Re: Greg - regarding the logo on your speakers

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:

> I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
> your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
> - the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.


That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow going
I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I think
is best.

As for the serial plate on the back, I do have a very nice gold embossed
sticker that is exactly as you describe it. In hindsight that should've
showed up on the site--it's just another point that adds credibility to
the operation. Dealing with website developers and "professional"
photographers has been a little more squirrelly than I was expecting.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:15:09 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Langis wrote:
>
>> I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
>> your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
>> - the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
>
>
>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
>stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow going
>I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I think
>is best.

I think you missed his point. He's saying that you should replace the
*current* plate on the front of your speaker. I think he thinks it
would be far more attractive to have the web site logo in lieu of the
bowling trophy nameplate.

>As for the serial plate on the back, I do have a very nice gold embossed
>sticker that is exactly as you describe it. In hindsight that should've
>showed up on the site--it's just another point that adds credibility to
>the operation. Dealing with website developers and "professional"
>photographers has been a little more squirrelly than I was expecting.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:15:09 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >Langis wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
> >>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
> >>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
> >
> >
> >That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
> >the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
> >speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
> >thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
> >stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow going
> >I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I think
> >is best.
>
>
> I think you missed his point. He's saying that you should replace the
> *current* plate on the front of your speaker. I think he thinks it
> would be far more attractive to have the web site logo in lieu of the
> bowling trophy nameplate.
>


You're really getting petty now, dave.

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> You're really getting petty now, dave.

Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> trotsky said:
>
>
> >You're really getting petty now, dave.
>
>
> Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?
>


George, again, this is audio, which time and time again you've professed
ignorance towards. Why the pretense, buddy?

[George M. Middius]

Gregipus pines for the comfort of dave weil's abuse.

> > Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?

> George, again, this is audio, which time and time again you've professed
> ignorance towards. Why the pretense, buddy?

Your speakers are a ripoff. Now that we've dropped your silly
pretense of soliciting feedback from the marketplace, it's time for
everybody to admit that Bobo and Obie were right. And not just
because you're a schmuck.

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Gregipus pines for the comfort of dave weil's abuse.
>
>
> >>Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?
>
>
>
> >George, again, this is audio, which time and time again you've professed
> >ignorance towards. Why the pretense, buddy?
>
>
> Your speakers are a ripoff. Now that we've dropped your silly
> pretense of soliciting feedback from the marketplace, it's time for
> everybody to admit that Bobo and Obie were right. And not just
> because you're a schmuck.



It's sad to see you sink this low. So now you can evaluate speakers
without listening to them, like those borgs you wax vitriolic about?
Wasn't it you that said recently "you've become that which you hate," or
words to that effect?

[George M. Middius]

Gregipus demonstrates his version of taking the high road.

> > Your speakers are a ripoff. Now that we've dropped your silly
> > pretense of soliciting feedback from the marketplace, it's time for
> > everybody to admit that Bobo and Obie were right. And not just
> > because you're a schmuck.

> It's sad to see you sink this low. So now you can evaluate speakers
> without listening to them, like those borgs you wax vitriolic about?
> Wasn't it you that said recently "you've become that which you hate," or
> words to that effect?

Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
noted. Moral degradation noted.

Isn't it about time you chuck yourself into Lake Michigan?

[Robert Morein]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Gregipus pines for the comfort of dave weil's abuse.
>
> > > Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?
>
> > George, again, this is audio, which time and time again you've professed
> > ignorance towards. Why the pretense, buddy?
>
> Your speakers are a ripoff. Now that we've dropped your silly
> pretense of soliciting feedback from the marketplace, it's time for
> everybody to admit that Bobo and Obie were right. And not just
> because you're a schmuck.
>
And I was just going to suggest, for the logo, the available Zenith motto,
"The quality goes in before the name goes on."

[Robert Morein]

"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Langis wrote:
>
> > I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
> > your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
> > - the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
>
>
> That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
> the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
> speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
> thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
> stop me before.)

But this time, it's costing you money.
Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has monetary
benefits?

I would make the argument on moral grounds, but it would require familiarity
with ethical concepts.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>

>
> But this time, it's costing you money.
> Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
monetary
> benefits?
>

A lesson which should be applied to your life experience.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> trotsky said:
>
> > You're really getting petty now, dave.
>
> Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?

For sure "petty" describes virtually everything that Middius writes and
does.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Langis wrote:
> >
> > > I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
> > > your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
> > > - the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
> >
> >
> > That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
> > the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
> > speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
> > thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
> > stop me before.)
>
> But this time, it's costing you money.
> Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
monetary
> benefits?
>
> I would make the argument on moral grounds, but it would require
familiarity
> with ethical concepts.

Point well taken. It is well-known that Singh ascribes to no known ethical
system other than: If I think it will give me an advantage at the moment,
I'll do it.

[Arny Krueger]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> >
> > But this time, it's costing you money.
> > Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
> monetary
> > benefits?
> >
>
> A lesson which should be applied to your life experience.

Why don't you tell us about your ethical system sockpuppet Yustabe? You
know, the one that has allowed you to aid and abet in the posting of
pedophile fantasies on RAO for years.

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Gregipus demonstrates his version of taking the high road.
>
>
> >>Your speakers are a ripoff. Now that we've dropped your silly
> >>pretense of soliciting feedback from the marketplace, it's time for
> >>everybody to admit that Bobo and Obie were right. And not just
> >>because you're a schmuck.
>
>
>
> >It's sad to see you sink this low. So now you can evaluate speakers
> >without listening to them, like those borgs you wax vitriolic about?
> >Wasn't it you that said recently "you've become that which you hate," or
> >words to that effect?
>
>
> Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
> noted. Moral degradation noted.
>
> Isn't it about time you chuck yourself into Lake Michigan?
>


George, you're looney tunes. There is no "accusation", just you
becoming borg. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>trotsky said:
>>
>>
>>>You're really getting petty now, dave.
>>
>>Is "petty" the trotsky word for "oops, I've been shown up again"?
>
>
> For sure "petty" describes virtually everything that Middius writes and
> does.



And "Christian" describes what you do, right Krueger? ROTFL!!!

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>>
>>>Langis wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
>>>>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
>>>>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
>>>
>>>
>>>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
>>>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
>>>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
>>>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
>>>stop me before.)
>>
>>But this time, it's costing you money.
>>Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
>
> monetary
>
>>benefits?
>>
>>I would make the argument on moral grounds, but it would require
>
> familiarity
>
>>with ethical concepts.
>
>
> Point well taken. It is well-known that Singh ascribes to no known ethical
> system other than: If I think it will give me an advantage at the moment,
> I'll do it.


It's nice to see the dickfors of the group talk amongst themselves.

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> > >>Your speakers are a ripoff.

> > >It's sad

> > Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
> > noted. Moral degradation noted.
> >
> > Isn't it about time you chuck yourself into Lake Michigan?

> George, you're looney tunes. There is no "accusation", just you
> becoming borg.

"Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
compliment.

> I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings.

Then it must kill you to get out of bed in the morning, sweathog.

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>>>Your speakers are a ripoff.
>>>>
>
>>>>It's sad
>>>
>
>>>Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
>>>noted. Moral degradation noted.
>>>
>>>Isn't it about time you chuck yourself into Lake Michigan?
>>
>
>
>>George, you're looney tunes. There is no "accusation", just you
>>becoming borg.
>
>
> "Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
> compliment.


My speakers are an exceptionally good value, which should be obvious to
anyone that hears them. Borgs tend not to worry about such things.



>>I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings.
>
>
> Then it must kill you to get out of bed in the morning, sweathog.


And as the coup de grace, an IKYABWAI. Bob Morion couldn't have
scripted it any better.

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > But this time, it's costing you money.
> > > Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
> > monetary
> > > benefits?
> > >
> >
> > A lesson which should be applied to your life experience.
>
> Why don't you tell us about your ethical system sockpuppet Yustabe? You
> know, the one that has allowed you to aid and abet in the posting of
> pedophile fantasies on RAO for years.
>


Oh, you mean the ongoing discussion initiated by YOU. They are
your fantasies, mate.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> >>>>>Your speakers are a ripoff.

> >>>>It's sad

> >>>Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
> >>>noted. Moral degradation noted.

> >>There is no "accusation"

> > "Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
> > compliment.

> My speakers are an exceptionally good value

So now, by responding to the accusation, you admit there was an
accusation. Please atone for your earlier lying, sweathog. Isn't
lying a behavior you deplore in Krooger? Don't you complain about
his flouting the priniciples of his so-called religion? Did you
renounce religion because you didn't want to feel guilty about
lying?

I'm sure you won't be able to answer any of these questions. I fully
expect nothing less than one of your mindless insults. Nonetheless,
I've done what I thought was useful in highlighting your incessant
lying.

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>>>>>Your speakers are a ripoff.
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>It's sad
>>>>>
>
>>>>>Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
>>>>>noted. Moral degradation noted.
>>>>
>
>>>>There is no "accusation"
>>>
>
>>>"Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
>>>compliment.
>>
>
>
>>My speakers are an exceptionally good value
>
>
> So now, by responding to the accusation, you admit there was an
> accusation.


No, I was responding to you troll. I do that from time to time for my
amusement.


Please atone for your earlier lying, sweathog. Isn't
> lying a behavior you deplore in Krooger? Don't you complain about
> his flouting the priniciples of his so-called religion? Did you
> renounce religion because you didn't want to feel guilty about
> lying?
>
> I'm sure you won't be able to answer any of these questions. I fully
> expect nothing less than one of your mindless insults. Nonetheless,
> I've done what I thought was useful in highlighting your incessant
> lying.



George, the more I hit home, the more you whine and cry about
"mindlessness" and "irrationality". It's your way of saying "No mas!
No mas!"

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> >>>>>>>Your speakers are a ripoff.

> >>>>>Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
> >>>>>noted. Moral degradation noted.

> >>>>There is no "accusation"

> >>>"Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
> >>>compliment.

> >>My speakers are an exceptionally good value

> > So now, by responding to the accusation, you admit there was an
> > accusation.

> No, I was responding to you troll.

You say "speaker dealer", I say "ripoff artist". You should be
saying "Let's call the whole thing off."

[Arny Krueger]

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > But this time, it's costing you money.
> > > > Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
> > > monetary
> > > > benefits?
> > > >
> > >
> > > A lesson which should be applied to your life experience.
> >
> > Why don't you tell us about your ethical system sockpuppet Yustabe? You
> > know, the one that has allowed you to aid and abet in the posting of
> > pedophile fantasies on RAO for years.

> Oh, you mean the ongoing discussion initiated by YOU.

No, the ongoing discussion of their own pedophile fantasies initiated by
Middius, Graham and Singh

>They are your fantasies, mate.

Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in passing that
I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh started running off at the
mouth.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>> trotsky said:
>>
>>
>>>>>> Your speakers are a ripoff.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> It's sad
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
>>>> noted. Moral degradation noted.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't it about time you chuck yourself into Lake Michigan?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> George, you're looney tunes. There is no "accusation", just you
>>> becoming borg.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
>> compliment.
>
>
>
> My speakers are an exceptionally good value, which should be obvious to
> anyone that hears them. Borgs tend not to worry about such things.

Two words and a figure:

Seas Charis $455

They are at LEAST comparable to your design and cost a third as much.
No Chinese/etc. built drivers either. Buy the kit, ready to assemble
in half an hour at Madisound.

Perhaps you should just buy their kit/drivers and alter it a bit -
mayeb a different cabinet and resell it under your name.

[The Devil]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:39:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in passing that
>I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh started running off at the
>mouth.

Don't talk ********, freak. That's the only thing you've ever told the
truth about--that you've had a child.

--
td

[Arny Krueger]

"The Devil" > wrote in message
news:dr01ov0nvj5bqstklash9aeilhfu8m0q77@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:39:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
> >Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in passing
that
> >I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh started running off at the
> >mouth.

> Don't talk ********, freak. That's the only thing you've ever told the
> truth about--that you've had a child.

"Had a child" commonly means to be the father or mother of a child. What's
wrong with that?

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "The Devil" > wrote in message
> news:dr01ov0nvj5bqstklash9aeilhfu8m0q77@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:39:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in passing
> that
> > >I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh started running off at
the
> > >mouth.
>
> > Don't talk ********, freak. That's the only thing you've ever told the
> > truth about--that you've had a child.
>
> "Had a child" commonly means to be the father or mother of a child. What's
> wrong with that?
>
>

Ok, ok, you had a child... now don't have a cow.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>>>>>>>Your speakers are a ripoff.
>>>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>>Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
>>>>>>>noted. Moral degradation noted.
>>>>>>
>
>>>>>>There is no "accusation"
>>>>>
>
>>>>>"Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
>>>>>compliment.
>>>>
>
>>>>My speakers are an exceptionally good value
>>>
>
>>>So now, by responding to the accusation, you admit there was an
>>>accusation.
>>
>
>
>>No, I was responding to you troll.
>
>
> You say "speaker dealer", I say "ripoff artist". You should be
> saying "Let's call the whole thing off."



For the record, are you admitting to borg like behavior?

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:
> trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
>>>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
>>>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
>>
>>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
>>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
>>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
>>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
>>stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow going
>>I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I think
>>is best.
>
>
> Dave is right - I meant it would look better if you used the logo from
> your site (which does look like a professional job) on the speakers. I
> don't think it's a trivial point either, this is about perception of
> your product - a critical matter.


Well, I disagree on all counts. First of all, I already knew what you
were trying to say, so the only thing dave was right about was restating
the obvious. Second, I had already spent over three hundred bucks on
nameplates, and was hardly going to get new ones made at this juncture.
It's not unusual for a company to redesign their logos as time passes,
of course. But the most important point is that I don't even agree with
you about the look of the logo: my logo that's currently on the speakers
is in keeping with the straight lines and no-nonsense look of the
speaker. And it looks quite good in the flesh, despite dave's cheap
shot to the contrary.


> I also think the photographs on your site don't do the business
> justice. They are very professionally done, no question about that -
> but the trumpet and vase of flowers are *really* corny. It's a
> perception issue again, but these photos do not spell out (to me)
> 'innovation'. If I was in your shoes I would consider using more
> unusual angles, a blurred or obscured background (rather than obvious
> backdrop), or better yet beg the use of a cutting edge designer home
> for a real world setting, as you might see in the glossies.


I don't doubt there is room for improvement, but whose going to do the
improving? I don't have the time or money to shop around for multiple
photographers and multiple web designers--I'm actually quite please what
has transpired considering this is the first time I've ever done
anything like this. Also, I'd like to know what you're basis for
comparison is: most sites from guys flying solo like myself (Ellis, for
example) look like a trained ape made them compared to mine.


>>As for the serial plate on the back, I do have a very nice gold embossed
>>sticker that is exactly as you describe it. In hindsight that should've
>>showed up on the site--it's just another point that adds credibility to
>>the operation.
>
>
> Agree with that.
>
>
>>Dealing with website developers and "professional"
>>photographers has been a little more squirrelly than I was expecting.
>
>
> Curious. How were they difficult?


That's not really a suitable subject for the newsgroup. I can tell you
about it privately if you'd like. I'm already sick of people nitpicking
and whining about efforts that I've made that are far beyond anything
they will have the guts to do in their entire lives.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>But this time, it's costing you money.
>>>>>Has it ever occurred to you that being perceived as a nice guy has
>>>>
>>>>monetary
>>>>
>>>>>benefits?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A lesson which should be applied to your life experience.
>>>
>>>Why don't you tell us about your ethical system sockpuppet Yustabe? You
>>>know, the one that has allowed you to aid and abet in the posting of
>>>pedophile fantasies on RAO for years.
>>
>
>>Oh, you mean the ongoing discussion initiated by YOU.
>
>
> No, the ongoing discussion of their own pedophile fantasies initiated by
> Middius, Graham and Singh
>
>
>>They are your fantasies, mate.
>
>
> Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in passing that
> I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh started running off at the
> mouth.



Well, when you used the word "had" you did mean sexually, right?

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> trotsky said:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>> Your speakers are a ripoff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>> It's sad
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> Inability to answer the accusation noted. Intellectual vapidity
>>>>> noted. Moral degradation noted.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't it about time you chuck yourself into Lake Michigan?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> George, you're looney tunes. There is no "accusation", just you
>>>> becoming borg.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
>>> compliment.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> My speakers are an exceptionally good value, which should be obvious
>> to anyone that hears them. Borgs tend not to worry about such things.
>
>
> Two words and a figure:
>
> Seas Charis $455
>
> They are at LEAST comparable to your design and cost a third as much.
> No Chinese/etc. built drivers either. Buy the kit, ready to assemble
> in half an hour at Madisound.
>
> Perhaps you should just buy their kit/drivers and alter it a bit -
> mayeb a different cabinet and resell it under your name.


Let me know if you ever grow the necessary genitalia to buy some
speakers yourself, Joe.

[dave weil]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:19:29 -0400, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
> wrote:

>
>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "The Devil" > wrote in message
>> news:dr01ov0nvj5bqstklash9aeilhfu8m0q77@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
>> > On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:39:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in passing
>> that
>> > >I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh started running off at
>the
>> > >mouth.
>>
>> > Don't talk ********, freak. That's the only thing you've ever told the
>> > truth about--that you've had a child.
>>
>> "Had a child" commonly means to be the father or mother of a child. What's
>> wrong with that?
>>
>>
>
>Ok, ok, you had a child... now don't have a cow.

Or a sheep, as the case may be.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:11:59 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>Langis wrote:
>> trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
>>>>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
>>>>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
>>>
>>>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
>>>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
>>>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
>>>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that ever
>>>stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow going
>>>I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I think
>>>is best.
>>
>>
>> Dave is right - I meant it would look better if you used the logo from
>> your site (which does look like a professional job) on the speakers. I
>> don't think it's a trivial point either, this is about perception of
>> your product - a critical matter.
>
>
>Well, I disagree on all counts. First of all, I already knew what you
>were trying to say, so the only thing dave was right about was restating
>the obvious.

Except that your language failed you. Sound familiar?

> Second, I had already spent over three hundred bucks on
>nameplates, and was hardly going to get new ones made at this juncture.
> It's not unusual for a company to redesign their logos as time passes,
>of course. But the most important point is that I don't even agree with
>you about the look of the logo: my logo that's currently on the speakers
>is in keeping with the straight lines and no-nonsense look of the
>speaker. And it looks quite good in the flesh, despite dave's cheap
>shot to the contrary.

If you like cheap bowling trophies, of course.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 02:11:59 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Langis wrote:
> >
> >>trotsky wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
> >>>>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
> >>>>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
> >>>
> >>>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
> >>>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
> >>>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
> >>>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that
> ever
> >>>stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow
> going
> >>>I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I
> think
> >>>is best.
> >>
> >>
> >>Dave is right - I meant it would look better if you used the logo from
> >>your site (which does look like a professional job) on the speakers. I
> >>don't think it's a trivial point either, this is about perception of
> >>your product - a critical matter.
> >
> >
> >Well, I disagree on all counts. First of all, I already knew what you
> >were trying to say, so the only thing dave was right about was restating
> >the obvious.
>
>
> Except that your language failed you. Sound familiar?
>


Not really. I don't see multiple interpretations of "I already had the
logos done before the website..."--do you?

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:

> trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >>>>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
> >>>>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the back
> >>>>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
> >>>
> >>>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
> >>>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
> >>>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
> >>>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that
> ever
> >>>stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow
> going
> >>>I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I
> think
> >>>is best.
> >>
> >>Dave is right - I meant it would look better if you used the logo from
> >>your site (which does look like a professional job) on the speakers. I
> >>don't think it's a trivial point either, this is about perception of
> >>your product - a critical matter.
> >
> >
> >Well, I disagree on all counts. First of all, I already knew what you
> >were trying to say, so the only thing dave was right about was restating
> >the obvious.
>
>
> I think "I could've demanded that the logo from the speaker be used on
> the site" had us both confused. It's the direct opposite of what I
> said.



As I told dave, I think there's only one way to interpret "I already had
the logos done before the website..."


>
>
>
> >Second, I had already spent over three hundred bucks on
> >nameplates, and was hardly going to get new ones made at this juncture.
> > It's not unusual for a company to redesign their logos as time passes,
> >of course. But the most important point is that I don't even agree with
> >you about the look of the logo: my logo that's currently on the speakers
> >is in keeping with the straight lines and no-nonsense look of the
> >speaker. And it looks quite good in the flesh, despite dave's cheap
> >shot to the contrary.
>
>
> OK, you disagree. I maintain that the logo from your website could
> look far more professional on the speakers than the nameplates, to the
> degree that it could influence potential customers perception of the
> product.



I think you're putting too much stock in the look. It's all about the
buzz that's created on the internet--I just have to get some customers
testimonials and/or reviews. So far everybody I've talked to about
reviews has had a "don't call us, we'll call you" attitude, but reviews
are actually the less desirable of the two.


> One thing you could do without further expense is relocate the plates.
> They look a bit weird being so close to the bottom IMO. Perhaps you
> could stick 'em round the back? ;-)


I'll take that under consideration.

>
> >>I also think the photographs on your site don't do the business
> >>justice. They are very professionally done, no question about that -
> >>but the trumpet and vase of flowers are *really* corny. It's a
> >>perception issue again, but these photos do not spell out (to me)
> >>'innovation'. If I was in your shoes I would consider using more
> >>unusual angles, a blurred or obscured background (rather than obvious
> >>backdrop), or better yet beg the use of a cutting edge designer home
> >>for a real world setting, as you might see in the glossies.
> >
> >
> >I don't doubt there is room for improvement, but whose going to do the
> >improving? I don't have the time or money to shop around for multiple
> >photographers and multiple web designers--
>
>
> Weird answer. If the photographer *insists* on photographing the
> speakers like a bowl of fruit, it's a false economy not to find
> another. You ask for what you want and they do it.. right?


Perhaps you can provide a link to a photo or photos that you think are
better.


> >I'm actually quite please what
> >has transpired considering this is the first time I've ever done
> >anything like this. Also, I'd like to know what you're basis for
> >comparison is: most sites from guys flying solo like myself (Ellis, for
> >example) look like a trained ape made them compared to mine.
>
>
> I believe I already praised you for your first efforts.
>
> My basis for comparison would be any impressive or professional
> looking site.



Which is certainly valid, but as far as audio is concerned, I'm already
well ahead of the curve. Granted there's always room for improvement.
All it takes is cash.

>
> >>>As for the serial plate on the back, I do have a very nice gold
> embossed
> >>>sticker that is exactly as you describe it. In hindsight that
> should've
> >>>showed up on the site--it's just another point that adds
> credibility to
> >>>the operation.
> >>
> >>
> >>Agree with that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Dealing with website developers and "professional"
> >>>photographers has been a little more squirrelly than I was expecting.
> >>
> >>
> >>Curious. How were they difficult?
> >
> >
> >That's not really a suitable subject for the newsgroup. I can tell you
> >about it privately if you'd like.
>
>
> Yes, do.
>
>
> >I'm already sick of people nitpicking
> >and whining about efforts that I've made that are far beyond anything
> >they will have the guts to do in their entire lives.
>
>
> "people" in this case obviously refers to me,



No, I didn't mean that--I meant the usual suspects: Krueger, Morion,
ScottW, McKelvy, Oberlander, and, unfortunately, dave weil at this juncture.


> yet your snide remark is
> unfounded - I have had the guts to market a commercial product before,
> and I learned a lot in doing so. I'm sorry for you if you think I'm
> nitpicking - I've been impressed with what you have done so far and my
> comments are constructive.



The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts. In
fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair. Beyond
that, I really do welcome feedback that I deem to be credible, which
yours certainly is.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

> Perhaps you can provide a link to a photo or photos that you think are
> better.
>

The following picture will better characterize your high technology skill.
The artistic level will perfectly fit the high-end design of your
products, especially your "Subterfuge".

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/trex/images/arttwo.jpg

Yours faithfully,
Lionel

[The Devil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:21:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
>scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts. In
>fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair. Beyond
>that, I really do welcome feedback that I deem to be credible, which
>yours certainly is.

What was wrong with dave's review? You asked him to be honest about
his findings, didn't you? So what exactly has he done wrong--besides
not kiss your arse? You were quiet when dave was positive or neutral
in his comments, but as soon as he moved on to talk about your
speakers in the context of his impressions of other speakers, your
mood soured.

I mean, you actually complained to him that he wasn't focusing enough
on the Europa's strengths.

Whose review was this, again?

Are you going to have a petulant fit of control-freakery each time a
reviewer describes your speakers in language you dislike or wish to
outlaw from 'legitimate'* audio discussions? For example, it has
become apparent that the Europas lack the bass extension and power
necessary to convey the energy of a rock performance. dave used the
age old euphemism 'lean' to describe the bass aspect of your
speakers--which as we all know really means that bass extension is
lacking (which is not to say that what's available isn't good--or even
the best). You have yourself said the bass drops off 'like a stone'
below 50Hz. So why bitch about him saying the bass is lean, if that is
his impression of it and dave knows how audiophiles will interpret
that comment?

I mean really, Greg. You've totally ****ed yourself over this whole
thing. You have cast yourself in a dreadful light. I don't think
anyone who has followed this would want to buy speakers from you, not
least because you have shown what a revolting **** of an individual
you become when someone disagrees with you.

