What drives Arny to lie?

[Robert Morein]

With the exception of McCarty, I have never seen such an example of a
compulsive sociopath.
Any theories as to why this might be?

[Pooh Bear]

Robert Morein wrote:

I've never known Arny to *lie*.

He's pretty reliable as far as I'm concerned. He knows a damn sight more
about audio than most contributors here.

Graham

[Arny Krueger]

"Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
> I've never known Arny to *lie*.
>
> He's pretty reliable as far as I'm concerned. He knows a damn sight more
> about audio than most contributors here.

Thanks for the assist Graham, but you really have to understand Morein's
situation.

He's been caught in many lies, some of which regrettably terminated his
academic career.

Given that he was at the time, a 50-year-old college student with no other
professional experience, the acute nature of his situation should be clear.

I suspect that he posts from a confined situation, as it were.

Truely sad.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> Robert Morein wrote:
>>
>> I've never known Arny to *lie*.
>>
>> He's pretty reliable as far as I'm concerned. He knows a damn sight more
>> about audio than most contributors here.
>
> Thanks for the assist Graham, but you really have to understand Morein's
> situation.
>
> He's been caught in many lies, some of which regrettably terminated his
> academic career.
>
> Given that he was at the time, a 50-year-old college student with no other
> professional experience, the acute nature of his situation should be
> clear.
>
Now we have a clear case of a lie.
I have ample "professional experience."
Arny will respond by saying, "prove it", to which I respond with the
following:

You have made a statement that is either true or untrue about me. If a
person made a statement about another person that was not true, then in a
libel case, the person who made the statement is liable, regardless of
whether the subject person denied or affirmed the statement.

In other words,
I do not have to reveal on this forum what my professional experience is for
you to lie about it. It is a dirty debating tactic to assert as truth about
a person what you do not know. In fact, it is a lie. Now, what about the
status of your NAMBLA membership. Would you care to deny that you are, or
have ever been, a member of NAMBLA? Refer to the preceding discussion, for
guidance, if you like.

Now, returning to audio, Arny provides the following link:
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/5532.htm, the website of one
Douglas Self, who has a webpage on the 5532, with a nice drafting paper
background. Apparently, Mr. Self likes the 5532. However, regardless of Mr.
Self's professional experience, there are many people in the world who
dislike the 5532, which is one of the reasons so many equipment mods are
offered to replace it.

Now, it is possible that the 5532 is a good device when used in a limited
fashion. I do use it, in a limited fashion. Certainly, it is ubiquitous. But
I have noted on many occasions that 5532 outputs sound strained in
comparison to discrete outputs. When I turn the gain up past approximately
unity, on the numerous pieces I have in my collection, there is a
deterioration in sound quality. I have found that, subjectively, this is
completely avoidable by buffering with a preamp that has a discrete output
stage. The more gain an opamp is required to provide, the lower the loop
feedback, and the higher distortion. Another consideration is the length of
cable used between the preamp and the amplifier.

I said that Arny lied. Perhaps what I should have said is that he used a
dirty debating tactic, which is simply a sophisticated form of lying. One
individual of significant reputation remarked to me that Arny is the most
intellectually dishonest person he has ever met. I concur in this.

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >>
> >> Robert Morein wrote:
> >>
> >> I've never known Arny to *lie*.
> >>
> >> He's pretty reliable as far as I'm concerned. He knows a damn sight more
> >> about audio than most contributors here.
> >
> > Thanks for the assist Graham, but you really have to understand Morein's
> > situation.
> >
> > He's been caught in many lies, some of which regrettably terminated his
> > academic career.
> >
> > Given that he was at the time, a 50-year-old college student with no other
> > professional experience, the acute nature of his situation should be
> > clear.
> >
> Now we have a clear case of a lie.
> I have ample "professional experience."
> Arny will respond by saying, "prove it", to which I respond with the
> following:
>
> You have made a statement that is either true or untrue about me.
>If a
> person made a statement about another person that was not true,

Since we can't get past the truth or lack of it the rest of your
argument is moot.

