question for Middius

[Robert Morein]

You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean is
criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
from the Coffee High End.

Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean is
> criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
> from the Coffee High End.
>
> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?

Sorry, I'm not an espresso hound. Check out alt.coffee and look for a
post from Randy something or other. He has a website with a
comprehensive overview of homemade espresso.

I will tell you that from what I've seen, the pursuit of the perfect
espresso is every bit as obsessive as the search for the perfect audio
system. Much less costly, though, and much more hands-on.

[Clyde Slick]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean
> is criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
> from the Coffee High End.
>

Robert

Maybe your coffee beans are not so good, or not ground fine
enough, or not ground to a consistent size. Do you grind them yourself.
What type of grinder? A burr grinder?

> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>

Pressurized results in consistently good cups of espresso, non pressurized
is less consistent, but a better cup is possible than with pressurized. Non
pressurized requires a more consistently ground finely ground coffee.
My best cups of espresso come from preground Lavazza Il Perfetto Espresso,
which works well in both pressurized and nonpressurized baskets
My machine is a Solis.

http://www.aabreecoffee.com/?CMP=KAC-google

http://www.wholelattelove.com/






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[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
>> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean
>> is
>> criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
>> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
>> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
>> from the Coffee High End.
>>
>> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
>> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>
> Sorry, I'm not an espresso hound. Check out alt.coffee and look for a
> post from Randy something or other. He has a website with a
> comprehensive overview of homemade espresso.
>
> I will tell you that from what I've seen, the pursuit of the perfect
> espresso is every bit as obsessive as the search for the perfect audio
> system. Much less costly, though, and much more hands-on.
>
>

All espresso tastes the same, when tested blind and level matched.



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[[email protected]]

Robert Morein wrote:
> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean is
> criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
> from the Coffee High End.
>
> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
------------------------------------

Starbuck isn't bad coffee, it's much better than gas station coffee,
all things are relative, in audio as in real life.
I use a french press, and like my coffee strong and simple.
I love beer, and have been to belgium and drank it straight from
the trappiste monk's teet, so to speak, and know
good beer, and drink it regularly, but every once in a while,
when I have $7 in cash, I will buy a 12 pack of natural light - in cans
- and enjoy it.
appreciating less than absolute perfection is important, it means you
are human, or sane, or something.

[Robert Morein]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean
>> is criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
>> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
>> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
>> from the Coffee High End.
>>
>
> Robert
>
> Maybe your coffee beans are not so good, or not ground fine
> enough, or not ground to a consistent size. Do you grind them yourself.
> What type of grinder? A burr grinder?
>
It is a Starbucks burr grinder. The finest grind is a talc-like powder,
producing bitter coffee.
Turning the hopper one mark counterclockwise makes the grind slightly
coarser. It seems an improvement.

>> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
>> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>>
> Pressurized results in consistently good cups of espresso, non pressurized
> is less consistent, but a better cup is possible than with pressurized.

This is what I've been reading, but can you provide additional insight into
what "better" means in this context? Less bitter? Sweeter? More kick? I can
only imagine.

> Non pressurized requires a more consistently ground finely ground coffee.

Both of our machines, the Starbucks and the Solis, are actually made by
Saeco. My machine has a 58mm pressurized portafilter. I've been reading
suggestions that I could actually replace the portafilter with a Saeco
nonpressurized one. Do you think this would work?

> My best cups of espresso come from preground Lavazza Il Perfetto Espresso,
> which works well in both pressurized and nonpressurized baskets

Where can it be purchased? You're saying they do a better job grinding than
fresh from a burr grinder? I get the impression that optimally, coffee
should be ground just before use.

> My machine is a Solis.
>
> http://www.aabreecoffee.com/?CMP=KAC-google
>
> http://www.wholelattelove.com/
>

My machine: http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/starbucks_barista
Your machine, one of these?:
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer?Page=10