How will you react when a reviewer says the Europas are not actually
as good as speakers that cost ten times as much. Or maybe half as
much? What about if a reviewer should say that your speakers aren't
actually as extraordinary as you, their loving father, thinks they
are?

You'll fail at this, Greg. I think everyone sees it except you. You
should buy some cakes (English scones, perhaps). At least get some
satisfaction out of your money while it lasts.

--
td

* Meaning what you say is legitimate.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 18:19:29 -0400, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "The Devil" > wrote in message
>>> news:dr01ov0nvj5bqstklash9aeilhfu8m0q77@rdmzrnewst xt.nz...
>>>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:39:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wrong again! The real problem is that casually I mentioned in
>>>>> passing that I had children, and Middius, Graham and Singh
>>>>> started running off at
>> the
>>>>> mouth.
>>>
>>>> Don't talk ********, freak. That's the only thing you've ever told
>>>> the truth about--that you've had a child.
>>>
>>> "Had a child" commonly means to be the father or mother of a child.
>>> What's wrong with that?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ok, ok, you had a child... now don't have a cow.
>
> Or a sheep, as the case may be.

Speak for yourself, Weil.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:50:09 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Not really. I don't see multiple interpretations of "I already had the
>logos done before the website..."--do you?

When coupled with the phrase "I could've demanded that the logo from
the speaker be used on the site", yes I do.

[Lionel]

The Devil wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:21:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
>>scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts. In
>>fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair. Beyond
>>that, I really do welcome feedback that I deem to be credible, which
>>yours certainly is.
>
>
> What was wrong with dave's review? You asked him to be honest about
> his findings, didn't you? So what exactly has he done wrong--besides
> not kiss your arse? You were quiet when dave was positive or neutral
> in his comments, but as soon as he moved on to talk about your
> speakers in the context of his impressions of other speakers, your
> mood soured.
>
> I mean, you actually complained to him that he wasn't focusing enough
> on the Europa's strengths.
>
> Whose review was this, again?
>
> Are you going to have a petulant fit of control-freakery each time a
> reviewer describes your speakers in language you dislike or wish to
> outlaw from 'legitimate'* audio discussions?

Because you seriously thing that Trostsky will find other reviewers ?

For example, it has
> become apparent that the Europas lack the bass extension and power
> necessary to convey the energy of a rock performance. dave used the
> age old euphemism 'lean' to describe the bass aspect of your
> speakers--which as we all know really means that bass extension is
> lacking (which is not to say that what's available isn't good--or even
> the best). You have yourself said the bass drops off 'like a stone'
> below 50Hz. So why bitch about him saying the bass is lean, if that is
> his impression of it and dave knows how audiophiles will interpret
> that comment?
>

The problem is that, originally, this lack of bass extension is a full
part of his marketing plan :
"Not enough bass ? You need a subterfuge !"

> I mean really, Greg. You've totally ****ed yourself over this whole
> thing. You have cast yourself in a dreadful light. I don't think
> anyone who has followed this would want to buy speakers from you,

"I don't care anyway because I haven't anymore screw to assemble them"

not
> least because you have shown what a revolting **** of an individual
> you become when someone disagrees with you.
>
Imagine the guy who come back with the speakers and the "return policy"
innocently saying :
"Mr. Singh, I have a problem with your speakers !"


> How will you react when a reviewer says the Europas are not actually
> as good as speakers that cost ten times as much. Or maybe half as
> much? What about if a reviewer should say that your speakers aren't
> actually as extraordinary as you, their loving father, thinks they
> are?

"Reviewers ? I will lynch them all"
>
> You'll fail at this, Greg. I think everyone sees it except you. You
> should buy some cakes (English scones, perhaps). At least get some
> satisfaction out of your money while it lasts.
>
> --
> td
>
> * Meaning what you say is legitimate.

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:21:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
>>scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts. In
>>fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair. Beyond
>>that, I really do welcome feedback that I deem to be credible, which
>>yours certainly is.
>
>
> What was wrong with dave's review?


It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it curious,
though, that I've written several notes on the subject and you would
still ask this question.


You asked him to be honest about
> his findings, didn't you?


I'm not sure where you're going with this, Dev. If you can discern what
his findings actually were, then mister you're a better man than I.


So what exactly has he done wrong--besides
> not kiss your arse?


Dev, you claim to be a writer--you should know what bad writing is.
Also, if you think or have ever thought that I would conduct any aspect
without the utmost of integrity than you are unbelievably full of ****e.
I have *never* spammed this group, shilled for anything, or anything
like that.


You were quiet when dave was positive or neutral
> in his comments, but as soon as he moved on to talk about your
> speakers in the context of his impressions of other speakers, your
> mood soured.


That's not accurate. I waited till I thought his review was finished,
and stated what I thought, just as I originally said I was going to. My
position on this is beyond reproach, and yet, in true RAO fashion, some
viper comes slithering out of the woodwork with something erroneous to say.


> I mean, you actually complained to him that he wasn't focusing enough
> on the Europa's strengths.


Bad writing. Audio reviews are full of it (no pun intended).


> Whose review was this, again?


I'm a very critical listener, Dev, and these are very good speakers.
dave did a poor, almost nonexistent job of communicating this fact.


> Are you going to have a petulant fit of control-freakery each time a
> reviewer describes your speakers in language you dislike or wish to
> outlaw from 'legitimate'* audio discussions? For example, it has
> become apparent that the Europas lack the bass extension and power
> necessary to convey the energy of a rock performance. dave used the
> age old euphemism 'lean' to describe the bass aspect of your
> speakers--which as we all know really means that bass extension is
> lacking (which is not to say that what's available isn't good--or even
> the best). You have yourself said the bass drops off 'like a stone'
> below 50Hz. So why bitch about him saying the bass is lean, if that is
> his impression of it and dave knows how audiophiles will interpret
> that comment?


Maybe you weren't following along, drunk or whatever--in dave's mind,
"lean bass" isn't a pejorative term, except that in every other piece of
audio writing since the advent of audio it is. The bass of the Europa
withing its operating range is *very* taut and powerful.


> I mean really, Greg. You've totally ****ed yourself over this whole
> thing.


No, Dev. This is how RAO works: some guys are designated to get dumped
on. Even as vile as Krueger is, he doesn't deserve to be told he ****ed
his dead kid. I don't deserve to be called "Mommy****er" by that sick
******* Middius, either. It's high time for a spade to be called a
spade, and for people like you, Middius, and weil to be told clearly and
succinctly when they are full of ****, and believe me, you are really,
really full of **** on this one. You guys live in a plasticene world
where you think it's foul to be told a discouraging word--the truth.
Sorry, but that isn't going to happen anymore.


You have cast yourself in a dreadful light. I don't think
> anyone who has followed this would want to buy speakers from you, not
> least because you have shown what a revolting **** of an individual
> you become when someone disagrees with you.


I can't believe you have the nerve to say something this wrong--or can
I? If you can ask a guy if he ****ed his dead kid you're pretty much
capable of saying anything, right? What's the matter, Dev, credibility
down the toilet? Damn, I'm all torn up about that. What's with you
guys with rotting brains and incest, anyway? That's not a rhetorical
question, I really want an answer.


> How will you react when a reviewer says the Europas are not actually
> as good as speakers that cost ten times as much.


Are you an idiot, Dev? Have you never seen a manufacturer react
adversely to a professional reviewers opinion? Oh, and lest we forget,
dave's attempt at reviewing was as far from professional as humanly
possible. You can go **** a family member if you don't like what I'm
saying, of course. Get it through your thick skull: there is no more
chosen few around here anymore. Middius had his chance with his Gene
Roddenberry references, I seriously doubt those are of interest to
anyone anymore. You guys can try and institute a hierarchy of incest
references if you want, I'll still make mincemeat out of all of you.


Or maybe half as
> much? What about if a reviewer should say that your speakers aren't
> actually as extraordinary as you, their loving father, thinks they
> are?


Complete the lie, Dev: do you find dave weil more credible on an audio
matter than me?


> You'll fail at this, Greg. I think everyone sees it except you. You
> should buy some cakes (English scones, perhaps). At least get some
> satisfaction out of your money while it lasts.


Perhaps I will fail. There are plenty of assholes in the world, if this
group is any indication. At least I have the backbone to make an
attempt. dave's attempt at audio reviewing was a train wreck, Dev.
Your attempt at chiding me here is a train wreck too. You need to sit
down for a bit and figure out what the truth is, because your track
record of recognizing what's right and wrong sucks quite frankly.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> The Devil wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:21:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
>>> scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts.
>>> In fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair.
>>> Beyond that, I really do welcome feedback that I deem to be credible,
>>> which yours certainly is.
>>
>>
>>
>> What was wrong with dave's review?
>
>
>
> It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it curious,
> though, that I've written several notes on the subject and you would
> still ask this question.
>
>
> You asked him to be honest about
>
>> his findings, didn't you?
>
>
>
> I'm not sure where you're going with this, Dev. If you can discern what
> his findings actually were, then mister you're a better man than I.
>
>
> So what exactly has he done wrong--besides
>
>> not kiss your arse?
>
>
>
> Dev, you claim to be a writer--you should know what bad writing is.
> Also, if you think or have ever thought that I would conduct any aspect
> without the utmost of integrity than you are unbelievably full of ****e.
> I have *never* spammed this group, shilled for anything, or anything
> like that.
>
>
> You were quiet when dave was positive or neutral
>
>> in his comments, but as soon as he moved on to talk about your
>> speakers in the context of his impressions of other speakers, your
>> mood soured.
>
>
>
> That's not accurate. I waited till I thought his review was finished,
> and stated what I thought, just as I originally said I was going to. My
> position on this is beyond reproach, and yet, in true RAO fashion, some
> viper comes slithering out of the woodwork with something erroneous to say.
>
>
>> I mean, you actually complained to him that he wasn't focusing enough
>> on the Europa's strengths.
>
>
>
> Bad writing. Audio reviews are full of it (no pun intended).
>
>
>> Whose review was this, again?
>
>
>
> I'm a very critical listener, Dev, and these are very good speakers.
> dave did a poor, almost nonexistent job of communicating this fact.
>
>
>> Are you going to have a petulant fit of control-freakery each time a
>> reviewer describes your speakers in language you dislike or wish to
>> outlaw from 'legitimate'* audio discussions? For example, it has
>> become apparent that the Europas lack the bass extension and power
>> necessary to convey the energy of a rock performance. dave used the
>> age old euphemism 'lean' to describe the bass aspect of your
>> speakers--which as we all know really means that bass extension is
>> lacking (which is not to say that what's available isn't good--or even
>> the best). You have yourself said the bass drops off 'like a stone'
>> below 50Hz. So why bitch about him saying the bass is lean, if that is
>> his impression of it and dave knows how audiophiles will interpret
>> that comment?
>
>
>
> Maybe you weren't following along, drunk or whatever--in dave's mind,
> "lean bass" isn't a pejorative term, except that in every other piece of
> audio writing since the advent of audio it is. The bass of the Europa
> withing its operating range is *very* taut and powerful.
>
>
>> I mean really, Greg. You've totally ****ed yourself over this whole
>> thing.
>
>
>
> No, Dev. This is how RAO works: some guys are designated to get dumped
> on. Even as vile as Krueger is, he doesn't deserve to be told he ****ed
> his dead kid. I don't deserve to be called "Mommy****er" by that sick
> ******* Middius, either. It's high time for a spade to be called a
> spade, and for people like you, Middius, and weil to be told clearly and
> succinctly when they are full of ****, and believe me, you are really,
> really full of **** on this one. You guys live in a plasticene world
> where you think it's foul to be told a discouraging word--the truth.
> Sorry, but that isn't going to happen anymore.
>
>
> You have cast yourself in a dreadful light. I don't think
>
>> anyone who has followed this would want to buy speakers from you, not
>> least because you have shown what a revolting **** of an individual
>> you become when someone disagrees with you.
>
>
>
> I can't believe you have the nerve to say something this wrong--or can
> I? If you can ask a guy if he ****ed his dead kid you're pretty much
> capable of saying anything, right? What's the matter, Dev, credibility
> down the toilet? Damn, I'm all torn up about that. What's with you
> guys with rotting brains and incest, anyway? That's not a rhetorical
> question, I really want an answer.
>
>
>> How will you react when a reviewer says the Europas are not actually
>> as good as speakers that cost ten times as much.
>
>
>
> Are you an idiot, Dev? Have you never seen a manufacturer react
> adversely to a professional reviewers opinion? Oh, and lest we forget,
> dave's attempt at reviewing was as far from professional as humanly
> possible. You can go **** a family member if you don't like what I'm
> saying, of course. Get it through your thick skull: there is no more
> chosen few around here anymore. Middius had his chance with his Gene
> Roddenberry references, I seriously doubt those are of interest to
> anyone anymore. You guys can try and institute a hierarchy of incest
> references if you want, I'll still make mincemeat out of all of you.
>
>
> Or maybe half as
>
>> much? What about if a reviewer should say that your speakers aren't
>> actually as extraordinary as you, their loving father, thinks they
>> are?
>
>
>
> Complete the lie, Dev: do you find dave weil more credible on an audio
> matter than me?
>
>
>> You'll fail at this, Greg. I think everyone sees it except you. You
>> should buy some cakes (English scones, perhaps). At least get some
>> satisfaction out of your money while it lasts.
>
>
>
> Perhaps I will fail. There are plenty of assholes in the world, if this
> group is any indication. At least I have the backbone to make an
> attempt.


"At least I have the backbone to make an attempt..."

This guy is totally insane he should be urgently directed to a
psychiatric hospital. TOO MUCH !

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:15:13 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>That's not accurate. I waited till I thought his review was finished,
>and stated what I thought, just as I originally said I was going to. My
>position on this is beyond reproach,

Sure it is. If you thought the review was finished, you either weren't
paying attention *or* you were an idiot. Which is it?

Oh wait, here's another possibility, you didn't get to the part where
I said, "Well, this has gone on long enough. I'll try to listen to
some classical later in the day and get back to everyone". |And even
if you had, maybe you forgot that I was going to do direct comparisons
with the Klipsches and Allisons and I was going to bring in a
wonderful sounding tube amp as well.

My guess? You saw part three and decided that was it. I think it seems
pretty clear that, in the end, I wsn't holding to a strict numbering
scheme. maybe this ****es you off - I thought I was doing the right
thing by keeping the segments digestable. I guess I was wrong.

I guess my other big sin was trying to be as comprehensive as
possible, using as wide a variety of music as possible and spending
more than just a few minutes listening to the speakers.

Or maybe, my big sin was not buying your claims hook, line or sinker.

Frankly, if you think this is about the most neutral speaker you've
ever heard, it cast doubts on the speakers that you *have* been
listening to (and this has nothing to do with the "bass issue"
either). Of maybe you haven't bothered to listen to anything other
than jazz or classical either. Because, if you had, you'd realize that
this speaker is somewhat colored in the upper bass/lower midrange,
especially at volume about 95 dB. Still, in blance, it's a nice
sounding speaker - as I continually pointed out throughout the review.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:50:09 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>Not really. I don't see multiple interpretations of "I already had the
>>logos done before the website..."--do you?
>
>
> When coupled with the phrase "I could've demanded that the logo from
> the speaker be used on the site", yes I do.



You're head's full of swiss cheese, dave.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:39:42 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 09:50:09 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Not really. I don't see multiple interpretations of "I already had the
>>>logos done before the website..."--do you?
>>
>>
>> When coupled with the phrase "I could've demanded that the logo from
>> the speaker be used on the site", yes I do.
>
>
>
>You're head's full of swiss cheese, dave.

In English please.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:


> Frankly, if you think this is about the most neutral speaker you've
> ever heard, it cast doubts on the speakers that you *have* been
> listening to (and this has nothing to do with the "bass issue"
> either).


It doesn't? Are you pretending your "I've taken acid till it's coming
out my ears" definition of the word "neutral" in an audio context never
happened?


Of maybe you haven't bothered to listen to anything other
> than jazz or classical either. Because, if you had, you'd realize that
> this speaker is somewhat colored in the upper bass/lower midrange,
> especially at volume about 95 dB. Still, in blance, it's a nice
> sounding speaker - as I continually pointed out throughout the review.


"One dimentional" (sic) is not nice, dave. "Lean bass" isn't nice,
either, even if you mean it "in the best possible way." Not knowing
what "neutral" means doesn't help either. In fact, at some point I just
realized nothing worthwhile is being communicated. You are free to like
or dislike the speaker, I NEVER said anything about that. But, if you
are so high on life that you can't communicate what it is you actually
heard, then the whole thing is just a waste of my time. I freely admit
that I made a mistake by overestimating your potential to evaluate an
audio product. I can live with that. I can't live with the lies about
your egesting a pile of turds and calling it a coherent statement. I
also really, really hold it against you that you can dish it out but you
can't take it. You claimed you expected a rebuttal from me and then
****ed all over it when I provided one. You guys have been deplorable
about this. But I should be happy, right? At least you're not calling
me "Mommy****er", right dave? Why don't you tell Middius what a piece
of **** he is first, and then you can get to my alleged transgressions.
Unless, of course, being fair in your criticisms was never what you
were after in the first place.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:
>
>
> dave weil wrote:
>
>
>> Frankly, if you think this is about the most neutral speaker you've
>> ever heard, it cast doubts on the speakers that you *have* been
>> listening to (and this has nothing to do with the "bass issue"
>> either).
>
>
>
> It doesn't? Are you pretending your "I've taken acid till it's coming
> out my ears" definition of the word "neutral" in an audio context never
> happened?
>
>
> Of maybe you haven't bothered to listen to anything other
>
>> than jazz or classical either. Because, if you had, you'd realize that
>> this speaker is somewhat colored in the upper bass/lower midrange,
>> especially at volume about 95 dB. Still, in blance, it's a nice
>> sounding speaker - as I continually pointed out throughout the review.
>
>
>
> "One dimentional" (sic) is not nice, dave. "Lean bass" isn't nice,
> either, even if you mean it "in the best possible way." Not knowing
> what "neutral" means doesn't help either. In fact, at some point I just
> realized nothing worthwhile is being communicated. You are free to like
> or dislike the speaker, I NEVER said anything about that. But, if you
> are so high on life that you can't communicate what it is you actually
> heard, then the whole thing is just a waste of my time. I freely admit
> that I made a mistake by overestimating your potential to evaluate an
> audio product. I can live with that. I can't live with the lies about
> your egesting a pile of turds and calling it a coherent statement. I
> also really, really hold it against you that you can dish it out but you
> can't take it. You claimed you expected a rebuttal from me and then
> ****ed all over it when I provided one. You guys have been deplorable
> about this. But I should be happy, right? At least you're not calling
> me "Mommy****er", right dave? Why don't you tell Middius what a piece
> of **** he is first, and then you can get to my alleged transgressions.
> Unless, of course, being fair in your criticisms was never what you
> were after in the first place.
>

Trotsky, you are a loser. Do you hear me ?
*LOSER* :
# noun: a person with a record of failing; someone who loses consistently.

The strange thing with authentic losers like you it's that they cannot
accept to lose decently, quietly in one word *alone*.
We acknowledge here that Dave has been a little bit too naive but you
are not obliged to try to drown him in Jupiter-Audio's naufrage.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

>> Whose review was this, again?
>
> I'm a very critical listener, Dev, and these are very good speakers.
> dave did a poor, almost nonexistent job of communicating this fact.

LMAO. What a rube you are, Greg.

"These are very good speakers. The reviewer did a poor job of communicating
this fact"

LOL. You honhestly have to idea how anal, ivory tower condescending
and biased you sounded there, did you? I love the term nonexistant.
That should tell you how much your ego is coloring your perceptions.

Fact: You only want reviews that are 100% positive to use as ad copy.

Greg:
They are very good speakers. That's a fact. I cannot be wrong.

Reviewer:
They are okay speakers.

Greg:
WTF? You are WRONG. How can you not think they are the best thing
ever?

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:52:00 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>
>
>> Frankly, if you think this is about the most neutral speaker you've
>> ever heard, it cast doubts on the speakers that you *have* been
>> listening to (and this has nothing to do with the "bass issue"
>> either).
>
>
>It doesn't? Are you pretending your "I've taken acid till it's coming
>out my ears" definition of the word "neutral" in an audio context never
>happened?

No I'm not. I'm also not pretending that it's the only issue involved
in neutrality.

> Of maybe you haven't bothered to listen to anything other
>> than jazz or classical either. Because, if you had, you'd realize that
>> this speaker is somewhat colored in the upper bass/lower midrange,
>> especially at volume about 95 dB. Still, in blance, it's a nice
>> sounding speaker - as I continually pointed out throughout the review.
>
>
>"One dimentional" (sic) is not nice, dave.

Please put this comment in context. I don't think I ever declared the
speaker to be one diment/sional.

> "Lean bass" isn't nice, either, even if you mean it "in the best possible way."

It's far preferable to bloated bass, that's for sure. However, when it
comes to rock music, I'd prefer not to have to spend another $1500 to
get the bass necessary tomake it sound even remotely "life-like", Of
course, you might never have seen a real live rock concert, although I
know this not to be true, so I have to wonder if you were paying
attention.

> Not knowing what "neutral" means doesn't help either.

I know what "neutral" means to me.

> In fact, at some point I just realized nothing worthwhile is being communicated.

<shrug>

It's about as "worthwhile" as the designer delcaring "The Europa has a
zippy, dynamic quality that speakers costing ten times as much often
can't equal. It also has a neutrality from top to bottom that is
exceptional". It's just self-serving palaver taken on its own.

>You are free to like
>or dislike the speaker, I NEVER said anything about that. But, if you
>are so high on life that you can't communicate what it is you actually
>heard, then the whole thing is just a waste of my time. I freely admit
>that I made a mistake by overestimating your potential to evaluate an
>audio product. I can live with that. I can't live with the lies about
>your egesting a pile of turds and calling it a coherent statement. I
>also really, really hold it against you that you can dish it out but you
>can't take it.

Now *this* is choice, coming from you.

>You claimed you expected a rebuttal from me and then
>****ed all over it when I provided one. You guys have been deplorable
>about this. But I should be happy, right? At least you're not calling
>me "Mommy****er", right dave? Why don't you tell Middius what a piece
>of **** he is first, and then you can get to my alleged transgressions.
> Unless, of course, being fair in your criticisms was never what you
>were after in the first place.

Oh yes, this is the reason I wasted a bunch of my time. I've got
nothing better to do than to trap you and make you waste moeny sending
me speakers to listen to. Right.

BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
sales.

[The Devil]

>The Devil wrote:

>> What was wrong with dave's review?

>It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it curious,
>though, that I've written several notes on the subject and you would
>still ask this question.

I would have thought the reason was obvious. I don't understand what
was wrong with his review--besides his unfortunate unwillingness to
blow kisses all over your product, of course.

You asked the man to do you a favour. He agreed. He gets the speakers
and obviously sets aside quite a bit of his own time to give them an
exhaustive appraisal. At first, when dave seems positive, you are
quietly pleasant and cooing away like a fat little hen with a
screwdriver and popadom. But as soon as dave hits the nitty-gritty
issues, you wail and cry foul--you're not supposed to say that! That's
being negative! My speakers are mother****ing excellent in every
mother****ing aspect of performance imaginable, you dumb *******! You
couldn't hear your way out of a paper bag, you stupid ****ing
drug-addled junkie hillbilly! You then insult the intelligence of
everyone here with a dishonest, rambling, poisonous litany of reasons
why dave was never actually qualified to judge your speakers anyway.
What a piece of crap you are.

Let's face it: All this happened because dave dared to share an honest
impression of your speakers, an impression that obviously disagreed
with your own, much superior impression.

Spoilt ****ing brat, you are, Greg.

I don't need to read the rest of your post. I can imagine what comes
next, and I don't have the time.

In conclusion, may I join dave in wishing you the success that you
deserve.

But I will say it: You deserve to fail, and fail you will. Anyone who
buys speaker kits from Madisound and sells them as their own design is
destined to fail. You haven't got the first idea what you're doing.
You know it, I know it, and I suspect everyone else here knows it too.

