote:
> You've proven that insults and mockery is the only language you boys
> understand. But trust me... whoever I attacked well deserved it
> (except in one case with Robert, whom I apologized to, because we'd
> both been the victim of a forger). And whoever I attacked got off easy.
The fact that *YOU* were so easily suckered and trolled disproves the
entirety of your wordy missive, despite your attempt to bury this key and
important fact. You were in fact one of the victims of "Tweak the Goons on
RAO". Get a mirror, view a goon!
You were proven to be just as big an ignorant pig as Robert, Middius, Weil,
NYOB, and the rest of the lameass jerks here. There is only one king here,
that's the only REAL truth. And you ain't it, sport.
"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may
deride it, but in the end, there it is."
You were bested. By the best. Get over it.
wrote:
> Ha! Made ya look! Sorry, I'm just kidding. But seriously, you really
> *are* a bunch of closed-minded ignorant pigs. You're really "ignorant
> bigots", but "pigs" has such a nice ring to it, don't you think? BTW,
> I'm not saying that to be as rude, disrespectful and insulting as you
> were toward me from the very beginning. I'm not trying to attack
> anyone, as you have all attacked me from the very beginning. I'm saying
> that simply because its true. Its not insulting if it's actually the
> truth. This message is intended to prove that... (well I don't mean to
> those that I'm calling closed-minded ignorant pigs in the first place,
> since you would never admit that you were).
>
>
> "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may
> deride it, but in the end, there it is."
>
> - Winston Churchill
>
>
> ABOUT "PROJECT TWEAK THE GOONS":
>
> First, I'd like to thank you all for taking part in my excercise. ("Ha!
> I knew we were being played!", Dizzy cried). Sit down Dizzy, you
> didn't't get the prize. You're still a clueless twit. In a
> certain way, it might be said that you *were* being played, but don't
> feel bad about that. You fools were being played by "the best there is,
> and the best there ever *was*, on RAO" (tm). However, you were not
> being played in the ways you thought you were being played. But then,
> all your misguided speculations is one of those many reasons why I
> consider most of you regulars to be the fools that you are. All these
> paranoid fears you expressed weren't entirely misappropriated however,
> because I *was* playing a joke on you all. It just isn't the same joke
> you simple minds thought it was...
>
> Some of my colleagues have been watching this tweak drama unfold with
> "appalled fascination" ;-). The kickstart to Project "Tweak The Goons
> on RAO", despite knowing that I would be "putting pearls before swine"
> as it were, was to win a wager I had made with a colleague. We bet a
> case of lager that I could find the biggest audio discussion newsgroup
> on the net, publish as many free alternative tweaks as I wanted... and
> not a single person would ever try any of them. Okay, guess who won?
> (glug glug glug....). I'm sure he realized the same outcome as I did,
> but we both thought it was a fun social experiment to perform on you
> audio lab rats. During this experiment, I've been watching you pigs
> honking away, scurrying here and there in your efforts to evade the
> truth (thinking you've already found it). Sometimes I see you geting
> a little closer to the truth, sometimes you get it spot on (almost
> always by accident). Most of the time, you are at the exact opposite
> location of where the truth resides. You make these risible attempts to
> grasp it, but fail to realize, theres nothing in your grasp. It's the
> "risible" that kept me enthralled, and remaining longer than I
> expected to.
>
> I'm sorry if I seemed "snotty" to some of you. I know that I can come
> off sounding a bit "superior" and all sometimes. But that's because I
> am. Not in "every possible way" mind you, and certainly not in
> conventional principles of audio (I never claimed conventional audio as
> my profession, and few here can make that claim). But superior
> nevertheless. Philosophically (which is why I will never make RAO my
> lifelong hangout, as many here have). Because staying on this group on
> a regular basis, doling out derision after scorn after derision is
> really bad for your mental and spiritual health; and all that dumb
> negativity does not do good things for the sound of your stereo. Sad
> fact is, anybody that has THAT much steam to let off that they need to
> do this every day of their lives, has deeper problems than what RAO can
> offer in terms of therapy (are you listening, George?). So if you think
> I think I'm better than you trailer trash pigs, I do. But that's
> only because I am.
>
> I'm also superior in my knowledge of non-conventional audio
> principles, products and ideas. A relatively new area of audio of which
> absolutely no one here knows anything about, except me. So while I
> never claimed to have superior technical expertise over everyone (I
> don't), I do have superior knowledge to all of those present on this
> group, as to what produces good sound in an audio system. That's not
> arrogance speaking, it's a reflection of what is true. I've read
> and taken in enough opinions from people about audio to know this for
> fact. My system, which according to the viewpoint shared by most
> audiophiles here, should sound like crap and have exploded 7 years ago,
> is a living testament to my abilities to produce good sound. Another
> thing that many people here have a hard time wrapping their heads
> around, is the idea that these two are not mutually inclusive. Knowing
> how to design an amplifier doesn't mean you know how to make it sound
> good, or even what "good sound" sounds like (most audiophiles who
> haven't reached advanced stages, don't even get that right). A
> living testatment to that is the sheer amount of bad sounding
> amplifiers on the market.
>
>
> "SO WHAT'S THE JOKE?":
>
> Oh yes, that. The joke is this: the tweaks actually work. All of them.
> You see, I may have had my fun with you, but I didn't really troll
> anyone over the tweaks. You trolled yourself, by believing it was a
> troll. Through most of this, not a single chap ever bothered to ask me
> what the tweaks were based on, if anything. Instead, you decided you
> already knew (closed mind goes no further, presumption limits
> knowledge). Instead of asking me what the tweaks were about, you took
> an offensive position and told me what the tweaks were about. So
> followed message after message from one RAO regular after another,
> calling the tweaks or me "silly", "insane", and calling me a "troll"
> for putting them out there.
>
> Consider this: If my tweaks were valid, meaning that they could be
> perceived by those with hearing sensitive enough to do so, and a
> willingness to consider that they may be perceptible, then everything
> that I ever said about you all being ignorant bigots (and all the other
> insults that come with it), would be justified, wouldn't it? Now
> consider this: NO ONE HERE ever tried my tweaks, or even proved that
> they don't work. So at the very least, logic would dictate, that the
> question as to whether I am right about you all being ignorant pigs,
> and ALL wrong about me and about yourselves, is as of this writing,
> still OPEN.
>
> Now instead of asking me what I'm about (wrt the tweaks), you spent
> your time with me telling me what I'm about (the arrogance of
> stupidity, the stupidity of arrogance; see: speculation, conjecture).
> Rather than question how the ideas are applied, all you could think to
> do was question my motivation for sharing them (distrust, fear of the
> unknown). Even though I had already mentioned my (primary) motivation
> for sharing the tweaks from the beginning. Which was to try to help
> people improve their sound - if they wanted help. But that was too
> simple, and wasn't good enough for the insecure goonies of RAO, no! You
> were all too "clever" to believe that one. Because as it appears, no
> regular contributor here would think to help others reading the group.
> And I don't blame anyone for not trying to post helpful articles, and
> only posting stupid joke tweaks that help people get killed and
> electrocuted. It tends to get in the way of the fighting and the
> backstabbing, that you all congregate here for on a daily basis.
>
>
> "Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it.
> Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself." - Chief Seattle
>
>
> "IF THE TWEAKS ARE NOT A TROLL'S JOKE, THEN DOESN'T THAT MEAN
> *WE'RE* THE IGNORANT FOOLS AND NOT YOU?":
>
> Uh... YAH. I reiterate, the tweaks are not the joke. You are. I've
> personally tested every tweak and dozens more similar concepts and
> products. Not only do I hear differences, but I've tested them blind
> and double blind on non-audiophiles, who hear the same differences.
> That doesn't mean because I or some others can hear differences, that
> everyone else always will, and that it will hit them like a sock in the
> head. Sorry to have to tell you people this, but nobody and nothing in
> audio works that way. Not even with speakers. Some hear differences in
> things and some don't, all depends on their threshold of audibility.
> But I can say that among those who have tried and heard audible
> benefits from either "my" tweaks, or ideas and audio products based on
> their advanced concepts include; medical doctors, psychiatrists,
> lawyers, audio engineers, audio accessory and equipment manufacturers,
> and professional audio journalists, including but not limited to: Jimmy
> Hughes, Carol Clark, Bill Kenny, Alvin Gold, Greg Weaver, Robert J.
> Harley, Roger S. Gordon
> (http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue8/belt.htm). As well of course,
> non-professionals, like most of the people here.
>
> Most are not developed by me, and so "not my tweaks".
> http://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2005/Sep05/Snark.htm
> Most have already been tried by actual "open minded" audiophiles (the
> avant garde of the audio community) the world over, and have been
> proven effective by most who've heard them. Most are based on
> theories rooted in established sciences of which none of you
> ignoramuses would know anything about, since you never bothered to
> research them. Hundreds and thousands have people have either tried my
> tweaks, or other ideas or products based on their principles. Which
> are? Some are based on principles of quantum mechanics, some are based
> on Dr. Rupert Sheldrake's work on morphic resonances. Some are based on
> work by Dr. Ibrahim Karim and others on Dr. Masaru Emoto. All are
> alternative concepts, except for the one "bonus" Newtonian tweak
> (speaker grounding). Which I threw in there just to get a different
> reaction. And it certainly did...
>
> Upwards of a hundred messages all pouncing on me for posting that
> tweak, viciously attacking me for deliberately trying to blow up
> people's amplifiers by advocating a grounding scheme that was sure to
> do that. And all the while that I was reading this complete tripe, I
> had my stereo on in the background. The one that had my speakers
> grounded to it, that was supposed to have blown up. To drive the point
> home, I challenged many of my detractors to come and see my system and
> the speaker grounding technique in action, to prove that it is not
> harmful, and does in fact greatly elevate the sound quality. On the
> promise that I would pay for their travel expenses if I could not prove
> what I claimed. That's when everyone shut up real fast. Not a SINGLE
> person took me up on my offer.
>
> Getting a "different reactions" was the whole point of the excercise,
> really. Frankly, I find your group to be quite boring. Your rare
> discussions on audio are dumb, and rarely if ever at all interesting.
> Just one dumb audiophile blasting out his prejudicial opinions to
> another dumb audiophile, both audiophiles never having gotten past the
> very beginning stages of audiophilia, and no one here ever convinces
> anyone to change their mind about anything. This group is really just
> a proving ground for your overinflated egos, than an educational forum.
> A perfect example of how dumb that people here really are, can be seen
> in the amount of attacks I got for the length of my messages. When
> stupid sheep are challenged to read something longer than two-line
> quips, they get angry and hostile. And so out come the wailing, whining
> criticisms about the length of my posts (as though I am somhow forcing
> dumb people to read them?!), and they even include dumb comments about
> how "rambling" my posts are... when that couldn't be further from the
> truth.
>
> Dumb people with short attention spans will always believe that
> anything longer than 2 lines is "rambling", because their little minds
> can't follow it. They're not used to reading "books", you see. They
> already get all their knowledge from ESPN, without having to waste
> energy flipping pages. To display their idiocy even further, the same
> critics about the length of my posts arrogantly believe they were
> written for my subject, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
> They are always written for my own amusement, the subject if there is
> one, is merley the catalyst to that. Scanning the entire history of
> this newsgroup, mine are just about the only posts archived that have
> anything worthwhile or meaningful to say. A full 98-99% of the posts
> that I've read here are disposable pieces of tripe; pointless,
> meaningless, rambling dross. And then there are the "attack" posts,
> which are even worse.
>
> Although I made a great impact during my time here (and picked up an
> entire crew of SHP groupies; which included stalkers, ankle biters and
> imposters in just a few short weeks!), I was also hoping to change the
> level of discussion of audio for at least a short time. But of course,
> it never got to the "discussion" stage, because all everybody was
> interested in was trolling and attacking me. The only thing you knew
> for sure is that the tweaks were free, and had the potential to improve
> your sound, or do nothing. True and passionate audiophiles that you
> are, you chose to go with "do nothing"! (LOL!)
>
> Apart from the sincerity of the tweaks themselves, I was basically
> having fun with you predictable and ignorant lot of sheep elsewhere. As
> I've said many times, most of you regulars are nothing but insincere
> trolls (or even stalkers, as many behaved toward me), fishing for a
> reaction from your opponents. But even so, I had no problem trolling
> you, whenever or wherever I wanted. Trolling RAO goons is not even a
> challenge to me. Look how easy it is: I knew, for example, that titling
> my first post "Tip for OPEN MINDED audiophiles" would be like a honey
> pot, attracting the exact opposite: closed minded audiophiles. Ready to
> "rip me a new one", for having the cheek to post (seemingly) senseless
> tweaks that make no sense to non-thinking sheep. (Who think that
> they're clever little foxes). We (the open minded audiophiles) call you
> people "Flatlanders". Do you know why? I think George does, as I've
> seen him use the term. Except George doesn't realize that he's one
> too.
>
>
> "The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when
> he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself." -
> Archibald MacLeish
>
>
> THE HERD MENTALITY:
>
> What we were trying to observe with you "people", was a process that
> sociologists call the "herd mentality". Basically, it means that you're
> a bunch of non-thinking sheep. This can be seen and even predicted in
> the fact that if you non-thinking sheep see that others are trying such
> "tweaks", then you are far more likely to try them. If you see that
> they don't, then you will "follow the herd". Some examples of "herd
> thinking" are; cables, spikes, interconnects, etc. Concepts that were
> not popularly embraced in the beginning, but are now commonly purchased
> and used, even on a mid-fi level. In fact, the only reason people here
> might believe that amps and sources (ie. cd players) sound different,
> is because there aren't enough Arny Kruegers saying that "everything
> sounds the same". At the onset of the introduction of the CD, most
> players reproduced a sound so shrill and harsh, it pierced you in the
> head like a drill and required a bottle of sedatives before you were
> through with your brief listening session. The ultimate resolution and
> image size (not to mention timbral quality, PRATT, and many other
> factors) didn't even begin to approach what Linnies and other owners
> of good record decks were already able to achieve in the analogue
> domain, with their finely tuned setups.
>
> CD v. LP: The Beginning Of the Endless Debate
>
> Yet many consumers believed the hype that digital sound was superior to
> anything vinyl replay had to offer, and indeed, "perfect sound
> forever". Consumer sheep believed this without, in most cases, ever
> doing an actual comparison with the better record decks available at
> the time. This would be uncharacteristic of course because the idea of
> mindless sheep is that they don't think for themselves. If they had,
> most who'd been convinced of CD's superiority would have been
> convinced otherwise. Ivor Tiefenbrun, the developer of the Linn LP12,
> demonstrated as much to an audience of typical consumers on British
> television, that what they were told to believe about the total
> superiority of CD was in fact, completely false. So much for "perfect
> sound". With CD rot turning up in the thousands producing unplayable
> CDs, evidence came in that not only were they not superior sound as
> claimed, they didn't even last as long as records. You start to
> learn a lot more about audio, or any other subject, when you have
> enough courage or scientific curiousity to step out of the illusory
> world of "theories", and step into the reality of trial and first-hand
> experimentation. It is here where you learn what is and isn't true,
> and what does and does not apply to your understanding of audio; at
> least for yourself.
>
>
> EXCUSES FROM THE WILLFULLY IGNORANT:
>
> I've tried to ask people why they're not trying the tweaks, in order
> to prove my point (I could eliminate those who had valid reasons for
> not trying them, such as they're deaf, they're not skilled enough on
> how to apply them, or as one person said to me, "they can not perceive
> changes because their hearing ability itself changes all the time due
> to personal biological conditions"). Those who had arguably "valid"
> reasons for not trying them, were put in one category. The rest, which
> is most of the regulars here, I put in another category, which I call
> "Flatlanders". Where people have even bothered to state why they're
> against trying them, I fully understand the arguments that they have
> given me, and I note that they all have something in common: they're
> all ignorant and stupid.
>
> I posted tweak after tweak until I satisfied my colleagues that no one
> would try them. Hell, I was told this immediately in my first response
> after posting my first message! It was a very hopeful sign for me... Of
> course, if I conducted the same experiment on rec.audio.tech, or even
> rec.audio.high-end, it would be so predictable, as to truly not be
> worth undertaking. Those places are populated with "objectivist scum".
> You can't write 3 words without somebody demanding a DBT from you. But
> rec.audio.opinion? Well, of all the major audio groups, this is the one
> that is supposed to represent a cross-stream of audiophiles from all
> walks. Yet I showed with my experiment, as I even pointed out in my
> posts, that there really is no difference between an objectivist and a
> subjectivist, here. You're both narrow-minded herd-mentality sheep. Two
> flocks of the same breed, as it were.
>
>
> BATTLE OF THE IDEOLOGICAL NERDS:
>
> Usually, new ideas such as the ones I've presented recently are met
> with resistance from the narrow and closed minded. Traditionally, the
> narrow and closed minded are represented in an exemplary fashion by the
> ideological group that calls themselves "objectivists" (However, they
> are the least objective group I've ever encountered. Even less
> objective than so-called "subjectivists" - who are among the most
> biased and prejudiced of social groups).
>
> Of course, this idea of objectivists and subjectivists is an artificial
> construct of Usenet audio hobbyists. I don't know of any audiophiles
> that call themselves objecivists or subjectivists. You have basically
> allowed people like Arnold to define who you are, according to your
> testing methodology preferences, because he always wants testing
> methodology to be the centerpiece of discussions on this group. With
> Arny having succeeded at that, you're now all killing yourselves to try
> to find an ideological box to pigeonhole me in, so you can figure out
> whether I am to be perceived as a threat or an ally. Because of the
> inherent fears of you mindless sheep, I went from an anal retentive
> objectivist without a sense of humour, to an insane subjectivist who's
> a comedian, to an objectivist troll, and other variations in between.
> Truth is, according to the definition of your labels, I'm both an
> objectivist and subjectivist. When I do blind tests I'm being
> objective, when I don't, I'm being subjective. But even when I'm
> performing subjective listening tests, I'm always trying to be
> objective. Of course, that's not crude and simple enough for the
> loutish swine on this group. Things have to be understood by RAO
> members in terms of extremes; either black or white. If the truth lies
> in between, eventually it will be pushed to one side or another, by a
> RAO regular. And that will become "the new truth".
>
>
> "All great truths begin as blasphemies." - George Bernard Shaw
>
> THE RELIGIONS OF AUDIO:
>
> The situation we find on RAO finds parallels in the greater social
> dogma of religion. Every group of audio hobbyists here is merely
> adhering to their own form of religion. The so-called "objectivists"
> (who are anything but objective), can be considered ardent Xtians, the
> "subjectivists", Protestants (slightly more progressive version of the
> conservative Xtians). Us, the open-minded avant garde of the audio
> community, are Wiccans or Pagans. (Although I have been equated with
> Satan on this group, and also pigeonholed with the usual "alien" and
> "insane" groups).
>
> I know that people wont agree with my assessment, particularly
> "objectivists". But that's because you're ignorant pigs, remember? I'll
> elaborate a little on this, just for the ignorant objectivist pigs.
> Don't think that hiding behind so-called "principles of science"
> excuses you from calling your belief system a "religion". It doesn't.
> Nor does stealing principles from medical sciences (DBT), and awkwardly
> struggling to apply them to principles of audio, particularly
> scientific or effective.
>
> Self-described "objectivists" on Usenet think themselves superior to
> the average consumer, who is blissfully unaware of the use and purpose
> of blind testing methodology, and does not have a technical background
> in audio. The objectivists goal is to "teach" the uninformed average
> audiophile the same false myths that the average mid-fi consumer
> already believes: that sound quality should generally not be a factor
> in deciding among audio equipment, but that specifications (ie. watts)
> and features are more important. The objectivist hijacks and misapplies
> principles of medical science to an inherently subjective and illusory
> practice like listening to music, to make themselves appear
> authoritative.
>
> The objectivist refrain: "If it isn't observed in dbt or abx tests,
> it doesn't exist!". Blissfully ignoring the fact that very FEW of these
> tests ever reveal differences in ANYTHING, or that consumer audio
> equipment was not designed to be evaluated under such conditions. The
> self-deluding objectivist then concludes the tests are inherently
> correct, and the BILLIONS of people that hear things the tests don't
> reveal, are deluded fools. Anything that might suggest the tests are
> not valid, such as the studies done in the 70's on the stresses created
> by abx tests, and other studies that point to the fact that our brain
> processes information differently when undergoing such tests, gets
> dismissed out of hand by Kreuger and company. The notion that you can
> not control everything in a test but the DUT, also gets ignored. The
> only "science" acceptable to objectivists, is always the one that
> supports their lifelong belief system. So objectivists are no more
> "scientists" or Science-minded, than say, the Amish. They believe in
> their quasi scientific religion, just as the Scientiologists believe in
> theirs (and also claim their religion is based on principles of
> science).
>
>
>
> "Knowledge is structured in consciousness. The process of education
> takes place in the field of consciousness; the prerequisite to complete
> education is therefore the full development of consciousness --
> enlightenment. Knowledge is not the basis of enlightenment,
> enlightenment is the basis of knowledge." - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
>
> THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN (or "I Feel So Lost And Confused Because They
> Cant Find a Box To Stuff Me in"):
>
> Interesting that people did not know what to make of me, and their
> fearful paranoid nature immediately came out when I came on the scene.
> Circling around me trying to sniff my rear, you all couldn't even
> figure out whether I was to be put in the "objectivist" category, or
> classified as a subjectivist. This was before, you even knew whether I
> was man, woman or beast. So for a period of time, I was classified by
> one member as an "anal retentive objectivist" troll, others as a
> radical subjectivist troll, and still others accused me of being a
> troll trying to goad the two divisions to go against each other. Which
> is the absolute stupidest thing anyone has ever told me, because it's
> not AS THOUGH YOU NEEDED MY HELP TO FIND A REASON TO ATTACK EACH OTHER.
> What total morons! I've been called a lot of dumb things in my time, by
> a lot of dumb people. "Objectivist" was never one of them. But thank
> you for making me laugh.
>
> But I'm not exempting myself from this "religion" thing. The
> subjectivists have their own religion, and so do the avant garde. But
> instead of learning from each other, y'all would rather rip each others
> throats out, and sling mud at one another. But that's a greater social
> problem that has nothing to do with audio. A lot of it has to do with
> fear, a primal instinct. I've mentioned this in a lot in my posts,
> because I've seen how most people I've encountered here are filled with
> fear. This includes all the fearful people who accuse others of not
> being "courageous", because they are using their REAL names, and the
> others are not. Which also makes me laugh a LOT. Believing that using
> your REAL name means you're courageous, only means you're stupid, not
> "courageous". You are after all, behind a computer monitor. EVERYONE is
> courageous behind a computer rmonitor. Constantly concocting dumb
> paranoid conspiracy theories about people makes you fearful (or is
> derivative of your fear). So does rejecting tweak after tweak not
> because its "silly", but really, because you're too fearful of looking
> ridiculous. Even to yourself in the privacy of your own home. If the
> tweaks appear conventional to you fearful lot, some of you might try
> them.
>
> If for example, I said that you can improve your sound by installing a
> divider on the tweeeters, I'm sure some fish would bite. It doesn't
> provoke a strong fear reaction from you herd mentalists, because it
> appears to follow the conventional Newtonian laws you already know (ie.
> diffraction). It doesn't play with your feelings of security by
> changing what you think you know about audio, and it doesn't cover any
> "mumbo jumbo theories of quantum mechanics" that you know nothing
> about, and which scares the hell out of you so badly, you don't even
> WANT to know about it. But I did warn you that I was an advanced
> audiophile (and if you felt insulted by that, good. It also proves
> you're fearful, by way of insecurity). Which simply means I know that
> sound perception in audio doesn't stop at Newtonian laws. My system
> knows it too you could say, because I took a $300 dollar system and
> added $5,000 dollars to its sound, with about $8 of materials available
> from a dollar store, in the space of a few weeks. Its the nattiest
> placebo effect on earth. If placebos were THIS effective, there
> wouldn't be a need to produce medication!
>
>
> THE TRUE NATURE OF PROOF AND PLACEBO:
>
> Not that I'm saying that to "prove" anything to anybody, since
> "proving things" was never my goal, and neither was "being believed".
> Objectivists", always think you have to "prove" your claims about
> audio. Uh, I don't think so. That's a pointless excercise in futility,
> and it has nothing to do with reality about audio. A reality that very
> few self-professed experts know anything about. Why? Because they don't
> try "unproven" techniques, for one thing. Only YOU can prove ANYTHING
> to yourself. Do CD players sound alike, or do good turntables sound
> better than CD players? Forget asking anyone, only YOU can know, by
> listening. What about amps, cables, wire, spikes, isolation feet, green
> markers, cd demagnitizers, shakti stones, gsic chips, clever little
> clocks, pinhole paper with aspirin, holy water... I give you people the
> same answer to *all* of it. Only YOU can prove whether these things are
> audible, whether they matter. And only a herd-mentality fool would look
> to someone else to answer the question about whether a tweak or audio
> component is audible. (individual models of components is a different
> matter... you cant always get your hands on the component).
>
> The objectivists, ie. Arny Krueger, tell us that even if they do hear
> differences, they still don't hear differences. Why? Because ABX tests
> say there's no differences. Oh okay then. Lets chuck our BRAINS OUT
> THE FREAKING WINDOW and pray to the ABX comparator. Then there's the
> other fear-based arguments I've heard ad nauseum from the perpetually
> insecure: It's a placebo!
>
> Right. A greater bunch of thinkers there never were.... Got a
> newsflash, my little sheep friends:"EVERYTHING is a placebo".
> EVERYTHING is autosuggestion. EVERYTHING is an expectation effect. In
> audio, PLACEBOS DON'T EXIST. Or they ALWAYS EXIST. Same difference.
> What that means for the perpetually slow in the head, is that it
> doesn't matter if a perception comes from a placebo or is actually
> there. What matters is that YOU perceive it. If you perceive it to be
> there, IT'S THERE. In the case of my seriously tweaked up stereo,
> almost entirely done using quantum principles (such as the pinhole
> paper etc) that according to EVERYONE here should have no effect,
> others perceived the changes as well. So I'm fully aware that it
> doesn't matter what I say, people will always believe these tweaks are
> placebos. Again, even if everyone that listens to my stereo is also
> suffering from a mass delusion, as are the millions who hear
> differences among cd layers, its still a moot point. In audio, there's
> no difference between a placebo and a non placebo perception. Here's
> another newflash: Stereo itself is an illusion! Home theatre systems
> even more so. You WANT placebos in this case. If you heave a heart
> condition and your life depends on pills, then you DON'T want a
> placebo! Get it now? (The sheep go: Baaaaa! Baaaaa! and all run around
> mad. Does not compute! Does not compute! You're lying to us! You're a
> bad evil horrible horrible man!)
>
>
> HYSTERICAL PARANOIA GETS A NEW NAME: "REC.AUDIO.OPINION"
>
> >From the beginning to the end, people tried to vilify me in an
> increasing (and amusing) variety of ways. For most of the time, until
> he got tired of it and his impotent voice drowned out by the derision
> of others, Westface was killing himself to try to make a liar out of
> me. Making up false inconsistencies over the most trivial matters, and
> then fabricating them into alleged "LIES!!". Everything from insisting
> I was lying about who's tweaks they were, to who's system it was that I
> had tweaked. Then he said I lied about having posted the details of
> said system, after the idiot forgot what he had previously read about
> the components that make up my system. Several others called me a
> "crook", including the goofball who calls himself, appropriately:
> "Goofball". He called me a "shill", and fabricated the idea that I had
> a business selling the tweaks, and then insisted that I should
> "confess" about my secret shill agenda, with the fervence of a Nazi
> interrogator. Robert, and numerous others also implied that I had
> business ties to some tweak organization, and that this was the purpose
> of my presence.
>
> I was also called a "horrible, evil man", and threatened at virtual
> gunpoint, as well as with litigation. I've had malicious web sites
> created in my name, I've had my IP address analyzed and
> over-analyzed, I've had Goofballs scouring the web for background
> info on me, and so on. Naturally, after being attacked so many times, I
> started attacking back on occasion, and it was a pleasure to do so.
> You've proven that insults and mockery is the only language you boys
> understand. But trust me... whoever I attacked well deserved it
> (except in one case with Robert, whom I apologized to, because we'd
> both been the victim of a forger). And whoever I attacked got off easy.
> Be grateful for that. I didn't feel a need to be as harsh with you as
> most of you were with me, because you're not any kind of a threat to
> me, as I am to most of you.
>
> Many people attacked me for attacking my attackers. Typical of the
> hypocrites and the hypocrisy that proliferates on RAO like lies and
> false bravado do, not a single person singled out anyone for their
> abuse toward me. George would say I'm whining about this, but I'm
> simply stating a fact. A fact about how everyone here is a hypocrite.
> Except me. Because unlike everyone else, ie. Krueger, I never pretended
> that I wasn't attacking my attackers. Paul Packer said my tweaks were
> like dropping a ton of bricks on the group, and that was his excuse as
> to why I was attacked the way I was. "What did you expect?", he
> complained. Well what was I supposed to do? Introduce it gradually and
> subtlety into the conversation thusly?:
>
> SHP: "Yeah well, I was constructing some DIY Cat 5 cables according to
> the Venhaus recipe, and after placing a glass of holy water next to my
> CD player to improve the sound, I rolled out exactly 4.7m and found
> that this was the ideal length for speaker cabling and IC wiring. "
>
> Maybe that would have prevented any ridicule or mockery of my findings,
> do ya think? Right. Props to Jenn, the only RAO regular who did not
> attack me. Says something about the maturity of women. Although she is
> counted on the "sheep" list as having called my tweaks silly, without
> trying any of them. After all, how can sheep breed if there are no
> females in the flock? I noted that Arnold Kruger actually attacked Jenn
> for not denouncing my tweaks in a manner as bold as he would have
> liked. This was a new height in risible ignorance: One blind ignorant
> bigot condemning another for not demonstrating their ignorance as much
> as was felt they should. ("What, you think yer better'n us, Miss
> Prissy? Too high falutin' ta ridicule the tweak freak? Ridicule the
> man already, and show that you're one of us, goldarnit!").
>
> Then, what appears to be the contender to the King of The Imbeciles Of
> RAO, "Goofball", a bitter, failed ex-tweak merchant, thought he was
> going to "get me" by doing background research on my IP address and the
> name in my email address. After finding the phrase on a web site, the
> person some considered to be the "genius of RAO", had to find a picture
> to match the phrase, so he could come back and tell his friends on RAO
> that he conquered the "Soundhaspriority" dragon, and exposed him. And
> what does the big bad dragon look like? Well, apparently... I look like
> a quaint little old English lady, trying to get the car started on a
> blustery winter day. Goofball, the goof, quite seriously insisted I
> was her. When people weren't taking him seriously enough, he stomped
> his feet and clenched his fists and yelled at the top of his voice,
> that I was the old lady outside her car - and that people should stop
> doubting what he says (because he's a "genius"....). The only fool
> that really did take him seriously, and who still thinks I'm the old
> lady shovelling snow behind her car (even though the photo doesn't
> actually show her doing that....), was Middius. Who based on that
> picture, called me "Shovels". How quaint!
>
> And what kind of a person IS "Shovels"? Welll.... according to some,
> I'm poorly educated. According to others, highly educated. Some say I'm
> an idiot, others, I'm highly intelligent. Some say I don't know the
> first thing about audio, others called me an audio guru. Some insisted
> I was a troll, others? Well I'm sincere, of course. Some of the same
> people who said I was a troll, also said I was sincere. Some people
> called me a "newbie", others said I've been here for years. Frankly, if
> I based my identity on what RAO people said about me, I'd be one very
> confused tweako freako.
>
> The rampant paranoia that people here suffer from makes the group look
> like a wacked out meeting club for conspirational theorists. If I
> listed all the examples, it'd be twice as long as this post. You can
> start with Walt's sig which states: "There is no Belt conspiracy"
> (he's implying there is, of course, and that I'm it). Go to
> Robert's allegations that I'm a shill, among those of others. Then
> there are the endless conspiracy theories about all the different
> people that RAO participants claimed I was. Which included, from what I
> recall: "Lionel", "Jamie", "Mrs. Belt", "André", "Benchimol", "Bob",
> and both Wallace and Gromit. All this insane and idiotic conjecture
> from the inhabitants of RAO reminds me of a line in a song from Dire
> Straits, which goes:
>
> "Two men say they're Jesus. One of them must be wrong....".
>
>
> "Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is
> opinion." - Democritus of Abdera
>
> "PROOF? THIS IS RAO, BUDDY! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' "PROOF"!":
>
> That's not entirely true, of course. The objectivists are constantly
> making calls for "proof", and so are the subjectivists, particularly
> when it's a personal issue. But one thing that both groups of fools
> could unanimously decide on, was that I'm insane and so are my silly
> tweak ideas. Proof not necessary. In fact, all the other things that
> were said about me that weren't true, such as who I was or what my
> motivations were, were considered "fact". Proof not necessary, because
> it's already been established as a "fact". And how, pray tell, does a
> "fact" get established on RAO? Well, far as I can tell, there are two
> rules involved in the process:
>
> Rule no. 1: If one person on RAO with a "credible" reputation says it,
> "it's a fact!". George Middius knows this rule well, and used it when
> he lied to the group about what was communicated in private email from
> me to him, hoping to establish his lies as "fact", merely by
> credibility of reputation.
>
> Rule no. 2: If you can find a second person with a "credible
> reputation" to confirm what the first presumptuous idiot said, then
> it's a "inalienable fact set in stone".
>
> For example, I have a Rotel 820A. Except I don't *know* what a "Rotel
> 820A" is. I know what an 855 is (a cd player I had in the 80's). But
> because one RAO member, Goofball again, stated I had a Rotel 820A,
> voila! I have a Rotel 820A now. Paul Packer was seen commenting with
> George about my Rotel 820A. Did anyone come and ask ME if I had a Rotel
> 820A? Don't be silly! Not even necessary. It was already established
> as an inalienable fact on RAO according to Rule no. 2. And you wonder
> why I call you people "mindless sheep"? You believe what you're told,
> because your minds are on autopilot. So if you're told something that
> isn't true, such as "audio begins and ends with Newtonian laws", you
> don't think to question it, even if someone comes along and says
> "maybe it isn't true, why not take 30 seconds to question it?". Not
> questioning things leaves you on safe, familiar ground. Questioning
> things pulls you into riskier, scarier territory. And it requires
> effort on your part.
>
> This is why "real facts" on RAO, are about as rare as hen's teeth.
> Here are two "real" facts, that I've been able to conclude:
>
> FACT #1. ALL TWEAKS HAVE BEEN SWEEPINGLY DISMISSED BY ALL MEMBERS OF
> THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
>
> FACT #2. NOT A SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN PRODUCED TO
> JUSTIFY DENOUNCING THE "TWEAK" TECHNIQUES.
>
> I put those facts in caps not because I'm shouting, but to stress the
> most important conclusion of my study on this group. It allows me to
> use terms like "bigots', "ignorant pigs", "mindless sheep",
> "presumptuous fools", "insecure dweebs", and so on, rightfully and
> without prejudice. I get to do that, because: see FACT #2.
>
>
> When I asked on what basis they were dismissing the tweaks without
> trying them, the attitude most people have had is one of "you are
> insane to even ask that". For example, when I asked Steve Sullivan, who
> claims to be a trained scientist, what was the reason that he didn't
> try the tweaks, he said it was because I was insane (along with 99% of
> the group, none of whom have ever provided evidence of this claim).
> Then when I asked what I thought was a fair question, which is what
> proof did he have that I was insane, he did not reply except to say he
> would use that in his "sig". (Which since has been: "Excuse me? What
> proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority)
>
> A *trained scientist* mind you. Someone who might actually have a
> chance at understanding the concepts behind the tweaks, or at the very
> least, *should* as both an audiophile and trained scientist, have
> enough scientific curiousity to see if there is anything behind the
> tweaks, since they only take seconds to apply. When he discovered that
> the tweaks may have a scientific grounding, and that this may fall
> within the laws of quantum mechanics, did RAO's self-professed
> "trained scientist" apply a scientist's thirst for knowledge to try
> to discover more about the theories? Was his scientific curiousity
> aroused to the degree where he at least asked what area of quantum
> mechanics the tweaks might be based on, in order to see if there was
> any validity to the theories? Well no, actually not. As to educating
> himself about all the theories behind the tweaks, he didn't do jack
> squat. Instead, here was his response:
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Steve Sullivan writes:
>
> "When someone selling something starts babbling about quantum
> mechanics, consumers should hide their wallets and reach for their
> guns. Steve Sullivan."
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> In other words, a mighty sweeping dismissal of products, ideas and
> theories he has NO clue about, offering NO evidence whatsoever to
> support his sweeping dismissal. If this guy's a scientist, and I
> don't believe it for a minute, he's the first "redneck scientist"
> I've come up against. This is what they call "truth by assertion".
> It's this "sliding scale reality" that I underline, is a consistent
> element that connects almost all of you. It exemplifies your prejudice,
> bias, and complete isolation from the truth and reality.
>
>
> "Consciousness is a being, the nature of which is to be conscious of
> the nothingness of its being." - Jean-Paul Sartre
>
> "OH, SO YOU DON'T WANT TO TRY SHOVING YOUR WET HANDS INTO A BARE
> MAINS SOCKET TO IMPROVE THE SOUND? THEN YOU'RE A HYPOCRITE, AND
> WE'VE JUST PROVED YOU'RE NO LESS IGNORANT THAN WE ARE!"
>
> ...I got crap like that a lot. I mean, a LOT. It is a way that
> ignorant, small-minded children have of trying to reassure themselves
> that they really aren't the ignorant bigots they're being made out
> to be. Rather, that they are reasonable, intelligent thinking beings,
> that are simply being "careful" about what they will and won't try.
> For example....
>
> Q. The sheep nay: "Well if we try *your* "crazy" ideas, even though we
> have not provided any proof to justify calling them "crazy", then why
> not try every "crazy" idea that anyone can think of?! Like licking a
> live mains wire to get the electrons flowing better! Or putting
> cucumber slices under our speakers! Huh? Why, not, huh? You're CRAZY,
> if you think we're that stupid!"
>
> A. The guru responds: You *are* that stupid, but unfortunately and
> contrary to popular opinion in the hog farm that is RAO, I'm not in
> the least bit crazy. I have never advocated dangerous tweaks, as
> advocated by Robert (who even tried to get me to advocate a dangerous
> tweak, in order to try to discredit my valid tweaks), Sander, and
> numerous others who thought they were being clever and funny by mocking
> my sincere tweaks with their insincere tweaks. At least I did manage to
> get people talking about "tweaks" (although I don't care much for
> that term...). Before me, I think there was about 3 or 4 messages about
> tweaks in the history of this group. You guys are gonna have a hard
> time forgetting me and the concept of "tweaks", that much I know.
>
> One primary difference between my tweaks and all of those who have
> posted an endless amount of tweak ideas ever since I came on the group,
> is that I actually tried all of the ideas I advocated. They did
> absolutely no harm in any way, and only benefited my system, according
> to my abilities in perceiving sound quality. I wouldn't even advocate
> a tweak that I did not feel was truly a benefit to the sound quality,
> unless I state otherwise. Many so-called audiophiles can't even tell
> what is a benefit to the sound and what isn't, so can't even get
> that much about audio, right. For example... everyone that uses metal
> spikes under their speakers or equipment is actually ruining the sound
> quality. And because they're *not* "advanced audiophiles", because
> they are instead "mindless sheep" who prefer to be told what to think,
> they're not even aware of how they are hindering their sound quality
> with spikes and graphite blocks and squash balls and concrete blocks
> and other things that take you in the opposite direction to good sound.
>
>
> In my very first tweak post, the reason I wrote the faux "ad" that way,
> (advertising FREE tweaks to lure unsuspecting RAO members into my cult,
> where I shake them down for every bit of spare change that they
> have...), was to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were. I
> reasoned that the superficial among you will see it as an "attack" of
> some sort that you have to defend against (ie. scam). The more profound
> thinkers will see through the superficial, and get at the meaningful
> bits, which are the tweaks. And try the tweaks, to see if its
> meaningful for them. So yes, I was having my fun with you little
> sheepies.
>
> Guess what? You ALL failed the test, by a country mile. You're ALL
> superficial thinkers. The closest anyone of you came to overcoming your
> intellectual insecurities, was Mr. Morein. Ironically, since he's
> probably otherwise the most neurotic person on the group. And someone
> who I was sure was a troll due to all the messages I'd read against
> him, but I welcomed him anyway, when he emailed me for information.
> That's what you call being "open minded". Insisting that I perform
> stupid fake tweaks by idiots who are trying to mock me isn't.
>
> I mention the last bit, because as I said, many of you insecure lot
> questioned the very idea of trying tweaks that don't make sense to dumb
> ignorant people. You figure its the -tweaks- that are stupid, silly,
> and ignorant. And not you. But I was surprised to find that some of
> you, nevertheless, actually consider yourselves "open-minded" and not
> part of the herd-mentality! LOL! If only that were true, it wouldn't
> be so funny! Anyway, this creates a conflict, which you resolve by
> trying to argue that if someone tries one of the tweaks I posted, then
> where does one draw the limit?
>
> And so you think you're intelligent and clever by showing me examples,
> in trying to turn the tables on ol' "soundhaspriority". When in fact
> you're just being dumb and predictable again, just as you are when you
> mock and ridicule my tweaks without trying them. The example that
> people like Goofball, Sander deWaal, Dave Weill, George Middius, Deano
> (my imposter!), and so very many others have tried to show me falls
> flat on its face, for several reasons. Here are some of them:
>
> a) "Accusing" me of not being open-minded for not trying the fake
> tweaks, is hypocritical, since all of you who gave me your tweak ideas,
> had not tried any of mine. Which makes you closed-minded, and yet, not
> one of you was ever willing to admit that you are closed-minded. Which
> makes you even more profoundly closed-minded. Ignorant as well, since
> you remain willfully ignorant of your closed-mindedness.
>
> b) Every single one of you who shared your fake tweaks with me were
> being insincere. And stupidly insincere at that. (All of your mocking
> tweaks were unoriginal and mostly variations of the ideas I posted,
> which showed how little imagination that people here have). I note that
> the things in my first tweak that scared people the most, were the
> aspirin and the cat picture. These are the things you couldn't stop
> ridiculing, even though the basis of the tweak is really the pinholed
> paper.
>
> c) None of you in discussing my tweaks with me, ever offered sincere,
> reasonable, practical, intelligent tweaks that you were willing to try
> yourselves. So you don't know that I would have been open with them.
>
> d) Some of the posturing arguments you fools have given me is that I
> can't be sure if your tweaks are fake or not, since they "sound" as
> crazy as mine. Except I am sure, and you would be deceitful to argue
> your point with me, knowing what we both know, about the mocking tweaks
> from my detractors being fake.
>
> e) Another would-be argument is that your closed-mindedness can be
> excused, because the tweaks "sound silly and insane". After all, NO
> ONE, as Goofball informed me, tries tweaks "that sound silly and
> insane". Which he was proven foolish and wrong on, since I'm a living
> example of someone who tries tweaks that sound silly and insane (to
> sheep and ignorant pigs, that is).
>
>
> I read a Stereophile article on the net not too long ago, which if I
> recall talked about tweaks like the green marker, and such. And the
> author had decided which tweaks should and shouldn't be tested,
> according to his standards. Which to my recollection, stated something
> like: "If it doesn't cost anything and takes little of your time, why
> not try it?".
>
> Indeed, I agree with that one. Why not? , is the question I posed to
> RAO. And the group responded, in unison: "Because were closed-minded
> ignorant Flatlander fools". And I noted that response in my little
> black book, for future reference. And so my experiment is done. Which
> means yes, I wont be posting any more insane tweaks! Too bad! You all
> seem to have adopted the very mistaken attitude that you're doing me a
> favour by trying my tweaks. You're not. You'd be doing yourself a
> favour, but I'm a lunatic, so what do I know? <shrug> Whether you do or
> don't want to, does not affect my life one bit. It does however, affect
> my study of you. But that's merely a statistical detail you needn't
> worry about.
>
> "Sound has priority" is, as I tried to explain to the King Of Fools
> (Goofball), a self-contained tweak. What is known as a "morphic
> message". Thousands of people use the phrase to improve their sound
> perception, which is what makes it powerful. Similar in concept to the
> life energy force known as "Chi" and other names. But of course, that
> too can be safely dismissed as "new age nonsense" by the brilliant,
> educated, enlightened minds on RAO (such as it was by Dave Weil).
>
>
> "Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which
> differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are
> even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein
>
>
> ABOUT SOMA (The "Society of Open Minded Audiophiles", previously "The
> Secret Society of Advanced Audiophiles" (SSAA)):
>
> When I said in my first message the tweaks were for "advanced
> audiophiles", that was true, and I meant it (even though I knew it
> would probably be responded to by everyone but). My colleagues in the
> non-conventional audio community estimate that were 15-20 years ahead
> of the rest of the audio community and the audio industry. That
> basically means we have to sit patiently and wait 15-20 years for the
> rest of you mindless lemmings to catch up with laws of non-Newtonian
> science, as they apply to sensory perception. Theoretically, this means
> that George Middius should be expecting his first retirement benefits
> from RAO, by the time he realizes the tweaks work. But I don't buy
> that. I believe that estimate is far too conservative. I estimate that
> we are at least 40-50 years ahead of the industry. It's been at least
> 25 years that the research on these advanced audio concepts exists.
> Some people are so far behind present knowledge, they're still
> arguing about whether CABLES and wire, CABLES mind you, have an audible
> effect. Good lord, the same arguments about whether amps or cd players
> sound any different, or whether LP is better than CD, that you can read
> about ten or fifteen years ago, are still being argued today on
> newsgroups like RAO. Trying to explain patiently to the backward audio
> nuts that are so far behind, they still don't get it that amps,
> cables, cd players, turntables, spikes, etc. all have audible effects,
> is a pointless waste of time. Small wonder, these are people that
> believe the more speakers, sound processors, metal and watts you can
> have, the better life is.
>
> Obviously for some, audio progress advances VERY slowly, if at all. For
> others, ie. me, not quickly enough. One thing I believe for certain,
> is that in 15-20 years, you ignorant bigots will still be mocking and
> ridiculing advanced audio concepts without having ever experimented
> with them in depth as I have. Continuing to wallow in your ignorance
> for the length of your small lives, mocking everything you don't
> understand, before ever trying to understand it.
>
> One member here, who when I said my time was limited, asked me to stay
> longer. Adding that I'd make a good dinner guest. And during my stay, I
> would have been glad to pull up a chair, and explain some of the
> findings, the research and the principles of non-conventional audio
> with all of you. So that we may learn from each other, and share
> diverse interests within the hobby that we all have an interest in, to
> one extent or other. For even if people disagree, they can disagree
> with respect, in a way that does not invalidate the other's
> intelligence and experience. I even tried to dot hat by trying to get
> people into a conversation about what problem they had with the ideas.
> But unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your prejudices), no
> one made a place for me to sit. On this group of audio bigots, I'm
> basically the "black guy" at a dinner table populated by klu klux klan
> members. On top of that, I'm trying to explain to you klan members a
> bit about my black culture, and how important tolerance of other races
> (ideas) is. Whilst you're loading up your shotguns, clubs, and assorted
> "red neck party gear" you all carry with you "to work" (which by the
> sheer volume of posting from many of you, your employer appears to be
> RAO. I hope it provides health care benefits, because sitting in front
> of a computer screen every day for years on end and dishing out
> derision is bound to have a toll on one's mental health) . So I
> agree, I do make a good dinner guest but... I don't think I want to
> have dinner with "you people" (as I've been referred to by some RAO
> members).
>
> Besides, I'm no longer on holiday, which means I'll be returning to
> work soon and will have less time to play with you children anyway. I
> know some of you are really despondent about that (and I can hear
> George trying to muffle sobs and whimpers, because he was deathly bored
> before I came along, and I gave him purpose in life during my entire
> presence). Nevertheless. I'm sure that you people are eager beaver to
> add your usual insulting, mocking and condescending replies, so I'll
> get out of the way and let you get it out of your primitive minded
> systems. Please don't be shy letting me know how you feel about me,
> as you were in the past. I can take it. I'm made of stronger stuff
> than you are.
>
> Go on and let your scream out!
