Advice Needed: Interconnects/Speaker wire

[[email protected]]

I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.

Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.

Thanks,

Cliff

[TCS]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:17:22 -0400, > wrote:
>I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
>player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
>Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.

>Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
>Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.

How important is ****ing your money away to you? Spending more than
$30/cable is exactly that.

If you really want that special feeling of pride that comes from having spent
too much, you really need to spend at least $400/cable.

Don't forget the thousand dollar power cord wile you're at it and the
two thousand dollar s/pdif cable.

[Powell]

> wrote

> I need advice on which interconnects would do well
> with my Rega Planet CD player --> Conrad Johnson
> PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
> Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>
> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and
> ET LFT-III planar speakers. Cost is a
> consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect
> below $200.
>
Cables are system dependant. It is unlikely that
you will receive an unqualified endorsement of any
cable for that reason. May I suggest that you
check out The Cable Company www.fatwyre.com
or call 1-800 FAT WYRE. This company stocks
something like sixty brands of cables. In addition
they have a data base of what customers have
auditioned/purchased in relationship to the
equipment they own. They will sent you a
selection of cables for your price range and
charge you a rental fee that you can apply
toward the purchase.

They (T.C.C.) recently started a used cable
web site, too. www.usedcable.com

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message


> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega
> Planet CD player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at
> the Nordost Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.

....if you are into audio jewelry, fine.

> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.

....if you are into audio jewelry, fine.

> Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below
> $200.

If money matters at all, consider Radio Shack gold interconnects, and Home
Depot 12 gauge speaker wire. That's what it takes to get the job done
wonderfully well in terms of sound quality. After that, its all glitter for
impressing visiting firemen.

[Lionel]

wrote:
> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
> player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
> Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>
> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
> Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cliff
>

In my point of view you should spend a maximum of $30...
....And give the $170.00 to the salvation army.
* You will not be able to hear the difference.
* They surely know how to spend $170.00

[Michael Scarpitti]

TCS > wrote in message 625.kaosol.net>...
> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:17:22 -0400, > wrote:
> >I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
> >player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
> >Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>
> >Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
> >Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.
>
> How important is ****ing your money away to you? Spending more than
> $30/cable is exactly that.

WRONG.

> If you really want that special feeling of pride that comes from having spent
> too much, you really need to spend at least $400/cable.

No, $100 will do just nicely.

> Don't forget the thousand dollar power cord wile you're at it and the
> two thousand dollar s/pdif cable.

[Arny Krueger]

"Michael Scarpitti" > wrote in message
m
> TCS > wrote in message
> 625.kaosol.net>...
>> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:17:22 -0400,
>> > wrote:
>>> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega
>>> Planet CD player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look
>>> at the Nordost Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>>
>>> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar
>>> speakers. Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the
>>> interconnect below $200.
>>
>> How important is ****ing your money away to you? Spending more than
>> $30/cable is exactly that.
>
> WRONG.

Wow that was tactful and well-supported!

NOT!

>> If you really want that special feeling of pride that comes from
>> having spent too much, you really need to spend at least $400/cable.

> No, $100 will do just nicely.

Really?

>> Don't forget the thousand dollar power cord wile you're at it and the
>> two thousand dollar s/pdif cable.

LOL!

[TCS]

On 6 Oct 2003 12:12:38 -0700, Michael Scarpitti > wrote:
> TCS > wrote in message 625.kaosol.net>...
>> On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:17:22 -0400, > wrote:
>> >I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
>> >player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
>> >Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>>
>> >Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
>> >Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.
>>
>> How important is ****ing your money away to you? Spending more than
>> $30/cable is exactly that.
>
> WRONG.

I know. You won't make some pseudoscientist lacking a high school
education rich nor his compadre of marketing fantasy writers.

Nor will you get that special feeling of pride that comes from having
spent too much.

There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation between how much you
spend and the quality of cable. It isn't making cables so incredibly
mediocre that they have trouble passing high audio frequencies without
muffling them ( ie: sound warm).

I'd rather put my money into my system's equipment than **** if away on
designer cables.

[Joseph Oberlander]

TCS wrote:

> There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation between how much you
> spend and the quality of cable. It isn't making cables so incredibly
> mediocre that they have trouble passing high audio frequencies without
> muffling them ( ie: sound warm).

That's due to too small a gauge. 12-14 gauge common electrical wiring
is more than any 6-8 ohm speaker needs to have this reduiced below
audible levels.

[TCS]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:40:04 GMT, Joseph Oberlander > wrote:
>TCS wrote:

>> There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation between how much you
>> spend and the quality of cable. It isn't making cables so incredibly
>> mediocre that they have trouble passing high audio frequencies without
>> muffling them ( ie: sound warm).