--
td

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:
> Langis wrote:
>
>> trotsky wrote:
>>
>>
>> >>>>I think it would better if you used the Jupiter graphic logo (from
>> >>>>your site) on the front. You presumably put a serial plate on the
>> back
>> >>>>- the full name, db ratings etc, could go there.
>> >>>
>> >>>That's a valid point--except that I already had the logos done before
>> >>>the website was made. I could've demanded that the logo from the
>> >>>speaker be used on the site, but since I've never done this kind of
>> >>>thing before I didn't want to sound ****y. (I know--when did that
>> ever
>> >>>stop me before.) At some point in time when I get some cash flow
>> going
>> >>>I'll probably have the site redesigned more in keeping with what I
>> think
>> >>>is best.
>> >>
>> >>Dave is right - I meant it would look better if you used the logo from
>> >>your site (which does look like a professional job) on the speakers. I
>> >>don't think it's a trivial point either, this is about perception of
>> >>your product - a critical matter.
>> >
>> >
>> >Well, I disagree on all counts. First of all, I already knew what you
>> >were trying to say, so the only thing dave was right about was restating
>> >the obvious.
>>
>>
>> I think "I could've demanded that the logo from the speaker be used on
>> the site" had us both confused. It's the direct opposite of what I
>> said.
>
>
>
>
> As I told dave, I think there's only one way to interpret "I already had
> the logos done before the website..."
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Second, I had already spent over three hundred bucks on
>> >nameplates, and was hardly going to get new ones made at this juncture.
>> > It's not unusual for a company to redesign their logos as time passes,
>> >of course. But the most important point is that I don't even agree with
>> >you about the look of the logo: my logo that's currently on the speakers
>> >is in keeping with the straight lines and no-nonsense look of the
>> >speaker. And it looks quite good in the flesh, despite dave's cheap
>> >shot to the contrary.
>>
>>
>> OK, you disagree. I maintain that the logo from your website could
>> look far more professional on the speakers than the nameplates, to the
>> degree that it could influence potential customers perception of the
>> product.
>
>
>
>
> I think you're putting too much stock in the look. It's all about the
> buzz that's created on the internet--I just have to get some customers
> testimonials and/or reviews. So far everybody I've talked to about
> reviews has had a "don't call us, we'll call you" attitude, but reviews
> are actually the less desirable of the two.
>
>
>> One thing you could do without further expense is relocate the plates.
>> They look a bit weird being so close to the bottom IMO. Perhaps you
>> could stick 'em round the back? ;-)
>
>
>
> I'll take that under consideration.
>
>>
>> >>I also think the photographs on your site don't do the business
>> >>justice. They are very professionally done, no question about that -
>> >>but the trumpet and vase of flowers are *really* corny. It's a
>> >>perception issue again, but these photos do not spell out (to me)
>> >>'innovation'. If I was in your shoes I would consider using more
>> >>unusual angles, a blurred or obscured background (rather than obvious
>> >>backdrop), or better yet beg the use of a cutting edge designer home
>> >>for a real world setting, as you might see in the glossies.
>> >
>> >
>> >I don't doubt there is room for improvement, but whose going to do the
>> >improving? I don't have the time or money to shop around for multiple
>> >photographers and multiple web designers--
>>
>>
>> Weird answer. If the photographer *insists* on photographing the
>> speakers like a bowl of fruit, it's a false economy not to find
>> another. You ask for what you want and they do it.. right?
>
>
>
> Perhaps you can provide a link to a photo or photos that you think are
> better.
>
>
>> >I'm actually quite please what
>> >has transpired considering this is the first time I've ever done
>> >anything like this. Also, I'd like to know what you're basis for
>> >comparison is: most sites from guys flying solo like myself (Ellis, for
>> >example) look like a trained ape made them compared to mine.
>>
>>
>> I believe I already praised you for your first efforts.
>>
>> My basis for comparison would be any impressive or professional
>> looking site.
>
>
>
>
> Which is certainly valid, but as far as audio is concerned, I'm already
> well ahead of the curve. Granted there's always room for improvement.
> All it takes is cash.
>
>>
>> >>>As for the serial plate on the back, I do have a very nice gold
>> embossed
>> >>>sticker that is exactly as you describe it. In hindsight that
>> should've
>> >>>showed up on the site--it's just another point that adds
>> credibility to
>> >>>the operation.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Agree with that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>Dealing with website developers and "professional"
>> >>>photographers has been a little more squirrelly than I was expecting.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Curious. How were they difficult?
>> >
>> >
>> >That's not really a suitable subject for the newsgroup. I can tell you
>> >about it privately if you'd like.
>>
>>
>> Yes, do.
>>
>>
>> >I'm already sick of people nitpicking
>> >and whining about efforts that I've made that are far beyond anything
>> >they will have the guts to do in their entire lives.
>>
>>
>> "people" in this case obviously refers to me,
>
>
>
>
> No, I didn't mean that--I meant the usual suspects: Krueger, Morion,
> ScottW, McKelvy, Oberlander, and, unfortunately, dave weil at this
> juncture.
>
>
>> yet your snide remark is
>> unfounded - I have had the guts to market a commercial product before,
>> and I learned a lot in doing so. I'm sorry for you if you think I'm
>> nitpicking - I've been impressed with what you have done so far and my
>> comments are constructive.
>
>
>
>
> The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
> scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts. In
> fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair. Beyond
> that, I really do welcome feedback that I deem to be credible, which
> yours certainly is.
>

Kamikaze ? ;-)

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>>> Whose review was this, again?
>>
>>
>> I'm a very critical listener, Dev, and these are very good speakers.
>> dave did a poor, almost nonexistent job of communicating this fact.
>
>
> LMAO. What a rube you are, Greg.
>
> "These are very good speakers. The reviewer did a poor job of communicating
> this fact"
>
> LOL. You honhestly have to idea how anal, ivory tower condescending
> and biased you sounded there, did you?


Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to prove you
understand.

[Lionel]

The Devil wrote:

>>The Devil wrote:
>
>
>>>What was wrong with dave's review?
>
>
>>It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it curious,
>>though, that I've written several notes on the subject and you would
>>still ask this question.
>
>
> I would have thought the reason was obvious. I don't understand what
> was wrong with his review--besides his unfortunate unwillingness to
> blow kisses all over your product, of course.
>
> You asked the man to do you a favour. He agreed. He gets the speakers
> and obviously sets aside quite a bit of his own time to give them an
> exhaustive appraisal. At first, when dave seems positive, you are
> quietly pleasant and cooing away like a fat little hen with a
> screwdriver and popadom. But as soon as dave hits the nitty-gritty
> issues, you wail and cry foul--you're not supposed to say that! That's
> being negative! My speakers are mother****ing excellent in every
> mother****ing aspect of performance imaginable, you dumb *******! You
> couldn't hear your way out of a paper bag, you stupid ****ing
> drug-addled junkie hillbilly! You then insult the intelligence of
> everyone here with a dishonest, rambling, poisonous litany of reasons
> why dave was never actually qualified to judge your speakers anyway.
> What a piece of crap you are.
>
> Let's face it: All this happened because dave dared to share an honest
> impression of your speakers, an impression that obviously disagreed
> with your own, much superior impression.
>
> Spoilt ****ing brat, you are, Greg.
>
> I don't need to read the rest of your post. I can imagine what comes
> next, and I don't have the time.
>
> In conclusion, may I join dave in wishing you the success that you
> deserve.
>
> But I will say it: You deserve to fail, and fail you will. Anyone who
> buys speaker kits from Madisound and sells them as their own design is
> destined to fail. You haven't got the first idea what you're doing.
> You know it, I know it, and I suspect everyone else here knows it too.
>
> --
> td

[Lionel]

The Devil wrote:

>>The Devil wrote:
>
>
>>>What was wrong with dave's review?
>
>
>>It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it curious,
>>though, that I've written several notes on the subject and you would
>>still ask this question.
>
>
> I would have thought the reason was obvious. I don't understand what
> was wrong with his review--besides his unfortunate unwillingness to
> blow kisses all over your product, of course.
>
> You asked the man to do you a favour. He agreed. He gets the speakers
> and obviously sets aside quite a bit of his own time to give them an
> exhaustive appraisal. At first, when dave seems positive, you are
> quietly pleasant and cooing away like a fat little hen with a
> screwdriver and popadom. But as soon as dave hits the nitty-gritty
> issues, you wail and cry foul--you're not supposed to say that! That's
> being negative! My speakers are mother****ing excellent in every
> mother****ing aspect of performance imaginable, you dumb *******! You
> couldn't hear your way out of a paper bag, you stupid ****ing
> drug-addled junkie hillbilly! You then insult the intelligence of
> everyone here with a dishonest, rambling, poisonous litany of reasons
> why dave was never actually qualified to judge your speakers anyway.
> What a piece of crap you are.
>
> Let's face it: All this happened because dave dared to share an honest
> impression of your speakers, an impression that obviously disagreed
> with your own, much superior impression.
>
> Spoilt ****ing brat, you are, Greg.
>
> I don't need to read the rest of your post. I can imagine what comes
> next, and I don't have the time.
>
> In conclusion, may I join dave in wishing you the success that you
> deserve.
>
> But I will say it: You deserve to fail, and fail you will. Anyone who
> buys speaker kits from Madisound and sells them as their own design is
> destined to fail. You haven't got the first idea what you're doing.
> You know it, I know it, and I suspect everyone else here knows it too.
>
> --
> td

Is Jupiter-Audio a Madisound's subsidiary ? ;-)

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:52:00 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Frankly, if you think this is about the most neutral speaker you've
>>>ever heard, it cast doubts on the speakers that you *have* been
>>>listening to (and this has nothing to do with the "bass issue"
>>>either).
>>
>>
>>It doesn't? Are you pretending your "I've taken acid till it's coming
>>out my ears" definition of the word "neutral" in an audio context never
>>happened?
>
>
> No I'm not. I'm also not pretending that it's the only issue involved
> in neutrality.


What are you pretending, then?


>> Of maybe you haven't bothered to listen to anything other
>>
>>>than jazz or classical either. Because, if you had, you'd realize that
>>>this speaker is somewhat colored in the upper bass/lower midrange,
>>>especially at volume about 95 dB. Still, in blance, it's a nice
>>>sounding speaker - as I continually pointed out throughout the review.
>>
>>
>>"One dimentional" (sic) is not nice, dave.
>
>
> Please put this comment in context. I don't think I ever declared the
> speaker to be one diment/sional.


Okay:

> For contrast, I played the late 70s Boston group Robin Lane and the
> Chartbusters. I put on the second album, Imitation Life, which has a
> sort of "wall of sound", fairly compressed sound to it. On the
> Klipsches, the sound is large and pretty powerful, but one
> dimentional. On the Europas, they're just one dimensional.




>>"Lean bass" isn't nice, either, even if you mean it "in the best possible way."
>
>
> It's far preferable to bloated bass, that's for sure. However, when it
> comes to rock music, I'd prefer not to have to spend another $1500 to
> get the bass necessary tomake it sound even remotely "life-like", Of
> course, you might never have seen a real live rock concert, although I
> know this not to be true, so I have to wonder if you were paying
> attention.


But all you're really saying is that a sound that is more full range to
you is preferable to sonic accuracy. In fact, issues of clarity and
neutrality never even enter this statement, as if you are saying a pair
of stage monitors is as good as it gets, which is just bull****
regardless of the kind of music you're listening to.


>>Not knowing what "neutral" means doesn't help either.
>
>
> I know what "neutral" means to me.


And that's supposed to mean what to the rest of humanity?


>>In fact, at some point I just realized nothing worthwhile is being communicated.
>
>
> <shrug>
>
> It's about as "worthwhile" as the designer delcaring "The Europa has a
> zippy, dynamic quality that speakers costing ten times as much often
> can't equal. It also has a neutrality from top to bottom that is
> exceptional". It's just self-serving palaver taken on its own.


Except it's all true.


>>You are free to like
>>or dislike the speaker, I NEVER said anything about that. But, if you
>>are so high on life that you can't communicate what it is you actually
>>heard, then the whole thing is just a waste of my time. I freely admit
>>that I made a mistake by overestimating your potential to evaluate an
>>audio product. I can live with that. I can't live with the lies about
>>your egesting a pile of turds and calling it a coherent statement. I
>>also really, really hold it against you that you can dish it out but you
>>can't take it.
>
>
> Now *this* is choice, coming from you.


I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but that's becoming a
running theme. I'm guessing the rest of the peanut gallery can't
interpret it either.



>>You claimed you expected a rebuttal from me and then
>>****ed all over it when I provided one. You guys have been deplorable
>>about this. But I should be happy, right? At least you're not calling
>>me "Mommy****er", right dave? Why don't you tell Middius what a piece
>>of **** he is first, and then you can get to my alleged transgressions.
>> Unless, of course, being fair in your criticisms was never what you
>>were after in the first place.
>
>
> Oh yes, this is the reason I wasted a bunch of my time. I've got
> nothing better to do than to trap you and make you waste moeny sending
> me speakers to listen to. Right.
>
> BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
> I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
> sales.


Thanks. I guess I'm still the litmus test that gets to show how far you
can stray from your own personal ideals. You're just another jack-off
walking around thinking that you're wishing people well, but instead
you're the living embodiment of "Positively 4th Street". Kudos.

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
>>The Devil wrote:
>
>
>>>What was wrong with dave's review?
>>
>
>>It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it curious,
>>though, that I've written several notes on the subject and you would
>>still ask this question.
>
>
> I would have thought the reason was obvious. I don't understand what
> was wrong with his review--besides his unfortunate unwillingness to
> blow kisses all over your product, of course.
>
> You asked the man to do you a favour.


Stick a fork in yourself, Dev, you're done. You don't get to comment on
my business unless you can grow some ******** and leave the realm of the
anonymice. You want to talk about my speakers? Fine, quid pro quo:
I'll give you the same offer I gave Bob Morion--let's talk about your
writing as a counter. Assuming you even are a writer. Then again, we
could talk about your family--assuming you have one. You and George
play the same bull**** game from the same bull**** position of
anonymity. It's hard to believe, but even Krueger isn't this cowardly.
He's just as much of a dick, of course, but at least he's not a coward
with respect to his identity. Not so "Devil" or whatever his actual
name is. You just sit around and wait for some guy like myself with a
real identity and real personal information to swoop down upon and dump
some hateful and hate-filled remarks. Naturally, for convenience, facts
don't even enter into these remarks, as we can see on this thread. But
I'll tell you what, if you want to discuss something from your position
of anonymity, I'll throw you a bone: you can discuss why assholes like
yourself and George gravitate toward those incestual comments. Come on,
you're not afraid to discuss things all of a sudden, are you?

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:
>

*STOP* now bloody ******* ! *STOP* !
You will never be able to sell your ****ing tins ok, so your story
hasn't anymore interest for anybody here.
You are a loser, you lose so you should be happy now...

LOL

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> The Devil wrote:
>
>>> The Devil wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>> What was wrong with dave's review?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> It would be easier to ask what was right with it. I do find it
>>> curious, though, that I've written several notes on the subject and
>>> you would still ask this question.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would have thought the reason was obvious. I don't understand what
>> was wrong with his review--besides his unfortunate unwillingness to
>> blow kisses all over your product, of course.
>>
>> You asked the man to do you a favour.
>
>
>
> Stick a fork in yourself, Dev, you're done. You don't get to comment on
> my business unless you can grow some ******** and leave the realm of the
> anonymice. You want to talk about my speakers? Fine, quid pro quo:
> I'll give you the same offer I gave Bob Morion--let's talk about your
> writing as a counter. Assuming you even are a writer. Then again, we
> could talk about your family--assuming you have one. You and George
> play the same bull**** game from the same bull**** position of
> anonymity. It's hard to believe, but even Krueger isn't this cowardly.
> He's just as much of a dick, of course, but at least he's not a coward
> with respect to his identity. Not so "Devil" or whatever his actual
> name is. You just sit around and wait for some guy like myself with a
> real identity and real personal information to swoop down upon and dump
> some hateful and hate-filled remarks. Naturally, for convenience, facts
> don't even enter into these remarks, as we can see on this thread. But
> I'll tell you what, if you want to discuss something from your position
> of anonymity, I'll throw you a bone: you can discuss why assholes like
> yourself and George gravitate toward those incestual comments. Come on,
> you're not afraid to discuss things all of a sudden, are you?
>

This is a typical loser's reaction.
He exhibits his poor life, his total defeat, his bull**** attempts to be
a real human being... But as soon as you confirm him he is really what
he shows to the world he cries like a baby in a succession of revolt and
depression.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:49:56 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 16:52:00 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Frankly, if you think this is about the most neutral speaker you've
>>>>ever heard, it cast doubts on the speakers that you *have* been
>>>>listening to (and this has nothing to do with the "bass issue"
>>>>either).
>>>
>>>
>>>It doesn't? Are you pretending your "I've taken acid till it's coming
>>>out my ears" definition of the word "neutral" in an audio context never
>>>happened?
>>
>>
>> No I'm not. I'm also not pretending that it's the only issue involved
>> in neutrality.
>
>
>What are you pretending, then?

I wasn't pretending anything. I was pointing out that I was talking
about the bass issue. Since I've only brought up one other observation
that relates to this, then obviously it refers to *that* issue and
that's the issue of the "congestion" that I found in certain
programming. I also took pains to note that this didn't occur in all
forms of music, nor in all forms of rock either.

>>> Of maybe you haven't bothered to listen to anything other
>>>
>>>>than jazz or classical either. Because, if you had, you'd realize that
>>>>this speaker is somewhat colored in the upper bass/lower midrange,
>>>>especially at volume about 95 dB. Still, in blance, it's a nice
>>>>sounding speaker - as I continually pointed out throughout the review.
>>>
>>>
>>>"One dimentional" (sic) is not nice, dave.
>>
>>
>> Please put this comment in context. I don't think I ever declared the
>> speaker to be one diment/sional.
>
>
>Okay:
>
>> For contrast, I played the late 70s Boston group Robin Lane and the
>> Chartbusters. I put on the second album, Imitation Life, which has a
>> sort of "wall of sound", fairly compressed sound to it. On the
>> Klipsches, the sound is large and pretty powerful, but one
>> dimentional. On the Europas, they're just one dimensional.

Right. This shows that the program material is one-dimensional, not
the speaker. The speaker *does not* have the authority to provide a
powerful bass to accompany that particular music, and that music
*needs* the underpinning of said bass.

>>>"Lean bass" isn't nice, either, even if you mean it "in the best possible way."
>>
>>
>> It's far preferable to bloated bass, that's for sure. However, when it
>> comes to rock music, I'd prefer not to have to spend another $1500 to
>> get the bass necessary to make it sound even remotely "life-like", Of
>> course, you might never have seen a real live rock concert, although I
>> know this not to be true, so I have to wonder if you were paying
>> attention.
>
>
>But all you're really saying is that a sound that is more full range to
>you is preferable to sonic accuracy.

No, not necessarily. I pointed out numerous aspects of your speakers
that were worthy of complimentary comments. I also pointed out areas
that I thought that they *weren't* "accurate". If you wanted a typical
no negatives magazine review, which you seem to be desirous of, you
obviously came to the wrong place. I made sure that you understood
from the beginning that I was going to call it as I see it. The fact
that you disagree doesn't surprise me - just the manner in which you
did it.

> In fact, issues of clarity and
>neutrality never even enter this statement, as if you are saying a pair
>of stage monitors is as good as it gets, which is just bull****
>regardless of the kind of music you're listening to.

Of course it doesn't enter this statement. "Clarity" and "neutrality"
don't really enter into the equation when it comes to this particular
recording. That would be like trying to decide how "clearly" a record
protrays a Phil Spector record. It's an exercise in futility. That's
why I didn't bother. That *is* why I chose other types of rock music
to explore those issues - things like Bryan Ferry, Kate Bush, Spike,
by Elvis Costello and other things that I hadn't had the chance to
comment on yet, like Atom Heart Mother (Mofi), Heart's Dog and
Butterfly, and the like.

>>>Not knowing what "neutral" means doesn't help either.
>>
>>
>> I know what "neutral" means to me.
>
>
>And that's supposed to mean what to the rest of humanity?

Hopefully, they'll get a measure of what it means to me after reading
the entire set of reviews and maybe they can figure it out on their
own.

>>>In fact, at some point I just realized nothing worthwhile is being communicated.
>>
>>
>> <shrug>
>>
>> It's about as "worthwhile" as the designer delcaring "The Europa has a
>> zippy, dynamic quality that speakers costing ten times as much often
>> can't equal. It also has a neutrality from top to bottom that is
>> exceptional". It's just self-serving palaver taken on its own.
>
>
>Except it's all true.

No it's not. And that's a fact. Maybe you can find a dopey sounding
speaker that costs 10 times as much to serve your argument, but
someone might also find a speaker that costs half as much that can say
the same thing about *your* speaker vis a vis that speaker. Your
hyperbolizing doesn't serve you well when you're trying to proclaim
how *different* you are from everyone else. Saying that your speaker
is 1000 better than the Cornwall is just another example. I'mnot even
sure you've even heard that speaker.

>>>You are free to like
>>>or dislike the speaker, I NEVER said anything about that. But, if you
>>>are so high on life that you can't communicate what it is you actually
>>>heard, then the whole thing is just a waste of my time. I freely admit
>>>that I made a mistake by overestimating your potential to evaluate an
>>>audio product. I can live with that. I can't live with the lies about
>>>your egesting a pile of turds and calling it a coherent statement. I
>>>also really, really hold it against you that you can dish it out but you
>>>can't take it.
>>
>>
>> Now *this* is choice, coming from you.
>
>
>I have no idea what you are trying to say here, but that's becoming a
>running theme. I'm guessing the rest of the peanut gallery can't
>interpret it either.

It means that you can dish it out but you can't take it. I'm sure that
most people agree with me. But that's part of your puersecution
complex - everyone's wrong and they're picking on you. This is the
virtual equivalent of a health club locker room.
>
>>>You claimed you expected a rebuttal from me and then
>>>****ed all over it when I provided one. You guys have been deplorable
>>>about this. But I should be happy, right? At least you're not calling
>>>me "Mommy****er", right dave? Why don't you tell Middius what a piece
>>>of **** he is first, and then you can get to my alleged transgressions.
>>> Unless, of course, being fair in your criticisms was never what you
>>>were after in the first place.
>>
>>
>> Oh yes, this is the reason I wasted a bunch of my time. I've got
>> nothing better to do than to trap you and make you waste moeny sending
>> me speakers to listen to. Right.
>>
>> BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>> I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>> sales.
>
>
>Thanks. I guess I'm still the litmus test that gets to show how far you
>can stray from your own personal ideals. You're just another jack-off
>walking around thinking that you're wishing people well, but instead
>you're the living embodiment of "Positively 4th Street". Kudos.

Aren't you being an asshole by not attribution this quote? Isn't that
the Trotsky Gold Standard?

[Guilty Bystander]

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:39:14 GMT, trotsky > wrote
the following:

>
>
>George M. Middius wrote:

>> "Your speakers are a ripoff." Perhaps you thought that was a
>> compliment.
>
>
>My speakers are an exceptionally good value, which should be obvious
to
>anyone that hears them. Borgs tend not to worry about such things.
>
>
>
Greg, I was wondering if these are the specific model numbers and
types of speakers and/or componentry that the Europa's are made of?

W20RC-38-08 (8 inch Woofer) 26.60 (X2)
YAG-20 8 ohms 3 kHz -20 kHz 90 2.5"x6.12" 3.5"x6.62 27.50 (X2)
(www.madisound.com)

Cabinets 3/4 MDF (~ $35.00 a sheet) X2 for mistakes and such.
(various Lowe's, Wolohan or Home Depot stores throughout the U.S.)

Crossover network -- Unknown

Binding Post --$8.10 (www.madisound.com)

Veneer -- (That's coupled into the cost of the MDF -- after all that's
one of the ways it's sold - prelaminated, you can get it unlaminated,
but why bother with the hassle of cutting laminate and gluing it on)

All that together comes up to $194.40 (not counting the crossover)

Given that I don't know whether or not you self laminate, or the cost
of the crossover, my figures are not quite accurate. However taking
into account the average across the board, I'd give that the crossover
probably runs around $25.00 and if you self laminate, well, that could
cost a couple hundred.

Totals up to around 420.00 for a pair. That leaves a nice $930.00 for
labor and profit margin. From that standpoint, no they don't seem like
an exceptionally good value. But then of course, I haven't heard them.
(and that's what really matters).

Music -- a discordance of noise pleasing to at least one aural
receptor in the mass.....

Mike.

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:43:06 GMT, Guilty Bystander >
wrote:

>Binding Post --$8.10 (www.madisound.com)

That does *not* appear to be the same binding post module (TD-CUP).
The one pictured on the web site has some additional brass that
doesn't seem present on the Europa. Maybe thy've redesigned it or
there are several variations though.

Also, I need to point out that Greg didn't bother to send the bridging
straps with the speaker. I used my own Hovland straps.

[Lionel]

dave weil wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:43:06 GMT, Guilty Bystander >
> wrote:
>
>
>>Binding Post --$8.10 (www.madisound.com)
>
>
> That does *not* appear to be the same binding post module (TD-CUP).
> The one pictured on the web site has some additional brass that
> doesn't seem present on the Europa. Maybe thy've redesigned it or
> there are several variations though.
>
> Also, I need to point out that Greg didn't bother to send the bridging
> straps with the speaker. I used my own Hovland straps.

He thought that you will use double amplification !
:o)

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
> I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
> sales.

Personally, I'm waiting for the receiver's liquidation.

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> You and George play the same bull**** game from the same bull**** position of anonymity.

The old sockpuppet paranoia is really electrifying your undercarriage.
You've now joined an elite group of paranoid whack-jobs that includes
Krooger, McInturd, and The Thing.

