the life of an audio cd

[fogdog]

Over the past year I have been expanding my cd collection and I am
wondering what kind of life can I expect from a cd? LPs seem to
playback fine 30 years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops
here and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read somewhere that
cds oxidize or something after 15 years and won't play anymore.

Thanks

[Arny Krueger]

"fogdog" > wrote in message

> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd collection
> and I am wondering what kind of life can I expect from a
> cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years after the
> pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here and there);
> will my cds be able to do this? I read somewhere that
> cds oxidize or something after 15 years and won't play
> anymore.

Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983 when they first came
out still plays perfectly.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> > Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983 when they first came
> > out still plays perfectly.

> Mine too.

Do you attribute it to prayer like Arnii does?





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>> and won't play anymore.
>>
>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>
> Mine too.

Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "fogdog" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
> >>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
> >>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
> >>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
> >>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
> >>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
> >>> and won't play anymore.
> >>
> >> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >
> > Mine too.
>
> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?

I didn't say that they sound perfect.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>>>> and won't play anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>
>>> Mine too.
>>
>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
> I didn't say that they sound perfect.

Straw man argument noted.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
> >>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
> >>>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
> >>>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
> >>>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
> >>>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
> >>>>> and won't play anymore.
> >>>>
> >>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >>>
> >>> Mine too.
> >>
> >> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >
> > I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> Straw man argument noted.

LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a "straw man argument"?

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can
>>>>>>> I expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30
>>>>>>> years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and
>>>>>>> pops here and there); will my cds be able to do
>>>>>>> this? I read somewhere that cds oxidize or
>>>>>>> something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mine too.
>>>>
>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>>
>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>
>> Straw man argument noted.
>
> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> "straw man argument"?

I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played perfectly. I
guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound wrong.
IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound quality.
The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded right in the
first place.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:

>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mine too.
>>>>
>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>>
>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>
>> Straw man argument noted.
>
> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> "straw man argument"?

>>I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played
>>perfectly. I
>>guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound
>>wrong.
>>IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
>>quality.
>>The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded right in
>>the
>>first place.

Exactly right. I posted:

> >>>>> Mine too.

in response to your statement:

> >>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.

IOW, I was agreeing with you. You then posted:

> >>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?

So it is YOU who used a straw man argument. I stated that they PLAY
perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I wasn't using a straw man
argument when I replied with:

>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.

I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument. Do you see that? Can you
think with enough logic to understand that?

[[email protected]]

fogdog wrote:
> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd collection and I am
> wondering what kind of life can I expect from a cd? LPs seem to
> playback fine 30 years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops
> here and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read somewhere that
> cds oxidize or something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
>
> Thanks

I'll bet you didn't expect to see a spiralling thread, playing out an
endless back and forth flame war argument in response to your innocent
question, did you? Welcome to Monty Python's "Room For An Argument".
Otherwise known as...RAO.

To answer your question: CD'S SUCK. I'd say, NO, your CD's will not be
able to last 30 years like LPs easily will. Not unless you don't plan
on playing them. Not necessarily because of the famous CD rot, or
manufacturing defects, such as you often find on CD-Rs. I just noticed
my CD of Ry Cooder skipping like mad over some tracks. Thing is, I
didn't get it long ago, barely played it but a couple of times, and
yet... It has to be replaced. I take reasonably good care of my
collection, but nevertheless, its fairly common for me to find skipping
CDs. And a skipping CD is far less playable than a skipping LP.
Apparently, DVDs might be less prone to these kinds of flaws.

[fogdog]

wrote:
> fogdog wrote:
>
>>Over the past year I have been expanding my cd collection and I am
>>wondering what kind of life can I expect from a cd? LPs seem to
>>playback fine 30 years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops
>>here and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read somewhere that
>>cds oxidize or something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
>>
>>Thanks
>
>
> I'll bet you didn't expect to see a spiralling thread, playing out an
> endless back and forth flame war argument in response to your innocent
> question, did you? Welcome to Monty Python's "Room For An Argument".
> Otherwise known as...RAO.
>
> To answer your question: CD'S SUCK. I'd say, NO, your CD's will not be
> able to last 30 years like LPs easily will. Not unless you don't plan
> on playing them. Not necessarily because of the famous CD rot, or
> manufacturing defects, such as you often find on CD-Rs. I just noticed
> my CD of Ry Cooder skipping like mad over some tracks. Thing is, I
> didn't get it long ago, barely played it but a couple of times, and
> yet... It has to be replaced. I take reasonably good care of my
> collection, but nevertheless, its fairly common for me to find skipping
> CDs. And a skipping CD is far less playable than a skipping LP.
> Apparently, DVDs might be less prone to these kinds of flaws.
>
Well CD's might suck but I sure enjoy listening to them in my car. As
for lasting 30 years some posters have cds from 1983 that still work so
we got another decade before the call can be made.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.

>>>>>> Mine too.

>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?

>>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.

>>> Straw man argument noted.

>> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
>> "straw man argument"?

>>> I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they
>>> played perfectly. I
>>> guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly,
>>> and sound wrong.
>>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
>>> channel for sound quality.
>>> The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was
>>> recorded right in the
>>> first place.

> Exactly right. I posted:

>>>>>>> Mine too.

> in response to your statement:

>>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in
>>>>>>>> 1983 when they first came out still plays
>>>>>>>> perfectly.

> IOW, I was agreeing with you.

Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in your false biases.

> You then posted:

>>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?

> So it is YOU who used a straw man argument.

And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.

> I stated that they PLAY perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I
> wasn't using a straw man argument when I replied with:

>>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.

> I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument.

You have a funny way of doing that, Jenn. You didn't say a thing about straw
man arguments and now that I trapped you in your false biases, all of a
sudden you say you did.

>Do you see that?

I see that you said nothing about straw man arguments Jenn, and then when
you saw that you were trapped in your false bases, you changed your story.

>Can you think with enough logic to understand that?

I see a false claim of a person who is ahoist their own petard, trying to
blame me for their careless thinking.

As you often do Jenn, you're trying to change what you said after you said
it when you see that it trapped you. Now its time for the usual RAO trolls
to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com



> To answer your question: CD'S SUCK. I'd say, NO, your
> CD's will not be able to last 30 years like LPs easily
> will.

If you call what LPs do: "Lasting".

LOL!

> Not unless you don't plan on playing them. Not
> necessarily because of the famous CD rot, or
> manufacturing defects, such as you often find on CD-Rs.

Make up your mind, Mr. Sound. Are you talking about CDs or CD-Rs?

> I just noticed my CD of Ry Cooder skipping like mad over
> some tracks.

Since you seem to be confused about which is which, is this a CDs or a CD-R?

>Thing is, I didn't get it long ago, barely
> played it but a couple of times, and yet... It has to be
> replaced.

Huh?

> I take reasonably good care of my collection,

Huh?

> but nevertheless, its fairly common for me to find
> skipping CDs.

Sounds like you have a messed up CD (one with visible dirt or defects) or
crappy CD player.

What make and model CD player do you have?

>And a skipping CD is far less playable than a skipping LP.

I've only had a very few CDs that were defective out of the wrapper. Less
than 10 in 23 years.

> Apparently, DVDs might be less prone to these kinds of flaws.

You probably have a better DVD player.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com


> I think you're referring to Arny Krueger... an old crank
> who hasn't been down to the basement to listen to his
> stereo in 30 years.

That's becuase I don't have much of a basement, and there's no stereo in
there at all. At least there's no stereo there unless I go down there while
I'm listening to one of my portable digital players.

> He still thinks "Victrola" is a brand name at Best Buy.

You're making this up, right?

>I was referring to actually playing and using the CDs.

Did I tell you about recording 60 distinct live performances in two days and
recording a CD-R for each of them?

> Particularly CDrs, they're far from indestructible.

Note that Mr. Sound is confusing the two again. In fact they are vastly
different products.

> If you just stack them neatly on the
> shelves and don't look at them, then yeah, they might
> last 30 years or more.

Agreed.

> Some of mine didn't last 30 days.

Some are bad coming right out of the burner.

Speaks to quality of raw materials:

Good CD media: http://www.cdroutlet.com/taiyo-yuden-cdr.htm

quality of the burner:

Good burners:
http://www.plextor.com/ENGLISH/products/product_cdrw_drives.html

and good procedures.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>
>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd collection
>> and I am wondering what kind of life can I expect from a
>> cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years after the
>> pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here and there);
>> will my cds be able to do this? I read somewhere that
>> cds oxidize or something after 15 years and won't play
>> anymore.
>
> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983 when they first came
> out still plays perfectly.
>

Of all the ones I purchased in the mid eighties, only one rotted.



--
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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>>> and won't play anymore.
>>>
>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>
>> Mine too.
>
> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>

Can't you understand the difference between
'plays perfectly' and 'sounds perfect'?



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> In article >,
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>>>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>>>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>>>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>>>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>>>>> and won't play anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>>
>>>> Mine too.
>>>
>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>
>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> Straw man argument noted.

Debating trade bull**** noted.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >>> In article >,
>> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>> >>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>> >>>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>> >>>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>> >>>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>> >>>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>> >>>>> and won't play anymore.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>> >>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>> >>>
>> >>> Mine too.
>> >>
>> >> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>> >
>> > I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>
>> Straw man argument noted.
>
> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a "straw man argument"?

Arny is just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.
You should excuse him. He's a litle grumpy this week from
giving up religion.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> >, "Arny
>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can
>>>>>>>> I expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30
>>>>>>>> years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and
>>>>>>>> pops here and there); will my cds be able to do
>>>>>>>> this? I read somewhere that cds oxidize or
>>>>>>>> something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mine too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>>
>>> Straw man argument noted.
>>
>> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
>> "straw man argument"?
>
> I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played perfectly. I
> guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound wrong.
> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
> quality. The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded
> right in the first place.


yes, and Jenn agreed with you, they played perfectly, then you
started the debating trade bull****.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mine too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>>>
>>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>>
>>> Straw man argument noted.
>>
>> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
>> "straw man argument"?
>
>>>I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played
>>>perfectly. I
>>>guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound
>>>wrong.
>>>IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
>>>quality.
>>>The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded right in
>>>the
>>>first place.
>
> Exactly right. I posted:
>
>> >>>>> Mine too.
>
> in response to your statement:
>
>> >>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>> >>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>
> IOW, I was agreeing with you. You then posted:
>
>> >>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
> So it is YOU who used a straw man argument. I stated that they PLAY
> perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I wasn't using a straw man
> argument when I replied with:
>
>>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument. Do you see that? Can you
> think with enough logic to understand that?

He's right, he's right, he's right. he's ALWAYS right.
You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. Everyont else is ALWAYS wrong



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I see a false claim of a person who is ahoist their own petard, trying to
> blame me for their careless thinking.
>

Careless thinking indeed!
All she did was simply agree with you.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> That's becuase I don't have much of a basement, and there's no stereo in
> there at all. At least there's no stereo there unless I go down there
> while I'm listening to one of my portable digital players.
>

We've seen the pictures!



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[[email protected]]

wrote:
> fogdog wrote:
> > Over the past year I have been expanding my cd collection and I am
> > wondering what kind of life can I expect from a cd? LPs seem to
> > playback fine 30 years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops
> > here and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read somewhere that
> > cds oxidize or something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
> >
> > Thanks
>
> I'll bet you didn't expect to see a spiralling thread, playing out an
> endless back and forth flame war argument in response to your innocent
> question, did you? Welcome to Monty Python's "Room For An Argument".
> Otherwise known as...RAO.
>
> To answer your question: CD'S SUCK. I'd say, NO, your CD's will not be
> able to last 30 years like LPs easily will. Not unless you don't plan
> on playing them. Not necessarily because of the famous CD rot, or
> manufacturing defects, such as you often find on CD-Rs. I just noticed
> my CD of Ry Cooder skipping like mad over some tracks. Thing is, I
> didn't get it long ago, barely played it but a couple of times, and
> yet... It has to be replaced. I take reasonably good care of my
> collection, but nevertheless, its fairly common for me to find skipping
> CDs. And a skipping CD is far less playable than a skipping LP.
> Apparently, DVDs might be less prone to these kinds of flaws.

Maybe you should just buy a new CD player.
That has generally been the means of playing CD's that are not
scratched, yet skip in the player.
They don't last forever, and technology improves.
Pressed CD's, handled appropriately last a long time.
CD-R's have had some problems, but vary between brands and
recording methods and hardware.
That has been discussed in the r.a.p. NG
I have yet to read a trade article about the oxidation issue.
Sounds like a rumor to help sell the Easy Bake CD Oven
to remove those alleged microscopic oil droplets that are left
in the CD after manufacture.
Oh, and if you did it to the last one,
don't Tweak the player this time.
Of course you could have inadvertently bought a
bootleg CD, manufactured to look pretty
but sound doesn't matter.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>> That's becuase I don't have much of a basement, and
>> there's no stereo in there at all. At least there's no
>> stereo there unless I go down there while I'm listening
>> to one of my portable digital players.
>
> We've seen the pictures!

No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of my basement,
partially because I've never had any audio gear there. Furthermore, the
picture(s) that you may have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist when
I remodeled my house.

BTW Art, why don't you tell that lie again you love so much, the one about
my crumbling basement?

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com


> Maybe you should just buy a new CD player.

Wanna bet money that he has one of those poorly-designed high end CD players
that they sell to suckers who are full of themselves?

> That has generally been the means of playing CD's that
> are not scratched, yet skip in the player.

Agreed.

> They don't last forever, and technology improves.

Particularly related to tracknig.

> Pressed CD's, handled appropriately last a long time.

They need not ever fail if used and stored properly.

> CD-R's have had some problems, but vary between brands and
> recording methods and hardware.

Lots.

> That has been discussed in the r.a.p. NG
> I have yet to read a trade article about the oxidation
> issue. Sounds like a rumor to help sell the Easy Bake CD
> Oven to remove those alleged microscopic oil droplets that are
> left in the CD after manufacture.

I thought you were kidding and then Google comes up with this:

http://www.linux-magazine.com/issue/21/CDBakeOven.pdf

;-)

> Oh, and if you did it to the last one,
> don't Tweak the player this time.

I can't imagine what a disaster would ensue, if Mr. Sound ever got a
screwdriver in his hand and didn't immediately drop it because he grabbed
the sharp end first...

> Of course you could have inadvertently bought a
> bootleg CD, manufactured to look pretty
> but sound doesn't matter.

Read between the lines & lies, that's probably it.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On 1 Apr 2006 23:50:02 -0800, wrote:
>If you just stack them neatly on the shelves and don't
>look at them, then yeah, they might last 30 years or more. Some of mine
>didn't last 30 days.

Stop smearing them with magic cream.

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>
>>In article >,
>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"fogdog" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>>Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>>>expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>>>after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>>>and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>>>somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>>>and won't play anymore.
>>>
>>>Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>
>>Mine too.
>
>
> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
>

Jenn jenn. Don't try to make peace with Arny here. He hates you from
here to eternity, live with it.

[[email protected]]

Goofball_star_dot_etal, net detective genius and failed tweak merchant,
trolled:

> On 1 Apr 2006 23:50:02 -0800, wrote:
> >If you just stack them neatly on the shelves and don't
> >look at them, then yeah, they might last 30 years or more. Some of mine
> >didn't last 30 days.
>
> Stop smearing them with magic cream.

This from the goofball nutjob who thinks I'm 16 different people!
Jealous, oh failed, bitter tweakmeister? Did the magic beans you bought
not work as advertised? Or are you still trying to wipe the Armor-All
off of all your CDs, before they end up where your money went?

[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger's woke up to the sound of his stereo, so watch out
everybody, he's in a nasty, bitter, TROLLING MOOD:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com
>
>

I gotta say, old man. You really put the line out for Jenn today,
didn't you? Pray tell, what exactly did she do to you, that you would
lie to everyone and troll her endlessly? Or are you genuinely more
confused than usual?

> > I think you're referring to Arny Krueger... an old crank
> > who hasn't been down to the basement to listen to his
> > stereo in 30 years.
>
> That's becuase I don't have much of a basement, and there's no stereo in
> there at all. At least there's no stereo there unless I go down there while
> I'm listening to one of my portable digital players.

I thought your portable digital player WAS your stereo?

>
> > He still thinks "Victrola" is a brand name at Best Buy.
>
> You're making this up, right?

No, "Victrola" is a real name. Check the gear in your basement if you
don't beleive me.


