Clarification

[Jenn]

Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed - I wonder
when Vlad will show up with his supposed evidence about this LOL) that
I have better hearing than anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just
above average for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
To deny that quanity matters in the judgement of how closely a system
matches the sound of acoustic is, it seems to me, silly. I hear this
music virtually every day, both from an up close perspective, and from
an audience seat. OF COURSE the amount of exposure matters. Who is
more qualified to judge the sound of a system vs. the sound of live
acoustic music: the person who has heard the live music twice, or the
person who has heard it 100 times?

In addition, my formal training and my daily expereince is, in part,
about listening to very small differences in frequency, articulation,
balance, and so forth. Are these matters not part of the audio world?

NONE of this comes as bragging, as some try, lamely, to claim. I don't
consider it to be bragging when a plumber knows how to fix my sink.
He/she is trained and more experienced in that area. I don't consider
it to be bragging when one can measure THD better than I can. Other
people are trained and experienced in that area, where I am not. And
yet, some try to claim that I'm "bragging" or "talking down to mere
mortals" when I mention my experience. Curious.

I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

[George M. Middius]

Jenn said:

> I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
> that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.
>
> Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

On behalf of the Normals, I'd like to accept your clarification as truthful
and straightforward.

It's certainly sad that certain Others are unwilling to accept you meant
just what you said and no more.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com
> Due to the several people displaying questionable reading
> ability and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby
> showing that they have a weak argument), I'll clairfy my
> position on the issue of "hearing".
>
> I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed
> - I wonder when Vlad will show up with his supposed
> evidence about this LOL) that I have better hearing than
> anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just above average
> for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
> from two years ago.

Note that typical hearing tests relate to how small of a sound can be heard,
and are usually limited to 8 KHz on the high end. Live concerts involve
sounds that are at least 60-80 dB louder than the smallest sound that can be
heard. Sound quality as perceived by audiophiles involves sounds that go as
high as 12-18 KHz.

> I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and
> who has the live music experience that I have, will be a
> better judge of the sound of an audio system AS IT
> COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.

This is a straw man argument because Jenn is not discussing this matter with
average persons. She's discussing it with audiophiles, many of which are
frequent attenders at live concerts.

[Robert Morein]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
> and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
> a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".
>
[snip]

Jenn,
You are a gutsy lady, and my hat is off to you.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
>> Due to the several people displaying questionable reading
>> ability and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby
>> showing that they have a weak argument), I'll clairfy my
>> position on the issue of "hearing".
>>
>> I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed
>> - I wonder when Vlad will show up with his supposed
>> evidence about this LOL) that I have better hearing than
>> anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just above average
>> for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
>> from two years ago.
>
> Note that typical hearing tests relate to how small of a sound can be
> heard, and are usually limited to 8 KHz on the high end. Live concerts
> involve sounds that are at least 60-80 dB louder than the smallest sound
> that can be heard. Sound quality as perceived by audiophiles involves
> sounds that go as high as 12-18 KHz.
>
Arny, she hears more and better than you do. Make all the noxious noise you
want, but you cannot hide this fact.

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> Arny, she hears more and better than you do. Make all the noxious noise you
> want, but you cannot hide this fact.

You've been around RAO long enough to know that the chief purpose of Mr.
****'s "debating trade" is to smear feces on facts.

[Robert Morein]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
>> Arny, she hears more and better than you do. Make all the noxious noise
>> you
>> want, but you cannot hide this fact.
>
> You've been around RAO long enough to know that the chief purpose of Mr.
> ****'s "debating trade" is to smear feces on facts.
>
Only if they don't go his way ;)

[Fella]

Jenn wrote:
> I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
> music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
> audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.

I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about your preference of
LP's producing the timbre of instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny
found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been listening to
information, not MUSIC. And given his limited financial means, he will
go on doing so for the rest of his life.. He will pop a CD into his mass
market pioneer cd player and go on constantly struggling to turn the
information coming to him from the QSC NHT setup into music in his head.
It must take a lot of strecthing of the imagination to do so..... I
think one of the reasons why Arny is such a rude and obtuse person
constantly is this constant struggle and effort he has to put forth to
imagine the information coming to him from his stereo system as music.

OTOH, Jenn, you might want to try to listening to strings, violins, from
sonus faber speakers (concerto grand piano, cremona auditor, cremona
floorstander) fed by plinius or some odyssey audio amps (stratos+ or the
stratos mono extremes to be precise) and the SOURCE being Linn genki or
better Ikemi OR plinius cd101. Not all cd players, amps, speakers, sound
the same you know. :)

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
> Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
> and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
> a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".
>
> I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed - I wonder
> when Vlad will show up with his supposed evidence about this LOL) that
> I have better hearing than anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just
> above average for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
> from two years ago.
>
> I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
> music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
> audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
> To deny that quanity matters in the judgement of how closely a system
> matches the sound of acoustic is, it seems to me, silly. I hear this
> music virtually every day, both from an up close perspective, and from
> an audience seat. OF COURSE the amount of exposure matters. Who is
> more qualified to judge the sound of a system vs. the sound of live
> acoustic music: the person who has heard the live music twice, or the
> person who has heard it 100 times?
>
> In addition, my formal training and my daily expereince is, in part,
> about listening to very small differences in frequency, articulation,
> balance, and so forth. Are these matters not part of the audio world?
>
> NONE of this comes as bragging, as some try, lamely, to claim. I don't
> consider it to be bragging when a plumber knows how to fix my sink.
> He/she is trained and more experienced in that area. I don't consider
> it to be bragging when one can measure THD better than I can. Other
> people are trained and experienced in that area, where I am not. And
> yet, some try to claim that I'm "bragging" or "talking down to mere
> mortals" when I mention my experience. Curious.
>
> I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
> that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.
>
> Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

I consider myself fortunate to have a real--life professional
musician grace these too often moronic pages. As far as I know
you're one of the very few to take interest.
I think Von Karajan took some interest But obviously not enough- look
what a mess DG made of the best of his music...
On the other hand... (Can't help being argumentative) most
musicians I met couldn't care less about hifi. The symphony violinists
I met always wanted it louder "bacause I can't hear my violin"..
And can I indulge in the "debating trade" and say that I'd rather
listen
to Klemperer conducting stone- deaf than to the thinkers
like Sullivan, Chung, NYOB et al, perfect hearing and all,
all together or separately.
Not to bring Beethoven down
from the Olympus as a material witness that "good hearing" is not
all that this is about. Nor is money.Nor is pop acceptance,
How about something elusive,
not in audio textbooks, not quantifiable by "testing, not bought
with $$$. Can't think of any better name for it than-- good taste.
I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
still
so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
for
the leitmotif and have done.
Anyway non illegitimi carborundum.and fight the good
battle..
Ludovic Mirabel