[Margaret von B.]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean
>>> is criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
>>> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
>>> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am
>>> distant from the Coffee High End.
>>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Maybe your coffee beans are not so good, or not ground fine
>> enough, or not ground to a consistent size. Do you grind them yourself.
>> What type of grinder? A burr grinder?
>>
> It is a Starbucks burr grinder. The finest grind is a talc-like powder,
> producing bitter coffee.
> Turning the hopper one mark counterclockwise makes the grind slightly
> coarser. It seems an improvement.
>
>>> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
>>> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>>>
>> Pressurized results in consistently good cups of espresso, non
>> pressurized
>> is less consistent, but a better cup is possible than with pressurized.
>
> This is what I've been reading, but can you provide additional insight
> into what "better" means in this context? Less bitter? Sweeter? More kick?
> I can only imagine.
>
>> Non pressurized requires a more consistently ground finely ground coffee.
>
> Both of our machines, the Starbucks and the Solis, are actually made by
> Saeco. My machine has a 58mm pressurized portafilter. I've been reading
> suggestions that I could actually replace the portafilter with a Saeco
> nonpressurized one. Do you think this would work?
>
>> My best cups of espresso come from preground Lavazza Il Perfetto
>> Espresso,
>> which works well in both pressurized and nonpressurized baskets
>
> Where can it be purchased? You're saying they do a better job grinding
> than fresh from a burr grinder? I get the impression that optimally,
> coffee should be ground just before use.
>
>> My machine is a Solis.
>>
>> http://www.aabreecoffee.com/?CMP=KAC-google
>>
>> http://www.wholelattelove.com/
>>
>
> My machine: http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/starbucks_barista
> Your machine, one of these?:
> http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer?Page=10
>
>

I have learned from my extensive travels that the best coffee is here.
http://www.metimport.com/metimport/coffee1.php
These people drink more coffee per capita than anyone else in the world by a
wide margin and know what they're doing. Not sexy, not glamorous but simply
the best.

I primarily drink just plain old coffee. As far as machines go I grind my
own beans with my $25 cylindrical Krups grinder and brew it with this:
http://www.krupsusa.com/krups/All+Products/Espresso+Machines/Espresso+coffee+machines/Products/867+Bistro/867+Bistro.htm

I got 2 of them, the second one cost me $100 on closeout.

I also have a $2K+ Jura I got as a business present but I don't really use
it because the Krups makes a better drink. However the Jura looks awesome on
the countertop next to my Wolf dual fuel range. Could pass for a Halcro
monoblock. I guess I'm an aspiring coffee borg. :-)

Cheers,

Margaret

[Clyde Slick]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean
>>> is criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
>>> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
>>> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am
>>> distant from the Coffee High End.
>>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Maybe your coffee beans are not so good, or not ground fine
>> enough, or not ground to a consistent size. Do you grind them yourself.
>> What type of grinder? A burr grinder?
>>
> It is a Starbucks burr grinder. The finest grind is a talc-like powder,
> producing bitter coffee.
> Turning the hopper one mark counterclockwise makes the grind slightly
> coarser. It seems an improvement.
>

The Lavazza is a very fine talc grind, but the taste is not bitter at all.



>>> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
>>> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>>>
>> Pressurized results in consistently good cups of espresso, non
>> pressurized
>> is less consistent, but a better cup is possible than with pressurized.
>
> This is what I've been reading, but can you provide additional insight
> into what "better" means in this context? Less bitter? Sweeter? More kick?
> I can only imagine.


More kick, less bitter and with a thick cremora.

>
>> Non pressurized requires a more consistently ground finely ground coffee.
>
> Both of our machines, the Starbucks and the Solis, are actually made by
> Saeco. My machine has a 58mm pressurized portafilter. I've been reading
> suggestions that I could actually replace the portafilter with a Saeco
> nonpressurized one. Do you think this would work?
>

Yes, I have both types. I use larger double size baskets


>> My best cups of espresso come from preground Lavazza Il Perfetto
>> Espresso,
>> which works well in both pressurized and nonpressurized baskets
>
> Where can it be purchased? You're saying they do a better job grinding
> than fresh from a burr grinder? I get the impression that optimally,
> coffee should be ground just before use.
>

Safeway has it, so does a local Italian grocery.
on line: http://www.perfectcoffeeshop.com/a-B0001GDA9G/Default.aspx


>> My machine is a Solis.
>>
>> http://www.aabreecoffee.com/?CMP=KAC-google
>>
>> http://www.wholelattelove.com/
>>
>
> My machine: http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/starbucks_barista
> Your machine, one of these?:
> http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer?Page=10
>
>

I have a Solis SL-70
http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/solis_sl-70

Is that your Solis?