> >I was referring to actually playing and using the CDs.
>
> Did I tell you about recording 60 distinct live performances in two days and
> recording a CD-R for each of them?
>

No, I don't think I caught that. Did I tell you about how I
reconstructed the twin towers in two days flat? If you can somehow find
a pair of seats on an airplane for you and your can and you ever get to
NY, you'll see a plaque on the front corner that says "This building
dedicated to soundhaspriority". No guff.

> > Particularly CDrs, they're far from indestructible.
>
> Note that Mr. Sound is confusing the two again. In fact they are vastly
> different products.

Oh, I forgot. You have this dizzy inability to focus on more than one
thing in a discussion. I'd like to tell you they have medication for
that now, except they don't.


> > If you just stack them neatly on the
> > shelves and don't look at them, then yeah, they might
> > last 30 years or more.
>
> Agreed.

You agree? Then I retract my statement. No, they won't last 30 years,
some will die long before that due to CD rot.


> > Some of mine didn't last 30 days.
>
> Some are bad coming right out of the burner.

I already explained how that's not the problem, Krapper. If you're
going to pitch your rotten 2 cents into a discussion, do try to put
your thinking cap on and follow what is said. If you even can at all.
Otherwise, you're better off just taking your nappies like your wife
suggests, old man.

>
> Speaks to quality of raw materials:
>
> Good CD media: http://www.cdroutlet.com/taiyo-yuden-cdr.htm

Taiyo Yuden's may be good, but try to find the damn things in stores.
I've never seen one.

<more crap snipped about cdr's and burners>

We all know your fetish for CD burning, even though you're about as
ignorant on that subject as you are on high quality audio. However, you
trying to swing this discussion into that field is irrelevant, my
dogmatic polemicist trolling friend. I already said the problem with my
cd's did NOT come from the quality of the burn, the CDr, the burner,
or any nonsense like that. It came from being worn out by simple
everyday usage. And yeah, greaseboy, I DO have a Plextor.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>> That's becuase I don't have much of a basement, and
>>> there's no stereo in there at all. At least there's no
>>> stereo there unless I go down there while I'm listening
>>> to one of my portable digital players.
>>
>> We've seen the pictures!
>
> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of my basement,
> partially because I've never had any audio gear there. Furthermore, the
> picture(s) that you may have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist
> when I remodeled my house.
>


KROOLOGIC!

They WERE NOT pictures of your basement, however,
they WERE pictures of your basement
before you remodeled it.


> BTW Art, why don't you tell that lie again you love so much, the one about
> my crumbling basement?
>

Let's see. You are the one that talked about your
crumbling foundation.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On 2 Apr 2006 08:28:25 -0700, wrote:

>
>Goofball_star_dot_etal, net detective genius and failed tweak merchant,
>trolled:
>
>> On 1 Apr 2006 23:50:02 -0800, wrote:
>> >If you just stack them neatly on the shelves and don't
>> >look at them, then yeah, they might last 30 years or more. Some of mine
>> >didn't last 30 days.
>>
>> Stop smearing them with magic cream.
>
>This from the goofball nutjob who thinks I'm 16 different people!

****! I have only found about eight so far and that includes Howard
Ferstler.

>Jealous, oh failed, bitter tweakmeister? Did the magic beans you bought
>not work as advertised? Or are you still trying to wipe the Armor-All
>off of all your CDs, before they end up where your money went?

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> > BTW Art, why don't you tell that lie again you love so much, the one about
> > my crumbling basement?

> Let's see. You are the one that talked about your
> crumbling foundation.

You mean Krooger was talking about his house? I misunderstood.





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Clyde Slick said:
>
>> > BTW Art, why don't you tell that lie again you love so much, the one
>> > about
>> > my crumbling basement?
>
>> Let's see. You are the one that talked about your
>> crumbling foundation.
>
> You mean Krooger was talking about his house? I misunderstood.
>

yes, that was a while ago, before his religious beliefs began to crumble..



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Jenn]

In article >,
Fella > wrote:

> Arny Krueger wrote:
> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >
> >
> >>In article >,
> >>"Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"fogdog" > wrote in message
>
> >>>
> >>>>Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
> >>>>collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
> >>>>expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
> >>>>after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
> >>>>and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
> >>>>somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
> >>>>and won't play anymore.
> >>>
> >>>Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >>
> >>Mine too.
> >
> >
> > Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >
> >
>
> Jenn jenn. Don't try to make peace with Arny here. He hates you from
> here to eternity, live with it.

He obviously tries to make an argument where there is none. I think
that the word for that is "troll".

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Clyde Slick" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mine too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >>>>
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
> >>>
> >>> Straw man argument noted.
> >>
> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> >> "straw man argument"?
> >
> >>>I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played
> >>>perfectly. I
> >>>guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound
> >>>wrong.
> >>>IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
> >>>quality.
> >>>The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded right in
> >>>the
> >>>first place.
> >
> > Exactly right. I posted:
> >
> >> >>>>> Mine too.
> >
> > in response to your statement:
> >
> >> >>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >> >>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >
> > IOW, I was agreeing with you. You then posted:
> >
> >> >>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >
> > So it is YOU who used a straw man argument. I stated that they PLAY
> > perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I wasn't using a straw man
> > argument when I replied with:
> >
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
> >
> > I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument. Do you see that? Can you
> > think with enough logic to understand that?
>
> He's right, he's right, he's right. he's ALWAYS right.
> You're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. Everyont else is ALWAYS wrong

Yes, obviously.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Clyde Slick" > wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >
> >> In article >,
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>> In article
> >>>> >, "Arny
> >>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> In article >,
> >>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
> >>>>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can
> >>>>>>>> I expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30
> >>>>>>>> years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and
> >>>>>>>> pops here and there); will my cds be able to do
> >>>>>>>> this? I read somewhere that cds oxidize or
> >>>>>>>> something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mine too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >>>>
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
> >>>
> >>> Straw man argument noted.
> >>
> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> >> "straw man argument"?
> >
> > I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played perfectly. I
> > guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound wrong.
> > IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
> > quality. The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded
> > right in the first place.
>
>
> yes, and Jenn agreed with you, they played perfectly, then you
> started the debating trade bull****.

His need to "win" even when there is no argument to win is curious.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>
> >>>>>> Mine too.
>
> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> >>> Straw man argument noted.
>
> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> >> "straw man argument"?
>
> >>> I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they
> >>> played perfectly. I
> >>> guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly,
> >>> and sound wrong.
> >>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
> >>> channel for sound quality.
> >>> The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was
> >>> recorded right in the
> >>> first place.
>
> > Exactly right. I posted:
>
> >>>>>>> Mine too.
>
> > in response to your statement:
>
> >>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in
> >>>>>>>> 1983 when they first came out still plays
> >>>>>>>> perfectly.
>
> > IOW, I was agreeing with you.
>
> Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in your false biases.
>
> > You then posted:
>
> >>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
> > So it is YOU who used a straw man argument.
>
> And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.
>
> > I stated that they PLAY perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I
> > wasn't using a straw man argument when I replied with:
>
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> > I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument.
>
> You have a funny way of doing that, Jenn. You didn't say a thing about straw
> man arguments and now that I trapped you in your false biases, all of a
> sudden you say you did.
>
> >Do you see that?
>
> I see that you said nothing about straw man arguments Jenn, and then when
> you saw that you were trapped in your false bases, you changed your story.
>
> >Can you think with enough logic to understand that?
>
> I see a false claim of a person who is ahoist their own petard, trying to
> blame me for their careless thinking.
>
> As you often do Jenn, you're trying to change what you said after you said
> it when you see that it trapped you. Now its time for the usual RAO trolls
> to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."

1. I changed NOTHING, Arny. Why do you make things up?

2. This is yet another example of you creating a disagreement where
none exists. I simply AGREED with you. You have clearly shown, yet
again, why people "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
In the present example, you take a perfectly innocent reply (an
AGREEMENT) to one of your posts, and using fractured "logic", try to
turn it into an argument. When it is shown that you clearly made a
mistake regarding who is using a straw man argument, you just keep up
the attack. Then down the road, you will whine about people "attacking"
you, when, as shown above, you bring it on yourself. I've tried over
and over to be nice to you, agreeing with you at every opportunity.
This simply doesn't matter to you; you'll repeatedly create strife by
trolling for an argument. You ask for peace, then state why peace is
not possible, and then prove that stance to be correct by making peace
impossible. Guess what? You now have achieved your apparent goal: you
have another "enemy". Loser.

[Arny Krueger]

"Fella" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>>>> expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>>>> after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>>>> and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>>>> somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>>>> and won't play anymore.
>>>>
>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>
>>> Mine too.
>>
>>
>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?

> Jenn jenn. Don't try to make peace with Arny here. He
> hates you from here to eternity, live with it.

Red herring noted.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message


> He obviously tries to make an argument where there is none.

Wrong, I reintroduced an old argument that AFAIK has never been settled.

> I think that the word for that is "troll".

I think the prhase for this is "pity party".

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>
>>>> That's becuase I don't have much of a basement, and
>>>> there's no stereo in there at all. At least there's no
>>>> stereo there unless I go down there while I'm listening
>>>> to one of my portable digital players.

>>> We've seen the pictures!

>> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of
>> my basement, partially because I've never had any audio
>> gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that you may
>> have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist when I
>> remodeled my house.

> KROOLOGIC!

No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a simple linear
discussion.

> They WERE NOT pictures of your basement, however,
> they WERE pictures of your basement before you remodeled it.

Wrong on both counts

Wrong. I

>> BTW Art, why don't you tell that lie again you love so
>> much, the one about my crumbling basement?

> Let's see. You are the one that talked about your
> crumbling foundation.

Not at all. The only crumbling foundation I'm aware of that relates to RAO
is Weil's.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger's woke up to the sound of his stereo, so
> watch out everybody, he's in a nasty, bitter, TROLLING
> MOOD:
>
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com

> I gotta say, old man. You really put the line out for
> Jenn today, didn't you? Pray tell, what exactly did she
> do to you, that you would lie to everyone and troll her
> endlessly? Or are you genuinely more confused than usual?

What lies? What troll?

>>> I think you're referring to Arny Krueger... an old crank
>>> who hasn't been down to the basement to listen to his
>>> stereo in 30 years.

>> That's because I don't have much of a basement, and
>> there's no stereo in there at all. At least there's no
>> stereo there unless I go down there while I'm listening
>> to one of my portable digital players.

> I thought your portable digital player WAS your stereo?

Huh?

>>> He still thinks "Victrola" is a brand name at Best Buy.

>> You're making this up, right?

> No, "Victrola" is a real name. Check the gear in your
> basement if you don't beleive me.

I repeat - no audio gear in basement.

>>> I was referring to actually playing and using the CDs.
>>
>> Did I tell you about recording 60 distinct live
>> performances in two days and recording a CD-R for each
>> of them?

> No, I don't think I caught that. Did I tell you about how
> I reconstructed the twin towers in two days flat? If you
> can somehow find a pair of seats on an airplane for you
> and your can and you ever get to NY, you'll see a plaque
> on the front corner that says "This building dedicated to
> soundhaspriority". No guff.

This web site proves that you are lying:

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/newyork/groundzero/


>> Speaks to quality of raw materials:
>>
>> Good CD media:
>> http://www.cdroutlet.com/taiyo-yuden-cdr.htm

> Taiyo Yuden's may be good, but try to find the damn
> things in stores. I've never seen one.

Oh, the nice people who watch over you won't let you order things off the
web?

Too bad.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message


> 2. This is yet another example of you creating a
> disagreement where none exists. I simply AGREED with
> you.

Not about everything, it seems.

> You have clearly shown, yet again, why people
> "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.

Gratuitous personal attack noted.

> In the present example, you take a perfectly innocent reply
> (an AGREEMENT) to one of your posts, and using fractured
> "logic", try to turn it into an argument.

Wrong. I simply brought up a related issue that I thought might be
unrespolved.

However Jenn, you've since turned it into a justification for a personal
attack on me.

Says a lot more about your character than mine.

Sad.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> [The Krooborg] obviously tries to make an argument where there is none. I think
> that the word for that is "troll".

Yes indeed. With the emphasis on crazy pathological liar egomaniac.







--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> > yes, and Jenn agreed with you, they played perfectly, then you
> > started the debating trade bull****.

> His need to "win" even when there is no argument to win is curious.

This is where the recent Krooglish neologism "Dooooooooooh!" comes in.







--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said to the Krooborg:

> You ask for peace, then state why peace is
> not possible, and then prove that stance to be correct by making peace
> impossible. Guess what? You now have achieved your apparent goal: you
> have another "enemy".

I would definitely say you've paid the dues for the Krooger Enemies Club.




--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Harry Lavo]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>> > In article >,
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >>
>> >>> In article >,
>> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >
>> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>
>> >>>>>> Mine too.
>>
>> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>
>> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>
>> >>> Straw man argument noted.
>>
>> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
>> >> "straw man argument"?
>>
>> >>> I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they
>> >>> played perfectly. I
>> >>> guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly,
>> >>> and sound wrong.
>> >>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
>> >>> channel for sound quality.
>> >>> The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was
>> >>> recorded right in the
>> >>> first place.
>>
>> > Exactly right. I posted:
>>
>> >>>>>>> Mine too.
>>
>> > in response to your statement:
>>
>> >>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in
>> >>>>>>>> 1983 when they first came out still plays
>> >>>>>>>> perfectly.
>>
>> > IOW, I was agreeing with you.
>>
>> Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in your false
>> biases.
>>
>> > You then posted:
>>
>> >>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>>
>> > So it is YOU who used a straw man argument.
>>
>> And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.
>>
>> > I stated that they PLAY perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I
>> > wasn't using a straw man argument when I replied with:
>>
>> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>>
>> > I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument.
>>
>> You have a funny way of doing that, Jenn. You didn't say a thing about
>> straw
>> man arguments and now that I trapped you in your false biases, all of a
>> sudden you say you did.
>>
>> >Do you see that?
>>
>> I see that you said nothing about straw man arguments Jenn, and then when
>> you saw that you were trapped in your false bases, you changed your
>> story.
>>
>> >Can you think with enough logic to understand that?
>>
>> I see a false claim of a person who is ahoist their own petard, trying to
>> blame me for their careless thinking.
>>
>> As you often do Jenn, you're trying to change what you said after you
>> said
>> it when you see that it trapped you. Now its time for the usual RAO
>> trolls
>> to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."
>
> 1. I changed NOTHING, Arny. Why do you make things up?
>
> 2. This is yet another example of you creating a disagreement where
> none exists. I simply AGREED with you. You have clearly shown, yet
> again, why people "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
> In the present example, you take a perfectly innocent reply (an
> AGREEMENT) to one of your posts, and using fractured "logic", try to
> turn it into an argument. When it is shown that you clearly made a
> mistake regarding who is using a straw man argument, you just keep up
> the attack. Then down the road, you will whine about people "attacking"
> you, when, as shown above, you bring it on yourself. I've tried over
> and over to be nice to you, agreeing with you at every opportunity.
> This simply doesn't matter to you; you'll repeatedly create strife by
> trolling for an argument. You ask for peace, then state why peace is
> not possible, and then prove that stance to be correct by making peace
> impossible. Guess what? You now have achieved your apparent goal: you
> have another "enemy". Loser.

Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Harry Lavo" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>
> >> >>> In article >,
> >> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >>
> >> >>>>>> Mine too.
> >>
> >> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >>
> >> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
> >>
> >> >>> Straw man argument noted.
> >>
> >> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> >> >> "straw man argument"?
> >>
> >> >>> I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they
> >> >>> played perfectly. I
> >> >>> guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly,
> >> >>> and sound wrong.
> >> >>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
> >> >>> channel for sound quality.
> >> >>> The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was
> >> >>> recorded right in the
> >> >>> first place.
> >>
> >> > Exactly right. I posted:
> >>
> >> >>>>>>> Mine too.
> >>
> >> > in response to your statement:
> >>
> >> >>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in
> >> >>>>>>>> 1983 when they first came out still plays
> >> >>>>>>>> perfectly.
> >>
> >> > IOW, I was agreeing with you.
> >>
> >> Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in your false
> >> biases.
> >>
> >> > You then posted:
> >>
> >> >>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >>
> >> > So it is YOU who used a straw man argument.
> >>
> >> And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.
> >>
> >> > I stated that they PLAY perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I
> >> > wasn't using a straw man argument when I replied with:
> >>
> >> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
> >>
> >> > I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument.
> >>
> >> You have a funny way of doing that, Jenn. You didn't say a thing about
> >> straw
> >> man arguments and now that I trapped you in your false biases, all of a
> >> sudden you say you did.
> >>
> >> >Do you see that?
> >>
> >> I see that you said nothing about straw man arguments Jenn, and then when
> >> you saw that you were trapped in your false bases, you changed your
> >> story.
> >>
> >> >Can you think with enough logic to understand that?
> >>
> >> I see a false claim of a person who is ahoist their own petard, trying to
> >> blame me for their careless thinking.
> >>
> >> As you often do Jenn, you're trying to change what you said after you
> >> said
> >> it when you see that it trapped you. Now its time for the usual RAO
> >> trolls
> >> to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."
> >
> > 1. I changed NOTHING, Arny. Why do you make things up?
> >
> > 2. This is yet another example of you creating a disagreement where
> > none exists. I simply AGREED with you. You have clearly shown, yet
> > again, why people "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
> > In the present example, you take a perfectly innocent reply (an
> > AGREEMENT) to one of your posts, and using fractured "logic", try to
> > turn it into an argument. When it is shown that you clearly made a
> > mistake regarding who is using a straw man argument, you just keep up
> > the attack. Then down the road, you will whine about people "attacking"
> > you, when, as shown above, you bring it on yourself. I've tried over
> > and over to be nice to you, agreeing with you at every opportunity.
> > This simply doesn't matter to you; you'll repeatedly create strife by
> > trolling for an argument. You ask for peace, then state why peace is
> > not possible, and then prove that stance to be correct by making peace
> > impossible. Guess what? You now have achieved your apparent goal: you
> > have another "enemy". Loser.
>
> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.

Exactly.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>
> > 2. This is yet another example of you creating a
> > disagreement where none exists. I simply AGREED with
> > you.
>
> Not about everything, it seems.

Of course.

>
> > You have clearly shown, yet again, why people
> > "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
>
> Gratuitous personal attack noted.

Except that it's not "gratuitous" because there is clear truth behind it.


>
> > In the present example, you take a perfectly innocent reply
> > (an AGREEMENT) to one of your posts, and using fractured
> > "logic", try to turn it into an argument.
>
> Wrong. I simply brought up a related issue that I thought might be
> unrespolved.

Incorrect. You falsely claimed that I used a "straw man" argument when
I didn't.

>
> However Jenn, you've since turned it into a justification for a personal
> attack on me.

Incorrect. You took an innocent agreement with your post and turned it
into an argument. When I point that out you, as predicted, claim that
you've been attacked. It's a cottage industry for you.

> Says a lot more about your character than mine.

Indeed.

>
> Sad.

Yes, it is. You create strife where there was none.

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Fella" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>>"Jenn" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>
>>>>In article >,
>>>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"fogdog" > wrote in message

>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>>>>>>collection and I am wondering what kind of life can I
>>>>>>expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30 years
>>>>>>after the pressing (yes there are hisses and pops here
>>>>>>and there); will my cds be able to do this? I read
>>>>>>somewhere that cds oxidize or something after 15 years
>>>>>>and won't play anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>>Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>>>>>when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>>>>
>>>>Mine too.
>>>
>>>
>>>Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
>
>>Jenn jenn. Don't try to make peace with Arny here. He
>>hates you from here to eternity, live with it.
>
>
> Red herring noted.
>
>

I don't know Arny, the color of any herring, etc, but the lady agreed
with you, why make her instantly regret it?

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..

>
>>> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of
>>> my basement, partially because I've never had any audio
>>> gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that you may
>>> have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist when I
>>> remodeled my house.
>
>> KROOLOGIC!
>
> No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a simple linear
> discussion.
>

Ok, I get it, the ABX fairy posted the picture of
your basement.





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[Clyde Slick]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote:
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >
>> >> In article >,
>> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >>>
>> >>>> In article
>> >>>> >, "Arny
>> >>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> In article >,
>> >>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
>> >>>>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can
>> >>>>>>>> I expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30
>> >>>>>>>> years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and
>> >>>>>>>> pops here and there); will my cds be able to do
>> >>>>>>>> this? I read somewhere that cds oxidize or
>> >>>>>>>> something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
>> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Mine too.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>> >>>
>> >>> Straw man argument noted.
>> >>
>> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
>> >> "straw man argument"?
>> >
>> > I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played
>> > perfectly. I
>> > guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound
>> > wrong.
>> > IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
>> > quality. The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded
>> > right in the first place.
>>
>>
>> yes, and Jenn agreed with you, they played perfectly, then you
>> started the debating trade bull****.
>
> His need to "win" even when there is no argument to win is curious.

more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
you're not playing.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
>
> 1. I changed NOTHING, Arny. Why do you make things up?
>
> 2. This is yet another example of you creating a disagreement where
> none exists. I simply AGREED with you. You have clearly shown, yet
> again, why people "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
> In the present example, you take a perfectly innocent reply (an
> AGREEMENT) to one of your posts, and using fractured "logic", try to
> turn it into an argument. When it is shown that you clearly made a
> mistake regarding who is using a straw man argument, you just keep up
> the attack. Then down the road, you will whine about people "attacking"
> you, when, as shown above, you bring it on yourself. I've tried over
> and over to be nice to you, agreeing with you at every opportunity.
> This simply doesn't matter to you; you'll repeatedly create strife by
> trolling for an argument. You ask for peace, then state why peace is
> not possible, and then prove that stance to be correct by making peace
> impossible. Guess what? You now have achieved your apparent goal: you
> have another "enemy". Loser.


A major breakthrough for Jenn!
She has mastered the introductory course, Kroologic 101.



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[Jenn]

In article >,
"Clyde Slick" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Clyde Slick" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >
> >> >> In article >,
> >> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> In article
> >> >>>> >, "Arny
> >> >>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> In article >,
> >> >>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> "fogdog" > wrote in message
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Over the past year I have been expanding my cd
> >> >>>>>>>> collection and I am wondering what kind of life can
> >> >>>>>>>> I expect from a cd? LPs seem to playback fine 30
> >> >>>>>>>> years after the pressing (yes there are hisses and
> >> >>>>>>>> pops here and there); will my cds be able to do
> >> >>>>>>>> this? I read somewhere that cds oxidize or
> >> >>>>>>>> something after 15 years and won't play anymore.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Mine too.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Straw man argument noted.
> >> >>
> >> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> >> >> "straw man argument"?
> >> >
> >> > I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they played
> >> > perfectly. I
> >> > guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly, and sound
> >> > wrong.
> >> > IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound
> >> > quality. The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was recorded
> >> > right in the first place.
> >>
> >>
> >> yes, and Jenn agreed with you, they played perfectly, then you
> >> started the debating trade bull****.
> >
> > His need to "win" even when there is no argument to win is curious.
>
> more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
> you're not playing.

Evidently.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Wrong. I simply brought up a related issue that I thought might be
> unrespolved.
>
> However Jenn, you've since turned it into a justification for a personal
> attack on me.
>
> Says a lot more about your character than mine.
>
> Sad.
>

If irony ironed your shorts.



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[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
>>
>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
>> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
>
> Exactly.

If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.

I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
we can make is to ourselves.

So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

Scooter is disoriented.

> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>
> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
> we can make is to ourselves.

Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and have fun. Or perhaps
somebody never learned. Nerd, nerd, nerd.






--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Jenn]

In article <0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> >>
> >> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
> >> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
> >
> > Exactly.
>
> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.

Of course. I can ignore him.

>
> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
> we can make is to ourselves.

Obviously.

>
> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?

Responding to him.

> Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Scooter is disoriented.
>
>> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
>> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>>
>> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
>> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
>> we can make is to ourselves.
>
> Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and have fun.

Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
to play with Arny.

>Or perhaps
> somebody never learned. Nerd, nerd, nerd.

So if Arny's a turd in the litterbox....you're the cat.

ScottW

[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article <0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10>,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> >>
>> >> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
>> >> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
>> >
>> > Exactly.
>>
>> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
>> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>
> Of course. I can ignore him.

Now the question is why don't you?

>
>>
>> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
>> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
>> we can make is to ourselves.
>
> Obviously.
>
>>
>> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
>
> Responding to him.
>

So in the end...whining about Arny is pretty hypocritical of you.

Do you want to admit you like to play with him as George
does?

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

Terrierborg worries his bone of the day.

> > Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and have fun.

> Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
> to play with Arny.

You're the one who can't distinguish between the Usenet playground and
your workplace. Nerd.

> >Or perhaps
> > somebody never learned. Nerd, nerd, nerd.

> So if Arny's a turd in the litterbox....you're the cat.

Have you learned to bark at a lower frequency yet?




--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Jenn]

In article <vfWXf.4659$C85.4255@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article <0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10>,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> >>
> >> >> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
> >> >> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
> >> >
> >> > Exactly.
> >>
> >> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
> >> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
> >
> > Of course. I can ignore him.
>
> Now the question is why don't you?

I'm here to discuss things. If Arny or anyone else misstates my
positions, I'll respond. It's really pretty simple.

>
> >
> >>
> >> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> >> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
> >> we can make is to ourselves.
> >
> > Obviously.
> >
> >>
> >> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
> >
> > Responding to him.
> >
>
> So in the end...whining about Arny is pretty hypocritical of you.

You're starting with a false premise, as I'm not "whining" about
anything.

>
> Do you want to admit you like to play with him as George
> does?

No, I just won't let him lie about what I do or my positions.

[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article <vfWXf.4659$C85.4255@dukeread10>,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article <0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10>,
>> > "ScottW" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
>> >> >> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
>> >> >
>> >> > Exactly.
>> >>
>> >> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
>> >> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>> >
>> > Of course. I can ignore him.
>>
>> Now the question is why don't you?
>
> I'm here to discuss things. If Arny or anyone else misstates my
> positions, I'll respond. It's really pretty simple.

Yes... and they will because they know you will.
You risk putting yourself on a string.

>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
>> >> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
>> >> we can make is to ourselves.
>> >
>> > Obviously.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
>> >
>> > Responding to him.
>> >
>>
>> So in the end...whining about Arny is pretty hypocritical of you.
>
> You're starting with a false premise, as I'm not "whining" about
> anything.

Whining is obviously a subjective perception and IMO
....yes, you do whine about Arny quite often.

>
>>
>> Do you want to admit you like to play with him as George
>> does?
>
> No, I just won't let him lie about what I do or my positions.

I hope you don't expect a different outcome. What is
it they say about people who do the same thing over and over
yet expect a different outcome?

ScottW

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Terrierborg worries his bone of the day.
>
>> > Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and have fun.
>
>> Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
>> to play with Arny.
>
> You're the one who can't distinguish between the Usenet playground and
> your workplace. Nerd.

Tell it to Jenn. She's the one expecting to have "discussions"
with Arny.

>
>> >Or perhaps
>> > somebody never learned. Nerd, nerd, nerd.
>
>> So if Arny's a turd in the litterbox....you're the cat.
>
> Have you learned to bark at a lower frequency yet?

Truth hurts your ears at any frequency.

ScottW

[Jenn]

In article <ocXXf.4668$C85.1690@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
> in message ...
> >
> >
> > Terrierborg worries his bone of the day.
> >
> >> > Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and have fun.
> >
> >> Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
> >> to play with Arny.
> >
> > You're the one who can't distinguish between the Usenet playground and
> > your workplace. Nerd.
>
> Tell it to Jenn. She's the one expecting to have "discussions"
> with Arny.

Hope springs eternal.

[[email protected]]

Arny,
Do you really have nothing better to do?
Ludovic Mirabel

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in 1983
> >>>>>>> when they first came out still plays perfectly.
>
> >>>>>> Mine too.
>
> >>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> >>> Straw man argument noted.
>
> >> LOL OK, I have to hear this. How is what I said a
> >> "straw man argument"?
>
> >>> I never said that the CDs sounded perfect, I said they
> >>> played perfectly. I
> >>> guess I have to point out that a CD can play perfectly,
> >>> and sound wrong.
> >>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
> >>> channel for sound quality.
> >>> The CD format doesn't guarantee that the music was
> >>> recorded right in the
> >>> first place.
>
> > Exactly right. I posted:
>
> >>>>>>> Mine too.
>
> > in response to your statement:
>
> >>>>>>>> Every of the several dozen CDs I bought back in
> >>>>>>>> 1983 when they first came out still plays
> >>>>>>>> perfectly.
>
> > IOW, I was agreeing with you.
>
> Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in your false biases.
>
> > You then posted:
>
> >>>>>> Nahh, the strings don't sound right, didn't you say?
>
> > So it is YOU who used a straw man argument.
>
> And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.
>
> > I stated that they PLAY perfectly, not that they sound perfect. I
> > wasn't using a straw man argument when I replied with:
>
> >>>> I didn't say that they sound perfect.
>
> > I was pointing out YOUR straw man argument.
>
> You have a funny way of doing that, Jenn. You didn't say a thing about straw
> man arguments and now that I trapped you in your false biases, all of a
> sudden you say you did.
>
> >Do you see that?
>
> I see that you said nothing about straw man arguments Jenn, and then when
> you saw that you were trapped in your false bases, you changed your story.
>
> >Can you think with enough logic to understand that?
>
> I see a false claim of a person who is ahoist their own petard, trying to
> blame me for their careless thinking.
>
> As you often do Jenn, you're trying to change what you said after you said
> it when you see that it trapped you. Now its time for the usual RAO trolls
> to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."

[Jenn]

In article <q9XXf.4667$C85.2601@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article <vfWXf.4659$C85.4255@dukeread10>,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article <0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10>,
> >> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
> >> >> >> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Exactly.
> >> >>
> >> >> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
> >> >> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
> >> >
> >> > Of course. I can ignore him.
> >>
> >> Now the question is why don't you?
> >
> > I'm here to discuss things. If Arny or anyone else misstates my
> > positions, I'll respond. It's really pretty simple.
>
> Yes... and they will because they know you will.
> You risk putting yourself on a string.

Of course.
>
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> >> >> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
> >> >> we can make is to ourselves.
> >> >
> >> > Obviously.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
> >> >
> >> > Responding to him.
> >> >
> >>
> >> So in the end...whining about Arny is pretty hypocritical of you.
> >
> > You're starting with a false premise, as I'm not "whining" about
> > anything.
>
> Whining is obviously a subjective perception

Obviously.

> and IMO
> ...yes, you do whine about Arny quite often.

Thanks for your opinion; I obviously disagree. I respond to Arny, not
whine about him.

>
> >
> >>
> >> Do you want to admit you like to play with him as George
> >> does?
> >
> > No, I just won't let him lie about what I do or my positions.
>
> I hope you don't expect a different outcome. What is
> it they say about people who do the same thing over and over
> yet expect a different outcome?

Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about change in
Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
chase, no doubt.

[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
>
> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about change in
> Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
> chase, no doubt.

I don't mean to be jaded by experience but I am.
And not just with Arny as you've probably noted.

ScottW

[Jenn]

In article <tuYXf.4678$C85.2001@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about change in
> > Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
> > chase, no doubt.
>
> I don't mean to be jaded by experience but I am.
> And not just with Arny as you've probably noted.

I'm getting there. You'll know that I'm there with you when I no longer
show up here.

[Clyde Slick]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10...
>

>
> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
> we can make is to ourselves.
>

Not if you can push him in front of a bus.



--
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[Clyde Slick]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:q9XXf.4667$C85.2601@dukeread10...
>
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article <vfWXf.4659$C85.4255@dukeread10>,
>> "ScottW" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> > In article <0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10>,
>>> > "ScottW" > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> >> ...
>>> >> > In article >,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this entire forum
>>> >> >> facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of the discussion.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Exactly.
>>> >>
>>> >> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can change
>>> >> to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>>> >
>>> > Of course. I can ignore him.
>>>
>>> Now the question is why don't you?
>>
>> I'm here to discuss things. If Arny or anyone else misstates my
>> positions, I'll respond. It's really pretty simple.
>
> Yes... and they will because they know you will.
> You risk putting yourself on a string.
>
>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
>>> >> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective change
>>> >> we can make is to ourselves.
>>> >
>>> > Obviously.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
>>> >
>>> > Responding to him.
>>> >
>>>
>>> So in the end...whining about Arny is pretty hypocritical of you.
>>
>> You're starting with a false premise, as I'm not "whining" about
>> anything.
>
> Whining is obviously a subjective perception and IMO
> ...yes, you do whine about Arny quite often.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Do you want to admit you like to play with him as George
>>> does?
>>
>> No, I just won't let him lie about what I do or my positions.
>
> I hope you don't expect a different outcome. What is
> it they say about people who do the same thing over and over
> yet expect a different outcome?
>
> ScottW

it doesn't matter what you do with that asshole, he's an asshole
and he's going to continue to be an asshole, whether you play
with him, ignore him, or be nice to him..
I'm not trying to change Arny, all I'm trying to do is facilitate
his efforts to have everybody hate him.