> then in a
> libel case, the person who made the statement is liable, regardless of
> whether the subject person denied or affirmed the statement.
>
> In other words,
> I do not have to reveal on this forum what my professional experience is for
> you to lie about it.

No... you don't. But you do if you want to prove that he lied..
which apparently you don't.

>It is a dirty debating tactic to assert as truth about
> a person what you do not know. In fact, it is a lie.

Unknown = lie.... some interesting albeit insane logic. With no
additional data Arny has a 50/50 chance of being correct.

> Now, what about the
> status of your NAMBLA membership. Would you care to deny that you are, or
> have ever been, a member of NAMBLA? Refer to the preceding discussion, for
> guidance, if you like.

Apparently you'd like to imply that Arny is a member yet without
actual knowledge, by your own logic, you'd be lying. But... if you're
not a liar...then you must have knowledge...and then the question comes
up... how do you have knowledge of NAMBLA memebership?

>
> Now, returning to audio, Arny provides the following link:
> http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/5532.htm, the website of one
> Douglas Self, who has a webpage on the 5532, with a nice drafting paper
> background. Apparently, Mr. Self likes the 5532. However, regardless of Mr.
> Self's professional experience, there are many people in the world who
> dislike the 5532, which is one of the reasons so many equipment mods are
> offered to replace it.
>
> Now, it is possible that the 5532 is a good device when used in a limited
> fashion. I do use it, in a limited fashion. Certainly, it is ubiquitous. But
> I have noted on many occasions that 5532 outputs sound strained in
> comparison to discrete outputs. When I turn the gain up past approximately
> unity, on the numerous pieces I have in my collection, there is a
> deterioration in sound quality.

I would suggest the vast majority of users of this device have no gain
control at this stage of their systems.
It seems you have put together a system with poorly matched I/O
characteristics requiring your source to drive loads at levels it can't
handle requiring additional stages of circuitry.

A workable solution after you've found yourself in a picke... but it
certainly doesn't warrant you recommend that other people make the same
stupid mistake you did in putting together their systems.

ScottW

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...

It appears that Morien hopes that I'm a fellow member of his favorite
organization:

> Now, what about the status of your NAMBLA membership. Would you care to
> deny that you are, or have ever been, a member of NAMBLA?

I'm very happy to deny any connection with NAMBLA. It's just one of your
trashy debating trade tricks Morein, to bring such an irrelevant thing up at
this time.


> Now, returning to audio, Arny provides the following link:
> http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/5532.htm, the website of one
> Douglas Self, who has a webpage on the 5532, with a nice drafting paper
> background. Apparently, Mr. Self likes the 5532.

Actually, he merely presents conclusive objective evidence that the 5532 is
one of the cleaner op amp chips in the audio world.

> However, regardless of Mr. Self's professional experience, there are many
> people in the world who dislike the 5532, which is one of the reasons so
> many equipment mods are offered to replace it.

Letsee, on the anti 5532 side there's that starship trooper Jon Risch,

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/catch-1.htm

Then there is that other lord of the flames Robert Morein.

OTOH, there are 100's of high end consumer and studio audio manufacturers
that proudly use the chip.



> Now, it is possible that the 5532 is a good device when used in a limited
> fashion. I do use it, in a limited fashion. Certainly, it is ubiquitous.
> But I have noted on many occasions that 5532 outputs sound strained in
> comparison to discrete outputs.

Mere hysterical rantings of someone who eschews bias controls in his
listening tests.

>When I turn the gain up past approximately unity, on the numerous pieces I
>have in my collection, there is a deterioration in sound quality. I have
>found that, subjectively, this is completely avoidable by buffering with a
>preamp that has a discrete output stage. The more gain an opamp is required
>to provide, the lower the loop feedback, and the higher distortion. Another
>consideration is the length of cable used between the preamp and the
>amplifier.