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[Clyde Slick]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean
>>> is criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
>>> Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
>>> in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am
>>> distant from the Coffee High End.
>>>
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> Maybe your coffee beans are not so good, or not ground fine
>> enough, or not ground to a consistent size. Do you grind them yourself.
>> What type of grinder? A burr grinder?
>>
> It is a Starbucks burr grinder. The finest grind is a talc-like powder,
> producing bitter coffee.
> Turning the hopper one mark counterclockwise makes the grind slightly
> coarser. It seems an improvement.
>
>>> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
>>> nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>>>
>> Pressurized results in consistently good cups of espresso, non
>> pressurized
>> is less consistent, but a better cup is possible than with pressurized.
>
> This is what I've been reading, but can you provide additional insight
> into what "better" means in this context? Less bitter? Sweeter? More kick?
> I can only imagine.
>
>> Non pressurized requires a more consistently ground finely ground coffee.
>
> Both of our machines, the Starbucks and the Solis, are actually made by
> Saeco. My machine has a 58mm pressurized portafilter. I've been reading
> suggestions that I could actually replace the portafilter with a Saeco
> nonpressurized one. Do you think this would work?
>
>> My best cups of espresso come from preground Lavazza Il Perfetto
>> Espresso,
>> which works well in both pressurized and nonpressurized baskets
>
> Where can it be purchased? You're saying they do a better job grinding
> than fresh from a burr grinder? I get the impression that optimally,
> coffee should be ground just before use.
>
>> My machine is a Solis.
>>
>> http://www.aabreecoffee.com/?CMP=KAC-google
>>
>> http://www.wholelattelove.com/
>>
>
> My machine: http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/starbucks_barista
> Your machine, one of these?:
> http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer?Page=10
>
>

One more thing, I tend to make a somewhat larger cup than would be
customary for a double shot. This makes it less bitter, still
very flavorful.

You seem to be using a good grinder, and grinding it fresh.
At this popint I can only qustion the quality of the coffee blend you are
using.
You can alos try using a little bit bigger cup
and letting the machine run alittle longer.
Also, I am assuming you are using distilled water.



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[Lionel]

wrote :


[snip]

> appreciating less than absolute perfection is important, it means you
> are human, or sane, or something.

Very true.

At the opposite snobbish frauds like George Minus Middius fear what brings
them back to their human condition.
Rather than their own taste and appreciation they prefer to refer to the
"overwhelming consensus of the opinion of connoisseurs".
They strongly believe that this place them far above the scrimmage.



--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

[Robert Morein]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
My machine is made by the same parent company, and probably has the same
boiler and portafilter mount, but it appears that Starbucks bought the
rights to the specific packaging.

[snip]
>
> One more thing, I tend to make a somewhat larger cup than would be
> customary for a double shot. This makes it less bitter, still
> very flavorful.
>
I am surprised. I assumed that if one runs more than two ounces through a
basket loaded for two ounces, the result would be more bitter, and less
aromatic. I thought espresso was less bitter than filter coffee because the
water goes through faster.

> You seem to be using a good grinder, and grinding it fresh.
> At this popint I can only qustion the quality of the coffee blend you are
> using.

One comment about my machine that appeared on Coffeegeek.com blamed the
machine itself for bitter coffee. I wonder how this could be.

> You can alos try using a little bit bigger cup
> and letting the machine run alittle longer.
> Also, I am assuming you are using distilled water.
Yes, I am using steam distilled water. Starbucks recommends triple filtered,
but I decided to use steam distilled, on the theory that the parts would
last longer.

[Robert Morein]

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a
>>>> bean is criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got
>>>> myself a Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as
>>>> Starbucks in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that
>>>> I am distant from the Coffee High End.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>> Maybe your coffee beans are not so good, or not ground fine
>>> enough, or not ground to a consistent size. Do you grind them
>>> yourself.
>>> What type of grinder? A burr grinder?
>>>
>> It is a Starbucks burr grinder. The finest grind is a talc-like powder,
>> producing bitter coffee.
>> Turning the hopper one mark counterclockwise makes the grind slightly
>> coarser. It seems an improvement.
>>
>>>> Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters
>>>> vs. nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>>>>
>>> Pressurized results in consistently good cups of espresso, non
>>> pressurized
>>> is less consistent, but a better cup is possible than with pressurized.
>>
>> This is what I've been reading, but can you provide additional insight
>> into what "better" means in this context? Less bitter? Sweeter? More
>> kick? I can only imagine.
>>
>>> Non pressurized requires a more consistently ground finely ground
>>> coffee.
>>
>> Both of our machines, the Starbucks and the Solis, are actually made by
>> Saeco. My machine has a 58mm pressurized portafilter. I've been reading
>> suggestions that I could actually replace the portafilter with a Saeco
>> nonpressurized one. Do you think this would work?
>>
>>> My best cups of espresso come from preground Lavazza Il Perfetto
>>> Espresso,
>>> which works well in both pressurized and nonpressurized baskets
>>
>> Where can it be purchased? You're saying they do a better job grinding
>> than fresh from a burr grinder? I get the impression that optimally,
>> coffee should be ground just before use.
>>
>>> My machine is a Solis.
>>>
>>> http://www.aabreecoffee.com/?CMP=KAC-google
>>>
>>> http://www.wholelattelove.com/
>>>
>>
>> My machine: http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer/starbucks_barista
>> Your machine, one of these?:
>> http://www.coffeegeek.com/reviews/consumer?Page=10
>>
>>
>
> I have learned from my extensive travels that the best coffee is here.
> http://www.metimport.com/metimport/coffee1.php
> These people drink more coffee per capita than anyone else in the world by
> a
> wide margin and know what they're doing. Not sexy, not glamorous but
> simply
> the best.
>
> I primarily drink just plain old coffee. As far as machines go I grind my
> own beans with my $25 cylindrical Krups grinder and brew it with this:
> http://www.krupsusa.com/krups/All+Products/Espresso+Machines/Espresso+coffee+machines/Products/867+Bistro/867+Bistro.htm
>
> I got 2 of them, the second one cost me $100 on closeout.
>
Oh, Marge, this is so declasse'.


