Re: Does Denon Really Suck?

[Lester Wareham]

Doing a search of the groups I found the below article, so here is my story.

My much loved Yamaha CR-620 receiver (circa 1978) developed a fault recently
so I thought - what the hell lets replace it.

A quick look at What Hi-Fi showed the Denon DRA-455 was recommended (and
quite cheap) a very similar spec. So not having bought any audio gear for
years I get this and install.

Good it works, tuner might be a bit rough of loud hi frequency notes but OK.
Then I try a CD, sounds OK until the inter track gap when what do I hear but
loads of white noise.

Not enough to be a fault, balanced on both channels, but damm annoying and
the sort of performance I would have expected from cheap stereo equipment.

Further investigation shows this is on all channels with no input and is
independent of volume control so it must be a noisy PA design.

Checking the power output and PA SNR specs the two equipments are within
1-2dB of the same noise level but the Denon has much more noise than the old
Yamaha.

So it's time to get out the soldering iron and try and fix the old kit and
put the Denon in it's box in the cupboard. It's a shame as otherwise it
seemed OK.

What I want to know is can I expect this short of poor performance from all
modern (grumpy old man mode engaged) so called Hi-Fi equipment or am I just
unlucky? What makes are good and what are crap?

I can put this down to experience and try and convince the wife to part with
serious cash to upgrade - but will it be worth it.




From: Joseph Oberlander )
Subject: Re: Does Denon Really Suck?
View: Complete Thread (6 articles)
Original Format
Newsgroups: rec.audio.opinion
Date: 2003-03-13 12:11:32 PST


Alex Rodriguez wrote:
> In article >, says...
>
>
>>Here's a revealing comment from a Denon dealer about his own product
>>line, and no, he has not been cut off by Denon.
>>http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/260649.html
>
>
> Maybe. It could just be that his markup on Marantz gives him a bigger
profit
> than Denon, so he will push the line that makes him the most money.

I find that Denon is basically identical to HK in quality. Both are not
nearly as good as they were ten years ago, but they are a small step
up from the Sonys, Onkyos, and Kenwoods that seem to be on every store
shelf.

If you want decent quality, Rotel is much better and not a lot more money.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Lester Wareham wrote:

> What I want to know is can I expect this short of poor performance from all
> modern (grumpy old man mode engaged) so called Hi-Fi equipment or am I just
> unlucky? What makes are good and what are crap?
>
> I can put this down to experience and try and convince the wife to part with
> serious cash to upgrade - but will it be worth it.

I'd leave the orion alone and return the uniut. claim there's noise, whatnot
and get your money back. Or, sell it. Then buy the Rotel - it's a much better
built unit.

[Lester Wareham]

Interesting results after some more testing:



1) The noise is independent of volume setting other than at full
volume. The noise is undiminished when the volume is set to minimum and no
wanted signal is being produced at the speakers. These tests are conducted
with equipment connected turned on or off.

2) The noise can be modified by adjustment of the treble tone control.

3) The noise is less noticeable when tuner is selected.

4) If the volume control is set to minimum and the tuner selected the
noise level is low, if any of the inputs CD, Video and Phono are selected
the noise level increases.

5) If the Tape source is selected then the noise level follows the
pattern as described in 4) above when the Tape Deck is not switched to
record and so no input signal from the source can be present at the Tape
Deck outputs. Note that when the tuner output is selected the noise reduces
despite no Tuner signal being audible.



The conclusion of the above then, is the noise is independent of the input
signal and is dependent upon the program selection circuit mode.

Is this a fault or just bad design.

Interesting your suggestion about Rotel RA-02 plus a decent tuner, but the
cash difference made me go cheap for the first time in my life.


"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Lester Wareham wrote:
>
> > What I want to know is can I expect this short of poor performance from
all
> > modern (grumpy old man mode engaged) so called Hi-Fi equipment or am I
just
> > unlucky? What makes are good and what are crap?
> >
> > I can put this down to experience and try and convince the wife to part
with
> > serious cash to upgrade - but will it be worth it.
>
> I'd leave the orion alone and return the uniut. claim there's noise,
whatnot
> and get your money back. Or, sell it. Then buy the Rotel - it's a much
better
> built unit.
>

[Joseph Oberlander]

Lester Wareham wrote:

> Is this a fault or just bad design.

Budget design.

> Interesting your suggestion about Rotel RA-02 plus a decent tuner, but the
> cash difference made me go cheap for the first time in my life.

Rotel's integrated units are basically two seperates in a single case, so
save some money. :)

[Lester Wareham]

The end of this story then is the chap from the shop (Audio-T) was very
helpful and drove 18 miles to bring a replacement unit around. However this
had exactly the same problem, so a design fault. I find it hard to believe
it was meeting it's noise spec which was within a dB or two of my old Yamaha
CR-620.

Audio-T were quite happy to accept return and provide a refund.

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Lester Wareham wrote:
>
> > Is this a fault or just bad design.
>
> Budget design.
>
> > Interesting your suggestion about Rotel RA-02 plus a decent tuner, but
the
> > cash difference made me go cheap for the first time in my life.
>
> Rotel's integrated units are basically two seperates in a single case, so
> save some money. :)
>