Well done, I must say. Give us a wave from the loony bin from time to
time.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> trotsky wrote:
>>
>>>> Whose review was this, again?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm a very critical listener, Dev, and these are very good speakers.
>>> dave did a poor, almost nonexistent job of communicating this fact.
>>
>>
>>
>> LMAO. What a rube you are, Greg.
>>
>> "These are very good speakers. The reviewer did a poor job of
>> communicating
>> this fact"
>>
>> LOL. You honhestly have to idea how anal, ivory tower condescending
>> and biased you sounded there, did you?
>
>
>
> Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to prove you
> understand.
>

And after all these years, you still can't tell the difference between
JLB's consumer crap and their studio monitors.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Lionel wrote:

>
> Is Jupiter-Audio a Madisound's subsidiary ? ;-)
>

Based upon the parts and design, yes. The funny thing is, they sell
a BETTER design for $455 on their own site.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Guilty Bystander wrote:


> Greg, I was wondering if these are the specific model numbers and
> types of speakers and/or componentry that the Europa's are made of?
>
> W20RC-38-08 (8 inch Woofer) 26.60 (X2)
> YAG-20 8 ohms 3 kHz -20 kHz 90 2.5"x6.12" 3.5"x6.62 27.50 (X2)
> (www.madisound.com)
>
> Cabinets 3/4 MDF

See below. These are kits. Pre-assembled with veneer.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15794120&St=5014&St2=-82824052&St3=-88850709&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=121471&DID=7
This is simmilar. Bookshelf speaker, ready to put a driver in.
Figure $65 each, his cost. Maybe $60 for something like this.

It's actually not a bad cabinet.

> Crossover network -- Unknown

Custom designed for a $40-$60 one time fee by Madisound.

> Binding Post --$8.10 (www.madisound.com)

Check. Looks like it.

> Veneer --

See above.

I come up with about $250 in cost. Given his 5* markup agenda/beliefs,
that jives - $1250 is pretty clost to his asking price.

Too damn bad everyone else did the work for him. It's really NOT
worth the money if he even got Madisound to design the crossover.
(as if their designs are anything more than merely acceptable)

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>>
>>> trotsky wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Whose review was this, again?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm a very critical listener, Dev, and these are very good speakers.
>>>> dave did a poor, almost nonexistent job of communicating this fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LMAO. What a rube you are, Greg.
>>>
>>> "These are very good speakers. The reviewer did a poor job of
>>> communicating
>>> this fact"
>>>
>>> LOL. You honhestly have to idea how anal, ivory tower condescending
>>> and biased you sounded there, did you?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to prove
>> you understand.
>>
>
> And after all these years, you still can't tell the difference between
> JLB's consumer crap and their studio monitors.


Oh, I think I can. JBLs, too.

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> Guilty Bystander wrote:
>
>
>> Greg, I was wondering if these are the specific model numbers and
>> types of speakers and/or componentry that the Europa's are made of?
>>
>> W20RC-38-08 (8 inch Woofer) 26.60 (X2)
>> YAG-20 8 ohms 3 kHz -20 kHz 90 2.5"x6.12" 3.5"x6.62 27.50 (X2)
>> (www.madisound.com)
>
> >
>
>> Cabinets 3/4 MDF
>
>
> See below. These are kits. Pre-assembled with veneer.
>
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15794120&St=5014&St2=-82824052&St3=-88850709&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=121471&DID=7
> This is simmilar. Bookshelf speaker, ready to put a driver in.
> Figure $65 each, his cost. Maybe $60 for something like this.


God, this is tedious. Joe, get off your big fat hairy ass and build a
speaker. You can't do it, and come on this group to mentally
masturbate. You can't even get a ****ing cardboard box for $65, you
stupid asshole.



<snip>

[dave weil]

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:11:12 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:43:06 GMT, Guilty Bystander >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Binding Post --$8.10 (www.madisound.com)
>>
>>
>> That does *not* appear to be the same binding post module (TD-CUP).
>> The one pictured on the web site has some additional brass that
>> doesn't seem present on the Europa. Maybe thy've redesigned it or
>> there are several variations though.
>>
>> Also, I need to point out that Greg didn't bother to send the bridging
>> straps with the speaker. I used my own Hovland straps.
>
>He thought that you will use double amplification !

That's true. That's what he thought.

I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >He thought that you will use double amplification !
>
> That's true. That's what he thought.
>
> I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
> regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.

Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
being two cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is an
absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like Gregipus.

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >He thought that you will use double amplification !
>
> That's true. That's what he thought.
>
> I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
> regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.

Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
being too cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is an
absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like Gregipus.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> Guilty Bystander wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Greg, I was wondering if these are the specific model numbers and
>>> types of speakers and/or componentry that the Europa's are made of?
>>>
>>> W20RC-38-08 (8 inch Woofer) 26.60 (X2)
>>> YAG-20 8 ohms 3 kHz -20 kHz 90 2.5"x6.12" 3.5"x6.62 27.50 (X2)
>>> (www.madisound.com)
>>
>>
>> >
>>
>>> Cabinets 3/4 MDF
>>
>>
>>
>> See below. These are kits. Pre-assembled with veneer.
>>
>> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15794120&St=5014&St2=-82824052&St3=-88850709&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=121471&DID=7
>>
>> This is simmilar. Bookshelf speaker, ready to put a driver in.
>> Figure $65 each, his cost. Maybe $60 for something like this.
>
>
>
> God, this is tedious. Joe, get off your big fat hairy ass and build a
> speaker. You can't do it, and come on this group to mentally
> masturbate. You can't even get a ****ing cardboard box for $65, you
> stupid asshole.

I don;t need to buiold a speaker to see that yours is lifted off of
designs bought at retail price from Madisound.

Do you go to the makers directly - or even try to? No, you pay
$25 for a $15 speaker thanks to Madisound's markups(which you
seem to defend).

So, in reality, it's closer to $200 in materials/cost for the entire
pair of speakers if you went directly to the manufacturers.

Nice extra $350 you're taking on. Consumers paying retail markup on top
of retail markup? It won't take long for the reviews to point out
exactly where the parts come from and do some price comparisons,
then tell the consumers exactly how to build the same thing themselves
for $300.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 23:11:12 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:43:06 GMT, Guilty Bystander >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Binding Post --$8.10 (www.madisound.com)
>>>
>>>
>>>That does *not* appear to be the same binding post module (TD-CUP).
>>>The one pictured on the web site has some additional brass that
>>>doesn't seem present on the Europa. Maybe thy've redesigned it or
>>>there are several variations though.
>>>
>>>Also, I need to point out that Greg didn't bother to send the bridging
>>>straps with the speaker. I used my own Hovland straps.
>>
>>He thought that you will use double amplification !
>
>
> That's true. That's what he thought.
>
> I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
> regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.


Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey, don't
let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> dave weil said:
>
>
>>>He thought that you will use double amplification !
>>
>>That's true. That's what he thought.
>>
>>I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
>>regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.
>
>
> Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
> lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
> somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
> being two cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is an
> absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like Gregipus.


George talking about audio--that alone was almost worth the price of
admission.

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>>
>>> Guilty Bystander wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Greg, I was wondering if these are the specific model numbers and
>>>> types of speakers and/or componentry that the Europa's are made of?
>>>>
>>>> W20RC-38-08 (8 inch Woofer) 26.60 (X2)
>>>> YAG-20 8 ohms 3 kHz -20 kHz 90 2.5"x6.12" 3.5"x6.62 27.50 (X2)
>>>> (www.madisound.com)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>> Cabinets 3/4 MDF
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> See below. These are kits. Pre-assembled with veneer.
>>>
>>> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=15794120&St=5014&St2=-82824052&St3=-88850709&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=121471&DID=7
>>>
>>> This is simmilar. Bookshelf speaker, ready to put a driver in.
>>> Figure $65 each, his cost. Maybe $60 for something like this.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> God, this is tedious. Joe, get off your big fat hairy ass and build a
>> speaker. You can't do it, and come on this group to mentally
>> masturbate. You can't even get a ****ing cardboard box for $65, you
>> stupid asshole.
>
>
> I don;t need to buiold


Yeah, that about sums it up.

[Lionel]

Gregory Singh president of Jupiter-Audio a subsidiary of Madisound "do
it yourself" branch wrote :

> Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey, don't
> let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>

I prefer to be a sockpuppet rather than to be a suck-puppet like you !

[dave weil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey, don't
>let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.

This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
audio" biwaire.

And you know it.

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message

> George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>> dave weil said:
>>
>>
>>>> He thought that you will use double amplification !
>>>
>>> That's true. That's what he thought.
>>>
>>> I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
>>> regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.
>
>> Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
>> lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
>> somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
>> being two cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is an
>> absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like Gregipus.

Note that George, our local English Composition expert, just confused "two"
and "too". Why isn't sockpuppet Yustabe ranting about this? LOL!

> George talking about audio--that alone was almost worth the price of
> admission.

Singh calling George's profane posturing "talking about audio" - totally
worthless because we already know how stupid he is.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>> Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey,
>> don't let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>
> This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
> audio" biwaire.
>
> And you know it.

It's such a rare event that I must praise Weil when he actually (obviously
in anger) posts a true statement.

[dave weil]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:33:22 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>It's such a rare event that I must praise Weil when he actually (obviously
>in anger) posts a true statement.

Obviously is an incorrect word, as well as the parenthetical
conclusion.

But nice try anyway.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:33:22 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> It's such a rare event that I must praise Weil when he actually
>> (obviously in anger) posts a true statement.
>
> Obviously is an incorrect word, as well as the parenthetical
> conclusion.
>
> But nice try anyway.

Lame.

You should have quit while you were only that far behind, Weil.

[dave weil]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:20:14 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:33:22 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's such a rare event that I must praise Weil when he actually
>>> (obviously in anger) posts a true statement.
>>
>> Obviously is an incorrect word, as well as the parenthetical
>> conclusion.
>>
>> But nice try anyway.
>
>Lame.
>
>You should have quit while you were only that far behind, Weil.

You should have quit before you started.

You lose.

Again.

When are you going to take your own advice and leave RAO?

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey, don't
>>let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>
>
> This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
> audio" biwaire.
>
> And you know it.


Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you have
no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in the weil
lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more neutral." This
is a train wreck.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>
>
>>George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>>>dave weil said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>He thought that you will use double amplification !
>>>>
>>>>That's true. That's what he thought.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
>>>>regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.
>>>
>>>Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
>>>lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
>>>somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
>>>being two cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is an
>>>absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like Gregipus.
>>
>
> Note that George, our local English Composition expert, just confused "two"
> and "too". Why isn't sockpuppet Yustabe ranting about this? LOL!
>
>
>>George talking about audio--that alone was almost worth the price of
>>admission.
>
>
> Singh calling George's profane posturing "talking about audio" - totally
> worthless because we already know how stupid he is.


The antecedent of "he" would be whom, Arny? You can just say "Yes" if
the question confuses you.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>
>
>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey,
>>>don't let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>>
>>This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
>>audio" biwaire.
>>
>>And you know it.
>
>
> It's such a rare event that I must praise Weil when he actually (obviously
> in anger) posts a true statement.


In engineering terms this is called propagation of errors.

[dave weil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:48:57 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey, don't
>>>let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>>
>>
>> This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
>> audio" biwaire.
>>
>> And you know it.
>
>
>Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
>multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you have
>no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in the weil
>lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more neutral." This
>is a train wreck.

You seem terminally confused. This doesn't bode well for running a
business, except maybe into the ground, of course.

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said to ****-for-Brains:

> The antecedent of "he" would be whom, Arny? You can just say "Yes" if
> the question confuses you.

Gregipus hears everything. Krooger hears nothing. And yet, in the big
picture, there's so little space between them.......

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>>
>>>> dave weil said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> He thought that you will use double amplification !
>>>>>
>>>>> That's true. That's what he thought.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
>>>>> regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
>>>> lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
>>>> somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
>>>> being two cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is
>>>> an absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like
>>>> Gregipus.
>>>
>>
>> Note that George, our local English Composition expert, just
>> confused "two" and "too". Why isn't sockpuppet Yustabe ranting about
>> this? LOL!
>>
>>
>>> George talking about audio--that alone was almost worth the price of
>>> admission.
>>
>>
>> Singh calling George's profane posturing "talking about audio" -
>> totally worthless because we already know how stupid he is.
>
>
> The antecedent of "he" would be whom, Arny? You can just say "Yes" if
> the question confuses you.


Works either way. Pick the one that makes you feel good!

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:
>
>
> dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey,
>>> don't let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>>
>>
>>
>> This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
>> audio" biwaire.
>>
>> And you know it.
>
>
>
> Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
> multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you have
> no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in the weil
> lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more neutral." This
> is a train wreck.
>

I love to be a "****ing sockpuppet", coming from you it's really a pleasure.
Can you repeat please ?

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:
>
> In engineering terms this is called propagation of errors.
>
>
If you knew that why did you vainly attempt again and again ?

LOL !

"Errare humanum est . Perseverare diabolicum"

[Lionel]

Langis wrote:

> Lionel > wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey,
>>>>>don't let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
>>>>audio" biwaire.
>>>>
>>>>And you know it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
>>>multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you have
>>>no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in the weil
>>>lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more neutral." This
>>>is a train wreck.
>>>
>>
>>I love to be a "****ing sockpuppet", coming from you it's really a pleasure.
>>Can you repeat please ?
>
>
> Why don't you just re-read it.
>
>
> --
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t

I've tested that but after a while it loses its power. ;o)

[dave weil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:52:03 +0100, Langis > wrote:

>dave weil > wrote:
>
>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>sales.
>
>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>sense of what they find?

Yes, that's my point exactly.

There's also the PR aspect as well. I'm sure that some people probably
admire a scorched earth policy and might actually make their
purchasing decisions on that, but I think most people are probably put
off by such skirmishing (to tag it with a milder name).

[Lionel]

Langis wrote:

> dave weil > wrote:
>
>
>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>sales.
>
>
> When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
> of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
> do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
> potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
> sense of what they find?
>
>
> --
> S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t

Jupiter Audio ?
Jupiter Audio is a subsidiary of Madisound's "Do it yourself" branch.
Mr. Gregory Singh is "THE" President, foreman, worker, caretaker of
Jupiter Audio.
In fact Mr. Gregory Singh is a grotesque swindler, Jupiter Audio is a
façade.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Langis wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander > wrote:
>
>
>>>Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to prove you
>>>understand.
>>>
>>
>>And after all these years, you still can't tell the difference between
>>JLB's consumer crap and their studio monitors.
>
>
> It's "JBL", Joseph.

Yeah, so what? My postings frequently have typos in them. I'm not
the type to even look twice at such petty things, but instead read
for content.

> The studio monitors a pretty fair speakers. On the plus side are they
> are heavily built to withstand abuse, "translate" well in mixes (like
> Yamaha NS10's), reach high SPLs without much difficulty and can fill a
> room. On the other hand they are heavy handed top and bottom, lack
> detail, refinement etc.

Mine are quite "refined" - of course, they are not your typical "monitor"
design like the NS10s are, but good old fashioned large speakers from
20 years ago made to be heavier and more accurate. Of course, they still
make them because they are a good speaker for applications besides monitoring,
if a big on the large and ugly side(why they got rid of the wood veneer, I'll
never know)

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:48:57 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey, don't
>>>>let me get in the way of your discussions with the sockpuppet.
>>>
>>>
>>>This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious about
>>>audio" biwaire.
>>>
>>>And you know it.
>>
>>
>>Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
>>multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you have
>>no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in the weil
>>lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more neutral." This
>>is a train wreck.
>
>
> You seem terminally confused. This doesn't bode well for running a
> business, except maybe into the ground, of course.



I'm confused? Do you or don't you realize that biwire terminals on
speakers are used about 99.99% for biwiring, and not biamping? If you
do realize this, why did you respond to the sockpuppet?

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said to ****-for-Brains:
>
>
>>The antecedent of "he" would be whom, Arny? You can just say "Yes" if
>>the question confuses you.
>
>
> Gregipus hears everything. Krooger hears nothing. And yet, in the big
> picture, there's so little space between them.......



In stark contrast to your ears, of course.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>>"trotsky" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>
>>>>George M. Middius wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>dave weil said:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>He thought that you will use double amplification !
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's true. That's what he thought.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't know why he'd assume that, but, oh well...hopefully the
>>>>>>regular stock comes ready for use by everyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe Gregipus is just creating an opportunity for delivering a
>>>>>lecture on "finding your genitalia" or whatever he calls it. If
>>>>>somebody asks for the bridge, they have to endure an harangue about
>>>>>being two cheap to own a second amplifier, which as we all know is
>>>>>an absolute prerequisite for being a studly audio geek like
>>>>>Gregipus.
>>>>
>>>Note that George, our local English Composition expert, just
>>>confused "two" and "too". Why isn't sockpuppet Yustabe ranting about
>>>this? LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>George talking about audio--that alone was almost worth the price of
>>>>admission.
>>>
>>>
>>>Singh calling George's profane posturing "talking about audio" -
>>>totally worthless because we already know how stupid he is.
>>
>>
>>The antecedent of "he" would be whom, Arny? You can just say "Yes" if
>>the question confuses you.
>
>
>
> Works either way. Pick the one that makes you feel good!


You make a mockery of Christianity!

[Arny Krueger]

"Lionel" > wrote in message


> trotsky wrote:

>> dave weil wrote:

>>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>>>> Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey,
>>>> don't let me get in the way of your discussions with the
>>>> sockpuppet.

>>> This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious
>>> about audio" biwaire.
>>>
>>> And you know it.

>> Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
>> multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you
>> have no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in
>> the weil lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more
>> neutral." This is a train wreck.

> I love to be a "****ing sockpuppet", coming from you it's really a
> pleasure. Can you repeat please ?

Consider the alternative Singh seems to be favoring, being a sockpuppet who
is celibate.

LOL!

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> > Gregipus hears everything. Krooger hears nothing. And yet, in the big
> > picture, there's so little space between them.......

> In stark contrast to your ears, of course.

Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.

[Arny Krueger]

"Langis" > wrote in message

> Joseph Oberlander > wrote:
>
>>> Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to prove
>>> you understand.
>>>
>>
>> And after all these years, you still can't tell the difference
>> between JLB's consumer crap and their studio monitors.
>
> It's "JBL", Joseph.
>
> The studio monitors a pretty fair speakers. On the plus side are they
> are heavily built to withstand abuse, "translate" well in mixes (like
> Yamaha NS10's), reach high SPLs without much difficulty and can fill a
> room. On the other hand they are heavy handed top and bottom, lack
> detail, refinement etc.

Yup, according to Dormer all studio monitors sound like NS10s.

LOL!

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:
> dave weil > wrote:
>
>
>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>sales.
>
>
> When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
> of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
> do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
> potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
> sense of what they find?


Excuse me?

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

> I'm confused? Do you or don't you realize that biwire terminals on
> speakers are used about 99.99% for biwiring, and not biamping? If you
> do realize this, why did you respond to the sockpuppet?
>
Are your speaker common or discrete biwiring ?
LOL!

Learn your "job" with the following, Mr. Gregory Singh president of a
phantom company !

http://www.pcavtech.com/techtalk/biwire/

[The Devil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:59:38 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>Langis wrote:
>> dave weil > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>>sales.
>>
>>
>> When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>> of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>> do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>> potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>> sense of what they find?
>
>
>Excuse me?

Shall we take bets, my faithful faggish cabal?

--
td

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:
> trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>
>>>I think "I could've demanded that the logo from the speaker be used on
>>>the site" had us both confused. It's the direct opposite of what I
>>>said.
>>
>>
>>As I told dave, I think there's only one way to interpret "I already had
>>the logos done before the website..."
>
>
> I am no longer sure whether you are referring to the nameplates, or
> the logos on your site when you say "the logos". If it's the former, I
> have to take issue with that.


I'm not sure what your game plan is here, PD. I've had to deal with a
****storm of about 2000 messages, most of them ridiculous in nature. I
realize you're criticism *is* perhaps the only constructive criticism on
this newsgroup, but I find your timing questionable. It's as if you
waited for the floodgates to be opened first, and then you just piled on
yourself. And I really, really don't appreciate you're humoring dave
weil, as *my* criticisms of what he had to say were spot on.


>>>OK, you disagree. I maintain that the logo from your website could
>>>look far more professional on the speakers than the nameplates, to the
>>>degree that it could influence potential customers perception of the
>>>product.
>>
>>
>>
>>I think you're putting too much stock in the look.
>
>
> Looks are important, to a lot of people.
>
> How about some market research.


Okay, you made me laugh. If you know somebody that knows more about the
consumer audio market please let me know who that is. What you don't
realize is that you are really criticizing dave's inability to
communicate just how good the look, fit, and finish of the speakers is.
Here's the deal: there's nothing wrong with the product, the product
is excellent. There's also nothing wrong with me--anybody that has
dealt with me on the phone or in person will tell you that. Hell,
you've talked to me on the phone, you probably have an opinion. There's
also nothing wrong with the price point, despite what the morons in the
peanut gallery are saying. The only hard part is to get people to
listen to them. I don't have the money to exhibit at shows, because I'm
doing this on a shoestring. I'm also not in a position to secure a
business loan or venture capital. So I have to come up with clever ways
to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really are.
And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.

But please, if you have more insight in the matter then elighten me.


>>>Weird answer. If the photographer *insists* on photographing the
>>>speakers like a bowl of fruit, it's a false economy not to find
>>>another. You ask for what you want and they do it.. right?
>>
>>
>>Perhaps you can provide a link to a photo or photos that you think are
>>better.
>
>
> Here's an example. The pictures on this site are neutral, giving you
> just enough information to visualize what they might look like in your
> own home, but without adding personal bias. Personal bias gives the
> viewer an opportunity to find themselves not fitting the profile and
> walking away.
>
> http://www.castle.uk.com/pages/classic.htm


What's your point, PD? Castle is a long established name, and they
still have zero market penetration in the U.S. In fact, in my
experience, British audio companies are the bottom of the barrel when it
comes to marketing. I don't know why, I guess it has something to do
with the British mindset, but it makes their products nigh on impossible
to sell on this side of the pond.



>>Which is certainly valid, but as far as audio is concerned, I'm already
>>well ahead of the curve. Granted there's always room for improvement.
>>All it takes is cash.
>
>
> In the early stages of business it's worth being resourcesful. For
> example - find a photography graduate who has an impressive portfolio,
> bit of artistic flair, skills to match - offer them a credit on your
> site. It's a win-win situation.


Thanks for the advice, but Castle was about as bad an example as you
could possibly come up with. I'll bet even in the UK their market
penetration needs work. Very good speakers, though. Mine are quite a
bit better.


>>The only beef I have with you, PD, is that you didn't apply the same
>>scrutiny to weil's attempt at a review as you did with my efforts.
>
>
> You invited scrutiny, Dave did not.


Oh geez, more rules of engagement? I'm going to need a scorecard.


> Having said that...
>
>
>>In
>>fact, I think you totally gave him a free pass, which is unfair.
>
>
> False. I openly questioned Dave about his use of the words "lean" and
> "neutral", you are witness to that.


That's not good enough, as far as I'm concerned. If you found those
words wrongly used, then "the Devil's" post should've severely outraged
you. He couldn't have been more out of bounds.


Having not heard the speakers I'm
> unable to comment on pretty much anything else besides the use of
> language. TBH if you gave me the same rhetoric you gave dave after
> giving up a chunk of time you would likewise be receiving your
> speakers back in record time.


That might explain why the general public is so stupidly complacent
whilst reading the garbage typical audio reviewers spew. I guess
nobody's got the ******** to call a spade a spade anymore. The ironic
thing is that they claim they're all gentlemen, until the decide to dump
on a guy for 2000 posts are so, in which case they become the total
assholes they claim they're decrying. People are funny that way, don't
you think?

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>>trotsky wrote:
>
>
>>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>
>>>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:53:35 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>
>
>>>>>Most people serious about audio biwire their speakers. But hey,
>>>>>don't let me get in the way of your discussions with the
>>>>>sockpuppet.
>>>>
>
>>>>This of course is a lie. A *small* proportion of people "serious
>>>>about audio" biwaire.
>>>>
>>>>And you know it.
>>>
>
>>>Weil, you humored the ****ing sockpuppet's assessment of
>>>multi-amplification, which is highly unusual. Because of this, you
>>>have no business speaking from a position of authority. Hell, in
>>>the weil lexicon, bi-amplification probably makes a speaker "more
>>>neutral." This is a train wreck.
>>
>
>>I love to be a "****ing sockpuppet", coming from you it's really a
>>pleasure. Can you repeat please ?
>
>
> Consider the alternative Singh seems to be favoring, being a sockpuppet who
> is celibate.
>
> LOL!


I'm laughing too, but at the mental image of you reading the Bible!
"Dr. Wick, I do my best Bible reading in the can. Nobody reads
Leviticus anyway, and those pages are just thin enough to wipe your ass
with."

Arny, you still remain the biggest joke on this group. Thanks for the
laugh.

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>Gregipus hears everything. Krooger hears nothing. And yet, in the big
>>>picture, there's so little space between them.......
>>
>
>
>>In stark contrast to your ears, of course.
>
>
> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.


Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to me
in this way?