> I also have a $2K+ Jura I got as a business present but I don't really use
> it because the Krups makes a better drink.

You can't say such things. My advice: cancel this post. Some things should
never come out :)

However the Jura looks awesome on
> the countertop next to my Wolf dual fuel range. Could pass for a Halcro
> monoblock. I guess I'm an aspiring coffee borg. :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Margaret
>
>
>

[Robert Morein]

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> wrote :
>
>
> [snip]
>
>> appreciating less than absolute perfection is important, it means you
>> are human, or sane, or something.
>
> Very true.
>
> At the opposite snobbish frauds like George Minus Middius fear what brings
> them back to their human condition.
> Rather than their own taste and appreciation they prefer to refer to the
> "overwhelming consensus of the opinion of connoisseurs".
> They strongly believe that this place them far above the scrimmage.
>
Lionel,
Would you please take time out from your rant to explain how the French
drink coffee?

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> Lionel,
> Would you please take time out from your rant to explain how the French
> drink coffee?

Sluttie can't talk now because she has to turn another trick.

[Clyde Slick]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
> My machine is made by the same parent company, and probably has the same
> boiler and portafilter mount, but it appears that Starbucks bought the
> rights to the specific packaging.
>
> [snip]
>>
>> One more thing, I tend to make a somewhat larger cup than would be
>> customary for a double shot. This makes it less bitter, still
>> very flavorful.
>>
> I am surprised. I assumed that if one runs more than two ounces through a
> basket loaded for two ounces, the result would be more bitter, and less
> aromatic. I thought espresso was less bitter than filter coffee because
> the water goes through faster.
>

It doesn't seem to. And it tastes better than adding a bit of hot water.
(Cafe Americana)
Also, I thought you said you had two machines, the other being a Solis.



>> You seem to be using a good grinder, and grinding it fresh.
>> At this popint I can only qustion the quality of the coffee blend you are
>> using.
>
> One comment about my machine that appeared on Coffeegeek.com blamed the
> machine itself for bitter coffee. I wonder how this could be.
>
>> You can alos try using a little bit bigger cup
>> and letting the machine run alittle longer.
>> Also, I am assuming you are using distilled water.
> Yes, I am using steam distilled water. Starbucks recommends triple
> filtered, but I decided to use steam distilled, on the theory that the
> parts would last longer.
>
>



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[Clyde Slick]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
> Lionel,
> Would you please take time out from your rant to explain how the French
> drink coffee?


Probably like we do, through their mouths.



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[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> > Would you please take time out from your rant to explain how the French
> > drink coffee?

> Probably like we do, through their mouths.

That sounds like a setup line. Are you waiting for a rimshot to build
the moment?

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com

> Starbuck isn't bad coffee, it's much better than gas
> station coffee, all things are relative, in audio as in
> real life.

The most serious criminal activity directed towards good coffee beans are
IME performed with a perculator. The good news is that most people who are
poorly informed enough to use a perculator, wouldn't know a good coffee bean
if it bit them in the nose.

> I use a french press, and like my coffee strong and
> simple.

That's what we use, more specifically one of these:

http://www.coffeeam.com/12bocothprl.html

Makes barely enough coffee for two.

[Margaret von B.]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> oups.com
>
>> Starbuck isn't bad coffee, it's much better than gas
>> station coffee, all things are relative, in audio as in
>> real life.
>
> The most serious criminal activity directed towards good coffee beans are
> IME performed with a perculator. The good news is that most people who are
> poorly informed enough to use a perculator, wouldn't know a good coffee
> bean if it bit them in the nose.

http://www.weedcity.com/The_Perculator_Glass_Bong_480_1.htm

This thread was about coffee before you entered the picture.

[Arny Krueger]

"Margaret von B." > wrote in
message

> http://www.weedcity.com/The_Perculator_Glass_Bong_480_1.htm

> This thread was about coffee before I entered the
> picture.