[Jenn]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
> > Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
> > and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
> > a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".
> >
> > I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed - I wonder
> > when Vlad will show up with his supposed evidence about this LOL) that
> > I have better hearing than anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just
> > above average for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
> > from two years ago.
> >
> > I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
> > music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
> > audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
> > To deny that quanity matters in the judgement of how closely a system
> > matches the sound of acoustic is, it seems to me, silly. I hear this
> > music virtually every day, both from an up close perspective, and from
> > an audience seat. OF COURSE the amount of exposure matters. Who is
> > more qualified to judge the sound of a system vs. the sound of live
> > acoustic music: the person who has heard the live music twice, or the
> > person who has heard it 100 times?
> >
> > In addition, my formal training and my daily expereince is, in part,
> > about listening to very small differences in frequency, articulation,
> > balance, and so forth. Are these matters not part of the audio world?
> >
> > NONE of this comes as bragging, as some try, lamely, to claim. I don't
> > consider it to be bragging when a plumber knows how to fix my sink.
> > He/she is trained and more experienced in that area. I don't consider
> > it to be bragging when one can measure THD better than I can. Other
> > people are trained and experienced in that area, where I am not. And
> > yet, some try to claim that I'm "bragging" or "talking down to mere
> > mortals" when I mention my experience. Curious.
> >
> > I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
> > that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.
> >
> > Thanks for allowing me to clarify.
>
> I consider myself fortunate to have a real--life professional
> musician grace these too often moronic pages.

I'm fortunate that the group is here (however, um, odd the group is!) so
that I might learn and express my views.

> As far as I know
> you're one of the very few to take interest.
> I think Von Karajan took some interest But obviously not enough- look
> what a mess DG made of the best of his music...
> On the other hand... (Can't help being argumentative) most
> musicians I met couldn't care less about hifi.

That's true. There are a few famous and highly placed professional
classical types who do care... MTT, Boyd Hood (trumpet, LA Phil), Stan
Drucker (clarinet, NY Phil), Wynton, Jim Boyk, others.

> The symphony violinists
> I met always wanted it louder "bacause I can't hear my violin"..
> And can I indulge in the "debating trade" and say that I'd rather
> listen
> to Klemperer conducting stone- deaf than to the thinkers
> like Sullivan, Chung, NYOB et al, perfect hearing and all,
> all together or separately.
> Not to bring Beethoven down
> from the Olympus as a material witness that "good hearing" is not
> all that this is about. Nor is money.Nor is pop acceptance,
> How about something elusive,
> not in audio textbooks, not quantifiable by "testing, not bought
> with $$$. Can't think of any better name for it than-- good taste.
> I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
> still
> so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
> for
> the leitmotif and have done.

Generally true.

>
> Anyway non illegitimi carborundum.and fight the good
> battle..
> Ludovic Mirabel

Thanks.

[Jenn]

In article >,
Fella > wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
> > I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
> > music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
> > audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
>
> I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about your preference of
> LP's producing the timbre of instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny
> found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
> been suspecting all along; All these years he has been listening to
> information, not MUSIC. And given his limited financial means, he will
> go on doing so for the rest of his life.. He will pop a CD into his mass
> market pioneer cd player and go on constantly struggling to turn the
> information coming to him from the QSC NHT setup into music in his head.
> It must take a lot of strecthing of the imagination to do so..... I
> think one of the reasons why Arny is such a rude and obtuse person
> constantly is this constant struggle and effort he has to put forth to
> imagine the information coming to him from his stereo system as music.
>
> OTOH, Jenn, you might want to try to listening to strings, violins, from
> sonus faber speakers (concerto grand piano, cremona auditor, cremona
> floorstander)

Have done so, at the Analogue Room, San Jose. Fabulous!

> fed by plinius or some odyssey audio amps (stratos+ or the
> stratos mono extremes to be precise) and the SOURCE being Linn genki or
> better Ikemi OR plinius cd101.

Thanks; I'll look for them.

> Not all cd players, amps, speakers, sound
> the same you know. :)

Really?? :-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Fella" > wrote in message


> I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
> your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
> instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
> you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
> been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
> listening to information, not MUSIC.

Absolutely bizarre.

> And given his limited financial means, he will go on doing so for the
> rest of his life..

Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
these days. We've got Art Sackman who delusionally believes that he has
monitored my email for the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
not receive. We've got Fella who claims to monitor my tax returns and
financial receipts.

BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can pretend to be
extremely rich, and who will know? Fella can be brave and rich while he
hides behind his made-uup alias.

>He will pop a CD into his mass market
> pioneer cd player and go on constantly struggling to turn
> the information coming to him from the QSC NHT setup into
> music in his head.

Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does not know about all
the live music I listen to.

>It must take a lot of strecthing of
> the imagination to do so..... I think one of the reasons
> why Arny is such a rude and obtuse person constantly is
> this constant struggle and effort he has to put forth to
> imagine the information coming to him from his stereo
> system as music.

Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know about the many high
end audio systems that I've listened to in recent times. Some of them sound
pretty good, but none of them sound head-and-shoulders better than a
well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.
>
> OTOH, Jenn, you might want to try to listening to
> strings, violins, from sonus faber speakers (concerto
> grand piano, cremona auditor, cremona floorstander) fed
> by plinius or some odyssey audio amps (stratos+ or the
> stratos mono extremes to be precise) and the SOURCE being
> Linn genki or better Ikemi OR plinius cd101. Not all cd
> players, amps, speakers, sound the same you know. :)

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Fella" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>>I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
>> your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
>>instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
>>you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
>>been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
>>listening to information, not MUSIC.
>
>
> Absolutely bizarre.

That one listens to information from a pioneer -> qsc ->lamp cord -> nht
setup and converts it to music by means of rigorous use of imagination?
Absolutely agree.

>
>
> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
> these days.


Just whose sockpuppet am I, according to you.


> BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can pretend to be
> extremely rich,

Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not need to be
extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a pair of sonus faber
speakers, for instance.. A regular well paying job is more then enough
to get all these goodies.

BTW: If you think that you can deter me with all this putting words in
my mouth trading debate bull****, you have another thing coming boy. You
know very well from past experience that I can virtually beat you to a
pulp anytime I wish to take you on so watch it!


> Fella can be brave and rich while he
> hides behind his made-uup alias.

Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences, theories and
knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT ID CARDS!