>That's due to too small a gauge. 12-14 gauge common electrical wiring
>is more than any 6-8 ohm speaker needs to have this reduiced below
>audible levels.

It's due to designing by pseudoscience and marketing fantasies. Why use
solid engineering when you can fool idiots into paying more for solid gold
wrapped with iguana spit?

It isn't easy making cables audible.

[[email protected]]

Let me ask all of those folks who responded to my initial post, with
sophomoric quips about cables:

Is it genetic, or did you have surgery to put your asshole where your
mouth should be?


___________


In article >, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:

> > wrote in message
>
>
> > I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega
> > Planet CD player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at
> > the Nordost Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>
> ...if you are into audio jewelry, fine.
>
> > Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
>
> ...if you are into audio jewelry, fine.
>
> > Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below
> > $200.
>
> If money matters at all, consider Radio Shack gold interconnects, and Home
> Depot 12 gauge speaker wire. That's what it takes to get the job done
> wonderfully well in terms of sound quality. After that, its all glitter for
> impressing visiting firemen.

[George M. Middius]

Shelleyed:

> Let me ask all of those folks who responded to my initial post, with
> sophomoric quips about cables:
>
> Is it genetic, or did you have surgery to put your asshole where your
> mouth should be?

It's not that. What you did, in suggesting that you might invest
serious money in cables, is attack the peabrains' religious beliefs.

Maybe you're new to the insular world of Internet Audio Geeks. They
are a hostile bunch. They are filled with envy and venom. They believe
they "know" what is right for everybody even though very little of the
human race is anything like Them.

There's a good reason Arnii Krooger is known as ****-for-Brains and
TCS is known as Dickless Buttface. They have earned those names and
others like them.

The truth about cables is yours to discover. That said, a sensible
approach would be to borrow a pair from your dealer and audition them
in your system. Most experienced audiophiles will tell you that
swapping cables is very unlikely to make a noticeable difference in
the sound. What you may discover with unbalanced (RCA-terminated)
cables is that some plugs fit into your equipment's jacks better than
others. Also, some may blend into your overall color scheme better.

But a reasonable person doesn't tell you that you're wasting money on
something you want to have.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message

> Let me ask all of those folks who responded to my initial post, with
> sophomoric quips about cables:
>
> Is it genetic, or did you have surgery to put your asshole where your
> mouth should be?

Please describe the details of the means by which you had said change to
your body implemented.

[Lionel]

wrote:
> Let me ask all of those folks who responded to my initial post, with
> sophomoric quips about cables:
>
> Is it genetic, or did you have surgery to put your asshole where your
> mouth should be?
>
>
None of the answers you received was expressed with such vulgarity.
So I start again...
You can buy everything you want as expensive as you want but before that
you should better definitively cure your chronic intestinal problems or
you will never be able to hear any difference.
Happy ?

[Michael Scarpitti]

wrote in message >...
> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
> player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
> Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>
> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
> Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cliff
>

Monster Reference (whichever ones are about $100 for 1-meter) are what
I use, and they're very good.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CWA4/qid=1065537699/br=1-4/ref=br_lf_e_4//102-4048785-0586544?v=glance&s=electronics&n=517466

[Powell]

"TCS" wrote

> There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation
> between how much you spend and the quality
> of cable.
>
Hehehe... “inverse correlation”, oh right. I’m
sure the value of you advice follows the same
numerical relationship in comparison with your
actual empirical experiences using high end
cables. Zilch!

[Bruce J. Richman]

Powell wrote:


>"TCS" wrote
>
>> There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation
>> between how much you spend and the quality
>> of cable.
>>
>Hehehe... “inverse correlation�, oh right. I’m
>sure the value of you advice follows the same
>numerical relationship in comparison with your
>actual empirical experiences using high end
>cables. Zilch!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

TCS is just attempting, without any success, to con the public in to accepting
his OSAF. There is no evidence presented, in terms of statistically
significant results, to support his latest blather.


Bruce J. Richman

[Arny Krueger]

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message


>"TCS" wrote
>
>> There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation
>> between how much you spend and the quality
>> of cable.

> TCS is just attempting, without any success, to con the public in to
> accepting his OSAF. There is no evidence presented, in terms of
> statistically significant results, to support his latest blather.

I can cite at least one real-world example being that Monster sells 16 gauge
speaker cable for a significantly higher price than any number of sources of
12 gauge speaker wire.

Thus you get less quality for more money with the high end cable source.

Another example. I have a set of Monster speaker cables that had a street
price of $449. They are again technically somewhat inferior to ordinary 12
gauge speaker wire, primarily because the $449 Monster Cable is
approximately 13 gauge.