Bragging or complaining, Maggie?

[Margaret von B.]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in
> message
>
>> http://www.weedcity.com/The_Perculator_Glass_Bong_480_1.htm
>
>> This thread was about coffee before I entered the
>> picture.
>
> Bragging or complaining, Maggie?
>

That was extra lame, even for you Arnii. But I actually figured that you
must have been visiting your children lately....

Cheers,

Margaret

[Robert Morein]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
.. .
>
[snip]
>>
>
> It doesn't seem to. And it tastes better than adding a bit of hot water.
> (Cafe Americana)
> Also, I thought you said you had two machines, the other being a Solis.
>
The Solis link was out of curiousity about which one you have. I have only
the Starbucks, made by SAECO.

[Robert Morein]

Finally, a sneak preview of the new ABX comparator:
>
> That's what we use, more specifically one of these:
>
> http://www.coffeeam.com/12bocothprl.html
>
> Makes barely enough coffee for two.

[George M. Middius]

Margaret von B. said:

>> The good news is

> This thread was about coffee before you entered the picture.

Arnii brings his crack-brain religion into *everything*.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> oups.com
>
>> Starbuck isn't bad coffee, it's much better than gas
>> station coffee, all things are relative, in audio as in
>> real life.
>
> The most serious criminal activity directed towards good coffee beans are
> IME performed with a perculator. The good news is that most people who are
> poorly informed enough to use a perculator, wouldn't know a good coffee
> bean if it bit them in the nose.
>
>> I use a french press, and like my coffee strong and
>> simple.
>
> That's what we use, more specifically one of these:
>
> http://www.coffeeam.com/12bocothprl.html
>
> Makes barely enough coffee for two.
>

It says 12 cups, you and your wife must drink a lot of coffee



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[surf]

"Robert Morein" > wrote...
>
> I thought espresso was less bitter than filter coffee because the water
> goes through faster.


Espresso is typically roasted darker. More caramel... less
natural coffee flavor (which isn't as sweet).

[Clyde Slick]

"surf" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote...
>>
>> I thought espresso was less bitter than filter coffee because the water
>> goes through faster.
>
>
> Espresso is typically roasted darker. More caramel... less
> natural coffee flavor (which isn't as sweet).
>

Typically, its a blend of darker French Roast or Italian Roast and two
lighter roasts, but still very full bodied beans, Sumatra and Columbiam
common examples found in Espresso blends..



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[[email protected]]

Robert Morein wrote:
> Finally, a sneak preview of the new ABX comparator:
> >
> > That's what we use, more specifically one of these:
> >
> > http://www.coffeeam.com/12bocothprl.html
> >
> > Makes barely enough coffee for two.


Re aluminium . Aluminium vs. Alzheimer chat has been around almost as
long as coffee causing abnormal heart rhythm. It is a good rule in
contemporary medicine that anything that remains controversial longer
than five years can be safely disregarded. Valuable things become
firmly established long before that- there are thousands of eager
researchers publishinng stuff and seeking glory in hundreds of medical
journals all over the world. So Ms. Von Busen can keep her grinder.
As for espresso I can only talk from personal experience and without
any pretence at objectivity. As Clyde Slick pointed out it is still
waiting for its ABX and balanced output levels. Hard as I tried I
never found anything outside Italy that even compared with the native
Italian espresso, I have no clue what their national secret is but any
small cafe in Florence or Perugia can serve a prime cup. I tried all
the brews available locally and in California but none are a match.
(The best one was made by an Italian in a small local cafe here in
Vancouver- he retired disregarding my likes)
I use Braun grinder at espresso grind setting and Saeca Gran Crema
coffee maker but can only sigh in memoriam of the really good stuff.
Just the same can be said of the French breakfast cafe-au-lait. It is
wonderful and it does not transplant. We can always say the same about
the corn-on- the cob and the hamburger (i mean- they do not not
transplant - should anyone truly yearn to transplant them to Lyon or
Dijon.)
To me Starbucks tastes like dishwater and if anything it gets worse
from year to year. In the usual fashion of advertising agit-prop they
replaced taste with flowery jargon. A hundred kinds of brew and all of
them taste the same.
Sorry Bob Morein. No recipe. If you find one, let me know.
Ludovic Mirabel

[Lionel]

In >, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote :

>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
>> Lionel,
>> Would you please take time out from your rant to explain how the
>> French
>> drink coffee?
>
> Sluttie can't talk now because she has to turn another trick.


Sorry George, I'm straight.