>
> -soundhaspriority
>
> p.s. For bottom-liners: No matter your politics, you are all part of a
> sheep status quo. Me? I laugh in the face of orthodoxy! And so I laugh
> in your faces: Ha. Ha. (pause.....). Ha.
>
> Ha.
>
> Thank you for an enlightening experience, and a wonderful time.
>
>
> "It is a courageous man (or woman) who attempts to introduce a new
> concept." - May Belt
Just more of the same wasted electrons from you.
Trying to save face with an elaborate belittlement.
Walt
April 3rd 06, 02:47 PM
wrote:
> Ha! Made ya look! ...
....
> And so I laugh
> in your faces: Ha. Ha. (pause.....). Ha.
>
> Ha.
Um, sorry. Must have dozed off. Did I miss anything?
//Walt
Sylvan Morein, DDS wrote:
> In article . com,
> " > wrote:
> > You've proven that insults and mockery is the only language you boys
> > understand. But trust me... whoever I attacked well deserved it
> > (except in one case with Robert, whom I apologized to, because we'd
> > both been the victim of a forger). And whoever I attacked got off easy.
>
> The fact that *YOU* were so easily suckered and trolled disproves the
> entirety of your wordy missive, despite your attempt to bury this key and
> important fact. You were in fact one of the victims of "Tweak the Goons on
> RAO". Get a mirror, view a goon!
>
> You were proven to be just as big an ignorant pig as Robert, Middius, Weil,
> NYOB, and the rest of the lameass jerks here. There is only one king here,
> that's the only REAL truth. And you ain't it, sport.
Your entire lack of any evidence to support your aimless rant here
makes for a very compelling argument. In some other fantasty world,
perhaps.
>
> "The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may
> deride it, but in the end, there it is."
>
Yes, that one was my favourite quote. Don't you think it was simply
written for this group of bigots?
> You were bested. By the best. Get over it.
Hi Brian. So how's the diet going? Do you think they will sell
Twinkies in Hell? What am I saying.... you're already there now,
aren't you?
Fella as usual, scrapped the intelligent, cogent response, for this
one:
> For someone who exists in a state of constant masturbation you sure can
> write a lot. Sheeesh.
Calm down, Fella/Pega, calm down.... I'm sorry that you humiliated
yourself by trying one of the tweaks, but as I told you, I'm not
responsible for that, you are.
Why are you so fixated on masturbation? Are you addicted to it as much
as you are to Usenet? You know what? Better I don't know. You can
keep that under your hat, then. In response, I will simply say that for
someone who proved to be too dumb to follow a very simple technique
(namely the L-shape tweak, which you did with a green marker when I
specifically said it had to be black!), I'm surprised that you know
how to write. Period. Do you realize that you're one of the dumbest
people on this newsgroup, and if you even understood a word of what I
wrote, how sad a fact that is for you?
> Do you really expect anyone to read all this crap?
I keep trying to explain this to you and your idiot friends, but you
seem to have some cognitive impairment which makes it very difficult
for you to understand this basic concept: No! As I said many times
before, I do not come into this with -any- such expectations or
anticipations whatsoever. Whatever anyone does is fine with me. Whether
you try my tweaks or don't, does not matter a whit to me. Trust me,
my family won't go hungry from people not trying free tweaks. Whether
you read my posts or not, I don't give a tinker's damn. Whether you
attack and ridicule me, or flatter me and buy me lunch, it's all
good. As Allah, Buddha, Jesus and God are my witness, I've never
written a single post in my lifetime on Usenet, for anyone else but
myself. Now how dumb do you want that dumbed down to, until a cretin
like you can finally understand it?
But if you want me to answer your question in a more personal way, than
in your case, I can honestly say "No, I did not in my wildest dreams
think you would read all of it". You showed you did not have the
attention span to even read three lines of me describing how to perform
the L-shape technique, and so you botched it up and blamed your stupid
incompetence on me. If you did have the intelligence or attention span
to actually read my post, you had have already had the answer to your
question. Because I already mentioned in the post, that I did not
expect mindless sheep like you, who complain about the length of my
posts, to read anything beyond 2 lines. You are the very living example
of how our society is getting dumber and dumber, due to many
sociotechnological factors like the internet, tv, video games, and
other mass media influences, as well as other factors. People don't
read books as much any more, because complete idiots like you who can
barely form two coherent sentences, can't sit still long enough to do
so.
Finally, it was "the truth", not "crap". Crap is every worthless
opinion you've every shared on the group. Proof of that, is in your
sweeping dismissal. If it was "crap", you'd be able to construct a
logical argument that shows evidence to support your false claim.
GeoSynch wrote:
> SHP swoons into a swan song:
>
> > I'm not trying to attack anyone, as you have all attacked me...
>
> In the immortal words (paraphrased perhaps) of Basil Fawlty:
> "Do I detect the smell of burning martyr?"
I don't remember that line, but I will say that FT is one of my
favourite all time tv series. However it doesn't really apply, as a
martyr is one who suffers for the sake of principle, and I can hardly
say I "suffered" here. It was fun, not painful.
>
> But look at the bright side, old boy: you avoided the snake-oil
> salesman plight of being tarred-and-feathered before being run
> out of town.
>
I believe Shovels had his tar and feathers ready for me long ago. And
he certainly did put out enough effort to "try" to run me out of town,
don't you think? At one point, I thought the little guy was going to
die of a heart attack, he was writhing in so much agony by my mere
presence on the group. Out of all the people who perceived me as a
threat (and still do), he was the hardest case to be sure. You now see
so many references to "Shovels" on the group, you'd think you were
reading rec.graveyard.caretakers. However, I don't belong to the easy
category of "snake oil salesman". I'd have to be selling something
first, and I never did.
>
> GeoSynch
Robert Morein
April 3rd 06, 04:47 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
>> Dear Mr. Graham:
>
>> It is my inclination that the text of your rather lengthy post is
>> untrue.
>
> "Inclination"? Is that like "I'm picking up some vibes I think, that
> sound like "untrue" vibes....". It doesn't even sound like you read
> the post in the first place. Everything I wrote in it is absolutely
> true.
>
Dear Mr. Graham:
IThe dialectical system you use for your own privately held beliefs is,
of course, up to you. The legitimate purpose of debate in a public forum is
to convince others of the truthfulness of one's statements. Dialectics is a
combination of fact and deduction, but your affirmation of veracity is not
factually supported. It is not convincing to observers external to yourself.
Regards,
Robert Morein
wrote:
> { many misdirected electrons released from bondage } >
followed by
> Finally, it was "the truth"
You really do have some ego issues.
You'll really have to shout louder with your head up your arse.
It's apparent you're in a minimum security lock-up
or residential care facility.
Pull another bottle out the fridge, and turn up that walkman.
Prove me wrong, lowprioritysound.
Sander deWaal
April 3rd 06, 06:41 PM
said:
<lotsa snips>
>FACT #1. ALL TWEAKS HAVE BEEN SWEEPINGLY DISMISSED BY ALL MEMBERS OF
>THIS NEWSGROUP.
All but one, but I can imagine one grey sheep between the herd doesn't
stick out ;-)
>A. The guru responds: You *are* that stupid, but unfortunately and
>contrary to popular opinion in the hog farm that is RAO, I'm not in
>the least bit crazy. I have never advocated dangerous tweaks, as
>advocated by Robert (who even tried to get me to advocate a dangerous
>tweak, in order to try to discredit my valid tweaks), Sander, and
>numerous others who thought they were being clever and funny by mocking
>my sincere tweaks with their insincere tweaks. At least I did manage to
>get people talking about "tweaks" (although I don't care much for
>that term...). Before me, I think there was about 3 or 4 messages about
>tweaks in the history of this group. You guys are gonna have a hard
>time forgetting me and the concept of "tweaks", that much I know.
Just because I noticed my name here:
Indeed I mocked and imitated your tweaks at first, but I apologized
for that to you and the group later.
That was a sincere apology, but apparently, in your zeal to have the
last word, you either deliberately* forgot that, or decided that I
wasn't being sincere.
* deliberately, because you seem to remember every tiny detail that
others said in their posts.
Oh well. Being a sheep, I can put comfort out of the fact that our
shepherd SHP is watching over us ;-)
>Thank you for an enlightening experience, and a wonderful time.
Likewise.
I'll be trying your first tweak tonight, because you managed to make
me think about some things.
Thanks for that.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
> >FACT #1. ALL TWEAKS HAVE BEEN SWEEPINGLY DISMISSED BY ALL MEMBERS OF
> >THIS NEWSGROUP.
>
>
> All but one, but I can imagine one grey sheep between the herd doesn't
> stick out ;-)
No, you did stick out, by showing to me later that despite your initial
"herd mentality" knee-jerk reaction to me (refusing to take me
seriously no matter what I said), you did show capacity for reason,
logic, and independent thought. You bet that sticks out on THIS group,
because you're only one of two people here who I can actually claim
did! And I respected the fact that unlike most here, you're not an
audiophile "poser". Someone who hangs around an audio group, but
who's interest is more on showing how massively inflated their ego by
engaging in endless flame wars with people, sometimes peripherally
related to audio (a very good example of an audiophile poser, would be
Shovels (aka Middius)). I respect the fact that you're an active
audiophile, you actually do work on audio equipment, trying to improve
sound. That already means to me, that you probably know what produces
good sound better than many of your colleagues do. But you should trust
your ears more!
> Just because I noticed my name here:
> Indeed I mocked and imitated your tweaks at first, but I apologized
> for that to you and the group later.
> That was a sincere apology, but apparently, in your zeal to have the
> last word, you either deliberately* forgot that, or decided that I
> wasn't being sincere.
No, I believed you were sincere. I'm sorry but, I couldn't be as
dramatic as I wanted to, had I said ". "ALL TWEAKS HAVE BEEN SWEEPINGLY
DISMISSED BY ALL MEMBERS OF THIS NEWSGROUP!!!!" (except sander). Truth
be told, you kind of ruined things for me, by not sweepingly dismissing
all of my tweaks for all time. My goal was to show that NOBODY would
ever accept the idea that any of these ideas could have an effect on
our perception of sound, and ALL would be hostile to the ideas, even
though they never tried them and knew nothing about them. I knew I'd
have no trouble with the stupid arrogant Yanks, in achieving that. But
I didn't figure on a Netherlander squeezing through my stats. Darn
you progressive Netherlanders! <shakes fist at Sander>
But let's not get too ahead of ourselvers here.... You're probably
the most open minded person on the group, but there's still the fact
that you mocked and ridiculed my tweaks before you had any idea that
they might be based on valid scientific concepts, and as far as I know,
you never actually tried any of them. You gave me some excuse about how
you had to wait until you moved, or all your speakers were in alignment
with the phases of the moon or something ridiculous like that, which
doesn't explain how you don't have 30 seconds to try one of the
tweaks, now does it. That all went into the notebook, you know.
> * deliberately, because you seem to remember every tiny detail that
> others said in their posts.
Because... it all went into my notebook. ;-)
> Oh well. Being a sheep, I can put comfort out of the fact that our
> shepherd SHP is watching over us ;-)
Soon I won't be, so you'll have to persevere on your own I'm
afraid... But I think I left behind enough that if anyone here or
elsewhere does ever evolve beyond the level of a mindless sheep...
they'll probably have a lot of fun with the little magic tricks I
left behind. That was in fact, my one true goal here. Not to leave
tweaks for the "good people of RAO" necessarily, because I never
believed anyone here was evolved enough to see beyond their ignorance,
prejudice and bigotry. The whole point of the excercise for me, was to
leave them for posterity. (That's why I always made sure I had the
word "tweaks" in the title). In other words, I wanted to leave them for
people like me. People who were already evolved beyond the mindless
sheep phase, and might be looking for Beltist ideas to try out. Because
that's where I was, when I started out. I had to scour through
obscure 25 year old articles from British publications and here and
there on the net, in order to find many of them. That wasn't easy. So
I wanted to do a favour for my future advanced audiophile colleagues,
to "give back" some of what I got from the alternative audiophile
community, by making it easy. Google keeps such impeccable archives,
don't they. So all someone has to do is enter "Belt" and "tweaks" and
voila. My name and my posts will show up like white on rice within
seconds. (Do you realize that before me these last few weeks, no one in
the history of Usenet ever posted Beltist techniques?). As for all the
rest... all the debates, and the arguments, and the mockery, and the
ridicule, and the posturing, and the bull**** well.... that was just
for fun! What else is RAO good for, anyway?
> Likewise.
> I'll be trying your first tweak tonight, because you managed to make
> me think about some things.
Really?! Like what? If you're sincere, then I suggest you peek into
the "L-shape for Dummies!" thread and print out the L-shapes and apply
them exactly as directed, and get down to some serious listening! I
think out of the ones that I shared with people, it's probably one of
the easiest and most effective, and a good choice for "beginners of
advanced audio concepts".
>
> Thanks for that.
Hey, my first thanks! Good thing this didn't come BEFORE my final
report on the project! It would have ruined EVERYTHING!
George M. Middius
April 3rd 06, 09:55 PM
Shovels/Jamie is still weeping and wailing.
> to me
> to me
> me
> to me
> I believed you
> I'm sorry
> as dramatic as I wanted to
> my tweaks
> the stupid arrogant Yanks
> you mocked and ridiculed my tweaks
> You gave me some excuse
> excercise for me
> I wanted
> I was
> I started
> I had to
> I wanted
> I got
> My name and my posts
Is it time for you to leave yet, Shovie? Seems like even you are getting
tired of your shtick.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Goofball_star_dot_etal
April 3rd 06, 10:20 PM
On 2 Apr 2006 19:39:55 -0700, wrote:
>For example, I have a Rotel 820A. Except I don't *know* what a "Rotel
>820A" is.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=32e18ef521e9c67d1c6462cdeea768a0&threadid=27217
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/search.php?s=32e18ef521e9c67d1c6462cdeea768a0&action=showresults&searchid=389019
Someone else, perhaps.. Just some other poor soul (with a PWB web site
"mirror" etc). Quit trolling me, I already signed on the dotted line
for being a "stupid ****", note.
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/e2d49bb26772a39c?hl=en
>I know what an 855 is (a cd player I had in the 80's). But
>because one RAO member, Goofball again, stated I had a Rotel 820A,
>voila! I have a Rotel 820A now. Paul Packer was seen commenting with
>George about my Rotel 820A. Did anyone come and ask ME if I had a Rotel
>820A? Don't be silly! Not even necessary. It was already established
>as an inalienable fact on RAO according to Rule no. 2. And you wonder
>why I call you people "mindless sheep"? You believe what you're told,
>because your minds are on autopilot. So if you're told something that
>isn't true, such as "audio begins and ends with Newtonian laws", you
>don't think to question it, even if someone comes along and says
>"maybe it isn't true, why not take 30 seconds to question it?". Not
>questioning things leaves you on safe, familiar ground. Questioning
>things pulls you into riskier, scarier territory. And it requires
>effort on your part.
>
Walt
April 3rd 06, 10:24 PM
wrote:
> Do you realize that before me these last few weeks, no one in
> the history of Usenet ever posted Beltist techniques?
Wrong comma pieface.
The Peter Belt joke/hoax/cult/scam has been around for almost twenty years.
http://makeashorterlink.com/?C3BD216EC
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q36D256EC
//Walt
Walt continues his obsession into proving what an obsessive he is:
> wrote:
>
> > Do you realize that before me these last few weeks, no one in
> > the history of Usenet ever posted Beltist techniques?
>
> Wrong comma pieface.
Damn you're an idiot. Why do I keep forgetting that about you? Must
be because you don't make an impression on anyone. You're right, I
really should have given a bigger slice of the "idiot pie" in my thesis
on RAO. Take your eyeballs off of the screen, and you'll see that I
said "Beltist techniques", not "any mention of Peter Belt or his
products". In other words, I'm referring to free tweaks, goon.
>
> The Peter Belt joke/hoax/cult/scam has been around for almost twenty years.
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?C3BD216EC
>
> http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q36D256EC
>
> //Walt
paul packer
April 4th 06, 01:40 AM
On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:47:52 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:
>Dear Mr. Graham:
> IThe dialectical system you use for your own privately held beliefs is,
>of course, up to you. The legitimate purpose of debate in a public forum is
>to convince others of the truthfulness of one's statements. Dialectics is a
>combination of fact and deduction, but your affirmation of veracity is not
>factually supported. It is not convincing to observers external to yourself.
>
>Regards,
>Robert Morein
True. We observers external to Mr. Sound have been quite clear about
that.
(chuckle)
paul packer
April 4th 06, 01:44 AM
On 3 Apr 2006 08:33:20 -0700, wrote:
>Do you realize that you're one of the dumbest
>people on this newsgroup
And if you'd read a word of what he wrote about the rest of us, you'd
know just how dumb that is!
paul packer
April 4th 06, 01:50 AM
On 3 Apr 2006 13:30:40 -0700, wrote:
>> Oh well. Being a sheep, I can put comfort out of the fact that our
>> shepherd SHP is watching over us ;-)
>
>Soon I won't be, so you'll have to persevere on your own I'm
>afraid...
Where are you going? To Jerusalem to be crucified? :-)
paul packer
April 4th 06, 01:58 AM
On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:31 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
> wrote:
>>I know what an 855 is (a cd player I had in the 80's). But
>>because one RAO member, Goofball again, stated I had a Rotel 820A,
>>voila! I have a Rotel 820A now. Paul Packer was seen commenting with
>>George about my Rotel 820A. Did anyone come and ask ME if I had a Rotel
>>820A? Don't be silly!
I believe I said, "He has a Rotel 820A? That's good budget stuff." I
seem to recall that I wanted to make an audio-related comment at the
time, just to drop in something on-topic. I don't care if you have an
820A or not; it's still good budget stuff.
Robert Morein
April 4th 06, 02:15 AM
"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:47:52 -0400, "Robert Morein"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Dear Mr. Graham:
>> IThe dialectical system you use for your own privately held beliefs
>> is,
>>of course, up to you. The legitimate purpose of debate in a public forum
>>is
>>to convince others of the truthfulness of one's statements. Dialectics is
>>a
>>combination of fact and deduction, but your affirmation of veracity is not
>>factually supported. It is not convincing to observers external to
>>yourself.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Robert Morein
>
>
> True. We observers external to Mr. Sound have been quite clear about
> that.
>
> (chuckle)
Dear Mr. Packer:
This is no laughing matter.
Regards,
Robert Morein
P.S. A smirk would be more like it.
George M. Middius
April 4th 06, 02:39 AM
paul packer said to Shovels:
> Where are you going? To Jerusalem to be crucified? :-)
No, his supervised leave from the hospital is almost up. Back he goes very
soon to the loony bin.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
George M. Middius
April 4th 06, 02:40 AM
paul packer said:
> I believe I said, "He has a Rotel 820A? That's good budget stuff." I
> seem to recall that I wanted to make an audio-related comment at the
> time, just to drop in something on-topic. I don't care if you have an
> 820A or not; it's still good budget stuff.
Would your opinion change if I said I have a Rotel power amp?
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Robert Morein wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> IThe dialectical system you use for your own privately held beliefs is,
> of course, up to you. The legitimate purpose of debate in a public forum is
> to convince others of the truthfulness of one's statements. Dialectics is a
> combination of fact and deduction, but your affirmation of veracity is not
> factually supported.
On the whole, I agree with what you say here. Except for the part about
my veracity not being factually supported. But then if you want to
argue semantics, we can dissect the definition of a "fact" until
kingdom come. I've already given the definition of a "fact" on RAO,
which you and others here adhere to: deduction by hearsay becomes a
"fact". I'm sorry, but there's nothing clever or truthful about
that. You're just convincing yourself that lies are true. But you do
this all the time, I know that.
Just to give a quick example, from listening experience, I know that
every one of my tweaks produces a change. As an engineer, well most
I've debated believe that many things in audio are imperceptible. Be
it wires, cables, amps, cd players, spikes, tweak products (ie. shakti
stones, green pens, etc). All of this stuff is audible, and very
significantly so. Again, from my actual experience (I emphasize because
most engineers or otherwise techies who have an opinion on this, never
did much actual proper listening tests on what they dismiss). So you
(or other engineers, say), believe the "lie" that my tweaks could not
possibly have an effect on sound, or the "truth" that amps or wires
have no significant effect (with the usual exclusions). So you end up
building up a belief system.
Every single person here has one, and that's why they're here. The
problem is, every one thinks that the components of their belief system
are always based on the truth. When in fact, many of them are lies,
untruths. So how do you know what is true, if so? I say, theory is not
enough. You HAVE to have practical listening experience. But everyone
has a different degree of listening skill, so that doesn't prove
anything either. In other words, what it comes down to is, truth is
relative and personal. You can not apply the kinds of truths we're
talking about, across the board and say "this is what is true!". You
can only say "this is what is true for me".
But the massive egos here don't like saying that; they're not
humble enough to do so. IMO, they want to show off how "intelligent"
they are and feel good about themselves by demonstrating their
"knowledge" of audio and such. So what should be "this is what is true
for me" becomes "this is TRUE, and if you don't like it, you're an
idiot!".
> It is not convincing to observers external to yourself.
Obviously, I was never very worried about proving things to others ,
any more than I was if they decided to use the information I provided
or not. As I've said many times, and as I repeat above, you really
have to prove things for yourself. I tried to encourage people to break
the cycle of being mindless sheep, and challenge themselves. So far,
nobody here is intelligent, imaginative or courageous enough to
challenge themselves, by disregarding what they are told about what is
true. If I shoved evidence in people's faces and said "HEY! THIS IS
TRUE!!", then I'm not really allowing them to discover things for
themselves, am I? Instead, I'm simply continuing the cycle of
"brainwashing" (Western doctrines), which is what led them to the sad
state they are presently in (mindless sheep), that of being skeptical
of everything they weren't told to believe.
Another reason I don't like to drag theories into the conversation is
because I know very well that no one here is a genial, sincere debater.
Including you, as I discovered with your "Don't cream!" thread. That
**** is very offensive to me, in my "debating mode". I do not believe
a true debate is equated with a hostile battle. The idea of a debate
for me, is for two people to try to come to a mutual consensus about
what is true, using valid evidence in their arguments (not in the
literal sense of course), and hopefully, progress in their mutual
knowledge about a given subject. Once you begin hostilities and
defensiveness as you started with me, then you can forget about
respecting the ideal of "truth". Then, it's only a war, and neither
side will ever have a hope in hell of convincing the other party of
anything, with all that posturing going on. Therefore, a waste of time
for both is ensured. That's why I invited you to continue the debate
in email, but you just wanted to engage in an ideological battle, to
satisfy your ego. Not because you were genuinely curious to know more
about what I had been talking bout. Look at poor, old, sad,
usenet-addicted Arny Krueger. He's been at this for 10 years, do you
think he's ever convinced someone who held an opposite POV of
anything but the idea that he's a deceitful belligerent troll?
But you know very well Robert, that if you want to learn about what is
behind these tweaks, the information is out there, readily available,
and you can research into it yourself, as I did. If someone had tried
the tweaks, found changes, and was curious to know how it works,
that's different, and I would probably be more than glad to explain
the details of the theoretical foundation behind it.
But with no one willing to even test the theories they insist I share
with them (so they can find further things to ignorantly ridicule), why
should I bother?
paul packer wrote:
> On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:31 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
> > wrote:
>
>
> >>I know what an 855 is (a cd player I had in the 80's). But
> >>because one RAO member, Goofball again, stated I had a Rotel 820A,
> >>voila! I have a Rotel 820A now. Paul Packer was seen commenting with
> >>George about my Rotel 820A. Did anyone come and ask ME if I had a Rotel
> >>820A? Don't be silly!
>
> I believe I said, "He has a Rotel 820A? That's good budget stuff."
You added, "He doesn't need tweaks with stuff like that".
> I
> seem to recall that I wanted to make an audio-related comment at the
> time, just to drop in something on-topic. I don't care if you have an
> 820A or not; it's still good budget stuff.
I don't care whether you care whether I have a Rotel 820A or not.
You're not bright enough to have gotten the point, are you? I made an
example of your remarks to prove the contention true, that RAO
participants merely regurgitate information they are spoon fed, and
accept it as the truth, without thinking. Yours was only one example I
picked out of the crowd, but I could well have used 36 different
examples of you people playing fast and loose with the truth, without
the slightest regard for respecting the quality of truth. Nor are you
or your friends on RAO evolved enough to even know how to avoid
disregarding the truth, if you wanted to. Which shows just how little
consideration you have for truth in the world.
I am really sorry if I am holding you and your friends to the harsh
light of truth and that angers and offends you, but believe me, this
kick in the seat of your pants is for your own good. You're not going
to enlighten yourself trading barbs every day here for the next ten
years, are you.
wrote:
> I've already given the definition of a "fact" on RAO,
> I know that.
> So you end up
> building up a belief system.
> So how do you know what is true, if so? I say,
> "this is what is true for me".
> "this is TRUE, and if you don't like it, you're an
> idiot!".
> Obviously, I was never very worried about proving things to others ,
> any more than I was if they decided to use the information I provided
> or not.
> If I shoved evidence in people's faces and said "HEY! THIS IS
> TRUE I'm simply continuing the cycle of "brainwashing"
> Another reason I don't like to drag theories into the conversation is
> because I know to try to come to a mutual consensus about
> what is true. Once you begin hostilities and
> defensiveness as you started with me, then it's only a war
> with all that posturing going on.
> But with no one willing to even test the theories they insist I share
> with them (so they can find further things to ignorantly ridicule), why
> should I bother?
No one insisted you share any of your offers.
No cries of "Give us your tweaks, your FREE tweaks."
You've made it quite clear why you bother.
You were an asshole from the beginning, just out
to make your internet name for yourself.
This example of reading between the words is clearly
defining what you think you are.
This thread you started was just another attempt at putting
your same old crap out there.
Complete with the superior attitude.
Since your deaf to those that disbelieve you,
who find your "tweaks", garbage and potentially harmful
to perfectly working equipment, and consider you to
be totally incompetent.
My opinion that you're a complete and total asshole
with no priority to sound and total priority to your ego,
shouldn't matter to you one bit.
Robert Morein
April 4th 06, 04:05 AM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>
>
>> IThe dialectical system you use for your own privately held beliefs is,
>> of course, up to you. The legitimate purpose of debate in a public forum
>> is
>> to convince others of the truthfulness of one's statements. Dialectics is
>> a
>> combination of fact and deduction, but your affirmation of veracity is
>> not
>> factually supported.
>
> On the whole, I agree with what you say here. Except for the part about
> my veracity not being factually supported. But then if you want to
> argue semantics, we can dissect the definition of a "fact" until
> kingdom come. I've already given the definition of a "fact" on RAO,
> which you and others here adhere to: deduction by hearsay becomes a
> "fact".
Dear Mr. Graham:
Rec.audio.opinion is not a fair place. You, I, and everybody else have
received a good portion of abuse. But you seem to have learned too fast, and
adopted with too much enthusiasm the gambits employed here. In doing so, you
squandered the virginality of your appearance, which, with patience, might
have resulted in some of what you want, if not from the most vociferous
among us, then among those unknown who do not announce themselves. But as
they say, the "isms", communism and fascism, resemble each other, even as
they claim to be opposites. In a like manner, your demeanor resembles that
of Arny Krueger, even though the substances of your beliefs are not
compatible.
Unfortunately, one of the dirty debating trades of this group is to
proclaim a "fact", and back it up with false logic. Arny does this; you do
this, and so do a whole host of other people. Some do it for entertainment,
and some do it out of deep psychological need.
What I say now, I say as a matter of personal opinion, not fact:
1. With the exception of the "electret cream", I have no opinion as to
whether the tweaks you advocate work.
2. I do not know whether you believe in the tweaks yourself.
3. With respect to the "cream", and your relationship with PWB Electronics,
there is the "appearance of impropriety." This does not mean that it has
been factually established that there is an impropriety. However, anyone who
is engaged in journalistic, or alleged independent reporting is aware that
the appearance of impropriety renders a person subject to public censure
4. I consider that it is possible that you and PWB Enterprises share a
common economic interest in the promotion of their products.
With respect to r.a.o., there are some things you should be aware of. For
better or worse, this group serves as an outlet for people in the relatively
harmless release of aggressive impulses via extremely vigorous, frequently
unfair verbal jousting. Once I wished it wasn't so. I attempted to change
it, and was torn to pieces. Subsequently, I accepted that the main purpose
of this group is entertainment, or distraction, of a certain sort. To
understand what it is, please visualize a burning red pit, surrounded by
devilish characters holding pitchforks -- the r.a.o. regulars.. At
intervals, one of the regulars is thrown or pushed into the pit. As he tries
to climb out, his hands are stomped upon, and he is impaled by forks.
Somehow he makes it out, and someone else is thrown in. This is
rec.audio.opinion; it is a place where people come, either to watch a fight,
or pick one.
This has been going since about 1993. Every day, the regulars assemble for
the malediction, the torture, and the rebirth. Sometimes the regulars get
bored, and then, like a miracle, someone falls from the sky into their
burning pit; they cackle as their pitchforks redden in the coals of
conflict, and again when they thrust into your tender flesh. They never
tire; they never tire, until they die. Mere mockery has no effect on the
spirits of the regulars. They digest it to make even more and better bile.
You have to ask yourself whether you want to join this coven. You cannot
"win"; you cannot even endure if your are mortal; the only way you can
survive is to let the jinn take over your human spirit.
Regards,
Robert Morein
wrote:
> paul packer wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 03 Apr 2006 22:20:31 +0100, Goofball_star_dot_etal
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >>I know what an 855 is (a cd player I had in the 80's). But
> > >>because one RAO member, Goofball again, stated I had a Rotel 820A,
> > >>voila! I have a Rotel 820A now. Paul Packer was seen commenting with
> > >>George about my Rotel 820A. Did anyone come and ask ME if I had a Rotel
> > >>820A? Don't be silly!
> >
> > I believe I said, "He has a Rotel 820A? That's good budget stuff."
>
> You added, "He doesn't need tweaks with stuff like that".
>
> > I
> > seem to recall that I wanted to make an audio-related comment at the
> > time, just to drop in something on-topic. I don't care if you have an
> > 820A or not; it's still good budget stuff.
>
> I don't care whether you care whether I have a Rotel 820A or not.
> You're not bright enough to have gotten the point, are you? I made an
> example of your remarks to prove the contention true, that RAO
> participants merely regurgitate information they are spoon fed, and
> accept it as the truth, without thinking. Yours was only one example I
> picked out of the crowd, but I could well have used 36 different
> examples of you people playing fast and loose with the truth, without
> the slightest regard for respecting the quality of truth. Nor are you
> or your friends on RAO evolved enough to even know how to avoid
> disregarding the truth, if you wanted to. Which shows just how little
> consideration you have for truth in the world.
>
> I am really sorry if I am holding you and your friends to the harsh
> light of truth and that angers and offends you, but believe me, this
> kick in the seat of your pants is for your own good. You're not going
> to enlighten yourself trading barbs every day here for the next ten
> years, are you.
--------------------------------------------------------------
SHP says:
" I made an
example of your remarks to prove the contention true, that RAO
participants merely regurgitate information they are spoon fed, and
accept it as the truth, without thinking. "
Plenty of other fields where information is "merely
regurgitated".
Take one with which I'm familiar;
You get pneumonia. Would you like me to get openminded and
search the colllected works
of the original thinkers: acupuncturists, naturopaths, Christian
Scientists,
Total Environmental Allergy devotees, psychosomaticists, feedback
instructors, neighbourhood store herbalists, traditional Chinese
medicine
practitioners, down with the carbs "nutrtionists", holisticians and so
on
and on or...
reach for the pad and prescribe an antibiotic?
Lifetime is not long enough to try every fantasy of every
crank.
In medicine it is simple. If after five years a new treatment is still
controversial or marginal it was not worth much to begin with. Tweaks
that work in audio become accepted practice given a few years.
So much for Mr. and Mrs. Belt and their disciple SPH. And for that
matter
so much for ABX for component comparison.
Ludovic Mirabel .
George M. Middius
April 4th 06, 05:00 AM
Ludo said:
> so much for ABX for component comparison.
Fie on thee, vile unbeliever! To the salons with you! Begone!
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Fella
April 4th 06, 08:46 AM
Robert Morein wrote:
> 4. I consider that it is possible that you and PWB Enterprises share a
> common economic interest in the promotion of their products.
>
Considering their "products" and the spokesperson they chose to
represent them in the usenet, that's one sad "enterprise" indeed.
GeoSynch
April 4th 06, 10:03 AM
SHP wrote:
>> > I'm not trying to attack anyone, as you have all attacked me...
>> In the immortal words (paraphrased perhaps) of Basil Fawlty:
>> "Do I detect the smell of burning martyr?"
> I don't remember that line, but I will say that FT is one of my
> favourite all time tv series. However it doesn't really apply, as a
> martyr is one who suffers for the sake of principle, and I can hardly
> say I "suffered" here. It was fun, not painful.
It was probably the funniest sitcom I'd ever seen, although it was
rather short-lived at only 12 episodes.
The "burning martyr" line is from the 'Wedding Anniverary' episode.
Sybil was furious Basil had forgotten their anniversary again.
He hadn't ... not after what happened to him the previous year when
he had forgotten it. He was just pretending he had forgotten, to
let her have "a bit of a steam."
>> But look at the bright side, old boy: you avoided the snake-oil
>> salesman plight of being tarred-and-feathered before being run
>> out of town.
> I believe Shovels had his tar and feathers ready for me long ago. And
> he certainly did put out enough effort to "try" to run me out of town,
> don't you think? At one point, I thought the little guy was going to
> die of a heart attack, he was writhing in so much agony by my mere
> presence on the group. Out of all the people who perceived me as a
> threat (and still do), he was the hardest case to be sure. You now see
> so many references to "Shovels" on the group, you'd think you were
> reading rec.graveyard.caretakers. However, I don't belong to the easy
> category of "snake oil salesman". I'd have to be selling something
> first, and I never did.
'lil Georgie considers rao is his own personal little sandbox and
*everything* in it has to be *his* way or else he'll caterwaul and
pout and then proceed to soil his diapers until he finally gets his way.
This may explain his caca infatuation. Proof of that is the cute little
moniker (so he thinks) he has adorned you with. Actually, Georgie girl
has an irrational fear of women, so he's become a limp-wristed pouf.
GeoSynch
paul packer
April 4th 06, 11:35 AM
George M. Middius wrote:
> paul packer said:
>
> > I believe I said, "He has a Rotel 820A? That's good budget stuff." I
> > seem to recall that I wanted to make an audio-related comment at the
> > time, just to drop in something on-topic. I don't care if you have an
> > 820A or not; it's still good budget stuff.
>
> Would your opinion change if I said I have a Rotel power amp?
I'd be extremely humble that you'd deigned to divulge what hitherto has
been an audio secret: the components in your system. Now, what about
the pre-amp?
paul packer
April 4th 06, 11:43 AM
wrote:
> I am really sorry if I am holding you and your friends to the harsh
> light of truth and that angers and offends you, but believe me, this
> kick in the seat of your pants is for your own good. You're not going
> to enlighten yourself trading barbs every day here for the next ten
> years, are you.
So sorry, Mr, Sound. I thought you knew by now that none of your
inchoate ramblings anger or offend me. As for enlightening myself, I
seek enlightenment elsewhere. Here I'm only seeking R & R.
George M. Middius
April 4th 06, 12:59 PM
paul packer said:
> > Would your opinion change if I said I have a Rotel power amp?
> I'd be extremely humble that you'd deigned to divulge what hitherto has
> been an audio secret: the components in your system. Now, what about
> the pre-amp?
No more of that for you. I don't want you to make a habit of using naughty
info. My system is not, unfortunately, highly 'borg-proofed: no turntable
or vinyl, no tube gear, and ordinary cables and wires. It's possible that
if a 'borg clanked into hearing range and started the "sounds the same ...
sounds the same ... sounds the same...." mantras, my system might pick up
some aBxism nanites. So for that reason -- i.e. the insufficient security
-- I prefer to keep the details hidden.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Arny Krueger
April 4th 06, 01:12 PM
"paul packer" > wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E Coyote-style
>>> *super genius*.
>>
>>> Does this mean he'll be ****ing off now? If so,
>>> can he take the rest of you subjectivist nutbars with
>>> him?
>>
>> No such luck.
> Gee, we thought you liked us, Arnie.
Thanks for admitting that you're a subjectivist nutbar, Paul.
>I'm crushed.
Someone is crushing mental dwarves with pliers again?
Clyde Slick
April 4th 06, 03:14 PM
"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> paul packer said:
>
>> > Would your opinion change if I said I have a Rotel power amp?
>
>> I'd be extremely humble that you'd deigned to divulge what hitherto has
>> been an audio secret: the components in your system. Now, what about
>> the pre-amp?
>
> No more of that for you. I don't want you to make a habit of using naughty
> info. My system is not, unfortunately, highly 'borg-proofed: no turntable
> or vinyl, no tube gear, and ordinary cables and wires. It's possible that
> if a 'borg clanked into hearing range and started the "sounds the same ...
> sounds the same ... sounds the same...." mantras, my system might pick up
> some aBxism nanites. So for that reason -- i.e. the insufficient security
> -- I prefer to keep the details hidden.
>
Since it all sounds the same, we really don't need to know.
--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access
wrote:
> wrote:
> > paul packer wrote:
> >
> SHP says:
> " I made an
> example of your remarks to prove the contention true, that RAO
> participants merely regurgitate information they are spoon fed, and
> accept it as the truth, without thinking. "
> Plenty of other fields where information is "merely
> regurgitated".
> Take one with which I'm familiar;
> You get pneumonia. Would you like me to get openminded and
> search the colllected works
> of the original thinkers: acupuncturists, naturopaths, Christian
> Scientists,
> Total Environmental Allergy devotees, psychosomaticists, feedback
> instructors, neighbourhood store herbalists, traditional Chinese
> medicine
> practitioners, down with the carbs "nutrtionists", holisticians and so
> on
> and on or...
> reach for the pad and prescribe an antibiotic?
Who says the antibiotic is always the best thing for you? Your body can
develop resistance to antibiotics. It makes it more difficult to purge
infections from the body, and it heightens the risk of acquiring
infections in a hospital. Some diseases are more difficult to treat
than they were years ago, because of the body developing resistance to
antibiotics. Among those alternatives you mentioned, you *may* find a
more suitable treatment that isn't as invasive as antibiotics. Be a
mindless sheep, don't "think" about alternatives, and you'll never
know about that, will you? Feel good about yourself that your
antibiotic option is absolutely the best thing you can do, but consider
the fact that you're just fooling yourself with falsehoods. By the
way, thanks for helping me further prove my contention.
> Lifetime is not long enough to try every fantasy of every
> crank.
It doesn't take a "lifetime" to try any of the tweaks I posted, so
what exactly IS your point??
> In medicine it is simple. If after five years a new treatment is still
> controversial or marginal it was not worth much to begin with.
That's simply your personal opinion, not fact. Different doctors do
sometimes differ on what treatments are marginal and which are not.
Simply because it's in the nature of people to have different
opinions.
Tweaks
> that work in audio become accepted practice given a few years.
> So much for Mr. and Mrs. Belt and their disciple SPH. And for that
> matter so much for ABX for component comparison.
You don't know what you're talking about. How long ago has it been
since amplifiers were introduced? What about cables, wires, cd players,
spikes... ? ALL of these things are still being argued as to whether
they have any significant audible effect whatsoever. By the audio
Luddites right here on this group (ie. Steven Sullivan, Arny Krueger,
Stewart Pinkerton,Mike McKelvy, etc.).
You're simply confusing "tweaks that work" with "tweaks that gain
popular acceptance". Don't worry, it's a common mistake of
non-thinking sheep. What you're saying here is "If your tweaks
worked, all the other sheep would be using them by now". But you're
ignorant of all the socio-political elements behind the reasons why the
treatments are not popularly accepted. Mindless sheep (ie.: you) look
to others to decide if something is of merit, worth trying, etc. If
they see that other sheep are accepting these products or techniques,
then they will be more likely to consider doing so themselves. When
they don't, and the premise of say, sticking pieces of aspirin on
their speakers makes no sense to their non-thinking sheep minds, they
don't go any further than their in-built prejudices, to peek behind
the curtain. Only those who are truly independent, intelligent
thinkers, or the very curious, will disregard what the sheep say, and
make up their own independent minds on that. As for the Belt products,
they did find quite some acceptance at the beginning, at least in the
UK. But then the hifi publications started getting worrisome feedback
from advertisers, threatened by the presence of the products in
magazines. The problem stems from the fact that if you can achieve the
equivalent of a component upgrade by using an advanced treatment, then
you needn't upgrade your components. Hifi manufacturers are in the
business of selling components, hifi magazines exist because they rely
on advertising from electronics manufacturers. With the products all
but shunned from the magazines, they remain on the fringes of audio,
and wherever they resurface, mindless sheep categorize them as
unworthy, without ever trying them for themselves. Ignorant skepticism
rules, and wears big Nazi-skinhead style jackboots, and stomps all over
the delicate petals of "truth". And so it remains.
As for component comparison by ABX, well that has another explanation.
It was -never- accepted by the populace. It simply isn't a practical
means of selecting audio components or accessories. Even if it could be
made practical, by its very nature, ABX decimates all but the largest
differences in components (such as speakers), as part of the testing
process. As such, it never gained widespread acceptance in the consumer
market, except by a very small fringe element of gearheads. I've
tested Krueger's ABX software by the way, and even the software is
useless for comparing digital audio software.
"You can not go against nature, because if you do go against nature,
that's part of nature too." - Love & Rockets
Steven Sullivan
April 4th 06, 04:32 PM
paul packer > wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
> > "Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
> >
> >
> > > Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E Coyote-style
> > > *super genius*.
> >
> > > Does this mean he'll be ****ing off now? If so,
> > > can he take the rest of you subjectivist nutbars with
> > > him?
> >
> > No such luck.
> Gee, we thought you liked us, Arnie. I'm crushed.
Do you consider yourself a subjectivist *nutbar*, Paul?
I thought you were just their cheerleader.
George M. Middius
April 4th 06, 04:37 PM
Shovels is deep into his religious fervor.
> Who says the antibiotic is always the best thing for you? Your body can
> develop resistance to antibiotics. It makes it more difficult to purge
> infections from the body, and it heightens the risk of acquiring
> infections in a hospital.
I wonder if there's a syndrome that amounts to inverting Occam's razor for
every decision one makes. This consuming fear of unlikely events might be
an extension of hypochondria. The eschewing of sensible approaches to
tweaking a stereo in favor of bizarre and nonsensical routines that a
child would laugh at might be part of the same syndrome.
I'm going with my theory that Shovels is a schizophrenic who's
periodically let out of the asylum for some away time. He uses that time
to do online what he used to do on street corners -- namely, shout
ridiculous nonsense at passersby. Last time he visited Usenet was in the
latter months of 2002. One can only imagine how badly he must have behaved
since then so that he had to wait three and half years for another visit
to the outside world.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Fella, showing what mindless sheep do, conjectured:
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
>
> > 4. I consider that it is possible that you and PWB Enterprises share a
> > common economic interest in the promotion of their products.
> >
>
> Considering their "products" and the spokesperson they chose to
> represent them in the usenet, that's one sad "enterprise" indeed.
You see what I mean about engaging in blind hearsay and conjecture as
you've done,Robert? Ignorant dimwits like Fella become even more
ignorant, spreading a ripple effect of falsehoods, until lies look
better than the truth to you people. If you want to believe in your
lies do so, but don't pretend it's anything but.
George M. Middius
April 4th 06, 06:11 PM
Rev. Shovels delivers his fire-and-brimstone sermon of the day.
> > Considering their "products" and the spokesperson they chose to
> > represent them in the usenet, that's one sad "enterprise" indeed.
> You see what I mean about engaging in blind hearsay and conjecture as
> you've done,Robert?
Bobo is not involved at the moment. Do try to keep up, Shovie.
> Ignorant dimwits like Fella become even more
> ignorant, spreading a ripple effect of falsehoods, until lies look
> better than the truth to you people. If you want to believe in your
> lies do so, but don't pretend it's anything but.
Do you recognize yourself, Shovels? "Belief in things not seen" describes
your mindset perfectly.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
wrote:
> wrote:
> Obviously, I was never very worried about proving things to others ,
> > any more than I was if they decided to use the information I provided
> > or not.
> > If I shoved evidence in people's faces and said "HEY! THIS IS
> > TRUE I'm simply continuing the cycle of "brainwashing"
> > Another reason I don't like to drag theories into the conversation is
> > because I know to try to come to a mutual consensus about
> > what is true. Once you begin hostilities and
> > defensiveness as you started with me, then it's only a war
> > with all that posturing going on.
> > But with no one willing to even test the theories they insist I share
> > with them (so they can find further things to ignorantly ridicule), why
> > should I bother?
>
You're an angry man, Westfafce. A very angry person. You were that
way from the very first post you wrote to me, and you still are. With
such an attitude hostile to good sound, I imagine your stereo must
sound pure unadulterated **** warmed over. I gave you free tweaks. So
why so hostile? You should be enjoying a greatly improved stereo by now
(I mean if you had anything but candy floss between your ears). Wait,
do you even HAVE a stereo? I never heard you talk about it. I don't
usually respond to your trolls, because you've proven to be just such
a belligerent imbecile, you're not worth bothering with. But in case
anyone is as confused about me as you are, I'm humouring you this
time.
> No one insisted you share any of your offers.
> No cries of "Give us your tweaks, your FREE tweaks."
Listen carefully, blithering idiot: no one insisted you read my posts.
Did they? You seem oblivious to that fact no matter how many times I
explain it to you. I specifically asked closed-minded objectivists like
you to -not- participate in my threads, from my very first post.
Furthermore, I never forced anyone to try the tweaks, so did you have a
point? I didn't think so. I perfectly respect your right to have ****
warmed over for a stereo, and not to want to improve it for free. I
respect your right to be an ignorant, racist bigot as you are, since on
Usenet, you're free to do so. Although I don't respect you. You
don't deserve an ounce of respect from anyone.
> You've made it quite clear why you bother.
Yes, to help people improve their audio systems for FREE. That's so
rare around this political battlefield, that I'm the only person in
the history of the newsgroup who posted such tweaks to help people. But
obviously, you didn't come here to educate yourself about audio from
your betters, did you? You just came to attack everyone who differs
with your ignorant, groundless, bigoted opinions.
> You were an asshole from the beginning, just out
> to make your internet name for yourself.
Profanities and vitriol, and a complete lack of proof when asked to
support your false assertions. Obviously, this is all you objectivists
are capable of.
> This example of reading between the words is clearly
> defining what you think you are.
You're not able to even read the words properly, let alone "between
the words". Which explains why you're always wrong. Whether about
audio or me.
> This thread you started was just another attempt at putting
> your same old crap out there.
You mean the same old *truth*. I noticed that everyone who said it was
"crap" or otherwise denied what was written about them, have shown
absolutely no evidence that proves me wrong. Just like with the tweaks,
fancy that. You're obviously not smart enough to refute them, and yet
you arrogantly dismiss them, with venom, even. That makes you an
ignorant bigot, and me calling you a mindless bigot in my post is
supported by the evidence you've given us. Sorry if you have a
problem with admitting the truth, but that is the truth. Deal with it,
ignorant asshole.
> Complete with the superior attitude.
That's only because I am superior, in the ways I defined in my post;
which include a superior knowledge of audio wrt what produces good
sound and what doesn't. I don't have any need to feel "superior",
I'm just pointing out a simple fact. You obviously have a problem
admitting that people are superior to you, which means you have a
superiority complex. I'm not responsible for all your insecurities,
Westface, ( or whatever your real name is, you netstalking troll.)
> Since your deaf to those that disbelieve you,
> who find your "tweaks", garbage
This is one of the most particularly stupid things you've said in the
last 2 months. It is obviously those who disbelieve me that are "deaf".
You'd have to be twenty different kinds of dumb to tell someone
"you're deaf to those who find your tweaks garbage" when none of them
have ever properly tried my tweaks! I think the logic of this statement
says all we need to know about you, Westface.
>and potentially harmful
> to perfectly working equipment,
I invited several people to allow me to prove that their argument here
was absolutely false by showing how perfectly working my equipment was
with my tweaks. None of you chicken****s ever came forward to accept
it, so once again, you're talking out of your arse, Westface.
