Which among 3 is a better amplifier?

[anToNIcHeN]

Hi,
I am planning to buy a sub woofer mono amp.

The dealer have listed 3 models. But i dont know which one to go for!.

1. JBL CS300.1
2. Lightning Audio B2.250.1
3. Alpine MRD-M301.

Which among these is best and why?.

PS. I have a JBL 1202D Subwoofer.

[Brandonb]

What HU? If Alpine, I'd take the Alpine amp for the Alpine Link which
allows you to control the amp from the HU. It also has the best built-in
audio processing even if you don't have an Alpine HU. The problem I'm
seeing is that that JBL subwoofer is 300W RMS, and can be wired for 4
ohm or 1 ohm (dual 2-ohm VC). All those amps are only 2-ohm stable, not
1-ohm, so unless you want to chance amplifier failure, you'd want to
wire the sub as 4-ohm, which only gets you about 175-200 Watts from the
amps, if even. I'd suggest either a more powerful amp that is 1-ohm
stable, or a different subwoofer. Is this all the brands that dealer
has? are there other dealers available? and do you care about purchasing
online? For the price I'm sure they're charging for those (I'm assuming
near retail price), you can probably get more for less elsewhere.

Brandonb


anToNIcHeN wrote:
> Hi,
> I am planning to buy a sub woofer mono amp.
>
> The dealer have listed 3 models. But i dont know which one to go for!.
>
> 1. JBL CS300.1
> 2. Lightning Audio B2.250.1
> 3. Alpine MRD-M301.
>
> Which among these is best and why?.
>
> PS. I have a JBL 1202D Subwoofer.
>

[MOSFET]

I would second EVERYTHING Brandonb said. Perhaps you should consider a two
channel amp, and then bridge it to one channel. This would extract the
maximum power from a bridged amplifier to drive your 4 ohm sub.

Also, I would avoid Lightning Audio. I have generally not heard positive
things over the years about the quality of Lightning (I know there are
others who will disagree, but this is just my opinion, don't flame me!). I
have owned several Alpine amps over the years and have always been impressed
with their quality. I don't know much about JBL amps, but I have not heard
anything bad about JBL (they make quality speakers, I know that).

MOSFET

"Brandonb" > wrote in message
...
> What HU? If Alpine, I'd take the Alpine amp for the Alpine Link which
> allows you to control the amp from the HU. It also has the best built-in
> audio processing even if you don't have an Alpine HU. The problem I'm
> seeing is that that JBL subwoofer is 300W RMS, and can be wired for 4 ohm
> or 1 ohm (dual 2-ohm VC). All those amps are only 2-ohm stable, not 1-ohm,
> so unless you want to chance amplifier failure, you'd want to wire the sub
> as 4-ohm, which only gets you about 175-200 Watts from the amps, if even.
> I'd suggest either a more powerful amp that is 1-ohm stable, or a
> different subwoofer. Is this all the brands that dealer has? are there
> other dealers available? and do you care about purchasing online? For the
> price I'm sure they're charging for those (I'm assuming near retail
> price), you can probably get more for less elsewhere.
>
> Brandonb
>
>
> anToNIcHeN wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I am planning to buy a sub woofer mono amp.
>>
>> The dealer have listed 3 models. But i dont know which one to go for!.
>>
>> 1. JBL CS300.1
>> 2. Lightning Audio B2.250.1
>> 3. Alpine MRD-M301.
>>
>> Which among these is best and why?. PS. I have a JBL 1202D Subwoofer.
>>

[Brandonb]

Lightning Audio is hit and miss. Its a subsidiary of Rockford Fosgate
(their site says this). And just like RF, their mid and high models are
of good quality and workmanship and will work quite well for most
people, while their entry level stuff (Bolt for Lightning Audio) tends
to leave much to be desired and nearly seems like it'll break if touched
too much. I'm sure it'll put out the power it says, I'm just wary of how
long.

Brandonb


MOSFET wrote:
> I would second EVERYTHING Brandonb said. Perhaps you should consider a two
> channel amp, and then bridge it to one channel. This would extract the
> maximum power from a bridged amplifier to drive your 4 ohm sub.
>
> Also, I would avoid Lightning Audio. I have generally not heard positive
> things over the years about the quality of Lightning (I know there are
> others who will disagree, but this is just my opinion, don't flame me!). I
> have owned several Alpine amps over the years and have always been impressed
> with their quality. I don't know much about JBL amps, but I have not heard
> anything bad about JBL (they make quality speakers, I know that).
>
> MOSFET

[yappari]

if the lightning audio is cheaper, go for it.
i've had loooong term experiance with lightning audio, you can bash the
F&F series, but not the bolt and storm series. Reliablity wise, they're
great too. i had my 250.1 bolt for a year many moons ago. I added the
fan module to it and ran it at 1ohm. not sure how much power it put
out, but i upgraded to a US AMP 150 which should have put out 300wrms
(this is the old school usamp with .006THD, i doubt anyone will doubt
that rating or the quality :D) and i didn't notice the slightest
difference in quality or volume. Even at 1 ohm, it didn't get as hot
as the USamp. Its also been a year since i've sold it to my friend,
haven't heard a peep from him about it.

