More about Trotsky speakers ?

[Lionel]

"Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."

"The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while the
B&G performs on level with the best domes."

"None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you cross
them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at Fc
becomes worse."

http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/


Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
...."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D


Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
will run out of fun...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...

"The speaker, despite what I've previously*written is well-balanced in
general."

"The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
*cymbals/bells/chimes."

"The tweeters have bite without being biting or*harsh. The speakers image
well. There's a coherence to the sound that*was pleasing to me. Voices and
instruments were placed where I*expected them to be (within the room
limitations that I've previously*mentioned). With the exception of the lack
of deep bass, the speakers*portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


--
"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

[Arny Krueger]

"Lionel" > wrote in message


> "Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a
> loser. This is it. Fairly flat and controlled response,
> but the distortion kills it."

> "The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've
> ever seen, while the B&G performs on level with the best
> domes."

> "None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz.
> The higher you cross them, the better you will avoid low
> end distortion. On the other hand, these are all large
> flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at Fc
> becomes worse."

> http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/

All very valid criticisms.

> Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio
> review from before we will run out of fun...
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...

> "The speaker, despite what I've previously written is
> well-balanced in general."

Agreed, Dave likes to contradict himself (and everybody
else!).

> "The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
> cymbals/bells/chimes."

Easy material to have sound impressive.

> "The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh.

If you drive them hard in the midrange, the high nonlinear
distortion should be audible unless you're using sources
(e.g. vinyl) that also tends to have a lot of distortion.

> The speakers image well. There's a coherence to the sound
> that was pleasing to me. Voices and instruments were
> placed where I expected them to be (within the room
> limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the
> exception of the lack of deep bass, the speakers portray
> a reasonable sense of "slam".

Slam without deep bass?

Yup, Dave likes to contradict himself while cycling though
the audiophile buzz words.

[Lionel]

In >, Arny Krueger wrote :


> Yup, Dave likes to contradict himself while cycling though
> the audiophile buzz words.

Dave was more interested in the sound of his sentences than in the music he
was listening and the real capability of the speakers he was reviewing.

Results ? No surprises : boring writer, bul**** reviewer...


But I prefer to let him the *real* conclusion of this grotesque story :

"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?"

Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15


Lucid no ?

[dave weil]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:25:49 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>"Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
>Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>
>"The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while the
>B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>
>"None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you cross
>them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
>these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at Fc
>becomes worse."
>
>http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>
>
>Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
>..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>
>
>Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
>will run out of fun...
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>
>"The speaker, despite what I've previously*written is well-balanced in
>general."
>
>"The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
>*cymbals/bells/chimes."
>
>"The tweeters have bite without being biting or*harsh. The speakers image
>well. There's a coherence to the sound that*was pleasing to me. Voices and
>instruments were placed where I*expected them to be (within the room
>limitations that I've previously*mentioned). With the exception of the lack
>of deep bass, the speakers*portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Two amateurs disagree on the quality of sound. Imagain (typo just for
Lionel, the perennial misspeller) that!

[dave weil]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:48:24 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>In >, Arny Krueger wrote :
>
>
>> Yup, Dave likes to contradict himself while cycling though
>> the audiophile buzz words.
>
>Dave was more interested in the sound of his sentences than in the music he
>was listening and the real capability of the speakers he was reviewing.
>
>Results ? No surprises : boring writer, bul**** reviewer...

And you hung on every word. I' must be brilliant!

[dave weil]

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 07:20:25 -0500, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>> The speakers image well. There's a coherence to the sound
>> that was pleasing to me. Voices and instruments were
>> placed where I expected them to be (within the room
>> limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the
>> exception of the lack of deep bass, the speakers portray
>> a reasonable sense of "slam".
>
>Slam without deep bass?

Shame that you can't understand a mitigating word like "reasonable".
Your command of English is comparable to Lionel.

[Robert Morein]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:25:49 +0100, Lionel >
[snip]
>
> Two amateurs disagree on the quality of sound. Imagain (typo just for
> Lionel, the perennial misspeller) that!