> and consider you to
> be totally incompetent.
Lots of people consider lots of things about me. So far, no one's
even tried to prove any of it is true, let alone, succeeded. I however,
have. For example, I proved Dave Weil was totally incompetent in my
thread "Dave Weil On Turntables, Culture & Education".
Bottom line: You can spew as much ridiculous bull**** as you want
Westface. Until you can back up a single word with incontrovertible
proof, you're just a worthless freak spouting out insane bull****.
Nothing you ever say means anything.
> My opinion that you're a complete and total asshole
> with no priority to sound and total priority to your ego,
> shouldn't matter to you one bit.
That's your opinion (and don't worry, you still have a "perfect
record" of wrong opinions about me), and yet you continue to stalk me
and write nasty responses to me, while I for the most part, have
ignored you? This shows that it is YOU that has the "total priority to
your ego", not me. I think out of all the assholes here, you're the
biggest. That's really saying something, if you have any idea of how
big Brian McCarty's ass is. For me, sound has priority. O.k.
Robert Morein wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Robert Morein wrote:
> >> > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >
> Rec.audio.opinion is not a fair place. You, I, and everybody else have
> received a good portion of abuse.
Speak for yourself. I don't feel "abused" by childish taunts,
mockery, ridicule by drooling, slack-jawed ankle-biters with views on
the world from their backwoods trailer camp. I would have to respect
those who would try to abuse me in order to feel abused. And if you
remember a long time ago, I told you in email that I have zero respect
for most people here. So lets say I received "attacks" from people, for
trying to help them improve their stereo systems for FREE. And although
I was much less harsh with my opponents, I even occasionally returned
some of those attacks. When in Rome....
> But you seem to have learned too fast, and
> adopted with too much enthusiasm the gambits employed here. In doing so, you
> squandered the virginality of your appearance, which, with patience, might
> have resulted in some of what you want, if not from the most vociferous
> among us,
I think you're making a number of presumptions here, but that's
what happens when you accept conjecture as truth. I won't correct you
on the biggest one, because that will open up a whole other can of
worms. As far as "squandering the virginality of my appearance", I
don't see it same as you. I don't know if you read it, but I made
myself pretty clear about my motivations in my report that started this
thread. Which is that I did not really care that much whether people
here were or weren't interested in the tweaks. I was more interested
in seeing if they would be, and the implications of doing or not doing
so, that's all. When you have no concrete expectations, you have no
regrets. While I don't disagree with your assessment, my view is, why
should I spare my precious "patience" on trying to sweet talk people
into trying free techniques that I make no commisision on? This is
absolutely the WRONG attitude to have. I'm the one doing people
favours by putting up the free ideas. That's far more than most
people on this newsgroup has done for anyone in their lives. So AFAIC,
it's up to them to convince themselves to take interest in the
tweaks. I should have done what John Cleese did in Robin Hood. Handing
out free tweaks to the audio peasants.... along with an obligatory
punch in the face (because it's necessary. don't ask why).
> then among those unknown who do not announce themselves.
The tweaks were, as I said, not necessarily for the regulars on this
group. That includes lurkers of course, and AFAIC, they can make up
their own mind. I don't sell things, and I sure as hell don't sell
FREE TWEAKS, Robert. So I don't see the point in going to all that
trouble to convince people of things that are hard to convince them of.
Remember that I said part of my motivation was to challenge people, to
get them to challenge themselves. If the existence of the information
and all the hoopla that was written about the tweaks is not enough to
spark their interest in seeing just who here is bull****ting and who
the really insane party is, then AFAIC, they don't deserve the tweaks
to begin with. To use another Python reference (who started this
anyway?!), if it is the Holy Grail you seek, and you need cross the
bridge to get it, then you don't get to pass unless you nswer the
three questions of the troll first.
>But as
> they say, the "isms", communism and fascism, resemble each other, even as
> they claim to be opposites. In a like manner, your demeanor resembles that
> of Arny Krueger, even though the substances of your beliefs are not
> compatible.
You mean because I engage in realism and he engages in fascism?
>
> Unfortunately, one of the dirty debating trades of this group is to
> proclaim a "fact", and back it up with false logic. Arny does this; you do
> this, and so do a whole host of other people. Some do it for entertainment,
> and some do it out of deep psychological need.
As I told you in my last message, you already know where most of my
tweaks came from, and you can do the research yourself on the theories
behind them. So unlike what Arny does every day, I never backed up
anything with "false logic". The tweaks are the only things you could
be sure that were sincere. There's no fun or challenge in fooling RAO
members just for the sake of fooling them, Robert. That's like taking
candy from a baby. I've shown how easy that is to do with you, and so
many others here. So no, I don't have a deep psychological need to
posit insincere arguments on audio. (Unless I'm playing with Dave
Weil's little head, then yeah, that was just a funtime activity).
> What I say now, I say as a matter of personal opinion, not fact:
> 1. With the exception of the "electret cream", I have no opinion as to
> whether the tweaks you advocate work.
Fine, but I remind you that you don't know how the electret cream
works (theoretically), and you've never tried it (practicality). You
simply made a lot of assumptions about things.
> 2. I do not know whether you believe in the tweaks yourself.
Yes, you do. We've had a lot of conversations about it. I've even
mentioned tweaks to you I decided not to share with the group. If
you're skeptical to that degree, then your faith in skepticism is a
crutch, preventing you from gaining new knowledge. And as well,
you're wrong that I could have sweet talked people had I not returned
their attacks, and just been a doormat for verbal abuse (in the
figurative sense), if YOU remain unconvinced of my beliefs in
alternative audio techniques, after all you've heard of it.
> 3. With respect to the "cream", and your relationship with PWB Electronics,
> there is the "appearance of impropriety." This does not mean that it has
> been factually established that there is an impropriety. However, anyone who
> is engaged in journalistic, or alleged independent reporting is aware that
> the appearance of impropriety renders a person subject to public censure
Hey, let's not kid ourselves, Robert. This is RAO! Remember?
"Ignorant pig farm?", remember? That implies ANY "appearance" renders a
person "subject to public censure". When I first came here, I was
subject to public censure simply for posting my tweaks. I was accused
of being an anal-retentive objectivist and "playing one side off the
other", and other absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theories. I was also
accused of being a "shill", a "crook" and a "horrible evil man" (by
your imposter). This goes back to my criticism of RAO members, allowing
their prejudices to form truths, their ignorant bigotry to get in the
way of understanding the real truth about things. Living proof of that
is that neither you nor anyone else tried my tweaks. In fact, as you
well know, there's no point in me even denying any impropriety here,
even though no one has ever proven such a thing. People just believe
whatever lies they wish to believe, if it sounds credible to them.
> 4. I consider that it is possible that you and PWB Enterprises share a
> common economic interest in the promotion of their products.
>
Just as its possible that you share a common economic interest in Near
speakers, since you advocated them in one of your posts. Anything is
"possible" Robert, that's a meaningless statement. What's
"provable" is quite another matter. See above about how none of your or
anyone's endless conjecture about me was ever proven.
> With respect to r.a.o., there are some things you should be aware of. For
> better or worse, this group serves as an outlet for people in the relatively
> harmless release of aggressive impulses via extremely vigorous, frequently
> unfair verbal jousting.
Trust me, Robert. I'm more aware of that than you are.
> Once I wished it wasn't so. I attempted to change
> it, and was torn to pieces. Subsequently, I accepted that the main purpose
> of this group is entertainment, or distraction, of a certain sort. To
> understand what it is, please visualize a burning red pit, surrounded by
> devilish characters holding pitchforks -- the r.a.o. regulars.. At
> intervals, one of the regulars is thrown or pushed into the pit. As he tries
> to climb out, his hands are stomped upon, and he is impaled by forks.
> Somehow he makes it out, and someone else is thrown in. This is
> rec.audio.opinion; it is a place where people come, either to watch a fight,
> or pick one.
Not a place where people come to learn about audio and engage in
productive discussions about it, is it? Well that's exactly what I
was stating in my report in this thread, after having provided free
audio tweaks to people, and had pitch forks tossed at me for my
efforts.
>
> This has been going since about 1993. Every day, the regulars assemble for
> the malediction, the torture, and the rebirth. Sometimes the regulars get
> bored, and then, like a miracle, someone falls from the sky into their
> burning pit; they cackle as their pitchforks redden in the coals of
> conflict, and again when they thrust into your tender flesh.
This is precisely why I think Shovels is going to miss me something
fierce, despite his constant crying, whining and squawking about when
I'm going to leave. Mark my words Robert, when he continues to
mention my name long after I've left.
They never
> tire; they never tire, until they die. Mere mockery has no effect on the
> spirits of the regulars. They digest it to make even more and better bile.
> You have to ask yourself whether you want to join this coven.
I did. The answer was "yes siree Bob". But again, you have a lot of
mistaken impressions about the whole situation, judging by your words
and lack of real information. I never had any intention of staying, if
that's what you're implying.
> You cannot
> "win"; you cannot even endure if your are mortal; the only way you can
> survive is to let the jinn take over your human spirit.
I never had any intention of "winning" either, if "winning" means
making my arguments accepted or believed. I don't believe in "winning
or losing", only in playing the game. That way, it's always a
satisfying experience.
It all really is much simpler.
Till the 5th. decade of the last century medical treatment went by
the feel in the seat of Herr Professor pants. Any Tom, Dick
and Harry could have, and had a grand theory.
And children continued to die in epidemics of scarlet fever and
diphtheria or be crippled by polio. Their parents had the choice
between typhus, typhoid and lobar pneumonia. All these nasty
things nearly
forgotten by this generation. While the oldsters like myself
with coronary artery disease could take nitroglicerine and pray
till the next myocardial infarction swept them into oblivion instead of
getting a bypass or a little umbrella stuck in to open up the blocked
coronary artery. And life expectancy in the developed countries
got longer with every passing year..
What happened in the 1950s? The Med. Research Ccil.
of U.K. developed double blind testing.. Medical treatment proposals
from then on had to be based on EVIDENCE- ie. experimental research
with rigid guidelines. The new drugs had to be proven to WORK. No
brilliant, original thinkers welcome. Just plodding
sheep.supervised by other plodding sheep.
The original thinkers: Ayurvedistsand such still have their clients
that give them up when really sick..
Except for our Mr. SHP who scorns antibiotics and goes for
"alternatives" when he gets pneumonia. He does not say which
ones he'd use if he was choking from losing half of his oxygen
absorption capacity with raging fever, delirium and 50%
mortality rate.
Yes, bugs develop rexistance etc. Mainly because of
inappropriate use, really abuse, by physicians anxious to please the
demanding customers. If you have a cure for that reveal it. In the
meantime take my word for it: quack therapies are not the answer.
Rather more boring research by boring researchers who have to
submit their work to the boring regulatory bodies for acceptance.
Ludovic Mirabel
---------------------------------------------
wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > wrote:
> > > paul packer wrote:
> > >
>
> > SHP says:
>
> > " I made an
> > example of your remarks to prove the contention true, that RAO
> > participants merely regurgitate information they are spoon fed, and
> > accept it as the truth, without thinking. "
>
> > Plenty of other fields where information is "merely
> > regurgitated".
>
> > Take one with which I'm familiar;
>
> > You get pneumonia. Would you like me to get openminded and
> > search the colllected works
> > of the original thinkers: acupuncturists, naturopaths, Christian
> > Scientists,
> > Total Environmental Allergy devotees, psychosomaticists, feedback
> > instructors, neighbourhood store herbalists, traditional Chinese
> > medicine
> > practitioners, down with the carbs "nutrtionists", holisticians and so
> > on
> > and on or...
> > reach for the pad and prescribe an antibiotic?
>
> Who says the antibiotic is always the best thing for you? Your body can
> develop resistance to antibiotics. It makes it more difficult to purge
> infections from the body, and it heightens the risk of acquiring
> infections in a hospital. Some diseases are more difficult to treat
> than they were years ago, because of the body developing resistance to
> antibiotics. Among those alternatives you mentioned, you *may* find a
> more suitable treatment that isn't as invasive as antibiotics. Be a
> mindless sheep, don't "think" about alternatives, and you'll never
> know about that, will you? Feel good about yourself that your
> antibiotic option is absolutely the best thing you can do, but consider
> the fact that you're just fooling yourself with falsehoods. By the
> way, thanks for helping me further prove my contention.
>
>
> > Lifetime is not long enough to try every fantasy of every
> > crank.
>
> It doesn't take a "lifetime" to try any of the tweaks I posted, so
> what exactly IS your point??
>
> > In medicine it is simple. If after five years a new treatment is still
> > controversial or marginal it was not worth much to begin with.
>
> That's simply your personal opinion, not fact. Different doctors do
> sometimes differ on what treatments are marginal and which are not.
> Simply because it's in the nature of people to have different
> opinions.
>
> Tweaks
> > that work in audio become accepted practice given a few years.
> > So much for Mr. and Mrs. Belt and their disciple SPH. And for that
> > matter so much for ABX for component comparison.
>
> You don't know what you're talking about. How long ago has it been
> since amplifiers were introduced? What about cables, wires, cd players,
> spikes... ? ALL of these things are still being argued as to whether
> they have any significant audible effect whatsoever. By the audio
> Luddites right here on this group (ie. Steven Sullivan, Arny Krueger,
> Stewart Pinkerton,Mike McKelvy, etc.).
>
> You're simply confusing "tweaks that work" with "tweaks that gain
> popular acceptance". Don't worry, it's a common mistake of
> non-thinking sheep. What you're saying here is "If your tweaks
> worked, all the other sheep would be using them by now". But you're
> ignorant of all the socio-political elements behind the reasons why the
> treatments are not popularly accepted. Mindless sheep (ie.: you) look
> to others to decide if something is of merit, worth trying, etc. If
> they see that other sheep are accepting these products or techniques,
> then they will be more likely to consider doing so themselves. When
> they don't, and the premise of say, sticking pieces of aspirin on
> their speakers makes no sense to their non-thinking sheep minds, they
> don't go any further than their in-built prejudices, to peek behind
> the curtain. Only those who are truly independent, intelligent
> thinkers, or the very curious, will disregard what the sheep say, and
> make up their own independent minds on that. As for the Belt products,
> they did find quite some acceptance at the beginning, at least in the
> UK. But then the hifi publications started getting worrisome feedback
> from advertisers, threatened by the presence of the products in
> magazines. The problem stems from the fact that if you can achieve the
> equivalent of a component upgrade by using an advanced treatment, then
> you needn't upgrade your components. Hifi manufacturers are in the
> business of selling components, hifi magazines exist because they rely
> on advertising from electronics manufacturers. With the products all
> but shunned from the magazines, they remain on the fringes of audio,
> and wherever they resurface, mindless sheep categorize them as
> unworthy, without ever trying them for themselves. Ignorant skepticism
> rules, and wears big Nazi-skinhead style jackboots, and stomps all over
> the delicate petals of "truth". And so it remains.
>
> As for component comparison by ABX, well that has another explanation.
> It was -never- accepted by the populace. It simply isn't a practical
> means of selecting audio components or accessories. Even if it could be
> made practical, by its very nature, ABX decimates all but the largest
> differences in components (such as speakers), as part of the testing
> process. As such, it never gained widespread acceptance in the consumer
> market, except by a very small fringe element of gearheads. I've
> tested Krueger's ABX software by the way, and even the software is
> useless for comparing digital audio software.
>
>
> "You can not go against nature, because if you do go against nature,
> that's part of nature too." - Love & Rockets
Walt
April 4th 06, 07:54 PM
wrote: (boring stuff clipped)
> wrote:
>
> You're an angry man, Westfafce. A very angry person.
>
> Listen carefully, blithering idiot: no one insisted you read my posts.
> I'm the only person in
> the history of the newsgroup who posted such tweaks to help people.
> Which explains why you're always wrong. Whether about
> audio or me.
>
> Deal with it, ignorant asshole.
>
> That's only because I am superior, in the ways I defined in my post;
> Bottom line: You can spew as much ridiculous bull**** as you want
> Westface. Until you can back up a single word with incontrovertible
> proof, you're just a worthless freak spouting out insane bull****.
> Nothing you ever say means anything.
>
> This shows that it is YOU that has the "total priority to
> your ego", not me. I think out of all the assholes here, you're the
> biggest.
Nice job, Craig. A mere couple of sentences from you provokes a full
out 5-star gold plated kook rant from Shippy.
//Walt
dave weil
April 4th 06, 08:51 PM
On 4 Apr 2006 11:34:04 -0700, wrote:
>> and consider you to
>> be totally incompetent.
>
>Lots of people consider lots of things about me. So far, no one's
>even tried to prove any of it is true, let alone, succeeded. I however,
>have. For example, I proved Dave Weil was totally incompetent in my
>thread "Dave Weil On Turntables, Culture & Education".
Bad doggie! Bad, bad! <smacking on snout>
To your crate! Now!
postured:
<pages of irrelevant text snipped>
> Except for our Mr. SHP who scorns antibiotics and goes for
> "alternatives" when he gets pneumonia. He does not say which
> ones he'd use if he was choking from losing half of his oxygen
> absorption capacity with raging fever, delirium and 50%
> mortality rate.
Yet another possibly productive debate, stopped dead by a belligerent
asshole. I certainly did not say what you claimed above. So either,
you're not educated enough to have understood what I wrote about
alternative medecines in my last post, or like your friend Powell, you
are deliberately being intellectually dishonest, and playing debating
trade games just to score points. Your behaviour is reprehensible,
either way. You just lost the privilege of serious debate with me.
Don't bother ever trying again. Since you seem to think you already
know everything, remain willfully ignorant, if that is your desire.
dave weil wrote:
> On 4 Apr 2006 11:34:04 -0700, wrote:
>
> >> and consider you to
> >> be totally incompetent.
> >
> >Lots of people consider lots of things about me. So far, no one's
> >even tried to prove any of it is true, let alone, succeeded. I however,
> >have. For example, I proved Dave Weil was totally incompetent in my
> >thread "Dave Weil On Turntables, Culture & Education".
>
> Bad doggie! Bad, bad! <smacking on snout>
>
> To your crate! Now!
I see you missed your carrots, Donkey Boy. There's a crate of them
over in the corner, just for you for being such a good, predictable
troll victim.
GeoSynch wrote:
> SHP wrote:
> The "burning martyr" line is from the 'Wedding Anniverary' episode.
> Sybil was furious Basil had forgotten their anniversary again.
> He hadn't ... not after what happened to him the previous year when
> he had forgotten it. He was just pretending he had forgotten, to
> let her have "a bit of a steam."
I remember that. Polly helped him get a gift for Sybil, but as usual,
things backfired in the end for "Meestah Fawlty!".
> 'lil Georgie considers rao is his own personal little sandbox and
> *everything* in it has to be *his* way or else he'll caterwaul and
> pout and then proceed to soil his diapers until he finally gets his way.
> This may explain his caca infatuation. Proof of that is the cute little
> moniker (so he thinks) he has adorned you with.
It never made any sense for two reasons: One, I wasn't the person in
the photo that Shovels mindlessly thought I was (simply for having been
told that), and two, even the person in the photo was not "Shovels",
since she didn't have a shovel and wasn't shovelling her car. But I
knew that he would not stop calling me that as soon as I told him I was
unhappy with the moniker. And that's what he did. Which is exactly
what I wanted, because every time he writes some meaningless derision
of me, it looks like he's just talking to himself. Not everyone knows
who he's talking to when he talks to "Shovels". Me calling him
"Shovels" is really aiding the confusion. So "Shovels" is basically
stuck in first gear spinning his wheels for every troll he writes...
And it looks like he's writing something like 25 love letters to me a
day. That sure saves a lot of time on my part, knowing that Shovels is
not someone I need bother responding to.
> Actually, Georgie girl
> has an irrational fear of women, so he's become a limp-wristed pouf.
He's "become" a limp-wristed pouf? I thought he was always a
limp-wristed pouf?
>
>
> GeoSynch
Robert Morein
April 4th 06, 09:46 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> postured:
>
> <pages of irrelevant text snipped>
>
>> Except for our Mr. SHP who scorns antibiotics and goes for
>> "alternatives" when he gets pneumonia. He does not say which
>> ones he'd use if he was choking from losing half of his oxygen
>> absorption capacity with raging fever, delirium and 50%
>> mortality rate.
>
> Yet another possibly productive debate, stopped dead by a belligerent
> asshole. I certainly did not say what you claimed above. So either,
> you're not educated enough to have understood what I wrote about
> alternative medecines in my last post, or like your friend Powell, you
> are deliberately being intellectually dishonest, and playing debating
> trade games just to score points. Your behaviour is reprehensible,
> either way. You just lost the privilege of serious debate with me.
> Don't bother ever trying again. Since you seem to think you already
> know everything, remain willfully ignorant, if that is your desire.
>
Dear Mr. Graham:
Ludovic Mirabel is a medical doctor, and researcher, who is perhaps the
most respected member of this group.
Regards,
Robert Morein
Walt
April 4th 06, 10:02 PM
wrote:
> It all really is much simpler.
> Till the 5th. decade of the last century medical treatment went by
> the feel in the seat of Herr Professor pants. Any Tom, Dick
> and Harry could have, and had a grand theory.
> And children continued to die in epidemics of scarlet fever and
> diphtheria or be crippled by polio....
> What happened in the 1950s? The Med. Research Ccil.
> of U.K. developed double blind testing.. Medical treatment proposals
> from then on had to be based on EVIDENCE- ie. experimental research
> with rigid guidelines. The new drugs had to be proven to WORK.
A question, in earnest: Why is double blind testing appropriate for
medecine but not for audio? If I'm putting words into your mouth, I
appologize - please feel free to clarify your position.
IOW, if I propose an improvement to an audio system, shouldn't the
differece be detectable in a DBT before it's accepted as a credible
"therapy"?
//Walt
ScottW
April 4th 06, 11:25 PM
Robert Morein wrote:
> Dear Mr. Graham:
> Ludovic Mirabel is a medical doctor, and researcher, who is perhaps the
> most respected member of this group.
>
> Regards,
> Robert Morein
Wow.... I knew you were out of touch and generally a nutjob... but I
never realized how serious your problems really are, Bob. My
condolences to your family.
BTW, cancel my membership.
ScottW
wrote:
"That's only because I am superior"
wrote:
"That's only because I am superior"
"That's only because I am superior"
"That's only because I am superior"
"That's only because I am superior"
"That's only because I am superior"
Wow!!!!
No Ego problem there
Just planning total audio domination.
My opinion that you're a complete and total asshole
with no priority to sound and total priority to your ego,
shouldn't matter to you one bit.
But it sure did, didn't it?
PS I'm a Luddite, don't own a stereo or any form of technology,
walk to my job, get on the internet using animal skins and stone tools.
got very very angry again, and wrote:
> wrote:
> "That's only because I am superior"
> Wow!!!!
> No Ego problem there
Nope. Just the facts, ma'am. Sorry that you have such a massive ego,
you can't accept anyone being superior to you in any way.
> Just planning total audio domination.
Why? Audio is not my profession. Don't you get tired of looking
ridiculous, with dumb, ignorant statements like this?
> My opinion that I'm a complete and total asshole
> with no priority to sound and total priority to ego,
For once, I'm inclined to agree with you, Westface.
> shouldn't matter to you one bit.
> But it sure did, didn't it?
No, your opinions don't matter to me a bit. Don't you get tired of
looking ridiculous, with dumb, ignorant statements like this?
>
> PS I'm a Luddite, don't own a stereo
I would never have guessed.... ;-)
BTW, you're going to have to get your carrots off of Donkey Boy, if
you want a reward for this troll.
paul packer
April 5th 06, 12:58 AM
On 4 Apr 2006 11:35:21 -0700, wrote:
>Robert Morein wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Robert Morein wrote:
>> >> > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >
>
>> Rec.audio.opinion is not a fair place. You, I, and everybody else have
>> received a good portion of abuse.
>
>Speak for yourself. I don't feel "abused" by childish taunts,
>mockery, ridicule by drooling, slack-jawed ankle-biters with views on
>the world from their backwoods trailer camp. I would have to respect
>those who would try to abuse me in order to feel abused. And if you
>remember a long time ago, I told you in email that I have zero respect
>for most people here. So lets say I received "attacks" from people, for
>trying to help them improve their stereo systems for FREE. And although
>I was much less harsh with my opponents, I even occasionally returned
>some of those attacks. When in Rome....
>
>> But you seem to have learned too fast, and
>> adopted with too much enthusiasm the gambits employed here. In doing so, you
>> squandered the virginality of your appearance, which, with patience, might
>> have resulted in some of what you want, if not from the most vociferous
>> among us,
>
>I think you're making a number of presumptions here, but that's
>what happens when you accept conjecture as truth. I won't correct you
>on the biggest one, because that will open up a whole other can of
>worms. As far as "squandering the virginality of my appearance", I
>don't see it same as you. I don't know if you read it, but I made
>myself pretty clear about my motivations in my report that started this
>thread. Which is that I did not really care that much whether people
>here were or weren't interested in the tweaks. I was more interested
>in seeing if they would be, and the implications of doing or not doing
>so, that's all. When you have no concrete expectations, you have no
>regrets. While I don't disagree with your assessment, my view is, why
>should I spare my precious "patience" on trying to sweet talk people
>into trying free techniques that I make no commisision on? This is
>absolutely the WRONG attitude to have. I'm the one doing people
>favours by putting up the free ideas. That's far more than most
>people on this newsgroup has done for anyone in their lives. So AFAIC,
>it's up to them to convince themselves to take interest in the
>tweaks. I should have done what John Cleese did in Robin Hood. Handing
>out free tweaks to the audio peasants.... along with an obligatory
>punch in the face (because it's necessary. don't ask why).
>
>
>> then among those unknown who do not announce themselves.
>
>The tweaks were, as I said, not necessarily for the regulars on this
>group. That includes lurkers of course, and AFAIC, they can make up
>their own mind. I don't sell things, and I sure as hell don't sell
>FREE TWEAKS, Robert. So I don't see the point in going to all that
>trouble to convince people of things that are hard to convince them of.
>Remember that I said part of my motivation was to challenge people, to
>get them to challenge themselves. If the existence of the information
>and all the hoopla that was written about the tweaks is not enough to
>spark their interest in seeing just who here is bull****ting and who
>the really insane party is, then AFAIC, they don't deserve the tweaks
>to begin with. To use another Python reference (who started this
>anyway?!), if it is the Holy Grail you seek, and you need cross the
>bridge to get it, then you don't get to pass unless you nswer the
>three questions of the troll first.
>
>>But as
>> they say, the "isms", communism and fascism, resemble each other, even as
>> they claim to be opposites. In a like manner, your demeanor resembles that
>> of Arny Krueger, even though the substances of your beliefs are not
>> compatible.
>
>You mean because I engage in realism and he engages in fascism?
>
>>
>> Unfortunately, one of the dirty debating trades of this group is to
>> proclaim a "fact", and back it up with false logic. Arny does this; you do
>> this, and so do a whole host of other people. Some do it for entertainment,
>> and some do it out of deep psychological need.
>
>As I told you in my last message, you already know where most of my
>tweaks came from, and you can do the research yourself on the theories
>behind them. So unlike what Arny does every day, I never backed up
>anything with "false logic". The tweaks are the only things you could
>be sure that were sincere. There's no fun or challenge in fooling RAO
>members just for the sake of fooling them, Robert. That's like taking
>candy from a baby. I've shown how easy that is to do with you, and so
>many others here. So no, I don't have a deep psychological need to
>posit insincere arguments on audio. (Unless I'm playing with Dave
>Weil's little head, then yeah, that was just a funtime activity).
>
>> What I say now, I say as a matter of personal opinion, not fact:
>> 1. With the exception of the "electret cream", I have no opinion as to
>> whether the tweaks you advocate work.
>
>Fine, but I remind you that you don't know how the electret cream
>works (theoretically), and you've never tried it (practicality). You
>simply made a lot of assumptions about things.
>
>> 2. I do not know whether you believe in the tweaks yourself.
>
>Yes, you do. We've had a lot of conversations about it. I've even
>mentioned tweaks to you I decided not to share with the group. If
>you're skeptical to that degree, then your faith in skepticism is a
>crutch, preventing you from gaining new knowledge. And as well,
>you're wrong that I could have sweet talked people had I not returned
>their attacks, and just been a doormat for verbal abuse (in the
>figurative sense), if YOU remain unconvinced of my beliefs in
>alternative audio techniques, after all you've heard of it.
>
>
>> 3. With respect to the "cream", and your relationship with PWB Electronics,
>> there is the "appearance of impropriety." This does not mean that it has
>> been factually established that there is an impropriety. However, anyone who
>> is engaged in journalistic, or alleged independent reporting is aware that
>> the appearance of impropriety renders a person subject to public censure
>
>Hey, let's not kid ourselves, Robert. This is RAO! Remember?
>"Ignorant pig farm?", remember? That implies ANY "appearance" renders a
>person "subject to public censure". When I first came here, I was
>subject to public censure simply for posting my tweaks. I was accused
>of being an anal-retentive objectivist and "playing one side off the
>other", and other absolutely ridiculous conspiracy theories. I was also
>accused of being a "shill", a "crook" and a "horrible evil man" (by
>your imposter). This goes back to my criticism of RAO members, allowing
>their prejudices to form truths, their ignorant bigotry to get in the
>way of understanding the real truth about things. Living proof of that
>is that neither you nor anyone else tried my tweaks. In fact, as you
>well know, there's no point in me even denying any impropriety here,
>even though no one has ever proven such a thing. People just believe
>whatever lies they wish to believe, if it sounds credible to them.
>
>
>> 4. I consider that it is possible that you and PWB Enterprises share a
>> common economic interest in the promotion of their products.
>>
>Just as its possible that you share a common economic interest in Near
>speakers, since you advocated them in one of your posts. Anything is
>"possible" Robert, that's a meaningless statement. What's
>"provable" is quite another matter. See above about how none of your or
>anyone's endless conjecture about me was ever proven.
>
>
>> With respect to r.a.o., there are some things you should be aware of. For
>> better or worse, this group serves as an outlet for people in the relatively
>> harmless release of aggressive impulses via extremely vigorous, frequently
>> unfair verbal jousting.
>
>Trust me, Robert. I'm more aware of that than you are.
>
>
> > Once I wished it wasn't so. I attempted to change
>> it, and was torn to pieces. Subsequently, I accepted that the main purpose
>> of this group is entertainment, or distraction, of a certain sort. To
>> understand what it is, please visualize a burning red pit, surrounded by
>> devilish characters holding pitchforks -- the r.a.o. regulars.. At
>> intervals, one of the regulars is thrown or pushed into the pit. As he tries
>> to climb out, his hands are stomped upon, and he is impaled by forks.
>> Somehow he makes it out, and someone else is thrown in. This is
>> rec.audio.opinion; it is a place where people come, either to watch a fight,
>> or pick one.
>
>Not a place where people come to learn about audio and engage in
>productive discussions about it, is it? Well that's exactly what I
>was stating in my report in this thread, after having provided free
>audio tweaks to people, and had pitch forks tossed at me for my
>efforts.
>
>>
>> This has been going since about 1993. Every day, the regulars assemble for
>> the malediction, the torture, and the rebirth. Sometimes the regulars get
>> bored, and then, like a miracle, someone falls from the sky into their
>> burning pit; they cackle as their pitchforks redden in the coals of
>> conflict, and again when they thrust into your tender flesh.
>
>This is precisely why I think Shovels is going to miss me something
>fierce, despite his constant crying, whining and squawking about when
>I'm going to leave. Mark my words Robert, when he continues to
>mention my name long after I've left.
>
>
>They never
>> tire; they never tire, until they die. Mere mockery has no effect on the
>> spirits of the regulars. They digest it to make even more and better bile.
>> You have to ask yourself whether you want to join this coven.
>
>I did. The answer was "yes siree Bob". But again, you have a lot of
>mistaken impressions about the whole situation, judging by your words
>and lack of real information. I never had any intention of staying, if
>that's what you're implying.
>
>> You cannot
>> "win"; you cannot even endure if your are mortal; the only way you can
>> survive is to let the jinn take over your human spirit.
>
>I never had any intention of "winning" either, if "winning" means
>making my arguments accepted or believed. I don't believe in "winning
>or losing", only in playing the game. That way, it's always a
>satisfying experience.
How fast do you type?
JBorg, Jr.
April 5th 06, 01:09 AM
> soundhaspriority wrote
>> dave weil wrote:
>>> soundhaspriority wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> >> and consider you to
>> >> be totally incompetent.
>> >
>> >Lots of people consider lots of things about me. So far, no one's
>> >even tried to prove any of it is true, let alone, succeeded. I however,
>> >have. For example, I proved Dave Weil was totally incompetent in my
>> >thread "Dave Weil On Turntables, Culture & Education".
>>
>> Bad doggie! Bad, bad! <smacking on snout>
>>
>> To your crate! Now!
>
> I see you missed your carrots, Donkey Boy. There's a crate of them
> over in the corner, just for you for being such a good, predictable
> troll victim.
I don't know why you are making fun of tweaks. Tweaks are cost
effective and they are fun.
Tweaks are good.
--
I'm in the convoluted-mind fixing business. All my works are guaranteed.
wrote:
> Audio is not my profession.
No surprise there, the lay audio community would be
embarrassed to admit you were even one of their ranks.
> My opinion that I'm a complete and total asshole
> with no priority to sound and total priority to ego,
I'm in total agreement with that statement.
> For once, I'm inclined to agree with you, Westface.
A shocking statement, coming from you, there may be some
hope that more self-examination will nurture more humility
in you.
You believe me to be angry, you, who have attempted to
maroon me in this devastated wasteland of an audio
newsgroup.
Well, I will tell you, Mister Soundhaspriority, that you will
know, and know with certainty, when you feel my wrath,
the wrath of {send message}
got angry and threatened me again:
> wrote:
>
> Audio is my profession.
>
> No surprise there, the lay audio community would be
> embarrassed to admit you were even one of their ranks.
Naturally. Since audio is not their profession.
>
> > My opinion is that you're a complete and total asshole
> > with no priority to sound and total priority to ego,
>
> I'm in total agreement with that statement.
I'm in agreement with your agreement.
> > For once, I'm inclined to agree with you, Westface.
>
> A shocking statement, coming from you, there may be some
> hope that more self-examination will nurture more humility
> in you.
I was referring of course to your statement above, where you agreed
that you're a complete and total asshole with no priority to sound
and total priority to ego. It's about the only true thing you ever
said on this group.
> You believe me to be angry,
Well, given all the vitriol and threats in your messages to me, given
the stalking and the trolls that reveal your sick obsessions with me,
yeah, I couldn't help but notice that I anger you a lot. Maybe
you're just an inherently unhappy person.
>you, who have attempted to
> maroon me
No, I said you were a "moron", not "maroon".
> in this devastated wasteland of an audio
> newsgroup.
I'm not gonna have you talk about my newsgroup that way, you ignorant
jerk. There are GOOD people here, even if they all are ignorant
presumptious, mindless dogmatic bigots who wouldn't recognize a grain
of truth if it bit them in the ass. If its a "devastated wasteland",
its only because YOU and your objectivist friends made it a "devastated
wasteland".
And also the subjectivists.
> Well, I will tell you, Mister Soundhaspriority, that you will
> know, and know with certainty, when you feel my wrath,
> the wrath of {send message}
You're STILL trying to threaten me again? First you attempt to
threaten me with your "guns" and now some weird unknown threats. This
is the first sure sign that tells me you're getting angry because
you've lost again. Not only are you a self-deprecating clown, but a
total incompetent as well. You're a sad, ignorant bigot who
couldn't prove a point if your life depended on it.
Robert Morein wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > postured:
> >
> > <pages of irrelevant text snipped>
> >
> >> Except for our Mr. SHP who scorns antibiotics and goes for
> >> "alternatives" when he gets pneumonia. He does not say which
> >> ones he'd use if he was choking from losing half of his oxygen
> >> absorption capacity with raging fever, delirium and 50%
> >> mortality rate.
> >
> > Yet another possibly productive debate, stopped dead by a belligerent
> > asshole. I certainly did not say what you claimed above. So either,
> > you're not educated enough to have understood what I wrote about
> > alternative medecines in my last post, or like your friend Powell, you
> > are deliberately being intellectually dishonest, and playing debating
> > trade games just to score points. Your behaviour is reprehensible,
> > either way. You just lost the privilege of serious debate with me.
> > Don't bother ever trying again. Since you seem to think you already
> > know everything, remain willfully ignorant, if that is your desire.
> >
> Dear Mr. Graham:
> Ludovic Mirabel is a medical doctor, and researcher, who is perhaps the
> most respected member of this group.
>
> Regards,
> Robert Morein
Dear Bob, thank you for an undeserved
compliment.
Make no mistake-deserved or not I'm a
glutton for them. Especially as this must be
the first time in my life that I achieved the
status of being a "respected member" of any
group. More often I have been a thorn in any
group's flesh.
Don't worry! Mr.SHP did not upset me. On
the contrary. I consider it another compliment
that I managed to reduce him to silence once
he relieved his hurt by emptying
the sewer over my head.
Note that he continues to respond volubly
(and at times entertainingly) to all and sundry
however insulting they are to him but
clams up and breaks diplomatic relations just
with little me. Must have done something right.
He's not the first one to flush the gutter and
then retire into silence in a vain hope of
achieving immunity. The others are also true
believers but their hymnal is different.
The difference is immaterial: they claim
to be selling "science" (their version), he
is a believer in a litle sectarian chapel run by
a man who sells magic audio cream.
Ludovic Mirabel.
Walt
April 5th 06, 03:33 AM
wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Audio is not my profession.
>
> No surprise there, the lay audio community would be
> embarrassed to admit you were even one of their ranks.
Not just that, who in their right mind would ever *pay* Shippy to do
anything related to audio:
"I've improved the sound of your system by placing a picture of
a Koala Bear and an asprin under the speakers."
"Hmmm. I don't hear any difference."
" Asshole!!! You are deliberately being intellectually dishonest,
and playing debating trade games just to score points. Your
behaviour is reprehensible, either way. You just lost the privilege
of serious debate with me. Don't bother ever trying again. Since you
seem to think you already know everything, remain willfully
ignorant, if that is your desire."
"Ok. So, how much do I owe you?"
So what, exactly, does Shipppy actually do for a living? My guess is
that he's on the dole living in his mother's basement, and incapable
of supporting himself.* Which is why he has a sound system that is so
crappy that he's ashamed to admit the models, and invents a fantasy
world of reef knot tweaks and electret cream snake oil in a desperate
attempt to salvage a small crumb of self respect.
*case in point: his admission that he has been on "holiday" recently -
as in "on holiday" for the past six weeks. Who other than an
unemployed malingerer would spend their holiday posting four dozen
kook rants a day at all hours of the day and night?
// Walt
wrote: "Send me to the
store for 1 euro clue and I'll come back with a
tweaked 10p Pez dispenser
> got angry and threatened me again:
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > Audio is my profession.
> >
> > No surprise there, the lay audio community would be
> > embarrassed to admit you were even one of their ranks.
> Naturally. Since audio is not their profession.
> >
> > My opinion is that you're a complete and total asshole
> > with no priority to sound and total priority to ego,
> > > I'm in total agreement with that statement.
> > I'm in agreement with your agreement.
> For once, I'm inclined to agree with you, Westface.
> > A shocking statement, coming from you, there may be some
> > hope that more self-examination will nurture more humility
> > in you.
> I was referring of course to your statement above, where you
agreed
> that you're a complete and total asshole with no priority to sound
> and total priority to ego. It's about the only true thing you ever
> said on this group.
> > You believe me to be angry,
> Well, given all the vitriol and threats in your messages to me,
given
> the stalking and the trolls that reveal your sick obsessions with
me,
> yeah, I couldn't help but notice that I anger you a lot. Maybe
> you're just an inherently unhappy person.
>
> >you, who have attempted to
> > maroon me
> No, I said you were a "moron", not "maroon".
> > in this devastated wasteland of an audio
> > newsgroup.
> I'm not gonna have you talk about my newsgroup that way, you
ignorant
> jerk. There are GOOD people here, even if they all are ignorant
> presumptious, mindless dogmatic bigots who wouldn't recognize a
grain
> of truth if it bit them in the ass. If its a "devastated
wasteland",
> its only because YOU and your objectivist friends made it a
"devastated
> wasteland".
> And also the subjectivists.
> > Well, I will tell you, Mister Soundhaspriority, that you will
> > know, and know with certainty, when you feel my wrath,
> > the wrath of {send message}
> You're STILL trying to threaten me again? First you attempt to
> threaten me with your "guns" and now some weird unknown threats.
This
> is the first sure sign that tells me you're getting angry because
> you've lost again. Not only are you a self-deprecating clown, but
a
> total incompetent as well. You're a sad, ignorant bigot who
> couldn't prove a point if your life depended on it.
Prove it !!!! ( I should run a pop culture trivia contest here )
Of I
Khan !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Walt wrote:
> wrote:
> > It all really is much simpler.
> > Till the 5th. decade of the last century medical treatment went by
> > the feel in the seat of Herr Professor pants. Any Tom, Dick
> > and Harry could have, and had a grand theory.
> > And children continued to die in epidemics of scarlet fever and
> > diphtheria or be crippled by polio....
>
> > What happened in the 1950s? The Med. Research Ccil.
> > of U.K. developed double blind testing.. Medical treatment proposals
> > from then on had to be based on EVIDENCE- ie. experimental research
> > with rigid guidelines. The new drugs had to be proven to WORK.
>
> A question, in earnest: Why is double blind testing appropriate for
> medecine but not for audio? If I'm putting words into your mouth, I
> appologize - please feel free to clarify your position.
>
> IOW, if I propose an improvement to an audio system, shouldn't the
> differece be detectable in a DBT before it's accepted as a credible
> "therapy"?
>
> //Walt
The devil is in the details Mr.Walt.
Medical therapy research DBT has to fulfil
rigid criteria for acceptance and criticism
in a reputable
medical Journal and approval by the
governmental administrative bodies. The
process takes years.
The subject group has to be
representative as to the gender, age,
social status, education etc. It has also to
comprise statistically valid number of
subjects.
The group has to be randomised ie. the
subjects are assigned sequentially to a
control group of those who are fed an inert
"placebo"and those who get the treatment under
test.
Neither the researcher nor the subjects know
who gets what ("double blind").
The objective verification is essential.
The course of the disease has to be altered
as shown by survival rate, bodily, laboratory
and Xray changes. In psychiatry the speed
and rate of return to normal life is watched.
"I feel better" is not enough. The
placebo effect accounts for 35 to 45% of
"cures" in the placebo group.
Many such studies were done before
DBT became the gold standard of medical
research. In other words DBT was validated
as medical research tool by research.
No such validating studies exist
for ABX. None. Period. No ABX component
comparison studies were ever thought deserving
of publication in the Journal of Audio-Engin. Association. None.
In the 80s. pop.audio mags published
several ABX component tests: cables, cd players,
preamps and amps. They were all negative ie.
"they all sound the same".
Never a statistically significant (eg. over 75%)
"I hear a difference" outcome between anything
in audio and anything else
They all consisted of people making check marks
in the "neg." or "pos" square. Subjective
impressions, no objective verification possible.
Variable numbers of non-representative non-randomised subjects.
If I were a subject I'd hear no
difference either because after 10 or 15 A,B.X
snippets I have no clue if I hear The Rolling
Stones or Mozart's Piano Concerto.
Conclusion: You're welcome to do your
own DBT.
***As long as you remember that if
you get a negative result it is
1) Questionable because this tool may be
obliterating any non-gross differences
as it has done so far in the "Stereo Review"
listening tests.
2)If valid it is valid for you ONLY-
at your stage of musical education and
familiarity with the variety of audio
components.***
However let me not discourage you
from trying Arny Krueger's PCABX site for your
own judgement and pleasure.
Ludovic Mirabel
I answered your enquiry because it
seemed a sincere request for information. But
you must forgive me if I choose to not respond to further
correspondence. In Arny's words I've been there
done that too many times. The old battles can be
found in Google by typing my name in "Search".
ScottW wrote:
> Robert Morein wrote:
> > Dear Mr. Graham:
> > Ludovic Mirabel is a medical doctor, and researcher, who is perhaps the
> > most respected member of this group.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Robert Morein
>
Bob. > Wow.... I knew you were out of touch and generally a nutjob...
but I
> never realized how serious your problems really are, My
> condolences to your family.
> BTW, cancel my membership.
>
> ScottW
The yapping ankle-snapper seems angry with me
and anyone agreeing with me
He posts witticisms like this one:
Bob. > Wow.... I knew you were out of touch and generally a nutjob...
but I
> never realized how serious your problems really are, My
> condolences to your family.
A few weeks ago he was even more humorous that time to me
directly.
"How DID you get in? I fear you are a bovine spongiform
encephalitis risk to the nation".
What have I done? Well, I held a mirror to him
to contemplate what his arrogant stupidity
looks like to a witness:
He pontificated to someone thus:
:
>"NoNoNo... it must be salicylic acid ...
aspirin is only converted to
> pain reliever in the intestine... but
salicylic acid is the real pain killer and it can act as mild acid
flux. :).
> Wart remover will do in a pinch.
> "aspirin is only converted to
> pain reliever in the intestine... but
salicylic acid is the real pain
> killer and it can act as mild acid flux."
I pointed out to him in Wittgenstein's
words that whereof one doesn't have a
clue thereof one remains silent:
:
" Aspirin= proprietary name given
by Bayer to (acetyl L.M.) salicylic acid.
Aspirin=salicylic acid.
NonBayer aspirin= salicylic acid (Bayer's patent expired).
(Known as ASA)
"Wart remover"= salicylic acid= aspirin
I liked "mild acid flux". Whatever that is and however it "acts"
on pain."
In response he muttered something about solder flux
demonstrating further that he has no
idea about the difference between organic and
inorganic chemistry.
Whereupon as I predicted he clammed up.
But hope springs
eternal. As I also predicted he was just
lurking in the bushes waiting to jump out
yapping and snapping again.
Why bother answering de novo? This is what
he'll get now and get again if needed:
"History of aspirin..." March 17
Low IQ is no shame. After all low IQs are
in the majority. Most people have enough sense
to know their expertise limits.
The problem begins when some of the
disadvantaged feel that the world hadn't
given them their due. They start "thinking".
The "thinking" runs something like this:
"I'm as good as those so and guys that always
look down on me. I'll show'em a thing or two"
The free for all internet fosters their
delusions
Not having the background, education or
judgement to know to stay out of topics beyond
their keen they immediately blunder into
showing themselves for the ignorant low IQs
they are.
IF they are stupid as well as ignorant
they don't give up to go home and lick their
wounds.
No,- they abandon the topic under
discussion and while
running away mouth kindergarten insults-
puns on the name- and
grade 6 witticisms : "you have encephalopathy".
"you drank the wrong kind of beer"
"you are deludo"
Then they wait for a better day to reemerge,
hoping that everyone forgot the last fiasco.
Because you can bet they will. They
can't help themselves
Regards Ludovic Mirabel"
Prophetic enough?
------------------
paul packer
April 5th 06, 06:46 AM
On 4 Apr 2006 13:10:56 -0700, wrote:
>So either,
>you're not educated enough to have understood what I wrote about
>alternative medecines in my last post, or like your friend Powell, you
>are deliberately being intellectually dishonest, and playing debating
>trade games just to score points. Your behaviour is reprehensible,
>either way.
Hang on. If one of the possibilities is that he's not educated enough
to be able to understand what you wrote, why in that case would his
behaviour be reprehensible? There's nothing reprehensible about
failing to understand something, or even posting on that basis. Your
standards may be high, but fair go.
paul packer
April 5th 06, 06:49 AM
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:32:53 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan
> wrote:
>paul packer > wrote:
>
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> > "Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
>> >
>> >
>> > > Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E Coyote-style
>> > > *super genius*.
>> >
>> > > Does this mean he'll be ****ing off now? If so,
>> > > can he take the rest of you subjectivist nutbars with
>> > > him?
>> >
>> > No such luck.
>
>> Gee, we thought you liked us, Arnie. I'm crushed.
>
>
>Do you consider yourself a subjectivist *nutbar*, Paul?
>I thought you were just their cheerleader.