Now the only real issue with lightning audio amps, and i mean all of
them, is the internal power supply. Its not bad quality or anything,
its just lacking. It might make your lights dim where another
hiquality amp might not. I experianced this with the the strike 1000w.
the 250.1 won't give u any trouble unless your electrical system is on
the verge of death.


--
yappari

[GregS]

In article >, Brandonb > wrote:
>Lightning Audio is hit and miss. Its a subsidiary of Rockford Fosgate
>(their site says this). And just like RF, their mid and high models are
>of good quality and workmanship and will work quite well for most
>people, while their entry level stuff (Bolt for Lightning Audio) tends
>to leave much to be desired and nearly seems like it'll break if touched
>too much. I'm sure it'll put out the power it says, I'm just wary of how
>long.
>
>Brandonb
>
>
>MOSFET wrote:
>> I would second EVERYTHING Brandonb said. Perhaps you should consider a two
>> channel amp, and then bridge it to one channel. This would extract the
>> maximum power from a bridged amplifier to drive your 4 ohm sub.
>>
>> Also, I would avoid Lightning Audio. I have generally not heard positive
>> things over the years about the quality of Lightning (I know there are
>> others who will disagree, but this is just my opinion, don't flame me!). I
>> have owned several Alpine amps over the years and have always been impressed
>> with their quality. I don't know much about JBL amps, but I have not heard
>> anything bad about JBL (they make quality speakers, I know that).
>>
>> MOSFET


I'm just injecting my thoughts for car audio amplifier companies.
It occurred to me, that no company that I know of, that by replacing
their 12 power switched supply with a 120 VAC one, could enter a new market for
compact high current amps. Sounds simple to me. Perhaps there
is a company I'm not aware of. Seems like there should be some kind
of demand for these. Should be about the same cost to make.

greg

[MOSFET]

I'm sure it'll put out the power it says, I'm just wary of how
> long.
>
> Brandonb

Exactly. Cheap amplifiers will generally work just fine at first, and sound
as good as any amplifier out there. What makes them "cheap" is the build
quality, and in particular their ability to withstand lower impedance loads
(and/or high-power levels) over time. I own a 9 year old Fosgate amplifier
and a 10 year old Soundstream amp and these products are built like TANKS.
I guess their ages, and the fact that they are still working PERFECTLY,
tells the whole story. A well made amplifier will last AT LEAST a decade,
if not longer. A cheaper amp will give up the ghost long before that. For
instance, you don't see many 10 year old Majestic or Pyramid amplifiers
around.

MOSFET

[MOSFET]

I probably should have qualified what I said about Lightning. This company
has had been in business a long time and if everything they put out was crap
they certainly wouldn't have lasted this long. I use two Lightening
"Strike" caps in my car and they work GREAT!!!

Like many companies, Lanzar for instance, Lightning has many different
product lines that represent quite varying levels of quality. I have no
doubt that the more expensive product lines will be good, reliable
amplifiers. I should have said to be wary of Lightning's bottom-of-the-line
products.

MOSFET


"yappari" > wrote in message
...
>
> if the lightning audio is cheaper, go for it.
> i've had loooong term experiance with lightning audio, you can bash the
> F&F series, but not the bolt and storm series. Reliablity wise, they're
> great too. i had my 250.1 bolt for a year many moons ago. I added the
> fan module to it and ran it at 1ohm. not sure how much power it put
> out, but i upgraded to a US AMP 150 which should have put out 300wrms
> (this is the old school usamp with .006THD, i doubt anyone will doubt
> that rating or the quality :D) and i didn't notice the slightest
> difference in quality or volume. Even at 1 ohm, it didn't get as hot
> as the USamp. Its also been a year since i've sold it to my friend,
> haven't heard a peep from him about it.
>
> Now the only real issue with lightning audio amps, and i mean all of
> them, is the internal power supply. Its not bad quality or anything,
> its just lacking. It might make your lights dim where another
> hiquality amp might not. I experianced this with the the strike 1000w.
> the 250.1 won't give u any trouble unless your electrical system is on
> the verge of death.
>
>
> --
> yappari

[Captain Howdy]

I doubt that your caps were made by Lightening as most or this kind of crap
is rebranded. I don't find that cheap amplifiers are poorly made. They just
have less of everything such as transistors, smaller caps and much smaller
powersupplies. Many cheap amplifiers aren't even over rated. The problem is
that they can't deliver their rated power all day long like grade A amplifiers
can. Comparing amplifiers isn't that easy there are just too many differances
to factor in. That would be like saying that an SUV is an SUV and using
mosfet's (lol) forester to play tug a war with a hummer then wondering why
poor mosfet is picking up transmission parts out of the mud.