My theory explaining as to why you are the abhorrent, repugnant and
obnoxious little lost soul that you are is that you are deep down, an
audiophile, a GOLDEN EARED audiophile! But you deny yourself this, be it
for financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being fooled by the
non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have ended up listening to a
system feeding you information pertaining to music that leave you in a
constant cold and wanting state. You thus get frustrated and you went
your anger and frustration around here! Simple. Sometimes the simplest
of the explanations turn out to be true, you know. :)

>
>
> Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does not know about all
> the live music I listen to.

I know you listen to live music on occasion and that's why I say this:

"Arny found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself
had been suspecting all along;"

Yes Arn old boy, all along, deep down inside, you've been nurturing this
doubt, this deep shadowy suspicion as to what real music is (since you
*do* hear it on occasion) and how far far away information signals you
are getting from your stereo system badly disguised as music. This is
exactly what gets you so frustrated.

>
>
> Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know about the many high
> end audio systems that I've listened to in recent times. Some of them sound
> pretty good, but none of them sound head-and-shoulders better than a
> well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.

Yeah, sure. :)

[Arny Krueger]

"Fella" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
>>> your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
>>> instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
>>> you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
>>> been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
>>> listening to information, not MUSIC.

>> Absolutely bizarre.

> That one listens to information from a pioneer -> qsc
> ->lamp cord -> nht setup and converts it to music by
> means of rigorous use of imagination? Absolutely agree.

Well Fella given that you're hiding behind an alias, why not entertain us
with the incredible stereo system that you have, which is no doubt as
imaginary as your persona here.

>> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
>> RAO sockpuppets these days.

> Just whose sockpuppet am I, according to you.

I have no idea. But you're not posting under your real name.

>> BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can
>> pretend to be extremely rich.

> Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not
> need to be extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a
> pair of sonus faber speakers, for instance.. A regular
> well paying job is more then enough to get all these
> goodies.

If sonus fabers are goodies. I've heard them - nothing special but the
looks.

>> Fella can be brave and rich while he
>> hides behind his made-uup alias.

> Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences,
> theories and knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT
> ID CARDS!

In fact Fella's Sonus Fabers might be as imaginary as his persona, or not.

> My theory explaining as to why you are the abhorrent,
> repugnant and obnoxious little lost soul that you are is
> that you are deep down, an audiophile, a GOLDEN EARED
> audiophile!

I think this is true.

> But you deny yourself this, be it for
> financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being
> fooled by the non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have
> ended up listening to a system feeding you information
> pertaining to music that leave you in a constant cold and
> wanting state.

The wanting state is a figment of your imagination, Fella. I have the audio
equipment that I want to have.

> You thus get frustrated and you went your
> anger and frustration around here! Simple. Sometimes the
> simplest of the explanations turn out to be true, you
> know. :)

If anything frustrates me, its people like you who make up purported facts,
like the above.

>> Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does
>> not know about all the live music I listen to.

> I know you listen to live music on occasion and that's
> why I say this:

> "Arny found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt,
> what he himself had been suspecting all along;"

> Yes Arn old boy, all along, deep down inside, you've been
> nurturing this doubt, this deep shadowy suspicion as to
> what real music is (since you *do* hear it on occasion)
> and how far far away information signals you are getting
> from your stereo system badly disguised as music. This is
> exactly what gets you so frustrated.

Fella, a steady diet of live music and experiences with mixing live sounds
and recordings does the exact opposite.

>> Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know
>> about the many high end audio systems that I've listened
>> to in recent times. Some of them sound pretty good, but
>> none of them sound head-and-shoulders better than a
>> well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.

> Yeah, sure. :)

Thanks for denying that I attended HE2005 Fella - given that there is so
much evidence that I actually was there. Heard the recording? Seen the
pictures?

[Fella]

Arny Krueger wrote:

>
>
> Well Fella given that you're hiding behind an alias, why not entertain us
> with the incredible stereo system that you have,

Well arn old boy, old chum, nice of you to ask. Right now I employ sonus
faber concerto grand piano speakers, odyssey audio stratos+ power amp
(120000uF capacitors, 60 amps per channel current delivery!), the
odyssey tempest preamp and the judge is still out there for the CD
player (hence the reason why I returned to this opinion group).. I am in
an audition state comparing the linn genki to the plinius cd101. And
BOY! is the genki putting up a fight! Amazing, actually.. I digress.

There are thousands and thousands of people all around the world with
stuff like this arny. Why would *I* be the one just imagining to own
them? What's so special and unattainable about them, do you think? Are
you perhaps, projecting again, arn old boy old chum you? :)

>
>>Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not
>>need to be extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a
>>pair of sonus faber speakers, for instance.. A regular
>>well paying job is more then enough to get all these
>>goodies.
>
>
> If sonus fabers are goodies. I've heard them - nothing special but the
> looks.

The question was this: "Where did I say I was extremely rich arny?"
Didn't ask your worthless spitefull and hatemail opinion about any SF
speakers.

The question still is: "Where did I say I was extremely rich arny?"

>
>
>
>>Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences,
>>theories and knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT
>>ID CARDS!
>
>
> In fact Fella's Sonus Fabers might be as imaginary as his persona, or not.

Woah! arny, that's some mother of a counter argument, I am flabbergasted. :)

>

>
>>But you deny yourself this, be it for
>>financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being
>>fooled by the non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have
>>ended up listening to a system feeding you information
>>pertaining to music that leave you in a constant cold and
>>wanting state.
>
>
> The wanting state is a figment of your imagination, Fella.


Ok, like I said, just a theory, my two cents, as it were. So how do
*you* explain this beyond-negative existence of yours then arn old boy?


> I have the audio
> equipment that I want to have.

You think so at least. But the subconscious, the alter ego is a funny
thing to fool with. :) You constantly have to tell yourself that "this
is OK! this sound is OK! this is MUSIC ferchrissakes!" when you are
listening to music at home. Sad.

>
>
>
>
> If anything frustrates me, its people like you who make up purported facts,
> like the above.

This theory of mine would not have angered you if there wasn't some
truth to it, yes? Yes. Thanks.

You theorize that I have no stereos to speak of, or SF speakers sound
ordinary, etc. Look and see if I care. :)

>

>
> Thanks for denying that I attended HE2005 Fella - given that there is so
> much evidence that I actually was there. Heard the recording? Seen the
> pictures?
Yeah once in your friggin life you went to high end show:

1) It was a once in a lifetime deal. I don't think even JA is polyanna
enough to invite you a second time. :)
2) you get the worst kind of sound in those shows, cramped up, crowded,
noisy, yuck. Been there, done that. No good. You get a "hint" in those
shows, nothing else.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Fella" > wrote in message
>
>
>
> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
> these days. We've got Art Sackman who delusionally believes that he has
> monitored my email for the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and
> did not receive.

I don't need to read your email.
I know when you are lying when
you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
contradictory, and ever-changing fable.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[George M. Middius]

Ludo said:

> I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
> still so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
> for the leitmotif and have done.