Thus you get lower quality for more money with the high end cable source.
Again the claimed inverse relationship pointed out by TCS is shown to exist.

As we go through more and more examples, the pattern TCS suggests will be
shown to be true. This is because you can *always* find a wire that is
technically equal or superior to the high end source for a lower price.
AFAIK there are no examples.

Of course Richman, you can cite some real world examples of your own. Feel
free!

[TCS]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:21:53 -0400, Powell > wrote:
>
> "TCS" wrote
>
>> There's in fact a very strong inverse correlation
>> between how much you spend and the quality
>> of cable.
>>
> Hehehe... “inverse correlation”, oh right. I’m
> sure the value of you advice follows the same
> numerical relationship in comparison with your
> actual empirical experiences using high end
> cables. Zilch!

The ones I've paid more than $50 for have *always* been of a low quality
than even what radio shack sells. One pair of cables was so unbelievably
microphonic that cracking could be heard out the speakers by flexing
the cables.

[TCS]

On 7 Oct 2003 07:43:49 -0700, Michael Scarpitti > wrote:
> wrote in message >...
>> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
>> player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
>> Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>>
>> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
>> Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Cliff
>>
>
> Monster Reference (whichever ones are about $100 for 1-meter) are what
> I use, and they're very good.
>
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CWA4/qid=1065537699/br=1-4/ref=br_lf_e_4//102-4048785-0586544?v=glance&s=electronics&n=517466

I'd have more respect for monster if they didn't play the pseudobalanced
bull**** game.
RCA cables aren't balanced and running a separate ground lead inside the
shield causes more troubles than it's worth. Reasonably designed
equipment cures any problem with ground loops and "pseudo balanced" cables
can never achieve any improvement as long as there is a hard connection
between the connector grounds.

I make homemade cables using canare gs6 which I buy locally at 60
cents/foot. Add a $2/ea gold plated rcas ends and a 5' stereo cable costs
about $15 and is as good as any cable on the market. Hell, I use the
same cable for short video runs and it has no problems passing a perfect
video signal @ 3+mhz. I much prefer that idea of having a $2500 preamp/
HT control center than a $500 one adorned with $2000 of wasted money in
the form of pseudocables.

[[email protected]]

There is no such thing as scientific fact. All a scientist can do is prove
a theory -- with the knowledge and understanding we humans have at this
moment in time. Engineers apply such 'facts' in their designs, but all
this gives us is 'what we know now' engineering. Look back at human
history; 'facts' are shown to be flawed all the time.

Can a $1,000 cable be 'proved' to be more musical than a $15 one? Who is
to say for certain?

What is certain; there is much-too-much hostility in this thread. Why
can't you gentlement state an opinion and leave it at that?

:::::::::::::::::::




In article >, TCS
> wrote:

> On 7 Oct 2003 07:43:49 -0700, Michael Scarpitti
> wrote:
> > wrote in message
>...
> >> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega Planet CD
> >> player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look at the Nordost
> >> Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
> >>
> >> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar speakers.
> >> Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the interconnect below $200.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Cliff
> >>
> >
> > Monster Reference (whichever ones are about $100 for 1-meter) are what
> > I use, and they're very good.
> >
> >
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CWA4/qid=1065537699/br=1-4/ref=br_lf_e_4//102-4048785-0586544?v=glance&s=electronics&n=517466
>
> I'd have more respect for monster if they didn't play the pseudobalanced
> bull**** game.
> RCA cables aren't balanced and running a separate ground lead inside the
> shield causes more troubles than it's worth. Reasonably designed
> equipment cures any problem with ground loops and "pseudo balanced" cables
> can never achieve any improvement as long as there is a hard connection
> between the connector grounds.
>
> I make homemade cables using canare gs6 which I buy locally at 60
> cents/foot. Add a $2/ea gold plated rcas ends and a 5' stereo cable costs
> about $15 and is as good as any cable on the market. Hell, I use the
> same cable for short video runs and it has no problems passing a perfect
> video signal @ 3+mhz. I much prefer that idea of having a $2500 preamp/
> HT control center than a $500 one adorned with $2000 of wasted money in
> the form of pseudocables.

[Joseph Oberlander]

wrote:

> There is no such thing as scientific fact. All a scientist can do is prove
> a theory -- with the knowledge and understanding we humans have at this
> moment in time. Engineers apply such 'facts' in their designs, but all
> this gives us is 'what we know now' engineering. Look back at human
> history; 'facts' are shown to be flawed all the time.

Ah, but we do know three pieces of data about the human body and two
about the wire.