--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

[Lionel]

Robert Morein wrote :

>
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>> wrote :
>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> appreciating less than absolute perfection is important, it means you
>>> are human, or sane, or something.
>>
>> Very true.
>>
>> At the opposite snobbish frauds like George Minus Middius fear what
>> brings them back to their human condition.
>> Rather than their own taste and appreciation they prefer to refer to the
>> "overwhelming consensus of the opinion of connoisseurs".
>> They strongly believe that this place them far above the scrimmage.
>>

> Lionel,
> Would you please take time out from your rant to explain how the
> French
> drink coffee?

Sorry Bob but it'snot my cup of tea... ;-)

I'm not really a coffee amateur.
I'm a little bit ashame to avow that coffee is just my daily amphetamine.

The only souvenir of *coffee* and associated pleasure I have is this
"concentrated solution" that we used to drink on summer in Italy.
Just timid attempts to escape to warmth and farniente.


--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

[Robert Morein]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> Finally, a sneak preview of the new ABX comparator:
>> >
>> > That's what we use, more specifically one of these:
>> >
>> > http://www.coffeeam.com/12bocothprl.html
>> >
>> > Makes barely enough coffee for two.
>
>
> Re aluminium . Aluminium vs. Alzheimer chat has been around almost as
> long as coffee causing abnormal heart rhythm. It is a good rule in
> contemporary medicine that anything that remains controversial longer
> than five years can be safely disregarded.

I agree that it is obvious that aluminum toxicity is not the primary cause
of Alzheimers. However, recall that one time, people were looking for "the
cause" of cancer, which is now known to be one of the great "multivariate"
problems of biology. Such problems tend to require multiple decades to sort
out in their entirety. Aluminum is a neurotoxin; the small intestine ion
pumps are hostile to it, which is why we can consume various forms -- sodium
aluminum phosphate being the most obvious example. But various events can
cause the intestinal wall to be leaky -- alcohol consumption, infection,
possibly even mechanical factors.

In situations like these, I would prefedr to make decisions using "fuzzy
logic." "How much does it cost to remove the risk factor? Would it otherwise
damage my quality of life? Would the replacement raise new questions?" In
the case of elimination of aluminum cookware, the answers favor removal of
the factor.

You have not invoked "airtight logic" (which ironically allows the most
lethal errors!), but rather a rule garnered from historical experience.
This is a good contribution to the decision process, but I would prefer to
involve it in the "fuzzy logic" mix, rather than use it in isolation.

[surf]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote
>
> Typically, its a blend of darker French Roast or Italian Roast and two
> lighter roasts, but still very full bodied beans, Sumatra and Columbiam
> common examples found in Espresso blends..


yer point? as you indicate, espresso is a roast, not an origin of coffee.
the darker one roasts, the more caramel one achieves and the less
natural/origin coffee flavor remains. I believe that is why espresso
tends to taste sweeter than typical light-roasted, drip-brewed coffee.
agree? disagree?

[Clyde Slick]

"surf" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote
>>
>> Typically, its a blend of darker French Roast or Italian Roast and two
>> lighter roasts, but still very full bodied beans, Sumatra and Columbiam
>> common examples found in Espresso blends..
>
>
> yer point? as you indicate, espresso is a roast, not an origin of coffee.
> the darker one roasts, the more caramel one achieves and the less
> natural/origin coffee flavor remains. I believe that is why espresso
> tends to taste sweeter than typical light-roasted, drip-brewed coffee.
> agree? disagree?
>

agree and disagree
I think there is both more sweetness and more coffee flavor



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[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> agree and disagree
> I think there is both more sweetness and more coffee flavor

Your taste buds are misfiring.

[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Clyde Slick said:
>
>> agree and disagree
>> I think there is both more sweetness and more coffee flavor
>
> Your taste buds are misfiring.
>

True, I don't like hearts of artichoke



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[Clyde Slick]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Clyde Slick said:
>
>> agree and disagree
>> I think there is both more sweetness and more coffee flavor
>
> Your taste buds are misfiring.
>

True, I don't like hearts of artichoke




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[[email protected]]

surf wrote:
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote
> >
> > Typically, its a blend of darker French Roast or Italian Roast and two
> > lighter roasts, but still very full bodied beans, Sumatra and Columbiam
> > common examples found in Espresso blends..
>
>
> yer point? as you indicate, espresso is a roast, not an origin of coffee.
> the darker one roasts, the more caramel one achieves and the less
> natural/origin coffee flavor remains. I believe that is why espresso
> tends to taste sweeter than typical light-roasted, drip-brewed coffee.
> agree? disagree?




What Would Jee-zus Drink?