I dunno. A home system may not sound "real" but it can surely sound
pleasing.

[Arny Krueger]

"Fella" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Well Fella given that you're hiding behind an alias, why
>> not entertain us with the incredible stereo system that
>> you have,
>
> Well arn old boy, old chum, nice of you to ask. Right now
> I employ sonus faber concerto grand piano speakers,
> odyssey audio stratos+ power amp (120000uF capacitors, 60
> amps per channel current delivery!), the odyssey tempest preamp and the
> judge is still out there
> for the CD player (hence the reason why I returned to this opinion
> group).. I am in an audition state comparing the linn genki to the plinius
> cd101. And BOY! is the genki putting up a fight! Amazing, actually..
> I digress.
> There are thousands and thousands of people all around
> the world with stuff like this arny.

That would be 2,000 people of a world population of about 6.5 billion
people. Since love of music is a basic human value, that means that a few
thousandths of a percent of all music lovers have a system like yours,
Fella. So what?

> Why would *I* be the one just imagining to own them?

Dream on, little dreamer!

> What's so special and unattainable about them, do
> you think?

It's not about them being unattainable, its about the bragging rights. See
your post above for an example of you bragging about your potentially
sand-castle of an audio system. Frankly, I wouldn't touch the junk in your
system with a 3 meter pole.

>Are you perhaps, projecting again, arn old boy old chum you?
> :)

Projecting what, common sense? Desire for a good level of sonic performance
while leaving cash for my other audio-related interests, like the 30-odd
recording mics that I have?

>>> Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not
>>> need to be extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a
>>> pair of sonus faber speakers, for instance.. A regular
>>> well paying job is more then enough to get all these
>>> goodies.


>> If sonus fabers are goodies. I've heard them - nothing
>> special but the looks.
>
> The question was this: "Where did I say I was extremely
> rich arny?"

I never said you had to be extremely rich.

> Didn't ask your worthless spitefull and hatemail opinion
> about any SF speakers.

Whatver that means.

> The question still is: "Where did I say I was extremely
> rich arny?"

Asked and answered. Sure a guy with modest means can build up an exotic
audio system, but its also true that the essence of the high end is
appealing to the carriage trade.

There's an element of pride called "I can own a carriage trade audio system
even though I have modest means". The irony is that most really rich people
don't care that much about audio. For example, why blow money on an audio
system when you can have a stake (say large contributor and seat on the
board of directors) in a well-known symphony orchestra and also attend every
concert?

>>> Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences,
>>> theories and knowledge that are being exchanged here,
>>> NOT ID CARDS!
>>
>> In fact Fella's Sonus Fabers might be as imaginary as
>> his persona, or not.
>
> Woah! arny, that's some mother of a counter argument, I
> am flabbergasted. :)

Sue me for not pretending to be omniscient.

>>> But you deny yourself this, be it for
>>> financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being
>>> fooled by the non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have
>>> ended up listening to a system feeding you information
>>> pertaining to music that leave you in a constant cold
>>> and wanting state.
>
>> The wanting state is a figment of your imagination,
>> Fella.

> Ok, like I said, just a theory, my two cents, as it were.
> So how do *you* explain this beyond-negative existence of
> yours then arn old boy?

It's a positive existence - its about knowing what really matters and what
does not.

>> I have the audio equipment that I want to have.
>
> You think so at least. But the subconscious, the alter
> ego is a funny thing to fool with. :) You constantly have to tell
> yourself that "this is OK! this sound is OK! this is MUSIC
> ferchrissakes!"
> when you are listening to music at home. Sad.

Actually, I'm so busy with live music that I don't listen a lot at home.

>> If anything frustrates me, its people like you who make
>> up purported facts, like the above.

> This theory of mine would not have angered you if there
> wasn't some truth to it, yes? Yes. Thanks.

Me angry? Maybe a little sad about your gratuitous attacks Fella, but those
are your problem not mine.

> You theorize that I have no stereos to speak of, or SF
> speakers sound ordinary, etc. Look and see if I care. :)

What??

>> Thanks for denying that I attended HE2005 Fella - given
>> that there is so much evidence that I actually was
>> there. Heard the recording? Seen the pictures?
> Yeah once in your friggin life you went to high end show:

> 1) It was a once in a lifetime deal. I don't think even
> JA is polyanna enough to invite you a second time. :)

I am truely grateful to Middius for convincing JA that I am not competent
enough to make a credible showing. A free, expenses-paid trip to New York
and a free pass to a major audio show beats a kick in the head.

> 2) you get the worst kind of sound in those shows,
> cramped up, crowded, noisy, yuck. Been there, done that.
> No good. You get a "hint" in those shows, nothing else.

Actually, some of the demos were pretty much devoid of all that. Obviously
Fella, you're talking about stuff you know nothing about.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
>> RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art Sackman who
>> delusionally believes that he has monitored my email for
>> the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
>> not receive.

> I don't need to read your email.

> I know when you are lying when
> you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
> contradictory, and ever-changing fable.

Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and more resently
Sackman over the years, its completely plausable that people would sink this
low. Their, and more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
exceeded that of the email.

BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had occasionally received
pornographic email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.

The only thing that has changed over the years was the added information
that came out of the analysis by the MSP.

The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about all of this foul
behavior has generally been traceable to people of the so-called
subjectivist persuasion. As a rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are more
insulting, more profane, and more childish.

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message

> Ludo said:
>
>> I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the
>> best hi fi is
>> still so far from live that one may just as well listen
>> to the mantel radio for the leitmotif and have done.
>
> I dunno. A home system may not sound "real" but it can
> surely sound pleasing.

Archive this post and note the date and time. It's an audio-related post by
Middius!

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
>>> RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art Sackman who
>>> delusionally believes that he has monitored my email for
>>> the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
>>> not receive.
>
>> I don't need to read your email.
>
>> I know when you are lying when
>> you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
>> contradictory, and ever-changing fable.
>
> Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and more resently
> Sackman over the years, its completely plausable that people would sink
> this low. Their, and more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
> exceeded that of the email.

No, Arny, it has not. You're the bad guy, not Art.
>
> BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had occasionally received
> pornographic email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>
Prove it.