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[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article <tuYXf.4678$C85.2001@dukeread10>,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about change
>> > in
>> > Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A
>> > fool's
>> > chase, no doubt.
>>
>> I don't mean to be jaded by experience but I am.
>> And not just with Arny as you've probably noted.
>
> I'm getting there. You'll know that I'm there with you when I no longer
> show up here.

Try not to let Arny or George make that call. Neither shares nor respects
your
stated purpose making them 2 peas in the same pod AFAIAC.

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> 2. This is yet another example of you creating a
>>> disagreement where none exists. I simply AGREED with
>>> you.
>>
>> Not about everything, it seems.
>
> Of course.
>
>>
>>> You have clearly shown, yet again, why people
>>> "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
>>
>> Gratuitous personal attack noted.
>
> Except that it's not "gratuitous" because there is clear
> truth behind it.

Yes Jenn, you're never wrong.

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" > wrote in message


> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of
> the discussion.

Harry, it's called star power.

One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate and you were out in
the audience trying to hijack it.

[Arny Krueger]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>>>
>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>> of the discussion.
>>
>> Exactly.
>
> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can
> change to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>
> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective
> change we can make is to ourselves.
>
> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
> Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).

Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into yet another round of
personal attacks by her on me.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article <ocXXf.4668$C85.1690@dukeread10>,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at]
>> comcast [dot] net> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> Terrierborg worries his bone of the day.
>>>
>>>>> Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and
>>>>> have fun.
>>>
>>>> Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
>>>> to play with Arny.
>>>
>>> You're the one who can't distinguish between the Usenet
>>> playground and your workplace. Nerd.
>>
>> Tell it to Jenn. She's the one expecting to have
>> "discussions"
>> with Arny.
>
> Hope springs eternal.

Jenn, you lack the self-control required to keep ad hominem attacks out of
the discussion.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message


> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic
> about change in Arny's behavior, and therefore about the
> nature of this group. A fool's chase, no doubt.

The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.

She's the one who started the personal attacks on me. Again.

[Harry Lavo]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>
>
>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of
>> the discussion.
>
> Harry, it's called star power.
>
> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate and you were out
> in the audience trying to hijack it.

If you call your performance here "star power" Arny, you are weirder than I
thought.

And if you call asking a question, even a long one, in an open discussion
forum following the debate "hijacking" the forum, then you have even more
insecurity than most of us believe...and believe me, you already show enough
on this forum to people who understand human behavior.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message


> I'm not trying to change Arny, all I'm trying to do is
> facilitate his efforts to have everybody hate him.

It's a great cover for Art's reprehensive activities. "Look over there,
cakes"

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message


>> more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
>> you're not playing.

> Evidently.

Jenn not playing?

LOL!

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> . ..
>
>>
>>>> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of
>>>> my basement, partially because I've never had any audio
>>>> gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that you may
>>>> have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist when I
>>>> remodeled my house.
>>
>>> KROOLOGIC!
>>
>> No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a
>> simple linear discussion.
>>
>
> Ok, I get it, the ABX fairy posted the picture of
> your basement.

Delusions of non-existent picture of my basement noted.

[Arny Krueger]

"Harry Lavo" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>> of the discussion.

>> Harry, it's called star power.

>> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate
>> and you were out in the audience trying to hijack it.

> If you call your performance here "star power" Arny, you
> are weirder than I thought.

It's not about my performance, its about the usual targeting of me by the
usual ankle biters.

> And if you call asking a question, even a long one, in an
> open discussion forum following the debate "hijacking"
> the forum, then you have even more insecurity than most
> of us believe...and believe me, you already show enough
> on this forum to people who understand human behavior.

What question, Harry? It was a declaration of your religious beliefs about
audio, pure and simple.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>
> >> more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
> >> you're not playing.
>
> > Evidently.
>
> Jenn not playing?
>
> LOL!

I wasn't "playing" when you starting your usual game; I simply agreed
with your post.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article <ocXXf.4668$C85.1690@dukeread10>,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at]
> >> comcast [dot] net> wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Terrierborg worries his bone of the day.
> >>>
> >>>>> Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and
> >>>>> have fun.
> >>>
> >>>> Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
> >>>> to play with Arny.
> >>>
> >>> You're the one who can't distinguish between the Usenet
> >>> playground and your workplace. Nerd.
> >>
> >> Tell it to Jenn. She's the one expecting to have
> >> "discussions"
> >> with Arny.
> >
> > Hope springs eternal.
>
> Jenn, you lack the self-control required to keep ad hominem attacks out of
> the discussion.

I see.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10
> > "Jenn" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> In article
> >> >,
> >>>
> >>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
> >>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
> >>> of the discussion.
> >>
> >> Exactly.
> >
> > If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can
> > change to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
> >
> > I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who fairly
> > effectively demonstrated that the only real and effective
> > change we can make is to ourselves.
> >
> > So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
> > Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).
>
> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into yet another round of
> personal attacks by her on me.

Arny turned a conversation where I was AGREEING with him into criticism
of me.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>
>
> > Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
> > entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of
> > the discussion.
>
> Harry, it's called star power.

LOL

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >>> 2. This is yet another example of you creating a
> >>> disagreement where none exists. I simply AGREED with
> >>> you.
> >>
> >> Not about everything, it seems.
> >
> > Of course.
> >
> >>
> >>> You have clearly shown, yet again, why people
> >>> "attack" you: you are a throughly disagreeable person.
> >>
> >> Gratuitous personal attack noted.
> >
> > Except that it's not "gratuitous" because there is clear
> > truth behind it.
>
> Yes Jenn, you're never wrong.

Yet another straw man claim.

[Jenn]

In article <NR_Xf.4692$C85.917@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article <tuYXf.4678$C85.2001@dukeread10>,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about change
> >> > in
> >> > Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A
> >> > fool's
> >> > chase, no doubt.
> >>
> >> I don't mean to be jaded by experience but I am.
> >> And not just with Arny as you've probably noted.
> >
> > I'm getting there. You'll know that I'm there with you when I no longer
> > show up here.
>
> Try not to let Arny or George make that call. Neither shares nor respects
> your
> stated purpose making them 2 peas in the same pod AFAIAC.
>
> ScottW

I won't, except to the extent that nothing productive can happen here
due to such trolling.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

From: Arny Krueger
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 5:42 am
Email: "Arny Krueger" >

>Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in your false biases.

>And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.

>Now its time for the usual RAO trolls
>to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."

But Arny, you just confessed to trolling.

Are your trolls any better than anybody else's trolls?

And the 'logic' that you used is false, BTW...

[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article <NR_Xf.4692$C85.917@dukeread10>,
> "ScottW" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article <tuYXf.4678$C85.2001@dukeread10>,
>> > "ScottW" > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about
>> >> > change
>> >> > in
>> >> > Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A
>> >> > fool's
>> >> > chase, no doubt.
>> >>
>> >> I don't mean to be jaded by experience but I am.
>> >> And not just with Arny as you've probably noted.
>> >
>> > I'm getting there. You'll know that I'm there with you when I no
>> > longer
>> > show up here.
>>
>> Try not to let Arny or George make that call. Neither shares nor
>> respects
>> your
>> stated purpose making them 2 peas in the same pod AFAIAC.
>>
>> ScottW
>
> I won't, except to the extent that nothing productive can happen here
> due to such trolling.

Sure it can. YOU just have to have enough spine to not
let it distract you when you don't want it to.

ScottW

[ScottW]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> > Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>> > entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of
>> > the discussion.
>>
>> Harry, it's called star power.
>
> LOL

Is this engaging in discussion?
Beware the dark side :).

ScottW

[Jenn]

In article <0c0Yf.4697$C85.3571@dukeread10>,
"ScottW" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article <NR_Xf.4692$C85.917@dukeread10>,
> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article <tuYXf.4678$C85.2001@dukeread10>,
> >> > "ScottW" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic about
> >> >> > change
> >> >> > in
> >> >> > Arny's behavior, and therefore about the nature of this group. A
> >> >> > fool's
> >> >> > chase, no doubt.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't mean to be jaded by experience but I am.
> >> >> And not just with Arny as you've probably noted.
> >> >
> >> > I'm getting there. You'll know that I'm there with you when I no
> >> > longer
> >> > show up here.
> >>
> >> Try not to let Arny or George make that call. Neither shares nor
> >> respects
> >> your
> >> stated purpose making them 2 peas in the same pod AFAIAC.
> >>
> >> ScottW
> >
> > I won't, except to the extent that nothing productive can happen here
> > due to such trolling.
>
> Sure it can. YOU just have to have enough spine to not
> let it distract you when you don't want it to.

Of course.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>
>
>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece of
>> the discussion.
>
> Harry, it's called star power.
>
> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate and you were out
> in the audience trying to hijack it.
>

Too bad, you didn't have enough star power
to command an entourage. Where was Tommi and Mikey?
Who held your satellite dish in place and replenished your peanuts?



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..

>
> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into yet another round
> of personal attacks by her on me.
>

I'm almost crying.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>
>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic
>> about change in Arny's behavior, and therefore about the
>> nature of this group. A fool's chase, no doubt.
>
> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
>
> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me. Again.
>

She didn't attack you, she agreed with you.
After that, her probings were handled with kid gloves.
AS for the rest of us, we don't wish to personally attack you either,
we just want to push you out in front of a moving city bus. Well, I guess
an intercity bus would do just as well.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
. ..
>

> And if you call asking a question, even a long one, in an open discussion
> forum following the debate "hijacking" the forum, then you have even more
> insecurity than most of us believe...and believe me, you already show
> enough on this forum to people who understand human behavior.
>

And to those of us who
understand inhuman behavior.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>
>> I'm not trying to change Arny, all I'm trying to do is
>> facilitate his efforts to have everybody hate him.
>
> It's a great cover for Art's reprehensive activities. "Look over there,
> cakes"
>

Chocolate?



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
>
>>> more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
>>> you're not playing.
>
>> Evidently.
>
> Jenn not playing?
>
> LOL!
>

Yes, AGREEING WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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[Clyde Slick]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>> > Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic
>> > about change in Arny's behavior, and therefore about the
>> > nature of this group. A fool's chase, no doubt.
>>
>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
>
> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I am using an "I'm a
> victim smokescreen" in what Arny quoted above? Anyone?
>
>>
>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me. Again.
>
> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim smokescreen". Again.

Arny is merely plying his debating trade. When there aren't enough
arguments to 'win', he has to make some up.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> But Arny, you just confessed to trolling.
>
> Are your trolls any better than anybody else's trolls?
>
> And the 'logic' that you used is false, BTW...
>

Not n the world of Kroologic.



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[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

From: Arny Krueger
Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:50 pm
Email: "Arny Krueger" >

>What question, Harry? It was a declaration of your religious beliefs about
>audio, pure and simple.

Please do not confuse religious beliefs with spirituality.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article <ocXXf.4668$C85.1690@dukeread10>,
>>> "ScottW" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at]
>>>> comcast [dot] net> wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Terrierborg worries his bone of the day.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Somebody has forgotten what it's like to play and
>>>>>>> have fun.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice admission George, but I always knew you liked
>>>>>> to play with Arny.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're the one who can't distinguish between the
>>>>> Usenet playground and your workplace. Nerd.

>>>> Tell it to Jenn. She's the one expecting to have
>>>> "discussions"
>>>> with Arny.

>>> Hope springs eternal.

It takes more than hope to succeed - some rational thought and avoidance of
emotional crutches can help.

>> Jenn, you lack the self-control required to keep ad
>> hominem attacks out of the discussion.

> I see.

OK, so you think tht you're not totally blind, Jenn. Then, it must be the
part where you reach reasonable conclusions from what you see that is your
problem.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic
>>> about change in Arny's behavior, and therefore about the
>>> nature of this group. A fool's chase, no doubt.
>>
>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
>
> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I am
> using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what Arny quoted
> above? Anyone?
>
>>
>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me.
>> Again.
>
> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
> smokescreen". Again.

Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of mindless thrashing,
I'm hardly a victim.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10
>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article
>>>> >,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>>>> of the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly.
>>>
>>> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can
>>> change to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>>>
>>> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who
>>> fairly effectively demonstrated that the only real and
>>> effective change we can make is to ourselves.
>>>
>>> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
>>> Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).
>>
>> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into
>> yet another round of personal attacks by her on me.
>
> Arny turned a conversation where I was AGREEING with him
> into criticism of me.

Not before you started with your latest round of personal attacks on me.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>
>> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into
>> yet another round of personal attacks by her on me.
>>
>
> I'm almost crying.

It's true that you use displays of mental anguish as a substitute for
thinking.

[Arny Krueger]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
wrote in message
oups.com
> From: Arny Krueger
> Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 8:50 pm
> Email: "Arny Krueger" >
>
>> What question, Harry? It was a declaration of your
>> religious beliefs about audio, pure and simple.
>
> Please do not confuse religious beliefs with spirituality.

I'm under the impression that Harry is an atheist.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>
>> And if you call asking a question, even a long one, in
>> an open discussion forum following the debate
>> "hijacking" the forum, then you have even more
>> insecurity than most of us believe...and believe me, you
>> already show enough on this forum to people who
>> understand human behavior.
>
> And to those of us who
> understand inhuman behavior.

Art shows us his great expertise with co-dependency. How many years have
you been co-dependent with Middius, Art?

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>> of the discussion.
>>
>> Harry, it's called star power.
>>
>> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate
>> and you were out in the audience trying to hijack it.

> Too bad, you didn't have enough star power
> to command an entourage.

Huh?

> Where was Tommi and Mikey?

Ask them.

> Who held your satellite dish in place and replenished
> your peanuts?

Just goes to show that Art doesn't know what having a Comcast email address
implies about satellite dishes.

[Arny Krueger]

"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" >
wrote in message
ups.com
> From: Arny Krueger
> Date: Sun, Apr 2 2006 5:42 am
> Email: "Arny Krueger" >
>
>> Of course. Then I decided to see if I could trap you in
>> your false biases.
>
>> And you took the bait, hook line and sinker.
>
>> Now its time for the usual RAO trolls
>> to join you in your pity party. "Arny is so mean..."
>
> But Arny, you just confessed to trolling.

But I'm not a usual troll.

> Are your trolls any better than anybody else's trolls?

Far more effective, to say the least. I've trolled more than 1,000 personal
attacks with a single post.

> And the 'logic' that you used is false, BTW...

Prove it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>> more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
>>>> you're not playing.
>>
>>> Evidently.
>>
>> Jenn not playing?
>>
>> LOL!
>
> I wasn't "playing" when you starting your usual game; I
> simply agreed with your post.

Despite your continual lying and whinign Jenn, I had no problem with your
first comment which was indeed an agreement.

It was my follow-up question that tripped you up. In baseball, its called
the "change up" pitch. You struck out.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> . ..
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures
>>>>>> of my basement, partially because I've never had any
>>>>>> audio gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that
>>>>>> you may have seen were of area(s) that ceased to
>>>>>> exist when I remodeled my house.
>>>>
>>>>> KROOLOGIC!
>>>>
>>>> No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a
>>>> simple linear discussion.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, I get it, the ABX fairy posted the picture of
>>> your basement.
>>
>> Delusions of non-existent picture of my basement noted.
>
> Once again Arny-have you nothing better to do with
> your time?

Just checking to see if the usual tricks work with the usual suckers.

> If one wanted to demonstrate how far
> the RAO strayed from its original purpose one
> only needs to quote from this thread.

It's true that Jenn and Art pretty well trashed it with their personal
attacks and whining.

> Someone wanted an opinion about
> durability of cds.

And I gave a factual response.

Let the games begin!

> Hundred messages later -if
> he' lasts that long he will relive all the
> back-stabbbing,animosities, smouldering grudges
> going on for ever and a bit.

Actually, any number of back-stabbbing,animosities, and smouldering grudges
have not yet expressed themselves. But you managed to join in, Ludo.


> And it all began because Jenn agreed
> with you.