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

> I'm not sure what your game plan is here, PD. I've had to deal with a
> ****storm of about 2000 messages, most of them ridiculous in nature. I
> realize you're criticism *is* perhaps the only constructive criticism on
> this newsgroup, but I find your timing questionable. It's as if you
> waited for the floodgates to be opened first, and then you just piled on
> yourself. And I really, really don't appreciate you're humoring dave
> weil, as *my* criticisms of what he had to say were spot on.
>
>
Is PD "brutally honest" ?
LOL

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:59:38 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Langis wrote:
>>
>>>dave weil > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>>>sales.
>>>
>>>
>>>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>sense of what they find?
>>
>>
>>Excuse me?
>
>
> Shall we take bets, my faithful faggish cabal?


Before or after we discuss who's ****ing which family members?

Enjoy the woodwork!

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:
> trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>>>sales.
>>>
>>>
>>>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>sense of what they find?
>>
>>
>>Excuse me?
>
>
> You'll have to be more specific than that.


Okay, what did you mean by that last question?

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>> trotsky said:
>>
>>
>>>> Gregipus hears everything. Krooger hears nothing. And yet, in the big
>>>> picture, there's so little space between them.......
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>> In stark contrast to your ears, of course.
>>
>>
>>
>> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>
>
>
> Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to me
> in this way?
>
>
Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> you're criticism
> don't appreciate you're humoring
> somebody that knows

zzzzzzzzzz

> There's also nothing wrong with me

oopsy!

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Langis wrote:
>
>> trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>>>> I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>>>> sales.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>> of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>> do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>> potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>> sense of what they find?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Excuse me?
>>
>>
>>
>> You'll have to be more specific than that.
>
>
>
> Okay, what did you mean by that last question?
>
You seems to be confused it was not a question.
You have put the question "Excuse me ?"

[George M. Middius]

trotsky whined:

> > Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.

> Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to me
> in this way?

Who doesn't think it's permissible?

Of course, the underlying issue is your dismally low self-awareness.
The Mommy****er sobriquet is a direct descendant of your own
(unintentional) self-mockery on this very newsgroup.

[George M. Middius]

Lionella said:

> >> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.

> > Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to me
> > in this way?

> Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !

I'll side with Gregipus on this one -- votes from morons don't count.

[The Devil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:41:45 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Before or after we discuss who's ****ing which family members?

Well, if we *must* bring your mother back into this. You will note
that I *had* remained silent.

Well done on furthering the discussion about your speakers, BTW. I'm
glad you're the only mother****er who can stay on the topic of audio
for so long.

--
td

[Lionel]

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Lionella said:
>
>
>>>>Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>
>
>>>Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to me
>>>in this way?
>
>
>>Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !
>
>
> I'll side with Gregipus on this one -- votes from morons don't count.
>
>
Have you finished with Joseph ?

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky whined:
>
>
>>>Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>>
>
>
>>Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to me
>>in this way?
>
>
> Who doesn't think it's permissible?
>
> Of course, the underlying issue is your dismally low self-awareness.
> The Mommy****er sobriquet is a direct descendant of your own
> (unintentional) self-mockery on this very newsgroup.


George, your understanding of the English language is a lot worse than I
thought.

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:41:45 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>Before or after we discuss who's ****ing which family members?
>
>
> Well, if we *must* bring your mother back into this. You will note
> that I *had* remained silent.
>
> Well done on furthering the discussion about your speakers, BTW.


Agreed. The message count must be near 2500 by now.

[The Devil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:57:17 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>The Devil wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:41:45 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Before or after we discuss who's ****ing which family members?
>>
>>
>> Well, if we *must* bring your mother back into this. You will note
>> that I *had* remained silent.
>>
>> Well done on furthering the discussion about your speakers, BTW.
>
>
>Agreed. The message count must be near 2500 by now.

Yep. Good for a Google search. Let's make sure people know you didn't
actually design the speakers. Let people decide for themselves whether
it's worth paying the $1000 premium for you to sort out how much
stuffing should be in the boxes.

--
td

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

> Thanks for the advice, but Castle was about as bad an example as you
> could possibly come up with. I'll bet even in the UK their market
> penetration needs work. Very good speakers, though. Mine are quite a
> bit better.
>

Mr. Gregory Singh you must understand that you *haven't* any speaker !
You have purchased 2 drivers at Madisound. You have joined them with an
electrical wire and you put the whole in a wooden crates.

The rest : your website, photos etc... have been done by third
"professional" party !

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message


> Excuse me?

There never was an excuse for the excesses of Singh, and it's easy to
predict that there never will be.

[Arny Krueger]

"Langis" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>>>>> Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to
>>>>> prove you understand.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And after all these years, you still can't tell the difference
>>>> between JLB's consumer crap and their studio monitors.
>>>
>>> It's "JBL", Joseph.
>>>
>>> Their studio monitors are pretty fair speakers. On the plus side
>>> are they are heavily built to withstand abuse, "translate" well in
>>> mixes (like Yamaha NS10's), reach high SPLs without much difficulty
>>> and can fill a room. On the other hand they are heavy handed top
>>> and bottom, lack detail, refinement etc.
>>
>> Yup, according to Dormer all studio monitors sound like NS10s.
>>
>> LOL!
>
> That's pretty weak.

Anybody for a summary of all the times Dormer has posted sounds alike
insults on RAO?

LOL!

[Lionel]

Langis wrote:

> trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>>>>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>>>>>sales.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>>>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>>>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>>>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>>>sense of what they find?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Excuse me?
>>>
>>>
>>>You'll have to be more specific than that.
>>
>>
>>Okay, what did you mean by that last question?
>
>
> What do you mean, what did I mean?
>
>
Good and interesting question, thank you very much to put it.

[tor b]

>From: trotsky
>Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >

<snipped>

Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:

>I have to come up with clever ways
>to get people to recognize the speakers >for how good they really are.
>And gee, I thought the rao was a sure >thing, too.

You really are that stupid, aren't you?

[Arny Krueger]

"Langis" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>> "Langis" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> Joe, you own JBL. Sound quality is something you have yet to
>>>>>>> prove you understand.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And after all these years, you still can't tell the difference
>>>>>> between JLB's consumer crap and their studio monitors.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's "JBL", Joseph.
>>>>>
>>>>> Their studio monitors are pretty fair speakers. On the plus side
>>>>> are they are heavily built to withstand abuse, "translate" well in
>>>>> mixes (like Yamaha NS10's), reach high SPLs without much
>>>>> difficulty and can fill a room. On the other hand they are heavy
>>>>> handed top and bottom, lack detail, refinement etc.
>>>>
>>>> Yup, according to Dormer all studio monitors sound like NS10s.
>>>>
>>>> LOL!
>>>
>>> That's pretty weak.
>>
>> Anybody for a summary of all the times Dormer has posted sounds alike
>> insults on RAO?
>>
>> LOL!
>
> The expression "get a life" is overused, but in your case it actually
> applies.

When cornered by the facts, Dormer always seems to turn to name-calling or
posturing.

Yawn!

[Arny Krueger]

"tor b" > wrote in message

>> From: trotsky
>> Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>> Message-id: >
>
> <snipped>

> Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:

>> I have to come up with clever ways
>> to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really
>> are. And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.

> You really are that stupid, aren't you?

Sad, but true.

What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?

[The Devil]

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:39:00 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>When cornered by the facts, Dormer always seems to turn to name-calling or
>posturing.
>
>Yawn!

And when you're cornered by the sight of a little choirboy and
candles, you lop your cock out and start crying to Christ for
forgiveness.

Please don't yawn right now.

--
td

[tor b]

>From: "Arny Krueger"
>Date: 10/7/2003 8:46 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >
>
>"tor b" > wrote in message

>>> From: trotsky
>>> Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>>> Message-id: >
>>
>> <snipped>
>
>> Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:
>
>>> I have to come up with clever ways
>>> to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really
>>> are. And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.
>
>> You really are that stupid, aren't you?
>
>Sad, but true.
>
>What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?
>
He was probably smoking the insulation he stripped off some of that AQ wire he
loves so much. ;-)

BTW, I noticed that his squawkboxes stopped off in Burbank, CA., before making
it to dave weil. Do I smell the Porkster getting involved here? Maybe Singh
thinks that one of the Porkster's three regular readers will get interested
enough to buy a pair of his 'lil' ****boxes (?).

[dave weil]

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:29:26 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>So I have to come up with clever ways
>to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really are.

Welllll, *this* has been really clever so far. I'm sure this entire
escapade is going to draw them like flies to ****.

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >So I have to come up with clever ways
> >to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really are.
>
> Welllll, *this* has been really clever so far. I'm sure this entire
> escapade is going to draw them like flies to ****.

Careful, you'll make Krooger jealous.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Lionel wrote:

> George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>> Lionella said:
>>
>>
>>>>> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk to
>>>> me in this way?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll side with Gregipus on this one -- votes from morons don't count.
>>
>>
> Have you finished with Joseph ?
>

Oh, I can keep this up for days. I remember the REAL flamewars
back when there were only a few hundred newsgroups. The classics
from the late 80's/early 90's.

Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.
Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
groups outside of the alt.binaries groups

[Arny Krueger]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
nk.net

> Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.

Nahh, virtually all the posts there are at least on-topic.

> Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
> groups outside of the alt.binaries groups.

If you want to see character assassination at a fever pitch, check out some
of the groups where spammers go face-to-face with spam killers. There's real
money on the table, not merely egos.

[Arny Krueger]

"tor b" > wrote in message


>> From: "Arny Krueger"
>> Date: 10/7/2003 8:46 PM Central Daylight Time
>> Message-id: >

>> "tor b" > wrote in message
>>

>>>> From: trotsky
>>>> Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>> Message-id: >

>>> <snipped>

>>> Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:

>>>> I have to come up with clever ways
>>>> to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really
>>>> are. And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.

>>> You really are that stupid, aren't you?

>> Sad, but true.

>> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?

> He was probably smoking the insulation he stripped off some of that
> AQ wire he loves so much. ;-)

AQ is making wire with hemp insulation? Those guys will do just about
anything to sell wire for a high price, why not?

> BTW, I noticed that his squawkboxes stopped off in Burbank, CA.,
> before making it to dave weil.

True, and if you follow up on the signature report, you can find some
interesting stuff about Weil.

> Do I smell the Porkster getting involved here?

AFAIK, the Porkster says he wallows in the city of Los Angeles.

> Maybe Singh thinks that one of the Porkster's three
> regular readers will get interested enough to buy a pair of his 'lil'
> ****boxes (?).

I wonder if Singh's speakers are so bad that they reduce the surface noise
from vinyl? Given his proclivities, that is likely.

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:57:17 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>The Devil wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:41:45 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Before or after we discuss who's ****ing which family members?
>>>
>>>
>>>Well, if we *must* bring your mother back into this. You will note
>>>that I *had* remained silent.
>>>
>>>Well done on furthering the discussion about your speakers, BTW.
>>
>>
>>Agreed. The message count must be near 2500 by now.
>
>
> Yep. Good for a Google search. Let's make sure people know you didn't
> actually design the speakers.


What are you talking about, Dev? The speakers are exclusively my
design--I orchestrated and manufactured the whole thing. Naturally, you
don't have the balls to show us anything that you've done, so your
opinion gets filed with the rest of the anonymous dickheads. The thing
that gets me is that you've got this eminence front, a la the Who song,
where you think your anonymous existence stands for something on Usenet.
It doesn't.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>>Excuse me?
>
>
> There never was an excuse for the excesses of Singh, and it's easy to
> predict that there never will be.


Again, spoken like a true Christian. Do you belong to some secret sect
that worships the Pharisees?

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:
> trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>BTW, I love the way you are promoting your speakers on the internet.
>>>>>>I'm sure that your input on RAO is going to really pay off in real
>>>>>>sales.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>>>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>>>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>>>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>>>sense of what they find?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Excuse me?
>>>
>>>
>>>You'll have to be more specific than that.
>>
>>
>>Okay, what did you mean by that last question?
>
>
> What do you mean, what did I mean?


You seem to imply that potential customers would have trouble making
sense of my website, which, if this is what you meant, should be elaborated.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "tor b" > wrote in message
>
>
>>>From: trotsky
>>>Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>Message-id: >
>>
>><snipped>
>
>
>>Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:
>
>
>>>I have to come up with clever ways
>>>to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really
>>>are. And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.
>>
>
>>You really are that stupid, aren't you?
>
>
> Sad, but true.
>
> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?


That's true, it's not like I've ever used sarcasm before. Enjoy your
sockpuppets, Arny!

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:29:26 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>So I have to come up with clever ways
>>to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really are.
>
>
> Welllll, *this* has been really clever so far. I'm sure this entire
> escapade is going to draw them like flies to ****.


I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> Lionel wrote:
>
>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Lionella said:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk
>>>>> to me in this way?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll side with Gregipus on this one -- votes from morons don't count.
>>>
>>>
>> Have you finished with Joseph ?
>>
>
> Oh, I can keep this up for days. I remember the REAL flamewars
> back when there were only a few hundred newsgroups. The classics
> from the late 80's/early 90's.
>
> Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.
> Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
> groups outside of the alt.binaries groups


At least you're finally admitting you're just here to troll. Kind of
makes Arny and Mickey look like idiots, doesn't it.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:
>
>
> The Devil wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:57:17 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The Devil wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:41:45 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Before or after we discuss who's ****ing which family members?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, if we *must* bring your mother back into this. You will note
>>>> that I *had* remained silent.
>>>>
>>>> Well done on furthering the discussion about your speakers, BTW.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Agreed. The message count must be near 2500 by now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yep. Good for a Google search. Let's make sure people know you didn't
>> actually design the speakers.
>
>
>
> What are you talking about, Dev? The speakers are exclusively my
> design--I orchestrated and manufactured the whole thing. Naturally, you
> don't have the balls to show us anything that you've done, so your
> opinion gets filed with the rest of the anonymous dickheads. The thing
> that gets me is that you've got this eminence front, a la the Who song,
> where you think your anonymous existence stands for something on Usenet.
> It doesn't.
>

Trotsky, you can think and say what you want about Dave. But he's really
a *kind* guy. He has been too *honest* with you that I'm sure you cannot
imagine how lucky you was to find him... Or as you really are an insane
megalomaniac you think that he is a little bit "idiot" ?

If I have had your speaker in my hands I would have remove all screws, I
would have taken pictures of their tripes in order to show to the world
what is exactly your "design" (LOL) what is exactly your expertise level
(LOL, LOL)...
....I have been tempted to ask him to do that but I was sure he would
have refused.

Mr. Gregory Singh you are a jerk, you have discredited yourself. You
finished the circle as at your early beginnings, you are a real *LOSER*.

[The Devil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:37:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>What are you talking about, Dev? The speakers are exclusively my
>design--I orchestrated and manufactured the whole thing.

LOL!

So you 'orchestrated' it, did you? You rang up Madisound and asked
them to design a crossover for a couple of drivers you found on their
website, drivers you picked purely on the basis of creating a 'buzz'
because no one else had heard about them.

Turns out the actual performance of the drivers is pretty weak anyway,
especially for the price you're charging.

Great orchestrating there. I wonder which part of the EE curriculum
covers orchestrating rather than designing.

--
td

[The Devil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?

David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.

--
td

[Sockpuppet Yustabe]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> nk.net
>
> > Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.
>
> Nahh, virtually all the posts there are at least on-topic.
>
> > Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
> > groups outside of the alt.binaries groups.
>
> If you want to see character assassination at a fever pitch, check out
some
> of the groups where spammers go face-to-face with spam killers. There's
real
> money on the table, not merely egos.
>


Do you jump into the fray?
That would be something to see.




----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

[Joseph Oberlander]

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> nk.net
>
>
>>Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.
>
>
> Nahh, virtually all the posts there are at least on-topic.

It's civilized flame-wars. I see these as real, since the people
are actually trying to make their points.

soc.culture.(anything pretty much) are all like that.

Two other group types. Any of the console game groups and rec.games.frp.dnd,
one of the oldest group of hard-core flamers outside of the pc/mac groups.

I think the most amusing ones are the console game groups.
Do a search for Charles Doane. He could be Trotsky's son. Entertaining. :)
He has a dozen or more aliases, so I'd not be a bit surprized if he was
in this group or a few others. His style is eerily borg-like.

Heh. I kind of miss the twink. He seems to reappear every few
months somewhere on usenet under a different name.

>
>>Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
>>groups outside of the alt.binaries groups.
>
>
> If you want to see character assassination at a fever pitch, check out some
> of the groups where spammers go face-to-face with spam killers. There's real
> money on the table, not merely egos.

Heh. Those are fun to watch, but they are not real flame-wars, IMO.
Merely shouting and screaming.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:29:26 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So I have to come up with clever ways to get people to recognize the
>>> speakers for how good they really are.
>>
>>
>>
>> Welllll, *this* has been really clever so far. I'm sure this entire
>> escapade is going to draw them like flies to ****.
>
>
>
> I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
> I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
> related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
>

No you are doing here a tragic error :
- you are not giving us something to talk.
- you are giving us something to joke
Can you hear the difference ? ;o)

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> Lionel wrote:
>>
>>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lionella said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk
>>>>>> to me in this way?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll side with Gregipus on this one -- votes from morons don't count.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Have you finished with Joseph ?
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I can keep this up for days. I remember the REAL flamewars
>> back when there were only a few hundred newsgroups. The classics
>> from the late 80's/early 90's.
>>
>> Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.
>> Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
>> groups outside of the alt.binaries groups
>
>
>
> At least you're finally admitting you're just here to troll. Kind of
> makes Arny and Mickey look like idiots, doesn't it.

No, just that I have witnessed more flamewars over the years than I
can possibly remember. Nothing phases me anymore. Scream all you
want.

Nothing this group can come up with is more than a minor annoyance
compared to some of the real flamewars out there.

If you really want to learn how to flame people, Greg, there are
other groups where you can learn to insult people in a manner
that actually is even worth more than a 2 out of 10 on a vileness scale.

"Mommy****er" has to be about the lamest thing I've ever heard for
an insult. Heh.

[Joseph Oberlander]

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:


> Do you jump into the fray?
> That would be something to see.

Sane people just watch and lurk. It is awe-inspiring, though.

This place is Pokemon cuddly by comparison.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> Lionel wrote:
>>
>>> George M. Middius wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lionella said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>> Feeble attempt at wordplay noted, Mommy****er.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Who on this newsgroup thinks it's permissible for Middius to talk
>>>>>> to me in this way?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Me, because you are a *Mommy****er* !
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll side with Gregipus on this one -- votes from morons don't count.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Have you finished with Joseph ?
>>>
>>
>> Oh, I can keep this up for days. I remember the REAL flamewars
>> back when there were only a few hundred newsgroups. The classics
>> from the late 80's/early 90's.
>>
>> Shoot, soc.culture.jewish is ten times worse than this place.
>> Go over there - it's shocking - and one of the highest traffic
>> groups outside of the alt.binaries groups
>
>
>
> At least you're finally admitting you're just here to troll. Kind of
> makes Arny and Mickey look like idiots, doesn't it.
>
>
You seem to be really confused this morning. Too much glue inhalation ?

In your today previous post you was telling :
"I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
I give them something to talk about".
In other words you give us something to troll, something to joke with.

How are you so stupidly surprised that Joseph and others play the game
for you ?
Mr. Gregory Singh, what a moron you are !

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>> Excuse me?
>>
>>
>> There never was an excuse for the excesses of Singh, and it's easy to
>> predict that there never will be.

> Again, spoken like a true Christian.

If your meaning is sarcastic Singh (as if I have to ask!), this would
reflect on your ignorance of the New Testament.

> Do you belong to some secret sect that worships the Pharisees?

See my previous comment.

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:37:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>What are you talking about, Dev? The speakers are exclusively my
>>design--I orchestrated and manufactured the whole thing.
>
>
> LOL!


Again, I know when I've hit home when you have to resort to Usenet
cliches like "LOL!"


> So you 'orchestrated' it, did you? You rang up Madisound and asked
> them to design a crossover for a couple of drivers you found on their
> website, drivers you picked purely on the basis of creating a 'buzz'
> because no one else had heard about them.


That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.

Tell me, though: do you suppose Matthew Polk in his white lab coat
designs crossovers himself? How about Sandy Gross of Definitive
Techology? It sounds like you're claiming that for a speaker to be good
the owner of the company has to design the crossover himself, which is
ludicrous. Grow up and come up with a valid criticism, Dev--I really
thought you were smarter than this. I think I'm more disappointed in
you that I was with weil and his review. Will you promise to try harder
next time?

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
>
>
> David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
> in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.


People are talking about him, too. Is there such a thing as a "Devil"
complex? That's pretty funny!

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>

>> At least you're finally admitting you're just here to troll. Kind of
>> makes Arny and Mickey look like idiots, doesn't it.
>
>
> No, just that I have witnessed more flamewars over the years than I
> can possibly remember. Nothing phases me anymore. Scream all you
> want.


I think the word you're looking for is "fazes", but you could be talking
about your JBLs. Interesting how you troll me, and then say "scream all
you want." It's like you're already admitting defeat.


> Nothing this group can come up with is more than a minor annoyance
> compared to some of the real flamewars out there.


I don't know what you're talking about, Joe. All I did was come on the
group to talk about my speakers. You're the one now admitting to being
a filthy ****ing troll. Do you plan on apologizing to the group?


> If you really want to learn how to flame people, Greg, there are
> other groups where you can learn to insult people in a manner
> that actually is even worth more than a 2 out of 10 on a vileness scale.
>
> "Mommy****er" has to be about the lamest thing I've ever heard for
> an insult. Heh.


That was Middius. Words fail me to describe how stupid you are.

[Arny Krueger]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
ink.net

> "Mommy****er" has to be about the lamest thing I've ever heard for
> an insult. Heh.

Weil gave us his diagnosis, Singh is a "submissive". I think he's pretty
close on that one.

BTW I guess we all know what Weil thinks he is...

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message


> Is there such a thing as a "Devil" complex?

A rhetorical question, to be sure.

> That's pretty funny!

Or very sad.

[George M. Middius]

Obie Wanna New Knife said:

> "Mommy****er" has to be about the lamest thing I've ever heard for
> an insult. Heh.

It's not an insult, per se. How can you be that clueless?

[tor b]

>From: trotsky
>Date: 10/8/2003 7:46 AM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: >

<snipped>

The Devil wrote:





>> So you 'orchestrated' it, did you? You rang up Madisound and asked
>> them to design a crossover for a couple of drivers you found on their
>> website, drivers you picked purely on the basis of creating a 'buzz'
>> because no one else had heard about them.

Trotsky wrote:


>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the

>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the problem, I
knew I had something really, really good on my hands.

So, in essence, you are confirming that Madisound did the "design work" (such
as it is).


>Tell me, though: do you suppose Matthew Polk in his white lab coat
>designs crossovers himself? How about Sandy Gross of Definitive
>Techology?

Is that the level of quality to which you aspire? Polk Audio? Definitive
Technology?

Which would you prefer as your dealer, Best Buy or circuit city?

[The Devil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:46:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>>>What are you talking about, Dev? The speakers are exclusively my
>>>design--I orchestrated and manufactured the whole thing.

>> LOL!

>Again, I know when I've hit home when you have to resort to Usenet
>cliches like "LOL!"

Well, I really did laugh out loud. So'rry about that. I'll try not to
laugh next time.

>> So you 'orchestrated' it, did you? You rang up Madisound and asked
>> them to design a crossover for a couple of drivers you found on their
>> website, drivers you picked purely on the basis of creating a 'buzz'
>> because no one else had heard about them.

>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.

Am I allowed to say ROTFLMAO here?

Well, that's pretty much what I'm doing. So'rry.

>Tell me, though: do you suppose Matthew Polk in his white lab coat
>designs crossovers himself? How about Sandy Gross of Definitive
>Techology? It sounds like you're claiming that for a speaker to be good
>the owner of the company has to design the crossover himself, which is
>ludicrous. Grow up and come up with a valid criticism, Dev--I really
>thought you were smarter than this. I think I'm more disappointed in
>you that I was with weil and his review. Will you promise to try harder
>next time?

No, absolutely not. My work with you is done.

--
td

[trotsky]

The Devil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 12:46:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>>>What are you talking about, Dev? The speakers are exclusively my
>>>>design--I orchestrated and manufactured the whole thing.
>>>
>
>
>>>LOL!
>>
>
>>Again, I know when I've hit home when you have to resort to Usenet
>>cliches like "LOL!"
>
>
> Well, I really did laugh out loud. So'rry about that. I'll try not to
> laugh next time.
>
>
>>>So you 'orchestrated' it, did you? You rang up Madisound and asked
>>>them to design a crossover for a couple of drivers you found on their
>>>website, drivers you picked purely on the basis of creating a 'buzz'
>>>because no one else had heard about them.
>>
>
>>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>
>
> Am I allowed to say ROTFLMAO here?


Do what you want. As stated previously, I'll make mincemeat out of you
regardless.


> Well, that's pretty much what I'm doing. So'rry.


Dev, you keep falling in to the same trap: you're an anonymouse. Who
gives a **** what you're doing?