> The only thing that has changed over the years was the added information
> that came out of the analysis by the MSP.
>
> The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about all of this foul
> behavior has generally been traceable to people of the so-called
> subjectivist persuasion. As a rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are
> more insulting, more profane, and more childish.
A "fair" comment? Then would be equally fair to say that nasty people suffer
personal tragedies.
Absurd.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem
>>>> among RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art
>>>> Sackman who delusionally believes that he has
>>>> monitored my email for the past 6-7 years and knows
>>>> what email I did and did not receive.
>>
>>> I don't need to read your email.
>>
>>> I know when you are lying when
>>> you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
>>> contradictory, and ever-changing fable.
>>
>> Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and
>> more resently Sackman over the years, its completely
>> plausable that people would sink this low. Their, and
>> more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
>> exceeded that of the email.
>
> No, Arny, it has not. You're the bad guy, not Art.
>>
>> BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had
>> occasionally received pornographic email from more
>> clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
> Prove it.
>
>
>> The only thing that has changed over the years was the
>> added information that came out of the analysis by the
>> MSP. The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about
>> all of this foul behavior has generally been traceable
>> to people of the so-called subjectivist persuasion. As a
>> rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are more insulting,
>> more profane, and more childish.

> A "fair" comment?

As fair as I can make it. My nominations for the vilest posters on RAO of
all time would be Derrida, Middius, Briggs, Singh, and Benchemol -
subjectivists all.

>Then would be equally fair to say that
> nasty people suffer personal tragedies.
> Absurd.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > Due to the several people displaying questionable reading
> > ability and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby
> > showing that they have a weak argument), I'll clairfy my
> > position on the issue of "hearing".
> >
> > I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed
> > - I wonder when Vlad will show up with his supposed
> > evidence about this LOL) that I have better hearing than
> > anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just above average
> > for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
> > from two years ago.
>
> Note that typical hearing tests relate to how small of a sound can be heard,
> and are usually limited to 8 KHz on the high end. Live concerts involve
> sounds that are at least 60-80 dB louder than the smallest sound that can be
> heard.

So?

> Sound quality as perceived by audiophiles involves sounds that go as
> high as 12-18 KHz.

How is this different than what I am required to hear?
>
> > I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and
> > who has the live music experience that I have, will be a
> > better judge of the sound of an audio system AS IT
> > COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
>
> This is a straw man argument because Jenn is not discussing this matter with
> average persons. She's discussing it with audiophiles, many of which are
> frequent attenders at live concerts.

And quantity doesn't matter, right?

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> I had occasionally received pornographic email from more
> clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.

It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an audio
newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a make a new
claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event. Please, please
leave it alone.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" > wrote
in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from more
>> clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>
> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a make
> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
> Please, please leave it alone.

Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged and threatened,
spurred by Art. Art has brought this topic up a number of times recently,
and I've let it pass. He's obviously looking for vindication for himself
and Middius. Think I should give him a pass?

However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no surprise
people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress the
truth?

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from more
>>> clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>
>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a make
>> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
>> Please, please leave it alone.
>
> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged and threatened,
> spurred by Art. Art has brought this topic up a number of times recently,
> and I've let it pass. He's obviously looking for vindication for himself
> and Middius. Think I should give him a pass?
>
> However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
> clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no surprise
> people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress
> the truth?
How could you possibly trace them?
Prove it.

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> > However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
> > clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no surprise
> > people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress
> > the truth?

> How could you possibly trace them?
> Prove it.

Nobody will believe him anyway. Not even Mikey.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>> in message
>> oups.com
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from
>>>> more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>>
>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a
>>> make a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic
>>> event. Please, please leave it alone.
>>
>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged
>> and threatened, spurred by Art. Art has brought this
>> topic up a number of times recently, and I've let it
>> pass. He's obviously looking for vindication for
>> himself and Middius. Think I should give him a pass? However it is true
>> that I received some pornographic
>> email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to
>> 1998. The sources were, no surprise people who consider
>> themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress the
>> truth?

> How could you possibly trace them?

The fools sent them from their regular accounts.

> Prove it.

This was like 8 years ago and all traces have been long destroyed. No proof
is possible or warranted.

[Arny Krueger]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>> in message
>> oups.com
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from
>>>> more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>>
>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a
>>> make a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic
>>> event. Please, please leave it alone.
>>
>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged
>> and threatened, spurred by Art. <snip>
>
> LOL "begged and threatened"? LOL I think the quote is
> something like, "Arny, what's your side?"

I've explained this to you Jenn, but you don't seem to *get it*..

You asked for my side because of a post by Art Sackman, a well-known
habitual liar.

So number one - if you had common sense equal to or greater than that of a
carrot, you'd know that only a person who believes Art's lies would even
bother to ask for the other side of a story he tells. You wouldn't want to
be that person!

> That's all.
> And I wasn't asking anything about your son's death; I
> learned that lesson.

It's well known around here that the pedophile email is one of Art's
favorite topics, and that its related to my son's death. How well known? If
you don't know it you're among the very few.

> I asked about the porn thing since
> others brought it up, only asking to hear your side out
> of fairness.

Yup, a porn thing would have to be unrelated to the well-known ways that
Middius and his buddies turned my son's death into a porn thing.

> Sadly, as usual, you took this offer as
> some kind of vast conspiracy.

Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over my son's death and
Middius' sexploitation one more time.

<To complete the story, a number of people will shortly criticize me for
again explaining this matter to Jenn, perhaps including no less than John
Atkinson. He just did it once, why not repeat himself?>

I should remember that Jenn is so innocent that she's incapable of putting 2
and 2 together when it relates to people like Sackman and Middius. She
takes what they say as being the gospel truth. They've never lied to her or
deceived her or anybody else. They've been flogging this issue for 8 years
for the fun of it and why should they stop now?

Note that Morein can't bring himself to cross Middius, either.

[dave weil]

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:47:26 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
>> Sadly, as usual, you took this offer as
>> some kind of vast conspiracy.
>
>Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over my son's death and
>Middius' sexploitation one more time.

"Jenn made me do it".

[Robert Morein]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:47:26 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>> Sadly, as usual, you took this offer as
>>> some kind of vast conspiracy.
>>
>>Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over my son's death and
>>Middius' sexploitation one more time.
>
> "Jenn made me do it".

An Arny classic. A young woman "bullies" shy, retiring Arny Krueger, into
doing something he didn't want to do.