I'm looking at it from Arnie's POV. Arnie believes I'm a Middius
follower, therefore a subjectivist. And what Arnie believes is always
right.
paul packer
April 5th 06, 06:50 AM
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:12:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:
>>I'm crushed.
>
>Someone is crushing mental dwarves with pliers again?
Gee, and while ago I was 20 IQ points up on Dave Weill. What does that
say about Dave then?
Anon E Mouse
April 5th 06, 07:44 AM
On Tue, 4 Apr 2006, Robert Morein wrote:
> [...]
>
> Ludovic Mirabel is a medical doctor, and researcher, who is perhaps the
> most respected member of this group.
Which one?
--
Anon E. Mouse
Fella
April 5th 06, 12:45 PM
paul packer wrote:
>
>
> How fast do you type?
>
Yes, I've also been pondering the same thing about this whacky Sound
dude myself. Apparently, at one time or another it was typing that had
THE priority. And it might be so that he has typing tweaks from his
typinghaspriority days, like, dunno, some kooky and weird ****, like,
umm, draw a "u" shape on the bottom of his keyboard with a blue pen, or
write "-> typing has priority, good dog, good chihuahua" in the insides
of his boxer shorts, etc, you know, the usual quantum mechanics ****
like that.
Arny Krueger
April 5th 06, 01:06 PM
"paul packer" > wrote in message
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:32:53 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan
> > wrote:
>
>> paul packer > wrote:
>>
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> "Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E
>>>>> Coyote-style *super genius*.
>>>>
>>>>> Does this mean he'll be ****ing off now? If so,
>>>>> can he take the rest of you subjectivist nutbars with
>>>>> him?
>>>>
>>>> No such luck.
>>
>>> Gee, we thought you liked us, Arnie. I'm crushed.
>>
>>
>> Do you consider yourself a subjectivist *nutbar*, Paul?
>> I thought you were just their cheerleader.
>
> I'm looking at it from Arnie's POV. Arnie believes I'm a
> Middius follower, therefore a subjectivist. And what
> Arnie believes is always right.
Wrong again, Paul.
I'm an informed subjectivist. I'm easily in the top quartile of all audio
experts who post on Usenet and the web. I build audio complex gear from
scratch, do live recording and live sound for fun and profit, and built two
trend-setting internationally-recognized web sites related to audio
technology. I'm comfortable and competent specifying and setting up anything
from a vinyl playback system, to a high quality 2 channel listening system,
to a multichannel AV system including video projectors, to a 32 channel
digital recorder, to a 56 channel digital mixer with dozens of mics and
speaker systems for live sound and recording, to computer systems for high
quality audio recording, production, listening, or technical measurements.
I'm also an internationally-recognized authority when it comes to designing
and performing listening tests.
I'm not the best but I'm up there. I have busted a well-known audio magazine
editor's chops on his own playing field.
OTOH Paul, you're a naive subjectivist, with hardly any technical knowlege
at all. You're full of ignorant pride, and can't take being corrected by
anyone, as you blunder around the world of audio technology with hardly a
clue. I've tried to help you, and you've wasted an incredible amount of
energy trying to denegrate me for my efforts on your behalf.
A natural ally of a almost totally worthless person like you Paul is
Middius, and you're happy together. You reinforce each other. Middius makes
you feel like you have worth, even though you just barely deserve to exist
in the world of audio. Like Middius and Morien, you need the Usenet
equivalent of yellow safety tape wrapped around almost every post you make,
because they represent thinking that is so mislead and misleading.
Oh, and do I believe I'm always right? Not hardly. For example I've recently
made a technical post that is off by an order of magnitude in the third
decimal place, IOW it's about 0.9% wrong. Thing is, I was correcting an
error that was 100% wrong.
Your problem Paul is that you're not even smart enough to make the mistakes
I make, and you're clearly unable to know what they are or how to correct
them. Well, maybe you can correct some of my typos and expeditious syntax.
So what?
Sander deWaal
April 5th 06, 06:41 PM
said:
>But let's not get too ahead of ourselvers here.... You're probably
>the most open minded person on the group, but there's still the fact
>that you mocked and ridiculed my tweaks before you had any idea that
>they might be based on valid scientific concepts, and as far as I know,
>you never actually tried any of them. You gave me some excuse about how
>you had to wait until you moved, or all your speakers were in alignment
>with the phases of the moon or something ridiculous like that, which
>doesn't explain how you don't have 30 seconds to try one of the
>tweaks, now does it. That all went into the notebook, you know.
I wanted to have my system in as good a condition as it could get.
That means in this case: the best speaker placement that is possible
in my listening room without giving up the ability to actually *live*
in that room.
Remember that we moved into this house almost a year ago, and that I
have been trying to get the speakers placement right since then (not
all the time of course, I went through a job change that urged me to
do some extra study, and then there is The She of course).
So speaker placement, and a new, additional amplifier I have built so
that each Magnepan now sees its own amplifier channel.
>> Likewise.
>> I'll be trying your first tweak tonight, because you managed to make
>> me think about some things.
>Really?! Like what? If you're sincere, then I suggest you peek into
>the "L-shape for Dummies!" thread and print out the L-shapes and apply
>them exactly as directed, and get down to some serious listening! I
>think out of the ones that I shared with people, it's probably one of
>the easiest and most effective, and a good choice for "beginners of
>advanced audio concepts".
I had a distinct feeling that your first posted tweak would have the
most impact in a positive way, if I would notice something at all (you
see, I'm still a skeptic at heart).
I'm glad I didn't pick the "L" shape tweak, as you admitted today
that, while it will do *something*, it's probably not in a positive
way.
However, I hesitated to post here about the result, that's why I
waited another day to make sure I wasn't hearing things (pun
intended).
Let me start by describing my main system:
- Record player: DIY belt driven with Rega RB300, Denon DL160 and
electronic motor stabilizer (a bit like Linn Walhalla).
- CD transport: Pioneer PDS-07, modified with Tentlabs clock (like
Trichord) and separate, well filtered split power supply. Coaxial out.
- DAC:DIY 24 bit crystal delta-sigma converter with class A output and
separated, well filtered split power supply.
- Preamplifier: DIY line stage with 6SN7, phono preamp 2 x 12AY7 with
passive RIAA correction. Separate power supply.
Noble pot, polypropylene, the whole shebang.
- Amplifiers: in this case all hybrids, DIY, E288CC driving several
pairs of Hitachi MOSFETs in class A. Heavily oversized power supplies.
The smaller one capable of delivering 20Vrms at almost any load, the
bigger one capable of delivering 30Vrms at almost any load.
- Loudspeakers: 1 pair of Magnepan MG1 improved, modified with
different filter components and added woodwork to improve stability
and supress resonances.
1 pair of Magnepan SMGA with modified filter.
The large amp drives the MG1s, the smaller drives the SMGAs.
No subwoofers (yet).
- Cables: DIY coaxial RG58U with WBT connectors throughout, also for
digital. Lenghts 1 meter.
Twisted 2.5 qmm silver plated copper cable with teflon isolation, 4 x
5 meters.
For this listening session I didn't use my triode amps, for obvious
reasons (.....)
Now for the tweak and results:
I used an A4 size paper, pinched small holes with a pin in each
corner, 1 cm. from the corners, and one at the diagonals in the
middle.
I cut out a picture of one of our cats and glued it at the backside of
the paper.
Because of the small footprint of the Maggies, I had to glue the
aspirin with superglue to the paper, because it has to be placed
hanging at the side of the speaker.
The paper was then taped to the side of the left MG1 speaker, out of
the way of the radiation from the panel.
I started listening yesterday before I prepared the paper.
After the paperwork was done, I attached it to the left speaker with
tape.
During this, the system was playing a CD.
I must admit, back at the listening position, I felt a bit weird,
foolish even.
That changed when I started to listen more carefully for details.
At first, I didn't notice anything special (as if I expected a sudden
increase in bass or something), but after listening longer, it seemed
that everything went just smoother, the music seemed to go slower,
even.
It is very hard to describe what exactly changed, but if I have to put
it in words, things just seem to go easier, there is less listening
fatigue.
My wife and I both listened all night yesterday, and just now, back
from work, I listened for another hour with both CDs and LPs.
The improvement is still there, a sense of easiness, smoothness,
effortless performance of the band or orchestra.
There is no extra information, no broadening of the stage, no deeper
soundstage, no extra focusing and things like that that are usually
mentioned with non-electronic tweaks.
Just that sense of easiness.
I have absolutely no explanation for what happens, other than maybe
some kind of expectation mechanism (however, remember I started out
skeptical!)
What I *do* know, is that you were right about audible changes in the
system.
This is not a troll, this is not some insincere mocking, this is
absolutely real.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
dave weil
April 5th 06, 08:25 PM
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 19:41:49 +0200, Sander deWaal >
wrote:
>That changed when I started to listen more carefully for details.
>At first, I didn't notice anything special (as if I expected a sudden
>increase in bass or something), but after listening longer, it seemed
>that everything went just smoother, the music seemed to go slower,
>even.
>
>It is very hard to describe what exactly changed, but if I have to put
>it in words, things just seem to go easier, there is less listening
>fatigue.
>
>My wife and I both listened all night yesterday, and just now, back
>from work, I listened for another hour with both CDs and LPs.
>The improvement is still there, a sense of easiness, smoothness,
>effortless performance of the band or orchestra.
Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
Sander deWaal
April 5th 06, 09:04 PM
dave weil > said:
>Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
>tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
No, not yet.
I intend to let it stick for a while, as I believe that differences in
components are best heard over a longer period of time.
I'll try removing the paper later, to see whether this changes
anything.
Another possibility might be to try different positions for the paper,
but that is, again, for later.
For now, I'm very satisfied, though also mystified, by the results.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal wrote:
> dave weil > said:
>
>
> >Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
> >tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
>
>
> No, not yet.
> I intend to let it stick for a while, as I believe that differences in
> components are best heard over a longer period of time.
>
> I'll try removing the paper later, to see whether this changes
> anything.
> Another possibility might be to try different positions for the paper,
> but that is, again, for later.
>
> For now, I'm very satisfied, though also mystified, by the results.
>
> --
>
> - Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Perhaps have your wife remove it at some random time,
and not tell you. That would eliminate the expectation
condition. I too, am mystified by your observation.
dave weil
April 5th 06, 09:51 PM
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 22:04:21 +0200, Sander deWaal >
wrote:
>dave weil > said:
>
>
>>Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
>>tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
>
>
>No, not yet.
>I intend to let it stick for a while, as I believe that differences in
>components are best heard over a longer period of time.
>
>I'll try removing the paper later, to see whether this changes
>anything.
>Another possibility might be to try different positions for the paper,
>but that is, again, for later.
>
>For now, I'm very satisfied, though also mystified, by the results.
Well, let us know after you've tried two things. First, going back to
the original state. And second, trying a picture of your wife instead
of the family pet. (and yes, I'm serious). Oh yeah, a third thing
should be moving the assembly from the position that you've placed it.
And a fourth would be seeing if only 4 pinholes changes things.
dave weil
April 5th 06, 09:52 PM
On 5 Apr 2006 13:50:31 -0700, wrote:
> I too, am mystified by your observation.
I'm not. Not particularly, that is.
Walt
April 5th 06, 10:17 PM
wrote:
> Sander deWaal wrote:
>>dave weil > said:
>>
>>>Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
>>>tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
>>
>>
>>No, not yet.
>>I intend to let it stick for a while, as I believe that differences in
>>components are best heard over a longer period of time.
>>
>>I'll try removing the paper later, to see whether this changes
>>anything.
>>Another possibility might be to try different positions for the paper,
>>but that is, again, for later.
>>
>>For now, I'm very satisfied, though also mystified, by the results.
> Perhaps have your wife remove it at some random time,
> and not tell you. That would eliminate the expectation
> condition. I too, am mystified by your observation.
As I understand the theory from reading the Peter Belt website, knowing
that it's there is an implicit part or the process. Of course, this
makes it impossible to eliminate the expectation condition through
testing, but that's not what's important. The important thing is that
Sander is happier when his speakers festooned with a piece of paper with
five holes in it, an asprin, and a picture of his cat. And who am I to
try to tell him otherwise?
In the immortal words of Benny Hill:
Now if you're feeling miserable, if you're feeling blue,
Here's a little ditty that'll help to pull you through.
All the clouds will disappear and the grey skies turn to blue,
Just stick your finger in your ear and go ting-a-ling-a-loo.
//Walt
ScottW
April 5th 06, 11:01 PM
wrote:
> ScottW wrote:
> > Robert Morein wrote:
> > > Dear Mr. Graham:
> > > Ludovic Mirabel is a medical doctor, and researcher, who is perhaps the
> > > most respected member of this group.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Robert Morein
> >
> Bob. > Wow.... I knew you were out of touch and generally a nutjob...
> but I
> > never realized how serious your problems really are, My
> > condolences to your family.
> > BTW, cancel my membership.
> >
> > ScottW
>
> The yapping ankle-snapper seems angry with me
> and anyone agreeing with me
Perhap I should have just left the Morein endorsement and all its
worth....
to you.
ScottW
Steven Sullivan
April 5th 06, 11:27 PM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> dave weil > said:
> >Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
> >tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
> No, not yet.
> I intend to let it stick for a while, as I believe that differences in
> components are best heard over a longer period of time.
> I'll try removing the paper later, to see whether this changes
> anything.
> Another possibility might be to try different positions for the paper,
> but that is, again, for later.
> For now, I'm very satisfied, though also mystified, by the results.
Difference reported from sighted listening, what a mystery.
Anyway, here are some more suggestions, drawn from literature
I feel is appropriate to the subject:
Have you tried the tweak while in a box?
Have you tried the tweak while on some rocks?
Have you tried the tweak outside the house?
Have you tried the tweak using a mouse?
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
dizzy
April 6th 06, 01:04 AM
wrote:
>Ha! Made ya look! Sorry, I'm just kidding. But seriously, you really
>*are* a bunch of closed-minded ignorant pigs.
Bye bye, troll. Ker-plonk!
Steven Sullivan
April 6th 06, 01:29 AM
Fella > wrote:
> Sander deWaal wrote:
> > What I *do* know, is that you were right about audible changes in the
> > system.
> >
> When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
> do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
> listening) for the effects of the "tweak", it will have just simply worn
> off...
LOL. I love it! (We borgs call it 'expectation bias'.)
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
> I had a distinct feeling that your first posted tweak would have the
> most impact in a positive way, if I would notice something at all (you
> see, I'm still a skeptic at heart).
That's normal. I was a skeptic at heart too when I first embarked
upon these wild audio adventures.... after a while of investigating one
advanced audio concept after another, the shock and amazement wears
off... Once your system gets to where mine is, where so much has
changed that it no longer sounds like the same system, that's when
you know for certain, this isn't a "maybe it works, maybe it
doesn't" kind of thing.
> I'm glad I didn't pick the "L" shape tweak, as you admitted today
> that, while it will do *something*, it's probably not in a positive
> way.
I'm sorry you didn't. I really did put a lot of effort into that
design (I was trying to learn what aspects of the shape affect what
aspects of the sound). My point in posting the image
(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
Yes, I said I didn't care enough for the change to leave it in my
system, but take that with a grain of salt. I'm very picky about any
changes I make. That means they must be wholly positive, or far more
positive than detrimental. In my system, the L-shape printout didn't
pass muster in the end (although I must admit, I loved it at first!).
In your system, you may find otherwise, if you try it out and do hear
changes. (Keep in mind, I have a lot of carefully drawn L-shapes all
around the place, and the BMP image I designed may not interact too
well with the ones I already have in place). But anyway, its easily
applied and easily removed, if you don't like how it sounds in your
system, or don't hear differences.
> However, I hesitated to post here about the result, that's why I
> waited another day to make sure I wasn't hearing things (pun
> intended).
>
> Let me start by describing my main system:
> - Record player: DIY belt driven with Rega RB300, Denon DL160 and
> electronic motor stabilizer (a bit like Linn Walhalla).
DIY record deck? Cool! Seems like your entire system is decked out with
cool DIY stuff. Now THAT is what I call an "active audiophile"! Or
"true audiophile" (because if you remember, this hobby became one
because of people like you who built their amps and such. Later on, an
"audiophile" simply referred to anyone that bought high quality gear!
The standards of being an "audiophile" lowered!).
> Now for the tweak and results:
> I used an A4 size paper, pinched small holes with a pin in each
> corner, 1 cm. from the corners, and one at the diagonals in the
> middle.
I'm not sure exactly what size A4 is, but it sounds like it might be
too large (although maybe this doesn't matter...). All I know is that
when I experimented with the 5-pinhole paper tweak, mine was a
rectangle of just a few inches in size (2 x 3" maybe). I'm not sure
what the ideal size here is, I did not spend much time on the 5-pinhole
paper tweak (in fact, I don't actually have any of the devices
installed in my system presently! I do however have some aspirin
tablets in some very key locations...).
> I cut out a picture of one of our cats and glued it at the backside of
> the paper.
Nnnnnnnnnoooo! My instructions didn't say anything about "gluing".
Glue will affect the tweak, because such materials have their own
influence on the sound, and I don't believe it's a good one.
> Because of the small footprint of the Maggies, I had to glue the
> aspirin with superglue to the paper, because it has to be placed
> hanging at the side of the speaker.
Nnnnnnnnooo! Not superglue! All you have to do is follow the directions
to achieve best results: cat pic, then pinholed paper, then aspirin in
centre, and if you are not placing it on a level surface, just
sellotape the device to your surface with a single piece of tape, going
across the paper and over the aspirin. If for some reason you can't
use tape, use bluetak, but not glue.
Although I didn't test this, going by my theory, the effect should be
better if the device is placed as close to your output jacks as
possible. Energy seems to center around exit and entrance paths;
whether we're talking audio gear or your house. Principles of Chi
follow a similar pattern, note.
> I started listening yesterday before I prepared the paper.
> After the paperwork was done, I attached it to the left speaker with
> tape During this, the system was playing a CD.
> I must admit, back at the listening position, I felt a bit weird,
> foolish even.
Been there, done that. That just means you're on the right track!
> That changed when I started to listen more carefully for details.
> At first, I didn't notice anything special (as if I expected a sudden
> increase in bass or something),
That's why you didn't notice anything special. It doesn't hit you
like a sock in the face, and it doesn't necessarily make any one
aspect of the music stand out (like bass). This is why I believe some
people, believe there is no effect, when they try these things. It
doesn't do what their preconceived notions of an "improvement" are.
But it's an improvement nevertheless. LIke anything in audio, it will
be as noticeable as your listening skill allows. Even so, this tweak
isn't the most effective of my tweaks, as I'm sure I've said
elsewhere. But it does seem to capture people's imaginations the
most, since it is the single most ridiculed tweak that I've been
mocked and derided for during my entire stay here. That's why I made
it my first. ;-)
>but after listening longer, it seemed
> that everything went just smoother, the music seemed to go slower,
> even. It is very hard to describe what exactly changed, but if I have to put
> it in words, things just seem to go easier, there is less listening
> fatigue.
Bingo! I know that you must have heard the effect of the 5-pinhole
paper tweak, because you just described the basic sonic characteristic
of ALL advanced audio concepts, which my tweaks are based on, in the
phrase "less listening fatigue". If you note in an earlier post to
Fella, who asked me what changes the L-shape brought about, I said it
was very hard to describe exactly what changes. But that if I have to
put it into words, I'd call it less "hifi hash". I described that as
removing the "hifi" quality from your hifi. This results actually in
less listening fatigue. As you progress down this path, you find the
sound really does get more "natural" as well.
> My wife and I both listened all night yesterday, and just now, back
> from work, I listened for another hour with both CDs and LPs.
> The improvement is still there, a sense of easiness, smoothness,
> effortless performance of the band or orchestra.
You and your missus wanna hear something really cool? Try applying the
same device (without the glue!) to ALL of your audio components (not
more than one per, preferably near the output or inputs). Even wires
and cables! (Apply with blue-tak). But you needn't stop there. You
can try it on other objects in your environment, like furniture and
such. I suspect the improvements you hear will go beyond what you heard
before, and you may get to hear that "natural sound" effect I was
referring to. Then after a few days or so, once you get well used to
the sound of your stereo with all the devices in place... remove them!
That will better convince you that its a real effect, and not due to
the fact that you love the idea of seeing aspirins on your expensive
hifi gear.
> There is no extra information, no broadening of the stage, no deeper
> soundstage, no extra focusing and things like that that are usually
> mentioned with non-electronic tweaks.
> Just that sense of easiness.
That "sense of easiness" is a characteristic that you simply can not
obtain from any electronic tweaks (that operate on the signal domain or
acoustic pressure waves). This is what the perpetually ignorant on this
group, ie. Powell, always fail to understand about these techniques.
Because there isn't "money" behind it and it doesn't appear
complicated, these simple minds figure its effect is either nonexistent
or truly negligible. But even if it isn't the most dramatic change
you've heard, would you call an audio improvement that is simply
unobtainable at any price using conventional audio products and ideas
"negligible"? Not me.
Now imagine that "sense of easiness" and "effortlessness" multiplied by
100 times. That too is possible, once you really get into alternative
audio. What I'm saying is that, I do believe those other things you
mentioned likely did have an influence from the 5-pinhole tweak, but
you picked up on the reduction of hifi hash aspect ("sense of
easiness"), because that stood out most. I say that because there are
many techniques I've used that follow the same principles as the
simple little 5-pinhole paper device. I can tell you without flinching
that they can produce "extra information, broadening of the soundstage,
deepening as well, better imaging (focusing)" and things like that.
Just the L-shape alone, if properly applied, can do all those things,
IMHO.
> I have absolutely no explanation for what happens, other than maybe
> some kind of expectation mechanism (however, remember I started out
> skeptical!)
That's normal too, to immediately try to find "reasons". The
"reasons" is the complicated part. It requires at the very least,
reading Dr. Sheldrake's research into our primitive biological
senses. In extremely basic terms, what the 5-pinhole tweak, a
deceptively clever device, is doing is reducing adverse energy that is
part of all objects in our environment. Reduction of this energy allows
our primitive senses to suffer less stress, a reduction of this type of
stress results in less "stress" in the sound we hear. Some who have
tweaked their environments to the gills with advanced products that
work this way, also report less stress in their mood as well, whether
the stereo is on or not. No other audio devices work like this.
It isn't an "expectation mechanism", Sander. But that's also normal
for "Western Rationalists" to immediately trigger that response in
themselves. You want to try to find a "rational" explanation, including
dismissing your experiences entirely, because otherwise.... well who
wants to believe themselves insane? Not even the insane, do!
When I first started tweaking her system with things like this without
telling her, and improved the sound dramatically, my wife would tell me
"What happened to the sound of my stereo?!" She had no idea that I was
doing anything to upgrade the sound. So not only did she hear the
effects of the alternative audio tweaks, but she could not possibly
have suffered any expectation/placebo effects, because there was no
indication whatsoever that a change should have taken place. I also
started out skeptical of many techniques that I worked on, like you.
I've done things that make the 5-pinhole tweak look as kooky as
repositioning your speakers. During which I would repeatedly tell
myself "There's no way this is going to do anything... ". But then,
it got kind of silly to keep telling myself that, the more that I did
silly things to my audio system, and they turned out to be perfectly
valid techniques....:-).
> What I *do* know, is that you were right about audible changes in the
> system.
Told ya so! LIke I said, I could tell early on that despite the
mockery, you were the most open-minded, reasonable, and independently
minded person on the group (as opposed to the mindless sheep that only
follow the behaviour and thinking of their peers). Which is why despite
your onslaught of mockery, so many of your responses to me differed
from those of the others. Takes a lot of courage to admit that. Not
only did I not expect any one here would be open-minded enough to try
any of the tweaks, but that even if they did, they'd never have the
courage to admit it on the group. So not only do I admire and respect
the fact that you're an active audiophile, have an "open enough
mind", but I respect your courage as well!
> This is not a troll, this is not some insincere mocking, this is
> absolutely real.
I can almost always tell the difference, and I do believe your
experiences are sincere; especially since they so closely followed
mine. Congrats! You are now by my estimation, officially 40-50 years
ahead of the audio industry and community! :-) Perhaps if you pursue
these alternative paths as far as I have, you'll have acheived "high
audio monk" status like me, and enjoy ridicule and mockery from your
less enlightened colleagues all throughout the community! Fun! ;-)
BTW, It looks like I'm going to have to slightly revise some of my
findings in my thesis on "The Ignorant Pigs of RAO"!
Arny Krueger belts out his "I'm better than you!" whinefest:
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>
> > On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:32:53 +0000 (UTC), Steven Sullivan
> > > wrote:
> >
> >> paul packer > wrote:
> >>
> >>> Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>>> "Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Wow, so SHP turns out to be another Wile E
> >>>>> Coyote-style *super genius*.
As much as I enjoy the machinations of Mr. Wile E. Coyote, my response
is: "Nah". Just a regular genius. Audio genius, that is. At least as
far as knowing how to produce good sound, and not simply endless reams
of ignorant groundless rubbish opinions, like you Sullivan.
> I'm an informed subjectivist.
Great! So am I. An "informed subjectivist" who spits on everything ABX.
Welcome to the club, Arny!
> I'm easily in the top quartile of all audio
> experts who post on Usenet and the web. I build audio complex gear from
> scratch, do live recording and live sound for fun and profit, and built two
> trend-setting internationally-recognized web sites related to audio
> technology. I'm comfortable and competent specifying and setting up anything
> from a vinyl playback system, to a high quality 2 channel listening system,
> to a multichannel AV system including video projectors, to a 32 channel
> digital recorder, to a 56 channel digital mixer with dozens of mics and
> speaker systems for live sound and recording, to computer systems for high
> quality audio recording, production, listening, or technical measurements.
> I'm also an internationally-recognized authority when it comes to designing
> and performing listening tests.
And despite all that, you still know squat about audio.
> I'm not the best but I'm up there. I have busted a well-known audio magazine
> editor's chops on his own playing field.
Translation: I wet my pants during, lost after, then went home and
cried a lot to my wife.... But I think I did pretty good despite!
> OTOH Paul, you're a naive subjectivist, with hardly any technical knowlege
> at all. You're full of ignorant pride, and can't take being corrected by
> anyone, as you blunder around the world of audio technology with hardly a
> clue.
OTOH, you're a naive "informed subjectivist", and not only full of
ignorant pride, but full of plain old ignorance as well. You have shown
how you can't take being corrected by anyone, roughly a million
times, as you blunder around the world of audio with hardly a clue.
Your technical knowledge of audio is not an indication that you have
any idea as to how to produce quality sound.
> I've tried to help you, and you've wasted an incredible amount of
> energy trying to denegrate (sic) me for my efforts on your behalf.
This is what struck me most about your post. Because I tried to help
YOU, and you wasted an incredible amount of energy trying to denigrate
me for my efforts.
> A natural ally of a almost totally worthless person like you Paul is
> Middius, and you're happy together.
In your case, I figure it'd be Powell or Sullivan.
> You reinforce each other. Middius makes
> you feel like you have worth, even though you just barely deserve to exist
> in the world of audio.
Whereas you DO barely exist in the world of audio. You only exist in
the virtual world of Usenet, along with the other lifetime trolls.
> you need the Usenet
> equivalent of yellow safety tape wrapped around almost every post you make,
> because they represent thinking that is so mislead and misleading.
Absolutely. That described your thinking to a T.
> Oh, and do I believe I'm always right? Not hardly. For example I've recently
> made a technical post that is off by an order of magnitude in the third
> decimal place, IOW it's about 0.9% wrong. Thing is, I was correcting an
> error that was 100% wrong.
Most of your opinions on audio are 100% wrong. You need to recalculate.
>
> Your problem Paul is that you're not even smart enough to make the mistakes
> I make, and you're clearly unable to know what they are or how to correct
> them.
Same could be said about you, from what I've observed. You are
clearly unable to know what your mistaken opinions about audio are and
how to correct them.
> Well, maybe you can correct some of my typos and expeditious syntax.
> So what?
So why do YOU correct the typos and syntax of others?
hypocritically wrote:
> Sander deWaal wrote:
> > dave weil > said:
> Perhaps have your wife remove it at some random time,
> and not tell you. That would eliminate the expectation
> condition. I too, am mystified by your observation.
That's interesting. With him you're "mystified". I tell you the
same thing for 6 and a half weeks, and I'm a "total lunatic". Oh no,
no prejudices and bigotry within you, Westface! LOL!
Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking them,
you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
Walt wrote, without thinking (as usual):
> As I understand the theory from reading the Peter Belt website, knowing
> that it's there is an implicit part or the process.
Figures. You have the cognitive and reading comprehension skills of the
common garden-variety slug. In no way does Belt insist knowledge of his
products or techniques is a necessary part of its function. The
products and techniques work regardless of whether you know they're
there or not; just as with any audio product. I've DBT'd people on
such products and techniques, without them even knowing what the DUT
was.
> Of course, this
> makes it impossible to eliminate the expectation condition through
> testing, but that's not what's important.
I'm sure Arny would LOVE to hear this. Yooohooo, Arny old chap? You
gonna take what this slobbering goon just said about your ABX empire?
> The important thing is that
> Sander is happier when his speakers festooned with a piece of paper with
> five holes in it, an asprin, and a picture of his cat.
No, that is NOT why he's happier, if indeed that's the case. He's
happier because he's enjoying better sound. Thinking is hard for you,
isn't it?
> And who am I to
> try to tell him otherwise?
Right. Certainly had no problem telling ME otherwise, did ya?!
>
> In the immortal words of Benny Hill:
>
> Now if you're feeling miserable, if you're feeling blue,
> Here's a little ditty that'll help to pull you through.
> All the clouds will disappear and the grey skies turn to blue,
> Just stick your finger in your ear and go ting-a-ling-a-loo.
Benny Hill. Figures. That's about your speed, Walt.
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Sander deWaal > wrote:
> > dave weil > said:
>
>
> > >Have you removed the tweak and listened again? And then replaced the
> > >tweak (in the exact same location) and listened again?
>
>
> > No, not yet.
> > I intend to let it stick for a while, as I believe that differences in
> > components are best heard over a longer period of time.
>
>
> > I'll try removing the paper later, to see whether this changes
> > anything.
> > Another possibility might be to try different positions for the paper,
> > but that is, again, for later.
>
> > For now, I'm very satisfied, though also mystified, by the results.
>
>
> Difference reported from sighted listening, what a mystery.
I've tried the 5-pinhole paper tweak under DBT conditions, and had no
problem recognizing the changes. Have you tried it at -all- before
offering us your usual dumb, ignorant, unfounded opinions? Didn't
think so, Dr. Seuss.
___
SHP
- "Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm an idiot?" -
Steven Sullivan
wrote: deviant that he appears to be
> hypocritically wrote:
>
> > Sander deWaal wrote:
> > > dave weil > said:
> > Perhaps have your wife remove it at some random time,
> > and not tell you. That would eliminate the expectation
> > condition. I too, am mystified by your observation.
> That's interesting. With him you're "mystified". I tell you the
> same thing for 6 and a half weeks, and I'm a "total lunatic". Oh
no,
> no prejudices and bigotry within you, Westface! LOL!
> Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking
them,
> you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
> theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
more than just a warm feeling.
If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your not
a "total lunatic".
Your genuinely screwed up person.
I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry against
class and superior intellectual attitudes, and I try to apply
them in a positive way.
I encourage you to continue to babble away, it gives me
something to do in my spare moments, and it certainly is
providing entertainment for others.
You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
others are still laughing at you, not with you.
Walt
April 6th 06, 05:02 AM
wrote:
> Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking them,
> you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
> theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
With all due respect, I don't think you have really explained morphic
resonance. You've given examples of how to apply it, but I don't
think you've really expounded upon the theory. Maybe it doesn't
really matter - who cares why it works as long as it does - but we
can't be expected to "get" morphic resonance if you don't explain it
to us.
BTW, I've got a picture of a platypus with 5 holes in it taped to my
speakers and my system sounds pretty good.
// Walt
Fella, the bitter ex tweak freak wrote:
> Sander deWaal wrote:
>
>
> > What I *do* know, is that you were right about audible changes in the
> > system.
> >
>
> When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
> do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
> listening) for the effects of the "tweak",
It's called "testing", not "search-listening". How far did you get in
school before you took a permanent vacation, Fella? I'm guessing
second grade, am I right?
> it will have just simply worn
> off...
And this is observation is based on how many such tweak experiments
that you've performed? Or could it be you're just pulling this
opinion out of your arse again?
> When that happens you can make another such "device" and stick it on the
> other speaker. And another after the effect of that one wears off. Your
> system will just keep getting better and better at first and then it
> will get back to it's original state some time after, while your
> "tweaks" will mount on top of each other.
Who exactly are -you- to invalidate someone else's experiences, just
because YOU didn't get anywhere with YOUR tweaking?
> Next thing you know you are in
> your closet cutting off labels from your shirts, a frenzied look on your
> face, hair all messed up.
Have you figured out what that shiny, reflective glass in your closet
is for yet?
> A long and winding, endless road, them "tweaks".
And fun, fun, fun, all the way long! As an official member of the
"tweako freako klub", you should know. So where are you now, in your
"endless road", after having tried the L-Shape tweak as you informed
ALL OF US a short while ago?! Are you smearing vaseline on your woofer
cones?
, bubbling up with anger and unhappiness,
wrote:
> You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
> I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
> more than just a warm feeling.
Oh, I see the problem. You have an inherent stupidity problem. I'm
well aware of that about you, actually. So are others. For those who
don't suffer from your mental deficiencies, when you say "I'm
mystified by your observation", it actually means "I'm mystified by
your observation", and not "I'm mystified that the superglue fumes
hadn't given you more than just a warm feeling".
> If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your not
> a "total lunatic".
> Your genuinely screwed up person.
This from the guy who attempted to threaten me with a gun on Usenet. By
the way, do you have any idea what a "contraction" is, westplace?
> I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry against
> class, I don't much care for "darkies".
So you have deep flaws, feelings of inferiority, and you're a racist
prick. Do tell us more, westhate. Fascinating stuff.
> and superior intellectual attitudes,
LOL! I guess they didn't tell you in prison; you have to have a
"superior intellect" to have superior intellectual attitudes. I take it
what you meant was you have "attitudes" toward those with a superior
intellect. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain your obsessive
netstalking of me and subsequent attacks, even though I barely, rarely
pay you any mind.
> You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
> others are still laughing at you, not with you.
It isn't just me laughing, westdaze. A number of us are reading
people like you and laughing our fannies off at your quaint, ignorant
ways. I know that you are a very insecure person, who's total
identity in life is linked to people on an internet newsgroup. Whom,
worthless troll that you are, you can't even call them your "virtual"
friends. However, I'm afraid I don't share your insecurities where
I care about people I don't care about, laughing at or with me.
Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
Walt, crossposting kook troll, wrote:
> wrote:
>
>
> > Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking them,
> > you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
> > theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
Why do you insist on crossposting to your other favorite trolling
hangout, alt.kooks, kook?
> With all due respect, I don't think you have really explained morphic
> resonance. You've given examples of how to apply it, but I don't
> think you've really expounded upon the theory.
With all due respect, and you deserve absolutely none, I have explained
it. If it went over your head, sorry, can't help that. There's no
"morphic resonance for dummies" version just for you.
> Maybe it doesn't
> really matter - who cares why it works as long as it does - but we
> can't be expected to "get" morphic resonance if you don't explain it
> to us.
This isn't for you asshole, but for others who are sincere in
learning new things about audio:
http://www.sheldrake.org/papers/Morphic/morphic_intro.html
> BTW, I've got a picture of a platypus with 5 holes in it taped to my
> speakers and my system sounds pretty good.
Bully for you. Ask me if I care.
Fella
April 6th 06, 08:18 AM
wrote:
> Fella, the bitter ex tweak freak wrote:
>
>
>>Sander deWaal wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>What I *do* know, is that you were right about audible changes in the
>>>system.
>>>
>>
>>When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
>>do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
>>listening) for the effects of the "tweak",
>
>
> It's called "testing", not "search-listening". How far did you get in
> school before you took a permanent vacation, Fella? I'm guessing
> second grade, am I right?
Do you realize that you are talking to engineers, doctors, master of
sciences, etc, this way? Can't you be a little civil?
I know what "testing" means and the phenomenon I call "sech listening"
or "prob listening" is differet, lasts longer, needs a special effort to
be kept up, but always, always wears off.
>
>
>> it will have just simply worn
>>off...
>
>
> And this is observation is based on how many such tweak experiments
> that you've performed?
I messed around with shakti stones in my time. That's as far into the
twilight zone I ever wandered off. Them stones had a profound effect at
first, but it just faded away. But when you put shakti on-lines on top
of graphics accelerator cards and do benchmark tests you measure a
result of %3 to %7 increase in some of the benchmark tests. So they *do*
do something...
> Or could it be you're just pulling this
> opinion out of your arse again?
>
At least I dont pull "tweaks" off my arse like you.
>
> Who exactly are -you- to invalidate someone else's experiences,
I am suggesting as to what will happen, no invalidation. How can
validate or even invalidate anyones experiences?
>>A long and winding, endless road, them "tweaks".
>
>
> And fun, fun, fun, all the way long!
Yes if you have sound as priority. For me music has priority.
> Are you smearing vaseline on your woofer
> cones?
>
You are so ugly you must have been beaten with an ugly stick.
paul packer
April 6th 06, 11:27 AM
On 5 Apr 2006 20:17:00 -0700, wrote:
>Sander deWaal wrote:
>
>> said:
>I'm not sure exactly what size A4 is,
Oops. Don't tell me I know something Mr. Sound doesn't.
>Told ya so! LIke I said, I could tell early on that despite the
>mockery, you were the most open-minded, reasonable, and independently
>minded person on the group (as opposed to the mindless sheep that only
>follow the behaviour and thinking of their peers).
Well, I offered to marry Sander at one point, so often did I agree
with his POV, but unfortunately he's already taken. Do I get brownie
points by intellectual association?
>BTW, It looks like I'm going to have to slightly revise some of my
>findings in my thesis on "The Ignorant Pigs of RAO"!
Don't bother, Mr. Sound. We've got use to the epithets now. We kind of
like them.
wrote:the proof that he's a lying,
manipulative, pitiful, example of humanity, fabricating the
statements of others, proving that his tweaks are made of the
same fictitious nonsense
Skippy's version:
> , bubbling up with anger and unhappiness,
> wrote:
> > You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
> > I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > more than just a warm feeling.
> Oh, I see the problem. You have an inherent stupidity problem. I'm
> well aware of that about you, actually. So are others. For those
who
> don't suffer from your mental deficiencies, when you say "I'm
> mystified by your observation", it actually means "I'm mystified by
> your observation", and not "I'm mystified that the superglue fumes
> hadn't given you more than just a warm feeling".
> > If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your
not
> > a "total lunatic".
> > Your genuinely screwed up person.
>
> This from the guy who attempted to threaten me with a gun on
Usenet. By
> the way, do you have any idea what a "contraction" is, westplace?
> > I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry
against
> > class, I don't much care for "darkies".
> So you have deep flaws, feelings of inferiority, and you're a
racist
> prick. Do tell us more, westhate. Fascinating stuff.
> > and superior intellectual attitudes,
> LOL! I guess they didn't tell you in prison; you have to have a
> "superior intellect" to have superior intellectual attitudes. I
take it
> what you meant was you have "attitudes" toward those with a
superior
> intellect. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain your obsessive
> netstalking of me and subsequent attacks, even though I barely,
rarely
> pay you any mind.
> > You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
> > others are still laughing at you, not with you.
> It isn't just me laughing, westdaze. A number of us are reading
> people like you and laughing our fannies off at your quaint,
ignorant
> ways. I know that you are a very insecure person, who's total
> identity in life is linked to people on an internet newsgroup.
Whom,
> worthless troll that you are, you can't even call them your
"virtual"
> friends. However, I'm afraid I don't share your insecurities where
> I care about people I don't care about, laughing at or with me.
> Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
What I actually wrote:
"You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
more than just a warm feeling.
If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your not
a "total lunatic".
Your genuinely screwed up person.
I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry against
class and superior intellectual attitudes, and I try to apply
them in a positive way.
I encourage you to continue to babble away, it gives me
something to do in my spare moments, and it certainly is
providing entertainment for others.
You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
others are still laughing at you, not with you."
Perfect example of how twisted and manipulative you are
Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever the degenerate
twit you are.
You just can't get past being wrong, the from the time it was trying
to put the gun reference out of contect, out of chronological
order, out of reality, and turn it into an internet threat.
What an idiotic concept to be blunt about it.
The most recent attempt of your manipulation was the inability
to see a rather plain spoof on words.
Your lack of comprehension of a basic variant of
"The Wrath of Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
a lack of pop culture knowlege, and perhaps that your
just some twit, spoofing everyone here.
You'll have a tough time proving otherwise,
Your credibilty is archived so any post can be referenced
for content and chronological relevance.
One lie after another from you, hundreds of posts,
thousand of words, millions of inconvenienced electrons.
Anon E Mouse
April 6th 06, 12:22 PM
On Wed, 5 Apr 2006, Signal wrote:
> [...]
>
> The Benchimol persona was even more deranged. This is like a Benchimol
> on meds.
Benchimol?!? Benchimol is dead. Died the same way Derrida died.
--
Anon E. Mouse
Playing: Tableaux d'une exposition (Moussorgsky)
Alain Lefčvre (piano)
Analekta, 2002
George M. Middius
April 6th 06, 12:32 PM
Shovels reveals another important facet of his "personality".
> > Perhaps have your wife remove it at some random time,
> > and not tell you. That would eliminate the expectation
> > condition. I too, am mystified by your observation.
> That's interesting. With him you're "mystified". I tell you the
> same thing for 6 and a half weeks, and I'm a "total lunatic". Oh no,
> no prejudices and bigotry within you, Westface!
Sorry, but RAO already has a Professional Victim persona. He's been
whining about people hating and conspiring against him for almost 10
years. You'll have a long game of catch-up if you try to take the
Krooborg's title away from him.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
George M. Middius
April 6th 06, 12:36 PM
paul packer said:
> >Middius
> >Middius
> >Middius and Morien
> >Your problem Paul
> Arnie's in full-on attack mode. Who did what to him, and why?
You're right -- this is anomalous for mid-week. Usually it happens on
Sunday and Monday, right after church.
Having trouble at home, Mr. ****? ;-)
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Arny Krueger
April 6th 06, 03:02 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com
> In no way does
> Belt insist knowledge of his products or techniques is a
> necessary part of its function.
> The products and
> techniques work regardless of whether you know they're
> there or not; just as with any audio product. I've DBT'd
> people on such products and techniques, without them even
> knowing what the DUT was.
You're saying that everything Belt recommends will yield positive results in
a DBT?
Where does Belt make this claim?
Fella, shining beacon of the intelligentsia on RAO, wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Fella, the bitter ex tweak freak wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Sander deWaal wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>What I *do* know, is that you were right about audible changes in the
> >>>system.
> >>>
> >>
> >>When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
> >>do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
> >>listening) for the effects of the "tweak",
> >
> >
> > It's called "testing", not "search-listening". How far did you get in
> > school before you took a permanent vacation, Fella? I'm guessing
> > second grade, am I right?
>
> Do you realize that you are talking to engineers, doctors, master of
> sciences, etc, this way?
If you're an engineer, a doctor, or a master of science, then I'm
Jesus of Nazareth. In a group of muddle-headed imbeciles, your degree
of stupidity actually stands out. You are the subjectivist persona of
"nyob", if you understand what that means.
> Can't you be a little civil?
I tried that at the beginning. Didn't work. Those very "doctors,
engineers and master of sciences" you refer to have all written
insulting attack posts towards me and others here; and they do so on a
regular basis. Moreover, as I mentioned in the thesis "Message to the
Ignorant Pigs of RAO", which you were too stupid to read through if
you'll recall, there are no intelligent "engineers, doctors or
masters of sciences (ie. scientists)" on this newsgroup. They have
proven that they are no more intellectually advanced than you, by
following your simple-minded patterns of behaviour. Showing a complete
lack of objectivity, a complete lack of scientific curiousity,
dismissing, mocking and ridiculing ideas they did not research and do
not understand, and revealing themselves to be dogmatic, ignorant
bigots, who make sweeping dismissals over phenomena they have never
tested or been able to refute on theoretical grounds. They're
qualified to be called "ignorant pigs", who are no better than you. And
as a group, you pigs only understand insults, mockery, ridicule,
epithets, vitriol, curses, profanities, derisive remarks, and the like.
It's the language you all speak, and the only language you all
understand and respond to. Therefore, I'll say it again... When in
Rome....
>
> I know what "testing" means and the phenomenon I call "sech listening"
> or "prob listening" is differet, lasts longer, needs a special effort to
> be kept up, but always, always wears off.
First of all, you're losing characters. Stop drooling when you speak
you gap-toothed idiot, that might help. Second of all, stop inventing
audio phenomena that doesn't exist but in your imagination. None of
the effects of my tweaks have ever "worn off on me", dimwit. I will
remind you that you are again talking about things you've never
experienced and don't understand. That makes you an arrogant *******,
and no less ignorant than the glue-eating cretin you're often
mistaken for being.
> >> it will have just simply worn
> >>off...
> >
> > And this is observation is based on how many such tweak experiments
> > that you've performed?
>
> I messed around with shakti stones in my time. That's as far into the
> twilight zone I ever wandered off.
Since the L-Shape tweak makes the Shakti's look like a component
upgrade, I will take that as a tacit admission that you lied about
trying my L-Shape tweak. Don't worry, I knew you were a lying *******
all along!
> Them stones had a profound effect at
> first, but it just faded away.
I think its your brain that just faded away.
> But when you put shakti on-lines on top
> of graphics accelerator cards and do benchmark tests you measure a
> result of %3 to %7 increase in some of the benchmark tests. So they *do*
> do something...
Explain how the on-lines, which are supposed to work by reducing EMI,
are going to affect a graphics card chip to producing faster benchmark
speeds?
> > Or could it be you're just pulling this
> > opinion out of your arse again?
> >
>
> At least I dont pull "tweaks" off my arse like you.
Isn't that where your precious "shakti stones" came from?
>
>
> >
> > Who exactly are -you- to invalidate someone else's experiences,
>
> I am suggesting as to what will happen, no invalidation. How can
> validate or even invalidate anyones experiences?
By denying them their experience, brainstein. By telling someone who
has heard the effects of a tweak, that they haven't (and then
offering an EXTREMELY IGNORANT and unqualified opinion as to why you
ignorantly think that is), this is what you are doing. Why do I have to
explain every little thing to you? Can't you figure out at least one
thing for yourself?
> Yes if you have sound as priority. For me music has priority.
No, arguing and acting stupid has priority for you. I'm sure music is
the last on the list, since you never talk about it.
> > Are you smearing vaseline on your woofer
> > cones?
> >
>
> You are so ugly you must have been beaten with an ugly stick.
.....Which is exactly what I was saying about your abject stupidity. You
try to think of a clever, witty "comeback" response, and this is the
best you can come up with. A line stolen from Alice Walker's novel,
The Color Purple. (Not that I'm saying you actually read the book,
since it's clear you don't read books). A line about as original as
you are clever.
wrote:
> wrote:the proof that he's a lying,
> manipulative, pitiful, example of humanity, fabricating the
> statements of others, proving that his tweaks are made of the
> same fictitious nonsense
>
> Skippy's version:
> > , bubbling up with anger and unhappiness,
> > wrote:
>
> > > You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > more than just a warm feeling.
>
> > Oh, I see the problem. You have an inherent stupidity problem. I'm
> > well aware of that about you, actually. So are others. For those
> who
> > don't suffer from your mental deficiencies, when you say "I'm
> > mystified by your observation", it actually means "I'm mystified by
> > your observation", and not "I'm mystified that the superglue fumes
> > hadn't given you more than just a warm feeling".
>
> > > If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your
> not
> > > a "total lunatic".
> > > Your genuinely screwed up person.
> >
> > This from the guy who attempted to threaten me with a gun on
> Usenet. By
> > the way, do you have any idea what a "contraction" is, westplace?
>
> > > I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry
> against
> > > class, I don't much care for "darkies".
>
> > So you have deep flaws, feelings of inferiority, and you're a
> racist
> > prick. Do tell us more, westhate. Fascinating stuff.