>>Tell me, though: do you suppose Matthew Polk in his white lab coat
>>designs crossovers himself? How about Sandy Gross of Definitive
>>Techology? It sounds like you're claiming that for a speaker to be good
>>the owner of the company has to design the crossover himself, which is
>>ludicrous. Grow up and come up with a valid criticism, Dev--I really
>>thought you were smarter than this. I think I'm more disappointed in
>>you that I was with weil and his review. Will you promise to try harder
>>next time?
>
>
> No, absolutely not. My work with you is done.


Like I said, enjoy the woodwork. As ever, you can't respond to a single
point I've raised.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:52:27 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"tor b" > wrote in message

>
>>> From: "Arny Krueger"
>>> Date: 10/7/2003 8:46 PM Central Daylight Time
>>> Message-id: >
>
>>> "tor b" > wrote in message
>>>
>
>>>>> From: trotsky
>>>>> Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>>> Message-id: >
>
>>>> <snipped>
>
>>>> Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:
>
>>>>> I have to come up with clever ways
>>>>> to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really
>>>>> are. And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.
>
>>>> You really are that stupid, aren't you?
>
>>> Sad, but true.
>
>>> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?
>
>> He was probably smoking the insulation he stripped off some of that
>> AQ wire he loves so much. ;-)
>
>AQ is making wire with hemp insulation? Those guys will do just about
>anything to sell wire for a high price, why not?
>
>> BTW, I noticed that his squawkboxes stopped off in Burbank, CA.,
>> before making it to dave weil.
>
>True, and if you follow up on the signature report, you can find some
>interesting stuff about Weil.

What's so interesting about my address? You can do that by doing a
white pages lookup.

Maybe *that's* the reason you wanted the tracking numbers. Silly
reason if you ask me.

BTW, I just gave the speakers to the FedEx guy so they're wheeling
their way back to Greg as we speak..

>> Do I smell the Porkster getting involved here?
>
>AFAIK, the Porkster says he wallows in the city of Los Angeles.
>
>> Maybe Singh thinks that one of the Porkster's three
>> regular readers will get interested enough to buy a pair of his 'lil'
>> ****boxes (?).
>
>I wonder if Singh's speakers are so bad that they reduce the surface noise
>from vinyl? Given his proclivities, that is likely.
>

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:46:49 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>>>>>>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>>>>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>>>>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>>>>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>>>>sense of what they find?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Excuse me?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You'll have to be more specific than that.
>>>
>>>
>>>Okay, what did you mean by that last question?
>>
>>
>> What do you mean, what did I mean?
>
>
>You seem to imply that potential customers would have trouble making
>sense of my website, which, if this is what you meant, should be elaborated.

You're not very bright, are you Greg?

What he meant is that making an ass of yourself on this forum, you are
likely going to keep people from buying your speakers, because casual
people interested in your speaker could very well do a Google
newsgroups searh to see what people are saying about the product and
you've managed to generate about 1000 posts of negative comments and
have pretty much annoyed the *one* person who was willing to
publically comment on the sound from an actual audition. They don't
know who the **** Arnold Krueger, Mike McKelvy or dave weil are. All
they know is that the "president" of the company is wont to rant like
a wounded razorback in a mudpit.

Plus, your defense that the speaker is the most neutral you've ever
heard (or whatever words you used) holds little weight because you
would be assumed to say that.

You started out great but you've been manipulated into screwing your
own product. Then, you let those attacks get the better of you and you
prematurely jumped on me as well.

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said to ****-for-Brains:

> Maybe *that's* the reason you wanted the tracking numbers. Silly
> reason if you ask me.

Unless Mr. **** decides to stalk you.....

BTW, notice the conspicuous absence of the "Scokpuppet" tag that
Turdy loves to bestow on Normals. Nobody could be more anonymous
than The Thing, and yet Krooger laps up the little toad's pablum
without a word. Apparently Turdborg doesn't abhor anonymity per se
-- it's just a little mechanism he uses in his everlasting quest for
"debating trade" points.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:29:26 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>So I have to come up with clever ways
>>>to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really are.
>>
>>
>> Welllll, *this* has been really clever so far. I'm sure this entire
>> escapade is going to draw them like flies to ****.
>
>
>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?

It might very well be.

Let's not forget what happened to a very famous messiah around the
beginning of the last millenium.

Frankly, I'd be more concerned about selling speakers than boosting my
ego by creating posts on RAO. And if you think that the two are
related, you're probably right, in inverse proportion of course. At
least the kind of posts that you're generating.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:07:06 +0100, The Devil > wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
>
>David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
>in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.

The difference is, he's going to make a lot of money doing it.

[MiNE 109]

In article >,
dave weil > wrote:

> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:07:06 +0100, The Devil > wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
> >
> >>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
> >>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
> >>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
> >
> >David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
> >in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.

I hope your arm's not getting sore.

> The difference is, he's going to make a lot of money doing it.

Tough gig, though.

Stephen

[dave weil]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:05:12 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
ink.net
>
>> "Mommy****er" has to be about the lamest thing I've ever heard for
>> an insult. Heh.
>
>Weil gave us his diagnosis, Singh is a "submissive". I think he's pretty
>close on that one.
>
>BTW I guess we all know what Weil thinks he is...

Why? Because I comment on someone's behavior?

That's a pretty good joke, Mr. Krueger...

Looks like you failed Logic 101. Or didn't bother with it.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message


> What he meant is that making an ass of yourself on this forum, you are
> likely going to keep people from buying your speakers, because casual
> people interested in your speaker could very well do a Google
> newsgroups search to see what people are saying about the product and
> you've managed to generate about 1000 posts of negative comments

True.

> and have pretty much annoyed the *one* person who was willing to
> publicly comment on the sound from an actual audition.

This is one of Weil's delusions of grandeur.

>They don't
> know who the **** Arnold Krueger, Mike McKelvy or dave weil are. All
> they know is that the "president" of the company is wont to rant like
> a wounded razorback in a mudpit.

True.

> Plus, your defense that the speaker is the most neutral you've ever
> heard (or whatever words you used) holds little weight because you
> would be assumed to say that.

True.

> You started out great but you've been manipulated into screwing your
> own product.

Not even funny. This project was predictably a loser as soon as its
perpetrator's name was made known.

>Then, you let those attacks get the better of you and you
> prematurely jumped on me as well.

True, as well.

Far be it from Singh to miss an opportunity to bite a helping hand.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:37:28 -0400, George M. Middius
> wrote:

>Unless Mr. **** decides to stalk you.....

That's a good point. If you do a people search for me and my known
location, you get three permutations of David Weil (wow, there's a
third one of us now!) But there's only one Dave Weil, so I'd think it
would be pretty easy to figure out. Maybe he wanted to be sure,
considering that Dave Weil is capitalized in the search and he got
confused.

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 06:52:27 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "tor b" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>> From: "Arny Krueger"
>>>> Date: 10/7/2003 8:46 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>> Message-id: >
>>
>>>> "tor b" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> From: trotsky
>>>>>> Date: 10/7/2003 6:29 PM Central Daylight Time
>>>>>> Message-id: >
>>
>>>>> <snipped>
>>
>>>>> Poor, deluded Trotsky wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I have to come up with clever ways
>>>>>> to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really
>>>>>> are. And gee, I thought the rao was a sure thing, too.
>>
>>>>> You really are that stupid, aren't you?
>>
>>>> Sad, but true.
>>
>>>> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?
>>
>>> He was probably smoking the insulation he stripped off some of that
>>> AQ wire he loves so much. ;-)
>>
>> AQ is making wire with hemp insulation? Those guys will do just about
>> anything to sell wire for a high price, why not?
>>
>>> BTW, I noticed that his squawkboxes stopped off in Burbank, CA.,
>>> before making it to dave weil.
>>
>> True, and if you follow up on the signature report, you can find some
>> interesting stuff about Weil.

> What's so interesting about my address? You can do that by doing a
> white pages lookup.

The information there is not nearly as reliable.

> Maybe *that's* the reason you wanted the tracking numbers.

Nope, just something that fell out.

>Silly reason if you ask me.

Agreed.

> BTW, I just gave the speakers to the FedEx guy so they're wheeling
> their way back to Greg as we speak..

Good.

>>> Do I smell the Porkster getting involved here?

>> AFAIK, the Porkster says he wallows in the city of Los Angeles.

>>> Maybe Singh thinks that one of the Porkster's three
>>> regular readers will get interested enough to buy a pair of his
>>> 'lil' ****boxes (?).

>> I wonder if Singh's speakers are so bad that they reduce the surface
>> noise from vinyl? Given his proclivities, that is likely.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> trotsky wrote:
>>
>
>>> At least you're finally admitting you're just here to troll. Kind of
>>> makes Arny and Mickey look like idiots, doesn't it.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, just that I have witnessed more flamewars over the years than I
>> can possibly remember. Nothing phases me anymore. Scream all you
>> want.
>
> I think the word you're looking for is "fazes", but you could be talking
> about your JBLs. Interesting how you troll me, and then say "scream all
> you want." It's like you're already admitting defeat.

Lookie how easy it is to bait you. Heh.

>> Nothing this group can come up with is more than a minor annoyance
>> compared to some of the real flamewars out there.
>
> I don't know what you're talking about, Joe. All I did was come on the
> group to talk about my speakers. You're the one now admitting to being
> a filthy ****ing troll. Do you plan on apologizing to the group?

Being a troll and having survived encounters with ones hundreds of times
worse than anything found in r.a.o. are two different things.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:06:47 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>The information there is not nearly as reliable.

Just curious. Why would you care one way or another?

[Max Holubitsky]

> That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
> research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
> time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
> of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
> problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.

I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."

I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
interesting concept.

[Bruce J. Richman]

Max Holubitsky wrote:


>> That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>> research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>> time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>> of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>> problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>
>I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
>a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>
>I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
>interesting concept.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

LOL!




Bruce J. Richman

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:46:49 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>When I consider buying something relatively expensive, Usenet is one
>>>>>>>of the resources I use to check it out. I know many other people who
>>>>>>>do the same. "Jupiter Audio" is going to provide a lot of hits for
>>>>>>>potential customers direct to this forum, will they be able to make
>>>>>>>sense of what they find?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Excuse me?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You'll have to be more specific than that.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Okay, what did you mean by that last question?
>>>
>>>
>>>What do you mean, what did I mean?
>>
>>
>>You seem to imply that potential customers would have trouble making
>>sense of my website, which, if this is what you meant, should be elaborated.
>
>
> You're not very bright, are you Greg?


That's a loaded question. The obvious answer is if I expected you to
come up with a coherent audio reviewer, then yes, it could be construed
that I'm not bright.


> What he meant is that making an ass of yourself on this forum, you are
> likely going to keep people from buying your speakers, because casual
> people interested in your speaker could very well do a Google
> newsgroups searh to see what people are saying about the product and
> you've managed to generate about 1000 posts of negative comments and
> have pretty much annoyed the *one* person who was willing to
> publically comment on the sound from an actual audition. They don't
> know who the **** Arnold Krueger, Mike McKelvy or dave weil are. All
> they know is that the "president" of the company is wont to rant like
> a wounded razorback in a mudpit.


Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."

I think I'm in the Twilight Zone. (a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can
receive hits, but I'll be goddamned if I know how it's going to "provide
hits." (b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of. Audio Asylum, a
website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind of discussion,
and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com. (c) If you are in ANY WAY
painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
amazingly stupid. I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
Several people--GZ, JA, and John Stone--were very cool, a couple stayed
out of the whole thing, and the rest were a bunch of jag bags trying to
reenact "Lord of the Flies". You haven't been the worst culprit, but
you're still a complete wiener for saying you expected my comments and
then throwing a hissy fit when I actually provided them.

I'm sorry, dave, but your knowledge of how the internet works if really,
really naive. I would put the figure at roughly 75% the number of users
that don't even know Usenet exists, and of the remaining 25% maybe 10%
that ever partake in it. I would expect the number of people Usenet to
research the topic of Jupiter Audio, or any comparable brand of speakers
is hovering right around zero.

For the record, I still have no idea what Dormer's question meant.


> Plus, your defense that the speaker is the most neutral you've ever
> heard (or whatever words you used) holds little weight because you
> would be assumed to say that.


Really--why? I didn't say the speaker had the best resolution I've ever
heard, or the best power handling I've ever seen, or any number of
attributes I could've trumped up but of course never would. You're a
hypocrite, dave: you try and tell people about all the integrity you
have at your job but refuse to be honest about me in the same respect.
You just aren't playing with a full deck.


> You started out great but you've been manipulated into screwing your
> own product. Then, you let those attacks get the better of you and you
> prematurely jumped on me as well.


Hey, here's an experiment: tell us about all the "hits" on Usenet that
generate interest in your restaurant. Or any restaurant. Or any
audiophile quality, non-utilitarian loudspeaker. It's not going to happen.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 23:29:26 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>So I have to come up with clever ways
>>>>to get people to recognize the speakers for how good they really are.
>>>
>>>
>>>Welllll, *this* has been really clever so far. I'm sure this entire
>>>escapade is going to draw them like flies to ****.
>>
>>
>>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
>
>
> It might very well be.
>
> Let's not forget what happened to a very famous messiah around the
> beginning of the last millenium.
>
> Frankly, I'd be more concerned about selling speakers than boosting my
> ego by creating posts on RAO. And if you think that the two are
> related, you're probably right, in inverse proportion of course. At
> least the kind of posts that you're generating.



Yeah, you have a point: which audio manufacturers are you claiming have
generated interest in their product via Usenet? Lots? You're living in
your own private Idaho.

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:07:06 +0100, The Devil > wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>>>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>>>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
>>
>>David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
>>in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.
>
>
> The difference is, he's going to make a lot of money doing it.



dave, how far are you going to sink, man? What the **** is money a
measure of? You'd probably suck a guy's dick if the price was right.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>>What he meant is that making an ass of yourself on this forum, you are
>>likely going to keep people from buying your speakers, because casual
>>people interested in your speaker could very well do a Google
>>newsgroups search to see what people are saying about the product and
>>you've managed to generate about 1000 posts of negative comments
>
>
> True.
>
>
>>and have pretty much annoyed the *one* person who was willing to
>>publicly comment on the sound from an actual audition.
>
>
> This is one of Weil's delusions of grandeur.
>
>
>>They don't
>>know who the **** Arnold Krueger, Mike McKelvy or dave weil are. All
>>they know is that the "president" of the company is wont to rant like
>>a wounded razorback in a mudpit.
>
>
> True.
>
>
>>Plus, your defense that the speaker is the most neutral you've ever
>>heard (or whatever words you used) holds little weight because you
>>would be assumed to say that.
>
>
> True.
>
>
>>You started out great but you've been manipulated into screwing your
>>own product.
>
>
> Not even funny. This project was predictably a loser as soon as its
> perpetrator's name was made known.
>
>
>>Then, you let those attacks get the better of you and you
>>prematurely jumped on me as well.
>
>
> True, as well.
>
> Far be it from Singh to miss an opportunity to bite a helping hand.



Good job, dave: apparently Arny has figured out the best way to troll
you is by agreeing with you.

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>>
>>> trotsky wrote:
>>>
>>
>>>> At least you're finally admitting you're just here to troll. Kind
>>>> of makes Arny and Mickey look like idiots, doesn't it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No, just that I have witnessed more flamewars over the years than I
>>> can possibly remember. Nothing phases me anymore. Scream all you
>>> want.
>>
>>
>> I think the word you're looking for is "fazes", but you could be
>> talking about your JBLs. Interesting how you troll me, and then say
>> "scream all you want." It's like you're already admitting defeat.
>
>
> Lookie how easy it is to bait you. Heh.


You baited me by calling yourself a filthy, disgusting troll?


>>> Nothing this group can come up with is more than a minor annoyance
>>> compared to some of the real flamewars out there.
>>
>>
>> I don't know what you're talking about, Joe. All I did was come on
>> the group to talk about my speakers. You're the one now admitting to
>> being a filthy ****ing troll. Do you plan on apologizing to the group?
>
>
> Being a troll and having survived encounters with ones hundreds of times
> worse than anything found in r.a.o. are two different things.


You've got the arrow pointing in the wrong direction again, Joe.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:38:02 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
>to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
>translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
>******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
>out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
>wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."
>
>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.

Well, yes.

> (a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can receive hits, but I'll be goddamned if I know how it's going to "provide
>hits."

But Jupiter Audio in a USENET keyword search will provide a wealth of
information. Not too bright, are you?

> (b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.

You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
*opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
answers to questions as well.

> Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind of discussion,
>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.


And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
but it's not yet evident.

> (c) If you are in ANY WAY
>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>amazingly stupid.

Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
Bob, etc.

> I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.

And who's the winner in this weird expriment? Surely you don't think
that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?
Remember, even Arnold wished you well until, <gas>, you turned on him
out of the blue. Even *you* admit this. Face it, if there's a
"baseness" in this whole thing, it's yours.

>Several people--GZ, JA, and John Stone--were very cool, a couple stayed
>out of the whole thing, and the rest were a bunch of jag bags trying to
>reenact "Lord of the Flies". You haven't been the worst culprit, but
>you're still a complete wiener for saying you expected my comments and
>then throwing a hissy fit when I actually provided them.

I expected to be able to complete the process. Frankly it's *you* who
threw the hissy fit when I said some things that you didn't like.
<shrug>

[trotsky]

Max Holubitsky wrote:
>>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>
>
> I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
> a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>
> I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
> interesting concept.


Either you're interested in good sound or you're not. Considering you
think Arny is some sort of genius, I'm guessing you're not. How bad is
your hi-fi, by the way?

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:40:12 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Yeah, you have a point: which audio manufacturers are you claiming have
>generated interest in their product via Usenet? Lots? You're living in
>your own private Idaho.

Well, it's the backbone of your marketing strategy, so who's the nuts
one? I guess you're trying to chart new waters. Just make sure that
your boat doesn't have any leaks.

I'm just saying that if I'm going to use USENET and the internet, I'm
not going to try to alienate my potential customer.

[trotsky]

Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> Max Holubitsky wrote:
>
>
>
>>>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>>
>>I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
>>a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>>
>>I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
>>interesting concept.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> LOL!



Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
good sound, either. Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
the products you own, Bruce?

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:43:56 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 13:07:06 +0100, The Devil > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 11:59:52 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
>>>>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
>>>>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
>>>
>>>David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
>>>in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.
>>
>>
>> The difference is, he's going to make a lot of money doing it.
>
>
>
>dave, how far are you going to sink, man? What the **** is money a
>measure of?

Well, by this measure, you'll probably be a smashing success.

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
> good sound, either. Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
> the products you own, Bruce?

This is as dumb a comment as you've ever made, and that's saying
something. In fact, it's the mirror image of Krooger's klaim that he
can tell how much a person "wasted" by inspecting their outlays.

[trotsky]

Langis wrote:
> trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for)
>
>
> The quotes are there because "Jupiter Audio" is the text that would be
> entered into Google.


I actually thought about that but since you didn't bother to confirm
this the first time asked I deemed it unimportant. And by "Google", am
I to assume that you mean Google Groups, or do you think that Google's
standard search engine provides results other than the World Wide Web?


>>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone. (a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can
>>receive hits, but I'll be goddamned if I know how it's going to "provide
>>hits."
>
>
> By providing (or whatever term you find preferable) multiple entries
> to referring search engines.


Again, search engines that specifically provide results for Usenet?
There's not many of those, are there?


>>(b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.
>
>
> I'm surprised to see you discredit your own advice.


PD, you seem to think that you know something about how marketing works,
is effective, etc., and yet I've given you ample examples of why some of
your ideas and concepts need to be rethought. Castle speakers wasn't a
good example. Using Google to search Usenet for product info. and
feedback isn't a realistic idea. Dave's writing in his review of my
speakers wasn't very clear. These are facts--do we need to pussyfoot
around them for some reason?


>>I would expect the number of people Usenet to
>>research the topic of Jupiter Audio, or any comparable brand of speakers
>>is hovering right around zero.
>
>
> I didn't suggest a proportion, but pretty soon now links will pervade
> from even standard search engines, thanks to Korean and Chinese sites
> which mirror Usenet.


Can you provide one?

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

> I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
> human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
> Several people--GZ, JA, and John Stone--were very cool, a couple stayed
> out of the whole thing, and the rest were a bunch of jag bags trying to
> reenact "Lord of the Flies". You haven't been the worst culprit, but
> you're still a complete wiener for saying you expected my comments and
> then throwing a hissy fit when I actually provided them.
>

Thank you for giving us the possibility to conduct a psychiatric experiment.
Thank you for being a so interesting "white mouse" !

This guy is totally crazy. We know why he has been shot from his
previous job !

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:10:02 -0500, dave weil >
wrote:

>ou've been mining for new "revieweres" there,

or "reviewers" even...

[MiNE 109]

In article >,
Langis > wrote:

> MiNE 109 > wrote:
>
> >> >>I like to think of myself as rao's messiah, because I everytime I visit
> >> >>I give them something to talk about--that's not Gene Roddenberry
> >> >>related, no less. Do you think my estimate of 2500 posts is accurate?
> >> >
> >> >David Blaine has a God complex too. He's currently hanging over London
> >> >in a plastic box and getting eggs thrown his way.
> >
> >I hope your arm's not getting sore.
>
> It was the freshly prepared burger passing by at eye level by remote
> control helicopter that made me snort coffee all over the place. So
> cruel, yet innovative!

LOL! Tantalus lives!

Stephen

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:38:02 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
>>to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
>>translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
>>******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
>>out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
>>wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."
>>
>>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>
>
> Well, yes.
>
>
>>(a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can receive hits, but I'll be goddamned if I know how it's going to "provide
>>hits."
>
>
> But Jupiter Audio in a USENET keyword search will provide a wealth of
> information. Not too bright, are you?
>
>
>>(b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.
>
>
> You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
> *opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
> answers to questions as well.


Are you on crack, dave? Are you really saying you know of specific
instances where people have looked on rao "inadvertently" because they
were naively trying to find product information on audiophile
components? Do you have any idea what utter bull**** this is?


>> Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind of discussion,
>>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.
>
>
>
> And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
> and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
> of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
> but it's not yet evident.


I came to rao to see how low people can sink. It's kind of perverse
pleasure for me. I in no way expected this to be any kind of marketing
help, other than the remote possibility that a favorable impression
might give you a reason to spread some word of mouth advertising. I had
no intention of doing any ass kissing, of course. Do you really think
someone would come to this toilet bowl to try and promote a product?
Which restaurant did you say you worked at?


>> (c) If you are in ANY WAY
>>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>>amazingly stupid.
>
>
> Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
> you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
> Bob, etc.


dave, I don't know what's wrong with you. Your mind is swirling full of
some half formed, half baked ideas. It might be from drugs, who knows.
If people troll you you have two choices, answer or don't answer.
Unless it's anonymice, I *always* answer, and I always get the losers to
show their true colors by being to afraid to respond to *my* posts.
Some people are too stupid to keep a correct scorecard, that's hardly my
fault.



>>I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
>
>
> And who's the winner in this weird expriment?


Experiments have "winners"? Aren't there pills you can take to think
more clearly?


Surely you don't think
> that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?
> Remember, even Arnold wished you well until, <gas>, you turned on him
> out of the blue.


That's the biggest crock of **** I've ever heard. Do you have any idea
what treatment you're going to get from Middius for being sympathetic to
Arny?


Even *you* admit this. Face it, if there's a
> "baseness" in this whole thing, it's yours.


That makes sense: I spent my own money to send you the speakers just
because I'm a *******. You should thank me for sticking out my neck and
trusting you, you ungrateful jerk. That painted *you* in a good light
by my assuming you were trustworthy.


>>Several people--GZ, JA, and John Stone--were very cool, a couple stayed
>>out of the whole thing, and the rest were a bunch of jag bags trying to
>>reenact "Lord of the Flies". You haven't been the worst culprit, but
>>you're still a complete wiener for saying you expected my comments and
>>then throwing a hissy fit when I actually provided them.
>
>
> I expected to be able to complete the process. Frankly it's *you* who
> threw the hissy fit when I said some things that you didn't like.
> <shrug>


Clearly <shrug> translates to "I've been busted again."

[Max Holubitsky]

trotsky wrote:

> Max Holubitsky wrote:
> >>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
> >>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
> >>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
> >>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
> >>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
> >
> >
> > I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
> > a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
> >
> > I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
> > interesting concept.
>
> Either you're interested in good sound or you're not. Considering you
> think Arny is some sort of genius, I'm guessing you're not. How bad is
> your hi-fi, by the way?

Right, and one would think that good sound has some sort of relationship with R&D.
One would think that a serious speaker company would be in posession of, or at
least have access to facilities such as an anechoic chamber, calibrated
microphones, at least one engineer who has previously worked for other speaker
companies, etc. etc. Even if you don't release the information to the public, it
would be very useful for optimizing the specs of your speaker so that it is
capable of creating the type of sound you are aiming for.

When I pay money for speakers, I am paying for the above, and also for economy of
scale. Despite all of your arrogant "good sound" comments, I have yet to hear a
speaker whose good sound is not supported by good specs.

If it is possible to obtain such "good sound" in the span of a week, then why do
other speaker companies retain engineering staff? Are they just a bunch of fools,
wasting their money?