In article >, "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>I probably should have qualified what I said about Lightning. This company
>has had been in business a long time and if everything they put out was crap
>they certainly wouldn't have lasted this long. I use two Lightening
>"Strike" caps in my car and they work GREAT!!!
>
>Like many companies, Lanzar for instance, Lightning has many different
>product lines that represent quite varying levels of quality. I have no
>doubt that the more expensive product lines will be good, reliable
>amplifiers. I should have said to be wary of Lightning's bottom-of-the-line
>products.
>
>MOSFET
>

[MOSFET]

>I doubt that your caps were made by Lightening as most or this kind of crap
> is rebranded. I don't find that cheap amplifiers are poorly made. They
> just
> have less of everything such as transistors, smaller caps and much smaller
> powersupplies. Many cheap amplifiers aren't even over rated. The problem
> is
> that they can't deliver their rated power all day long like grade A
> amplifiers
> can. Comparing amplifiers isn't that easy there are just too many
> differances
> to factor in. That would be like saying that an SUV is an SUV and using
> mosfet's (lol) forester to play tug a war with a hummer then wondering why
> poor mosfet is picking up transmission parts out of the mud.

HEY! My Forester can kick your "winter car" in the butt!!!! lol

MOSFET

[yappari]

Captain Howdy Wrote:
> I doubt that your caps were made by Lightening as most or this kind of
> crap
> is rebranded. I don't find that cheap amplifiers are poorly made. They
> just
> have less of everything such as transistors, smaller caps and much
> smaller
> powersupplies. Many cheap amplifiers aren't even over rated. The
> problem is
> that they can't deliver their rated power all day long like grade A
> amplifiers
> can. Comparing amplifiers isn't that easy there are just too many
> differances
> to factor in. That would be like saying that an SUV is an SUV and using
> mosfet's (lol) forester to play tug a war with a hummer then wondering
> why
> poor mosfet is picking up transmission parts out of the mud.
>
> In article >, "MOSFET"
> > wrote:
> >I probably should have qualified what I said about Lightning. This
> company
> >has had been in business a long time and if everything they put out
> was crap
> >they certainly wouldn't have lasted this long. I use two Lightening
> >"Strike" caps in my car and they work GREAT!!!
> >
> >Like many companies, Lanzar for instance, Lightning has many different
> >product lines that represent quite varying levels of quality. I have
> no
> >doubt that the more expensive product lines will be good, reliable
> >amplifiers. I should have said to be wary of Lightning's
> bottom-of-the-line
> >products.
> >
> >MOSFET
> >

Lightning audio is one of those exceptions. According to the LA
repersentitive that came to the shop i worked at, LA was a project
started by Rockford and employeed some Eclipse employees (like the VP
of Eclipse :)) They started by making caps and accessories which became
a big hit (yes they make them, they're not rebrand). Then they started
to make speaker/amp which wasn't as successful probably because it
wasn't marketed well. Now when they first started sending these
products to car shops, they were kind of expensive, but not too
expensive so they would sell. But they didn't do that well, so they
abandoned the idea. Shops have started to discount their LA items just
to move them along. Look around on ebay and you'll find shops selling
LAamps in massive lots. I personally bought my LA amps from a shop
that had it on the shelf for 2 years collecting dust. If you look at
the LA site they haven't come out with any new products for like 2
years! So when you go buy LA stuff, what should have been like 200
bucks is more like 75 (unless you're getting ripped off) So the
quality is there, you can compare it with the high end stuff, but you
also can't compare it to the low end stuff.


--
yappari

[MOSFET]

> Lightning audio is one of those exceptions. According to the LA
> repersentitive that came to the shop i worked at, LA was a project
> started by Rockford and employeed some Eclipse employees (like the VP
> of Eclipse :)) They started by making caps and accessories which became
> a big hit (yes they make them, they're not rebrand). Then they started
> to make speaker/amp which wasn't as successful probably because it
> wasn't marketed well. Now when they first started sending these
> products to car shops, they were kind of expensive, but not too
> expensive so they would sell. But they didn't do that well, so they
> abandoned the idea. Shops have started to discount their LA items just
> to move them along. Look around on ebay and you'll find shops selling
> LAamps in massive lots. I personally bought my LA amps from a shop
> that had it on the shelf for 2 years collecting dust. If you look at
> the LA site they haven't come out with any new products for like 2
> years! So when you go buy LA stuff, what should have been like 200
> bucks is more like 75 (unless you're getting ripped off) So the
> quality is there, you can compare it with the high end stuff, but you
> also can't compare it to the low end stuff.