But only one can be correct.
Who can we look to, to pronounce with absolute authority that either, or
neither, is correct?
I have a name on the tip of my tongue....K....KK...KKK
Damn. Forgot it again.

[Lionel]

dave "deaf" weil a écrit :


> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:48:24 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>In >, Arny Krueger wrote :
>>
>>
>>
>>>Yup, Dave likes to contradict himself while cycling though
>>>the audiophile buzz words.
>>
>>Dave was more interested in the sound of his sentences than in the music he
>>was listening and the real capability of the speakers he was reviewing.
>>
>>Results ? No surprises : boring writer, bul**** reviewer...
>
>
> And you hung on every word.


Since every word is more grotesque than the previous one is an
inexhaustible source of fun for me. ;-)


> I' must be brilliant!


Even coming from Marzipan Man ? :-D

Yes Dave, this is excatly what you have written just below :

"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here? "

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:25:49 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
>>Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>>
>>"The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while the
>>B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>>
>>"None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you cross
>>them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
>>these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at Fc
>>becomes worse."
>>
>>http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>>
>>
>>Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
>>..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>>
>>
>>Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
>>will run out of fun...
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>>
>>"The speaker, despite what I've previously written is well-balanced in
>>general."
>>
>>"The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
>> cymbals/bells/chimes."
>>
>>"The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh. The speakers image
>>well. There's a coherence to the sound that was pleasing to me. Voices and
>>instruments were placed where I expected them to be (within the room
>>limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the exception of the lack
>>of deep bass, the speakers portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Two amateurs disagree on the quality of sound.

Yes but one of the amateur have done some serious listening and
measurments since the other one is deaf and was only interested in
writing a review to impress RAO people.


> Imagain (typo just for
> Lionel, the perennial misspeller) that!


If needed your following sentences would have cure all my complexs
concerning typos and bad spelling... :-D

"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here? "

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

Why are you such a joke, Dave ?

[dave weil]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:18:01 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>Since every word is more grotesque than the previous one is an
>inexhaustible source of fun for me. ;-)

Life must really suck for you then.

[dave weil]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:32:24 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>Yes but one of the amateur have done some serious listening and
>measurments since the other one is deaf and was only interested in
>writing a review to impress RAO people.

Wrong again, elevatormusic gramps.

[Lionel]

dave "deaf" weil a écrit :

> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:18:01 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Since every word is more grotesque than the previous one is an
>>inexhaustible source of fun for me. ;-)
>
>
> Life must really suck for you then.


Thankfully I have you Dave.



--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

[[email protected]]

Lionel wrote:
> "Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
> Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>
> "The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while the
> B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>
> "None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you cross
> them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
> these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at Fc
> becomes worse."
>
> http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>
>
> Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
> ..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>
>
> Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
> will run out of fun...
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>
> "The speaker, despite what I've previously written is well-balanced in
> general."
>
> "The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
> cymbals/bells/chimes."
>
> "The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh. The speakers image
> well. There's a coherence to the sound that was pleasing to me. Voices and
> instruments were placed where I expected them to be (within the room
> limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the exception of the lack
> of deep bass, the speakers portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> "Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
> But what's new around here?"

Thank you for posting the Zaphaudio tests. It is nice to see that even
what is fahionable as of today in audio testing agrees with one's ears.
I bought B&G latest version of their tweeter 3 weeks ago because I
liked the sound. My previous tweeters Magnat plasma gave up the ghost.
After 3 weeks I'm still glad they did. B$G sounds better.
No critics' words like "slam" to avoid displeasing Arny (Or is it
Arni?) Krueger. Just a simple listener's choice. No ABX test either to
please him. Just a simple listener's chouice by ear.
Ludovic Mirabel.
>
> Dave Weil, Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15

[dave weil]

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:56:03 +0100, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave "deaf" weil a écrit :
>
>> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:18:01 +0100, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Since every word is more grotesque than the previous one is an
>>>inexhaustible source of fun for me. ;-)
>>
>>
>> Life must really suck for you then.
>
>
>Thankfully I have you Dave.