My hi-fi is modest, but decent, and it serves its purpose very well.

Also note, at no point did I say Arny was a genious. I simply stated that some of
what he writes makes sense... because it does.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote to Dave :

> That makes sense: I spent my own money to send you the speakers just
> because I'm a *******. You should thank me for sticking out my neck and
> trusting you, you ungrateful jerk. That painted *you* in a good light
> by my assuming you were trustworthy.
>

This guy is playing, he is an actor. I cannot believe it's true.

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> I came to rao to see how low people can sink.

There's that language impediment trying to strangle you again. Not
even Krooger is stupid enough to confuse "see" with "show".

[trotsky]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>>good sound, either. Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
>>the products you own, Bruce?
>
>
> This is as dumb a comment as you've ever made, and that's saying
> something. In fact, it's the mirror image of Krooger's klaim that he
> can tell how much a person "wasted" by inspecting their outlays.


Whatever, George. I'm sure I'm nearly as much trouble as Tribbles.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:38:46 GMT, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

>> You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
>> *opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
>> answers to questions as well.
>
>
>Are you on crack, dave? Are you really saying you know of specific
>instances where people have looked on rao "inadvertently" because they
>were naively trying to find product information on audiophile
>components? Do you have any idea what utter bull**** this is?

No I don't, because it's *not* bull****. Many people come here
searching for info about gear that they've heard about. You have to be
blind not to see that.

>>> Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind of discussion,
>>>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
>> and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
>> of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
>> but it's not yet evident.
>
>
>I came to rao to see how low people can sink. It's kind of perverse
>pleasure for me. I in no way expected this to be any kind of marketing
>help, other than the remote possibility that a favorable impression
>might give you a reason to spread some word of mouth advertising. I had
>no intention of doing any ass kissing, of course.

Well, as you found out, neither did I.

> Do you really think someone would come to this toilet bowl to try and promote a product?
>Which restaurant did you say you worked at?

Nice revisionist bull**** worth of your screen moniker.

The record is clear. You came here to promote your speaker. And you're
stuck in a quagmire of your own making.

>>> (c) If you are in ANY WAY
>>>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>>>amazingly stupid.
>>
>>
>> Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>> you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>> Bob, etc.
>
>
>dave, I don't know what's wrong with you. Your mind is swirling full of
>some half formed, half baked ideas. It might be from drugs, who knows.
> If people troll you you have two choices, answer or don't answer.
>Unless it's anonymice, I *always* answer, and I always get the losers to
>show their true colors by being to afraid to respond to *my* posts.
>Some people are too stupid to keep a correct scorecard, that's hardly my
>fault.

And yet, it's *you* who's been dragged back in. Real bright.

>>>I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>>>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
>>
>>
>> And who's the winner in this weird experiment?
>
>
>Experiments have "winners"? Aren't there pills you can take to think
>more clearly?

"Experiments" like this are supposed to "prove something". One would
hope that there would be a benefit for the person using his product as
bait for guinea pigs.

> Surely you don't think
>> that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?
>> Remember, even Arnold wished you well until, <gas>, you turned on him
>> out of the blue.
>
>
>That's the biggest crock of **** I've ever heard. Do you have any idea
>what treatment you're going to get from Middius for being sympathetic to
>Arny?

Who cares? What's more important is that you are making yourself look
like the **** that you are. When you came back, it was meek as a
doormouse. Now, the true snarling Singh comes out for all to see.

> Even *you* admit this. Face it, if there's a
>> "baseness" in this whole thing, it's yours.
>
>
>That makes sense: I spent my own money to send you the speakers just
>because I'm a *******. You should thank me for sticking out my neck and
>trusting you, you ungrateful jerk.

Bull****. You should thank *me* for accepting your speakers for
review, you ungrateful twit.

You didn't do *me* any favors, you idiot. I didn't ask you to send
them to me, you asked *me*.

> That painted *you* in a good light
>by my assuming you were trustworthy.

You're getting your speakers back, right?

>>>Several people--GZ, JA, and John Stone--were very cool, a couple stayed
>>>out of the whole thing, and the rest were a bunch of jag bags trying to
>>>reenact "Lord of the Flies". You haven't been the worst culprit, but
>>>you're still a complete wiener for saying you expected my comments and
>>>then throwing a hissy fit when I actually provided them.
>>
>>
>> I expected to be able to complete the process. Frankly it's *you* who
>> threw the hissy fit when I said some things that you didn't like.
>> <shrug>
>
>
>Clearly <shrug> translates to "I've been busted again."

What a pussy. Looks like it's time to leave you quivvgering in the
corner of the shower again. I'm your big bad truck driver!!!!

[dave weil]

On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:50:38 GMT, Max Holubitsky > wrote:

>
>
>trotsky wrote:
>
>> Max Holubitsky wrote:
>> >>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>> >>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>> >>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>> >>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>> >>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>> >
>> >
>> > I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
>> > a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>> >
>> > I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
>> > interesting concept.
>>
>> Either you're interested in good sound or you're not. Considering you
>> think Arny is some sort of genius, I'm guessing you're not. How bad is
>> your hi-fi, by the way?
>
>Right, and one would think that good sound has some sort of relationship with R&D.
>One would think that a serious speaker company would be in posession of, or at
>least have access to facilities such as an anechoic chamber, calibrated
>microphones, at least one engineer who has previously worked for other speaker
>companies, etc. etc. Even if you don't release the information to the public, it
>would be very useful for optimizing the specs of your speaker so that it is
>capable of creating the type of sound you are aiming for.
>
>When I pay money for speakers, I am paying for the above, and also for economy of
>scale. Despite all of your arrogant "good sound" comments, I have yet to hear a
>speaker whose good sound is not supported by good specs.
>
>If it is possible to obtain such "good sound" in the span of a week, then why do
>other speaker companies retain engineering staff? Are they just a bunch of fools,
>wasting their money?
>
>My hi-fi is modest, but decent, and it serves its purpose very well.
>
>Also note, at no point did I say Arny was a genious. I simply stated that some of
>what he writes makes sense... because it does.

Don't worry. Greg's in full meltdown mode at the moment...

[Bruce J. Richman]

Greg tries to display his excellent intepersonal and public relations skills by
conning the public again:







>Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>good sound, either.

Prove it, liar. LOL! Needless to say, the above claim is about as logical as
the self-serving, unsubstantiated hogwash
on your website. What are you going to do for a


Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
>the products you own, Bruce?
>
>

What do you care, Greg? You've never cared about anything but your own
delusional audio views in the past, so why ask for information now?

I'm sure that all the speaker manufacturers out there that *didn't* rip off
Madison or some other speaker kit retailer are really worried about your vanity
products. You probably won't even be able to unload the demos you're shipping
around to California, Nashville, and wherever else you can troll for a few
favorable comments.



Bruce J. Richman

[Bruce J. Richman]

George M. Middius wrote:


>trotsky said:
>
>> Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>> good sound, either. Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
>> the products you own, Bruce?
>
>This is as dumb a comment as you've ever made, and that's saying
>something.

Agreed. But one has to give him credit for reaching hitherto never-achieved
heights in transparent lying. Perhaps he's been commuting to Detroit to
further his public relations skills. Of course, he's also done an excellent
job recently of discouraging any ethical reviewer from ever giving an honest
opinion about his erecfor-set-inspired attempt at ripping off a speaker kit
manufacturer.






In fact, it's the mirror image of Krooger's klaim that he
>can tell how much a person "wasted" by inspecting their outlays.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


Bruce J. Richman

[George M. Middius]

Bruce J. Richman said:

> You probably won't even be able to unload the demos you're shipping
> around to California, Nashville, and wherever else you can troll for a few
> favorable comments.

ebay awaits!

I can attest to Gregipus's willingness to dump old stuff on ebay.
There's always somebody like Krooger around to pay top dollar for
broken-down, underperforming audio gear.

[Bruce J. Richman]

Dave Weil wrote:


>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:38:02 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
>>to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
>>translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
>>******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
>>out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
>>wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."
>>
>>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>
>Well, yes.
>

One of the very few "ideas" that Singh has indicating self-awarness.


>> (a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can receive hits, but I'll be goddamned if
>I know how it's going to "provide
>>hits."
>
>But Jupiter Audio in a USENET keyword search will provide a wealth of
>information. Not too bright, are you?
>
>> (b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.
>

An idiotic statement, to say the least. It disounts and ignores all subjective
opinions, as well as a wide range of factual observations, by a large number of
people who, unlike Singh, aren't simply engaging in pathetic attempts at
transparent self-promotion of some questionable products.


>You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
>*opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
>answers to questions as well.
>

Agreed.



>> Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind
>of discussion,
>>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.
>
>
>And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
>and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
>of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
>but it's not yet evident.
>

Singh would have a difficult time responding to subjective opinions on a site
like Audio Asylum, since it is moderated. His pit-bull tendencies would be
shut down rather quickly there.



>> (c) If you are in ANY WAY
>>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>>amazingly stupid.
>
>Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>Bob, etc.
>

He also, quite predictably hasn't hesitated to flame people that weren't even
involved in commenting on his products. Prior to his cheap shot at me - in a
response to George Middius - I hadn't commented on his web site or speakers at
all - other than to make a marketing suggestion that he consider offering a
"package price" for the satelltes and sub sold as a package. So what does he
do? Quite predictably, he takes a cheap shot at me in a thread in which I
hadn't even participated. And now, of course, he's blaming his many trolled
enemies for the negativity he's deliberately provoked.


>> I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
>

Yawn.......... Another day, another rationalization, another lie.


>And who's the winner in this weird expriment? Surely you don't think
>that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?

Actually, he might, I'm sorry to have to admit. He could very well be
operating on the theory that negative publicity is better than none at all. If
nothing else, he's managed to keep the name of his erector-set speaker company
in the title space and content of Usenet threads.



>Remember, even Arnold wished you well until, <gas>, you turned on him
>out of the blue. Even *you* admit this. Face it, if there's a
>"baseness" in this whole thing, it's yours.
>
>>Several people--GZ, JA, and John Stone--were very cool, a couple stayed
>>out of the whole thing, and the rest were a bunch of jag bags trying to
>>reenact "Lord of the Flies". You haven't been the worst culprit, but
>>you're still a complete wiener for saying you expected my comments and
>>then throwing a hissy fit when I actually provided them.
>
>I expected to be able to complete the process. Frankly it's *you* who
>threw the hissy fit when I said some things that you didn't like.
><shrug>
>
>
>
>



Bruce J. Richman

[jeffc]

"tor b" > wrote in message
...
> >From: trotsky
> >Date: 10/8/2003 7:46 AM Central Daylight Time
> >Message-id: >
>
> <snipped>
>
> The Devil wrote:

Trotsky is plonked, and so is anyone who only flames these losers. This
place is starting to look like an audio group (at least for me).
<plonk>

[jeffc]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> > You really are that stupid, aren't you?
>
> Sad, but true.
>
> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?

<plonk>
Cleaning up my RAO, one poster at a time....

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:50:38 GMT, Max Holubitsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>trotsky wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Max Holubitsky wrote:
>>>
>>>>>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>>>>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>>>>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>>>>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>>>>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
>>>>a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>>>>
>>>>I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
>>>>interesting concept.
>>>
>>>Either you're interested in good sound or you're not. Considering you
>>>think Arny is some sort of genius, I'm guessing you're not. How bad is
>>>your hi-fi, by the way?
>>
>>Right, and one would think that good sound has some sort of relationship with R&D.
>>One would think that a serious speaker company would be in posession of, or at
>>least have access to facilities such as an anechoic chamber, calibrated
>>microphones, at least one engineer who has previously worked for other speaker
>>companies, etc. etc. Even if you don't release the information to the public, it
>>would be very useful for optimizing the specs of your speaker so that it is
>>capable of creating the type of sound you are aiming for.
>>
>>When I pay money for speakers, I am paying for the above, and also for economy of
>>scale. Despite all of your arrogant "good sound" comments, I have yet to hear a
>>speaker whose good sound is not supported by good specs.
>>
>>If it is possible to obtain such "good sound" in the span of a week, then why do
>>other speaker companies retain engineering staff? Are they just a bunch of fools,
>>wasting their money?
>>
>>My hi-fi is modest, but decent, and it serves its purpose very well.
>>
>>Also note, at no point did I say Arny was a genious. I simply stated that some of
>>what he writes makes sense... because it does.
>
>
> Don't worry. Greg's in full meltdown mode at the moment...


dave, can you provide an accurate assessment of *anything*?

[dave weil]

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 01:35:36 GMT, "jeffc" > wrote:

>
>"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> > You really are that stupid, aren't you?
>>
>> Sad, but true.
>>
>> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?
>
><plonk>
>Cleaning up my RAO, one poster at a time....

This *could* be the most significant improvement you can make.

Of course, I'm probably next <chuckle>

[George M. Middius]

trotsky said:

> > Don't worry. Greg's in full meltdown mode at the moment...

> dave, can you provide an accurate assessment of *anything*?

I agree, dave has it wrong. I think you are in complete volcanic
eruption. The meltdown is yet to come.

While I have your attention, Gregipus, would you like some therapy
mints? The Resistance intercepted a shipment en route Chez Krooger.
He always throws them in the garbage -- oops, I meant "decorates his
yard with them", excuse please -- so they're all nice and fresh and
ready for a new patient. Like you, for instance. No prescriptions,
no questions to answer -- sounds perfect, doesn't it?

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >"Arny Krueger"
> ><plonk>
> >Cleaning up my RAO, one poster at a time....
>
> This *could* be the most significant improvement you can make.
>
> Of course, I'm probably next <chuckle>

Does j**** know that Krooger also klaims to be a Kristian?

[trotsky]

Max Holubitsky wrote:
>
> trotsky wrote:
>
>
>>Max Holubitsky wrote:
>>
>>>>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>>>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>>>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>>>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>>>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>>>
>>>
>>>I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
>>>a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>>>
>>>I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
>>>interesting concept.
>>
>>Either you're interested in good sound or you're not. Considering you
>>think Arny is some sort of genius, I'm guessing you're not. How bad is
>>your hi-fi, by the way?
>
>
> Right, and one would think that good sound has some sort of relationship with R&D.
> One would think that a serious speaker company would be in posession of, or at
> least have access to facilities such as an anechoic chamber, calibrated
> microphones, at least one engineer who has previously worked for other speaker
> companies, etc. etc. Even if you don't release the information to the public, it
> would be very useful for optimizing the specs of your speaker so that it is
> capable of creating the type of sound you are aiming for.
>
> When I pay money for speakers, I am paying for the above, and also for economy of
> scale. Despite all of your arrogant "good sound" comments, I have yet to hear a
> speaker whose good sound is not supported by good specs.


Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's dogs,
blindly looking for an excuse not to buy. You're using R&D as a crutch,
and lying about it to boot. You have no idea how much time or money was
spent on the design of any speaker. Moreover, you seem to be afraid to
divulge what speakers you own, because if you did you would be shown to
be even more of a liar by not knowing a goddamned thing about what R&D
went into the speaker.



> If it is possible to obtain such "good sound" in the span of a week, then why do
> other speaker companies retain engineering staff? Are they just a bunch of fools,
> wasting their money?


Yeah, pretty much. The entire audio industry is in a slump, in a large
part for this reason. The state of the art isn't advancing fast enough,
and consumers are getting jaded.


> My hi-fi is modest, but decent, and it serves its purpose very well.
>
> Also note, at no point did I say Arny was a genious. I simply stated that some of
> what he writes makes sense... because it does.


Bose makes sense to some people, too.

[trotsky]

Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> Greg tries to display his excellent intepersonal and public relations skills by
> conning the public again:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>
>>good sound, either.
>
>
> Prove it, liar. LOL! Needless to say, the above claim is about as logical as
> the self-serving, unsubstantiated hogwash
> on your website. What are you going to do for a


A penny for your thought, Bruce, but there's a pretty chance that would
be overpaying.


> Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
>
>>the products you own, Bruce?
>>
>>
>
>
> What do you care, Greg? You've never cared about anything but your own
> delusional audio views in the past, so why ask for information now?


I just thought you might want to complete the lie presented by the straw
man you found so funny.


> I'm sure that all the speaker manufacturers out there that *didn't* rip off
> Madison or some other speaker kit retailer are really worried about your vanity
> products. You probably won't even be able to unload the demos you're shipping
> around to California, Nashville, and wherever else you can troll for a few
> favorable comments.


Yeah, that's a bitch, Bruce. At least I won't have to go through life
with a hi-fi that sounds like a limp male member.

[trotsky]

Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> Dave Weil wrote:
>
>
>
>>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:38:02 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>>>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
>>>to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
>>>translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
>>>******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
>>>out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
>>>wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."
>>>
>>>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>>
>>Well, yes.
>>
>
>
> One of the very few "ideas" that Singh has indicating self-awarness.


Bruce, I must say, for a supposed mental health professional it's
amazing how easily you slip into the psychopathology that is this
newsgroup. How can you credibly treat a patient when you're all too
willing to spew garbage in this manner? It's a tough choice, but you
may well be the biggest fraud on this newsgroup.


>>>(a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can receive hits, but I'll be goddamned if
>>
>>I know how it's going to "provide
>>
>>>hits."
>>
>>But Jupiter Audio in a USENET keyword search will provide a wealth of
>>information. Not too bright, are you?
>>
>>
>>>(b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>>>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.
>>
>
> An idiotic statement, to say the least. It disounts and ignores all subjective
> opinions, as well as a wide range of factual observations, by a large number of
> people who, unlike Singh, aren't simply engaging in pathetic attempts at
> transparent self-promotion of some questionable products.


Yeah, that must be it: all this bull**** has been in the name of spam.
God, Bruce, you couldn't come up with an accurate personality profile to
save your life. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?


>>You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
>>*opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
>>answers to questions as well.
>>
>
>
> Agreed.


Suddenly I've stumbled on a clown convention.


>>> Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind
>>
>>of discussion,
>>
>>>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.
>>
>>
>>And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
>>and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
>>of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
>>but it's not yet evident.
>>
>
>
> Singh would have a difficult time responding to subjective opinions on a site
> like Audio Asylum, since it is moderated. His pit-bull tendencies would be
> shut down rather quickly there.


I've made a pretty big splash there too. Why do you have such a problem
with the truth, Bruce?



>>> (c) If you are in ANY WAY
>>>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>>>amazingly stupid.
>>
>>Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>>you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>>Bob, etc.
>>
>
>
> He also, quite predictably hasn't hesitated to flame people that weren't even
> involved in commenting on his products. Prior to his cheap shot at me - in a
> response to George Middius - I hadn't commented on his web site or speakers at
> all - other than to make a marketing suggestion that he consider offering a
> "package price" for the satelltes and sub sold as a package. So what does he
> do? Quite predictably, he takes a cheap shot at me in a thread in which I
> hadn't even participated. And now, of course, he's blaming his many trolled
> enemies for the negativity he's deliberately provoked.


Bruce, you are losing reality contact. YOU said "LOL!" in response to a
cheap shot directed at me. YOU were asking for a verbal beating. At
least be a man about it.


>>>I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>>>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
>>
>
> Yawn.......... Another day, another rationalization, another lie.


Please explain how it's a "rationalization", Bruce. Be as specific as
possible, please.


>>And who's the winner in this weird expriment? Surely you don't think
>>that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?
>
>
> Actually, he might, I'm sorry to have to admit. He could very well be
> operating on the theory that negative publicity is better than none at all. If
> nothing else, he's managed to keep the name of his erector-set speaker company
> in the title space and content of Usenet threads.


Bruce's whacked out psychology: experiments have winners.

[Bruce J. Richman]

trotsky lies again:


>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>> Greg tries to display his excellent intepersonal and public relations
>skills by
>> conning the public again:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>>
>>>good sound, either.
>>
>>
>> Prove it, liar. LOL! Needless to say, the above claim is about as
>logical as
>> the self-serving, unsubstantiated hogwash
>> on your website. What are you going to do for a
>
>
>A penny for your thought, Bruce, but there's a pretty chance that would
>be overpaying.
>
>

I understand your sensitivity to overpaying - since you expect some sucker that
buys your Madisound ripoff speakers to do this for your "ego trip"/experiment
in self-deception.



>> Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
>>
>>>the products you own, Bruce?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> What do you care, Greg? You've never cared about anything but your own
>> delusional audio views in the past, so why ask for information now?
>
>
>I just thought you might want to complete the lie presented by the straw
>man you found so funny.
>

Naah, your lies are much more obvious and transparent. And besides, I have no
reason to lie about anything. You, on th other hand, are trying to deceive the
public into overpaying for your research-challenged and design-challenged
tinkertoys.



>
>> I'm sure that all the speaker manufacturers out there that *didn't* rip
>off
>> Madison or some other speaker kit retailer are really worried about your
>vanity
>> products. You probably won't even be able to unload the demos you're
>shipping
>> around to California, Nashville, and wherever else you can troll for a few
>> favorable comments.
>
>
>Yeah, that's a bitch, Bruce. At least I won't have to go through life
>with a hi-fi that sounds like a limp male member.
>
>

LOL! You don't even know what kind of gear I have, liar. I'll leave the
comparison to limp male members to you, and the mirrors in your hovel. Perhaps
you can enlighten RAO as to what your limp male member sounds like, since you
seem fixated on it.

Couldn't you spring for a tuning fork instead? Or would that have
overstretched your design budget?







Bruce J. Richman

[Bruce J. Richman]

trotsky lies and libels into new areas of incompetence:


>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>> Dave Weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:38:02 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>>>>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
>>>>to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
>>>>translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
>>>>******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
>>>>out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
>>>>wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."
>>>>
>>>>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>>>
>>>Well, yes.
>>>
>>
>>
>> One of the very few "ideas" that Singh has indicating self-awarness.
>
>
>Bruce, I must say, for a supposed mental health professional it's
>amazing how easily you slip into the psychopathology that is this
>newsgroup. How can you credibly treat a patient when you're all too
>willing to spew garbage in this manner? It's a tough choice, but you
>may well be the biggest fraud on this newsgroup.
>

Greg, considering your shameliess shilling for a unuiversally ridiculed and
exposed cheapass set of speakers that you've overpriced, your descent into
libel is entirely keeping with your lack of character. It's no surprised that
you were canned from the stereo store at which you tried to deceive the public.
Your crediibility re. audio, my credentials, your speakers, and most of all
your idiotic proclamations about psychology simply reveal how truly arrogant
and stupid you continue to be in all respects. Whatever therapist suggested
you build a pair of cheap speakers as part of your vocational rehabilitation
probably took pity on your lack of competence. Your contacts with reality
continue to loosen, and almost everybody on RAO has seen it happen with you
over and over again.



>
>>>>(a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can receive hits, but I'll be goddamned
>if
>>>
>>>I know how it's going to "provide
>>>
>>>>hits."
>>>
>>>But Jupiter Audio in a USENET keyword search will provide a wealth of
>>>information. Not too bright, are you?
>>>
>>>
>>>>(b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>>>>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.
>>>
>>
>> An idiotic statement, to say the least. It disounts and ignores all
>subjective
>> opinions, as well as a wide range of factual observations, by a large
>number of
>> people who, unlike Singh, aren't simply engaging in pathetic attempts at
>> transparent self-promotion of some questionable products.
>
>
>Yeah, that must be it: all this bull**** has been in the name of spam.

If it came from you, it certainly was. You've never been able to tell the
truth about other people. In fact, you're resorting to libel again - as is
your custom, conman.

>God, Bruce, you couldn't come up with an accurate personality profile to
>save your life. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
>

I've got you pegged perfectly, liar. Your total lack of insight into your
sociopathic, narcissitic attempts to dwfraud the public via a phony website
expose you to all your detractors. But you just keep on trying to distort the
facts about your failed sales career through yet another pathetic attempt to
con the public through another P.T. Barnum spiel about a set of speakers that
you can't *give* away.




>>>You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
>>>*opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
>>>answers to questions as well.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Agreed.
>
>
>Suddenly I've stumbled on a clown convention.
>

You've been stumbling for years, Clarabelle.



>
>>>> Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind
>>>
>>>of discussion,
>>>
>>>>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
>>>and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
>>>of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
>>>but it's not yet evident.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Singh would have a difficult time responding to subjective opinions on a
>site
>> like Audio Asylum, since it is moderated. His pit-bull tendencies would be
>> shut down rather quickly there.
>
>
>I've made a pretty big splash there too. Why do you have such a problem
>with the truth, Bruce?
>
>

Why do you keep lying, Greg? Where is the evidence for your "big splash",
liar? Why don't you provide copies of all the posts that have commended your
lame attempts to swindle newbies with your latest self-indulgent set of
traveling speakers. Maybe the next time the circus comes to town, you can try
out for the barker position for the freak show. But I'd suggest you stop
comparing the equipment of others to limp dicks or people might think you have
an abnormal nead to talk about your chronic problem.