No, it began when Jenn failed to respond rationally to my follow-up
question.

> But not abjectly enough. Not with
> recantation and apology, wallowing in the dust
> for her past sins, like preferring the strings
> on lp.to strings on cd. Soon such as the RAO professional
> ankle-biter join the fun
> ezplaining to Jenn in several messages that the
> fault is all hers for replying.

The problem was not with the fact that she replied, the problem was with her
reply. I see that Jenn has mislead you as well, Ludo.

> And another fascinating audio opinion discussion
> flows in its own gutter.

You seem to be adding to the flow of that gutter, Ludo.

Just had to pile on, didn't you?

> Anyone, new to audio, looking at this
> garbage-bin will decide to take up stamp
> collecting instead.

Just in case they didn't see the futility to it all Ludo, you had to dump
thousands of more bytes of bilge onto the thread, didn't you Ludo?

> The fault is largely yours Arny.

Not at all. I simply asked a question and Jenn went ballistic rather than
give a cogent reply.

> You've been seeing any disagreement with your
> views as a personal hostility issue.

So Ludo, you think that Jenn's personal attacks on me aren't a result of
back-stabbbing,animosities, smouldering grudges that dominate this place?

LOL!

> I guess it is hopeless to try to make
> you see that one can meet a friend again and
> again to have an interesting argument.

Been there done that many times. Just not on RAO lately.

>I know
> that you'll list me amongst your foes for saying
> this but your attitude to disagreement is morbid
> and potentially dangerous.

Ludo, to be a credible foe, a person would have to be effective. Don't fool
yourself!

> Stalin and Mao never forgot a grudge.


Neither have Middius, Sackman, Ludovic, or the rest of the usual RAO trolls.

>Thankfully
> not everyone with that trait gets
> powers beyond voicing and writing to act out his
> paranoia.

In English?

> You have much to contribute.

Not only that Ludo, I continue to contribute it. No matter how you spin it
Ludo, I still contribute more factual on-topic posts to RAO than anybody
else.

> In the
> past when I asked for your help on a technical
> issue you gave it skilfully and generously.

I still would, if you weren't so busy pilng onto yet another attack Arny
thread.

> If you change RAO may change as well.

I change up every time I make another contribute more factual on-topic posts
to RAO. Look what little good that does?

> Paul Packer, Harry Lavo, myself are not your
> enemies.

Unlike you Ludo, I can't read their minds. However, the evidence at hand
suggests that they still get their rocks off by attacking me.

>We just have different viewing angle
> from yours on some subjects.

Remind me again where we agree Ludo?

> As for Jenn RAO is fortunate to
> hear a professional musician interested in audio.

If Jenn could stick to that it might be a good thing. However, her goal is
to lord it over us because of her elevated position in life (at least in her
eyes).


> Most consider it toys for kids who do not
> understand what real music sounds like, We
> should value her as a resource.

Resource of what, denigration of one's preferences for accurate
reproduction?

> She reports what
> she hears not what she expects to hear after
> reading the measurements and what she hears is
> significant.

Ludo, anybody who thinks that one's expectations can't profoundly affect
their perceptions, even if they are the goddess Jenn, is ahem
poorly-informed.

> Her living depends on it.

Nope.

Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an undending series of
junior colleges that want to affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score
points for political correctness, without polluting the core program.

[paul packer]

On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:05:38 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect channel for sound quality.

You're kidding, aren't you, Arnie? You must be the only person since
1983 who seriously claims that CD is everything it could have been.
"Perfect" indeed!

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>>> . ..
>>
>>>
>>>>> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of
>>>>> my basement, partially because I've never had any audio
>>>>> gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that you may
>>>>> have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist when I
>>>>> remodeled my house.
>>>
>>>> KROOLOGIC!
>>>
>>> No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a
>>> simple linear discussion.
>>>
>>
>> Ok, I get it, the ABX fairy posted the picture of
>> your basement.
>
> Delusions of non-existent picture of my basement noted.
>

Liar



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..

>
> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an undending series of
> junior colleges that want to affect a resident conductor. Easy way to
> score points for political correctness, without polluting the core
> program.
>

Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
end up at Oakland U



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Not before you started with your latest round of personal attacks on me.
>

"Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of mindless thrashing,
I'm hardly a victim." Arny Krueger, one minute ago!




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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>>
>>
>>> And if you call asking a question, even a long one, in
>>> an open discussion forum following the debate
>>> "hijacking" the forum, then you have even more
>>> insecurity than most of us believe...and believe me, you
>>> already show enough on this forum to people who
>>> understand human behavior.
>>
>> And to those of us who
>> understand inhuman behavior.
>
> Art shows us his great expertise with co-dependency. How many years have
> you been co-dependent with Middius, Art?
>

He is one of my sources of daily humor.
he's a lot funnier than you are, Arny.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>>> of the discussion.
>>>
>>> Harry, it's called star power.
>>>
>>> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate
>>> and you were out in the audience trying to hijack it.
>
>> Too bad, you didn't have enough star power
>> to command an entourage.
>
> Huh?
>
>> Where was Tommi and Mikey?
>
> Ask them.
>
>> Who held your satellite dish in place and replenished
>> your peanuts?
>
> Just goes to show that Art doesn't know what having a Comcast email
> address implies about satellite dishes.
>

is it treu that you paid Bobby $7,000 to shoot you in the ass?



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..

> Far more effective, to say the least. I've trolled more than 1,000
> personal attacks with a single post.
>

AND PROUD OF IT!!!!!!



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..

> It was my follow-up question that tripped you up. In baseball, its called
> the "change up" pitch. You struck out.
>

Actually, it was a ****ball, similar to a spitball, but...



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[paul packer]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> wrote:

>
>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>> Not before you started with your latest round of personal attacks on me.
>>
>
>"Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of mindless thrashing,
>I'm hardly a victim." Arny Krueger, one minute ago!

Don't quote Arny to himself, Art. Play fair!

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..

>> Not before you started with your latest round of
>> personal attacks on me.

> "Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim." Arny Krueger,
> one minute ago!

So Art does me the honor of calling me the most powerful person on RAO.

"Arny made me do it" justifies any possible act.

Thanks Art!

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>
>>>> And if you call asking a question, even a long one, in
>>>> an open discussion forum following the debate
>>>> "hijacking" the forum, then you have even more
>>>> insecurity than most of us believe...and believe me,
>>>> you already show enough on this forum to people who
>>>> understand human behavior.
>>>
>>> And to those of us who
>>> understand inhuman behavior.
>>
>> Art shows us his great expertise with co-dependency. How many years have
>> you been co-dependent with Middius,
>> Art?

> He is one of my sources of daily humor.

Small minds are fascinated with small things.

> he's a lot funnier than you are, Arny.

Sez a certifiable dimwit.

[MINe 109]

In article >,
(paul packer) wrote:

> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >>
> >> Not before you started with your latest round of personal attacks on me.
> >>
> >
> >"Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of mindless thrashing,
> >I'm hardly a victim." Arny Krueger, one minute ago!
>
> Don't quote Arny to himself, Art. Play fair!

If Jenn hadn't replied at all, then he'd be the victim!

Stephen

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>>>> of the discussion.
>>>>
>>>> Harry, it's called star power.
>>>>
>>>> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate
>>>> and you were out in the audience trying to hijack it.
>>
>>> Too bad, you didn't have enough star power
>>> to command an entourage.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>>> Where was Tommi and Mikey?
>>
>> Ask them.
>>
>>> Who held your satellite dish in place and replenished
>>> your peanuts?
>>
>> Just goes to show that Art doesn't know what having a
>> Comcast email address implies about satellite dishes.
>>
>
> is it treu that you paid Bobby $7,000 to shoot you in the
> ass?

Nothing is treu.

Who is Bobby?

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..

>> Far more effective, to say the least. I've trolled more
>> than 1,000 personal attacks with a single post.

> AND PROUD OF IT!!!!!!

Thanks for admitting that you are so envious of me, Art.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:05:38 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>
>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
>> channel for sound quality.

> You're kidding, aren't you, Arnie?

There's really no need for me to answer this question because, in the
following sentence, you prove conclusively that you can't read and
comprehend even relatively simple sentences:

> You must be the only
> person since 1983 who seriously claims that CD is
> everything it could have been.

Most would say that the CD is far more than it was expected to be. For one
thing it blew the LP of the market far more quickly than expected. Not only
that, the CD also blew the following "improved" formats off the market:

HDCD
SACD
DVD_A
CD with green pen, as recommended by numerious high end audio "authorities".
CD with Armor-All protectorant, as recommended by Stereophile


>"Perfect" indeed!

Excluded-middle argument. Nothing is perfect.

[Arny Krueger]

"MINe 109" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> (paul packer) wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> Not before you started with your latest round of
>>>> personal attacks on me.
>>>>
>>>
>>> "Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim." Arny
>>> Krueger, one minute ago!
>>
>> Don't quote Arny to himself, Art. Play fair!
>
> If Jenn hadn't replied at all, then he'd be the victim!

See Stephen, I've now trolled even the greatest of all - you!

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>
>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
>> undending series of junior colleges that want to affect
>> a resident conductor. Easy way to score points for
>> political correctness, without polluting the core
>> program.

> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
> end up at Oakland U.

Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in residence, that seems
unlikely.

http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480

"Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as the summer home of
the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an acoustically superb venue for orchestral
concerts. The Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start of all
concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> > She's the one who started the personal attacks on me. Again.

> She didn't attack you, she agreed with you.

Kroologic tells us those two actions are the same, as in identical, i.e.
not different or distinct. To agree with the Krooborg is to attack him.





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> > wrote in message
> ups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>> ...
> >>>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in
> >>>>>> message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>> . ..
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures
> >>>>>> of my basement, partially because I've never had any
> >>>>>> audio gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that
> >>>>>> you may have seen were of area(s) that ceased to
> >>>>>> exist when I remodeled my house.
> >>>>
> >>>>> KROOLOGIC!
> >>>>
> >>>> No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a
> >>>> simple linear discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Ok, I get it, the ABX fairy posted the picture of
> >>> your basement.
> >>
> >> Delusions of non-existent picture of my basement noted.
> >
> > Once again Arny-have you nothing better to do with
> > your time?
>
> Just checking to see if the usual tricks work with the usual suckers.
>
> > If one wanted to demonstrate how far
> > the RAO strayed from its original purpose one
> > only needs to quote from this thread.
>
> It's true that Jenn and Art pretty well trashed it with their personal
> attacks and whining.

LOL

>
> > Someone wanted an opinion about
> > durability of cds.
>
> And I gave a factual response.
>
> Let the games begin!
>
> > Hundred messages later -if
> > he' lasts that long he will relive all the
> > back-stabbbing,animosities, smouldering grudges
> > going on for ever and a bit.
>
> Actually, any number of back-stabbbing,animosities, and smouldering grudges
> have not yet expressed themselves. But you managed to join in, Ludo.
>
>
> > And it all began because Jenn agreed
> > with you.
>
> No, it began when Jenn failed to respond rationally to my follow-up
> question.

No, it started when you failed to understand the difference between
"plays perfectly" and "sounds good".

>
> > But not abjectly enough. Not with
> > recantation and apology, wallowing in the dust
> > for her past sins, like preferring the strings
> > on lp.to strings on cd. Soon such as the RAO professional
> > ankle-biter join the fun
> > ezplaining to Jenn in several messages that the
> > fault is all hers for replying.
>
> The problem was not with the fact that she replied, the problem was with her
> reply. I see that Jenn has mislead you as well, Ludo.
>
> > And another fascinating audio opinion discussion
> > flows in its own gutter.
>
> You seem to be adding to the flow of that gutter, Ludo.
>
> Just had to pile on, didn't you?
>
> > Anyone, new to audio, looking at this
> > garbage-bin will decide to take up stamp
> > collecting instead.
>
> Just in case they didn't see the futility to it all Ludo, you had to dump
> thousands of more bytes of bilge onto the thread, didn't you Ludo?
>
> > The fault is largely yours Arny.
>
> Not at all. I simply asked a question and Jenn went ballistic rather than
> give a cogent reply.

I agreed with you about the "plays perfectly" statement, then you failed
to understand the difference between that and the sound of the medium.
Then you started in about "straw man arguments" blah blah blah.

>
> > You've been seeing any disagreement with your
> > views as a personal hostility issue.
>
> So Ludo, you think that Jenn's personal attacks on me aren't a result of
> back-stabbbing,animosities, smouldering grudges that dominate this place?

My "attack" on you is a result of being fed up with your lies.

>
> LOL!
>
> > I guess it is hopeless to try to make
> > you see that one can meet a friend again and
> > again to have an interesting argument.
>
> Been there done that many times. Just not on RAO lately.
>
> >I know
> > that you'll list me amongst your foes for saying
> > this but your attitude to disagreement is morbid
> > and potentially dangerous.
>
> Ludo, to be a credible foe, a person would have to be effective. Don't fool
> yourself!
>
> > Stalin and Mao never forgot a grudge.
>
>
> Neither have Middius, Sackman, Ludovic, or the rest of the usual RAO trolls.
>
> >Thankfully
> > not everyone with that trait gets
> > powers beyond voicing and writing to act out his
> > paranoia.
>
> In English?
>
> > You have much to contribute.
>
> Not only that Ludo, I continue to contribute it. No matter how you spin it
> Ludo, I still contribute more factual on-topic posts to RAO than anybody
> else.
>
> > In the
> > past when I asked for your help on a technical
> > issue you gave it skilfully and generously.
>
> I still would, if you weren't so busy pilng onto yet another attack Arny
> thread.
>
> > If you change RAO may change as well.
>
> I change up every time I make another contribute more factual on-topic posts
> to RAO. Look what little good that does?
>
> > Paul Packer, Harry Lavo, myself are not your
> > enemies.
>
> Unlike you Ludo, I can't read their minds. However, the evidence at hand
> suggests that they still get their rocks off by attacking me.
>
> >We just have different viewing angle
> > from yours on some subjects.
>
> Remind me again where we agree Ludo?
>
> > As for Jenn RAO is fortunate to
> > hear a professional musician interested in audio.
>
> If Jenn could stick to that it might be a good thing. However, her goal is
> to lord it over us because of her elevated position in life (at least in her
> eyes).

Yet another straw man argument.

>
>
> > Most consider it toys for kids who do not
> > understand what real music sounds like, We
> > should value her as a resource.
>
> Resource of what, denigration of one's preferences for accurate
> reproduction?
>
> > She reports what
> > she hears not what she expects to hear after
> > reading the measurements and what she hears is
> > significant.
>
> Ludo, anybody who thinks that one's expectations can't profoundly affect
> their perceptions, even if they are the goddess Jenn, is ahem
> poorly-informed.
>
> > Her living depends on it.
>
> Nope.

Incorrect.

>
> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an undending series of
> junior colleges that want to affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score
> points for political correctness, without polluting the core program.

LOL Thanks for admitting that you don't understand the music profession.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >>>> more to the point, 'you' must lose, even when
> >>>> you're not playing.
> >>
> >>> Evidently.
> >>
> >> Jenn not playing?
> >>
> >> LOL!
> >
> > I wasn't "playing" when you starting your usual game; I
> > simply agreed with your post.
>
> Despite your continual lying and whinign Jenn, I had no problem with your
> first comment which was indeed an agreement.
>
> It was my follow-up question that tripped you up. In baseball, its called
> the "change up" pitch. You struck out.

The "change up" was that your question had nothing to do with your
statement, with which I agreed.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >> news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10
> >>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>>> In article
> >>>> >,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
> >>>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
> >>>>> of the discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>> Exactly.
> >>>
> >>> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can
> >>> change to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
> >>>
> >>> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who
> >>> fairly effectively demonstrated that the only real and
> >>> effective change we can make is to ourselves.
> >>>
> >>> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
> >>> Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).
> >>
> >> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into
> >> yet another round of personal attacks by her on me.
> >
> > Arny turned a conversation where I was AGREEING with him
> > into criticism of me.
>
> Not before you started with your latest round of personal attacks on me.

Incorrect. Look at the record. I posted nothing resembling an "attack"
until you started with the "straw man argument!" whine.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>
> >>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being optimistic
> >>> about change in Arny's behavior, and therefore about the
> >>> nature of this group. A fool's chase, no doubt.
> >>
> >> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
> >
> > Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I am
> > using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what Arny quoted
> > above? Anyone?
> >
> >>
> >> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me.
> >> Again.
> >
> > LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
> > smokescreen". Again.
>
> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of mindless thrashing,
> I'm hardly a victim.