[[email protected]]

Robert Morein wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Robert Morein wrote:
> >> Finally, a sneak preview of the new ABX comparator:
> >> >
> >> > That's what we use, more specifically one of these:
> >> >
> >> > http://www.coffeeam.com/12bocothprl.html
> >> >
> >> > Makes barely enough coffee for two.
> >
> >
> > Re aluminium . Aluminium vs. Alzheimer chat has been around almost as
> > long as coffee causing abnormal heart rhythm. It is a good rule in
> > contemporary medicine that anything that remains controversial longer
> > than five years can be safely disregarded.
>
> I agree that it is obvious that aluminum toxicity is not the primary cause
> of Alzheimers. However, recall that one time, people were looking for "the
> cause" of cancer, which is now known to be one of the great "multivariate"
> problems of biology. Such problems tend to require multiple decades to sort
> out in their entirety. Aluminum is a neurotoxin; the small intestine ion
> pumps are hostile to it, which is why we can consume various forms -- sodium
> aluminum phosphate being the most obvious example. But various events can
> cause the intestinal wall to be leaky -- alcohol consumption, infection,
> possibly even mechanical factors.
>
> In situations like these, I would prefedr to make decisions using "fuzzy
> logic." "How much does it cost to remove the risk factor? Would it otherwise
> damage my quality of life? Would the replacement raise new questions?" In
> the case of elimination of aluminum cookware, the answers favor removal of
> the factor.
>
> You have not invoked "airtight logic" (which ironically allows the most
> lethal errors!), but rather a rule garnered from historical experience.
> This is a good contribution to the decision process, but I would prefer to
> involve it in the "fuzzy logic" mix, rather than use it in isolation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to concede that your preference for avoiding aluminum is
harmless and hard to get disputatious about.
I suppose I'm unconsciouisly motivated by my objections to the
nutrition cranks, Dr. Atkins dieters, antifluoride campaigners and such
like. You obviously are not of that tribe.
Armistice to be followed by non-agression pact.
Ludovic M.

[[email protected]]

I stumbled upon this group again by some horrible mistake, and I am
just astounded to see Middius et al still here (I believe I dropped out
about five years ago). It is devastatingly frightning to think that
these inane arguments about audio have been going on (without me) for
all this time.

Happy New Year, George!

Marc Blank

George M. Middius wrote:
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a bean is
> > criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
> > Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
> > in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am distant
> > from the Coffee High End.
> >
> > Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters vs.
> > nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>
> Sorry, I'm not an espresso hound. Check out alt.coffee and look for a
> post from Randy something or other. He has a website with a
> comprehensive overview of homemade espresso.
>
> I will tell you that from what I've seen, the pursuit of the perfect
> espresso is every bit as obsessive as the search for the perfect audio
> system. Much less costly, though, and much more hands-on.

[[email protected]]

Jesus Christ, Arny, you're still here too?? It's mind-boggling!

Marc Blank

[Clyde Slick]

> wrote in message
ups.com...

> George M. Middius wrote:
>> Robert Morein said:
>>
>> > You recently denigrated Starbucks, remarking that what they do to a
>> > bean is
>> > criminal. Unfortunately, what I do to a bean is worse. I got myself a
>> > Starbucks Barista machine, which makes coffee not as good as Starbucks
>> > in-store coffee. It still makes me happy, yet I realize that I am
>> > distant
>> > from the Coffee High End.
>> >
>> > Are you familiar with espresso issues, ie., pressurized portafilters
>> > vs.
>> > nonpressurized, how to avoid bitter shots, etc. ?
>>
>> Sorry, I'm not an espresso hound. Check out alt.coffee and look for a
>> post from Randy something or other. He has a website with a
>> comprehensive overview of homemade espresso.
>>
>> I will tell you that from what I've seen, the pursuit of the perfect
>> espresso is every bit as obsessive as the search for the perfect audio
>> system. Much less costly, though, and much more hands-on.
>




>I stumbled upon this group again by some horrible mistake, and I am
> just astounded to see Middius et al still here (I believe I dropped out
> about five years ago). It is devastatingly frightning to think that
> these inane arguments about audio have been going on (without me) for
> all this time.
>
> Happy New Year, George!
>
> Marc Blank
>


what do you do for espresso?



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[Clyde Slick]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Jesus Christ, Arny, you're still here too?? It's mind-boggling!
>
> Marc Blank
>

Give credit where credit is due.
He stopped trolling with Nate a few years ago,
and it has been "at least" six months since he last accused
one of his 'sockpuppet' 'enemies' of sending hem kiddie porn



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[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>I stumbled upon this group again by some horrible mistake, and I am
> just astounded to see Middius et al still here (I believe I dropped out
> about five years ago). It is devastatingly frightning to think that
> these inane arguments about audio have been going on (without me) for
> all this time.

Yes, Middius is still doing all he can to bring the level of discussion down
to the middle school level.