>
> > > and superior intellectual attitudes,
>
> > LOL! I guess they didn't tell you in prison; you have to have a
> > "superior intellect" to have superior intellectual attitudes. I
> take it
> > what you meant was you have "attitudes" toward those with a
> superior
> > intellect. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain your obsessive
> > netstalking of me and subsequent attacks, even though I barely,
> rarely
> > pay you any mind.
>
> > > You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
> > > others are still laughing at you, not with you.
>
> > It isn't just me laughing, westdaze. A number of us are reading
> > people like you and laughing our fannies off at your quaint,
> ignorant
> > ways. I know that you are a very insecure person, who's total
> > identity in life is linked to people on an internet newsgroup.
> Whom,
> > worthless troll that you are, you can't even call them your
> "virtual"
> > friends. However, I'm afraid I don't share your insecurities where
> > I care about people I don't care about, laughing at or with me.
> > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
>
> What I actually wrote:
> "You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
> I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
> more than just a warm feeling.
> If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your not
> a "total lunatic".
> Your genuinely screwed up person.
> I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry against
> class and superior intellectual attitudes, and I try to apply
> them in a positive way.
> I encourage you to continue to babble away, it gives me
> something to do in my spare moments, and it certainly is
> providing entertainment for others.
> You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
> others are still laughing at you, not with you."
>
> Perfect example of how twisted and manipulative you are
> Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever the degenerate
> twit you are.
> You just can't get past being wrong, the from the time it was trying
> to put the gun reference out of contect, out of chronological
> order, out of reality, and turn it into an internet threat.
> What an idiotic concept to be blunt about it.
> The most recent attempt of your manipulation was the inability
> to see a rather plain spoof on words.
> Your lack of comprehension of a basic variant of
> "The Wrath of Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> a lack of pop culture knowlege, and perhaps that your
> just some twit, spoofing everyone here.
> You'll have a tough time proving otherwise,
> Your credibilty is archived so any post can be referenced
> for content and chronological relevance.
> One lie after another from you, hundreds of posts,
> thousand of words, millions of inconvenienced electrons.
Good boy! What a good little doggie you are! Now I'm going to throw
the bone a little farther this time... See if you can go and fetch it
and bring it back to me!
Arny Krueger wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com
>
> > In no way does
> > Belt insist knowledge of his products or techniques is a
> > necessary part of its function.
>
> > The products and
> > techniques work regardless of whether you know they're
> > there or not; just as with any audio product. I've DBT'd
> > people on such products and techniques, without them even
> > knowing what the DUT was.
>
> You're saying that everything Belt recommends will yield positive results in
> a DBT?
>
> Where does Belt make this claim?
Reading comprehension problem, noted.
Arny Krueger
April 6th 06, 04:34 PM
> wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com
>>
>>> In no way does
>>> Belt insist knowledge of his products or techniques is a
>>> necessary part of its function.
>>
>>> The products and
>>> techniques work regardless of whether you know they're
>>> there or not; just as with any audio product. I've DBT'd
>>> people on such products and techniques, without them
>>> even knowing what the DUT was.
>>
>> You're saying that everything Belt recommends will yield
>> positive results in a DBT?
>>
>> Where does Belt make this claim?
>
> Reading comprehension problem, noted
Evasive answer noted.
wrote:again attempting to
obfuscate the reality of his true purpose in the newsgroup
and posting a blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being the
perpetrator / victim identity
> wrote:
>
> > wrote:the proof that he's a lying,
> > manipulative, pitiful, example of humanity, fabricating the
> > statements of others, proving that his tweaks are made of the
> > same fictitious nonsense
> > Skippy's version:
> > > , bubbling up with anger and
unhappiness,
> > > wrote:
> > > > You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > more than just a warm feeling.
> > > Oh, I see the problem. You have an inherent stupidity
problem. I'm
> > > well aware of that about you, actually. So are others. For
those
> > who
> > > don't suffer from your mental deficiencies, when you say "I'm
> > > mystified by your observation", it actually means "I'm
mystified by
> > > your observation", and not "I'm mystified that the superglue
fumes
> > > hadn't given you more than just a warm feeling".
> > > > If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified,
your
> > not a "total lunatic".
> > > > Your genuinely screwed up person.
> > > This from the guy who attempted to threaten me with a gun on
> > Usenet. By
> > > the way, do you have any idea what a "contraction" is,
westplace?
> > > > I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a
bigotry
> > against
> > > > class, I don't much care for "darkies".
> > > So you have deep flaws, feelings of inferiority, and you're
a
> > racist
> > > prick. Do tell us more, westhate. Fascinating stuff.
> > > > and superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > LOL! I guess they didn't tell you in prison; you have to
have a
> > > "superior intellect" to have superior intellectual
attitudes. I
> > take it
> > > what you meant was you have "attitudes" toward those with a
> > superior
> > > intellect. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain your
obsessive
> > > netstalking of me and subsequent attacks, even though I
barely,
> > rarely
> > > pay you any mind.
> > > > You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know
the
> > > > others are still laughing at you, not with you.
> > > It isn't just me laughing, westdaze. A number of us are
reading
> > > people like you and laughing our fannies off at your quaint,
> > ignorant
> > > ways. I know that you are a very insecure person, who's
total
> > > identity in life is linked to people on an internet
newsgroup.
> > Whom,
> > > worthless troll that you are, you can't even call them your
> > "virtual"
> > > friends. However, I'm afraid I don't share your insecurities
where
> > > I care about people I don't care about, laughing at or with
me.
> > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > What I actually wrote:
> > "You have a intuitive comprehension problem.
> > I was mystified that the superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > more than just a warm feeling.
> > If you are actually the individual that R.M. identified, your not
> > a "total lunatic".
> > Your genuinely screwed up person.
> > I'm not a perfect human being, I have prejudices, a bigotry
against
> > class and superior intellectual attitudes, and I try to apply
> > them in a positive way.
> > I encourage you to continue to babble away, it gives me
> > something to do in my spare moments, and it certainly is
> > providing entertainment for others.
> > You laugh, but it is a hollow laughter, because you know the
> > others are still laughing at you, not with you."
> > Perfect example of how twisted and manipulative you are
> > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever the degenerate
> > twit you are.
> > You just can't get past being wrong, the from the time it was
trying
> > to put the gun reference out of contect, out of chronological
> > order, out of reality, and turn it into an internet threat.
> > What an idiotic concept to be blunt about it.
> > The most recent attempt of your manipulation was the inability
> > to see a rather plain spoof on words.
> > Your lack of comprehension of a basic variant of
> > "The Wrath of Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > a lack of pop culture knowlege, and perhaps that your
> > just some twit, spoofing everyone here.
> > You'll have a tough time proving otherwise,
> > Your credibilty is archived so any post can be referenced
> > for content and chronological relevance.
> > One lie after another from you, hundreds of posts,
> > thousand of words, millions of inconvenienced electrons.
> Good boy! What a good little doggie you are! Now I'm going to throw
> the bone a little farther this time... See if you can go and fetch
it
> and bring it back to me!
Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior you are.
Didn't some one compare you to Napoleon?
Kind of tough to type with one hand, eh?
Keep at it, you'll show everyone how right my analysis of you
happens to be.
Walt
April 6th 06, 05:53 PM
wrote:
> Walt wrote:
wrote:
> Why do you insist on crossposting to your other favorite trolling
> hangout, alt.kooks, kook?
Cross post? What cross post?
Whatever are you sputtering about now, Shippy? You're the only one here
that I'm aware of who's crossposted to alt.usenet.kooks. You were also
the first one to bring up the kook awards, trying to award one to
Trevor. I think you have more than a passing familiarity with AUK. Now
don't play dumb.
//Walt
paul packer
April 7th 06, 02:05 AM
On Thu, 06 Apr 2006 19:21:10 +0300, Fella > wrote:
>I've said this before: YOU ARE SINGULARITY SILLY! Blazing hot mid-day
>sun on Mercury silly. You emit more silly in one second than our entire
>galaxy emits in a year. Quasar silly. You are A SILLY TROLL. Nothing
>in our universe can really be this silly; perhaps this is some
>primordial fragment from the original big bang of silly. Some pure
>essence of a silly so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond
>the laws of physics that we know. So yes, in a sense you are well into
>the realm of quantum mechanics and quantum physics, but only in terms of
>being this ULTRA SILLY piece of **** UNEXPLICABLE BY WORDS!
Wow! That's silly!
>Mr. Graham, the next time I am in england, I will pay you a visit.
I don't want to be there. I hate violence.
George M. Middius
April 7th 06, 02:46 AM
paul packer said:
> >Mr. Graham, the next time I am in england, I will pay you a visit.
> I don't want to be there. I hate violence.
More likely, it's a matter of dropping a dime to the men with the white
coats.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Walt wrote:
> wrote:
> > Walt wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Why do you insist on crossposting to your other favorite trolling
> > hangout, alt.kooks, kook?
>
> Cross post? What cross post?
>
> Whatever are you sputtering about now, Shippy? You're the only one here
> that I'm aware of who's crossposted to alt.usenet.kooks. You were also
> the first one to bring up the kook awards, trying to award one to
> Trevor. I think you have more than a passing familiarity with AUK. Now
> don't play dumb.
>
> //Walt
Sputtering is a compliment for what he does the most.
He's off to alt.religion to try and convert new tweak apostles
since he isn't doing so well here.
Now that he's been told the victim role has been given
to a SAG member, and he's a lousy understudy, he's
trying to sell some other group his screenplay.
Actually trying to give it away since it has only
quantum value.
When his parents let him back on the internet,
he'll be back to sputtering here.
Arny Krueger wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >
> >> > wrote in message
> >> oups.com
> >>
> >>> In no way does
> >>> Belt insist knowledge of his products or techniques is a
> >>> necessary part of its function.
> >>
> >>> The products and
> >>> techniques work regardless of whether you know they're
> >>> there or not; just as with any audio product. I've DBT'd
> >>> people on such products and techniques, without them
> >>> even knowing what the DUT was.
> >>
> >> You're saying that everything Belt recommends will yield
> >> positive results in a DBT?
> >>
> >> Where does Belt make this claim?
> >
> > Reading comprehension problem, noted
>
> Evasive answer noted.
Strawman argument, noted.
George M. Middius
April 7th 06, 04:00 AM
Shovels courts the Krooborg.
> > > Reading comprehension problem, noted
> > Evasive answer noted.
> Strawman argument, noted.
Mutual masturbation society noted.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
wrote:
> wrote:again attempting ta
> obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> perpetrator / victim identity
>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > same fictitious nonsense
>
> > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> unhappiness,
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
>
> > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> problem. I'm
> > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> those
> > > who
> > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> mystified by
> > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> fumes
> > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
>
> > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> yo'
> > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
>
> > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > Usenet. By
> > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> westplace?
>
> > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> bigotry
> > > against
> > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
>
> > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> uh
> > > racist
> > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
>
> > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
>
> > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> gots uh
> > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> attitudes. I
> > > take it
> > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > superior
> > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> obsessive
> > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> barely,
> > > rarely
> > > > pay ya any mind.
>
> > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> da
> > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
>
> > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> reading
> > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > ignorant
> > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> total
> > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> newsgroup.
> > > Whom,
> > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > "virtual"
> > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> where
> > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> me.
> > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
>
> > > What I actually wrote:
> > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> against
> > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
>
> > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > twit ya iz.
> > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> trying
> > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
>
>
> > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> it
> > an' bring it back ta me!
>
> Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
you try again in English, please?
wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > wrote:again attempting ta
> > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > perpetrator / victim identity
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > same fictitious nonsense
> >
> > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > unhappiness,
> > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> >
> > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > problem. I'm
> > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > those
> > > > who
> > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > mystified by
> > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > fumes
> > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> >
> > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > yo'
> > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> >
> > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > westplace?
> >
> > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > bigotry
> > > > against
> > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> >
> > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > uh
> > > > racist
> > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> >
> > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> >
> > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > gots uh
> > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > attitudes. I
> > > > take it
> > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > superior
> > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > obsessive
> > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > barely,
> > > > rarely
> > > > > pay ya any mind.
> >
> > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > da
> > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> >
> > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > reading
> > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > ignorant
> > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > total
> > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > newsgroup.
> > > > Whom,
> > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > "virtual"
> > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > where
> > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > me.
> > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> >
> > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > against
> > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> >
> > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > trying
> > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> >
> >
> > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > it
> > > an' bring it back ta me!
> >
> > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
>
>
> Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> you try again in English, please?
Skippy demonstrates that when the bigotry shoe fits,
it's his size.
wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > wrote:again attempting ta
> > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > perpetrator / victim identity
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > same fictitious nonsense
> >
> > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > unhappiness,
> > > > > wrote:
> >
> > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> >
> > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > problem. I'm
> > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > those
> > > > who
> > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > mystified by
> > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > fumes
> > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> >
> > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > yo'
> > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> >
> > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > westplace?
> >
> > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > bigotry
> > > > against
> > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> >
> > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > uh
> > > > racist
> > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> >
> > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> >
> > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > gots uh
> > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > attitudes. I
> > > > take it
> > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > superior
> > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > obsessive
> > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > barely,
> > > > rarely
> > > > > pay ya any mind.
> >
> > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > da
> > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> >
> > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > reading
> > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > ignorant
> > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > total
> > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > newsgroup.
> > > > Whom,
> > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > "virtual"
> > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > where
> > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > me.
> > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> >
> > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > against
> > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> >
> > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > trying
> > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> >
> >
> > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > it
> > > an' bring it back ta me!
> >
> > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
>
>
> Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> you try again in English, please?
This has to be the lame-ist attempt at forging a quoted post
in my name and the most lame example of ghetto talk.
You really need to get an Urban Dictionary.
That didn't even pass for lower case jive.
White trash has more affluence than your showing Skippy.
Fella let out one of the finest hairy ape fits ever seen in RAO's
entire history:
> You should be taken behind the barn and shot in the back of your head,
> forget about "insulting attack posts".
> It's enough to **** the living mother out of you that you puke all this
> **** inside you, isn't it? So don't complain and whine you waste of air.
> you
> crazy, silly, arrogant, nitwitted, pointless, preposterous, puerile,
> ridiculous cocksucker piece of **** mad chihuahua you!
> You puked vile negativity and poison and disgusting putrid polution from
> the very second you stepped onto this arena you sick whore. You are the
> epitapth of human perversion and insanity and you are so incredibly
> silly. I mean rock-hard silly. Dehydrated-rock-hard silly. Silly so
> silly that it goes way beyond the silly we know into a whole different
> dimension of silly. You are trans-silly silly. Meta-silly. Silly
> collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Silly
> gotten so dense that no intellect can escape.
> You are more than that for sure, what prophet, what son of god? That's
> not enough for ****ty shippy here...
> I've said this before: YOU ARE SINGULARITY SILLY! Blazing hot mid-day
> sun on Mercury silly. You emit more silly in one second than our entire
> galaxy emits in a year. Quasar silly. You are A SILLY TROLL. Nothing
> in our universe can really be this silly; perhaps this is some
> primordial fragment from the original big bang of silly. Some pure
> essence of a silly so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond
> the laws of physics that we know. So yes, in a sense you are well into
> the realm of quantum mechanics and quantum physics, but only in terms of
> being this ULTRA SILLY piece of **** UNEXPLICABLE BY WORDS!
Damn. You just gave the finest kook rant I have ever seen anyone give
on this group. You really are an unhappy and violently angry little
doggie, aren't you? Why is that, Pooches?
> In a group of muddle-headed imbeciles, your degree
> > of stupidity actually stands out.
>
> Yeah, I'll take your trustworthy, impartial word for it.
Hey, I'm sure I'm not telling you anything your mother didn't
already tell you.
> > That makes you an arrogant *******,
>
> Yeah, *I* am the arrogant *******, sure.
Isn't that what I just said, Pega?
> L shape tweak my foot!
You L-shape tweaked your foot? How did that work out for you? Did it
make you a happier, calmer, less angry sack of crap?
> Listen you fool, you DO NOT tweak anything by
> painting some L shape on a piece of paper, you DO NOT tweak anything by
> pinning pinhole on papers and **** like that, you DO NOT tweak any AUDIO
> EQUIPMENT DUH!!!!!!!!! by cutting off labels from clothing garments
How would you know, you've never met me? It just so happens I do all
these things and more. You must really get sick of being wrong all the
time, Fella-Pega-Troll.
> > Explain how the on-lines, which are supposed to work by reducing EMI,
> > are going to affect a graphics card chip to producing faster benchmark
> > speeds?
>
> You first explain
You want me to explain your silly, ridiculous claim? You are the one
who made it, and made it first.
> you silly chihuahua charlatan.
You're trying to sell us Shakti stones, claiming they make your
graphics card go faster, and you somehow think calling me a "silly
chihauhau charlatan" means something? ROTFLMAO!!
> Mr. Graham, the next time I am in england, I will pay you a visit.
Is that so. What do you think the chances of you rolling your fat lazy
arse out of bed and ever squeezing through the door are?
Walt
April 7th 06, 04:53 AM
wrote:
> Walt wrote:
wrote:
<crap snipped>
>>Whatever are you sputtering about now, Shippy?
>
> Sputtering is a compliment for what he does the most.
> When his parents let him back on the internet,
> he'll be back to sputtering here.
Skippy. Now that's a good moniker. "Skippy the Bush Kangaroo".
I think it fits.
// Walt
Walt
April 7th 06, 05:14 AM
wrote:
> Walt wrote:
wrote:
>>>Walt wrote:
wrote:
>>
>>>Why do you insist on crossposting to your other favorite trolling
>>>hangout, alt.kooks, kook?
>>
>>Cross post? What cross post?
>>
>>Whatever are you sputtering about now, Shippy? You're the only one here
>>that I'm aware of who's crossposted to alt.usenet.kooks. You were also
>>the first one to bring up the kook awards, trying to award one to
>>Trevor. I think you have more than a passing familiarity with AUK. Now
>>don't play dumb.
>
> Now, don't play dumb, Walt. Oh sorry. In your case, it's not
> playing, is it?:
What are you bloviating about now Shippy?
You accused me of crossposting to AUK. I did no such thing - go read
the group and you'll see that there aren't any posts from me. There
are several from you, however. Are you really so delusional that
you've forgotten posting there? Do you make a habit of accusing other
people of things you do yourself?
// Walt
Fella
April 7th 06, 10:11 AM
wrote:
>
> Damn. You just gave the finest documentation of what I am all about that I have ever seen anyone give
> on this group.
On top of being a 45 year old whore of a worn out asshole chihuahua you
are also a masochist, I see.
> You really are an unhappy
Observations of a chihuahua. :) That "tweaks" his plastic bookshelf
speakers by drawing L shapes on pieces of paper. :) That goes around
cutting off clothing labels in hope of "tweaking" his piece of **** junk
stereo that it might be able to make sound remotely resembling music. :)
Oh how sad, dejected and dreadful creature you must be that you can't
afford a decent stereo to listen to music. :)
>
>>Listen you fool, you DO NOT tweak anything by
>>painting some L shape on a piece of paper, you DO NOT tweak anything by
>>pinning pinhole on papers and **** like that, you DO NOT tweak any AUDIO
>>EQUIPMENT DUH!!!!!!!!! by cutting off labels from clothing garments
>
>
> How would you know, you've never met me?
Yeah, keep pushing your luck.
> It just so happens I do all
> these things and more.
I know you do, you simpleton of an idiot. You do all those dimwit,
mental masturbation idiotic rituals because you are a dimwit idiot.
Learn some english you ignorant ignoramus worn-out backdoor cocsucker
whore of a ****. That you go around idiotically cutting off clothing
labels *does not* result in your piece of junk aiwa mini stereo being
"tweaked". There is no relation between the two you silly, cross-eyed,
cum-drool nincompoop whore. Hence the : "you DO NOT tweak anything by
painting some L shape on a piece of paper" .. All you end up with is a
piece of paper with an L shape painted on it you silly kook. You can
fool yourself to believe your own lies (and people supporting a form of
the pollyanna syndrome, perhaps) but the buck stops just about there.
>
>
>>>Explain how the on-lines, which are supposed to work by reducing EMI,
>>>are going to affect a graphics card chip to producing faster benchmark
>>>speeds?
>>
>>You first explain the "cream-electret"
>
>
> You want me to explain your silly, ridiculous claim?
Being an idiotic whore/charlatan you must have forgotten, or you are in
denial, that that "cream-electret" criminal fraud banana oil,
cock-and-bull story, con job, is *your* "product" with which you deceit
people out of their money you disgusting crook, you lowlife, scoundrel,
swindler thief.
> You are the one
> who made it, and made it first.
>
You have the credibility of soundhasprio.. oh wait, you *are*
soundhadpriority! Nuff said.
>
>
>>Mr. Graham, the next time I am in england, I will pay you a visit.
>
>
> Is that so.
Yup. That is very much so.
wrote:
> only begins to realize his netstalking
> obsession with me:
>
> > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > > > perpetrator / victim identity
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
> > > >
> > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > >
> > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > > > those
> > > > > > who
> > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > > > fumes
> > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> > > >
> > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > > > yo'
> > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > >
> > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > > > westplace?
> > > >
> > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > > > bigotry
> > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> > > >
> > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > > > uh
> > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > >
> > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > > > barely,
> > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
> > > >
> > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > > > da
> > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> > > >
> > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > > > reading
> > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > > > total
> > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > > > where
> > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > > > me.
> > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > > >
> > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > against
> > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> > > >
> > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > > > trying
> > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > > > it
> > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
> > > >
> > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> > > you try again in English, please?
> >
> > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted post
> > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto jive.
> > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy. what 'chew thinking man?
>
> Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a completely different
> response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after jumping on
> my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your average
> time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the matter, was
> the first response not stupid enough for you?
>
> What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to get a
> computer into your prison cell, Westface?
Wow, your math acumen is just as sharp as the body of posts
that you've littered the newsgroup with.
Why don't you show us your work on that averages calculation
Mr. Math?
You seem concerned that there isn't enough stupidity for you.
Your childish mocking by turning a possible concept of why
your behavior is what it is demonstrates your own lack of
creativity and original thought.
Now allow me to mock you:
Perhaps your wife smuggled it in when she was having
her conjugal visit with me ( she lied to the guards because she
needed a real man ).
Walt
April 7th 06, 03:56 PM
wrote:
> Go and show me
> any one of my posts that looks more like a hairy ape fit than what I
> have shown of Fella's.
Scroll up to the first post in this thread. QED.
>Go on now, little Walter.
Little Walter? Awsome blues harmorica player from the 50s. Not sure
what that has to do with me, though.
> Why are you crossposting to: alt.fan.karl-malden.nose, kook? Are you
> that big a fan of Karl Malden's nose?
I am not crossposting to alt.fan.karl-malden.nose. Do you even know
what crossposting is? From your rantings, I think the answer is no.
(hint: a followup is not a crosspost. If I tell you to go jump in the
lake, that doesn't mean I'm standing in a lake myself. Sheesh - do I
have to explain *everything* to you?)
//Walt
Fella is having a major MAJOR meltdown. Let's stand back and watch
the fun!:
> wrote:
>
> > Damn. You just gave the finest documentation of what I am all about that I have ever seen anyone give
> > on this group.
>
>
> On top of being a 45 year old whore of a worn out asshole chihuahua you
> are also a masochist, I see.
There are those impeccable language skills and rapier wit again, that
made your reputation on this group. How do you manage to spew out
endless streams of vitriolic consciousness peppered by crude epithets
and yet stay so fit and trim, Fella? You didn't understand a word I
just said, did you? How did I know? The blank stare on your face and
the fact that half your shirttail is hanging outside your baggy
trousers and you have chocolate dripping down your face and on to your
white shirt, kind of left me with that impression.
You're a very, very rabid little doggie. Why are you so angry, Fella?
Did your mother wash your welfare check in the laundry before you could
get your fat little paws on it? Did she throw out your old porno
magazines, after giving you a lecture about the "Sins of Man"? Did you
crush your plastic rimmed glasses under the wheels of your bicycle on
your way to the garbage dump to look for new speakers for your hifi
system? Did someone forget to fill your feed bowl, little Pooches?
> That "tweaks" his plastic bookshelf
> speakers by drawing L shapes on pieces of paper. :)
I never said I drew L-shapes on my speakers (nor did I say I had
"plastic bookshelf speakers" either). However, the FACTS are, that you
actually stated, as you told all of us here, you thought that drawing
funny L-shapes on your CD was going to make your CD sound better! Haw!
No kidding you're such an angry little chihauhau! You're a totally
humiliated, miserable creature! How silly do you have to be to think
drawing an L with a green pen is going to do something other than make
you look silly, you silly, silly angry, angry doggie, you?
> That goes around
> cutting off clothing labels in hope of "tweaking" his piece of **** junk
> stereo that it might be able to make sound remotely resembling music. :)
> Oh how sad, dejected and dreadful creature you must be that you can't
> afford a decent stereo to listen to music. :)
You really do think that if you put little smiley faces next to the end
of all your sentences, it turns them into clever little witticisms,
don't you? You know what I find so sad and dreadful? That you were
actually laughing at how funny and clever you think you are being here!
I happen to know that my DAC alone costs more than your entire av
system, but I don't need to make you feel bad about whatever crap
stereo your mother handed down to you and that you were able to salvage
from parts found in a rubbish heap. Unlike you, I'm not a bundle of
insecurities (which is what propels you to keep responding to my trolls
toward you, like an angry doggie looking for a bone). That's because
I know that I'm superior to you in many ways: I'm richer than you,
I'm smarter than you, I'm more creative than you, I'm more
successful than you in every way (including in my literary jousts with
a clown like you), I'm more fit and stronger than you, I'm better
looking than you, and my worst hifi system (I forgot to mention, I also
have several more av systems than you), sounds better than the best
system you've ever owned in your entire, tragic, sad, humiliated,
angry life. I also know a *lot* more about audio than you, but that
goes without saying.
> >>Listen you fool, you DO NOT tweak anything by
> >>painting some L shape on a piece of paper, you DO NOT tweak anything by
> >>pinning pinhole on papers and **** like that, you DO NOT tweak any AUDIO
> >>EQUIPMENT DUH!!!!!!!!! by cutting off labels from clothing garments
> >
> >
> > How would you know, you've never met me?
>
> Yeah, keep pushing your luck.
Excuse me? Exactly how attached are you to your testes, Fella? You keep
threatening me like that, and we're gonna find out.
> > It just so happens I do all
> > these things and more.
>
> I know you do, you simpleton of an idiot. You do all those dimwit,
> mental masturbation idiotic rituals because you are a dimwit idiot.
ROTFLMAO!!! The angrier you get little doggie, the -funnier- you get!
You know what makes it even funnier? The irony. The irony of you, a
pure cretin who reads and writes at a 4th grade level and can only spew
profane verbiage, who besides nyob is one of the stupidest people
I've ever encountered on Usenet (and I don't see anyone here
defending your intelligence, do you?!), talking to me about "idiotic
masturbation rituals". Because, let us not forget, YOU are the one who
drew funny little Lshapes on your CDs, hoping to improve their sound
quality! Having a heap of garbage for a stereo system, I can undersand
why you were -that- desparate to improve your sound. What I can't
understand, is how you can sit there and accuse others of doing what
you just did?! Of course, your infinite stupidity does neatly explain
that, actually.
Fella's English lesson for the day:
> Learn some english you ignorant ignoramus worn-out backdoor cocsucker
> whore of a ****.
ROTFLMAO!!! If you weren't such a self-parody of everything you say
to me, you would not be half as funny as you are, you violently insane
rabid little doggie boy, you.
That you go around idiotically cutting off clothing
> labels *does not* result in your piece of junk aiwa mini stereo being
> "tweaked".
You go around shoving your foot in your mouth at every opportunity you
get, ignorantly criticising things you've never seen, done or know
about. Do you think this results in you having an opinion that is worth
more than spitting upon, you petulant, whining imbecile?
> There is no relation between the two you silly, cross-eyed,
> cum-drool nincompoop whore. Hence the : "you DO NOT tweak anything by
> painting some L shape on a piece of paper"
Right. I don't. But YOU did. LOL! Do you forget what you just said on
April the 2nd?:
<------------------------------------------------------------
Fella wrote:
"Well I did try his L shape thingy. I felt quite silly indeed. "
<------------------------------------------------------------
Indeed! I can really FEEL your humiliation in all this major hostile
anger you have, Fella!
> piece of paper with an L shape painted on it you silly kook.
So basically, you hate yourself. You just called yourself a "silly
kook", as well as a "cross-eyed cum-droll nincompoop whore" for
having tried the Lshape. That explains a lot your misplaced agression
and anger, my little chihuahua doggie.
> You can
> fool yourself to believe your own lies (and people supporting a form of
> the pollyanna syndrome, perhaps) but the buck stops just about there.
I noticed you said "just about". Are you forgetting the fact that
someone here did try my tweaks, someone smart enough to actually
implement them correctly (unlike you, you bug-eating retard), and heard
the differences it made? No, the evidence you've presented here is
that YOU are believing YOUR own lies, with which you fool yourself. As
you yourself stated on April 2, you were motivated by "greed" to trying
my L-shape tweak. Maybe that was your downfall. Your "greed and
stupidity". You're just too much of a cheap and impoverished *******
to spend money on your stereo, and so you thought my Lshape would be
the thing of your cheap-ass dreams, you miserly little doggie. Sorry if
your own greed and stupidity fooled you.
> >>>Explain how the on-lines, which are supposed to work by reducing EMI,
> >>>are going to affect a graphics card chip to producing faster benchmark
> >>>speeds?
> >>
> >>You first explain the "cream-electret"
> >
> >
> > You want me to explain your silly, ridiculous claim?
>
> Being an idiotic whore/charlatan you must have forgotten, or you are in
> denial, that that "cream-electret" criminal fraud banana oil,
> cock-and-bull story, con job, is *your* "product" with which you deceit
> people out of their money you disgusting crook, you lowlife, scoundrel,
> swindler thief.
Are these the "English lessons" you promised me? Have we started yet,
or are you waiting until you have thoroughly murdered the Queen's
English, with phrases like "with which you deceit (sic) people" before
you begin sharing your masterful literary skills with the rest of RAO
and the world? I'm sorry for having called you a "bug-eating retard".
That doesn't even begin to describe the depths of your stupidity,
Fella/Pega, and whatever other sockpuppets you inhabit, you little
foul-mouthed criminal.
> > You are the one
> > who made it, and made it first.
> You have the credibility of soundhasprio.. oh wait, you *are*
> soundhadpriority! Nuff said.
No, "Nuff" hasn't been said. What does my credibility have anything
to do with your outrageously silly claim that Shakti stones can speed
up your computer's graphics card? You still didn't back up that
insane claim with anything but bluster and fart sounds.
> > Is that so.
>
> Yup. That is very much so.
<yawn> If you ever manage to gather up enough people to squeeze your
fat bloated newsgroup-addicted ass out your doorway, and if you ever
succeed at taking up a collection or more likely, stealing enough money
to get that fat bloated ass of yours on to a plane (assuming you
don't lose your way on the way to the airport), and if you manage to
find an airline that will allow you to buy two seats next to each other
to park that fat bloated ass of yours on said plane, and you manage to
squeeze said fat bloated ass into a cab to get to my place, you can
find me at this address:
9a Marden Road
London
Remember that in the "real world", which you know little of, you're
no longer a sockpuppet troll. You will feel a different kind of pain,
than the pain I have already given you. I'll humiliate you in public
before my peers, even far more than I humiliated you in public on
Usenet before your peers. Now don't forget to give me YOUR address,
in case you fail to show. Which since you are a lying, posturing,
cowardly little lowlife twit with a big mouth when it is safely tucked
in a large chair behind a computer monitor, is more than 100%
guaranteed.
Tell me again little doggie, what happened when you drew L-shapes on
your stereo system? LOL!
Fella, looking for all the world like a dumb angry doggie, comes back
for more abuse:
> wrote:
>
> You are more than that for sure, what prophet, what son of god? That's
> not enough for ****ty shippy here... He who has mastered quantum
> mechanics... So much so that concocts animal picture paper pinhole
> tweaks from wherein. :)
Note to Fella / Pega:
The word you're struggling to think of, you stupid mongrel, is
"within". "Wherein", turns your statement into a question. I realize
that you're far too much of a drooling imbecile to realize what you
just said, but translated into something that perhaps your 2nd grade
English skills can understand, means:
"So much so that concocts animal picture paper pinhole tweaks from in
which location". :)
Fella, Pega, anonymous asshole.... why do you _insist_ on making such a
grandiose fool of yourself by attempting to spar with me? Frankly,
I've gone beyond humiliating you and feeling sorry for you now. No
one that I can recall ever coming up against here has ever made such a
fool out of himself as you have. I've never humiliated anyone on this
group as much as I have you. Frankly, it's getting a little sickening
to watch you do this to yourself. You are really REALLY bad at coming
up with clever personal attacks to swat me with, and you're clearly
struggling so hard at the edges of your very limited education, that
you're inventing new definitions for words because you're too
stupid to know the proper ones. I'm afraid you just don't have the
smarts, son. If I were you, I'd quit while you are behind. But if you
want to insist on continuing to make such a fool out of yourself, at
least be assured that you are providing many people with many laughs at
your expense.
> You puked vile negativity and poison and disgusting putrid polution from
> the very second you stepped onto this arena you sick whore. You are the
> epitapth of human perversion and insanity and you are so incredibly
> silly. I mean rock-hard silly. Dehydrated-rock-hard silly. Silly so
> silly that it goes way beyond the silly we know into a whole different
> dimension of silly. You are trans-silly silly. Meta-silly. Silly
> collapsed on itself so far that even the neutrons have collapsed. Silly
> gotten so dense that no intellect can escape.
>
> I've said this before: YOU ARE SINGULARITY SILLY! Blazing hot mid-day
> sun on Mercury silly. You emit more silly in one second than our entire
> galaxy emits in a year. Quasar silly. You are A SILLY TROLL. Nothing
> in our universe can really be this silly; perhaps this is some
> primordial fragment from the original big bang of silly. Some pure
> essence of a silly so uncontaminated by anything else as to be beyond
> the laws of physics that we know. So yes, in a sense you are well into
> the realm of quantum mechanics and quantum physics, but only in terms of
> being this ULTRA SILLY piece of **** UNEXPLICABLE BY WORDS!
So how silly is that, then? Is it as silly as you trying to draw
L-shapes on your CDs, just because you're too cheap and poor to buy
new equipment, and because I told you it would improve your sound?
Which begs the question... if you are too poor and cheap to fly to
London, and I told you that you can fly if you take a running leap off
of a building, wearing a red cardigan... how dead would you be at this
moment do ya figure?
> Those very "doctors,
> > engineers and master of sciences" you refer to have all written
> > insulting attack posts
>
> You should be taken behind the barn and shot in the back of your head,
> forget about "insulting attack posts".
Now, now little doggie... Can't you be civil? You do already realize
you're talking to a doctor. And what was it you said to me in this
response?
Fella:
"Can't you be civil? Do you realize you are talking to doctors,
engineers, masters of science...etc".
> > First of all, you're losing characters.
>
> It's enough to **** the living mother out of you that you puke all this
> **** inside you, isn't it? So don't complain and whine you waste of air.
Do you talk to yourself like that often? I'm sure it must be
therapeutic for you. However, it does not seem to make you any less
insane, unhappy or deeply angered.
> > That makes you an arrogant *******,
>
> Yeah, *I* am the arrogant *******, sure.
At least we agree on something.
> > Since the L-Shape tweak
>
> L shape tweak my foot! Listen you fool, you DO NOT tweak anything by
> painting some L shape on a piece of paper, you DO NOT tweak anything by
> pinning pinhole on papers and **** like that, you DO NOT tweak any AUDIO
> EQUIPMENT DUH!!!!!!!!! by cutting off labels from clothing garments you
> crazy, silly, arrogant, nitwitted, pointless, preposterous, puerile,
> ridiculous cocksucker piece of **** mad chihuahua you!
You did. Remember the L-shape tweak you applied to your cds and your
audio system? Did I mention that if you apply the Lshape tweak to your
forehead, it makes your smarter and less angry? Just try it! You
already tried it on the rest of your system, what have you got to lose,
Skippy?
> WOW! Look at the WIT the high level philosophy, the QUANTUM MECHANICS of
> that REMARK! :)
A knock about the head would be wittier than anything you've ever had
to say to me, my little rabid chihauhau.
> >>But when you put shakti on-lines on top
> >>of graphics accelerator cards and do benchmark tests you measure a
> >>result of %3 to %7 increase in some of the benchmark tests. So they *do*
> >>do something...
> >
> > Explain how the on-lines, which are supposed to work by reducing EMI,
> > are going to affect a graphics card chip to producing faster benchmark
> > speeds?
>
> You first explain that "cream-electret" (amongst others, LOL!) you silly
> chihuahua charlatan.
Copout noted. You're obviously a bitter tweak freak, you make all
kinds of silly claims like "shakti stones can accelerate a graphics
card chip!" and then you get hostile at others for YOUR insane, silly
claims. What a funny angry doggie you are! Beg for some more fixins,
little doggie.
>
> Mr. Graham, the next time I am in england, I will pay you a visit.
I'm still waiting for you to supply your proper home address, so I
can teach you some "Southpaw grammar".
wrote:
> wrote:
> > only begins to realize his netstalking
> > obsession with me:
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > > > > perpetrator / victim identity
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > > > > those
> > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > > > > fumes
> > > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > > > > yo'
> > > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > > > > westplace?
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > > > > bigotry
> > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > > > > uh
> > > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > > > > barely,
> > > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > > > > da
> > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > > > > total
> > > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > > against
> > > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > > > > trying
> > > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > > > > it
> > > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
> > > > >
> > > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> > > > you try again in English, please?
> > >
> > > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted post
> > > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto jive.
> > > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy. what 'chew thinking man?
> >
> > Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a completely different
> > response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after jumping on
> > my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your average
> > time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the matter, was
> > the first response not stupid enough for you?
> >
> > What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to get a
> > computer into your prison cell, Westface?
>> Wow, ya'lls math acumen iz just as sharp as da body o' posts
> that you've littered da newsgroup with.
> Why don't ya'll show us ya'lls work on that averages calculation
> Mr. Math?
> ya'll seem concerned that there iz no way enough stupidity fo' ya'll.
> ya'lls childish mocking by turning a possible concept o' why
> ya'lls behavior iz wa'tch da thang iz demonstrates ya'lls own lack of
> creativity an' original thought.
> Now allow me ta mock you:
> Perhaps ya'lls wife smuggled da thang in when da bitch waz having
> da bitch's conjugal visit with me ( da bitch lied ta da guards because she
> needed a real nigga ).
I'm sorry Westface, I'm still having trouble understanding you.
What part of the ghetto did you say you were from?
Fella
April 7th 06, 06:35 PM
wrote:
> I'm still waiting for you to supply your proper home address, so I
> can teach you some "Southpaw grammar".
>
You don't need my address, I've got yours, its enough.
Fella chickening out of his own threats, wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > I'm still waiting for you to supply your proper home address, so I
> > can teach you some "Southpaw grammar".
> >
>
> You don't need my address, I've got yours, its enough.
No it isn't. It'll be a cold day in hell before you ever show up,
you little puke. If you're not the coward I say you are, then after I
had no problems posting mine, post YOUR address. That way, when you
don't ever back up your phony-ass bluster and bravado, maybe if I'm
ever out your way, I will show up on your doorstep and leave you no
choice but to answer for your violent threats toward me.
Or is it all you can do to bark at me like a rabid little chihuahua
whlie safely tucked behind your mother's computer, and pretend to be
a brave mean doggie? I give you one smack on your wet little nose, and
we'll have no problem finding out what kind of a mongrel you are.
Fella
April 7th 06, 07:28 PM
wrote:
> Fella chickening out of his own threats, wrote:
>
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm still waiting for you to supply your proper home address, so I
>>>can teach you some "Southpaw grammar".
>>>
>>
>>You don't need my address, I've got yours, its enough.
>
>
> No it isn't. It'll be a cold day in hell before you ever show up,
All in due time.
Goofball_star_dot_etal
April 7th 06, 07:28 PM
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 05:24:49 +0100, Signal > wrote:
> This is like a Benchimol on meds.
You spoke too soon.
wrote:
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > only begins to realize his netstalking
> > > obsession with me:
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > > > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > > > > > perpetrator / victim identity
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > > > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > > > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > > > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > > > > > fumes
> > > > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > > > > > yo'
> > > > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > > > > > westplace?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > > > > > bigotry
> > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > > > > > uh
> > > > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > > > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > > > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > > > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > > > > > barely,
> > > > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > > > > > total
> > > > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > > > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > > > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> > > > > you try again in English, please?
> > > >
> > > > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted post
> > > > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto jive.
> > > > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > > > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > > > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy. what 'chew thinking man?
> > >
> > > Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a completely different
> > > response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after jumping on
> > > my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your average
> > > time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the matter, was
> > > the first response not stupid enough for you?
> > >
> > > What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to get a
> > > computer into your prison cell, Westface?
>
> >> Wow, ya'lls math acumen iz just as sharp as da body o' posts
> > that you've littered da newsgroup with.
> > Why don't ya'll show us ya'lls work on that averages calculation
> > Mr. Math?
> > ya'll seem concerned that there iz no way enough stupidity fo' ya'll.
> > ya'lls childish mocking by turning a possible concept o' why
> > ya'lls behavior iz wa'tch da thang iz demonstrates ya'lls own lack of
> > creativity an' original thought.
> > Now allow me ta mock you:
> > Perhaps ya'lls wife smuggled da thang in when da bitch waz having
> > da bitch's conjugal visit with me ( da bitch lied ta da guards because she
> > needed a real nigga ).
>
> I'm sorry Westface, I'm still having trouble understanding you.
> What part of the ghetto did you say you were from?
So your my bitch now.
wrote:
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > only begins to realize his netstalking
> > > obsession with me:
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > > > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > > > > > perpetrator / victim identity
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > > > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > > > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > > > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > > > > > fumes
> > > > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > > > > > yo'
> > > > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > > > > > westplace?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > > > > > bigotry
> > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > > > > > uh
> > > > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > > > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > > > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > > > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > > > > > barely,
> > > > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > > > > > total
> > > > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > > > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > > > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> > > > > you try again in English, please?
> > > >
> > > > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted post
> > > > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto jive.
> > > > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > > > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > > > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy. what 'chew thinking man?
> > >
> > > Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a completely different
> > > response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after jumping on
> > > my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your average
> > > time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the matter, was
> > > the first response not stupid enough for you?
> > >
> > > What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to get a
> > > computer into your prison cell, Westface?
>
> >> Wow, ya'lls math acumen iz just as sharp as da body o' posts
> > that you've littered da newsgroup with.
> > Why don't ya'll show us ya'lls work on that averages calculation
> > Mr. Math?
> > ya'll seem concerned that there iz no way enough stupidity fo' ya'll.
> > ya'lls childish mocking by turning a possible concept o' why
> > ya'lls behavior iz wa'tch da thang iz demonstrates ya'lls own lack of
> > creativity an' original thought.
> > Now allow me ta mock you:
> > Perhaps ya'lls wife smuggled da thang in when da bitch waz having
> > da bitch's conjugal visit with me ( da bitch lied ta da guards because she
> > needed a real nigga ).
>
> I'm sorry Westface, I'm still having trouble understanding you.
> What part of the ghetto did you say you were from?
This is actually pretty funny, pathetic but funny.
You forge a post allegedly composed by me
and then reply to it several times.
That's talking to yourself.
Time to take some meds, and get a new diagnosis.
Your credibillity index is slipping into negative numbers
Mr. Math.
Quantum physics won't explain away that one.
Walt
April 7th 06, 08:17 PM
posted to
rec.audio.opinion,
alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
alt.fan.madonna,
alt.usenet.kooks:
< a bunch of irrelevant crap>
So who's the cross posting kook now, eh?
//Walt
wrote:
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > > > only begins to realize his netstalking
> > > > obsession with me:
> > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da newsgroup
> > > > > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating being da
> > > > > > > perpetrator / victim identity
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:the proof dat he'suh lying,
> > > > > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity, fabricating da
> > > > > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz made o' da
> > > > > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff anger an'
> > > > > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent stupidity
> > > > > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz others. For
> > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means "I'm
> > > > > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da superglue
> > > > > > > fumes
> > > > > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified,
> > > > > > > yo'
> > > > > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh "contraction" iz,
> > > > > > > westplace?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh
> > > > > > > bigotry
> > > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority, an' you
> > > > > > > uh
> > > > > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating sheeit.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya gots ta
> > > > > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior intellectual
> > > > > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward those wiff uh
> > > > > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly explain yo'
> > > > > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even though I
> > > > > > > barely,
> > > > > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know
> > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number o' us iz
> > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at yo' quaint,
> > > > > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person, who's
> > > > > > > total
> > > > > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an internet
> > > > > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page dem yo'
> > > > > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo' insecurities
> > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing at or wiff
> > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't given him
> > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M. identified, yo' not
> > > > > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I try ta apply
> > > > > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it gives me
> > > > > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments, an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya know da
> > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative ya iz
> > > > > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da degenerate
> > > > > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da tyme it wuz
> > > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o' chronological
> > > > > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an internet threat.
> > > > > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da inability
> > > > > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat yo'
> > > > > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be referenced
> > > > > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced electrons.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz! Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya can jet an' fetch
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma ****in analysis o' ya
> > > > > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just said. Could
> > > > > > you try again in English, please?
> > > > >
> > > > > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted post
> > > > > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto jive.
> > > > > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > > > > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > > > > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy. what 'chew thinking man?
> > > >
> > > > Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a completely different
> > > > response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after jumping on
> > > > my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your average
> > > > time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the matter, was
> > > > the first response not stupid enough for you?
> > > >
> > > > What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to get a
> > > > computer into your prison cell, Westface?
> >
> > >> Wow, ya'lls math acumen iz just as sharp as da body o' posts
> > > that you've littered da newsgroup with.
> > > Why don't ya'll show us ya'lls work on that averages calculation
> > > Mr. Math?
> > > ya'll seem concerned that there iz no way enough stupidity fo' ya'll.
> > > ya'lls childish mocking by turning a possible concept o' why
> > > ya'lls behavior iz wa'tch da thang iz demonstrates ya'lls own lack of
> > > creativity an' original thought.
> > > Now allow me ta mock you:
> > > Perhaps ya'lls wife smuggled da thang in when da bitch waz having
> > > da bitch's conjugal visit with me ( da bitch lied ta da guards because she
> > > needed a real nigga ).
> >
> > I'm sorry Westface, I'm still having trouble understanding you.
> > What part of the ghetto did you say you were from?
>
> This iz actually pretty funny, pathetic but funny.
> ya'll forge a post allegedly composed by me
> an' then reply ta da thang several times.
> That's talking ta yourself.
> Time ta take some meds, an' get a new diagnosis.
> ya'lls credibillity index iz slipping into negative numbers
> Mr. Math.
What do you mean.... "the white part"?
Walt
April 7th 06, 09:27 PM
wrote:
> Walt the cross posting net kook troll wrote:
posted to
>>rec.audio.opinion,
>>alt.fan.karl-malden.nose,
>>alt.fan.madonna,
>>alt.usenet.kooks:
>>
>>< a bunch of irrelevant crap>
>>
>>So who's the cross posting kook now, eh?
>
> You still are the one and only crossposting kook on this group. I never
> crossposted anything.
Crossposts != Followups. Sigh. I might explain it to you, but I'd
probably be more successful teaching the Nimzo-Indian defence to a spoon.
Anyway, have a nice weekend. I've got something called a "life" that's
calling. You might try getting one of these.
//Walt
wrote:
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > only begins to realize his
netstalking
> > > > > obsession with me
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > > > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da
newsgroup
> > > > > > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating
being da
> > > > > > > > perpetrator / victim identity
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:the proof dat
he'suh lying,
> > > > > > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity,
fabricating da
> > > > > > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz
made o' da
> > > > > > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
> > > > > > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff
anger an'
> > > > > > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't
given him
> > > > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent
stupidity
> > > > > > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz
others. For
> > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when
ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means
"I'm
> > > > > > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da
superglue
> > > > > > > > fumes
> > > > > > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
> > > > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M.
identified,
> > > > > > > > yo'
> > > > > > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me
wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh
"contraction" iz,
> > > > > > > > westplace?
> > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots
prejudices, uh
> > > > > > > > bigotry
> > > > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
> > > > > > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority,
an' you
> > > > > > > > uh
> > > > > > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating
sheeit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
> > > > > > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya
gots ta
> > > > > > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior
intellectual
> > > > > > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward
those wiff uh
> > > > > > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly
explain yo'
> > > > > > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even
though I
> > > > > > > > barely,
> > > > > > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
> > > > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz
ya know
> > > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
> > > > > > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number
o' us iz
> > > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at
yo' quaint,
> > > > > > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person,
who's
> > > > > > > > total
> > > > > > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an
internet
> > > > > > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page
dem yo'
> > > > > > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo'
insecurities
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing
at or wiff
> > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
> > > > > > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't
given him
> > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M.
identified, yo' not
> > > > > > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots
prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I
try ta apply
> > > > > > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it
gives me
> > > > > > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments,
an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya
know da
> > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
> > > > > > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative
ya iz
> > > > > > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da
degenerate
> > > > > > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da
tyme it wuz
> > > > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o'
chronological
> > > > > > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an
internet threat.
> > > > > > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da
inability
> > > > > > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat
yo'
> > > > > > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be
referenced
> > > > > > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced
electrons.
> > > > > > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz!
Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya
can jet an' fetch
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
> > > > > > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > > > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > > > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > > > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma
****in analysis o' ya
> > > > > > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
> > > > > > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just
said. Could
> > > > > > > you try again in English, please?
> > > > > > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted
post
> > > > > > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto
jive.
> > > > > > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > > > > > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > > > > > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy.
what 'chew thinking man?
> > > > > Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a
completely different
> > > > > response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after
jumping on
> > > > > my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your
average
> > > > > time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the
matter, was
> > > > > the first response not stupid enough for you?
> > > > > What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to
get a
> > > > > computer into your prison cell, Westface?
> > > >> Wow, ya'lls math acumen iz just as sharp as da body o' posts
> > > > that you've littered da newsgroup with.
> > > > Why don't ya'll show us ya'lls work on that averages
calculation
> > > > Mr. Math?
> > > > ya'll seem concerned that there iz no way enough stupidity fo'
ya'll.
> > > > ya'lls childish mocking by turning a possible concept o' why
> > > > ya'lls behavior iz wa'tch da thang iz demonstrates ya'lls own
lack of
> > > > creativity an' original thought.
> > > > Now allow me ta mock you:
> > > > Perhaps ya'lls wife smuggled da thang in when da bitch waz
having
> > > > da bitch's conjugal visit with me ( da bitch lied ta da guards
because she
> > > > needed a real nigga ).
> > > I'm sorry Westface, I'm still having trouble understanding you.
> > > What part of the ghetto did you say you were from?
> > This iz actually pretty funny, pathetic but funny.
> > ya'll forge a post allegedly composed by me
> > an' then reply ta da thang several times.
> > That's talking ta yourself.
> > Time ta take some meds, an' get a new diagnosis.
> > ya'lls credibillity index iz slipping into negative numbers
> > Mr. Math.
> What do you mean.... "the white part"?
This has actually been pretty funny, but has become more pathetic.
You forge posts allegedly composed by me
and then reply to them several times.
Your starting to exhibit symptoms of OCD now too.
That's talking to yourself over and over accompanied by compulsive
behavior.
Skip the meds, and get signed into a treatment facility.
Your credibillity index is slipping into negative numbers
Mr. Math.
Quantum physics won't explain away that one.
Your continuous fabrication of reality really needs to be treated.
I don't want my bitch suffering un-necessarily.
wrote:
> wrote:
> > wrote:
> > > wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > only begins to realize his
> netstalking
> > > > > > obsession with me
>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:again attempting ta
> > > > > > > > > obfuscate da reality o' his true purpose in da
> newsgroup
> > > > > > > > > an' posting uh blatent trolling reply, demonstrating
> being da
> > > > > > > > > perpetrator / victim identity
>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:the proof dat
> he'suh lying,
> > > > > > > > > > > manipulative, pitiful, example o' humanity,
> fabricating da
> > > > > > > > > > > statements o' others, proving dat his tweaks iz
> made o' da
> > > > > > > > > > > same fictitious nonsense
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Skippy'sversion:
> > > > > > > > > > > > , bubbling up wiff
> anger an'
> > > > > > > > > unhappiness,
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't
> given him
> > > > > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I see da problem. You gots an inherent
> stupidity
> > > > > > > > > problem. I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > well aware o' dat about ya, actually. So iz
> others. For
> > > > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > > who
> > > > > > > > > > > > don' suffer from yo' mental deficiencies, when
> ya say "I'm
> > > > > > > > > > > > mystified by yo' observation", it actually means
> "I'm
> > > > > > > > > mystified by
> > > > > > > > > > > > yo' observation", an' not "I'm mystified dat da
> superglue
> > > > > > > > > fumes
> > > > > > > > > > > > hadn't given ya mo' than just uh warm feeling".
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M.
> identified,
> > > > > > > > > yo'
> > > > > > > > > > > not uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > This from da guy who attempted ta threaten me
> wiff uh gat on
> > > > > > > > > > > Usenet. By
> > > > > > > > > > > > da way, do ya gots any idea what uh
> "contraction" iz,
> > > > > > > > > westplace?
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots
> prejudices, uh
> > > > > > > > > bigotry
> > > > > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > > > > class, I don' much care fo' "darkies".
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > So ya gots deep flaws, feelings o' inferiority,
> an' you
> > > > > > > > > uh
> > > > > > > > > > > racist
> > > > > > > > > > > > prick. Do tell us mo', westhate. Fascinating
> sheeit.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > an' superior intellectual attitudes,
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > LOL! I guess dey didn't tell ya in prison; ya
> gots ta
> > > > > > > > > gots uh
> > > > > > > > > > > > "superior intellect" ta gots superior
> intellectual
> > > > > > > > > attitudes. I
> > > > > > > > > > > take it
> > > > > > > > > > > > what ya meant wuz ya gots "attitudes" toward
> those wiff uh
> > > > > > > > > > > superior
> > > > > > > > > > > > branez. ie. myself. That would perfectly
> explain yo'
> > > > > > > > > obsessive
> > > > > > > > > > > > netstalking o' me an' subsequent attacks, even
> though I
> > > > > > > > > barely,
> > > > > > > > > > > rarely
> > > > > > > > > > > > pay ya any mind.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz
> ya know
> > > > > > > > > da
> > > > > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > > It ain't just me laughing, westdaze. A number
> o' us iz
> > > > > > > > > reading
> > > > > > > > > > > > peeps like ya an' laughing our fannies off at
> yo' quaint,
> > > > > > > > > > > ignorant
> > > > > > > > > > > > ways. I know dat ya iz uh very insecure person,
> who's
> > > > > > > > > total
> > > > > > > > > > > > identity in life iz linked ta peeps on an
> internet
> > > > > > > > > newsgroup.
> > > > > > > > > > > Whom,
> > > > > > > > > > > > worthless troll dat ya iz, ya can't even page
> dem yo'
> > > > > > > > > > > "virtual"
> > > > > > > > > > > > niggas. However, I'm afraid I don' share yo'
> insecurities
> > > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > > > I care about peeps I don' care about, laughing
> at or wiff
> > > > > > > > > me.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Pretty sad statement about yourself, though.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > What I actually wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > "You gots uh intuitive comprehension problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > I wuz mystified dat da superglue fumes hadn't
> given him
> > > > > > > > > > > mo' than just uh warm feeling.
> > > > > > > > > > > If ya iz actually da individual dat R.M.
> identified, yo' not
> > > > > > > > > > > uh "total lunatic".
> > > > > > > > > > > Your genuinely ****ed up person.
> > > > > > > > > > > I'm not uh perfect human being, I gots
> prejudices, uh bigotry
> > > > > > > > > against
> > > > > > > > > > > class an' superior intellectual attitudes, an' I
> try ta apply
> > > > > > > > > > > dem in uh positive way.
> > > > > > > > > > > I encourage ya ta continue ta babble away, it
> gives me
> > > > > > > > > > > somethin' ta do in muh ma ****in spare moments,
> an' it certainly iz
> > > > > > > > > > > providing entertainment fo' others.
> > > > > > > > > > > You laugh, but it iz uh hollow laughter, cuz ya
> know da
> > > > > > > > > > > others iz still laughing at ya, not wiff ya."
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Perfect example o' how twisted an' manipulative
> ya iz
> > > > > > > > > > > Mr. soundhaspriority, Dr, Graham, or whoever da
> degenerate
> > > > > > > > > > > twit ya iz.
> > > > > > > > > > > You just can't git past being wrong, da from da
> tyme it wuz
> > > > > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > > > > > ta put da gat reference out o' contect, out o'
> chronological
> > > > > > > > > > > order, out o' reality, an' turn it into an
> internet threat.
> > > > > > > > > > > What an idiotic concept ta be blunt about it.
> > > > > > > > > > > The most recent attempt o' yo' manipulation wuz da
> inability
> > > > > > > > > > > ta see uh rather plain spoof on werdz.
> > > > > > > > > > > Your lack o' comprehension o' uh basic variant o'
> > > > > > > > > > > "The Wrath o' Khan" themes in Star Trek revealed
> > > > > > > > > > > uh lack o' pop culture knowlege, an' perhaps dat
> yo'
> > > > > > > > > > > just some twit, spoofing brothas here.
> > > > > > > > > > > You'll gots uh tough tyme proving otherwise,
> > > > > > > > > > > Your credibilty iz archived so any post can be
> referenced
> > > > > > > > > > > fo' content an' chronological relevance.
> > > > > > > > > > > One lie afta another from ya, hundreds o' posts,
> > > > > > > > > > > thousand o' werdz, millions o' inconvenienced
> electrons.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Good boy! What uh pimp-tight little doggie ya iz!
> Now I'm going ta throw
> > > > > > > > > > da bone uh little farther dis here tyme... See if ya
> can jet an' fetch
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > an' bring it back ta me!
>
> > > > > > > > > Your response certainly shows how intellectually superior ya iz.
> > > > > > > > > Didn't some one compare ya ta Napoleon?
> > > > > > > > > Kind o' tough ta type wiff one hand, eh?
> > > > > > > > > Keep at it, you'll show brothas how right muh ma
> ****in analysis o' ya
> > > > > > > > > happens ta be. what 'chew thinking man?
>
>
> > > > > > > > Sorry homey, I don't understand a word of what you just
> said. Could
> > > > > > > > you try again in English, please?
>
> > > > > > > This has ta be da lame-ist attempt at forging uh quoted
> post
> > > > > > > in muh ma ****in name an' da most lame example o' ghetto
> jive.
> > > > > > > You really need ta git an Urban Dictionary.
> > > > > > > That didn't even pass fo' lower case jive.
> > > > > > > White trash has mo' affluence than yo' showing Skippy.
> what 'chew thinking man?
>
> > > > > > Listen Homes, do you realize that you just wrote a
> completely different
> > > > > > response to the same message, only 20 minutes later, after
> jumping on
> > > > > > my message 3 minutes after I posted it (which is about your
> average
> > > > > > time for responding to any of my messages)? What's the
> matter, was
> > > > > > the first response not stupid enough for you?
>
> > > > > > What I really want to know is, how did you ever manage to
> get a
> > > > > > computer into your prison cell, Westface?
>
> > > > >> Wow, ya'lls math acumen iz just as sharp as da body o' posts
> > > > > that you've littered da newsgroup with.
> > > > > Why don't ya'll show us ya'lls work on that averages
> calculation
> > > > > Mr. Math?
> > > > > ya'll seem concerned that there iz no way enough stupidity fo'
> ya'll.
> > > > > ya'lls childish mocking by turning a possible concept o' why
> > > > > ya'lls behavior iz wa'tch da thang iz demonstrates ya'lls own
> lack of
> > > > > creativity an' original thought.
> > > > > Now allow me ta mock you:
> > > > > Perhaps ya'lls wife smuggled da thang in when da bitch waz
> having
> > > > > da bitch's conjugal visit with me ( da bitch lied ta da guards
> because she
> > > > > needed a real nigga ).
>
> > > > I'm sorry Westface, I'm still having trouble understanding you.
> > > > What part of the ghetto did you say you were from?
>
>
> > > This iz actually pretty funny, pathetic but funny.
> > > ya'll forge a post allegedly composed by me
> > > an' then reply ta da thang several times.
> > > That's talking ta yourself.
> > > Time ta take some meds, an' get a new diagnosis.
> > > ya'lls credibillity index iz slipping into negative numbers
> > > Mr. Math.
>
> > What do you mean.... "the white part"?
> This hyar haz acshully b'in purdy funny, but haz become mo'e pathetic.
> ya'll fo'ge posts allegedly composed by me
> an' then reply ta them sevahal times.
> ya'lls startin' ta exhibit symppoms o' OCD now too.
> Thet's talkin' ta yo'seff on over an' on over accompanied by compulsive
> behavio'.
> Skip da meds, an' git signed into a treatment facility.
> ya'lls credibillity index iz slippin' into negative numbers
> Mr. Math. Quantum physics won't explain away thet one.
> ya'lls corntinuous fabricashun o' reality pow'ful needs ta be treated, cuss it all t' tarnation. meh don't be hankerin' mah bitch sufferin' un-necessarily.
Dang, Homey! Whatever you been' smokin', let me tell you, that's
the shizznit. Fashizzle!
dizzy
April 8th 06, 03:59 AM
wrote:
>I don't want my bitch suffering un-necessarily.
274 lines for that, huh? Plonk!
Sander deWaal
April 8th 06, 10:33 PM
said:
<snips>
>(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
>shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
>do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
>don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
>the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
>tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
you know, this made me think about something else:
If some shapes and constructions are influencing what I'm hearing, how
about the (inadvertently) shapes and symbols that are already in the
vicinity of my system that I don't know about?
What is their influence?
Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
close above my system, does that something to the sound?
If so, how can I determine that?
How about LPs with pictures and text that are actually on shelves in
the closet that my gear is in/on?
The problem is, I'm getting pretty insecure at the moment that all
kinds of things have influence.
Is it reasonable to assume that everything has influence?
>DIY record deck? Cool! Seems like your entire system is decked out with
>cool DIY stuff. Now THAT is what I call an "active audiophile"! Or
>"true audiophile" (because if you remember, this hobby became one
>because of people like you who built their amps and such. Later on, an
>"audiophile" simply referred to anyone that bought high quality gear!
>The standards of being an "audiophile" lowered!).
Yup, have been an avid DIY-er all my life, except for loudspeakers.
Which brings me to my next question: if applying L-shapes close to
in/output jackets has the most effect, what can I do *inside* the
boxes?
I mean, one can't get much closer than inside an amp.
Wouldn't have sticking L-shapes (or other symbols) to e.g. the power
transformer or output transistors even more of an influence?
And again, would that be for better or for worse?
Or shoudn't I worry about it and just try?
>I'm not sure exactly what size A4 is, but it sounds like it might be
>too large (although maybe this doesn't matter...). All I know is that
>when I experimented with the 5-pinhole paper tweak, mine was a
>rectangle of just a few inches in size (2 x 3" maybe). I'm not sure
>what the ideal size here is, I did not spend much time on the 5-pinhole
>paper tweak (in fact, I don't actually have any of the devices
>installed in my system presently! I do however have some aspirin
>tablets in some very key locations...).
A4 is a standardized size of paper, at least here on the continent of
Europe.
it is about 210 x 297 millimeters, see
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html
>Nnnnnnnnnoooo! My instructions didn't say anything about "gluing".
>Glue will affect the tweak, because such materials have their own
>influence on the sound, and I don't believe it's a good one.
I made a new device without glue, and taped it at the back of the MG1,
near the terminals, where it still doesn't interfere with the
radiation from the backside.
A slight improvement, but not as much as the one before the first
tweak with the glue still in place.
This is actually very subtle.
Next I'll try the blue paper under the speaker and equipment feet.
>Now imagine that "sense of easiness" and "effortlessness" multiplied by
>100 times. That too is possible, once you really get into alternative
>audio. What I'm saying is that, I do believe those other things you
>mentioned likely did have an influence from the 5-pinhole tweak, but
>you picked up on the reduction of hifi hash aspect ("sense of
>easiness"), because that stood out most. I say that because there are
>many techniques I've used that follow the same principles as the
>simple little 5-pinhole paper device. I can tell you without flinching
>that they can produce "extra information, broadening of the soundstage,
>deepening as well, better imaging (focusing)" and things like that.
>Just the L-shape alone, if properly applied, can do all those things,
>IMHO.
I won't say it is impossible, after what happened this week.
Sorry BTW for the delay in responding, I'm just a simple wage slave
and real life sometimes gets in the way of the best intentions.
Well, that, and I liked to see whther the differences would sustain.
They did, I removed the paper today and immediately, I felt unhappy.
Not only with the sound, but also in general.
We had to go out of the house getting a cappuccino, and when we came
back I immediately put the paper back on the speaker.
>That's normal too, to immediately try to find "reasons". The
>"reasons" is the complicated part. It requires at the very least,
>reading Dr. Sheldrake's research into our primitive biological
>senses. In extremely basic terms, what the 5-pinhole tweak, a
>deceptively clever device, is doing is reducing adverse energy that is
>part of all objects in our environment. Reduction of this energy allows
>our primitive senses to suffer less stress, a reduction of this type of
>stress results in less "stress" in the sound we hear. Some who have
>tweaked their environments to the gills with advanced products that
>work this way, also report less stress in their mood as well, whether
>the stereo is on or not. No other audio devices work like this.
Funny you mentioned that, the first 2 days the paper was in place, I
felt very tired and had a slight headache.
That wore off after some time.
Dunno if this had something to do with the teak, I don't want to
attribute everything to it (yet) ;-)
I can't report similar findings from my wife, as she's chronically ill
and is always in pain.
>Told ya so! LIke I said, I could tell early on that despite the
>mockery, you were the most open-minded, reasonable, and independently
>minded person on the group (as opposed to the mindless sheep that only
>follow the behaviour and thinking of their peers). Which is why despite
>your onslaught of mockery, so many of your responses to me differed
>from those of the others. Takes a lot of courage to admit that. Not
>only did I not expect any one here would be open-minded enough to try
>any of the tweaks, but that even if they did, they'd never have the
>courage to admit it on the group. So not only do I admire and respect
>the fact that you're an active audiophile, have an "open enough
>mind", but I respect your courage as well!
Well, I pretty much always did my own thing, so I don't think of it
as "very courageous".
What saddens me though is the hostile reactions you get.
So no one understands what makes your tweaks work, fine.
Is that reason enough to attack you so fiercely?
I, too, do not understand (or pretend to) what is going on or what
makes the tweaks work (the very little I've read on the internet about
Sheldrake's work didn't explain anything about the possible mechanisms
that make the audio tweaks work), but I'm willing to accept for now
that it works, period.
I'm just a simple techie, who apparently happens to be a bit more open
minded that most.............
As I'll be digging deeper into the theory, I'm sure there will come a
day I'm able to figure out what's going on.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 8th 06, 10:42 PM
Fella > said:
>When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
>do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
>listening) for the effects of the "tweak", it will have just simply worn
>off...
When my first prototype of the class A MOSFET hybrid amp was ready, I
connected it and almost fell off my chair from the clear and
astonishingly good sound it was able to produce.
That effect didn't wear off after a while.
Just like my DAC, or the several types of turntable mat I tried.
While those differences are perfectly explainable from a scientific
point of view (science as we know it), maybe the differences that
tweaks as SHP wrote about work on another level, another plane.
Like I said, I have no explanation (expectation or bias doesn't apply
I think, just because I was skeptical from the beginning. Remember I
wrote about feeling foolish and dumb for even trying it).
Just like you with the Densen and the amp you now use, you did a DBT
IIRC?
You posted that, in the DBT, you heard no differences.
And yet, in every day listening , the differences are there, and you
accept that it is so.
Well, exactly the same is going on with the tweaks I tried (and still
do).
>When that happens you can make another such "device" and stick it on the
>other speaker. And another after the effect of that one wears off. Your
>system will just keep getting better and better at first and then it
>will get back to it's original state some time after, while your
>"tweaks" will mount on top of each other. Next thing you know you are in
>your closet cutting off labels from your shirts, a frenzied look on your
>face, hair all messed up. A long and winding, endless road, them "tweaks".
As a matter of fact, I always clip off the labels of my shirts,
because they're always annoying me, they're itching. :-)
So that's another tweak I don't have to try!
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 8th 06, 10:44 PM
said:
>Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking them,
>you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
>theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
Well, to be honest, I read your posts carefully, but am still
mystified about how this is possible.
I don't have a higher education, I'm just a simple EE, so maybe the
finer subtleties just eluded me?
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
ScottW
April 8th 06, 10:44 PM
"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
> said:
>
> <snips>
>
>>(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
>>shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
>>do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
>>don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
>>the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
>>tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
>
>
> you know, this made me think about something else:
> If some shapes and constructions are influencing what I'm hearing, how
> about the (inadvertently) shapes and symbols that are already in the
> vicinity of my system that I don't know about?
> What is their influence?
>
> Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
> close above my system, does that something to the sound?
> If so, how can I determine that?
> How about LPs with pictures and text that are actually on shelves in
> the closet that my gear is in/on?
>
> The problem is, I'm getting pretty insecure at the moment that all
> kinds of things have influence.
> Is it reasonable to assume that everything has influence?
Yes... everything does in your environment influences your
perception to one degree or another.
The key here is to remember....it only your perception. And
with sighted influences all you have to do is sit back, relax, close
your eyes and forget it's there.
Personally I'm not at all interested in tweaks that really only
alter my mind or its state through any manner.
That phase of life is long past for me.....except for bourbon
or a little Drambui on the rocks.
ScottW
George M. Middius
April 8th 06, 11:04 PM
Sander deWaal said:
> >Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking them,
> >you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
> >theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
> Well, to be honest, I read your posts carefully, but am still
> mystified about how this is possible.
> I don't have a higher education, I'm just a simple EE, so maybe the
> finer subtleties just eluded me?
It's time Shovels admitted his experiment in witch-doctoring, or mass
hyponosis through obloquy and vitriol, is a failure. Clearly the secret to
getting agreement that his so-called "tweaks" actually work is the use of
traditional mind-control methods, which must be performed up close and in
person.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Steven Sullivan
April 8th 06, 11:19 PM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> said:
> <snips>
> >(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
> >shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
> >do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
> >don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
> >the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
> >tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
> you know, this made me think about something else:
> If some shapes and constructions are influencing what I'm hearing, how
> about the (inadvertently) shapes and symbols that are already in the
> vicinity of my system that I don't know about?
> What is their influence?
> Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
> close above my system, does that something to the sound?
> If so, how can I determine that?
Does a little cuckoo bird come out of it periodically?
Because that at least would provide the appropriate sound effect.
Sander deWaal
April 8th 06, 11:25 PM
Steven Sullivan > said:
>> Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
>> close above my system, does that something to the sound?
>> If so, how can I determine that?
>Does a little cuckoo bird come out of it periodically?
>Because that at least would provide the appropriate sound effect.
Don't be silly, cuckoo clocks don't run on batteries.
I painted an "L" shape on my computer monitor, it makes all posts a
little less hard to read. Try it! *
* this is actually a little joke, don't do this unless you're
prepared to let go of your secure world view.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 8th 06, 11:29 PM
George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
said:
>It's time Shovels admitted his experiment in witch-doctoring, or mass
>hyponosis through obloquy and vitriol, is a failure. Clearly the secret to
>getting agreement that his so-called "tweaks" actually work is the use of
>traditional mind-control methods, which must be performed up close and in
>person.
Be careful here, asitappens I'm not entirely unfamiliar with wicca.
I strongly believe that whatever you do or say to another person, will
reflect back on you in some other way.
Others may call that "karma", note.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Fella
April 8th 06, 11:44 PM
Sander deWaal wrote:
> Fella > said:
>
>
>
>>When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
>>do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
>>listening) for the effects of the "tweak", it will have just simply worn
>>off...
>
>
>
> When my first prototype of the class A MOSFET hybrid amp was ready, I
> connected it and almost fell off my chair from the clear and
> astonishingly good sound it was able to produce.
>
I take "tweaks" to be more insignificant things. Change of amps, cd
players are another matter.
Besides, what I write above is just a personal theory. Might not have
any truth to it at all. Another theory that I got to thinking about
these latter years is the "learning" theory. That is, tweaks teach us to
concentrate and distinguish given aspects of sounds. Once we learn
though, we are able to focus on those aspects without the tweak in place
also. We "learn" how to listen? Thus the tweak looses effect, is no
longer necessary,etc.
We have a history of correspondance Sander. If you still have my mail
please write to me. I have a couple things I need to ask you.
> While those differences are perfectly explainable from a scientific
> point of view (science as we know it), maybe the differences that
> tweaks as SHP wrote about work on another level, another plane.
Insipte of the pure evil, hatred and animosity that poluted entity
generates I went to the yahoo groups site of the pwb firm and did some
reading today... Some aspects of the things I understood there (or think
I understood) are the issues I'd like to discuss with you.
>
> Well, exactly the same is going on with the tweaks I tried (and still
> do).
>
The wearing off (or learning, or something else, dunno) happens after
some weeks, even months. My IMHO is that eventually you *will* start
take your pinhole paper "device" for granted, and when you discard it
you will hear no differences.
George M. Middius
April 8th 06, 11:58 PM
Sander deWaal said:
> >It's time Shovels admitted his experiment in witch-doctoring, or mass
> >hyponosis through obloquy and vitriol, is a failure. Clearly the secret to
> >getting agreement that his so-called "tweaks" actually work is the use of
> >traditional mind-control methods, which must be performed up close and in
> >person.
> Be careful here, asitappens I'm not entirely unfamiliar with wicca.
That's as may be, ma'am, but I am referring to witch-doctoring, not
witchcraft.
> I strongly believe that whatever you do or say to another person, will
> reflect back on you in some other way.
> Others may call that "karma", note.
I've hoid dat.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
paul packer
April 9th 06, 02:58 AM
On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 23:33:52 +0200, Sander deWaal >
wrote:
said:
>
><snips>
>
>>(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
>>shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
>>do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
>>don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
>>the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
>>tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
>
>
>you know, this made me think about something else:
>If some shapes and constructions are influencing what I'm hearing, how
>about the (inadvertently) shapes and symbols that are already in the
>vicinity of my system that I don't know about?
>What is their influence?
>
>Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
>close above my system, does that something to the sound?
>If so, how can I determine that?
>How about LPs with pictures and text that are actually on shelves in
>the closet that my gear is in/on?
>
>The problem is, I'm getting pretty insecure at the moment that all
>kinds of things have influence.
>Is it reasonable to assume that everything has influence?
Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
that would be only so much the worse.
>
>>DIY record deck? Cool! Seems like your entire system is decked out with
>>cool DIY stuff. Now THAT is what I call an "active audiophile"! Or
>>"true audiophile" (because if you remember, this hobby became one
>>because of people like you who built their amps and such. Later on, an
>>"audiophile" simply referred to anyone that bought high quality gear!
>>The standards of being an "audiophile" lowered!).
>
>
>Yup, have been an avid DIY-er all my life, except for loudspeakers.
>Which brings me to my next question: if applying L-shapes close to
>in/output jackets has the most effect, what can I do *inside* the
>boxes?
>I mean, one can't get much closer than inside an amp.
No. And remember that AC makes holes in your thumb.
>Wouldn't have sticking L-shapes (or other symbols) to e.g. the power
>transformer or output transistors even more of an influence?
See above. Paranoia setting in fast now.
>And again, would that be for better or for worse?
>Or shoudn't I worry about it and just try?
On the slippery slide.
>Next I'll try the blue paper under the speaker and equipment feet.
Cutting and pasting....cutting and pasting....
>>Now imagine that "sense of easiness" and "effortlessness" multiplied by
>>100 times. That too is possible, once you really get into alternative
>>audio. What I'm saying is that, I do believe those other things you
>>mentioned likely did have an influence from the 5-pinhole tweak, but
>>you picked up on the reduction of hifi hash aspect ("sense of
>>easiness"), because that stood out most. I say that because there are
>>many techniques I've used that follow the same principles as the
>>simple little 5-pinhole paper device. I can tell you without flinching
>>that they can produce "extra information, broadening of the soundstage,
>>deepening as well, better imaging (focusing)" and things like that.
>>Just the L-shape alone, if properly applied, can do all those things,
>>IMHO.
>
>I won't say it is impossible, after what happened this week.
>
>Sorry BTW for the delay in responding, I'm just a simple wage slave
>and real life sometimes gets in the way of the best intentions.
>Well, that, and I liked to see whther the differences would sustain.
>
>They did, I removed the paper today and immediately, I felt unhappy.
>Not only with the sound, but also in general.
>We had to go out of the house getting a cappuccino, and when we came
>back I immediately put the paper back on the speaker.
Yep. And I wonder what you were thinking about while sipping that
cappuccino? Any guesses, group?
>>That's normal too, to immediately try to find "reasons". The
>>"reasons" is the complicated part. It requires at the very least,
>>reading Dr. Sheldrake's research into our primitive biological
>>senses. In extremely basic terms, what the 5-pinhole tweak, a
>>deceptively clever device, is doing is reducing adverse energy that is
>>part of all objects in our environment. Reduction of this energy allows
>>our primitive senses to suffer less stress, a reduction of this type of
>>stress results in less "stress" in the sound we hear. Some who have
>>tweaked their environments to the gills with advanced products that
>>work this way, also report less stress in their mood as well, whether
>>the stereo is on or not. No other audio devices work like this.
>
>
>Funny you mentioned that, the first 2 days the paper was in place, I
>felt very tired and had a slight headache.
>That wore off after some time.
>Dunno if this had something to do with the teak, I don't want to
>attribute everything to it (yet) ;-)
Don't worry. You will in time. :-)
>What saddens me though is the hostile reactions you get.
>So no one understands what makes your tweaks work, fine.
>Is that reason enough to attack you so fiercely?
>
>I, too, do not understand (or pretend to) what is going on or what
>makes the tweaks work (the very little I've read on the internet about
>Sheldrake's work didn't explain anything about the possible mechanisms
>that make the audio tweaks work), but I'm willing to accept for now
>that it works, period.
>I'm just a simple techie, who apparently happens to be a bit more open
>minded that most.............
>
>As I'll be digging deeper into the theory, I'm sure there will come a
>day I'm able to figure out what's going on.
But there'll be many more of those headaches before that day come
around, Sander, trust me.
paul packer
April 9th 06, 03:09 AM
On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 00:29:49 +0200, Sander deWaal >
wrote:
>George M. Middius <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
>said:
>
>
>>It's time Shovels admitted his experiment in witch-doctoring, or mass
>>hyponosis through obloquy and vitriol, is a failure. Clearly the secret to
>>getting agreement that his so-called "tweaks" actually work is the use of
>>traditional mind-control methods, which must be performed up close and in
>>person.
>
>
>Be careful here, asitappens I'm not entirely unfamiliar with wicca.
>
>I strongly believe that whatever you do or say to another person, will
>reflect back on you in some other way.
That's extremely bad news for Mr. Sound. I'm sure he didn't want to
hear that.
Steven Sullivan
April 9th 06, 05:46 AM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan > said:
> >> Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
> >> close above my system, does that something to the sound?
> >> If so, how can I determine that?
> >Does a little cuckoo bird come out of it periodically?
> >Because that at least would provide the appropriate sound effect.
> Don't be silly, cuckoo clocks don't run on batteries.
Wanna bet?
http://www.shop.com/op/~River_City_Cuckoo_Clocks_Musical_8_Inch_Multi_Col ored_Quartz_Cuckoo_Clock_M8_08PQ-prod-27056790-35845709?sourceid=298
> I painted an "L" shape on my computer monitor, it makes all posts a
> little less hard to read. Try it! *
> * this is actually a little joke, don't do this unless you're
> prepared to let go of your secure world view.
It's actually a joke...but it might just work if I let
go of my secure world view?
When did you become so credulous, Sander?
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
>
> <snips>
>
> >(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
> >shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
> >do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
> >don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
> >the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
> >tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
> you know, this made me think about something else:
> If some shapes and constructions are influencing what I'm hearing, how
> about the (inadvertently) shapes and symbols that are already in the
> vicinity of my system that I don't know about?
> What is their influence?
You would be surprised. When I said "shapes and symbols" influence our
perception of sound, I didn't simply mean what you draw on the
equipment or other objects, but the shapes that are already part of the
environment. Biogeometry, which I stole the L-shape audio tweak idea
from, is in fact the study of shapes and symbols in the environment,
and its influence on our mental health, or other living things, such as
crops.
If you look at the L-shape you'll see that it looks, not
uncoincidentally, like an "L". But with the right angle removed. My
studies (supporting Belt's research) have shown that all sharp right
angles in the environment have an influence on our perception of sound.
For this reason, I have "rounded off" the sharp corners of all my audio
equipment and speakers, using dots to change the shape of the corners
(same with my windows). I've also, as mentioned in a previous post,
installed quarter round in the corners of the walls, for the same
reason of changing the right angles to curves.
> Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
> close above my system, does that something to the sound?
> If so, how can I determine that?
Interesting you should mention clocks. I tried creating a battery
powered LCD clock that I could place atop my stereo to improve the
sound (inspired by Geoff Kait's "Clever Little Clock", which is also
based on alternative audio techniques).... did not succeed, though. (I
did however succeed many years ago at improving things by plugging an
LED clock with large digits, into the same outlet as my amp - but
because it does have an electrical connection to the audio system, I
believe the electric clock may be operating on more conventional
Newtonian physics).
Now your battery clock, can not, of course, have any direct influence
in the electrical/electronic chain, that connects your hifi system. But
I'd say yes, it's most probably having an influence on your sound,
and I'd say it would be a negative one. Clocks are objects that
apparently, have a particular significance in this area. At the very
least, the plastic material and the battery, would be detrimental. How
can you determine that? Listen to your system, then take the clock well
out of your listening room, then listen again; carefully! If you need
the clock there, I'd say it can possibly be changed into a positive
object (one who's harmful effects is reduced, at least). I did say I
did not succeed with my battery clock, but I meant I didn't succeed
into turning it into a "Clever Little Clock". However, I did treatments
to the clock (which included foil on the battery) to where if I kept
it near my stereo, it slightly improved things.
> How about LPs with pictures and text that are actually on shelves in
> the closet that my gear is in/on?
I hate to say this, but most objects are likely to have a detrimental
effect, but if so, if they can be treated, the harmful effect can be
reduced. This however, requires some dedication, if you have many LPs
(and some expense, perhaps). It may or may not be practical, depending
on your situation. I don't know if the picture and text is going to
be of any particular significance (even if it is, you can't do
anything about it save for taking the records out of the listening
room), but if there are bar codes on the back, then yes. (They can be
crossed out, I use a special marker to do this). The LPs should be
stacked upright, and you might try just removing one LP from the room,
to see if that changes things for better or worse (or no effect).
> The problem is, I'm getting pretty insecure at the moment that all
> kinds of things have influence.
Welcome to my world! You can't see it, you can't feel it, you
can't touch it... but quantum reality is all around us. It may
require a paradigm shift in thinking to accept, but once you stop
fighting that reality, you become part of another one.
> Is it reasonable to assume that everything has influence?
Yes! What you heard with the 5-pinhole tweak was only the tip of the
(quantum) iceberg. The influence of the environment on our perception
of sound is so great, even I don't know all that's there, with all
my research into the phenomena. I'm discovering new things nearly
every day now, as I tinker with the bleeding edge of audio. But as you
might imagine, I am very aware of things in my environment, and their
influence on my perception of sound (from my hifi system). Everything
that comes into my house gets considered, at least in the back of my
mind. I try to minimize things that I posess, not just because I think
it might have a negative impact on my stereo, but too much physical
clutter might have a negative impact on other aspects of our well
being. (I should perhaps mention I'm an adherent to the voluntary
simplicity movement, so have other reasons to minimize clutter, besides
audio-related ones).
With respect to the audio system, the things that concern me most are
bar codes and magnets. Magnets are very interesting (and mysterious)
objects actually, because I can use them to influence other objects
(even non magnetic objects, such as water). Which I can in turn use to
improve the sound of my stereo. There are other ways they can be used
to influence sound positively, but in most other cases, they have a
negative impact on sound. This especially includes tapes, since tapes
have magnetic particles. Therefore, I make sure all videotapes and
audio tapes are removed from the listening room. If the object with the
bar code is to stay permanently in my environment (say a new computer
keyboard), I either remove the label containing the bar code, or draw a
line through it. Actually, just the labels on your audio equipment,
whether or not they contain bar codes, can have an effect. I always
remove all the labels.
> Yup, have been an avid DIY-er all my life, except for loudspeakers.
> Which brings me to my next question: if applying L-shapes close to
> in/output jackets has the most effect, what can I do *inside* the
> boxes?
Everything. I recently took my (dynamic) speakers apart, and treated
almost every object in or around the box. The cream electret I
mentioned once, was used to treat the crossover, as well as the
woofer/mid/tweeter cones. Other Belt products were used to treat all
the wiring, and the wiring was set up in "special ways". The acoustic
insulation was specially treated, "morphic messages" were written on
various components and thick L-shapes were drawn on the backs of the
magnets of the drivers (if you have to draw the shape, don't just do
a thin one-line drawing as Fella did; you have to follow the
instructions I gave). Further to that, some L-shape printouts were made
and one copy was affixed each to all walls of each speaker. That's
how I started the project, anyway...
> I mean, one can't get much closer than inside an amp.
I've gotten inside every single component in my system to treat it
using advanced alternative audio techniques. Including the empty jacks.
> Wouldn't have sticking L-shapes (or other symbols) to e.g. the power
> transformer or output transistors even more of an influence?
> And again, would that be for better or for worse?
Some of the materials I work with are specially treated types of foil.
These foils can be applied pretty much anywhere (CDs, audio equipment,
tvs, etc), and will influence the sound (or image). Since they're
kind of expensive to stick everywhere, I did research to find out what
effect they'd have at different particular places in my amplifier,
and after positioning and repositioning them at various locations
around the PCB board and some of its components, I found that quality
of sound was always best near entrance or exit locations. Just to
clarify, they will have an effect anywhere, but the best overall sound
quality is derived from these specific locations. Although I didn't
do the same tests on the L-shape, I know that it will follow the same
principles as the foils I tested. I don't recall if I tested the
foil on the transformer, but I may not have, because it isn't located
near the exit or entrance path. While I don't have any L-shapes on my
transformer, I do have aspirins and other things taped to the floor
around the transformer in my cd player (and I think my amp...).
> Or shoudn't I worry about it and just try?
Ideally, you should just try if you're at all worried about degrading
the sonic integrity of your system. But you have to have good listening
skills if you're going to forge such paths on your own. Because all
the possible combinations means being able to determine if a change has
any detrimental impact whatsoever, in seconds (for me, anyway). I use
headphones, not speakers to do these kinds of detailed "microtests".
They take much less time to conclude things. I would not draw the shape
directly on the transformer, if it isn't an ideal location (and the
BMP image I made prints out to a size much larger than necessary for a
PT). So the best thing is to draw it on plain white paper (which you
adhere with scotch tape) or a white mailing address label; then you can
remove it and replace it, at will.
> A4 is a standardized size of paper, at least here on the continent of
> Europe.
Yeah, I know what it is, I just don't remember its exact dimensions.
If the size worked for you, then I guess it isn't too large, but I
have not experimented with different sizes for the 5-pinhole tweak.
> I made a new device without glue, and taped it at the back of the MG1,
> near the terminals, where it still doesn't interfere with the
> radiation from the backside.
>
> A slight improvement, but not as much as the one before the first
> tweak with the glue still in place.
> This is actually very subtle.
Still, you found it was an improvement, right. We're talking a small
amount of glue, and yet you were able to hear the effects of a small
amount of glue near (not even on!) your speakers. So now after finding
out that paper, holes, aspirin and animal pictures can all have an
effect on sound, you just added "glue" to the list as well.
> Next I'll try the blue paper under the speaker and equipment feet.
No, it's white paper! Plain blue paper goes under potted plants.
Plain white paper goes under one of the equipment feet, if it has 4
feet (the effect is like removing one of the feet). You don't need to
stop at the equipment. For example, you have a coffee table with 4
feet, or a chair, try the paper there as well (I admit, I haven't yet
tried this under anything but audio components, as its one of the many
things I haven't gotten around to trying yet). As for the speakers,
I'm sure the white paper has benefits there as well, but I use toilet
paper myself (one ply of plain toilet paper under the surface). In the
case of the toilet paper, and maybe the white paper as well, the more
contact your speaker makes with the floor, the better. Needless to say,
you have to remove the spikes, if any. Even if you aren't doing this,
all spikes and cones I've heard degrade sound.
Think about this: Most audiophiles think about improving their sound,
but rarely if ever, think about removing things that might be degrading
it.
> >Now imagine that "sense of easiness" and "effortlessness" multiplied by
> >100 times. That too is possible, once you really get into alternative
> >audio. What I'm saying is that, I do believe those other things you
> >mentioned likely did have an influence from the 5-pinhole tweak, but
> >you picked up on the reduction of hifi hash aspect ("sense of
> >easiness"), because that stood out most. I say that because there are
> >many techniques I've used that follow the same principles as the
> >simple little 5-pinhole paper device. I can tell you without flinching
> >that they can produce "extra information, broadening of the soundstage,
> >deepening as well, better imaging (focusing)" and things like that.
> >Just the L-shape alone, if properly applied, can do all those things,
> >IMHO.
>
>
> I won't say it is impossible, after what happened this week.
> They did, I removed the paper today and immediately, I felt unhappy.
> Not only with the sound, but also in general.
I don't think that's a coincidence, btw. Many customers of PWB (the
company that makes weird little audio products based on the ideas and
tweaks I've discussed) have reported experiencing that effect
(although I can't say I have, simply because I've never yet removed
all the treatments I did to my environment!). To understand this, you
have to understand what is at play when you attempt to change energy
patterns on objects by such devices as the 5-pinhole device. Again,
greatly oversimplifying Sheldrake's biological research, which argues
that we still retain our primordial senses, and that objects in our
modern environment carry energy patterns that on some level, we react
to, as we did when we first evolved. The modern objects around us
confuse these primordial senses, because they are not natural to us
(not even the wood trim of the Maggies, because it is no longer living
wood). Reduce the adverse effects of such objects, and you improve your
senses. The question is, what do these "senses" consist of? Well I know
that reducing the "negative" aspects of this energy in your environment
(ie. speakers) bears an effect on sight, and sound (yes, I've been
able to improve my video picture as well, with such alternative
techniques). But since those are only two senses, it would be
presumptious to believe it stops there, so it could very well have an
effect on other senses, that affect our mood.
> We had to go out of the house getting a cappuccino, and when we came
> back I immediately put the paper back on the speaker.
I'd say you have a system of good resolution and good listening
skills. You might find another odd effect coming into play at some
point if you continue exploring advanced audio techniques (or perhaps
you already have?). It is this: when you apply one of these
alternative audio concepts to your environment, get used to the sound
with the treatment in place, and then remove the treatment, you may
perceive your sound quality as being worse than what you started with!
(Replacing the treatment restores the sound quality 100%). I've
experienced this phenomenon, and so have many others, but only with
alternative tweaks, not with my conventional ones. There are reasons
for this too lengthy to get into now, but it has to do with a standard
of memory.
> I can't report similar findings from my wife, as she's chronically ill
> and is always in pain.
Maybe you should check out the biogeometry site (www.biogeometry.com).
They sell specially made products with special symbols like the L
shape, that are to be worn on the person, and are said to have
beneficial health effects. While I don't advocate their products (I
know very little about it, and never tried them), just from the fact
that I know the L-shape has an effect on sound, who knows if simply
using their products might have a beneficial effect on chronic illness.
Of course, they don't advocate their products in place of medical
treatment, or anything like that.
> Well, I pretty much always did my own thing, so I don't think of it
> as "very courageous".
I always did my own thing as well (as I'm doing right now on this
group....), and I don't consider not listening to others in terms of
"courageous" either. But I have to point out the fact that most people
are scared silly to even go near anything they don't understand, and
that other ignorant people will ridicule them for. Look at Fella's
reaction after he claims he tried one of my tweaks, and went on a week
long kook-out after he couldn't figure out how to do it properly...
which he's -still- on!. So in overall terms in our society, it does
appear "courageous".
> What saddens me though is the hostile reactions you get.
Strange, huh? Well, I know it's only a fraction of what Belt gets
around places where mindless sheep mill about to chew cud (and chew out
each other), and AFAIC, he's one of the true geniuses of audio. So I
wear my hostile reactions as a red badge of courage. You could almost
say the more that I receive, the more enlightened I feel, and the more
glad I am that I am an independent thinker, and not a mindless sheep,
like all of those who would mindlessly attack me, without question,
without thinking, without trying anything.
> So no one understands what makes your tweaks work, fine.
Hell, even I barely understand it all! It never stopped me from trying
and enjoying them. But as we've seen ever since I stepped foot into
the pig farm that is RAO, people will think nothing of nattering on for
5 weeks and hundreds of messages arguing about how the tweaks are silly
and can't work, when it would probably take 30 seconds for them to
find out which one of us two is the dumb, silly, and insane (or a
narrow-minded bigot, for that matter...).
> Is that reason enough to attack you so fiercely?
Apparently, so. Have you read some of Fella's messages to me
recently?! Or even J. Borg Jr.s? I've never seen so many curse words
outside of a Tourett's Syndrome Sufferer's Town Hall meeting. But
on a sociological level, it's fascinating to me. It says many sad
things about the pitiful state of the society we live in.The social
conditing that teaches people to ridicule others who act or think
differently than the norm (aka mindless sheep). This same conditioning
that makes it nearly impossible to advance science and our
understanding of the world, since you have to jump through thousands of
hoops just to get your ideas tabled, let alone recognized. Particularly
if you are coming out of left field studying previously (completely)
unkown phenomena.
> I, too, do not understand (or pretend to) what is going on or what
> makes the tweaks work (the very little I've read on the internet about
> Sheldrake's work didn't explain anything about the possible mechanisms
> that make the audio tweaks work),
You won't find anything about audio in Sheldrake's work. You have
to look at Belt's research for that, to see where he applies
Sheldrake's findings to his own, because he discovered much in the
way of sound phenomena that fits the patterns of morphic resonance
theory. Not unlike the way I discovered sound phenomena derived from
Dr. Emoto's research ("Messages From Water"), which has nothing to do
with audio either.
> but I'm willing to accept for now
> that it works, period.
All the ideas I've shared work. Period. I've confirmed all that
with thorough objective-subjective testing, and in most cases, many
others have as well.
> I'm just a simple techie, who apparently happens to be a bit more open
> minded that most.............
>
> As I'll be digging deeper into the theory, I'm sure there will come a
> day I'm able to figure out what's going on.
I've heard it said that if you can figure out what's going on in
quantum mechanics, then it means you don't understand it very well!
Sander deWaal wrote:
> Fella > said:
>
>
> >When you stop search-listening (yes, "search-listening"; something you
> >do after having implemented a "tweak" very different from just mere
> >listening) for the effects of the "tweak", it will have just simply worn
> >off...
>
>
> When my first prototype of the class A MOSFET hybrid amp was ready, I
> connected it and almost fell off my chair from the clear and
> astonishingly good sound it was able to produce.
>
> That effect didn't wear off after a while.
> Just like my DAC, or the several types of turntable mat I tried.
Ever since primitive man couldn't understand why "the sky was
crying", they came up with "logical reasons" to explain away what they
could not understand. In the case of audio, primitive audiophiles and
engineers often cite "expectation effects", "placebo", "autosuggestion"
or some other ignorant reason to try to dismiss someone else's
listening experience. In the case of Fella, it's his own concept of
"search listening" (he probably never heard of the "placebo effect" and
doesn't realize his concept is the same thing said in a different
way). Indeed, in medical research, placebo effects wear off. That's
why they're placebo effects; otherwise, we wouldn't need drug
companies producing medication, we'd all do fine with sugar pills.
Well exactly NONE of my tweaks, conventional or unconventional, have
EVER "worn off". Not even the ones I thought for sure might! I
guarantee you that you will not find your 5-pinhole device ever
"wearing off", like a cheap marker.