See former comment about Morein's inability to test op amps in a believable
fashion.

> I said that Arny lied. Perhaps what I should have said is that he used a
> dirty debating tactic, which is simply a sophisticated form of lying. One
> individual of significant reputation remarked to me that Arny is the most
> intellectually dishonest person he has ever met. I concur in this.

What I did was very simple - I presented reliable facts from a recognized
independent authority.

Did I mention that 5532s are widely used in pro audio equipment including
Neve consoles? They are good enough for Dolby, Neve, Rane, and etc., but
not good enough for Morein.

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Pooh Bear" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Robert Morein wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I've never known Arny to *lie*.
>> >>
>> >> He's pretty reliable as far as I'm concerned. He knows a damn sight
>> >> more
>> >> about audio than most contributors here.
>> >
>> > Thanks for the assist Graham, but you really have to understand
>> > Morein's
>> > situation.
>> >
>> > He's been caught in many lies, some of which regrettably terminated his
>> > academic career.
>> >
>> > Given that he was at the time, a 50-year-old college student with no
>> > other
>> > professional experience, the acute nature of his situation should be
>> > clear.
>> >
>> Now we have a clear case of a lie.
>> I have ample "professional experience."
>> Arny will respond by saying, "prove it", to which I respond with the
>> following:
>>
>> You have made a statement that is either true or untrue about me.
>>If a
>> person made a statement about another person that was not true,
>
> Since we can't get past the truth or lack of it the rest of your
> argument is moot.
>
>> then in a
>> libel case, the person who made the statement is liable, regardless of
>> whether the subject person denied or affirmed the statement.
>>
>> In other words,
>> I do not have to reveal on this forum what my professional experience is
>> for
>> you to lie about it.
>
> No... you don't. But you do if you want to prove that he lied..
> which apparently you don't.
>
>>It is a dirty debating tactic to assert as truth about
>> a person what you do not know. In fact, it is a lie.
>
> Unknown = lie.... some interesting albeit insane logic. With no
> additional data Arny has a 50/50 chance of being correct.
>
>> Now, what about the
>> status of your NAMBLA membership. Would you care to deny that you are, or
>> have ever been, a member of NAMBLA? Refer to the preceding discussion,
>> for
>> guidance, if you like.
>
> Apparently you'd like to imply that Arny is a member yet without
> actual knowledge, by your own logic, you'd be lying. But... if you're
> not a liar...then you must have knowledge...and then the question comes
> up... how do you have knowledge of NAMBLA memebership?
>
>>
>> Now, returning to audio, Arny provides the following link:
>> http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/5532.htm, the website of one
>> Douglas Self, who has a webpage on the 5532, with a nice drafting paper
>> background. Apparently, Mr. Self likes the 5532. However, regardless of
>> Mr.
>> Self's professional experience, there are many people in the world who
>> dislike the 5532, which is one of the reasons so many equipment mods are
>> offered to replace it.
>>
>> Now, it is possible that the 5532 is a good device when used in a limited
>> fashion. I do use it, in a limited fashion. Certainly, it is ubiquitous.
>> But
>> I have noted on many occasions that 5532 outputs sound strained in
>> comparison to discrete outputs. When I turn the gain up past
>> approximately
>> unity, on the numerous pieces I have in my collection, there is a
>> deterioration in sound quality.
>
> I would suggest the vast majority of users of this device have no gain
> control at this stage of their systems.
> It seems you have put together a system with poorly matched I/O
> characteristics requiring your source to drive loads at levels it can't
> handle requiring additional stages of circuitry.
>
> A workable solution after you've found yourself in a picke... but it
> certainly doesn't warrant you recommend that other people make the same
> stupid mistake you did in putting together their systems.

Scott, don't be intolerant. People have diverse goals in constructing their
systems. Without knowing all the particulars, it is intolerant of you to
condemn choices different from your own.