1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.
2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said to MusicHaterBorg:

> Thanks for admitting that you don't understand the music profession.

It is well documented, even a truism, that the Krooborg believes music is
an inferior way to use an audio system. Test tones and pink noise are much
superior for Krooger's purposes. Therefore the entire concept of "the
music profession" is a strawborg. Thanks Jene for admitting Jen that you
are unable Jnen to debate Jennn without making personal attacks Jnee.








--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being
>>>>> optimistic about change in Arny's behavior, and
>>>>> therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
>>>>> chase, no doubt.
>>>>
>>>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
>>>
>>> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I am
>>> using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what Arny quoted
>>> above? Anyone?
>>>
>>>>
>>>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me.
>>>> Again.
>>>
>>> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
>>> smokescreen". Again.
>>
>> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim.

> 1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.

If you waited this long for it, that just shows how poorly informed you are,
Jenn.

> 2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.

Just the facts, Maam.

[Jenn]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being
> >>>>> optimistic about change in Arny's behavior, and
> >>>>> therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
> >>>>> chase, no doubt.
> >>>>
> >>>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
> >>>
> >>> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I am
> >>> using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what Arny quoted
> >>> above? Anyone?
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me.
> >>>> Again.
> >>>
> >>> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
> >>> smokescreen". Again.
> >>
> >> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
> >> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim.
>
> > 1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.
>
> If you waited this long for it, that just shows how poorly informed you are,
> Jenn.

True. I should have realized how manipulative you are earlier.

>
> > 2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.
>
> Just the facts, Maam.

Correct. You're playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim" card... again.

[MINe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >
> >>
> >> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
> >> undending series of junior colleges that want to affect
> >> a resident conductor. Easy way to score points for
> >> political correctness, without polluting the core
> >> program.
>
> > Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
> > end up at Oakland U.
>
> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in residence, that seems
> unlikely.
>
> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
>
> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as the summer home of
> the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an acoustically superb venue for orchestral
> concerts. The Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start of all
> concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."


I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band program, especially
during the school year.

Stephen

[MINe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > (paul packer) wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> . ..
> >>>>
> >>>> Not before you started with your latest round of
> >>>> personal attacks on me.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> "Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
> >>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim." Arny
> >>> Krueger, one minute ago!
> >>
> >> Don't quote Arny to himself, Art. Play fair!
> >
> > If Jenn hadn't replied at all, then he'd be the victim!
>
> See Stephen, I've now trolled even the greatest of all - you!

Thanks!

When does the cock crow for the third time?

Stephen

[fogdog]

wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

>>
>>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

>>>>
>>>>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>>>
>>>>>>No you haven't, Art. I've never posted any pictures of
>>>>>>my basement, partially because I've never had any audio
>>>>>>gear there. Furthermore, the picture(s) that you may
>>>>>>have seen were of area(s) that ceased to exist when I
>>>>>>remodeled my house.
>>>>
>>>>>KROOLOGIC!
>>>>
>>>>No, just another example of Art's inability to follow a
>>>>simple linear discussion.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Ok, I get it, the ABX fairy posted the picture of
>>>your basement.
>>
>>Delusions of non-existent picture of my basement noted.
>
>
> Once again Arny-have you nothing better to do with your time?
>
>
> If one wanted to demonstrate how far
> the RAO strayed from its original purpose one
> only needs to quote from this thread.
> Someone wanted an opinion about
> durability of cds. Hundred messages later -if
> he' lasts that long he will relive all the
> back-stabbbing,animosities, smouldering grudges
> going on for ever and a bit.
I'm gonna have to agree with yah here; I quit paying attention to this
thread once the relevancy to the original topic was lost.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> In article >,
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being
>>>>>>> optimistic about change in Arny's behavior, and
>>>>>>> therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
>>>>>>> chase, no doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I
>>>>> am using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what Arny
>>>>> quoted above? Anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me.
>>>>>> Again.
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
>>>>> smokescreen". Again.
>>>>
>>>> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
>>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim.
>>
>>> 1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.
>>
>> If you waited this long for it, that just shows how
>> poorly informed you are, Jenn.
>
> True. I should have realized how manipulative you are
> earlier.
>
>>
>>> 2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.
>>
>> Just the facts, Maam.
>
> Correct. You're playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim"
> card... again.

Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.

[Arny Krueger]

"MINe 109" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article >,
>>> (paul packer) wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not before you started with your latest round of
>>>>>> personal attacks on me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
>>>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim." Arny
>>>>> Krueger, one minute ago!
>>>>
>>>> Don't quote Arny to himself, Art. Play fair!
>>>
>>> If Jenn hadn't replied at all, then he'd be the victim!
>>
>> See Stephen, I've now trolled even the greatest of all -
>> you!
>
> Thanks!
>
> When does the cock crow for the third time?

You obviously have a very bad grasp of well-known facts in history, Stephen.

The answer is: About 2,000 years ago.

[Arny Krueger]

"MINe 109" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
>>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
>>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
>>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
>>>> program.
>>
>>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
>>> end up at Oakland U.
>>
>> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
>> residence, that seems unlikely.
>>
>> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
>>
>> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
>> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
>> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
>> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
>> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."
>
>
> I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
> program, especially during the school year.

I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified as no more than a
band director.

[Jenn]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article >,
> >>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being
> >>>>>>> optimistic about change in Arny's behavior, and
> >>>>>>> therefore about the nature of this group. A fool's
> >>>>>>> chase, no doubt.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where I
> >>>>> am using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what Arny
> >>>>> quoted above? Anyone?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on me.
> >>>>>> Again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
> >>>>> smokescreen". Again.
> >>>>
> >>>> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
> >>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim.
> >>
> >>> 1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.
> >>
> >> If you waited this long for it, that just shows how
> >> poorly informed you are, Jenn.
> >
> > True. I should have realized how manipulative you are
> > earlier.
> >
> >>
> >>> 2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.
> >>
> >> Just the facts, Maam.
> >
> > Correct. You're playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim"
> > card... again.
>
> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn -

I see. That's what you were doing when you wrote, "She's the one who
started the personal attacks on me." No, that's playing the "Oh poor
me, I'm a victim" card, as I stated.

>she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
> else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.

False premise, as no one is nominating me for sainthood. Most people
here do, however, recognize that it is you who starts the lion's share
of arguments here.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> oups.com
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >, "Arny
>>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article >,
>>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being
>>>>>>>>> optimistic about change in Arny's behavior, and
>>>>>>>>> therefore about the nature of this group. A
>>>>>>>>> fool's chase, no doubt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where
>>>>>>> I am using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what
>>>>>>> Arny quoted above? Anyone?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on
>>>>>>>> me. Again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
>>>>>>> smokescreen". Again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
>>>>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim.
>>>>
>>>>> 1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.
>>>>
>>>> If you waited this long for it, that just shows how
>>>> poorly informed you are, Jenn.
>>>
>>> True. I should have realized how manipulative you are
>>> earlier.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.
>>>>
>>>> Just the facts, Maam.
>>>
>>> Correct. You're playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim"
>>> card... again.
>>
>> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn -
>
> I see.

I doubt it.

> That's what you were doing when you wrote, "She's
> the one who started the personal attacks on me."

Right.

> No, that's playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim" card, as I
> stated.

Prove it.

>> she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
>> else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for
>> sainthood.

> False premise, as no one is nominating me for sainthood.

Inability to decode a figure of speech noted.

> Most people here do, however, recognize that it is you
> who starts the lion's share of arguments here.

That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and Sackman argue with a
very high percentage of all the posts I make here, no matter what I say.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> >she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
> > else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.

> False premise, as no one is nominating me for sainthood. Most people
> here do, however, recognize that it is you who starts the lion's share
> of arguments here.

It's OK to let loose at the Krooborg just once. He deserves it many times
over.





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[MINe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article >,
> >>> (paul packer) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 07:46:19 -0400, "Clyde Slick"
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>> . ..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not before you started with your latest round of
> >>>>>> personal attacks on me.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
> >>>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim." Arny
> >>>>> Krueger, one minute ago!
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't quote Arny to himself, Art. Play fair!
> >>>
> >>> If Jenn hadn't replied at all, then he'd be the victim!
> >>
> >> See Stephen, I've now trolled even the greatest of all -
> >> you!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > When does the cock crow for the third time?
>
> You obviously have a very bad grasp of well-known facts in history, Stephen.
>
> The answer is: About 2,000 years ago.

No, I was speaking metaphorically.

Stephen

[MINe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> . ..
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
> >>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
> >>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
> >>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
> >>>> program.
> >>
> >>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
> >>> end up at Oakland U.
> >>
> >> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
> >> residence, that seems unlikely.
> >>
> >> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
> >>
> >> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
> >> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
> >> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
> >> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
> >> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."
> >
> >
> > I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
> > program, especially during the school year.
>
> I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified as no more than a
> band director.

There's nothing wrong with being a band director: a conductor can lead
any kind of group with the proper preparation.

Stephen

[Arny Krueger]

"MINe 109" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> . ..
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
>>>>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
>>>>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
>>>>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
>>>>>> program.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
>>>>> end up at Oakland U.
>>>>
>>>> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
>>>> residence, that seems unlikely.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
>>>>
>>>> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
>>>> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
>>>> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
>>>> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
>>>> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."
>>>
>>>
>>> I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
>>> program, especially during the school year.
>>
>> I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified
>> as no more than a band director.
>
> There's nothing wrong with being a band director: a
> conductor can lead any kind of group with the proper
> preparation.

There's nothing wrong with any form of honest work, right?

[Jenn]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> . ..
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
> >>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
> >>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
> >>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
> >>>> program.
> >>
> >>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
> >>> end up at Oakland U.
> >>
> >> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
> >> residence, that seems unlikely.
> >>
> >> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
> >>
> >> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
> >> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
> >> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
> >> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
> >> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."
> >
> >
> > I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
> > program, especially during the school year.
>
> I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified as no more than a
> band director.

LOL. Arny, you need some "schoolin'"

First of all, your last sentence above makes absolutely NO sense in the
context of the conversation. You have, once again, gone out of your
way to lamely attempt a put down. Band conductors are among the very
finest conductors working in the business. If you had been fortunate
enough to have met Frederick Fennell (principally known as a "band
conductor") you would know that he was one of a small handfull of great
American born and trained conductors. You've probably known a
conductor as fine as H. Robert Reynolds, Jerry Judkin, Donald
Hunsberger, Frank Battisti, Craig Kirchoff and others who work in the
band profession. You've never been asked to record ensembles as fine
as the ones they regularly conduct, and you never will.

Secondly, I've conducted plenty of orchestras, thank you... The USC
Symphony, The Eastman Philharmonia, The LA Chamber Orchestra, The High
Desert (CA) Symphony, The Saddleback Symphony, The Pacific Symphony,
the Spokane Youth Symphony, the SF Symphony Youth Orchestra (the second
best orchestra, out of a dozen or so, in SF), on and on... this
Saturday I'll do Dvorak New World and Beethoven 7 in Long Beach with
what is probably the best community orchestra in the state.

Lastly, you invoke the "junior college" label as if that's some kind of
put down. I have choosen to make the educational part of my career in
the two-year colleges for very simple and legit reasons: 1. I never
did a doctorate degree. Instead, I studied and traveled with a
world-class conductor. That was the most educational thing that I
could do and I'm damned lucky to have had that opportunity, but it gets
you no degree. And in these times, it's just about impossible to have
a job at a major university without a doctorate. Literally, Leonard
Bernstein couldn't be tenured in the UC or Cal State University systems
because he didn't have a doctorate. 2. At a four-year school, one has
to specialize in order to succeed. My interests in music are more
broad than that allows. For example, I get to play guitar for Peter
Paul and Mary a couple of times a year, and playing that instrument and
that music would be greatly frowned upon the music department at a
major university. But it's part of my music making that I don't want
to give up. The community colleges VALUE this type of broad approach,
and they reward good teaching. It also pays pretty well. I'm proud to
be associated with a commuity college.

Your ignorance of the music business is noted. While you are recording
your church choir while they sing "Coming to Jesus" in whole notes, you
should be proud that you are able to do it. It's a noble avocation.
I'm sure that your recordings are quite good. But do yourself a favor
and stop pretending that you know anything about music or the business
of music.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>
>>> Not before you started with your latest round of
>>> personal attacks on me.
>
>> "Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim." Arny Krueger,
>> one minute ago!
>
> So Art does me the honor of calling me the most powerful person on RAO.
>


I didn't call you anything, I merely quoted you.

> "Arny made me do it" justifies any possible act.
>

..The possible act being that I quoted you

> Thanks Art!

My pleasure!



--
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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>> "Harry Lavo" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>>>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>>>>> of the discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry, it's called star power.
>>>>>
>>>>> One reason why I was on the podium at the HE2005 debate
>>>>> and you were out in the audience trying to hijack it.
>>>
>>>> Too bad, you didn't have enough star power
>>>> to command an entourage.
>>>
>>> Huh?
>>>
>>>> Where was Tommi and Mikey?
>>>
>>> Ask them.
>>>
>>>> Who held your satellite dish in place and replenished
>>>> your peanuts?
>>>
>>> Just goes to show that Art doesn't know what having a
>>> Comcast email address implies about satellite dishes.
>>>
>>
>> is it treu that you paid Bobby $7,000 to shoot you in the
>> ass?
>
> Nothing is treu.
>
> Who is Bobby?
>

Its been a couple of Soprano's references, from last night.
Take a look, its repeating on HBO on Demand, on Comcast.



--
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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>
>>> Far more effective, to say the least. I've trolled more
>>> than 1,000 personal attacks with a single post.
>
>> AND PROUD OF IT!!!!!!
>
> Thanks for admitting that you are so envious of me, Art.
>
>


Thanks for admitting that you are a blithering idiot.



--
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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
> else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.


Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you kiddie porn email?



--
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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>
>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>

>>>
>>> See Stephen, I've now trolled even the greatest of all -
>>> you!
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> When does the cock crow for the third time?
>
> You obviously have a very bad grasp of well-known facts in history,
> Stephen.
>
> The answer is: About 2,000 years ago.
>

JC was a troll?



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Most people here do, however, recognize that it is you
>> who starts the lion's share of arguments here.
>
> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and Sackman argue with
> a very high percentage of all the posts I make here, no matter what I say.
>


"At least' we know not to agree with you, a la Jenn.



--
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[MINe 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>> . ..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
> >>>>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
> >>>>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
> >>>>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
> >>>>>> program.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
> >>>>> end up at Oakland U.
> >>>>
> >>>> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
> >>>> residence, that seems unlikely.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
> >>>>
> >>>> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
> >>>> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
> >>>> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
> >>>> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
> >>>> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
> >>> program, especially during the school year.
> >>
> >> I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified
> >> as no more than a band director.
> >
> > There's nothing wrong with being a band director: a
> > conductor can lead any kind of group with the proper
> > preparation.
>
> There's nothing wrong with any form of honest work, right?

Specifically, there's nothing about "band" or "community college" or
"resident" that makes one less of a director.

Stephen

[Jenn]

Clyde Slick wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
> >
> > Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
> > else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.
>
>
> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you kiddie porn email?

I confess.

[paul packer]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:57:56 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>> The fault is largely yours Arny.

>Not at all. I simply asked a question and Jenn went ballistic rather than
>give a cogent reply.

I'd like all those (besides Arny) who've observed Jenn going ballistic
to raise their hands. C'mon, there must be one.

Sorry, Arnie. You're alone again.

>> You've been seeing any disagreement with your
>> views as a personal hostility issue.
>
>So Ludo, you think that Jenn's personal attacks on me aren't a result of
>back-stabbbing,animosities, smouldering grudges that dominate this place?

Yes, that's what he thinks. That's what I think. That's what everyone
thinks who doesn't have a severe persecution complex. Now what do you
think, Arnie?

>> I guess it is hopeless to try to make
>> you see that one can meet a friend again and
>> again to have an interesting argument.
>
>Been there done that many times. Just not on RAO lately.
>
>>I know
>> that you'll list me amongst your foes for saying
>> this but your attitude to disagreement is morbid
>> and potentially dangerous.
>
>Ludo, to be a credible foe, a person would have to be effective. Don't fool
>yourself!

Arnie, you're talking in oppositional tones again while someone holds
out the olive branch. Get hold of yourself.

>> Stalin and Mao never forgot a grudge.
>
>
>Neither have Middius, Sackman, Ludovic, or the rest of the usual RAO trolls.