> While those differences are perfectly explainable from a scientific
> point of view (science as we know it), maybe the differences that
> tweaks as SHP wrote about work on another level, another plane.
I believe the tweaks do follow "science as we know it", but then, it
can be argued that everything in the quantum world works on "another
level, another plane", than our previous understanding of matter and
particle. And it's a science that has a long ways to go to evolve.
> Like I said, I have no explanation (expectation or bias doesn't apply
> I think, just because I was skeptical from the beginning. Remember I
> wrote about feeling foolish and dumb for even trying it).
>
> Just like you with the Densen and the amp you now use, you did a DBT
> IIRC?
> You posted that, in the DBT, you heard no differences.
> And yet, in every day listening , the differences are there, and you
> accept that it is so.
>
> Well, exactly the same is going on with the tweaks I tried (and still
> do).
Again, because of social conditioning, people learn to avoid thinking,
and thinking for themselves. Hence the practice of the "DBTs" by
consumer audio hobbyists. The idea here is to try to avoid fooling
yourself, but by substituting your personal judgement for a DBT, you
are, in effect, fooling yourself. Because the audio DBT itself is an
illusion of objectivity. It attempts to control variables, but there
are so many variables going on around us, you can not do that. Instead,
it changes patterns of thought behaviour (studies that date back to the
70's show this), which usually ends in completely different results
than would have been obtained under normal (unstressful) listening
conditions. People ignore the inherent flaws in DBT tests, and
interpret the negative results due to the mental stresses inflicted by
the tests, as evidence that everything in audio sounds the same. Yet
those same people, when listening to the products (sighted or
unsighted), outside the stresses induced by the DBT test, very often
report hearing significant changes. In fact, millions of audiophiles
report hearing differences in audio components that the DBT advocates
all say does not exist (therefore it's a mass delusion on the scale
of millions!").
Question is: Who's fooling who, here?
> As a matter of fact, I always clip off the labels of my shirts,
> because they're always annoying me, they're itching. :-)
>
> So that's another tweak I don't have to try!
Well.... actually.... the idea is to clip a corner off the label of all
your clothing, not the entire label. That's only going to prevent
itching, but it won't do jack to improve your audio sound!
ScottW wrote:
> "Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > said:
> >
> Yes... everything does in your environment influences your
> perception to one degree or another.
>
> The key here is to remember....it only your perception.
No, it isn't. It was his wife's perception as well. As it would be
for anyone else.
> And
> with sighted influences all you have to do is sit back, relax, close
> your eyes and forget it's there.
That's how a stereo system works, brainiac.
> Personally I'm not at all interested in tweaks that really only
> alter my mind or its state through any manner.
Are you planning on being an ignorant putz all of your life, Scott? Get
some education. In the quantum world, there is much evidence that
suggest reality is all perception.
> That phase of life is long past for me.....except for bourbon
> or a little Drambui on the rocks.
You're altering your mind and its state every second of your life.
Guess you don't know squat about biology either.
Get educated, its the cure for your ignorance.
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
>
>
> >Had you been reading my posts instead of just violently attacking them,
> >you'd have understood the basic foundation of morphic resonance
> >theory, and would not be so mystified by Sander's observation.
>
>
> Well, to be honest, I read your posts carefully, but am still
> mystified about how this is possible.
>
> I don't have a higher education, I'm just a simple EE, so maybe the
> finer subtleties just eluded me?
I said above, "basic foundation", not "finer subtleties". For the finer
subtleties, you have to study several sciences. If you're really that
interested, I can point you to some sources of information, privately.
>
> --
>
> - Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Fella
April 9th 06, 12:28 PM
wrote:
> Oh did you now?! I thought you just finished telling me what a silly
> silly SILLY silly $%/"! that I was for believing in such tweaks? So
> what exactly are you doing sniffing around my homeground
some spaziba is coming along your way need to make sure of some things first
Fella
April 9th 06, 12:44 PM
wrote:
> Fella, aka Satan's Best Friend, wrote:
>
>
>>Sander deWaal wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Fella > said:
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I take "tweaks" to be more insignificant things. Change of amps, cd
>>players are another matter.
>
>
>
> That's because you're an ignorant bumclot, and all you understand
> are old, outdated, conventional theories. I can and have performed many
> tweaks that can effect greater changes than you can by changing your cd
> player or amp.
richard graham
instead of writing like the above you could have written the *same* like
below which would make you a human being not an evil over-****ed,
****-born tiny chihuahua:
"
That's because you understand old, outdated, conventional theories. I
can and have performed many tweaks that can effect greater changes than
you can by changing your cd player or amp."
You are begging for punishment when anonymous. Yet you answer
"Isn't there a moderator to deal with this? As I said, I only heard of
the newsgroup last week, and what I read of his style seemed nothing like
many
of the people who post on PWB matters that I am aware of. Why would I
know
him? I don't know you either. A closed circuit of audio radicals? We
live
in exciting times.
I would suggest you ignore him - he must be thrilled with all the
attention he is getting. Otherwise, couldn't someone stop his posts?
Richard Graham
"
in person
all you have to do now is wait
Fella
April 9th 06, 01:00 PM
wrote:
> I can and have performed many
> tweaks that can effect greater changes than you can by changing your cd
> player or amp.
That's called masturbation you ****-born. You can't afford a decent amp
so you tweak your bookshelf aiwa plastic stereo. On another cum-drool
rant you mentioned that heavy, lot's of metal amps "are against my
design priciples" .. LOL! The translation of that to human languge would
be "I can't afford decent high end equipment, I have to tweak the junk I
have and masturbate-listen to it". :)
>
>
>>Besides, what I write above is just a personal theory. Might not have
>>any truth to it at all.
>
>
> Big shocker there.
That was human writing, not an omnipotent-when-masturbating ****-born
chihuahua such as yourself. Yes, humans have theories, ideas, doubts,
they change their minds, etc. All knowing bitter chihuahuas are another
matter. :)
>
>>Some aspects of the things I understood there (or think
>>I understood) are the issues I'd like to discuss with you.
>
>
> Sure, that makes sense. Since Sander's an expert on Beltism now. LOL!
The scam job you scum call "beltism" relies on the fact that after the
"free tweaks" wear off it is time to buy "very difficult tp produce"
"cream-electrets" (LOL!) silver foils, "treatment packages" etc. That
was what I wanted to talk to him about. As a staunch subjectivist I hate
to say this but the WHOLE "beltism" is based purely on commiting fraud
on the innocent gullible audiophile, selling them worthless junk and a
"mental framework".
It's all there when you read *in between* the lines.
>
> I've been using advanced audio techniques like the 5-pinhole paper
> device for over 20 years,
Not a prob bob. That's because you haven't been able to afford anything
decent for over 20 years. Not my problem. Being poor and destitute for
over 20 years should not have made a bitter, evil chihuahua out of you
though. Sad, no longer funny.
and certainly bad for you
richard graham > PAIN
Fella
April 9th 06, 01:11 PM
wrote:
> Biogeometry, which I stole the L-shape audio tweak idea
> from,
ok so you *are* richard graham
quite a chicken **** in person though:
----begin quote
"
Afraid not. I actually dislike this culture of pseudonyms, and have no
idea who this person is. May Belt mentioned that I was being blamed for
posts by this person, but I have had so many other things to attend to
recently I haven't even had a chance to post on the PWB forum.
I suspect there is little evidence to suggest it is me, and if everyone
is
so convinced, little I can do to change their minds. Although until
last
week, I hadn't even heard of that audio newsgroup.
Richard Graham
> are you "soundhaspriority"?
"
----end quote
Fella wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Fella, aka Satan's Best Friend, wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Sander deWaal wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Fella > said:
> >>>
> >>
> >>I take "tweaks" to be more insignificant things. Change of amps, cd
> >>players are another matter.
> >
> >
> >
> > That's because you're an ignorant bumclot, and all you understand
> > are old, outdated, conventional theories. I can and have performed many
> > tweaks that can effect greater changes than you can by changing your cd
> > player or amp.
>
> richard graham
>
> instead of writing like the above you could have written the *same* like
> below which would make you a human being not an evil over-****ed,
> ****-born tiny chihuahua:
>
> "
> That's because you understand old, outdated, conventional theories. I
> can and have performed many tweaks that can effect greater changes than
> you can by changing your cd player or amp."
>
> You are begging for punishment when anonymous. Yet you answer
>
> "Isn't there a moderator to deal with this? As I said, I only heard of
> the newsgroup last week, and what I read of his style seemed nothing like
> many
> of the people who post on PWB matters that I am aware of. Why would I
> know
> him? I don't know you either. A closed circuit of audio radicals? We
> live
> in exciting times.
>
> I would suggest you ignore him - he must be thrilled with all the
> attention he is getting. Otherwise, couldn't someone stop his posts?
>
>
> Richard Graham
> "
>
> in person
Duh, that couldn't be because I'm NOT RICHARD GRAHAM, and you
harassed someone in email and threatened them on this group that you
stupidly thought was me, could it?
>
> all you have to do now is wait
What are you proposing to do? Jump Dr. Graham when he leaves his flat,
and beat him up for making you try an L-tweak?
Fella wrote:
> wrote:
> > Biogeometry, which I stole the L-shape audio tweak idea
> > from,
>
> ok so you *are* richard graham
Oh bloody hell, the man is hopeless.....
>
> quite a chicken **** in person though:
>
>
> ----begin quote
> "
> Afraid not. I actually dislike this culture of pseudonyms, and have no
> idea who this person is. May Belt mentioned that I was being blamed for
> posts by this person, but I have had so many other things to attend to
> recently I haven't even had a chance to post on the PWB forum.
>
> I suspect there is little evidence to suggest it is me, and if everyone
> is
> so convinced, little I can do to change their minds. Although until
> last
> week, I hadn't even heard of that audio newsgroup.
>
> Richard Graham
>
>
>
> > are you "soundhaspriority"?
> "
> ----end quote
Fella
April 9th 06, 10:00 PM
wrote:
> Duh, that couldn't be because I'm NOT RICHARD GRAHAM, and you
> harassed someone in email and threatened them on this group that you
> stupidly thought was me, could it?
>
I thought that **** was behind us?
There is "thing" called timeline...
Man, you really are on drugs.
I dont care if you are richard graham. No longer.
> What are you proposing to do? Jump Dr. Graham when he leaves his flat,
> and beat him up for making you try an L-tweak?
i never said *i* would do anything to anybody
Fella
April 9th 06, 10:00 PM
wrote:
> Fella wrote:
>
wrote:
>> > Biogeometry, which I stole the L-shape audio tweak idea
>>
>>>from,
>>
>>ok so you *are* richard graham
>
>
> Oh bloody hell, the man is hopeless.....
>
>
Get off it man! It's no longer relevant!
Sander deWaal
April 9th 06, 10:20 PM
said:
<lotsa snips, but entire post saved for reference>
>If you look at the L-shape you'll see that it looks, not
>uncoincidentally, like an "L". But with the right angle removed. My
>studies (supporting Belt's research) have shown that all sharp right
>angles in the environment have an influence on our perception of sound.
>For this reason, I have "rounded off" the sharp corners of all my audio
>equipment and speakers, using dots to change the shape of the corners
>(same with my windows). I've also, as mentioned in a previous post,
>installed quarter round in the corners of the walls, for the same
>reason of changing the right angles to curves.
I can understand that.
Taking this a bit further, almost all PCBs in amplifiers, CD players
etc. are rectangular.
Is that why I have a preference for using no PCBs at all, ie. in my
tube amps I use point-to-point wiring.
Some DIY-ers say it has to do with the material of which the PCBs are
made, but could it also be because of their shape that the same
circuit sounds worse when built on a PCB, as opposed to building
point-to-point?
>Now your battery clock, can not, of course, have any direct influence
>in the electrical/electronic chain, that connects your hifi system. But
> I'd say yes, it's most probably having an influence on your sound,
>and I'd say it would be a negative one. Clocks are objects that
>apparently, have a particular significance in this area. At the very
>least, the plastic material and the battery, would be detrimental. How
>can you determine that? Listen to your system, then take the clock well
>out of your listening room, then listen again; carefully! If you need
>the clock there, I'd say it can possibly be changed into a positive
>object (one who's harmful effects is reduced, at least). I did say I
>did not succeed with my battery clock, but I meant I didn't succeed
>into turning it into a "Clever Little Clock". However, I did treatments
>to the clock (which included foil on the battery) to where if I kept
>it near my stereo, it slightly improved things.
I removed the clock and listened, but didn't detect a difference.
It's now back in place.
>> Is it reasonable to assume that everything has influence?
>Yes! What you heard with the 5-pinhole tweak was only the tip of the
>(quantum) iceberg. The influence of the environment on our perception
>of sound is so great, even I don't know all that's there, with all
>my research into the phenomena. I'm discovering new things nearly
>every day now, as I tinker with the bleeding edge of audio. But as you
>might imagine, I am very aware of things in my environment, and their
>influence on my perception of sound (from my hifi system). Everything
>that comes into my house gets considered, at least in the back of my
>mind. I try to minimize things that I posess, not just because I think
>it might have a negative impact on my stereo, but too much physical
>clutter might have a negative impact on other aspects of our well
>being. (I should perhaps mention I'm an adherent to the voluntary
>simplicity movement, so have other reasons to minimize clutter, besides
>audio-related ones).
I'm just starting to discover a whole new territory of experimenting,
thanks!
Makes me wonder what one could do when designing e.g. an amplifier
acoording to those principles........
I guess 'less is more" isn't just a phrase :-)
>With respect to the audio system, the things that concern me most are
>bar codes and magnets. Magnets are very interesting (and mysterious)
>objects actually, because I can use them to influence other objects
>(even non magnetic objects, such as water). Which I can in turn use to
>improve the sound of my stereo. There are other ways they can be used
>to influence sound positively, but in most other cases, they have a
>negative impact on sound. This especially includes tapes, since tapes
>have magnetic particles. Therefore, I make sure all videotapes and
>audio tapes are removed from the listening room. If the object with the
>bar code is to stay permanently in my environment (say a new computer
>keyboard), I either remove the label containing the bar code, or draw a
>line through it. Actually, just the labels on your audio equipment,
>whether or not they contain bar codes, can have an effect. I always
>remove all the labels.
But the largest magnets are in speakers, how can one direct their
influence in a good way?
>> Next I'll try the blue paper under the speaker and equipment feet.
>No, it's white paper! Plain blue paper goes under potted plants.
>Plain white paper goes under one of the equipment feet, if it has 4
>feet (the effect is like removing one of the feet). You don't need to
>stop at the equipment. For example, you have a coffee table with 4
>feet, or a chair, try the paper there as well (I admit, I haven't yet
>tried this under anything but audio components, as its one of the many
>things I haven't gotten around to trying yet). As for the speakers,
>I'm sure the white paper has benefits there as well, but I use toilet
>paper myself (one ply of plain toilet paper under the surface). In the
>case of the toilet paper, and maybe the white paper as well, the more
>contact your speaker makes with the floor, the better. Needless to say,
>you have to remove the spikes, if any. Even if you aren't doing this,
>all spikes and cones I've heard degrade sound.
I have spikes under my turntable, I'll try what the effect of removing
them is.
Further, all my equipment has 3 feet, as it will be more stable.
However, I'll try the paper underneath the feet as well.
One thing at a time.............
>Think about this: Most audiophiles think about improving their sound,
>but rarely if ever, think about removing things that might be degrading
>it.
That I can agree with.
The beauty of it all is that one doesn't have to buy expensive
pinpoints, stones, pebbles, or whatever to experiment with.
I listened all day to my system, and enjoyed it immensely.
So did "The She", of course. ;-)
It shouldn't come as a surprise to you that even my humble PC sound
system, which I am listening to at the moment, sounds better!
>I'd say you have a system of good resolution and good listening
>skills. You might find another odd effect coming into play at some
>point if you continue exploring advanced audio techniques (or perhaps
>you already have?). It is this: when you apply one of these
>alternative audio concepts to your environment, get used to the sound
>with the treatment in place, and then remove the treatment, you may
>perceive your sound quality as being worse than what you started with!
>(Replacing the treatment restores the sound quality 100%). I've
>experienced this phenomenon, and so have many others, but only with
>alternative tweaks, not with my conventional ones. There are reasons
>for this too lengthy to get into now, but it has to do with a standard
>of memory.
This is what happened, indeed.
>> I can't report similar findings from my wife, as she's chronically ill
>> and is always in pain.
>Maybe you should check out the biogeometry site (www.biogeometry.com).
>They sell specially made products with special symbols like the L
>shape, that are to be worn on the person, and are said to have
>beneficial health effects. While I don't advocate their products (I
>know very little about it, and never tried them), just from the fact
>that I know the L-shape has an effect on sound, who knows if simply
>using their products might have a beneficial effect on chronic illness.
>Of course, they don't advocate their products in place of medical
>treatment, or anything like that.
Thanks for the link, I'll look into it.
We're sensible enough to understand that regular medicine shouldn't be
discarded, but we're open to try anything that may be of help to
reduce her pain.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 9th 06, 10:23 PM
(paul packer) said:
>Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
>interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
>confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
>paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
>that would be only so much the worse.
This is not paranoia, think of it as being a kid going through a door
into a new house, discovering all that is there.
>>I mean, one can't get much closer than inside an amp.
>No. And remember that AC makes holes in your thumb.
Suddenly, I lost my ability to repair and build stuff?
Who's getting paranoid around here?
>But there'll be many more of those headaches before that day come
>around, Sander, trust me.
Does that mean you don't want to marry me anymore?
I'm heartbroken, Paul, really ;-)
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 9th 06, 10:24 PM
Steven Sullivan > said:
>It's actually a joke...but it might just work if I let
>go of my secure world view?
Oh dear, I should know better than to try humour with you.
>When did you become so credulous, Sander?
I didn't change, just added some new experience to my life.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Steven Sullivan
April 10th 06, 01:46 AM
Fella > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Duh, that couldn't be because I'm NOT RICHARD GRAHAM, and you
> > harassed someone in email and threatened them on this group that you
> > stupidly thought was me, could it?
> >
> I thought that **** was behind us?
> There is "thing" called timeline...
> Man, you really are on drugs.
It's about altering perception and consciousness, man.
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Steven Sullivan
April 10th 06, 01:48 AM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> (paul packer) said:
> >Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
> >interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
> >confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
> >paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
> >that would be only so much the worse.
> This is not paranoia, think of it as being a kid going through a door
> into a new house, discovering all that is there.
Kids tend to be into making up fantasy worlds, it's true.
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Steven Sullivan
April 10th 06, 01:51 AM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan > said:
> >It's actually a joke...but it might just work if I let
> >go of my secure world view?
> Oh dear, I should know better than to try humour with you.
Gosh, I'm trying it with you, in the form of sarcasm...is it working?
Maybe if you draw a unicorn and pin it to the computer.
> >When did you become so credulous, Sander?
> I didn't change, just added some new experience to my life.
I doubt what you're experiencing is new to you...or to
anyone, really. I'm pretty sure it's just a standard psychological
phenomenon.
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
>
> I can understand that.
> Taking this a bit further, almost all PCBs in amplifiers, CD players
> etc. are rectangular.
I know. That's why I cut off one of the corners of the PCB in my amp
and CD player, and crossover unit. (Obviously, you gotta be careful
with this and see what's on both sides, to be sure you're not
cutting off any traces!).
> Is that why I have a preference for using no PCBs at all, ie. in my
> tube amps I use point-to-point wiring.
No PCB, if you can get away with it, is I'm sure, a great thing. In
fact, no metal, if you can get away with that, is even more ideal! Some
of the best amps are made by DNM, and almost no metal! Obviously, this
is probably not practical with tubes, given the heat they put out.
Seems that most guys buy audio to compensate for small penises. They
think that for good sound you need to have gobs of metal, huge honkin
metal rack handles, power transformers that look like car batteries,
heatsinks that rival cowcatchers and a price that if it doesn't require
a second mortgage, you didn't pay enough. I just bought a Sonic Impact
amp that cost me $20 new, made in China entirely of plastic, runs on
batteries, puts out 10 watts on a good day if the THD doesn't hit
double digts, and rivals amps costing $3k.
> Some DIY-ers say it has to do with the material of which the PCBs are
> made, but could it also be because of their shape that the same
> circuit sounds worse when built on a PCB, as opposed to building
> point-to-point?
It's usually not black & white; I'd say it's both: influence of
material and shape. I am increasingly convinced that the "ideal" audio
component is made of nothing! (Because -everything- seems to have a
negative influence, unless you change it...). Of course, building a
component made of nothing is not practical either...
> I removed the clock and listened, but didn't detect a difference.
> It's now back in place.
If you press on with alternative ideas or products, you may want to
reassess the influence of the clock, once the system is at a higher
resolution.
> I'm just starting to discover a whole new territory of experimenting,
> thanks!
You're welcome. What else besides the 5-pinhole tweak have you
experimented with? Any ideas that did not result in audible changes?
> Makes me wonder what one could do when designing e.g. an amplifier
> acoording to those principles........
> I guess 'less is more" isn't just a phrase :-)
No, it's a credo that I live by, as an audiophile (and in general). I
also wondered what a designer could do following Beltist principles.
Some, I believe do, but they won't identify themselves. The first
thing you would notice, is the amp has no squared off corners, they'd
be rounded off. (This could be a design feature, but few would realize,
it also influences its sound!). Secondly, the amp would probably have a
minimum of metal, maybe a plastic casing. Third, the amp would have not
have right angles on the interior corners either (I put quarter round
in the corners of the inside of my amp, as a cheap means of doing
this). Fourth, the amp would have gone through some cryogenics
treatment. (I have frozen all of my stereo equipment in the fridge,
including my amp - if you're brave enough to do this and think you're
ready for it, I'll give you the proper instructions. It should be
safe even for a tube amp, if done properly).
> But the largest magnets are in speakers, how can one direct their
> influence in a good way?
There are many ways. As an example, in Britian in the 80's, thanks to
the ideas of Ivor Tiefenbrun (of Linn), it was widely believed that
reproducers (speakers) in the listening room was detrimental to the
sound. In fact, as a Linn dealer, you had to have what they call
"single speaker dems", where you couldn't demonstrate a pair of Linn
speakers if other speakers were in the room. But when Peter Belt
brought in one of his speakers into the room of a dealership, it was
noted that the speaker made a -positive- improvement to the other
speakers playing in the room! This was because he had so successfully
been able to treat the negative aspects of the speaker's (and its
magnet's) influence.
As mentioned in my last response, one of the ways that I did this was
by attaching an L-shape printout (or carefully drawing it) to the back
of the magnets. Some other ways included the use of cream electret (a
Belt product). It's a polarized cream that you spread very sparingly
on objects, and has amazing influences on the object it is used on. I
also used other Belt products on my speaker drivers, panels, crossover
and wires. In the end, after the tweaking was over, it was like
changing to a different set of speakers, but for a much lower overall
cost.
> I have spikes under my turntable, I'll try what the effect of removing
> them is.
Listen carefully at what's happening. Most people listen
superficially, and hear "tightness of bass, more detail, wider
soundstage" etc. What I found was that spikes (and I don't care where
they are located....) shifted harmonics to higher levels. This is akin
to say, having two photographs, one (the spikey photo) with a wider
view and more resolution, but where the colors, like orange, are more
saturated and not as true to the original scene. I'm essentially
saying that timbral colours are less natural when spikes are applied;
presumably because of the changes in resonant frequency caused by the
hard material. I had a Revolver once in the 80's that I glued metal
cones to, but I was just a "baby audiophile" then. One of my turntables
has no feet at all. My others have their stock feet, but I simply place
a white piece of paper under one, and leave things at that. If footfall
vibrations are really a problem, than there may be other solutions. (I
have a Target wall shelf, for example).
> Further, all my equipment has 3 feet, as it will be more stable.
> However, I'll try the paper underneath the feet as well.
> One thing at a time.............
If the component only has three feet, than the paper I am assuming,
will not work properly here. But I've never tested that.
> That I can agree with.
> The beauty of it all is that one doesn't have to buy expensive
> pinpoints, stones, pebbles, or whatever to experiment with.
I bought pebbles a few weeks ago. But not the expensive "good kind"
that Geoff Kait uses; dollar store decorative pebbles! I put them in a
glass jar on top of one speaker, just to experiment with, to see what
sort of effect they had. Well, they weren't the good kind! They made
a tiny bit of a difference, but not enough for me to keep the jar
there. I do experiment all the time with expensive (and relatively
inexpensive) Belt products mind you, but also as you can see, stuff
from the dollar store. Whenever I walk into a dollar store these days,
or something like that, I see the products on the shelves quite
differently than the retailer or manufacturers intended consumers to
see them. I'm often thinking "Hmmm... what can I do with that? I
wonder what this doodad sounds like?". I always end up buying things I
have no other use for, except to see what influence it might have on my
audio system.
> I listened all day to my system, and enjoyed it immensely.
> So did "The She", of course. ;-)
>
> It shouldn't come as a surprise to you that even my humble PC sound
> system, which I am listening to at the moment, sounds better!
No, it doesn't. Since all objects in our environments are linked,
changing one can influence the same perception of sound of another. Did
I tell you I also tweaked the business out of my PC sound system, with
alternative audio tweaks? (ie. there are l-shapes on each side of the
subwoofer's panels). Never sounded better.
> >I'd say you have a system of good resolution and good listening
> >skills. You might find another odd effect coming into play at some
> >point if you continue exploring advanced audio techniques (or perhaps
> >you already have?). It is this: when you apply one of these
> >alternative audio concepts to your environment, get used to the sound
> >with the treatment in place, and then remove the treatment, you may
> >perceive your sound quality as being worse than what you started with!
> >(Replacing the treatment restores the sound quality 100%). I've
> >experienced this phenomenon, and so have many others, but only with
> >alternative tweaks, not with my conventional ones. There are reasons
> >for this too lengthy to get into now, but it has to do with a standard
> >of memory.
>
>
> This is what happened, indeed.
Told you. The simple explanation is, our working memory of acceptable
sound changes each and every time we hear an upgrade. When it has to
return to a lower state of sound, it rejects the condition.
Sander deWaal wrote:
> (paul packer) said:
>
>
> >Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
> >interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
> >confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
> >paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
> >that would be only so much the worse.
>
>
> This is not paranoia, think of it as being a kid going through a door
> into a new house, discovering all that is there.
Twenty years later, I'm still that kid going through new doors,
discovering new things! It's sad for me to see that when people get
old, cranky, mentally withered and shut 3/4 of their mind down, they
forget how to be a kid and discover new things with a fresh, clear,
open mind.
paul packer wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Apr 2006 23:33:52 +0200, Sander deWaal >
> wrote:
>
> said:
> >Yup, have been an avid DIY-er all my life, except for loudspeakers.
> >Which brings me to my next question: if applying L-shapes close to
> >in/output jackets has the most effect, what can I do *inside* the
> >boxes?
> >I mean, one can't get much closer than inside an amp.
>
> No. And remember that AC makes holes in your thumb.
Assuming you're speaking from experience here. Holes in your head
too, it seems.
> Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
> interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
> confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
> paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
> that would be only so much the worse.
Newsflash: You ARE into a kind of paranoia. A paranoid fear of what you
don't understand. Superstition as old as mankind. How very primitive
of you, Packer. Since you say that if they work, you're even more
scared of the idea that you don't know audio or the world like you
thought you did, that says a lot about your level of paranoia. My
tweaks don't require "confidence". Only an open mind. You don't
even have that, so they're not for you.
>
> >Wouldn't have sticking L-shapes (or other symbols) to e.g. the power
> >transformer or output transistors even more of an influence?
>
> See above. Paranoia setting in fast now.
I can see. I doubt that anyone can help you with that.
> >Next I'll try the blue paper under the speaker and equipment feet.
>
> Cutting and pasting....cutting and pasting....
Try writing something original, and you wouldn't have to do that.
> >They did, I removed the paper today and immediately, I felt unhappy.
> >Not only with the sound, but also in general.
> >We had to go out of the house getting a cappuccino, and when we came
> >back I immediately put the paper back on the speaker.
>
> Yep. And I wonder what you were thinking about while sipping that
> cappuccino? Any guesses, group?
I'll hazard... "What if I tried applying the L-shape printout to the
back of my speakers as well?".
> >As I'll be digging deeper into the theory, I'm sure there will come a
> >day I'm able to figure out what's going on.
>
> But there'll be many more of those headaches before that day come
> around, Sander, trust me.
Trust you to ignorantly squawk about things you know nothing of,
Packer. That's all anyone can "trust" in you.
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Sander deWaal > wrote:
> > (paul packer) said:
>
>
> > >Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
> > >interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
> > >confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
> > >paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
> > >that would be only so much the worse.
>
>
> > This is not paranoia, think of it as being a kid going through a door
> > into a new house, discovering all that is there.
>
> Kids tend to be into making up fantasy worlds, it's true.
>
That must explain why you act like such a child here. Because you
create fantasy worlds about what audio and everything else is about. If
only you were a fraction as smart and knowledgable as you seem to think
you are, then you might be smart and knowledgable.
>
> ___
> -SHP
> "Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - Steven Sullivan
paul packer
April 10th 06, 08:12 AM
On 8 Apr 2006 23:21:29 -0700, wrote:
>
>Sander deWaal wrote:
>> said:
>>
>> <snips>
>>
>> >(http://www.geocities.com/soundhaspriority) was to demonstrate that
>> >shapes affect our perception of sound, much like say, cables and wires
>> >do. Since I suggested putting it in the back of your cd player, you
>> >don't even have to see the symbol for it to bear an effect. I feel
>> >the L-shape printout is a lot more powerful than the 5-pinhole paper
>> >tweak you tried, although I admit I did not compare them side by side.
>
>> you know, this made me think about something else:
>> If some shapes and constructions are influencing what I'm hearing, how
>> about the (inadvertently) shapes and symbols that are already in the
>> vicinity of my system that I don't know about?
>> What is their influence?
>
>You would be surprised. When I said "shapes and symbols" influence our
>perception of sound, I didn't simply mean what you draw on the
>equipment or other objects, but the shapes that are already part of the
>environment. Biogeometry, which I stole the L-shape audio tweak idea
>from, is in fact the study of shapes and symbols in the environment,
>and its influence on our mental health, or other living things, such as
>crops.
>
>If you look at the L-shape you'll see that it looks, not
>uncoincidentally, like an "L". But with the right angle removed. My
>studies (supporting Belt's research) have shown that all sharp right
>angles in the environment have an influence on our perception of sound.
>For this reason, I have "rounded off" the sharp corners of all my audio
>equipment and speakers, using dots to change the shape of the corners
>(same with my windows). I've also, as mentioned in a previous post,
>installed quarter round in the corners of the walls, for the same
>reason of changing the right angles to curves.
>
>> Let's say I have a battery-powered clock with Roman digits hanging
>> close above my system, does that something to the sound?
>> If so, how can I determine that?
>
>Interesting you should mention clocks. I tried creating a battery
>powered LCD clock that I could place atop my stereo to improve the
>sound (inspired by Geoff Kait's "Clever Little Clock", which is also
>based on alternative audio techniques).... did not succeed, though. (I
>did however succeed many years ago at improving things by plugging an
>LED clock with large digits, into the same outlet as my amp - but
>because it does have an electrical connection to the audio system, I
>believe the electric clock may be operating on more conventional
>Newtonian physics).
>
>Now your battery clock, can not, of course, have any direct influence
>in the electrical/electronic chain, that connects your hifi system. But
> I'd say yes, it's most probably having an influence on your sound,
>and I'd say it would be a negative one. Clocks are objects that
>apparently, have a particular significance in this area. At the very
>least, the plastic material and the battery, would be detrimental. How
>can you determine that? Listen to your system, then take the clock well
>out of your listening room, then listen again; carefully! If you need
>the clock there, I'd say it can possibly be changed into a positive
>object (one who's harmful effects is reduced, at least). I did say I
>did not succeed with my battery clock, but I meant I didn't succeed
>into turning it into a "Clever Little Clock". However, I did treatments
>to the clock (which included foil on the battery) to where if I kept
>it near my stereo, it slightly improved things.
>
>> How about LPs with pictures and text that are actually on shelves in
>> the closet that my gear is in/on?
>
>I hate to say this, but most objects are likely to have a detrimental
>effect, but if so, if they can be treated, the harmful effect can be
>reduced. This however, requires some dedication, if you have many LPs
>(and some expense, perhaps). It may or may not be practical, depending
>on your situation. I don't know if the picture and text is going to
>be of any particular significance (even if it is, you can't do
>anything about it save for taking the records out of the listening
>room), but if there are bar codes on the back, then yes. (They can be
>crossed out, I use a special marker to do this). The LPs should be
>stacked upright, and you might try just removing one LP from the room,
>to see if that changes things for better or worse (or no effect).
>
>> The problem is, I'm getting pretty insecure at the moment that all
>> kinds of things have influence.
>
>Welcome to my world! You can't see it, you can't feel it, you
>can't touch it... but quantum reality is all around us. It may
>require a paradigm shift in thinking to accept, but once you stop
>fighting that reality, you become part of another one.
>
>> Is it reasonable to assume that everything has influence?
>
>Yes! What you heard with the 5-pinhole tweak was only the tip of the
>(quantum) iceberg. The influence of the environment on our perception
>of sound is so great, even I don't know all that's there, with all
>my research into the phenomena. I'm discovering new things nearly
>every day now, as I tinker with the bleeding edge of audio. But as you
>might imagine, I am very aware of things in my environment, and their
>influence on my perception of sound (from my hifi system). Everything
>that comes into my house gets considered, at least in the back of my
>mind. I try to minimize things that I posess, not just because I think
>it might have a negative impact on my stereo, but too much physical
>clutter might have a negative impact on other aspects of our well
>being. (I should perhaps mention I'm an adherent to the voluntary
>simplicity movement, so have other reasons to minimize clutter, besides
>audio-related ones).
>
>With respect to the audio system, the things that concern me most are
>bar codes and magnets. Magnets are very interesting (and mysterious)
>objects actually, because I can use them to influence other objects
>(even non magnetic objects, such as water). Which I can in turn use to
>improve the sound of my stereo. There are other ways they can be used
>to influence sound positively, but in most other cases, they have a
>negative impact on sound. This especially includes tapes, since tapes
>have magnetic particles. Therefore, I make sure all videotapes and
>audio tapes are removed from the listening room. If the object with the
>bar code is to stay permanently in my environment (say a new computer
>keyboard), I either remove the label containing the bar code, or draw a
>line through it. Actually, just the labels on your audio equipment,
>whether or not they contain bar codes, can have an effect. I always
>remove all the labels.
>
>> Yup, have been an avid DIY-er all my life, except for loudspeakers.
>> Which brings me to my next question: if applying L-shapes close to
>> in/output jackets has the most effect, what can I do *inside* the
>> boxes?
>
>Everything. I recently took my (dynamic) speakers apart, and treated
>almost every object in or around the box. The cream electret I
>mentioned once, was used to treat the crossover, as well as the
>woofer/mid/tweeter cones. Other Belt products were used to treat all
>the wiring, and the wiring was set up in "special ways". The acoustic
>insulation was specially treated, "morphic messages" were written on
>various components and thick L-shapes were drawn on the backs of the
>magnets of the drivers (if you have to draw the shape, don't just do
>a thin one-line drawing as Fella did; you have to follow the
>instructions I gave). Further to that, some L-shape printouts were made
>and one copy was affixed each to all walls of each speaker. That's
>how I started the project, anyway...
>
>> I mean, one can't get much closer than inside an amp.
>
>I've gotten inside every single component in my system to treat it
>using advanced alternative audio techniques. Including the empty jacks.
>
>> Wouldn't have sticking L-shapes (or other symbols) to e.g. the power
>> transformer or output transistors even more of an influence?
>> And again, would that be for better or for worse?
>
>Some of the materials I work with are specially treated types of foil.
>These foils can be applied pretty much anywhere (CDs, audio equipment,
>tvs, etc), and will influence the sound (or image). Since they're
>kind of expensive to stick everywhere, I did research to find out what
>effect they'd have at different particular places in my amplifier,
>and after positioning and repositioning them at various locations
>around the PCB board and some of its components, I found that quality
>of sound was always best near entrance or exit locations. Just to
>clarify, they will have an effect anywhere, but the best overall sound
>quality is derived from these specific locations. Although I didn't
>do the same tests on the L-shape, I know that it will follow the same
>principles as the foils I tested. I don't recall if I tested the
>foil on the transformer, but I may not have, because it isn't located
>near the exit or entrance path. While I don't have any L-shapes on my
>transformer, I do have aspirins and other things taped to the floor
>around the transformer in my cd player (and I think my amp...).
>
>> Or shoudn't I worry about it and just try?
>
>Ideally, you should just try if you're at all worried about degrading
>the sonic integrity of your system. But you have to have good listening
>skills if you're going to forge such paths on your own. Because all
>the possible combinations means being able to determine if a change has
>any detrimental impact whatsoever, in seconds (for me, anyway). I use
>headphones, not speakers to do these kinds of detailed "microtests".
>They take much less time to conclude things. I would not draw the shape
>directly on the transformer, if it isn't an ideal location (and the
>BMP image I made prints out to a size much larger than necessary for a
>PT). So the best thing is to draw it on plain white paper (which you
>adhere with scotch tape) or a white mailing address label; then you can
>remove it and replace it, at will.
>
>> A4 is a standardized size of paper, at least here on the continent of
>> Europe.
>
>Yeah, I know what it is, I just don't remember its exact dimensions.
>If the size worked for you, then I guess it isn't too large, but I
>have not experimented with different sizes for the 5-pinhole tweak.
>
>> I made a new device without glue, and taped it at the back of the MG1,
>> near the terminals, where it still doesn't interfere with the
>> radiation from the backside.
>>
>> A slight improvement, but not as much as the one before the first
>> tweak with the glue still in place.
>> This is actually very subtle.
>
>Still, you found it was an improvement, right. We're talking a small
>amount of glue, and yet you were able to hear the effects of a small
>amount of glue near (not even on!) your speakers. So now after finding
>out that paper, holes, aspirin and animal pictures can all have an
>effect on sound, you just added "glue" to the list as well.
>
>> Next I'll try the blue paper under the speaker and equipment feet.
>
>No, it's white paper! Plain blue paper goes under potted plants.
>Plain white paper goes under one of the equipment feet, if it has 4
>feet (the effect is like removing one of the feet). You don't need to
>stop at the equipment. For example, you have a coffee table with 4
>feet, or a chair, try the paper there as well (I admit, I haven't yet
>tried this under anything but audio components, as its one of the many
>things I haven't gotten around to trying yet). As for the speakers,
>I'm sure the white paper has benefits there as well, but I use toilet
>paper myself (one ply of plain toilet paper under the surface). In the
>case of the toilet paper, and maybe the white paper as well, the more
>contact your speaker makes with the floor, the better. Needless to say,
>you have to remove the spikes, if any. Even if you aren't doing this,
>all spikes and cones I've heard degrade sound.
>
>Think about this: Most audiophiles think about improving their sound,
>but rarely if ever, think about removing things that might be degrading
>it.
>
>> >Now imagine that "sense of easiness" and "effortlessness" multiplied by
>> >100 times. That too is possible, once you really get into alternative
>> >audio. What I'm saying is that, I do believe those other things you
>> >mentioned likely did have an influence from the 5-pinhole tweak, but
>> >you picked up on the reduction of hifi hash aspect ("sense of
>> >easiness"), because that stood out most. I say that because there are
>> >many techniques I've used that follow the same principles as the
>> >simple little 5-pinhole paper device. I can tell you without flinching
>> >that they can produce "extra information, broadening of the soundstage,
>> >deepening as well, better imaging (focusing)" and things like that.
>> >Just the L-shape alone, if properly applied, can do all those things,
>> >IMHO.
>>
>>
>> I won't say it is impossible, after what happened this week.
>
>> They did, I removed the paper today and immediately, I felt unhappy.
>> Not only with the sound, but also in general.
>
>I don't think that's a coincidence, btw. Many customers of PWB (the
>company that makes weird little audio products based on the ideas and
>tweaks I've discussed) have reported experiencing that effect
>(although I can't say I have, simply because I've never yet removed
>all the treatments I did to my environment!). To understand this, you
>have to understand what is at play when you attempt to change energy
>patterns on objects by such devices as the 5-pinhole device. Again,
>greatly oversimplifying Sheldrake's biological research, which argues
>that we still retain our primordial senses, and that objects in our
>modern environment carry energy patterns that on some level, we react
>to, as we did when we first evolved. The modern objects around us
>confuse these primordial senses, because they are not natural to us
>(not even the wood trim of the Maggies, because it is no longer living
>wood). Reduce the adverse effects of such objects, and you improve your
>senses. The question is, what do these "senses" consist of? Well I know
>that reducing the "negative" aspects of this energy in your environment
>(ie. speakers) bears an effect on sight, and sound (yes, I've been
>able to improve my video picture as well, with such alternative
>techniques). But since those are only two senses, it would be
>presumptious to believe it stops there, so it could very well have an
>effect on other senses, that affect our mood.
>
>> We had to go out of the house getting a cappuccino, and when we came
>> back I immediately put the paper back on the speaker.
>
>I'd say you have a system of good resolution and good listening
>skills. You might find another odd effect coming into play at some
>point if you continue exploring advanced audio techniques (or perhaps
>you already have?). It is this: when you apply one of these
>alternative audio concepts to your environment, get used to the sound
>with the treatment in place, and then remove the treatment, you may
>perceive your sound quality as being worse than what you started with!
>(Replacing the treatment restores the sound quality 100%). I've
>experienced this phenomenon, and so have many others, but only with
>alternative tweaks, not with my conventional ones. There are reasons
>for this too lengthy to get into now, but it has to do with a standard
>of memory.
>
>> I can't report similar findings from my wife, as she's chronically ill
>> and is always in pain.
>
>Maybe you should check out the biogeometry site (www.biogeometry.com).
>They sell specially made products with special symbols like the L
>shape, that are to be worn on the person, and are said to have
>beneficial health effects. While I don't advocate their products (I
>know very little about it, and never tried them), just from the fact
>that I know the L-shape has an effect on sound, who knows if simply
>using their products might have a beneficial effect on chronic illness.
>Of course, they don't advocate their products in place of medical
>treatment, or anything like that.
>
>> Well, I pretty much always did my own thing, so I don't think of it
>> as "very courageous".
>
>I always did my own thing as well (as I'm doing right now on this
>group....), and I don't consider not listening to others in terms of
>"courageous" either. But I have to point out the fact that most people
>are scared silly to even go near anything they don't understand, and
>that other ignorant people will ridicule them for. Look at Fella's
>reaction after he claims he tried one of my tweaks, and went on a week
>long kook-out after he couldn't figure out how to do it properly...
>which he's -still- on!. So in overall terms in our society, it does
>appear "courageous".
>
>> What saddens me though is the hostile reactions you get.
>
>Strange, huh? Well, I know it's only a fraction of what Belt gets
>around places where mindless sheep mill about to chew cud (and chew out
>each other), and AFAIC, he's one of the true geniuses of audio. So I
>wear my hostile reactions as a red badge of courage. You could almost
>say the more that I receive, the more enlightened I feel, and the more
>glad I am that I am an independent thinker, and not a mindless sheep,
>like all of those who would mindlessly attack me, without question,
>without thinking, without trying anything.
>
>
>> So no one understands what makes your tweaks work, fine.
>
>Hell, even I barely understand it all! It never stopped me from trying
>and enjoying them. But as we've seen ever since I stepped foot into
>the pig farm that is RAO, people will think nothing of nattering on for
>5 weeks and hundreds of messages arguing about how the tweaks are silly
>and can't work, when it would probably take 30 seconds for them to
>find out which one of us two is the dumb, silly, and insane (or a
>narrow-minded bigot, for that matter...).
>
>> Is that reason enough to attack you so fiercely?
>
>Apparently, so. Have you read some of Fella's messages to me
>recently?! Or even J. Borg Jr.s? I've never seen so many curse words
>outside of a Tourett's Syndrome Sufferer's Town Hall meeting. But
>on a sociological level, it's fascinating to me. It says many sad
>things about the pitiful state of the society we live in.The social
>conditing that teaches people to ridicule others who act or think
>differently than the norm (aka mindless sheep). This same conditioning
>that makes it nearly impossible to advance science and our
>understanding of the world, since you have to jump through thousands of
>hoops just to get your ideas tabled, let alone recognized. Particularly
>if you are coming out of left field studying previously (completely)
>unkown phenomena.
>
>
>> I, too, do not understand (or pretend to) what is going on or what
>> makes the tweaks work (the very little I've read on the internet about
>> Sheldrake's work didn't explain anything about the possible mechanisms
>> that make the audio tweaks work),
>
>You won't find anything about audio in Sheldrake's work. You have
>to look at Belt's research for that, to see where he applies
>Sheldrake's findings to his own, because he discovered much in the
>way of sound phenomena that fits the patterns of morphic resonance
>theory. Not unlike the way I discovered sound phenomena derived from
>Dr. Emoto's research ("Messages From Water"), which has nothing to do
>with audio either.
>
>> but I'm willing to accept for now
>> that it works, period.
>
>All the ideas I've shared work. Period. I've confirmed all that
>with thorough objective-subjective testing, and in most cases, many
>others have as well.
>
>> I'm just a simple techie, who apparently happens to be a bit more open
>> minded that most.............
>>
>> As I'll be digging deeper into the theory, I'm sure there will come a
>> day I'm able to figure out what's going on.
>
>I've heard it said that if you can figure out what's going on in
>quantum mechanics, then it means you don't understand it very well!
How fast do you type?
wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
> > Sander deWaal > wrote:
> > > (paul packer) said:
> >
> >
> > > >Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
> > > >interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
> > > >confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
> > > >paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
> > > >that would be only so much the worse.
> >
> >
> > > This is not paranoia, think of it as being a kid going through a door
> > > into a new house, discovering all that is there.
> >
> > Kids tend to be into making up fantasy worlds, it's true.
> >
> That must explain why you act like such a child here. Because you
> create fantasy worlds about what audio and everything else is
about. If
> only you were a fraction as smart and knowledgable as you seem to
think
> you are, then you might be smart and knowledgable.
This is the basic fundamental theory behind Skippy's alter-ego's work.
Mirroring his own qualifications, and rationalizing it in his responses
to those that critique his "science"
I'm waiting for the DIY project of his using SMD's with no PCB's
paul packer
April 10th 06, 12:24 PM
On 9 Apr 2006 20:32:32 -0700, wrote:
>> Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
>> interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
>> confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
>> paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
>> that would be only so much the worse.
>
>Newsflash: You ARE into a kind of paranoia. A paranoid fear of what you
>don't understand. Superstition as old as mankind. How very primitive
>of you, Packer. Since you say that if they work, you're even more
>scared of the idea that you don't know audio or the world like you
>thought you did, that says a lot about your level of paranoia. My
>tweaks don't require "confidence". Only an open mind. You don't
>even have that, so they're not for you.
In your rush to rant you've missed the point, Mr. Sound (or is it
"Jamie" now?). Which is that I don't want to spend my life endlessly
followed a trail of L-shapes and pinholes. And I think you'll agree
from your own experience that "endlessly" is no exaggeration. You may
be a kid in a candy shop but I'm not. I've been into hi-fi since 1966
and learned enough to know how the pursuit of tweaks can thoroughly
and consistently thwart the pursuit of enjoying music.
Notice I say "enjoying music", not "listening to music". There's
plenty of listening to music, or sound at least, in tweak-pursuing,
but not much enjoyment of it. OK, maybe I'm an old fart who's lost his
wonder at the world, but I'm allowed to be---it's my choice. Why do I
have to put up with some loquacious interloper berating me for failing
to work up the enthusiasm to cut and paste things to my speakers or
smear my glasses with cream? So not fear but weariness and cynicism is
my problem, Mr. Sound. I just want to listen to music and maybe
compare amplifiers, which is fun. I don't care whether your tweaks
work or not; I'm past all that. Get used to it.
To that end I now formally withdraw my criticism and ridicule of your
tweaks and express my profound regret for past utterances. I just
don't care anymore. Happy cutting and pasting.
Goodbye cruel hi-fi world.
(Sharp report of gunshot. Thud of body striking floor).