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> >
> > I would suggest the vast majority of users of this device have no gain
> > control at this stage of their systems.
> > It seems you have put together a system with poorly matched I/O
> > characteristics requiring your source to drive loads at levels it can't
> > handle requiring additional stages of circuitry.
> >
> > A workable solution after you've found yourself in a picke... but it
> > certainly doesn't warrant you recommend that other people make the same
> > stupid mistake you did in putting together their systems.
>
> Scott, don't be intolerant. People have diverse goals in constructing their
> systems.

True... but I've never heard someone say their goal is to find a way
to make incompatible components work together.

>Without knowing all the particulars, it is intolerant of you to
> condemn choices different from your own.

Sure Bob, let's all be tolerant of poor choices. Remember that next
time you feel the urge to go off on Mikey.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> >
>> > I would suggest the vast majority of users of this device have no gain
>> > control at this stage of their systems.
>> > It seems you have put together a system with poorly matched I/O
>> > characteristics requiring your source to drive loads at levels it can't
>> > handle requiring additional stages of circuitry.
>> >
>> > A workable solution after you've found yourself in a picke... but it
>> > certainly doesn't warrant you recommend that other people make the same
>> > stupid mistake you did in putting together their systems.
>>
>> Scott, don't be intolerant. People have diverse goals in constructing
>> their
>> systems.
>
> True... but I've never heard someone say their goal is to find a way
> to make incompatible components work together.
>
>>Without knowing all the particulars, it is intolerant of you to
>> condemn choices different from your own.
>
> Sure Bob, let's all be tolerant of poor choices. Remember that next
> time you feel the urge to go off on Mikey.
>
> ScottW
>
Scott, your dogmatic attitude is typical of what some call the "borgs".
These are not poor choices; they are individual choices.
Try not to be so intolerant.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> It appears that Morien hopes that I'm a fellow member of his favorite
> organization:
>
>> Now, what about the status of your NAMBLA membership. Would you care to
>> deny that you are, or have ever been, a member of NAMBLA?
>
> I'm very happy to deny any connection with NAMBLA. It's just one of your
> trashy debating trade tricks Morein, to bring such an irrelevant thing up
> at this time.
>
>
>> Now, returning to audio, Arny provides the following link:
>> http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/webbop/5532.htm, the website of one
>> Douglas Self, who has a webpage on the 5532, with a nice drafting paper
>> background. Apparently, Mr. Self likes the 5532.
>
> Actually, he merely presents conclusive objective evidence that the 5532
> is one of the cleaner op amp chips in the audio world.
>
>> However, regardless of Mr. Self's professional experience, there are many
>> people in the world who dislike the 5532, which is one of the reasons so
>> many equipment mods are offered to replace it.
>
> Letsee, on the anti 5532 side there's that starship trooper Jon Risch,
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/catch-1.htm
>
> Then there is that other lord of the flames Robert Morein.
>
> OTOH, there are 100's of high end consumer and studio audio manufacturers
> that proudly use the chip.
>
>
>
>> Now, it is possible that the 5532 is a good device when used in a limited
>> fashion. I do use it, in a limited fashion. Certainly, it is ubiquitous.
>> But I have noted on many occasions that 5532 outputs sound strained in
>> comparison to discrete outputs.
>
> Mere hysterical rantings of someone who eschews bias controls in his
> listening tests.

Arny, you overuse the word "hysteria". Not surprising, that a paranoid sicko
like yourself would try to indict others with what you suffer from on a
daily basis.

>
>>When I turn the gain up past approximately unity, on the numerous pieces I
>>have in my collection, there is a deterioration in sound quality. I have
>>found that, subjectively, this is completely avoidable by buffering with a
>>preamp that has a discrete output stage. The more gain an opamp is
>>required to provide, the lower the loop feedback, and the higher
>>distortion. Another consideration is the length of cable used between the
>>preamp and the amplifier.
>
> See former comment about Morein's inability to test op amps in a
> believable fashion.