> Happy New Year, George!

> Marc Blank

Hi Marc!

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ups.com...

> Jesus Christ, Arny, you're still here too?? It's mind-boggling!

I drop in from time to time to feed the animals. I mostly post elsewhere -
my audio hobby has largely turned to live sound and recording.

[paul packer]

On 10 Jan 2006 20:42:08 -0800, wrote:

>I stumbled upon this group again by some horrible mistake, and I am
>just astounded to see Middius et al still here (I believe I dropped out
>about five years ago). It is devastatingly frightning to think that
>these inane arguments about audio have been going on (without me) for
>all this time.

The truly frightening thing is that George and Arnie have about
equal--and seemingly limitless-- persistence and resilience. I'm
reminded of the plot of a film I actually hated---Highlander--where
implacable enemies battle each other through centuries and lifetimes.
Hundreds of years from now, in another lifetime, you may come across a
similar endless battle on a future NG and have a vague sense of deja
vu without ever realizing the terrible truth.

Poor George.

Poor Arnie.

[paul packer]

On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:42:50 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>> Jesus Christ, Arny, you're still here too?? It's mind-boggling!
>
>I drop in from time to time to feed the animals.

Tell the truth, Arnie. You look in to see if anyone's disagreed with
you. it's an obsession.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On 10 Jan 2006 20:42:08 -0800, wrote:
>
>>I stumbled upon this group again by some horrible mistake, and I am
>>just astounded to see Middius et al still here (I believe I dropped out
>>about five years ago). It is devastatingly frightning to think that
>>these inane arguments about audio have been going on (without me) for
>>all this time.
>
> The truly frightening thing is that George and Arnie have about
> equal--and seemingly limitless-- persistence and resilience.

Not at all. George is a late-comer and takes the easy path of making
childish and irrelevant posts.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:42:50 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>>
>>> Jesus Christ, Arny, you're still here too?? It's mind-boggling!
>>
>>I drop in from time to time to feed the animals.
>
> Tell the truth, Arnie. You look in to see if anyone's disagreed with
> you. it's an obsession.

Not at all. People disagree with me here all the time, and often I just
ignore them. For example, I systematically ignore all of Weil's posts, and
have done so for years. I ignore a large percentage of George's and Art's
posts.

Contrary to your ego-centric view of life Paul, RAO is not much of an
interest of mine any more. I really don't put that much effort into
discussing DBTs and "Great debate" issues. No Golden ear has said anything
new or interesting in those areas for years.

[dave weil]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:56:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>Not at all. People disagree with me here all the time, and often I just
>ignore them. For example, I systematically ignore all of Weil's posts, and
>have done so for years.

Well, over a year, perhaps.

I guess the fear was just too great, especially after getting your
butt kicked regularly...

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 11 Jan 2006 06:42:50 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
> wrote in message
ups.com...
>>>
>>>> Jesus Christ, Arny, you're still here too?? It's mind-boggling!
>>>
>>>I drop in from time to time to feed the animals.
>>
>> Tell the truth, Arnie. You look in to see if anyone's disagreed with
>> you. it's an obsession.
>
> Not at all. People disagree with me here all the time, and often I just
> ignore them. For example, I systematically ignore all of Weil's posts, and
> have done so for years. I ignore a large percentage of George's and Art's
> posts.
>
> Contrary to your ego-centric view of life Paul, RAO is not much of an
> interest of mine any more. I really don't put that much effort into
> discussing DBTs and "Great debate" issues. No Golden ear has said anything
> new or interesting in those areas for years.

IT's so simple, DBT's are stupid on the face of it
AS far as arguments go, been there, done that!



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[paul packer]

On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:56:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:


>Contrary to your ego-centric view of life Paul, RAO is not much of an
>interest of mine any more. I really don't put that much effort into
>discussing DBTs and "Great debate" issues. No Golden ear has said anything
>new or interesting in those areas for years.

Not sure what my egocentricity has to do with it, but I'm not
surprised you've tired of the game. How long has it been now that
you've been sparring with the same people about the same things in the
same way? Even small children tire of repetition eventually.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 08:56:20 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Contrary to your ego-centric view of life Paul, RAO is not much of an
>>interest of mine any more. I really don't put that much effort into
>>discussing DBTs and "Great debate" issues. No Golden ear has said anything
>>new or interesting in those areas for years.

> Not sure what my egocentricity has to do with it, but I'm not
> surprised you've tired of the game. How long has it been now that
> you've been sparring with the same people about the same things in the
> same way?

My last major change of tactics was building www.pcabx.com which continues
to be massivly sucessful. That was about 4 years ago.

> Even small children tire of repetition eventually.

Why mess with success?