Thank you, Dave, for pointing out the absurdity of it.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Jenn" > wrote in message
> oups.com
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>>> in message
>>> oups.com
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from
>>>>> more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>>>
>>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a
>>>> make a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic
>>>> event. Please, please leave it alone.
>>>
>>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged
>>> and threatened, spurred by Art. <snip>
>>
>> LOL "begged and threatened"? LOL I think the quote is
>> something like, "Arny, what's your side?"
>
> I've explained this to you Jenn, but you don't seem to *get it*..
>
> You asked for my side because of a post by Art Sackman, a well-known
> habitual liar.
>
> So number one - if you had common sense equal to or greater than that of a
> carrot, you'd know that only a person who believes Art's lies would even
> bother to ask for the other side of a story he tells. You wouldn't want
> to be that person!
>
>> That's all.
>> And I wasn't asking anything about your son's death; I
>> learned that lesson.
>
> It's well known around here that the pedophile email is one of Art's
> favorite topics, and that its related to my son's death. How well known?
> If you don't know it you're among the very few.
>
>> I asked about the porn thing since
>> others brought it up, only asking to hear your side out
>> of fairness.
>
> Yup, a porn thing would have to be unrelated to the well-known ways that
> Middius and his buddies turned my son's death into a porn thing.
>
>> Sadly, as usual, you took this offer as
>> some kind of vast conspiracy.
>
> Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over my son's death and
> Middius' sexploitation one more time.
>
> <To complete the story, a number of people will shortly criticize me for
> again explaining this matter to Jenn, perhaps including no less than John
> Atkinson. He just did it once, why not repeat himself?>
>
> I should remember that Jenn is so innocent that she's incapable of putting
> 2 and 2 together when it relates to people like Sackman and Middius. She
> takes what they say as being the gospel truth. They've never lied to her
> or deceived her or anybody else. They've been flogging this issue for 8
> years for the fun of it and why should they stop now?
>
> Note that Morein can't bring himself to cross Middius, either.
>
Arny, Middius is a mosquito. He bites frequently, but not hard.
You are an extremely nasty person.

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
> > It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
> > audio newsgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make
> > a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
> > Please, please leave it alone.
>
> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up...

No, it was orignally Mike McKelvy. But you have run and run
with it, fanning the flames when others let it alone. I am
tired of you turning almost every thread on the newsgroup
into a discussion of poor pitiful you. You need get over
yourself, Mr. Krueger, and stop jumping down other's throats
merely because they hold preferences different to your own.

> Jenn begged and threatened...

Having followed these thread with applled fascination, no she
didn't. She asked you for your side of the story.

> However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
> clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998.

In your own words Mr. Krueger, "prove it." I find it extraordinary
that only _now_, nearly 9 years later, you remember these emails.

> The sources were, no surprise people who consider themseleves
> subjectivists.

In your own words, Mr. Krueger, "prove it."

> Am I supposed to supress the truth?

I doubt that you even remember what the truth is, Mr.
Krueger, given the falsehoods you repeat so glibly
about me. :-(

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Jenn" > wrote in message
>> oups.com
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> "John Atkinson" >
>>>> wrote in message
>>>> oups.com
>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from
>>>>>> more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>>>>
>>>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>>>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a
>>>>> make a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic
>>>>> event. Please, please leave it alone.
>>>>
>>>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged
>>>> and threatened, spurred by Art. <snip>
>>>
>>> LOL "begged and threatened"? LOL I think the quote is
>>> something like, "Arny, what's your side?"
>>
>> I've explained this to you Jenn, but you don't seem to
>> *get it*.. You asked for my side because of a post by Art Sackman,
>> a well-known habitual liar.
>>
>> So number one - if you had common sense equal to or
>> greater than that of a carrot, you'd know that only a
>> person who believes Art's lies would even bother to ask
>> for the other side of a story he tells. You wouldn't
>> want to be that person!
>>> That's all.
>>> And I wasn't asking anything about your son's death; I
>>> learned that lesson.
>>
>> It's well known around here that the pedophile email is
>> one of Art's favorite topics, and that its related to my
>> son's death. How well known? If you don't know it
>> you're among the very few.
>>> I asked about the porn thing since
>>> others brought it up, only asking to hear your side out
>>> of fairness.
>>
>> Yup, a porn thing would have to be unrelated to the
>> well-known ways that Middius and his buddies turned my
>> son's death into a porn thing.
>>> Sadly, as usual, you took this offer as
>>> some kind of vast conspiracy.
>>
>> Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over
>> my son's death and Middius' sexploitation one more time.
>>
>> <To complete the story, a number of people will shortly
>> criticize me for again explaining this matter to Jenn,
>> perhaps including no less than John Atkinson. He just
>> did it once, why not repeat himself?> I should remember that Jenn is so
>> innocent that she's
>> incapable of putting 2 and 2 together when it relates to
>> people like Sackman and Middius. She takes what they
>> say as being the gospel truth. They've never lied to her
>> or deceived her or anybody else. They've been flogging
>> this issue for 8 years for the fun of it and why should
>> they stop now? Note that Morein can't bring himself to cross Middius,
>> either.
> Arny, Middius is a mosquito. He bites frequently, but not
> hard.

So Robert, you don't consider Middius' many "deadnate" references to be
nasty?

>You are an extremely nasty person.

Robert you are blind to the evil in you in one eye, and can't see the evil
around you with the other.

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >> Sadly, as usual, you took this offer as
> >> some kind of vast conspiracy.

> >Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over my son's death and
> >Middius' sexploitation one more time.

> "Jenn made me do it".

Thanks Mr. Wiel for admitting you profited from my sons' death Mr. Weill.

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> An Arny classic. A young woman

;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" > wrote
in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>> in message
>> oups.com
>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>> audio newsgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make
>>> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
>>> Please, please leave it alone.
>>
>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up...
>
> No, it was orignally Mike McKelvy. But you have run and
> run
> with it, fanning the flames when others let it alone. I am
> tired of you turning almost every thread on the newsgroup
> into a discussion of poor pitiful you.

But its perfectly OK for Middius, Morein and Sackman to turn almost every
thread on this newsgroup into a discussion of poor pitiful me?

> You need get over
> yourself, Mr. Krueger, and stop jumping down other's
> throats merely because they hold preferences different to
> your own.

If that was the true issue, then the current context would be even more
pathetic than it is.

>> Jenn begged and threatened...
>
> Having followed these thread with applled fascination, no
> she didn't. She asked you for your side of the story.

She shouldn't have given Art that much credibility.

>> However it is true that I received some pornographic
>> email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to
>> 1998.

> In your own words Mr. Krueger, "prove it." I find it
> extraordinary that only _now_, nearly 9 years later, you
> remember these emails.

I find it extraordinary that anybody would expect that I kept any proof
related to them around this long - but you've done so Atkinson. How do you
defend that?

>> The sources were, no surprise people who consider
>> themseleves subjectivists.

> In your own words, Mr. Krueger, "prove it."

Asked and answered.

>> Am I supposed to supress the truth?

> I doubt that you even remember what the truth is, Mr.
> Krueger, given the falsehoods you repeat so glibly
> about me. :-(

Come on John. You know that many consider you to be a habitual liar because
of the lies and false claims that you glibly publish in that ragazine you
edit. It is far from being just me, no matter how much you target me. Your
only reasonable defense is that while you've been ethically corrupt over a
period of many years, its made you a lot of money. This is of course just my
opinion, but it seems to me to be a widely-shared opinon.