Robert Morein
April 10th 06, 12:41 PM
"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On 9 Apr 2006 20:32:32 -0700, wrote:
>
>
>>> Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
>>> interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
>>> confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
>>> paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
>>> that would be only so much the worse.
>>
>>Newsflash: You ARE into a kind of paranoia. A paranoid fear of what you
>>don't understand. Superstition as old as mankind. How very primitive
>>of you, Packer. Since you say that if they work, you're even more
>>scared of the idea that you don't know audio or the world like you
>>thought you did, that says a lot about your level of paranoia. My
>>tweaks don't require "confidence". Only an open mind. You don't
>>even have that, so they're not for you.
>
> In your rush to rant you've missed the point, Mr. Sound (or is it
> "Jamie" now?). Which is that I don't want to spend my life endlessly
> followed a trail of L-shapes and pinholes. And I think you'll agree
> from your own experience that "endlessly" is no exaggeration. You may
> be a kid in a candy shop but I'm not. I've been into hi-fi since 1966
> and learned enough to know how the pursuit of tweaks can thoroughly
> and consistently thwart the pursuit of enjoying music.
>
> Notice I say "enjoying music", not "listening to music". There's
> plenty of listening to music, or sound at least, in tweak-pursuing,
> but not much enjoyment of it. OK, maybe I'm an old fart who's lost his
> wonder at the world, but I'm allowed to be---it's my choice. Why do I
> have to put up with some loquacious interloper berating me for failing
> to work up the enthusiasm to cut and paste things to my speakers or
> smear my glasses with cream? So not fear but weariness and cynicism is
> my problem, Mr. Sound. I just want to listen to music and maybe
> compare amplifiers, which is fun. I don't care whether your tweaks
> work or not; I'm past all that. Get used to it.
>
> To that end I now formally withdraw my criticism and ridicule of your
> tweaks and express my profound regret for past utterances. I just
> don't care anymore. Happy cutting and pasting.
>
> Goodbye cruel hi-fi world.
>
> (Sharp report of gunshot. Thud of body striking floor).
I agree, Paul. I can always imagine the tweaks if I want to. There is
probably a hairy eight-legged creature sitting under a piece of paper on my
hifi system anyway.
Fella
April 10th 06, 01:09 PM
paul packer wrote:
>
> Goodbye cruel hi-fi world.
>
> (Sharp report of gunshot. Thud of body striking floor).
Come on Paul, no need for that. Please undo that suicide and think about
it, is it worth it? It's the privacy of your own home ferchrissakes. No
one is watching over you. Just take a photo of an animal, a piece of
white blank paper, etc, you know, and do the tweak and do some
listening. You really owe it to yourself.
And this call I extend not only to Paul, but aul, that is, all. Whatever
the results you need not ever speak about them to anyone. You can go on
fighting with SHP ol' chum here even after the possible profound
positive experience! You can go on laughing at me and Sander for trying
the "silly" tweak. No one needs to know. No one needs to even get a
slightest hint. It costs next to nothing. Doesn't come with any legal
obligation (but perhaps at least an ethical obligation to stop fighting
with SHP). Takes about a minute to implement. And takes about a second
to un-implement should the "results" scare you or should you feel really
silly for having heard something or other..
It is such a wonderful experience though (should you guys experience it)
such a silly, magical experience. I did the ABX "rituals" in my time and
in retrospect *they* were much sillier, yes, but at the same very very
much bereft of anything resembling "pleasant". All that's left from
those abx rituals was that uncomfortable labrat feeling that had
*nothing* to do with enjoying music. From *this* "ritual" there is the
living *intimate* memory of the last "tweaked" album I listened to
(Buena Vista Social Club presents Ibrahim Ferrer) the feeling I had that
there was absolutely nothing artificial about the music coming at me
from that very much so artificial system... If music is about intimacy
to you people then...
I don't think this is like some narcotics though. I don't think it will
induce further "tweaking". I don't think this "stuff" can induce any
kind of biological addiction of any sorts... :) Hope not, at least...
And if it "wears off", as Morein so eloquently suggests to Sander, then
it wears off. In fact, my only problem with this tweak is that it was
hard to stop listening to the untweaked system and now after the tweak
it is downright impossible to hit the "stop" button and get up from that
chair.
Steven Sullivan
April 10th 06, 04:24 PM
Fella > wrote:
> paul packer wrote:
> >
> > Goodbye cruel hi-fi world.
> >
> > (Sharp report of gunshot. Thud of body striking floor).
> Come on Paul, no need for that. Please undo that suicide and think about
> it, is it worth it? It's the privacy of your own home ferchrissakes. No
> one is watching over you. Just take a photo of an animal, a piece of
> white blank paper, etc, you know, and do the tweak and do some
> listening. You really owe it to yourself.
> And this call I extend not only to Paul, but aul, that is, all. Whatever
> the results you need not ever speak about them to anyone. You can go on
> fighting with SHP ol' chum here even after the possible profound
> positive experience! You can go on laughing at me and Sander for trying
> the "silly" tweak. No one needs to know. No one needs to even get a
> slightest hint. It costs next to nothing. Doesn't come with any legal
> obligation (but perhaps at least an ethical obligation to stop fighting
> with SHP). Takes about a minute to implement. And takes about a second
> to un-implement should the "results" scare you or should you feel really
> silly for having heard something or other..
> It is such a wonderful experience though (should you guys experience it)
> such a silly, magical experience. I did the ABX "rituals" in my time and
> in retrospect *they* were much sillier, yes, but at the same very very
> much bereft of anything resembling "pleasant". All that's left from
> those abx rituals was that uncomfortable labrat feeling that had
> *nothing* to do with enjoying music. From *this* "ritual" there is the
> living *intimate* memory of the last "tweaked" album I listened to
> (Buena Vista Social Club presents Ibrahim Ferrer) the feeling I had that
> there was absolutely nothing artificial about the music coming at me
> from that very much so artificial system... If music is about intimacy
> to you people then...
> I don't think this is like some narcotics though. I don't think it will
> induce further "tweaking". I don't think this "stuff" can induce any
> kind of biological addiction of any sorts... :) Hope not, at least...
> And if it "wears off", as Morein so eloquently suggests to Sander, then
> it wears off. In fact, my only problem with this tweak is that it was
> hard to stop listening to the untweaked system and now after the tweak
> it is downright impossible to hit the "stop" button and get up from that
> chair.
Upon consideration of this post,
I'll take the 'keep laughing at you and Shippy' option, thanks.
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 05:50 PM
Steven Sullivan > said:
>I doubt what you're experiencing is new to you...or to
>anyone, really. I'm pretty sure it's just a standard psychological
>phenomenon.
So what are you afraid of?
Just try the tweak, and see for yourself.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 05:51 PM
said:
>> Yep. And I wonder what you were thinking about while sipping that
>> cappuccino? Any guesses, group?
>I'll hazard... "What if I tried applying the L-shape printout to the
>back of my speakers as well?".
Why am I not surprised that you knew this? ;-)
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 05:58 PM
(paul packer) said:
>In your rush to rant you've missed the point, Mr. Sound (or is it
>"Jamie" now?). Which is that I don't want to spend my life endlessly
>followed a trail of L-shapes and pinholes. And I think you'll agree
>from your own experience that "endlessly" is no exaggeration. You may
>be a kid in a candy shop but I'm not. I've been into hi-fi since 1966
>and learned enough to know how the pursuit of tweaks can thoroughly
>and consistently thwart the pursuit of enjoying music.
That probably depends on how you do it.
All those years, I frantically replaced capacitors, tubes, resistors
etc., and felt the need to build a new amplifier as soon as the solder
joints of the one I was working on were barely cold.
That doesn't mean I won't build anything again, it's just that there's
so much more to explore that doesn't cost as much in both time and
money.
>Notice I say "enjoying music", not "listening to music". There's
>plenty of listening to music, or sound at least, in tweak-pursuing,
>but not much enjoyment of it. OK, maybe I'm an old fart who's lost his
>wonder at the world, but I'm allowed to be---it's my choice. Why do I
>have to put up with some loquacious interloper berating me for failing
>to work up the enthusiasm to cut and paste things to my speakers or
>smear my glasses with cream? So not fear but weariness and cynicism is
>my problem, Mr. Sound. I just want to listen to music and maybe
>compare amplifiers, which is fun. I don't care whether your tweaks
>work or not; I'm past all that. Get used to it.
I'm intensely enjoying music now, I realize that I may have lost that
goal in my electronic experiments.
Comparing amplifiers is just a small fraction of the total package
that the audio hobby can offer.
Why confine yourself into your small room, open that door and enter
the new world outside!
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 05:59 PM
said:
>I'm waiting for the DIY project of his using SMD's with no PCB's
I have something like that in the pipeline, actually.
It's a RIAA preamplifier that fits in the headshell behind the
cartridge, using 0603 components (being the smallest size I can handle
with standard soldering equipment).
There's no PCB, it's all hard wired onto eachother.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
ScottW
April 10th 06, 06:21 PM
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
>
> <lotsa snips, but entire post saved for reference>
>
>
> >If you look at the L-shape you'll see that it looks, not
> >uncoincidentally, like an "L". But with the right angle removed. My
> >studies (supporting Belt's research) have shown that all sharp right
> >angles in the environment have an influence on our perception of sound.
> >For this reason, I have "rounded off" the sharp corners of all my audio
> >equipment and speakers, using dots to change the shape of the corners
> >(same with my windows). I've also, as mentioned in a previous post,
> >installed quarter round in the corners of the walls, for the same
> >reason of changing the right angles to curves.
>
>
> I can understand that.
> Taking this a bit further, almost all PCBs in amplifiers, CD players
> etc. are rectangular.
> Is that why I have a preference for using no PCBs at all, ie. in my
> tube amps I use point-to-point wiring.
> Some DIY-ers say it has to do with the material of which the PCBs are
> made, but could it also be because of their shape that the same
> circuit sounds worse when built on a PCB, as opposed to building
> point-to-point?
>
If in fact true... I would look to the PCB characteristics that most
DIYers have very limited ability to control. Impedance and signal
isolation problems that are easier to avoid in point to point when one
isn't experienced and have access to the proper tools for PCB layout
and modelling. One of our most expensive CAD tools is PCB placement,
routing and modelling. Obviously though... point to point is only an
option in low density circuits and becomes increasingly difficult for
SS DIY'ers as small footprint surface mount packages become the only
package option for many components.
ScottW
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 06:45 PM
"ScottW" > said:
> If in fact true... I would look to the PCB characteristics that most
>DIYers have very limited ability to control. Impedance and signal
>isolation problems that are easier to avoid in point to point when one
>isn't experienced and have access to the proper tools for PCB layout
>and modelling. One of our most expensive CAD tools is PCB placement,
>routing and modelling.
I have software to create schematics, PC boards and their gerber files
as well, both for my current job, as for my hobby projects.
Making a suitable PCB isn't very hard to do, not even (or: even
better) in the case of SMT devices.
I have done experiments with the exact same (tube) circuit build on a
PCB and as a point-to-point wired circuit.
The latter sounded better to me, despite the use of turret lugs,
mounted in a base plate of glas fibre.
So I reckon it is not just the *material* that is responsible.
Maybe the shape is? ;-)
>Obviously though... point to point is only an
>option in low density circuits and becomes increasingly difficult for
>SS DIY'ers as small footprint surface mount packages become the only
>package option for many components.
I know, and sadly, this will make the hobby more or less inaccessable
for the new generations.
Unless they buy hot air soldering guns from the start, that is.
I remember how I got started with the hobby as an 8-year old,
scavenging the streets amd dumpsters for old TVs and radios,
dismantling them for parts.
Those days are long gone, sadly.
I'm fortunate enough to have stashed away enough through-hole
components to last a lifetime (and longer).
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
paul packer wrote:
> On 9 Apr 2006 20:32:32 -0700, wrote:
>
>
> >> Yep, now you're getting close to the reason I wasn't in the least
> >> interested in Mr. Sound's tweaks. Not (only) because I had no
> >> confidence in them, but because I didn't want to get into that kind of
> >> paranoia. And if they seemed to be working, as they seem to to you,
> >> that would be only so much the worse.
> >
> >Newsflash: You ARE into a kind of paranoia. A paranoid fear of what you
> >don't understand. Superstition as old as mankind. How very primitive
> >of you, Packer. Since you say that if they work, you're even more
> >scared of the idea that you don't know audio or the world like you
> >thought you did, that says a lot about your level of paranoia. My
> >tweaks don't require "confidence". Only an open mind. You don't
> >even have that, so they're not for you.
>
> In your rush to rant you've missed the point, Mr. Sound (or is it
> "Jamie" now?).
It's a lot of things, but that's neither here nor there. I don't
want to confuse you any more than I know how much you already are
confused. Suffice to say, it was never "Richard Graham". That was your
foolishness, and that of Robert Moron's, Goofball's, Shovels, and
many others.
And in your rush to provide a hostile attack, you delude yourself into
believing a reasoned response is now a "rant".
>Which is that I don't want to spend my life endlessly
> followed a trail of L-shapes and pinholes. And I think you'll agree
> from your own experience that "endlessly" is no exaggeration. You may
> be a kid in a candy shop but I'm not. I've been into hi-fi since 1966
> and learned enough to know how the pursuit of tweaks can thoroughly
> and consistently thwart the pursuit of enjoying music.
False. I have no problem enjoying music. I'm sure I have a closer
connection to music than you do, and enjoy it more. Listening to music
is not the only thing I can in life, however. Unlike you, but perhaps
its because you are geriatric, and home bound? Tweaking is something
I've always done because unlike you, I have a natural curiousity
about audio, and the world around me. One doesn't have to obviate the
other.
You have a very hostile position, which says a lot about your fears and
insecurities. No one here asked you to follow trails of Lshapes and
pinholes. The tweaks are there for those want them, not for those who
don't. That said, trying one of them takes 30 seconds and the purpose
of doing so, is merely to be able to confirm for yourself whether you
are right in your thinking about audio, or whether I am right when I
say you are wrong and ignorant about audio. But if you are afraid
you'll become addicted to stick animal pictures everywhere in your
home, maybe you shouldn't then. Like I said, its not for everyone.
>
> Notice I say "enjoying music", not "listening to music". There's
> plenty of listening to music, or sound at least, in tweak-pursuing,
> but not much enjoyment of it. OK, maybe I'm an old fart who's lost his
> wonder at the world, but I'm allowed to be---it's my choice. Why do I
> have to put up with some loquacious interloper berating me for failing
> to work up the enthusiasm to cut and paste things to my speakers or
> smear my glasses with cream? So not fear but weariness and cynicism is
> my problem, Mr. Sound. I just want to listen to music and maybe
> compare amplifiers, which is fun. I don't care whether your tweaks
> work or not; I'm past all that. Get used to it.
Now THAT'S what I call a "rant". "Loquacious interloper berating
you?!" Haw! What a kook. I can tell by your hostile defensive attitude
that there's more going on here than you say there is. A lot more.
Obviously, the idea of the tweaks challenges your world view. And you
yourself admitted that you're a weary, cynical old fart, Mr. Packer.
Cynical old farts don't want their world view changed. They like
their blinkers exactly where they are, thank you very much. Your
prerogative Mr. Packer. No one's trying to steal your cane out from
under you. God I sure hope I don't ever get as old as you, though,
where I lose my natural sense of curiousity.
> To that end I now formally withdraw my criticism and ridicule of your
> tweaks and express my profound regret for past utterances. I just
> don't care anymore. Happy cutting and pasting.
>
> Goodbye cruel hi-fi world.
>
> (Sharp report of gunshot. Thud of body striking floor).
Welp, that's one less sheep in the flock. The others are gonna have
to start breeding again....
ScottW
April 10th 06, 07:31 PM
Sander deWaal wrote:
> "ScottW" > said:
>
>
> > If in fact true... I would look to the PCB characteristics that most
> >DIYers have very limited ability to control. Impedance and signal
> >isolation problems that are easier to avoid in point to point when one
> >isn't experienced and have access to the proper tools for PCB layout
> >and modelling. One of our most expensive CAD tools is PCB placement,
> >routing and modelling.
>
>
> I have software to create schematics, PC boards and their gerber files
> as well, both for my current job, as for my hobby projects.
Can you model the results for impedance stability
and signal isolation? Can you then measure and validate
the results?
>
> Making a suitable PCB isn't very hard to do, not even (or: even
> better) in the case of SMT devices.
Uuuh.... you say suitable....then you say it isn't due to sound.
>
> I have done experiments with the exact same (tube) circuit build on a
> PCB and as a point-to-point wired circuit.
No way the impedance characteristics are the same.
Could or should the difference be audible is a different question.
> The latter sounded better to me, despite the use of turret lugs,
> mounted in a base plate of glas fibre.
>
> So I reckon it is not just the *material* that is responsible.
Your conductors were insulated stranded wire vs copper foil.
You don't consider that a material difference?
> Maybe the shape is? ;-)
Maybe its the humidity level in your home :).
ScottW
Fella wrote:
> paul packer wrote:
> >
> > Goodbye cruel hi-fi world.
> >
> > (Sharp report of gunshot. Thud of body striking floor).
>
> Come on Paul, no need for that. Please undo that suicide and think about
> it, is it worth it? It's the privacy of your own home ferchrissakes. No
> one is watching over you. Just take a photo of an animal, a piece of
> white blank paper, etc, you know, and do the tweak and do some
> listening. You really owe it to yourself.
Hmm... I wonder how many here will accept your challenge? It's true
that people can try any of my tweaks in the privacy of their own home,
and decide for themselves, whether they find there's anything to it
or not. Yet most people here made a point of declaring that they would
never do something like that, and you couldn't pay them enough to.
Except Shovels, though. Strangely enough.... Shovels has been kind of
mum on his position on the tweaks, note. Especially now, that two of
his colleagues have found they are indeed valid. I presume that as we
speak, Shovels is probably cutting out a picture of a dog or a cat or
printing out an L-shape or cutting a corner off his clothing labels or
perhaps this.....
Here's a simple experiment that most people can try in the privacy of
their own home, with no one watching (except the government who have
installed cameras in your listening room):
Find a current photo of yourself, and one from your childhood or
infancy. Place each in a separate zip lock plastic baggie. Place said
photos in your freezer compartment.
Of course, make sure no one sees you doing it, if you're that scared
about it. And most imporant, HIDE YOUR FACE FROM THE CAMERAS, PEOPLE!!!
I can't emphasize that enough. At worst, you'll have felt a bit
silly, if you are the insecure type. At best, you'll have improved
the sound you hear from your stereo (which is easy to tell once you
remove the photos). More importantly, you'll have started to
understand that there are mysterious phenomenon all around us in our
world that can surprise us to learn about, merely for the fact that we
did not understand of its existence before. But all mysteries cease to
be mysteries when you know more, and then they are no longer such
threatening, shocking, frightening ideas, but can become perfectly
rational, and help us to cope better in our modern societies.
> And this call I extend not only to Paul, but aul, that is, all. Whatever
> the results you need not ever speak about them to anyone. You can go on
> fighting with SHP ol' chum here even after the possible profound
> positive experience!
Sure, I don't mind. I'm taking all comers on, Beltists or not, I
don't care, line up, get your free kicks in the rump! There's
refreshments at the bar after we're done with your Royal ass-kicking,
if you need time to heal.
You can go on laughing at me and Sander for trying
> the "silly" tweak. No one needs to know. No one needs to even get a
> slightest hint. It costs next to nothing. Doesn't come with any legal
> obligation (but perhaps at least an ethical obligation to stop fighting
> with SHP). Takes about a minute to implement. And takes about a second
> to un-implement should the "results" scare you or should you feel really
> silly for having heard something or other..
Now you have to wonder... with such easy conditions, why exactly
hasn't everyone who's interested in improving their sound tried
these things already? Well I've already posited my arguments in my
thesis on the group.
> It is such a wonderful experience though (should you guys experience it)
> such a silly, magical experience. I did the ABX "rituals" in my time and
> in retrospect *they* were much sillier, yes, but at the same very very
> much bereft of anything resembling "pleasant". All that's left from
> those abx rituals was that uncomfortable labrat feeling that had
> *nothing* to do with enjoying music. From *this* "ritual" there is the
> living *intimate* memory of the last "tweaked" album I listened to
> (Buena Vista Social Club presents Ibrahim Ferrer) the feeling I had that
> there was absolutely nothing artificial about the music coming at me
> from that very much so artificial system... If music is about intimacy
> to you people then...
Try listening to the soundtrack of Buena Vista Social Club... The first
track especially, "Chan Chan", sounds utterly fantabulous on a system
like mine that has had many Beltist tweaks implemented.
> I don't think this is like some narcotics though. I don't think it will
> induce further "tweaking". I don't think this "stuff" can induce any
> kind of biological addiction of any sorts... :) Hope not, at least...
Ridiculous nonsense! File it under the usual "objectivist hysteria".
Objectivists are always extremely threatened by things they don't
understand in audio. Consider the fact that RAO is basically a security
blanket to Arny Krueger. Even whilst his dying son was being planted in
the ground, he was here attacking subjectivists for tweaking and such.
Because to not be here propogating their religious views on audio,
strips objectivists of their identity and sense of security. Imagine
for a moment if Scott, Kreuger, Sullivan and Nyob were here, but
everyone else on the group was an active tweaker of alternative audio
concepts like the 5-pinhole device. With the preponderence of people
blasting them, their little slings and arrows of mockery and ridicule
would fall like so many toothpicks on the ground. And you would see
those 4 scurrying out of here in short order, on a permanent basis,
cursing the mad tweakers who drove them off. That's because
rationality, to a large extent, only follows what the majority defines
as rational.
> And if it "wears off", as Morein so eloquently suggests to Sander, then
> it wears off.
Morein is always speaking as an expert on things when he doesn't know
what he's talking about. Let's not forget, he's too afraid to try
the tweaks himself. But let me say that in a sense, all new changes
done to a system "wear off" eventually, because you get used to the
standard of sound, and stop thinking about it consciously. This is
regardless of whether you've tweaked your system with pinholed paper
or a new speaker wire. And in fact, the overall level of quality of a
system changes all the time (like most things, it usually degrades over
time, when it isn't properly cared for). But even after you've
gotten used to the change and despite all the changes your system
naturally goes through, when you've removed the initial device that
made the change after so long a time, then you are still going to
notice the drop in sound quality.
>In fact, my only problem with this tweak is that it was
> hard to stop listening to the untweaked system and now after the tweak
> it is downright impossible to hit the "stop" button and get up from that
> chair.
This is the way it usually is with my $300 system. It makes it a bit
difficult to try new experiments, because I have to do a lot of A/B
type switching, and the level of sound quality is so good, and my
connection to the music so strong, it makes it very difficult to hit
the stop button on the cd player, and switch to the B condition.
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 08:22 PM
"ScottW" > said:
>> I have software to create schematics, PC boards and their gerber files
>> as well, both for my current job, as for my hobby projects.
> Can you model the results for impedance stability
>and signal isolation? Can you then measure and validate
>the results?
I'm pretty sure that Protel and Multisim can't do that, actually.
I'm also pretty sure that for everyday analogue audio, this isn't
important.
>> Making a suitable PCB isn't very hard to do, not even (or: even
>> better) in the case of SMT devices.
>Uuuh.... you say suitable....then you say it isn't due to sound.
Suitable for my purposes, which is mostly solid state amplifiers.
This isn't multi layer work for telecom, you know.
Double sides at most, with enough free spaces between traces and
component pins.
Tube amps are made with point to point wiring here, ever since the PCB
fiasco.
Not to mention the tube sockets and cathode resistors falling off
after some time.............
>> I have done experiments with the exact same (tube) circuit build on a
>> PCB and as a point-to-point wired circuit.
>No way the impedance characteristics are the same.
Probably not, but I fail to see the relevance of that in a simple
push-pull circuit with 2 x EL84, ECC83 and 300V B+?
>Could or should the difference be audible is a different question.
>> The latter sounded better to me, despite the use of turret lugs,
>> mounted in a base plate of glas fibre.
>> So I reckon it is not just the *material* that is responsible.
> Your conductors were insulated stranded wire vs copper foil.
> You don't consider that a material difference?
The passive components were all mounted between the solder lugs, with
wires going to and from the tube sockets.
The material of the board that held the solder lugs, was glass fibre,
just as most conventional PCBs.
The hard wiring vs. 70 um copper traces may account for differences, I
agree.
>> Maybe the shape is? ;-)
> Maybe its the humidity level in your home :).
Next time I'll check for full moon and high tide, must have an almanac
somewhere....... ;-)
Do you also realize that we're having an interesting discussion about
audio and its construction here, Scott?
Beats politics and Arny-bashing, don't you think?
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Steven Sullivan
April 10th 06, 08:43 PM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan > said:
> >I doubt what you're experiencing is new to you...or to
> >anyone, really. I'm pretty sure it's just a standard psychological
> >phenomenon.
> So what are you afraid of?
> Just try the tweak, and see for yourself.
If I claimed to hear a difference, why do you imagine that would
'prove' anything to me, or to anyone with a clue about testing?
I don't claim to be immune to typical sighted bias effects.
And if I claimed not to hear a difference, doubtless you'd explain
that away as negative bias. You might be right.
And if I didn't hear it in an ABX, you'd say either ABX destroyed
the effect, or my gear wasn't 'resolving' enough.
Unless you have a non-magical mechanism* at hand that explains why there really *would*
be an audible difference, or unless you have controlled for the standard
biases in your comparison, I'm afraid your results are worthless in
all but a purely solipsistic definition of 'worth', Sander. They're no better than
fantasies. Mine would be no different, by the same criteria.
*morphic resonance does not qualify
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Steven Sullivan
April 10th 06, 08:45 PM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> (paul packer) said:
> >In your rush to rant you've missed the point, Mr. Sound (or is it
> >"Jamie" now?). Which is that I don't want to spend my life endlessly
> >followed a trail of L-shapes and pinholes. And I think you'll agree
> >from your own experience that "endlessly" is no exaggeration. You may
> >be a kid in a candy shop but I'm not. I've been into hi-fi since 1966
> >and learned enough to know how the pursuit of tweaks can thoroughly
> >and consistently thwart the pursuit of enjoying music.
> That probably depends on how you do it.
> All those years, I frantically replaced capacitors, tubes, resistors
> etc., and felt the need to build a new amplifier as soon as the solder
> joints of the one I was working on were barely cold.
> That doesn't mean I won't build anything again, it's just that there's
> so much more to explore that doesn't cost as much in both time and
> money.
Oh yes, there's a universe of purely subjective effects. Once
you allow that anything is possible, well, it does lead to
a full schedule of 'discovery'. Have you considered talking
to your speakers?
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
ScottW
April 10th 06, 08:50 PM
Sander deWaal wrote:
> "ScottW" > said:
>
>
> >> I have software to create schematics, PC boards and their gerber files
> >> as well, both for my current job, as for my hobby projects.
>
>
> > Can you model the results for impedance stability
> >and signal isolation? Can you then measure and validate
> >the results?
>
>
> I'm pretty sure that Protel and Multisim can't do that, actually.
> I'm also pretty sure that for everyday analogue audio, this isn't
> important.
I agree but when tweeking....leave no stone unturned :).
I don't know what our latest CAD tool for modelling is...something
that Mentor supports I suppose... I also know the RF guys are
always complaining that the models aren't very close....and
the PWB shops don't hold impedances (they tried mixed digital and RF
with two dielectrics recently... and ultimately decided the integration
wasn't worth the hassle. They're going back to two boards,
one FR-4 and one teflon.
None of this should be relevant to audio.... but who can really say
where to
draw the line.
>
>
> >> Making a suitable PCB isn't very hard to do, not even (or: even
> >> better) in the case of SMT devices.
>
>
> >Uuuh.... you say suitable....then you say it isn't due to sound.
>
>
> Suitable for my purposes, which is mostly solid state amplifiers.
> This isn't multi layer work for telecom, you know.
> Double sides at most, with enough free spaces between traces and
> component pins.
>
> Tube amps are made with point to point wiring here, ever since the PCB
> fiasco.
> Not to mention the tube sockets and cathode resistors falling off
> after some time.............
>
>
> >> I have done experiments with the exact same (tube) circuit build on a
> >> PCB and as a point-to-point wired circuit.
>
>
> >No way the impedance characteristics are the same.
>
>
> Probably not, but I fail to see the relevance of that in a simple
> push-pull circuit with 2 x EL84, ECC83 and 300V B+?
Couldn't it be just as relevant as a piece of paper with pin holes?
>
>
> >Could or should the difference be audible is a different question.
>
>
> >> The latter sounded better to me, despite the use of turret lugs,
> >> mounted in a base plate of glas fibre.
>
> >> So I reckon it is not just the *material* that is responsible.
>
>
> > Your conductors were insulated stranded wire vs copper foil.
> > You don't consider that a material difference?
>
>
> The passive components were all mounted between the solder lugs, with
> wires going to and from the tube sockets.
> The material of the board that held the solder lugs, was glass fibre,
> just as most conventional PCBs.
> The hard wiring vs. 70 um copper traces may account for differences, I
> agree.
>
>
> >> Maybe the shape is? ;-)
>
>
> > Maybe its the humidity level in your home :).
>
>
> Next time I'll check for full moon and high tide, must have an almanac
> somewhere....... ;-)
>
> Do you also realize that we're having an interesting discussion about
> audio and its construction here, Scott?
> Beats politics and Arny-bashing, don't you think?
There's a couple million people in the streets today clamoring for
rights.
Arny hasn't been on my radar in quite some time.
ScottW
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Sander deWaal > wrote:
> > Steven Sullivan > said:
>
>
> > >I doubt what you're experiencing is new to you...or to
> > >anyone, really. I'm pretty sure it's just a standard psychological
> > >phenomenon.
>
>
> > So what are you afraid of?
> > Just try the tweak, and see for yourself.
>
>
> If I claimed to hear a difference, why do you imagine that would
> 'prove' anything to me, or to anyone with a clue about testing?
> I don't claim to be immune to typical sighted bias effects.
>
> And if I claimed not to hear a difference, doubtless you'd explain
> that away as negative bias. You might be right.
>
> And if I didn't hear it in an ABX, you'd say either ABX destroyed
> the effect, or my gear wasn't 'resolving' enough.
>
> Unless you have a non-magical mechanism* at hand that explains why there really *would*
> be an audible difference, or unless you have controlled for the standard
> biases in your comparison, I'm afraid your results are worthless in
> all but a purely solipsistic definition of 'worth', Sander. They're no better than
> fantasies.
They're as valuable as your fantasies are to you. I'm afraid YOU
don't get to decide what in audio is or isn't "worthless". As to
what has worth in audio, this is merely your opinion and your opinion
is wrong. And I'm in a position to say, since I tested many of my
tweaks both sighted and DBTs, and you never tested ANYTHING and don't
know ANYTHING about how they work.
One of the many things that ignorant bigots like you fail to recognize,
is that "worth" is relative to the person applying the value. You put
"worth" in ABX tests, because that's a part of your religious belief
system. Others consider them "worthLESS".
The question that remains is: what is the difference between an
"expectation effect" and a real phenomena? Since you are not able to
trust your ears and can only go by the results of a test to conclude
that something in audio is effective, how do you know that something
works if you can't test it? Let's say someone else tested the tweak
according to your standards, and you bought the tweak product as a
result. You didn't really think about what you heard after installing
it in your system, since you don't really think period. But you
enjoyed its presence nevertheless. Now what if you found out later the
ABXed tweak product was an April Fool's joke, no ABX was ever done?
How would you feel? You'd feel like a fool, no doubt. What happens to
the tweak product? Out it goes. Now the same question remains: what is
the difference between an "expectation effect" and a real phenomena?
> -SHP
> "Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - Steven Sullivan
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 11:40 PM
Steven Sullivan > said:
>> So what are you afraid of?
>> Just try the tweak, and see for yourself.
>If I claimed to hear a difference, why do you imagine that would
>'prove' anything to me, or to anyone with a clue about testing?
>I don't claim to be immune to typical sighted bias effects.
Neither do I, but that's not the point.
Forget about "typical sighted bias effects", just try and listen.
For yourself. Not to prove anything to the group.
Can you do that?
I could, despite the ridicule that I expected to come my way.
That doesn't matter to me, I enjoy not only a better system, but a
better mindset as well.
>And if I claimed not to hear a difference, doubtless you'd explain
>that away as negative bias. You might be right.
>And if I didn't hear it in an ABX, you'd say either ABX destroyed
>the effect, or my gear wasn't 'resolving' enough.
I wouldn't do that, I never attacked people for hearing or not hearing
things, just not my style.
Each and every person has his own truth, his own standards, and acts
accordingly.
If you don't hear any difference, fine.
If you do, so much the better, it'll make you feel good.
>Unless you have a non-magical mechanism* at hand that explains why there really *would*
>be an audible difference, or unless you have controlled for the standard
>biases in your comparison, I'm afraid your results are worthless in
>all but a purely solipsistic definition of 'worth', Sander. They're no better than
>fantasies. Mine would be no different, by the same criteria.
What's wrong with fantasies?
Listening to a spinning disc with invisible signals that go through
boxes with knobs and connectors, and finally coming out of 2 or more
wooden contraptions with woofers and tweeters and god knows how many
units you have, while imagining the Boston Pops is playing just for
you, isn't that just a fantasy?
Looking at the TV, knowing that we're fooled all the time because
every 20 mS, a new frame is written on the screen, only to be seen as
a complete image because of the inertia of our eyes, isn't that a
fantasy?
And yet, we enjoy recordings and movies.
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 11:42 PM
Steven Sullivan > said:
>Oh yes, there's a universe of purely subjective effects. Once
>you allow that anything is possible, well, it does lead to
>a full schedule of 'discovery'. Have you considered talking
>to your speakers?
They're talking to *me*, how happy they are that they're now able to
serve me even better ;-)
Can I still talk to my cats, or is that not done as well?
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Sander deWaal
April 10th 06, 11:45 PM
"ScottW" > said:
>> >No way the impedance characteristics are the same.
>> Probably not, but I fail to see the relevance of that in a simple
>> push-pull circuit with 2 x EL84, ECC83 and 300V B+?
> Couldn't it be just as relevant as a piece of paper with pin holes?
Got me there ;-)
>> Do you also realize that we're having an interesting discussion about
>> audio and its construction here, Scott?
>> Beats politics and Arny-bashing, don't you think?
> There's a couple million people in the streets today clamoring for
>rights.
Yup, and closer to my home, film conductors get stabbed in the back,
politicians get shot, and some relatives are in pain or dying.
I see no reason why that would prevent me from discussing audio in an
audio newsgroup, frankly ;-)
>Arny hasn't been on my radar in quite some time.
Good, let's try to keep it that way!
--
- Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
Steven Sullivan
April 11th 06, 01:18 AM
Sander deWaal > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan > said:
> >> So what are you afraid of?
> >> Just try the tweak, and see for yourself.
> >If I claimed to hear a difference, why do you imagine that would
> >'prove' anything to me, or to anyone with a clue about testing?
> >I don't claim to be immune to typical sighted bias effects.
> Neither do I, but that's not the point.
It is indeed the point, but you refuse to do more than
give it lip service.
> Forget about "typical sighted bias effects", just try and listen.
You can 'forget' about them, but they're still there and still
have to be accounted for. That *is* the point. Do you ever plan on
acknowledging that?
> For yourself. Not to prove anything to the group.
> Can you do that?
> I could, despite the ridicule that I expected to come my way.
> That doesn't matter to me, I enjoy not only a better system, but a
> better mindset as well.
Again, let's say that I changed something, and then thought I heard
a difference. I've already explained why that's not sufficient
reason, by itself , to believe there really is one. And this isn't
just theory. I have HEARD stuff that I thought was different, after
I thought I'd changed something, only to realize with some chagrin that it
*could not have been* -- because in fact I *hadn't* changed anything.
This is not an uncommon, or inexplicable experience. It's called
a 'phantom switch' test when it's done on purpose.
You can keep chanting 'try it yourself, try it yourself' but that
misses the point, misses the point. It's *how* you 'try it yourself' that
makes the test good or poor.
> >And if I claimed not to hear a difference, doubtless you'd explain
> >that away as negative bias. You might be right.
> >And if I didn't hear it in an ABX, you'd say either ABX destroyed
> >the effect, or my gear wasn't 'resolving' enough.
> I wouldn't do that, I never attacked people for hearing or not hearing
> things, just not my style.
Do you ever *question* things?
> Each and every person has his own truth, his own standards, and acts
> accordingly.
Oh, poppycock. Jump out a a window in the belief that you can fly,
and we'll see what the 'truth' of the matter is. Sound waves
don't come *from* your ears, Sander, they come from somewhere *outside*.
> If you don't hear any difference, fine.
> If you do, so much the better, it'll make you feel good.
It won't convince me it's real, though. And I'd never claim it was,
on that basis. I'd be very careful to say, "I could be imagining it, and probably
am."
> >Unless you have a non-magical mechanism* at hand that explains why there really *would*
> >be an audible difference, or unless you have controlled for the standard
> >biases in your comparison, I'm afraid your results are worthless in
> >all but a purely solipsistic definition of 'worth', Sander. They're no better than
> >fantasies. Mine would be no different, by the same criteria.
> What's wrong with fantasies?
Nothing, so long as they're acknowledged as such. Otherwise we can get into
difficulties like, oh, say, the current situation in Iraq.
> Listening to a spinning disc with invisible signals that go through
> boxes with knobs and connectors,
They're not 'invisible' if you know how to look at them, Sander.
> and finally coming out of 2 or more
> wooden contraptions with woofers and tweeters and god knows how many
> units you have, while imagining the Boston Pops is playing just for
> you, isn't that just a fantasy?
No, because I don't ever really believe the BP is playing just for me,
sorry, much less playing in my room.
Nor do I believe the people on TV are really in that small box
in front of me.
These are *illusions*.
> Looking at the TV, knowing that we're fooled all the time because
> every 20 mS, a new frame is written on the screen, only to be seen as
> a complete image because of the inertia of our eyes, isn't that a
> fantasy?
No, Sander, it's an *illusion*, with a solid ground of fact and reason
behind its creation. There are no particualrly mysterious causes and effects
going on...*quite* unlike the tweaks you claim, where the only rational
cause is *your imagination*.
> And yet, we enjoy recordings and movies.
These are truly rubbishy arguments, Sander. Not enjoyable to see an intelligent
person offering them up, really.
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Sander deWaal > wrote:
> > Steven Sullivan > said:
>
> You can 'forget' about them, but they're still there and still
> have to be accounted for. That *is* the point. Do you ever plan on
> acknowledging that?
No one has to. With audio, SOUND PERCEIVED IS SOUND HEARD.
> Again, let's say that I changed something, and then thought I heard
> a difference. I've already explained why that's not sufficient
> reason, by itself , to believe there really is one. And this isn't
> just theory. I have HEARD stuff that I thought was different, after
> I thought I'd changed something, only to realize with some chagrin that it
> *could not have been* -- because in fact I *hadn't* changed anything.
WRONG! That shows how little you know about audio. No doubt something
had changed. But if you are an ignorant dufus, and you don't know
what CAN change in audio, on a minute by minute second by second basis,
then you've just duped yourself into believing nothing could have
changed. In fact, there are a million things that can change the sound
of a system at any given moment, either through your actions or not.
You're such a fool Steve, that you fooled yourself into thinking you
fooled yourself!
> You can keep chanting 'try it yourself, try it yourself' but that
> misses the point, misses the point. It's *how* you 'try it yourself' that
> makes the test good or poor.
Did I or Sander TELL YOU to try it our way? NO. If you're going to
denounce my tweak, you'd better show reasons to do so. If you don't
like the standards Sander used, then USE YOUR OWN. Stop blabbering
about the test standards already. Blab is all you ever do.
> > I wouldn't do that, I never attacked people for hearing or not hearing
> > things, just not my style.
>
> Do you ever *question* things?
Do you ever actually test audio subjectively? Apparently not, if what
Shovels said about you is true.
>
> > Each and every person has his own truth, his own standards, and acts
> > accordingly.
>
> Oh, poppycock. Jump out a a window in the belief that you can fly,
> and we'll see what the 'truth' of the matter is. Sound waves
> don't come *from* your ears, Sander, they come from somewhere *outside*.
Aha! "Getting a bit defensive", are we? LOL! Isn't that exactly what
you just said to Sander in another of your drivel posts today,
Sullivan? What a hypocrite!
And who the hell said "sound waves come from your ears" exactly? What a
hypocritical liar!
> It won't convince me it's real, though. And I'd never claim it was,
> on that basis. I'd be very careful to say, "I could be imagining it, and probably
> am."
What you're imagining is that your ABX religion is a science.
> > What's wrong with fantasies?
>
> Nothing, so long as they're acknowledged as such.
Okay. I acknoledge your aBX religion as a fantasy.
> No, because I don't ever really believe the BP is playing just for me,
> sorry, much less playing in my room.
> Nor do I believe the people on TV are really in that small box
> in front of me.
>
> These are *illusions*.
HiFi is an *illusion*, moron. And if you can't imagine that the
Boston Pops is playing in your room, that tells me you have a crappy
stereo.
>
>
> > Looking at the TV, knowing that we're fooled all the time because
> > every 20 mS, a new frame is written on the screen, only to be seen as
> > a complete image because of the inertia of our eyes, isn't that a
> > fantasy?
>
> No, Sander, it's an *illusion*, with a solid ground of fact and reason
> behind its creation. There are no particualrly mysterious causes and effects
> going on...*quite* unlike the tweaks you claim, where the only rational
> cause is *your imagination*.
Just because YOU don't understand the science behind the tweaks,
doesn't make them "mysterious causes and effects", dufus. They're
only mysterious to YOU.
> These are truly rubbishy arguments, Sander. Not enjoyable to see an intelligent
> person offering them up, really.
Then why are you offering up your rubbishy arguments, Steven?
___
-SHP
"I was only accused of rape, never indicted" - Steven Sullivan
Fella
April 11th 06, 11:45 AM
Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
> Do you ever *question* things?
>
One should always question things. Even the question: "shall I always
question things?" should be asked.
Sander deWaal wrote:
> said:
>
>
> >I'm waiting for the DIY project of his using SMD's with no PCB's
>
>
> I have something like that in the pipeline, actually.
> It's a RIAA preamplifier that fits in the headshell behind the
> cartridge, using 0603 components (being the smallest size I can handle
> with standard soldering equipment).
> There's no PCB, it's all hard wired onto eachother.
>
> --
>
> - Never argue with idiots, they drag you down their level and beat you with experience. -
I wish you well on that one, it's hard finding a pre-amp anymore
let alone one that's affordable. I'm not familiar with the packaging
of SMD's, so I'll have to look that one up. The one's on the boards
I've run into are tiny, and board replacement is generally the
only alternative I have, or send to mfg. for service.
The packaging on some processors requires a proprietary socket
which had the legs for the PCB mounting. The processor had a grid of
contacts spaced maybe on .030 centers, could never have soldered
direct to it. I'll talk with the guy that was using it, it was a
research
application on a one of kind design, cosmic ray detector or some such
device IIRC. Much shorter wavelength than audio :-)
Steven Sullivan
April 11th 06, 04:08 PM
Fella > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
> > Sander deWaal > wrote:
> >
> >>Steven Sullivan > said:
> >
> >
> >
> >>>I doubt what you're experiencing is new to you...or to
> >>>anyone, really. I'm pretty sure it's just a standard psychological
> >>>phenomenon.
> >
> >
> >
> >>So what are you afraid of?
> >>Just try the tweak, and see for yourself.
> >
> >
> >
> > If I claimed to hear a difference, why do you imagine that would
> > 'prove' anything to me, or to anyone with a clue about testing?
> The point is not about "testing" bro... Not at all.
Apparently the point is that whatever you believe is true, is true.
> > I'm afraid your results are worthless
> The point is not about "results" either...
> The POINT! is: Just do the tweak and ENJOY! :) You get "intimate" with
> music, would be another way to describe it. If it happens to you that is.
I enjoy your posts because they make me laugh. If I pin a picture of
a donkey them, they might make me laugh even more.
> I have a system that costs around 7-8k eur (new). But now it sounds as
> though it would cost around a million bucks.
LOL. The cost isn't the point, bro.
> Thanks SHP. :)
> I don't understand it with you folks, perhaps it is a matter of
> profession, etc, but what's this testing, results, abx, etc? It's just
> music, listen to it!
Obvioulsy, if it were 'just music' to you, you wouldn't be bothering with these
inane tweaks.
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Steven Sullivan
April 11th 06, 04:09 PM
Fella > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
> >
> > Do you ever *question* things?
> >
> One should always question things. Even the question: "shall I always
> question things?" should be asked.
OMG, you are, like, a mystery wrapped in an enigma, bro!!
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Fella > wrote:
> > The point is not about "testing" bro... Not at all.
>
> Apparently the point is that whatever you believe is true, is true.
Now you're starting to get it! See? You're not ENTIRELY a stupid
maniac. In audio, that point always was true.
> I enjoy your posts because they make me laugh. If I pin a picture of
> a donkey them, they might make me laugh even more.
Don't even have to pin donkeys on your posts, because you make such
an ass of yourself.
> > I have a system that costs around 7-8k eur (new). But now it sounds as
> > though it would cost around a million bucks.
>
> LOL. The cost isn't the point, bro.
He was using an analogy, sis. Can you say "a-n-a-l-o-g-y"? Knew you
couldn't. That degree you said you had? Why is it drawn in crayon,
could you explain that for me?
> Obvioulsy, if it were 'just music' to you, you wouldn't be bothering with these
> inane tweaks.
No, of course not. We all do what you did: buy a POS bucket of cheap
black boxes from Circuit City, entirely on specs that the manufacturer
gave you, and be happy with that because the specs say we should be
happy, and everything sounds the same anyway. Well, if ignorance is
bliss Steven, you must be in heaven.
BTW, I couldn't help but notice that you're too chicken**** to
respond to my posts now. Apparently, "tweaks" are not the only things
around here that scare you to death! LOL!
___
-SHP
"I did not rape that woman. She consented" - Steven Sullivan
Fella
April 12th 06, 08:47 AM
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> I enjoy your posts because they make me laugh. If I pin a picture of
> a donkey them, they might make me laugh even more.
My mistake with the "bro". I'll do better next time. Call you what you
are, like, "dumborg", yes, that's better.
Steven Sullivan
April 12th 06, 03:39 PM
Fella > wrote:
> Steven Sullivan wrote:
> > I enjoy your posts because they make me laugh. If I pin a picture of
> > a donkey them, they might make me laugh even more.
> My mistake with the "bro". I'll do better next time. Call you what you
> are, like, "dumborg", yes, that's better.
Forget the donkey, I think it would work better with a picture of *you*.
___
-S
"Excuse me? What solid proof do you have that I'm insane?" - soundhaspriority
George M. Middius
April 12th 06, 03:42 PM
Stupey Sillybot's hormone bath isn't working.
> Forget the donkey, I think it would work better with a picture of *you*.
I think you're jealous because robots don't have hair follicles.
--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.
Fella
April 13th 06, 08:21 AM
Steven Sullivan wrote:
> Fella > wrote:
>
>>Steven Sullivan wrote:
>
>
>
>>>I enjoy your posts because they make me laugh. If I pin a picture of
>>>a donkey them, they might make me laugh even more.
>
>
>>My mistake with the "bro". I'll do better next time. Call you what you
>>are, like, "dumborg", yes, that's better.
>
>
> Forget the donkey, I think it would work better with a picture of *you*.
>
My mistake with the "dumborg". I'll do better next time. Call you what
you are, like, "insignificant dumborg", yes, that's better.
dave weil
April 29th 06, 06:58 PM
On 4 Apr 2006 13:12:53 -0700, wrote:
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On 4 Apr 2006 11:34:04 -0700, wrote:
>>
>> >> and consider you to
>> >> be totally incompetent.
>> >
>> >Lots of people consider lots of things about me. So far, no one's
>> >even tried to prove any of it is true, let alone, succeeded. I however,
>> >have. For example, I proved Dave Weil was totally incompetent in my
>> >thread "Dave Weil On Turntables, Culture & Education".
>>
>> Bad doggie! Bad, bad! <smacking on snout>
>>
>> To your crate! Now!
>
>I see you missed your carrots, Donkey Boy. There's a crate of them
>over in the corner, just for you for being such a good, predictable
>troll victim.
No kibble for you!
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