I heard, I decided, I implemented, I heard again, and I was satisfied.

>
>> I said that Arny lied. Perhaps what I should have said is that he used a
>> dirty debating tactic, which is simply a sophisticated form of lying. One
>> individual of significant reputation remarked to me that Arny is the most
>> intellectually dishonest person he has ever met. I concur in this.
>
> What I did was very simple - I presented reliable facts from a recognized
> independent authority.

Arny, not everyone recognizes your "authorities".
Mr. Self is entitled to his opinion.
I am entitled to my opinion.
You, on the other hand, are entitled to be identified as the sicko you are.
>
> Did I mention that 5532s are widely used in pro audio equipment including
> Neve consoles? They are good enough for Dolby, Neve, Rane, and etc., but
> not good enough for Morein.
>
Yes. We don't like a lot of pro recording equipment. Such equipment is
famous for the production of mediocre CDs.

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Robert Morein wrote:
> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I would suggest the vast majority of users of this device have no gain
> >> > control at this stage of their systems.
> >> > It seems you have put together a system with poorly matched I/O
> >> > characteristics requiring your source to drive loads at levels it can't
> >> > handle requiring additional stages of circuitry.
> >> >
> >> > A workable solution after you've found yourself in a picke... but it
> >> > certainly doesn't warrant you recommend that other people make the same
> >> > stupid mistake you did in putting together their systems.
> >>
> >> Scott, don't be intolerant. People have diverse goals in constructing
> >> their
> >> systems.
> >
> > True... but I've never heard someone say their goal is to find a way
> > to make incompatible components work together.
> >
> >>Without knowing all the particulars, it is intolerant of you to
> >> condemn choices different from your own.
> >
> > Sure Bob, let's all be tolerant of poor choices. Remember that next
> > time you feel the urge to go off on Mikey.
> >
> > ScottW
> >
> Scott, your dogmatic attitude is typical of what some call the "borgs".
> These are not poor choices; they are individual choices.
> Try not to be so intolerant.

So we only get to express positive opinions now Bob? Get a
clue... you made some poor choices and had to patch it. No crime in
that... but I think you'd better serve the group by recommending people
avoid your mistakes rather than pushing your patches.

You seem to have an Arny like aversion to admitting you made a mistake
Bob.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Robert Morein wrote:
>> >> "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> >> ups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > I would suggest the vast majority of users of this device have no
>> >> > gain
>> >> > control at this stage of their systems.
>> >> > It seems you have put together a system with poorly matched I/O
>> >> > characteristics requiring your source to drive loads at levels it
>> >> > can't
>> >> > handle requiring additional stages of circuitry.
>> >> >
>> >> > A workable solution after you've found yourself in a picke... but it
>> >> > certainly doesn't warrant you recommend that other people make the
>> >> > same
>> >> > stupid mistake you did in putting together their systems.
>> >>
>> >> Scott, don't be intolerant. People have diverse goals in constructing
>> >> their
>> >> systems.
>> >
>> > True... but I've never heard someone say their goal is to find a way
>> > to make incompatible components work together.
>> >
>> >>Without knowing all the particulars, it is intolerant of you to
>> >> condemn choices different from your own.
>> >
>> > Sure Bob, let's all be tolerant of poor choices. Remember that next
>> > time you feel the urge to go off on Mikey.
>> >
>> > ScottW
>> >
>> Scott, your dogmatic attitude is typical of what some call the "borgs".
>> These are not poor choices; they are individual choices.
>> Try not to be so intolerant.
>
> So we only get to express positive opinions now Bob? Get a
> clue... you made some poor choices and had to patch it. No crime in
> that... but I think you'd better serve the group by recommending people
> avoid your mistakes rather than pushing your patches.
>
> You seem to have an Arny like aversion to admitting you made a mistake
> Bob.
>
I think that most people have such an aversion, Scott. You made a mistake
when you decided to be an intolerant, nasty sonofabitch. Some day you'll
regret it.