Thankfully. Hopefully the wife has the postman.

[Lionel]

a écrit :
> Lionel wrote:
>
>>"Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
>>Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>>
>>"The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while the
>>B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>>
>>"None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you cross
>>them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
>>these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at Fc
>>becomes worse."
>>
>>http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>>
>>
>>Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
>>..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>>
>>
>>Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
>>will run out of fun...
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>>
>>"The speaker, despite what I've previously written is well-balanced in
>>general."
>>
>>"The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
>> cymbals/bells/chimes."
>>
>>"The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh. The speakers image
>>well. There's a coherence to the sound that was pleasing to me. Voices and
>>instruments were placed where I expected them to be (within the room
>>limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the exception of the lack
>>of deep bass, the speakers portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>--
>>"Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
>>But what's new around here?"
>
>
> Thank you for posting the Zaphaudio tests. It is nice to see that even
> what is fahionable as of today in audio testing agrees with one's ears.
> I bought B&G latest version of their tweeter 3 weeks ago because I
> liked the sound. My previous tweeters Magnat plasma gave up the ghost.
> After 3 weeks I'm still glad they did. B$G sounds better.
> No critics' words like "slam" to avoid displeasing Arny (Or is it
> Arni?) Krueger. Just a simple listener's choice. No ABX test either to
> please him. Just a simple listener's chouice by ear.

Zaph is doing a very good job in proposing some very good configuration
for interesting pricing.
His comments and feelings are usually corroborated by some other DIY
sources.

BTW you are an happy man because you have a normal/good hearing.
You should have a charitable thought for the deaf audio reviewer.


--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

[Lionel]

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:56:03 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave "deaf" weil a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:18:01 +0100, Lionel >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Since every word is more grotesque than the previous one is an
>>>>inexhaustible source of fun for me. ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>Life must really suck for you then.
>>
>>
>>Thankfully I have you Dave.
>
>
> Thankfully. Hopefully the wife has the postman.


No problem, it's a friend of mine. :-)



--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:25:49 +0100, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>>"Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
>>Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>>
>>"The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while
>>the
>>B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>>
>>"None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you
>>cross
>>them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
>>these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at
>>Fc
>>becomes worse."
>>
>>http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>>
>>
>>Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
>>..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>>
>>
>>Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
>>will run out of fun...
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>>
>>"The speaker, despite what I've previously written is well-balanced in
>>general."
>>
>>"The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
>> cymbals/bells/chimes."
>>
>>"The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh. The speakers image
>>well. There's a coherence to the sound that was pleasing to me. Voices and
>>instruments were placed where I expected them to be (within the room
>>limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the exception of the
>>lack
>>of deep bass, the speakers portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Two amateurs disagree on the quality of sound. Imagain (typo just for
> Lionel, the perennial misspeller) that!

You may recall that after looking up the specs on the Silver Flute line of
speakers, I urged Singh to take a look at the Fountek ribbons, since to me
they looked on paper to be a much better choice in every way than the
Silver Flute line.

[Lionel]

a écrit :
> "dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 12:25:49 +0100, Lionel >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
>>>Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>>>
>>>"The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while
>>>the
>>>B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>>>
>>>"None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you
>>>cross
>>>them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
>>>these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at
>>>Fc
>>>becomes worse."
>>>
>>>http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>>>
>>>
>>>Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
>>>..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>>>
>>>
>>>Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
>>>will run out of fun...
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>>>
>>>"The speaker, despite what I've previously written is well-balanced in
>>>general."
>>>
>>>"The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
>>>cymbals/bells/chimes."
>>>
>>>"The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh. The speakers image
>>>well. There's a coherence to the sound that was pleasing to me. Voices and
>>>instruments were placed where I expected them to be (within the room
>>>limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the exception of the
>>>lack
>>>of deep bass, the speakers portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Two amateurs disagree on the quality of sound. Imagain (typo just for
>>Lionel, the perennial misspeller) that!
>
>
> You may recall that after looking up the specs on the Silver Flute line of
> speakers, I urged Singh to take a look at the Fountek ribbons, since to me
> they looked on paper to be a much better choice in every way than the
> Silver Flute line.