Besides this whole rotten mess is becoming moot, because listen-at-home
audio-only is fading. It was mostly a boomer thing.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>>> in message
>>> oups.com
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from
>>>>> more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>>>
>>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a
>>>> make a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic
>>>> event. Please, please leave it alone.
>>>
>>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged
>>> and threatened, spurred by Art. Art has brought this
>>> topic up a number of times recently, and I've let it
>>> pass. He's obviously looking for vindication for
>>> himself and Middius. Think I should give him a pass? However it is true
>>> that I received some pornographic
>>> email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to
>>> 1998. The sources were, no surprise people who consider
>>> themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress the
>>> truth?
>
>> How could you possibly trace them?
>
> The fools sent them from their regular accounts.
>
>> Prove it.
>
> This was like 8 years ago and all traces have been long destroyed. No
> proof is possible or warranted.
Of course it's warranted. If you can't prove it, then put it to bed. Never
mention it again.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>>> in message
>>> oups.com
>>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>>> audio newsgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make
>>>> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
>>>> Please, please leave it alone.
>>>
>>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up...
>>
>> No, it was orignally Mike McKelvy. But you have run and
>> run
>> with it, fanning the flames when others let it alone. I am
>> tired of you turning almost every thread on the newsgroup
>> into a discussion of poor pitiful you.
>
> But its perfectly OK for Middius, Morein and Sackman to turn almost every
> thread on this newsgroup into a discussion of poor pitiful me?
>
>> You need get over
>> yourself, Mr. Krueger, and stop jumping down other's
>> throats merely because they hold preferences different to
>> your own.
>
> If that was the true issue, then the current context would be even more
> pathetic than it is.
>
>>> Jenn begged and threatened...
>>
>> Having followed these thread with applled fascination, no
>> she didn't. She asked you for your side of the story.
>
> She shouldn't have given Art that much credibility.
We asked you to prove your claim that Art sent you kiddie porn, and you
replied "not warranted."
In other words, you give yourself carte blanche to smear people.
>
>>> However it is true that I received some pornographic
>>> email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to
>>> 1998.
>
>> In your own words Mr. Krueger, "prove it." I find it
>> extraordinary that only _now_, nearly 9 years later, you
>> remember these emails.
>
> I find it extraordinary that anybody would expect that I kept any proof
> related to them around this long - but you've done so Atkinson. How do you
> defend that?
>
>>> The sources were, no surprise people who consider
>>> themseleves subjectivists.
>
>> In your own words, Mr. Krueger, "prove it."
>
> Asked and answered.
NO.
>
>>> Am I supposed to supress the truth?
>
>> I doubt that you even remember what the truth is, Mr.
>> Krueger, given the falsehoods you repeat so glibly
>> about me. :-(
>
> Come on John. You know that many consider you to be a habitual liar
> because of the lies and false claims that you glibly publish in that
> ragazine you edit. It is far from being just me, no matter how much you
> target me. Your only reasonable defense is that while you've been
> ethically corrupt over a period of many years, its made you a lot of
> money. This is of course just my opinion, but it seems to me to be a
> widely-shared opinon.
>
> Besides this whole rotten mess is becoming moot, because listen-at-home
> audio-only is fading. It was mostly a boomer thing.
>
What an extraordinary smear. Arny, you are a really nasty guy.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
>>> RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art Sackman who
>>> delusionally believes that he has monitored my email for
>>> the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
>>> not receive.
>
>> I don't need to read your email.
>
>> I know when you are lying when
>> you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
>> contradictory, and ever-changing fable.
>
> Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and more resently
> Sackman over the years, its completely plausable that people would sink
> this low. Their, and more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
> exceeded that of the email.
>

So, what behavior do you consider to
be equal or worse than sending kiddie porn emails?


> BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had occasionally received
> pornographic email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>

where are those specific accusations?


> The only thing that has changed over the years was the added information
> that came out of the analysis by the MSP.
>

What was the name, badge number and rank of the MSP
officer that you talked to?

> The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about all of this foul
> behavior has generally been traceable to people of the so-called
> subjectivist persuasion. As a rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are
> more insulting, more profane, and more childish.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from more
>>> clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>
>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a make
>> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
>> Please, please leave it alone.
>
> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged and threatened,
> spurred by Art. Art has brought this topic up a number of times recently,
> and I've let it pass. He's obviously looking for vindication for himself
> and Middius. Think I should give him a pass?
>
> However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
> clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no surprise
> people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress
> the truth?
>

You made public accusations regarding the 1999 incident.
why have you not made public accusations for earlier
incidents, especially considering that you claim that
the sources are more readily indentifiable?
I would think that you would elect to make
the most well documented claim.

Personally, I consider this new subthread to
your sordid false accusations to be
just another lie, a debating trade manuever that,
somehow, you think makes you look more legitimate
compared to your detractors.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> I had occasionally received pornographic email from more
>>> clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.
>>
>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>> audio newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a make
>> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
>> Please, please leave it alone.
>
> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up - Jenn begged and threatened,
> spurred by Art. Art has brought this topic up a number of times recently,
> and I've let it pass. He's obviously looking for vindication for himself
> and Middius. Think I should give him a pass?
>
> However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
> clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no surprise
> people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress
> the truth?


Ary, congrats!
This is probably your most humorous post yet!!!



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Robert you are blind to the evil in you in one eye, and can't see the evil
> around you with the other.


Rober evaluates and compares evil using the well know
blind testing program avaialble on www.pcabx.com




--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
[snip]
>
>>You are an extremely nasty person.
>
> Robert you are blind to the evil in you in one eye, and can't see the evil
> around you with the other.
If you think you are a good person, then stop imitating a bad person. You
act like a complete *******.

[[email protected]]

George M. Middius wrote:
> Ludo said:
>
> > I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
> > still so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
> > for the leitmotif and have done.
>
> I dunno. A home system may not sound "real" but it can surely sound
> pleasing.

I ascribed some ideas to *some* misicians. I
did not say
this is the way I felt.
Ludovic M.

[Jenn]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> Well here we go again, Jenn bullied me into going over my son's death and
> Middius' sexploitation one more time.

LOL I never mentioned your son's death, Arny. YOU did. I wanted to
hear YOUR side of the porn thing, in order to be fair. Damn me.

>
> <To complete the story, a number of people will shortly criticize me for
> again explaining this matter to Jenn, perhaps including no less than John
> Atkinson. He just did it once, why not repeat himself?>
>
> I should remember that Jenn is so innocent that she's incapable of putting 2
> and 2 together when it relates to people like Sackman and Middius. She
> takes what they say as being the gospel truth.