That's very interesting, thank you for the company information. When I
worked for Phoenix Gold in Portland (in the late 90's) I was much more in
tune with what was happening in the industry, but my business interests are
elsewhere now (of course, car audio is still my #1 hobby).

But I do stand by what I said before, over the years I have not heard very
positive things about Lightning amps and speakers, but this is second hand
information (from dealers and end-users). I have only used LA caps myself.

MOSFET

[John Durbin]

Another somewhat BS story, unfortunately... Lighting Audio was a
successful independent company that had nothing to do with Rockford
initially. As you said, they were one of the top suppliers of power caps
and other high-end installation accessories like power & speaker
cabling, fuseholders & nice terminals etc. Rockford bought the company
several years ago, and eventually absorbed it internally. They used the
brand primarily as a platform to move heavily into offshore-sourced
amps, subs, and speakers in varying price ranges & degree of quality
from entry level to fairly upscale. They've also produced gear based on
Lighning designs & marketed in mass merchant channels using 2 Fast 2
Furious as a series/brand.

Haven't you guys learned not to believe anything a rep tells you yet?

JD

yappari wrote:
> Captain Howdy Wrote:
>
>>I doubt that your caps were made by Lightening as most or this kind of
>>crap
>>is rebranded. I don't find that cheap amplifiers are poorly made. They
>>just
>>have less of everything such as transistors, smaller caps and much
>>smaller
>>powersupplies. Many cheap amplifiers aren't even over rated. The
>>problem is
>>that they can't deliver their rated power all day long like grade A
>>amplifiers
>>can. Comparing amplifiers isn't that easy there are just too many
>>differances
>>to factor in. That would be like saying that an SUV is an SUV and using
>>mosfet's (lol) forester to play tug a war with a hummer then wondering
>>why
>>poor mosfet is picking up transmission parts out of the mud.
>>
>>In article >, "MOSFET"
> wrote:
>>
>>>I probably should have qualified what I said about Lightning. This
>>
>>company
>>
>>>has had been in business a long time and if everything they put out
>>
>>was crap
>>
>>>they certainly wouldn't have lasted this long. I use two Lightening
>>>"Strike" caps in my car and they work GREAT!!!
>>>
>>>Like many companies, Lanzar for instance, Lightning has many different
>>>product lines that represent quite varying levels of quality. I have
>>
>>no
>>
>>>doubt that the more expensive product lines will be good, reliable
>>>amplifiers. I should have said to be wary of Lightning's
>>
>>bottom-of-the-line
>>
>>>products.
>>>
>>>MOSFET
>>>
>
>
> Lightning audio is one of those exceptions. According to the LA
> repersentitive that came to the shop i worked at, LA was a project
> started by Rockford and employeed some Eclipse employees (like the VP
> of Eclipse :)) They started by making caps and accessories which became
> a big hit (yes they make them, they're not rebrand). Then they started
> to make speaker/amp which wasn't as successful probably because it
> wasn't marketed well. Now when they first started sending these
> products to car shops, they were kind of expensive, but not too
> expensive so they would sell. But they didn't do that well, so they
> abandoned the idea. Shops have started to discount their LA items just
> to move them along. Look around on ebay and you'll find shops selling
> LAamps in massive lots. I personally bought my LA amps from a shop
> that had it on the shelf for 2 years collecting dust. If you look at
> the LA site they haven't come out with any new products for like 2
> years! So when you go buy LA stuff, what should have been like 200
> bucks is more like 75 (unless you're getting ripped off) So the
> quality is there, you can compare it with the high end stuff, but you
> also can't compare it to the low end stuff.
>
>

[MOSFET]

> Haven't you guys learned not to believe anything a rep tells you yet?
>
> JD

LOL

What? Do mean to say that factory reps lie or stretch the truth? Say it
isn't so (I worked in the marketing department at Phoenix Gold, and yes, we
"padded" the truth sometimes).

MOSFET

[bob wald]

lightining audio...LOL.....id never have it in my car.i'd go
lanzer,jvc,profile.theyre priced near the same i think.....LOL,
la.......again....

[Captain Howdy]

LOL

>
>HEY! My Forester can kick your "winter car" in the butt!!!! lol
>
>MOSFET
>
>

[Brandonb]

So its you we can beat the crap out of..... heh.

Brandonb


MOSFET wrote:

> LOL
>
> What? Do mean to say that factory reps lie or stretch the truth? Say it
> isn't so (I worked in the marketing department at Phoenix Gold, and yes, we
> "padded" the truth sometimes).
>
> MOSFET
>
>