Sometimes I'm not sure that Dave has really reviewed those speakers.
Sometimes I'm imagine him with Trotsky in a white van... :-D


--
Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
But what's new around here?

Dave Weil - Sun, 05 Oct 2003 00:57:15 -0500

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Lionel wrote:
>> "Silver Flute YAG20-1 ($40) - Every test has to have a loser. This is it.
>> Fairly flat and controlled response, but the distortion kills it."
>>
>> "The YAG20 is probably one of the worst performers I've ever seen, while
>> the
>> B&G performs on level with the best domes."
>>
>> "None of the true ribbons should be used below 2.5kHz. The higher you
>> cross
>> them, the better you will avoid low end distortion. On the other hand,
>> these are all large flanged tweeters, and as you cross higher, lobing at
>> Fc
>> becomes worse."
>>
>> http://www.zaphaudio.com/nondomes/
>>
>>
>> Hey Dave, even if I listen to elevator music...
>> ..."At least" I can hear it !!!! :-D
>>
>>
>> Good job Dave !!! I hope we will get an other audio review from before we
>> will run out of fun...
>>
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Excerpts from Dave Weil's speaker review...
>>
>> "The speaker, despite what I've previously written is well-balanced in
>> general."
>>
>> "The speakers are especially pleasing with brass and
>> cymbals/bells/chimes."
>>
>> "The tweeters have bite without being biting or harsh. The speakers image
>> well. There's a coherence to the sound that was pleasing to me. Voices
>> and
>> instruments were placed where I expected them to be (within the room
>> limitations that I've previously mentioned). With the exception of the
>> lack
>> of deep bass, the speakers portray a reasonable sense of "slam".
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> --
>> "Nobody seemes to have actaully read what i wrote.
>> But what's new around here?"
>
> Thank you for posting the Zaphaudio tests. It is nice to see that even
> what is fahionable as of today in audio testing agrees with one's ears.

Nice to see your ears agreeing with the measurements.

> I bought B&G latest version of their tweeter 3 weeks ago because I
> liked the sound. My previous tweeters Magnat plasma gave up the ghost.
> After 3 weeks I'm still glad they did. B$G sounds better.
> No critics' words like "slam" to avoid displeasing Arny (Or is it
> Arni?) Krueger.

One doesn't really expect to see the word slam associated with a tweeter.

Just a simple listener's choice. No ABX test either to
> please him. Just a simple listener's chouice by ear.
> Ludovic Mirabel.
>>
Do we need to go over the fact that speaker differences are gross and don't
require ABX comparisons?

I'd like to see a comparison of any B&G tweeter compared to any of the
Dynaudio tweeters.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ink.net

> I'd like to see a comparison of any B&G tweeter compared
> to any of the Dynaudio tweeters.

Reading between the lines, one can see that the reviewer
thinks that dome tweeters to in general have better
performance. So now we look at Morel, DAP (Vifa, Peerless,
Scanspeak), etc.

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> ink.net
>
>> I'd like to see a comparison of any B&G tweeter compared
>> to any of the Dynaudio tweeters.
>
> Reading between the lines, one can see that the reviewer thinks that dome
> tweeters to in general have better performance. So now we look at Morel,
> DAP (Vifa, Peerless, Scanspeak), etc.
>
I don't think it was between the lines at all, he came right out and said
it.

Got any sources of information on Manger drivers? Pros and cons?

Anybody interested in B&G ribbons should take a look at the Audio X Press
Premier Issue from January 200, as it begins a multipart project on building
a full range speaker using their big planar magnetic driver.