- The human body has a finite limit on how fast its neurons can fire.
This limits the resolution, much how we can't really see much beyond
50-60fps.
- The human ear has a specific range for frequency response. Now, not
everyone is that same, to be sure, but we all fit within a rough range
of ~20hz-20Khz.
- The same is true for dynamics. Your ears resolve tiny db differences
only to about .2db in the best circumstances. That's a side-by side
comparison, too - our minds will gloss over values almost ten times
that large if there is no direct comparison.

- We know the loss values for any given gauge of wire and length. That's
a given.
- We can easily translate that into db loss if we know the speaker's minimum
impedance. IME, .2 db is very close to this threshold, so you can safely
use 2% loss as a limit. I personally think the recommended 5% maximum is
too large, btw.

What does this all mean? Science can tell us exactly how large a wire
we need for a specific installation and impedance(speaker) in order for
any differences to be physically indistinguishable and beyond the
limits of our ears and mind.

For most 8 ohm applications, 12-14 gauge plain vanilla wire is well beyond
this threshold. For something like Electrostatics, though, and, say, a
long run, you might need to go as large as 4 or 6 gauge.

No myth, no theories - easily calculatable facts.

> Can a $1,000 cable be 'proved' to be more musical than a $15 one? Who is
> to say for certain?

Musical is a vague term. Do you mean makes you feel good emotionally,
or is sonically accurate and has no descernable effect on the sound?

I have no proble, personally, with either. If you want a specific look
for your audio system, or have a special need(like flat wire under a
carper), so be it. If you want transparent wires, that can be tested
and calculated.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message

> There is no such thing as scientific fact. All a scientist can do is
> prove a theory -- with the knowledge and understanding we humans have
> at this moment in time. Engineers apply such 'facts' in their
> designs, but all this gives us is 'what we know now' engineering.
> Look back at human history; 'facts' are shown to be flawed all the
> time.

> Can a $1,000 cable be 'proved' to be more musical than a $15 one? Who
> is to say for certain?

Please explain how one cable is "more musical" than another when the two are
sonically indistinguishable, as they often are.

> What is certain; there is much-too-much hostility in this thread.

Ironic that you hung this comment on a post that was pretty much free of
personal hostility towards other posters, unlike yours.

> Why can't you gentlemen state an opinion and leave it at that?

I believe that the writer in question stated his opinion about Monster and
left it at that. Who on this newsgroup did he attack? Of course, you just
attacked him.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

> In article
> >, TCS
> > wrote:
>
>> On 7 Oct 2003 07:43:49 -0700, Michael Scarpitti
> > wrote:
>>> wrote in message
> >...
>>>> I need advice on which interconnects would do well with my Rega
>>>> Planet CD player --> Conrad Johnson PV-11. I've been told to look
>>>> at the Nordost Blue Heaven or similar silver wire.
>>>>
>>>> Also, which speaker bi-wire btw SS amp and ET LFT-III planar
>>>> speakers. Cost is a consideration. Would like to keep the
>>>> interconnect below $200.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>
>>> Monster Reference (whichever ones are about $100 for 1-meter) are
>>> what I use, and they're very good.
>>>
>>>
>
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003CWA4/qid=1065537699/br=1
-4/ref=br_lf_e_4//102-4048785-0586544?v=glance&s=electronics&n=517466
>>
>> I'd have more respect for monster if they didn't play the
>> pseudobalanced bull**** game.

>> RCA cables aren't balanced and running a separate ground lead inside
>> the shield causes more troubles than it's worth. Reasonably designed
>> equipment cures any problem with ground loops and "pseudo balanced"
>> cables can never achieve any improvement as long as there is a hard
>> connection between the connector grounds.
>>
>> I make homemade cables using canare gs6 which I buy locally at 60
>> cents/foot. Add a $2/ea gold plated rcas ends and a 5' stereo cable
>> costs about $15 and is as good as any cable on the market. Hell, I
>> use the same cable for short video runs and it has no problems
>> passing a perfect video signal @ 3+mhz. I much prefer that idea of
>> having a $2500 preamp/ HT control center than a $500 one adorned
>> with $2000 of wasted money in the form of pseudocables.

[[email protected]]

In article >, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:

> > Can a $1,000 cable be 'proved' to be more musical than a $15 one? Who
> > is to say for certain?
>
> Please explain how one cable is "more musical" than another when the two are
> sonically indistinguishable, as they often are.


Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Arny!

[George M. Middius]

said to ****-for-Brains:

> > Please explain how one cable is "more musical" than another when the two are
> > sonically indistinguishable, as they often are.

> Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Arny!

Arnii's religion requires him to be a sack of ****.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message

> In article >, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:

>>> Can a $1,000 cable be 'proved' to be more musical than a $15 one?
>>> Who is to say for certain?
>
>> Please explain how one cable is "more musical" than another when the
>> two are sonically indistinguishable, as they often are.

> Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Arny!

Please explain.