Idler drive turntables are superior to belt & direct drive

[Robert Morein]

Most people on this group are probably familiar with the concept of idler
wheel turntable drive. In this method, the circumferential surface of a
perfectly round wheel is coated with a compliant, elastic material, such as
rubber, having a high coefficient of friction. Solenoidal or lever actuation
of the wheel causes completion of a torque circuit between either a four
pole shadow motor, or, in high end equipment, an AC synchronous motor that
takes advantage of the inherent stability of the AC line. When the turntable
circumferential edge, the motor drive wheel, and the idler wheel are
machined with diamond tooled NC machinery, with final chamfering by an
experienced craftsman, the result can be said to be head and shoulders above
both belt and direct drive methods. Furthermore, the inherent simplicity of
the design permits user maintenance of virtually all aspects of the
instrument.

Stellar examples of this technique still exist in the rare and valued
members of the Garrard SL series, which embody both the highest tradition of
British craftsmanship, and a satisfying gleam and polish that strikes the
eye at virtually any angle. Even without the wonderment of the dual gimbal
suspension, the virtues would be inimitable. The dual gimbal suspension
elevates the highest member of this line, the Garrard SL95, to that of a
work of art.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:20:24 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> wrote:

>Most people on this group are probably familiar with the concept of idler
>wheel turntable drive. In this method, the circumferential surface of a
>perfectly round wheel is coated with a compliant, elastic material, such as
>rubber, having a high coefficient of friction. Solenoidal or lever actuation
>of the wheel causes completion of a torque circuit between either a four
>pole shadow motor, or, in high end equipment, an AC synchronous motor that
>takes advantage of the inherent stability of the AC line. When the turntable
>circumferential edge, the motor drive wheel, and the idler wheel are
>machined with diamond tooled NC machinery, with final chamfering by an
>experienced craftsman, the result can be said to be head and shoulders above
>both belt and direct drive methods. Furthermore, the inherent simplicity of
>the design permits user maintenance of virtually all aspects of the
>instrument.
>
>Stellar examples of this technique still exist in the rare and valued
>members of the Garrard SL series, which embody both the highest tradition of
>British craftsmanship, and a satisfying gleam and polish that strikes the
>eye at virtually any angle. Even without the wonderment of the dual gimbal
>suspension, the virtues would be inimitable. The dual gimbal suspension
>elevates the highest member of this line, the Garrard SL95, to that of a
>work of art.
>
>

Gasbag.

[ScottW]

Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:20:24 -0500, "Robert Morein"
> > wrote:
>
> >Most people on this group are probably familiar with the concept of idler
> >wheel turntable drive. In this method, the circumferential surface of a
> >perfectly round wheel is coated with a compliant, elastic material, such as
> >rubber, having a high coefficient of friction. Solenoidal or lever actuation
> >of the wheel causes completion of a torque circuit between either a four
> >pole shadow motor, or, in high end equipment, an AC synchronous motor that
> >takes advantage of the inherent stability of the AC line. When the turntable
> >circumferential edge, the motor drive wheel, and the idler wheel are
> >machined with diamond tooled NC machinery, with final chamfering by an
> >experienced craftsman, the result can be said to be head and shoulders above
> >both belt and direct drive methods. Furthermore, the inherent simplicity of
> >the design permits user maintenance of virtually all aspects of the
> >instrument.
> >
> >Stellar examples of this technique still exist in the rare and valued
> >members of the Garrard SL series, which embody both the highest tradition of
> >British craftsmanship, and a satisfying gleam and polish that strikes the
> >eye at virtually any angle. Even without the wonderment of the dual gimbal
> >suspension, the virtues would be inimitable. The dual gimbal suspension
> >elevates the highest member of this line, the Garrard SL95, to that of a
> >work of art.
> >
> >
>
> Gasbag.

My sentiments exactly. "....the result can be said...." Robert
is proof that sadly, anything can be said.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:20:24 -0500, "Robert Morein"
>> > wrote:
>>
Interesting that such a simple methodology is unchallengable.

I conclude that the argument has been settled in favor of idler drive
turntables.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On 5 Dec 2005 14:48:29 -0800, "ScottW" > wrote:

>
>Goofball_star_dot_etal wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Dec 2005 15:20:24 -0500, "Robert Morein"
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >Most people on this group are probably familiar with the concept of idler
>> >wheel turntable drive. In this method, the circumferential surface of a
>> >perfectly round wheel is coated with a compliant, elastic material, such as
>> >rubber, having a high coefficient of friction. Solenoidal or lever actuation
>> >of the wheel causes completion of a torque circuit between either a four
>> >pole shadow motor, or, in high end equipment, an AC synchronous motor that
>> >takes advantage of the inherent stability of the AC line. When the turntable
>> >circumferential edge, the motor drive wheel, and the idler wheel are
>> >machined with diamond tooled NC machinery, with final chamfering by an
>> >experienced craftsman, the result can be said to be head and shoulders above
>> >both belt and direct drive methods. Furthermore, the inherent simplicity of
>> >the design permits user maintenance of virtually all aspects of the
>> >instrument.
>> >
>> >Stellar examples of this technique still exist in the rare and valued
>> >members of the Garrard SL series, which embody both the highest tradition of
>> >British craftsmanship, and a satisfying gleam and polish that strikes the
>> >eye at virtually any angle. Even without the wonderment of the dual gimbal
>> >suspension, the virtues would be inimitable. The dual gimbal suspension
>> >elevates the highest member of this line, the Garrard SL95, to that of a
>> >work of art.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Gasbag.
>
> My sentiments exactly. "....the result can be said...." Robert
>is proof that sadly, anything can be said.
>
>ScottW

In Wales we call them wheelio rwber.

[.]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 23:09:54 +0000, Goofball_star_dot_etal
> wrote:

>On 5 Dec 2005 15:06:08 -0800, "Bret Ludwig" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Robert Morein wrote:
>><<snip>>
>>> Interesting that such a simple methodology is unchallengable.
>>>
>>> I conclude that the argument has been settled in favor of idler drive
>>> turntables.
>>
>> The Garrard tables as well as the Russcos and other DJ battleaxes of
>>old were idler drive, and worked pretty well until the rubber parts got
>>flat-spotted. Correctly set up with new rubber they are charming
>>antiques and work halfway decently, but no one in their right mind
>
>You're getting warm now.
>
>>would take a Garrard over a LP12 for sound quality.


depends on the linn...they vary....

at their best the Linn wins, but the garrard is a more consistent
performer..the garrard generally has lower bass but what is there
lacks definition..i.e. it's muddy....
a decent vpi belt drive blows the garrard away every time.

I've owned all three and done numerous a/b's with the same arm and
cartridge over a 6 month period.

The garrard was good when you get it for a bargain , add a nice bass
to it and arm and cartridge, but all the talk of stuff like that has
pushed the general cost of one to unrealistic levels in price.

[Bret Ludwig]

Robert Morein wrote:
<<snip>>
> Interesting that such a simple methodology is unchallengable.
>
> I conclude that the argument has been settled in favor of idler drive
> turntables.

The Garrard tables as well as the Russcos and other DJ battleaxes of
old were idler drive, and worked pretty well until the rubber parts got
flat-spotted. Correctly set up with new rubber they are charming
antiques and work halfway decently, but no one in their right mind
would take a Garrard over a LP12 for sound quality.

[Goofball_star_dot_etal]

On 5 Dec 2005 15:06:08 -0800, "Bret Ludwig" >
wrote:

>
>Robert Morein wrote:
><<snip>>
>> Interesting that such a simple methodology is unchallengable.
>>
>> I conclude that the argument has been settled in favor of idler drive
>> turntables.
>
> The Garrard tables as well as the Russcos and other DJ battleaxes of
>old were idler drive, and worked pretty well until the rubber parts got
>flat-spotted. Correctly set up with new rubber they are charming
>antiques and work halfway decently, but no one in their right mind

You're getting warm now.

>would take a Garrard over a LP12 for sound quality.

"Bret Ludwig" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
> <<snip>>
>> Interesting that such a simple methodology is unchallengable.
>>
>> I conclude that the argument has been settled in favor of idler drive
>> turntables.
>
> The Garrard tables as well as the Russcos and other DJ battleaxes of
> old were idler drive, and worked pretty well until the rubber parts got
> flat-spotted. Correctly set up with new rubber they are charming
> antiques and work halfway decently, but no one in their right mind
> would take a Garrard over a LP12 for sound quality.
>
Hold on to that thought. No one in their right mind.

[Lionel]

In . com>, ScottW wrote :

> Robert
> is proof that sadly, anything can be said.

ScottW has his second illumination of the day...
Scott are you sure that your diet isn't too much severe ?



--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

"Bret Ludwig" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Robert Morein wrote:
> <<snip>>
>> Interesting that such a simple methodology is unchallengable.
>>
>> I conclude that the argument has been settled in favor of idler drive
>> turntables.
>
> The Garrard tables as well as the Russcos and other DJ battleaxes of
> old were idler drive, and worked pretty well until the rubber parts got
> flat-spotted. Correctly set up with new rubber they are charming
> antiques and work halfway decently, but no one in their right mind
> would take a Garrard over a LP12 for sound quality.
>
Rim drive is for people who just don't care.

Here is a breakdown of all the different types of turntable drive systems.

Naturally the most accurate one for speed is Direct Drive from Technics.

http://www.kabusa.com/ttdrive.htm