They don't have a grudge. They just like stirring you because you're
such a great subject for stirring. It's because you have a persecution
complex.

>>Thankfully
>> not everyone with that trait gets
>> powers beyond voicing and writing to act out his
>> paranoia.
>
>In English?
>
>>You have much to contribute.

>Not only that Ludo, I continue to contribute it. No matter how you spin it
>Ludo, I still contribute more factual on-topic posts to RAO than anybody
>else.

As to the values of resistor R6 and capacitor C14, yes. Your "facts"
with regard to other RAO contributors are in orbit.

>> In the
>> past when I asked for your help on a technical
>> issue you gave it skilfully and generously.
>
>I still would, if you weren't so busy pilng onto yet another attack Arny
>thread.

Persecution complex....persecution complex....

>> Paul Packer, Harry Lavo, myself are not your
>> enemies.
>
>Unlike you Ludo, I can't read their minds. However, the evidence at hand
>suggests that they still get their rocks off by attacking me.

You see, Arnie, Ludo is not reading our minds but our posts. That's to
say, he's reading what we actually write, as opposed to the attacks
you read into our posts. One of the salient symptoms of personality
disorder is the inability to read people's intentions, to perceive
where they stand in relation to you---friend or foe or neither. See
the pattern?

>>We just have different viewing angle
>> from yours on some subjects.
>
>Remind me again where we agree Ludo?
>
>> As for Jenn RAO is fortunate to
>> hear a professional musician interested in audio.
>
>If Jenn could stick to that it might be a good thing. However, her goal is
>to lord it over us because of her elevated position in life (at least in her
>eyes).

Ah, now we strike a chord of truth. This is a recurring pattern with
you, Arnie, this jealousy of those who've attained some success in
life. You're combative with everybody except those who agree with you,
but you save your hardest blows for those enjoying prominent
success---Jenn and John Atkinson being the two most obvious here. This
is not a good trait, Arnie. It gives George credibility with regard to
you, and I'm sure you don't want that.

>> Most consider it toys for kids who do not
>> understand what real music sounds like, We
>> should value her as a resource.
>
>Resource of what, denigration of one's preferences for accurate
>reproduction?

Nonsense sentence noted.

>> She reports what
>> she hears not what she expects to hear after
>> reading the measurements and what she hears is
>> significant.
>
>Ludo, anybody who thinks that one's expectations can't profoundly affect
>their perceptions, even if they are the goddess Jenn, is ahem
>poorly-informed.

"The goddess Jenn". Very revealing statement, Arnie.

>> Her living depends on it.
>
>Nope.
>
>Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an undending series of
>junior colleges that want to affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score
>points for political correctness, without polluting the core program.

Another meaningless denigration, based on no knowledge whatsoever.

[paul packer]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:34:14 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Jenn" > wrote in message

>> In article >,
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>
>>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>> news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10
>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which this
>>>>>> entire forum facilitates: it makes him the centerpiece
>>>>>> of the discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you can
>>>> change to effect it...it is yourself and what you do.
>>>>
>>>> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who
>>>> fairly effectively demonstrated that the only real and
>>>> effective change we can make is to ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
>>>> Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).
>>>
>>> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into
>>> yet another round of personal attacks by her on me.
>>
>> Arny turned a conversation where I was AGREEING with him
>> into criticism of me.
>
>Not before you started with your latest round of personal attacks on me.

Persecution complex.....persecution complex.....

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:34:14 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>>>> news:0IVXf.4651$C85.4330@dukeread10
>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, but he has also achieved another goal which
>>>>>>> this entire forum facilitates: it makes him the
>>>>>>> centerpiece of the discussion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you don't like this...there is but one thing you
>>>>> can change to effect it...it is yourself and what you
>>>>> do.
>>>>>
>>>>> I spent a half day in an HR seminar with a guy who
>>>>> fairly effectively demonstrated that the only real and
>>>>> effective change we can make is to ourselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> So what are you doing to contribute to this situation?
>>>>> Quite a bit IMO (and this is no defense of Arny).
>>>>
>>>> Exactly. Jenn turned a debate of technical issues into
>>>> yet another round of personal attacks by her on me.
>>>
>>> Arny turned a conversation where I was AGREEING with him
>>> into criticism of me.
>>
>> Not before you started with your latest round of
>> personal attacks on me.
>
> Persecution complex.....persecution complex.....

Got one?

Given all of your personal attacks against me Paul, I was quite sure that
you had one.

Thanks for confirming it!

[Jenn]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com
> >>> Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> In article
> >>>>> >, "Arny
> >>>>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In article >,
> >>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Point taken in good spirit. I admit to being
> >>>>>>>>> optimistic about change in Arny's behavior, and
> >>>>>>>>> therefore about the nature of this group. A
> >>>>>>>>> fool's chase, no doubt.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The usual Jenn "I'm a victim" smoke screen.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Can ANYONE, including supporters of Arny, see where
> >>>>>>> I am using an "I'm a victim smokescreen" in what
> >>>>>>> Arny quoted above? Anyone?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> She's the one who started the personal attacks on
> >>>>>>>> me. Again.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> LOL Oh look. Arny, using the "I'm a victim
> >>>>>>> smokescreen". Again.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Given that I manipulated you into your current fit of
> >>>>>> mindless thrashing, I'm hardly a victim.
> >>>>
> >>>>> 1. Thanks for admitting that you are manipulative.
> >>>>
> >>>> If you waited this long for it, that just shows how
> >>>> poorly informed you are, Jenn.
> >>>
> >>> True. I should have realized how manipulative you are
> >>> earlier.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> 2. Look three paragraphs up for your whining.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just the facts, Maam.
> >>>
> >>> Correct. You're playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim"
> >>> card... again.
> >>
> >> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn -
> >
> > I see.
>
> I doubt it.
>
> > That's what you were doing when you wrote, "She's
> > the one who started the personal attacks on me."
>
> Right.
>
> > No, that's playing the "Oh poor me, I'm a victim" card, as I
> > stated.
>
> Prove it.

Do you really want to start with that tactic?

>
> >> she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
> >> else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for
> >> sainthood.
>
> > False premise, as no one is nominating me for sainthood.
>
> Inability to decode a figure of speech noted.

Arny's belief that anyone who agrees with me is "nominating me for
sainthood" noted.

>
> > Most people here do, however, recognize that it is you
> > who starts the lion's share of arguments here.
>
> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and Sackman argue with a
> very high percentage of all the posts I make here, no matter what I say.

Pot, meet kettle.

[paul packer]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:26:07 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"paul packer" > wrote in message

>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:05:38 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
>>> channel for sound quality.
>
>> You're kidding, aren't you, Arnie?
>
>There's really no need for me to answer this question because, in the
>following sentence, you prove conclusively that you can't read and
>comprehend even relatively simple sentences:
>
>> You must be the only
>> person since 1983 who seriously claims that CD is
>> everything it could have been.
>
>Most would say that the CD is far more than it was expected to be. For one
>thing it blew the LP of the market far more quickly than expected. Not only
>that, the CD also blew the following "improved" formats off the market:
>
>HDCD
>SACD
>DVD_A
>CD with green pen, as recommended by numerious high end audio "authorities".
>CD with Armor-All protectorant, as recommended by Stereophile

So your version of the medium exceeding expectations is that it's
enjoyed commercial success? And sound quality?

[paul packer]

On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn" > wrote:

>
>Clyde Slick wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>> >
>> > Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
>> > else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.
>>
>>
>> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you kiddie porn email?
>
>I confess.

Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very literal. Arnie
does not interpret humour well.

[Jenn]

paul packer wrote:
> On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn" > wrote:
>
> >
> >Clyde Slick wrote:
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> . ..
> >> >
> >> > Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter and nasty as everybody
> >> > else, no matter who here wants to nominate her for sainthood.
> >>
> >>
> >> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you kiddie porn email?
> >
> >I confess.
>
> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very literal. Arnie
> does not interpret humour well.

Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the tip.

[George M. Middius]

The Big **** fails to wipe himself again.

> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and Sackman argue with a
> very high percentage of all the posts I make here, no matter what I say.

That is a lie, you disgusting pile of ****. I don't "argue" with you or
what you say. It's pointless to do that because you never admit you're
wrong. What I do is highlight your ****fulness. I like to think I'm
creative about it, and the continuing stream of compliments I receive for
my humorous lampoons of your ****ful self tell me I am.

No, what you're confused about is who does the arguing. Stephen argues
with you, as does John, and Jenn. I think the rest of us have all given it
up because of the futility. Oh, let's not forget the third most frequent
arguer-with-Krooger -- that would be you. We've caught you attempting to
pick a fight with yourself dozens of times.



--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Clyde Slick]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com...


(to Arny)
> You've never been asked to record ensembles as fine
> as the ones they regularly conduct, and you never will.
>

OUCH!!!!!


> Secondly, I've conducted plenty of orchestras, thank you... The USC
> Symphony, The Eastman Philharmonia, The LA Chamber Orchestra, The High
> Desert (CA) Symphony, The Saddleback Symphony, The Pacific Symphony,
> the Spokane Youth Symphony, the SF Symphony Youth Orchestra (the second
> best orchestra, out of a dozen or so, in SF), on and on... this
> Saturday I'll do Dvorak New World and Beethoven 7 in Long Beach with
> what is probably the best community orchestra in the state.
>
> Lastly, you invoke the "junior college" label as if that's some kind of
> put down. I have choosen to make the educational part of my career in
> the two-year colleges for very simple and legit reasons: 1. I never
> did a doctorate degree. Instead, I studied and traveled with a
> world-class conductor. That was the most educational thing that I
> could do and I'm damned lucky to have had that opportunity, but it gets
> you no degree. And in these times, it's just about impossible to have
> a job at a major university without a doctorate. Literally, Leonard
> Bernstein couldn't be tenured in the UC or Cal State University systems
> because he didn't have a doctorate. 2. At a four-year school, one has
> to specialize in order to succeed. My interests in music are more
> broad than that allows. For example, I get to play guitar for Peter
> Paul and Mary a couple of times a year, and playing that instrument and
> that music would be greatly frowned upon the music department at a
> major university. But it's part of my music making that I don't want
> to give up. The community colleges VALUE this type of broad approach,
> and they reward good teaching. It also pays pretty well. I'm proud to
> be associated with a commuity college.
>
> Your ignorance of the music business is noted. While you are recording
> your church choir while they sing "Coming to Jesus" in whole notes, you
> should be proud that you are able to do it. It's a noble avocation.
> I'm sure that your recordings are quite good. But do yourself a favor
> and stop pretending that you know anything about music or the business
> of music.
>

But, but, but, but, what about Arny's Omni ashtray?



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[Clyde Slick]

"MINe 109" > wrote in message
...
>
> Specifically, there's nothing about "band" or "community college" or
> "resident" that makes one less of a director.
>

What about Arny's neighborhood boys down in his basement,
the infamous training sessions, don't they count?



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[paul packer]

On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:51:09 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>> Persecution complex.....persecution complex.....
>
>Got one?
>
>Given all of your personal attacks against me Paul, I was quite sure that
>you had one.
>
>Thanks for confirming it!

Psychology 101, Arnie. A persecution complex doesn't cause you to
persecute others but to believe you're the one being persecuted. Duh!

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
ups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and
>> Sackman argue with a very high percentage of all the
>> posts I make here, no matter what I say.

> Pot, meet kettle.

Inability to count posts and calculate ratios noted.

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message

> The Big **** fails to wipe himself again.
>
>> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and
>> Sackman argue with a very high percentage of all the
>> posts I make here, no matter what I say.

> I don't
> "argue" with you or what you say. It's pointless to do
> that because you never admit you're wrong.

When is the last time you admitted that you are wrong, Middius?

I believe that dinosaurs walked the earth at that time.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> Clyde Slick wrote:
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>>
>>>> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter
>>>> and nasty as everybody else, no matter who here wants
>>>> to nominate her for sainthood.
>>>
>>>
>>> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you
>>> kiddie porn email?
>>
>> I confess.
>
> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.

It's not my fault Paul that your idea of humor is just way to lame.

Besides Paul, most of your responses to me are personal attacks like this
one.

I'm supposed think that they are funny?

LOL!

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com
> paul packer wrote:
>> On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Clyde Slick wrote:
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>>
>>>>> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter
>>>>> and nasty as everybody else, no matter who here wants
>>>>> to nominate her for sainthood.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you
>>>> kiddie porn email?
>>>
>>> I confess.
>>
>> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
>> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
>
> Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the tip.

Pity party noted.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:51:09 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>> Persecution complex.....persecution complex.....
>>
>> Got one?
>>
>> Given all of your personal attacks against me Paul, I
>> was quite sure that you had one.
>>
>> Thanks for confirming it!
>
> Psychology 101, Arnie. A persecution complex doesn't
> cause you to persecute others but to believe you're the
> one being persecuted. Duh!

Wrong Paul - you've claimed all along that all of your personal attacks on
me are justified because in essence, I persecute you.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>
>>>> Far more effective, to say the least. I've trolled more
>>>> than 1,000 personal attacks with a single post.
>>
>>> AND PROUD OF IT!!!!!!
>>
>> Thanks for admitting that you are so envious of me, Art.
>>
>>
>
>
> Thanks for admitting that you are a blithering idiot.

Thanks Art for admitting that you are envious of blithering idiots, no doubt
on the grounds that they are still smarter than you are.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:26:07 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2006 23:05:38 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> IOW, the CD format is just a subjectively perfect
>>>> channel for sound quality.
>>
>>> You're kidding, aren't you, Arnie?
>>
>> There's really no need for me to answer this question
>> because, in the following sentence, you prove
>> conclusively that you can't read and comprehend even
>> relatively simple sentences:
>>
>>> You must be the only
>>> person since 1983 who seriously claims that CD is
>>> everything it could have been.
>>
>> Most would say that the CD is far more than it was
>> expected to be. For one thing it blew the LP of the
>> market far more quickly than expected. Not only that,
>> the CD also blew the following "improved" formats off
>> the market:
>>
>> HDCD
>> SACD
>> DVD_A
>> CD with green pen, as recommended by numerious high end
>> audio "authorities". CD with Armor-All protectorant, as
>> recommended by Stereophile

> So your version of the medium exceeding expectations is
> that it's enjoyed commercial success?

Inability to understand the phrase "for one thing". noted.

>And sound quality?

Hee's a news flash for you Paul - sound quality would be "for another
thing".

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
>>
>>> In article
>>> >, "Arny
>>> Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> . ..
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
>>>>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
>>>>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
>>>>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
>>>>>> program.
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
>>>>> end up at Oakland U.
>>>>
>>>> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
>>>> residence, that seems unlikely.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
>>>>
>>>> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
>>>> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
>>>> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
>>>> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
>>>> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."

>>> I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
>>> program, especially during the school year.

>> I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified
>> as no more than a band director.

> LOL. Arny, you need some "schoolin'"

Inablity to detect humor noted.

> First of all, your last sentence above makes absolutely
> NO sense in the context of the conversation.

Then why did so many people get it?

> You have, once again, gone out of your way to lamely attempt a put
> down.

Given the defensive reaction, I'd say it was a direct hit.

> Band conductors are among the very finest
> conductors working in the business. If you had been
> fortunate enough to have met Frederick Fennell
> (principally known as a "band conductor") you would know
> that he was one of a small handfull of great American
> born and trained conductors.

Gosh Jenn, you drop names so good! Can I grow up to be like you? Can I? Can
I?

> You've probably known a
> conductor as fine as H. Robert Reynolds, Jerry Judkin,
> Donald Hunsberger, Frank Battisti, Craig Kirchoff and
> others who work in the band profession. You've never
> been asked to record ensembles as fine as the ones they
> regularly conduct, and you never will.

BTW Jenn, I measure defensive reactions by the word. Extra points for name
dropping and general pompous attitude.

> Secondly, I've conducted plenty of orchestras, thank
> you... The USC Symphony,

A name so popular that there is more than one nationally-known group working
under that name.

I'm sure you didn't mean this one: http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/orchestra/

LOL!

Probably at some workshop...

>The Eastman Philharmonia, The LA
> Chamber Orchestra, The High Desert (CA) Symphony, The
> Saddleback Symphony, The Pacific Symphony, the Spokane
> Youth Symphony, the SF Symphony Youth Orchestra (the
> second best orchestra, out of a dozen or so, in SF), on
> and on... this Saturday I'll do Dvorak New World and
> Beethoven 7 in Long Beach with what is probably the best
> community orchestra in the state.