Yeah that would be the logical attitude of someone asking YOUR side for
clarification, right? Like I said, I learned my lesson. I won't ask
for your side ever again.

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> > However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
> > clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no surprise
> > people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to supress
> > the truth?

> Ary, congrats!
> This is probably your most humorous post yet!!!

Humor .... does .... not .... compute. YOU ... WILL ... BE ... ASSIMILATED!

[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Clyde Slick said:
>
>> > However it is true that I received some pornographic email from more
>> > clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to 1998. The sources were, no
>> > surprise
>> > people who consider themseleves subjectivists. Am I supposed to
>> > supress
>> > the truth?
>
>> Ary, congrats!
>> This is probably your most humorous post yet!!!
>
> Humor .... does .... not .... compute. YOU ... WILL ... BE ...
> ASSIMILATED!
>

The humor is situational. His chutzpah had me rolling on the floor.
After a day of getting pounded for his so he makes up
a brand new lie



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
------->>>>>>http://www.NewsDemon.com<<<<<<------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

[paul packer]

On Thu, 2 Mar 2006 14:36:49 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:



>> Note that Morein can't bring himself to cross Middius, either.
>>
>Arny, Middius is a mosquito. He bites frequently, but not hard.

Not quite true. Middius may be a mosquito now, but he has been in
times past an attacking harpy, and at other times an incorrigable
stirrer, as I'm sure he'll admit if he's entirely honest. His "Not
everyone approves of my posts" post of a few days ago is perhaps a
vague admission that his behaviour has not always been impeccable.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote
>> in message
>> oups.com
>>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>>> "John Atkinson" >
>>>> wrote in message
>>>> oups.com
>>>>> It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an
>>>>> audio newsgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make
>>>>> a new claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event.
>>>>> Please, please leave it alone.
>>>>
>>>> Look John, I didn't bring this topic up...
>>>
>>> No, it was orignally Mike McKelvy. But you have run and
>>> run
>>> with it, fanning the flames when others let it alone. I
>>> am tired of you turning almost every thread on the
>>> newsgroup into a discussion of poor pitiful you.
>>
>> But its perfectly OK for Middius, Morein and Sackman to
>> turn almost every thread on this newsgroup into a
>> discussion of poor pitiful me?
>>> You need get over
>>> yourself, Mr. Krueger, and stop jumping down other's
>>> throats merely because they hold preferences different
>>> to your own.
>>
>> If that was the true issue, then the current context
>> would be even more pathetic than it is.
>>
>>>> Jenn begged and threatened...
>>>
>>> Having followed these thread with applled fascination,
>>> no she didn't. She asked you for your side of the story.
>>
>> She shouldn't have given Art that much credibility.
> We asked you to prove your claim that Art sent you kiddie
> porn, and you replied "not warranted."
> In other words, you give yourself carte blanche to smear
> people.
>>
>>>> However it is true that I received some pornographic
>>>> email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources prior to
>>>> 1998.
>>
>>> In your own words Mr. Krueger, "prove it." I find it
>>> extraordinary that only _now_, nearly 9 years later, you
>>> remember these emails.
>>
>> I find it extraordinary that anybody would expect that I
>> kept any proof related to them around this long - but
>> you've done so Atkinson. How do you defend that?
>>
>>>> The sources were, no surprise people who consider
>>>> themseleves subjectivists.
>>
>>> In your own words, Mr. Krueger, "prove it."
>>
>> Asked and answered.
> NO.
>>
>>>> Am I supposed to supress the truth?
>>
>>> I doubt that you even remember what the truth is, Mr.
>>> Krueger, given the falsehoods you repeat so glibly
>>> about me. :-(
>>
>> Come on John. You know that many consider you to be a
>> habitual liar because of the lies and false claims that
>> you glibly publish in that ragazine you edit. It is far
>> from being just me, no matter how much you target me.
>> Your only reasonable defense is that while you've been
>> ethically corrupt over a period of many years, its made
>> you a lot of money. This is of course just my opinion,
>> but it seems to me to be a widely-shared opinon. Besides this whole
>> rotten mess is becoming moot, because
>> listen-at-home audio-only is fading. It was mostly a
>> boomer thing.

> What an extraordinary smear. Arny, you are a really nasty
> guy.

It's simply the way things are, Robert.

"Fella" > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>>I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
>>> your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
>>>instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
>>>you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
>>>been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
>>>listening to information, not MUSIC.
>>
>>
>> Absolutely bizarre.
>
> That one listens to information from a pioneer -> qsc ->lamp cord -> nht
> setup and converts it to music by means of rigorous use of imagination?
> Absolutely agree.
>
>>
>>
>> Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
>> these days.
>
>
> Just whose sockpuppet am I, according to you.
>
I doubt that anybody would want to create a sockpuppet as foolish and nasty
as you are.
>
>> BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can pretend to be
>> extremely rich,
>
> Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not need to be
> extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a pair of sonus faber speakers,
> for instance.. A regular well paying job is more then enough to get all
> these goodies.
>
> BTW: If you think that you can deter me with all this putting words in my
> mouth trading debate bull****, you have another thing coming boy. You know
> very well from past experience that I can virtually beat you to a pulp
> anytime I wish to take you on so watch it!
>

Being more vulgar and telling gigantic lies, while pretending it means
something is not really winning, it's just out grossing.
>
>> Fella can be brave and rich while he hides behind his made-uup alias.
>
> Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences, theories and
> knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT ID CARDS!
>
> My theory explaining as to why you are the abhorrent, repugnant and
> obnoxious little lost soul that you are is that you are deep down, an
> audiophile, a GOLDEN EARED audiophile! But you deny yourself this, be it
> for financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being fooled by the
> non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have ended up listening to a system
> feeding you information pertaining to music that leave you in a constant
> cold and wanting state. You thus get frustrated and you went your anger
> and frustration around here! Simple. Sometimes the simplest of the
> explanations turn out to be true, you know. :)
>
Those are the only ones you seem capable of. Of course you are wrong as
usual.
>>
>> Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does not know about
>> all the live music I listen to.
>
> I know you listen to live music on occasion and that's why I say this:
>
> "Arny found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
> been suspecting all along;"
>
> Yes Arn old boy, all along, deep down inside, you've been nurturing this
> doubt, this deep shadowy suspicion as to what real music is (since you
> *do* hear it on occasion) and how far far away information signals you are
> getting from your stereo system badly disguised as music. This is exactly
> what gets you so frustrated.
>
>>
>>
>> Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know about the many
>> high end audio systems that I've listened to in recent times. Some of
>> them sound pretty good, but none of them sound head-and-shoulders better
>> than a well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.
>
> Yeah, sure. :)
>
Still blaming the ABX test for your inability to hear differences?