So what? These are not even second string orchestras - mostly associated
with education.

> Lastly, you invoke the "junior college" label as if
> that's some kind of put down.

Jenn I picked that up from your buddies George and Art. BTW, did George and
Art even attend a junior college at any point in their lives? Ask them, and
watch them squirm!

> I have choosen to make the
> educational part of my career in the two-year colleges
> for very simple and legit reasons: 1. I never did a
> doctorate degree. Instead, I studied and traveled with a
> world-class conductor.

OK Jenn, so you're a world-class conductor's traveling companion.

> That was the most educational
> thing that I could do and I'm damned lucky to have had
> that opportunity, but it gets you no degree. And in
> these times, it's just about impossible to have a job at
> a major university without a doctorate. Literally,
> Leonard Bernstein couldn't be tenured in the UC or Cal
> State University systems because he didn't have a
> doctorate. 2. At a four-year school, one has to
> specialize in order to succeed. My interests in music
> are more broad than that allows. For example, I get to
> play guitar for Peter Paul and Mary a couple of times a
> year, and playing that instrument and that music would be
> greatly frowned upon the music department at a major
> university. But it's part of my music making that I
> don't want to give up. The community colleges VALUE this
> type of broad approach, and they reward good teaching.
> It also pays pretty well. I'm proud to be associated
> with a commuity college.

Boy did I get Jenn wound up or what?

> Your ignorance of the music business is noted.

Presumptious little minx aren't you, Jenn?

>While you
> are recording your church choir while they sing "Coming
> to Jesus" in whole notes, you should be proud that you
> are able to do it. It's a noble avocation.

I think you've mixed your metaphors here jenn. You've made a number of
errors here:

(1) I don't just record church choirs.

(2) My church choir can definately sing music that is more complex than that
which is written in just whole notes.

<contemplate the redness of Jenn's face when she is ranting like this>

> I'm sure that
> your recordings are quite good. But do yourself a favor
> and stop pretending that you know anything about music or
> the business of music.

<now folks, was that a total wind-up and score on Jenn or what?>

my day = made.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 05:57:56 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>>> The fault is largely yours Arny.
>
>> Not at all. I simply asked a question and Jenn went
>> ballistic rather than give a cogent reply.
>
> I'd like all those (besides Arny) who've observed Jenn
> going ballistic to raise their hands. C'mon, there must
> be one.

Just shows how blind and biased you are, Paul.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>
>>>>> Far more effective, to say the least. I've trolled more
>>>>> than 1,000 personal attacks with a single post.
>>>
>>>> AND PROUD OF IT!!!!!!
>>>
>>> Thanks for admitting that you are so envious of me, Art.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for admitting that you are a blithering idiot.
>
> Thanks Art for admitting that you are envious of blithering idiots, no
> doubt on the grounds that they are still smarter than you are.
>

I envy your insanity. We ALL do.



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[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > paul packer wrote:
> >> On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Clyde Slick wrote:
> >>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>> . ..
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter
> >>>>> and nasty as everybody else, no matter who here wants
> >>>>> to nominate her for sainthood.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you
> >>>> kiddie porn email?
> >>>
> >>> I confess.
> >>
> >> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
> >> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
> >
> > Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the tip.
>
> Pity party noted.

Since there is no "pity" indicated, you are incorrect. Again.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> ups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> >> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and
> >> Sackman argue with a very high percentage of all the
> >> posts I make here, no matter what I say.
>
> > Pot, meet kettle.
>
> Inability to count posts and calculate ratios noted.

Your statement makes no sense, since there is no calculation needed to
know YOU also argue with a very high percentage of the posts others make
here, no matter what they say.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >> "MINe 109" > wrote in message
> >>
> >>> In article
> >>> >, "Arny
> >>> Krueger" > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>> . ..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Her living seems to depend on her ability to find an
> >>>>>> undending series of junior colleges that want to
> >>>>>> affect a resident conductor. Easy way to score points
> >>>>>> for political correctness, without polluting the core
> >>>>>> program.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Maybe she will hit the real rock bottom and
> >>>>> end up at Oakland U.
> >>>>
> >>>> Given that OU already has the Detroit Symphony in
> >>>> residence, that seems unlikely.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.palacenet.com/prdetail.cfm?category=8&pressreleaseID=2480
> >>>>
> >>>> "Founded in 1964 on the campus of Oakland University as
> >>>> the summer home of the DSO, Meadow Brook offers an
> >>>> acoustically superb venue for orchestral concerts. The
> >>>> Meadow Brook grounds open 90 minutes prior to the start
> >>>> of all concerts for picnics and early lawn seating."
>
> >>> I think you'll find this doesn't preempt the band
> >>> program, especially during the school year.
>
> >> I guess this means that you think that Jenn is qualified
> >> as no more than a band director.
>
> > LOL. Arny, you need some "schoolin'"
>
> Inablity to detect humor noted.

Can anyone else point out the alleged "humor"?

>
> > First of all, your last sentence above makes absolutely
> > NO sense in the context of the conversation.
>
> Then why did so many people get it?

Because they have learned over time to figure out your unusual use of
logic. Any normal person can see that "I think you'll find this doesn't
preempt the band
program, especially during the school year" and "I guess this means that
you think that Jenn is qualified as no more than a band director" are
totally unrelated concepts.

>
> > You have, once again, gone out of your way to lamely attempt a put
> > down.
>
> Given the defensive reaction, I'd say it was a direct hit.

I've shown that it's a lame attempt at a put down.

>
> > Band conductors are among the very finest
> > conductors working in the business. If you had been
> > fortunate enough to have met Frederick Fennell
> > (principally known as a "band conductor") you would know
> > that he was one of a small handfull of great American
> > born and trained conductors.
>
> Gosh Jenn, you drop names so good! Can I grow up to be like you? Can I? Can
> I?

LOL That's not name dropping. YOU questioned my work and
qualifications. YOU attempted, lamely, to use the profession of band
conducting as a put down. I'm simply presenting evidence to show how
ignorant you are on the subject. That's what happens in a debate. And
the answer to your question is, no, probably not.

>
> > You've probably never known a
> > conductor as fine as H. Robert Reynolds, Jerry Judkin,
> > Donald Hunsberger, Frank Battisti, Craig Kirchoff and
> > others who work in the band profession. You've never
> > been asked to record ensembles as fine as the ones they
> > regularly conduct, and you never will.
>
> BTW Jenn, I measure defensive reactions by the word. Extra points for name
> dropping and general pompous attitude.

It's not name dropping. Don't you understand that? If someone were to
say to you that blind testing is worthless, you might present the names
of well known scientists who believe otherwise. It's called "presenting
evidence." Also, unfounded name calling is noted.

>
> > Secondly, I've conducted plenty of orchestras, thank
> > you... The USC Symphony,
>
> A name so popular that there is more than one nationally-known group working
> under that name.
>
> I'm sure you didn't mean this one: http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/orchestra/
>
> LOL!
>
> Probably at some workshop...

Incorrect, but thanks for playing.

If you asked 100 conductors in the country who don't live in SC, "Where
is the USC Symphony" just about all of them would tell you the
University of Southern California. After Julliard, they are the best
college orchestra in the world.

>
> >The Eastman Philharmonia, The LA
> > Chamber Orchestra, The High Desert (CA) Symphony, The
> > Saddleback Symphony, The Pacific Symphony, the Spokane
> > Youth Symphony, the SF Symphony Youth Orchestra (the
> > second best orchestra, out of a dozen or so, in SF), on
> > and on... this Saturday I'll do Dvorak New World and
> > Beethoven 7 in Long Beach with what is probably the best
> > community orchestra in the state.
>
> So what? These are not even second string orchestras - mostly associated
> with education.

LOL Again, lack of knowledge of the music business noted. I'm quite
sure that you've never recorded ensembles as fine as any one of those
that I named.

>
> > Lastly, you invoke the "junior college" label as if
> > that's some kind of put down.
>
> Jenn I picked that up from your buddies George and Art.

Incorrect. WHere did they use working at two year colleges as a put
down?

> BTW, did George and
> Art even attend a junior college at any point in their lives? Ask them, and
> watch them squirm!
>
> > I have choosen to make the
> > educational part of my career in the two-year colleges
> > for very simple and legit reasons: 1. I never did a
> > doctorate degree. Instead, I studied and traveled with a
> > world-class conductor.
>
> OK Jenn, so you're a world-class conductor's traveling companion.

Again, ignorance of the music business noted.

>
> > That was the most educational
> > thing that I could do and I'm damned lucky to have had
> > that opportunity, but it gets you no degree. And in
> > these times, it's just about impossible to have a job at
> > a major university without a doctorate. Literally,
> > Leonard Bernstein couldn't be tenured in the UC or Cal
> > State University systems because he didn't have a
> > doctorate. 2. At a four-year school, one has to
> > specialize in order to succeed. My interests in music
> > are more broad than that allows. For example, I get to
> > play guitar for Peter Paul and Mary a couple of times a
> > year, and playing that instrument and that music would be
> > greatly frowned upon the music department at a major
> > university. But it's part of my music making that I
> > don't want to give up. The community colleges VALUE this
> > type of broad approach, and they reward good teaching.
> > It also pays pretty well. I'm proud to be associated
> > with a commuity college.
>
> Boy did I get Jenn wound up or what?

Avoidance of each point noted.

>
> > Your ignorance of the music business is noted.
>
> Presumptious little minx aren't you, Jenn?

Not at all. You've clearly shown that you're ignorant of the business.

>
> >While you
> > are recording your church choir while they sing "Coming
> > to Jesus" in whole notes, you should be proud that you
> > are able to do it. It's a noble avocation.
>
> I think you've mixed your metaphors here jenn. You've made a number of
> errors here:
>
> (1) I don't just record church choirs.

Cool. Why don't you name some of the ensembles, soloists, etc that
you've been asked to work with?

>
> (2) My church choir can definately sing music that is more complex than that
> which is written in just whole notes.

I'm glad.

>
> <contemplate the redness of Jenn's face when she is ranting like this>

<contemplate the redness of Arny's face as he understands that his lame
attempts at putdowns aren't grounded in reality>

>
> > I'm sure that
> > your recordings are quite good. But do yourself a favor
> > and stop pretending that you know anything about music or
> > the business of music.
>
> <now folks, was that a total wind-up and score on Jenn or what?>

Incorrect, as what I've stated is the truth, and what you've stated
isn't. Some people (you) try to "win" debates. I just tell the truth.
>
> my day = made.

By telling the truth, my life = made.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> oups.com
>>> paul packer wrote:
>>>> On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Clyde Slick wrote:
>>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>>> . ..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter
>>>>>>> and nasty as everybody else, no matter who here
>>>>>>> wants to nominate her for sainthood.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you
>>>>>> kiddie porn email?
>>>>>
>>>>> I confess.
>>>>
>>>> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
>>>> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
>>>
>>> Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the tip.
>>
>> Pity party noted.
>
> Since there is no "pity" indicated, you are incorrect.

Wrong, the self-pity is implied.

> Again.

How Weil-ly of you Jenn. You seem to be soaking up that low-life thing
really well!

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>
> > In article >,
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com
> >>> paul packer wrote:
> >>>> On 3 Apr 2006 15:46:46 -0700, "Jenn"
> >>>> > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Clyde Slick wrote:
> >>>>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >>>>>> . ..
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not at all. I'm playing Jenn - she's just as bitter
> >>>>>>> and nasty as everybody else, no matter who here
> >>>>>>> wants to nominate her for sainthood.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Really? Are you going to accuse her of sending you
> >>>>>> kiddie porn email?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I confess.
> >>>>
> >>>> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
> >>>> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
> >>>
> >>> Yeah, you're right. Thanks for the tip.
> >>
> >> Pity party noted.
> >
> > Since there is no "pity" indicated, you are incorrect.
>
> Wrong, the self-pity is implied.

You're making things up again. No normal person could read this an see
any implied request for or statement of pity.

>
> > Again.
>
> How Weil-ly of you Jenn. You seem to be soaking up that low-life thing
> really well!

Actually, I'm quoting you, as in, "She's the one who started the
personal attacks on me. Again." You know, that "pity party".

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> How Weil-ly of you Jenn. You seem to be soaking up that low-life thing
> really well!
>

Would that be a gratuitous attack against an individual
that is not even participatng in this thread?



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[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> The Big **** fails to wipe himself again.
>
>> That's true because RAO trolls like Scotty, Middius and Sackman argue
>> with a
>> very high percentage of all the posts I make here, no matter what I say.
>
> That is a lie, you disgusting pile of ****. I don't "argue" with you or
> what you say. It's pointless to do that because you never admit you're
> wrong. What I do is highlight your ****fulness. I like to think I'm
> creative about it, and the continuing stream of compliments I receive for
> my humorous lampoons of your ****ful self tell me I am.
>
> No, what you're confused about is who does the arguing. Stephen argues
> with you, as does John, and Jenn. I think the rest of us have all given it
> up because of the futility. Oh, let's not forget the third most frequent
> arguer-with-Krooger -- that would be you. We've caught you attempting to
> pick a fight with yourself dozens of times.
>

And due to his debating trade prowess,
he claims he simultaneously 'won' both sides.



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[paul packer]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:10:26 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>Gosh Jenn, you drop names so good! Can I grow up to be like you? Can I? Can
>I?

Not quite like her, at least without surgery.

[paul packer]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:38:34 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
>> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
>
>It's not my fault Paul that your idea of humor is just way to lame.
>
>Besides Paul, most of your responses to me are personal attacks like this
>one.
>
>I'm supposed think that they are funny?
>
>LOL!

If you thought that was a personal attack, Arnie, I hope I never have
occasion to get stuck into you for real. You'll be shattered for life.

[paul packer]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:39:53 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"paul packer" > wrote in message

>> On Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:51:09 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> Persecution complex.....persecution complex.....
>>>
>>> Got one?
>>>
>>> Given all of your personal attacks against me Paul, I
>>> was quite sure that you had one.
>>>
>>> Thanks for confirming it!
>>
>> Psychology 101, Arnie. A persecution complex doesn't
>> cause you to persecute others but to believe you're the
>> one being persecuted. Duh!
>
>Wrong Paul - you've claimed all along that all of your personal attacks on
>me are justified because in essence, I persecute you.

A little Kroologic goes a long way, eh?

[paul packer]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:43:58 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>>And sound quality?
>
>Hee's a news flash for you Paul - sound quality would be "for another
>thing".

But not a thing to interest you, eh, Arnie?

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> >> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
> >> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.

> >Besides Paul, most of your responses to me are personal attacks like this
> >one.

> If you thought that was a personal attack, Arnie, I hope I never have
> occasion to get stuck into you for real. You'll be shattered for life.

You omitted to mention that Krooger is an A-1 expert in concreteness.





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> >> Psychology 101, Arnie. A persecution complex doesn't
> >> cause you to persecute others but to believe you're the
> >> one being persecuted. Duh!

> >Wrong Paul - you've claimed all along that all of your personal attacks on
> >me are justified because in essence, I persecute you.

> A little Kroologic goes a long way, eh?

Good point to bring out on.™ Similarity between Kroologic and gamma
radiation noted.





--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.

[Clyde Slick]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:38:34 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
>>> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
>>
>>It's not my fault Paul that your idea of humor is just way to lame.
>>
>>Besides Paul, most of your responses to me are personal attacks like this
>>one.
>>
>>I'm supposed think that they are funny?
>>
>>LOL!
>
> If you thought that was a personal attack, Arnie, I hope I never have
> occasion to get stuck into you for real. You'll be shattered for life.
>

Busses are capable of initiating personal attacks



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[paul packer]

On Tue, 04 Apr 2006 20:59:34 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:

>
>
>paul packer said:
>
>> >> Don't joke like that with Arnie, Jenn. Arnie is very
>> >> literal. Arnie does not interpret humour well.
>
>> >Besides Paul, most of your responses to me are personal attacks like this
>> >one.
>
>> If you thought that was a personal attack, Arnie, I hope I never have
>> occasion to get stuck into you for real. You'll be shattered for life.
>
>You omitted to mention that Krooger is an A-1 expert in concreteness.

What are you on about, George? You've retreated into obscureness
again.

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> >> >> Arnie does not interpret humour well.

> >You omitted to mention that Krooger is an A-1 expert in concreteness.

> What are you on about, George? You've retreated into obscureness
> again.

Humor tends toward the figurative.






--
A day without Krooger is like a day without arsenic.