>
>>>> (c) If you are in ANY WAY
>>>>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>>>>amazingly stupid.
>>>
>>>Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>>>you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>>>Bob, etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> He also, quite predictably hasn't hesitated to flame people that weren't
>even
>> involved in commenting on his products. Prior to his cheap shot at me - in
>a
>> response to George Middius - I hadn't commented on his web site or speakers
>at
>> all - other than to make a marketing suggestion that he consider offering a
>> "package price" for the satelltes and sub sold as a package. So what does
>he
>> do? Quite predictably, he takes a cheap shot at me in a thread in which I
>> hadn't even participated. And now, of course, he's blaming his many
>trolled
>> enemies for the negativity he's deliberately provoked.
>
>
>Bruce, you are losing reality contact. YOU said "LOL!" in response to a
>cheap shot directed at me. YOU were asking for a verbal beating. At
>least be a man about it.
>
>

You're lying through your teeth, you wortrhless piece of merde. Did you or did
you not drag my name into an idiotic comment about medications directed at
George Middius? And if you deny it, Google will expose you once again - as it
has many times over the years. Can't you tell the truth about this, Greg? If
you don't admit it, why should anybody believe anything else you have to say
about me or anybody else for that matter? You're just making it up as you go -
sort of like your responses to valid criticisms about your speakers.
>>>>I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>>>>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
>>>
>>
>> Yawn.......... Another day, another rationalization, another lie.
>
>
>Please explain how it's a "rationalization", Bruce. Be as specific as
>possible, please.
>
>

No need to test your limited powers of comprehension, Greg. You are simply
lying again about "sociological experiments". You don't even know how to
design a pair of speakers using what most people would consider reasonable
measurement and auditioning procedures.
It's obvious that you simply decided to invent a fantasy about "sociological
experiments" rather than face the sad facts about the public derisiion of your
speakers.

But you've unwittingly found a valid use for them. Try and get Rafael Palmeiro
to endorse them as a viable Viagra alternative. You can tell him all about
your "limp dick" theories. Hint - try and do it *before* they come and take
you away, however.



>>>And who's the winner in this weird expriment? Surely you don't think
>>>that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?
>>
>>
>> Actually, he might, I'm sorry to have to admit. He could very well be
>> operating on the theory that negative publicity is better than none at all.
>If
>> nothing else, he's managed to keep the name of his erector-set speaker
>company
>> in the title space and content of Usenet threads.
>
>
>Bruce's whacked out psychology: experiments have winners.
>
>

Greg's delusional rantings have about as much credibility as his overpriced,
overhyped speakers. Next thing you know, he'll be trying to sell solid silver
core speaker cables that he's personally tested and found superior to all
others. And if you don't agree, you must be lying - LOL!



Bruce J. Richman

[Joseph Oberlander]

Max Holubitsky wrote:

>>That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>
>
> I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
> a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>
> I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
> interesting concept.

You forgot speaker wire ;)

[Max Holubitsky]

> Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's dogs,
> blindly looking for an excuse not to buy. You're using R&D as a crutch,
> and lying about it to boot. You have no idea how much time or money was
> spent on the design of any speaker. Moreover, you seem to be afraid to
> divulge what speakers you own, because if you did you would be shown to
> be even more of a liar by not knowing a goddamned thing about what R&D
> went into the speaker.

You want to know what speakers I own? Well here we go, in chronological order.

Tannoy Saturn S6 - Bought earlier this year... love them, with all types of music, and
movies too. It took a lot of shopping around to get to these, but I'm going to stay with
them for a while. These speakers excel in just about every way, and I could not possibly
be happier with them.

Magnepan MG IIB - These were good, but now inhabit the closet, because they have too
many flaws. Sweet spot is very small, horizontal dispersion of high frequencies is
horrible, and the bass is rolled off due to the dipole nature of the speaker. Imaging is
excellent though, and the depth they create is awesome.

Goodmans Triaxials - Relics from the early 60s - I built maple veneer cabinets for them
in the early 90s, while I was in high school. With a 50 watt amp, they would actually
knock things off shelves... you could hear them down the street too. I never heard AC/DC
sound as good as it did on these, but they really were not that accurate, so I moved on.

To address your other comment, to say that no R&D goes into products, is to deny that
progress takes place.

> Yeah, pretty much. The entire audio industry is in a slump, in a large
> part for this reason. The state of the art isn't advancing fast enough,
> and consumers are getting jaded.

Could have fooled me, it seems like you are the one who is jaded. If the state of the
art is not advancing, why can I buy a DVD player for $150 now, when 5 years ago it was
$800 for a worse player? Why are TV's cheaper than ever?

Why do speakers have lower distortion, better specs, and lower prices than ever?

Why can one go to the store and buy a device like an iPod, when 5 years ago I would have
needed a bank of hard drives connected to a bulky laptop?

To say that the state of the art is not advancing is absurd, and closed minded.

> > Also note, at no point did I say Arny was a genious. I simply stated that some of
> > what he writes makes sense... because it does.
>
> Bose makes sense to some people, too.

You're right about that. Probably the people you are targeting. People who are willing
to buy an overpriced speaker, built with imported drivers. People who buy something
because the manufacturer's website says it sounds good.

[Joseph Oberlander]

dave weil wrote:


> Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
> you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
> Bob, etc.

I honestly tried to suggest changes and improvements to his design,
plus pointed out that he would have a hard time selling them at the
price he's planning to sell them for.

He spewed flak and excrement all over the place due to his fragile ego.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

> Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's dogs,
> blindly looking for an excuse not to buy. You're using R&D as a crutch,
> and lying about it to boot.

So why don't you do R&D right, then? Surely it can only improve
the accuracy of your speaker. Prove us all wrong and DON'T use
it as a crutch, but to your advantage instead.

[Max Holubitsky]

> > I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
> > a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
> >
> > I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
> > interesting concept.
>
> You forgot speaker wire ;)

You have to admit, unlike Trotsky's endevour it's marketing genious. Creating a
market where there wasn't one before. Cables used to be included with components,
and now they have entire sections of stores devoted to them. Have you noticed how
the cable phenomena has carried over into computer cables ? Some of the stores
around here don't carry a normal USB cable, but rather a $30 one, with gold plated
ends, and a giant plastic package telling you how great it is.

I wonder when Leviton is going to start selling permium extension cords, and GE
light bulbs with a gold plated thread?

;)

[Lionel]

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>Don't worry. Greg's in full meltdown mode at the moment...
>
>
>
>>dave, can you provide an accurate assessment of *anything*?
>
>
> I agree, dave has it wrong. I think you are in complete volcanic
> eruption. The meltdown is yet to come.
>
....Greg "Onan" Trotsky

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Max Holubitsky wrote:
>
>>
>> trotsky wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Max Holubitsky wrote:
>>>
>>>>> That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>>>> research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the
>>>>> first
>>>>> time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the
>>>>> tweeters out
>>>>> of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>>>> problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of
>>>> dollars, and
>>>> a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>>>>
>>>> I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it
>>>> retailed for...
>>>> interesting concept.
>>>
>>>
>>> Either you're interested in good sound or you're not. Considering you
>>> think Arny is some sort of genius, I'm guessing you're not. How bad is
>>> your hi-fi, by the way?
>>
>>
>>
>> Right, and one would think that good sound has some sort of
>> relationship with R&D.
>> One would think that a serious speaker company would be in posession
>> of, or at
>> least have access to facilities such as an anechoic chamber, calibrated
>> microphones, at least one engineer who has previously worked for other
>> speaker
>> companies, etc. etc. Even if you don't release the information to the
>> public, it
>> would be very useful for optimizing the specs of your speaker so that
>> it is
>> capable of creating the type of sound you are aiming for.
>>
>> When I pay money for speakers, I am paying for the above, and also for
>> economy of
>> scale. Despite all of your arrogant "good sound" comments, I have yet
>> to hear a
>> speaker whose good sound is not supported by good specs.
>
>
>
> Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's dogs,
> blindly looking for an excuse not to buy.


This is the contrary of what we can learn in business schools.
Your business knowledge is at the level of your technical one. ;-)
Every *good* salesmen know that you are wrong. I'm not surprised that
you have been fired from your job !

You can't get no... satisfaction.

[Arny Krueger]

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message


> >Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>> good sound, either.

> Prove it, liar.

I suggest that someone just count up the number of words that Richman has
posted in the past year about audio, and the number of words he's posted in
flames and personal attacks.

Here's a recent example of a typical Bruce Richman post. Notice that google
shows it to be the first post in a thread. IOW, Richman started this thread
for the purpose of making personal attacks. Notice the large number of
words. See what light you can find it shedding on audio:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=20030504203411.06124.00001023%40mb-m07.aol
..com

Bruce Richman wrote:

All you've seen for the last 4 or 5 days is the increasingly delusional,
slanderous and demonstrably psychotic ravings of an antisocial sociopath
calling himself McKelvy who has, as I correctly predicted, continuously
escalated in both frequency and intensity a series of personal attacks
against
me.

I have chosen not to reward his antisocial, delusional and false rantings
and
ravings with a direct response. As is often the case when seriously
disturbed
individuals don't get their irratinal needs met via postivie reinforcement,
the
response is to try "harder" to get what they can't get through any other
mechanism - acknowledgment and/or approval for their delusional speech and
inappropriate behavior. This is the type of action that has characterized
the
antisocial, psychotic behaviors of somebody calling himself McKelvy on ROA
for
a long period of time. His actions are supported by practically noone

Unable to get his hatemongering and slander defense needs met in any other
way,
he has decided now to emulate his role model, Krueger, by starting yet
another
personal attack thread bearing my name. That is the only reason my response
is
under a title bearing the name (?) of this antisocial liar, sociopath, and
seriously thought-disordered poor excuse for a human being.

So before drawing conclusions about "bickering", Mr. Lobley, perhaps you
need
to look at THE PRESENT RECORD OF WHO'S DEFAMING WHO DIRECTLY BY MAKING FALSE
CLAIMS AND STARTING PERSONAL ATTACK THREADS?:

You will note that the only responses I've made at all to the psychotic
McKelvy's escalation on a daily basis of slander, lies, and psychotic
statements about me is to either his fellow sociopath, Krueger, who of
course,
endorses McKelvy's lies and tries to help him out, or in direct response to
questions such as yours, Mr. Lobely, which choose to ignore the reality that
McKelvy (?) is escalating personal attacks on a daily basis in response to
my
decision to extinguish his psychotic behavior directed against me.

[Arny Krueger]

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
ink.net
> Max Holubitsky wrote:
>
>>> That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so
>>> doing research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed
>>> up the first time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and
>>> wired the tweeters out of phase. When I figured out what I did
>>> wrong and corrected the problem, I knew I had something really,
>>> really good on my hands.
>>
>>
>> I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of
>> dollars, and a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was
>> born...."
>>
>> I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it
>> retailed for... interesting concept.
>
> You forgot speaker wire ;)

Good one!

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message


> Good job, dave: apparently Arny has figured out the best way to troll
> you is by agreeing with you.

Good one!

[Arny Krueger]

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:06:47 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> The information there is not nearly as reliable.
>
> Just curious. Why would you care one way or another?

I amuse myself in odd ways, such as figuring out that you live just about
accross the street from a bar, and generally in a pretty rough neighborhood.

[Arny Krueger]

"jeffc" > wrote in message
m

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>>> You really are that stupid, aren't you?

>> Sad, but true.

>> What was Singh thinking? More to the point, what was he smoking?

> <plonk>

> Cleaning up my RAO, one poster at a time....

<Jeff has already shown himself to be a really broad-minded guy.>

[Arny Krueger]

dave weil wrote in >

> Let's not forget what happened to a very famous messiah around the
> beginning of the last millenium.

I love these self-proclaimed eggspherts on Christianity who have their
history about 1,000 years off.

Their theology is almost as good!

At least we can use this statement to improve our estimate of which universe
Weil is in.

[trotsky]

Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> trotsky lies again:
>
>
>
>>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>>
>>>Greg tries to display his excellent intepersonal and public relations
>>
>>skills by
>>
>>>conning the public again:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >Naturally, Richman has proven time and time again he isn't interested in
>>>
>>>
>>>>good sound, either.
>>>
>>>
>>>Prove it, liar. LOL! Needless to say, the above claim is about as
>>
>>logical as
>>
>>>the self-serving, unsubstantiated hogwash
>>>on your website. What are you going to do for a
>>
>>
>>A penny for your thought, Bruce, but there's a pretty chance that would
>>be overpaying.
>>
>>
>
>
> I understand your sensitivity to overpaying - since you expect some sucker that
> buys your Madisound ripoff speakers to do this for your "ego trip"/experiment
> in self-deception.


Maybe the experiment will have a winner!


>>> Do you have dollar amounts on the money spent on
>>>
>>>
>>>>the products you own, Bruce?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>What do you care, Greg? You've never cared about anything but your own
>>>delusional audio views in the past, so why ask for information now?
>>
>>
>>I just thought you might want to complete the lie presented by the straw
>>man you found so funny.
>>
>
>
> Naah, your lies are much more obvious and transparent. And besides, I have no
> reason to lie about anything. You, on th other hand, are trying to deceive the
> public into overpaying for your research-challenged and design-challenged
> tinkertoys.


Whatever, Bruce. You're a fraud. I challenge you to find a single
person that I have lied to about anything. Humanity is just a closed
book for you.


>>>I'm sure that all the speaker manufacturers out there that *didn't* rip
>>
>>off
>>
>>>Madison or some other speaker kit retailer are really worried about your
>>
>>vanity
>>
>>>products. You probably won't even be able to unload the demos you're
>>
>>shipping
>>
>>>around to California, Nashville, and wherever else you can troll for a few
>>>favorable comments.
>>
>>
>>Yeah, that's a bitch, Bruce. At least I won't have to go through life
>>with a hi-fi that sounds like a limp male member.
>>
>>
>
>
> LOL! You don't even know what kind of gear I have, liar.


No, of course not, but we can be certain it's got decades of R&D behind
it--that's the important thing.

Oh, that's right, you don't know if there's any R&D behind it--that
would make you a LIAR.

[Lionel]

trotsky wrote:

>
> Whatever, Bruce. You're a fraud. I challenge you to find a single
> person that I have lied to about anything.

I have one : *YOU*

LOL !

[trotsky]

Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> trotsky lies and libels into new areas of incompetence:
>
>
>
>>Bruce J. Richman wrote:
>>
>>>Dave Weil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:38:02 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Ah, I see. You guys are speaking some other dialect that I don't know
>>>>>about. ""Jupiter Audio" (don't know what the quotes were for) is going
>>>>>to provide a lot of hits for potential customers direct to this forum"
>>>>>translates to "the myriad casual people that don't know how much of a
>>>>>******** this newsgroup are going to do a Google Groups search to find
>>>>>out what's been said about Jupiter Audio on Usenet, because there is a
>>>>>wealth of information available there for potential product purchases."
>>>>>
>>>>>I think I'm in the Twilight Zone.
>>>>
>>>>Well, yes.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>One of the very few "ideas" that Singh has indicating self-awarness.
>>
>>
>>Bruce, I must say, for a supposed mental health professional it's
>>amazing how easily you slip into the psychopathology that is this
>>newsgroup. How can you credibly treat a patient when you're all too
>>willing to spew garbage in this manner? It's a tough choice, but you
>>may well be the biggest fraud on this newsgroup.
>>
>
>
> Greg, considering your shameliess shilling for a unuiversally ridiculed and
> exposed cheapass set of speakers that you've overpriced,


dave, do you agree with this, or would say Bruce is just LYING here?


your descent into
> libel is entirely keeping with your lack of character. It's no surprised that
> you were canned from the stereo store at which you tried to deceive the public.
> Your crediibility re. audio, my credentials, your speakers, and most of all
> your idiotic proclamations about psychology simply reveal how truly arrogant
> and stupid you continue to be in all respects. Whatever therapist suggested
> you build a pair of cheap speakers as part of your vocational rehabilitation
> probably took pity on your lack of competence. Your contacts with reality
> continue to loosen, and almost everybody on RAO has seen it happen with you
> over and over again.



Bruce, this is said. Everytime you LIE about me, it shows that you
simply aren't perceptive enough about people to deal in the truth. And
yet you're paid money for "helping" people--how is this not fraudulent?
Meanwhile, I challenge you to find a single person who claims I lied
or deceived them about anything. You can't do it, because you are a
LIAR. Don't project your character flaws on me.



>>>>>(a) Jupiter Audio, as a website, can receive hits, but I'll be goddamned
>>>>
>>if
>>
>>>>I know how it's going to "provide
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>hits."
>>>>
>>>>But Jupiter Audio in a USENET keyword search will provide a wealth of
>>>>information. Not too bright, are you?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(b) There is *no* useful info. on potential purchases of
>>>>>audiophile products available on Usenet that I know of.
>>>>
>>>An idiotic statement, to say the least. It disounts and ignores all
>>
>>subjective
>>
>>>opinions, as well as a wide range of factual observations, by a large
>>
>>number of
>>
>>>people who, unlike Singh, aren't simply engaging in pathetic attempts at
>>>transparent self-promotion of some questionable products.
>>
>>
>>Yeah, that must be it: all this bull**** has been in the name of spam.
>
>
> If it came from you, it certainly was. You've never been able to tell the
> truth about other people. In fact, you're resorting to libel again - as is
> your custom, conman.
>
>
>>God, Bruce, you couldn't come up with an accurate personality profile to
>>save your life. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?
>>
>
>
> I've got you pegged perfectly, liar. Your total lack of insight into your
> sociopathic, narcissitic attempts to dwfraud the public via a phony website
> expose you to all your detractors. But you just keep on trying to distort the
> facts about your failed sales career through yet another pathetic attempt to
> con the public through another P.T. Barnum spiel about a set of speakers that
> you can't *give* away.


George, do you agree with this?


>>>>You are obviously unaware that many people come to USENET for
>>>>*opinions" about gear. Sometimes they even come looking for facts or
>>>>answers to questions as well.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Agreed.
>>
>>
>>Suddenly I've stumbled on a clown convention.
>>
>
>
> You've been stumbling for years, Clarabelle.


Bruce, that was a Hippocratic oath, not a hypocritical oath. Don't you
have any sympathy for my "sociopathology" and "narcissism"? You're
making a mockery of the "Dr." moniker, much like Krueger does with
Christianity. Aren't you ashamed of yourself?


>>>>>Audio Asylum, a website, is the best candidate on the 'net for this kind
>>>>
>>>>of discussion,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and, to a lesser extent, audioreview.com.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And yet you came here to RAO. I just did a quick search on the Asylum
>>>>and didn't come up with anything. Maybe you've been posting hundreds
>>>>of messages and maybe you've been mining for new "revieweres" there,
>>>>but it's not yet evident.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Singh would have a difficult time responding to subjective opinions on a
>>
>>site
>>
>>>like Audio Asylum, since it is moderated. His pit-bull tendencies would be
>>>shut down rather quickly there.
>>
>>
>>I've made a pretty big splash there too. Why do you have such a problem
>>with the truth, Bruce?
>>
>>
>
>
> Why do you keep lying, Greg? Where is the evidence for your "big splash",
> liar? Why don't you provide copies of all the posts that have commended your
> lame attempts to swindle newbies with your latest self-indulgent set of
> traveling speakers. Maybe the next time the circus comes to town, you can try
> out for the barker position for the freak show. But I'd suggest you stop
> comparing the equipment of others to limp dicks or people might think you have
> an abnormal nead to talk about your chronic problem.



Bruce, it's not like you can have a credible discussion of what good
sound is, anyway. You've got equipment that all the magazines like,
which, believe me, is not a good thing.


>>>>>(c) If you are in ANY WAY
>>>>>painting me as the instigator of "negative comments" here you are
>>>>>amazingly stupid.
>>>>
>>>>Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>>>>you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>>>>Bob, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>He also, quite predictably hasn't hesitated to flame people that weren't
>>
>>even
>>
>>>involved in commenting on his products. Prior to his cheap shot at me - in
>>
>>a
>>
>>>response to George Middius - I hadn't commented on his web site or speakers
>>
>>at
>>
>>>all - other than to make a marketing suggestion that he consider offering a
>>>"package price" for the satelltes and sub sold as a package. So what does
>>
>>he
>>
>>>do? Quite predictably, he takes a cheap shot at me in a thread in which I
>>>hadn't even participated. And now, of course, he's blaming his many
>>
>>trolled
>>
>>>enemies for the negativity he's deliberately provoked.
>>
>>
>>Bruce, you are losing reality contact. YOU said "LOL!" in response to a
>>cheap shot directed at me. YOU were asking for a verbal beating. At
>>least be a man about it.
>>
>>
>
>
> You're lying through your teeth, you wortrhless piece of merde. Did you or did
> you not drag my name into an idiotic comment about medications directed at
> George Middius?


Right, and his online behavior is that of a normal person? He might be
more normal in real life, which I doubt, but his online persona reeks of
an obsessive-compulsive personality disorder. You don't have the balls
to discuss the facts, Bruce--why are you wasting bandwidth like this?


And if you deny it, Google will expose you once again - as it
> has many times over the years. Can't you tell the truth about this, Greg? If
> you don't admit it, why should anybody believe anything else you have to say
> about me or anybody else for that matter? You're just making it up as you go -
> sort of like your responses to valid criticisms about your speakers.


Which "valid criticisms" are you referring to, Bruce? The one where
dave said they were better than 95% of the speakers on the market, which
I actually agree with? Do you think your speakers might be among that
95%? Be as honest as possible, please.


>>>>>I conducted a sociology experiment to see how base
>>>>>human beings can be with an audio subject--my speakers--as a backdrop.
>>>>
>>>Yawn.......... Another day, another rationalization, another lie.
>>
>>
>>Please explain how it's a "rationalization", Bruce. Be as specific as
>>possible, please.
>>
>>
>
>
> No need to test your limited powers of comprehension, Greg. You are simply
> lying again about "sociological experiments". You don't even know how to
> design a pair of speakers using what most people would consider reasonable
> measurement and auditioning procedures.


And yet the results are awesome. Why LIE about this, Bruce?


> It's obvious that you simply decided to invent a fantasy about "sociological
> experiments" rather than face the sad facts about the public derisiion of your
> speakers.


Right. I'm so ****ing stupid as to think that guys like you are capable
of behaving like human beings while discussing that I spent a lot of
time and money on. You're just another effete asshole who wants to
trash *my* work, while not having the balls to discuss your own work.
Since I realize this, and since the anti-social component of this group
is OBVIOUS, a sociology experiment is the BEST way to describe my
participation here. You're in serious denial, buddy.


> But you've unwittingly found a valid use for them. Try and get Rafael Palmeiro
> to endorse them as a viable Viagra alternative. You can tell him all about
> your "limp dick" theories. Hint - try and do it *before* they come and take
> you away, however.


Bruce, I think threats/jokes of me being "taken away" shows just how
much of a fake you are. Are real doctor wouldn't say anything like this.


>>>>And who's the winner in this weird expriment? Surely you don't think
>>>>that *you* are going to gain anything from this "experiment", right?
>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, he might, I'm sorry to have to admit. He could very well be
>>>operating on the theory that negative publicity is better than none at all.
>>
>>If
>>
>>>nothing else, he's managed to keep the name of his erector-set speaker
>>
>>company
>>
>>>in the title space and content of Usenet threads.
>>
>>
>>Bruce's whacked out psychology: experiments have winners.
>>
>>
>
>
> Greg's delusional rantings have about as much credibility as his overpriced,
> overhyped speakers. Next thing you know, he'll be trying to sell solid silver
> core speaker cables that he's personally tested and found superior to all
> others. And if you don't agree, you must be lying - LOL!


I'm glad you're having a laugh about it, Bruce. Did you **** on your
Hippocratic oath literally or figuratively, by the way?

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> Max Holubitsky wrote:
>
>>> That's more or less exactly what happened. I spent a week or so doing
>>> research, and then decided to build a prototype. I screwed up the first
>>> time and didn't read the schematic correctly, and wired the tweeters out
>>> of phase. When I figured out what I did wrong and corrected the
>>> problem, I knew I had something really, really good on my hands.
>>
>>
>>
>> I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of
>> dollars, and
>> a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>>
>> I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed
>> for...
>> interesting concept.
>
>
> You forgot speaker wire ;)


That's true. The prototypes that I built have old AQ Type 2 wire, and
the subsequent production models will have QED Silver Anniversary wire
in them, which is fairly expensive. Not that facts are really what a
admitted troll like you is interested in, of course.

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> dave weil wrote:
>
>
>> Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>> you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>> Bob, etc.
>
>
> I honestly tried to suggest changes and improvements to his design,


Was that before or after you admitted to being a troll, Joe?

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>> Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's
>> dogs, blindly looking for an excuse not to buy. You're using R&D as a
>> crutch, and lying about it to boot.
>
>
> So why don't you do R&D right,


Joe, you're in quite a bind here. You have taken the path that Bob
Morion took. I make an excellent speaker, but because you have behaved
like such a turd, you will never get to hear it. Thus you're destined
to talk out of your ass for time immemorial. My entire adult life has
been research into what sounds good and what doesn't, and what speaker
design principles hold water and which don't. I think this is obvious
from even a casual glance at my website. You are an admitted troll,
though, and have no interest in the truth.

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message


> Whatever, Bruce. You're a fraud.

Bruce always seems to be able to make it look that way.

> I challenge you to find a single person that I have lied to about
anything.

Letsee Singh, who did you have that speaker cable listening test bet with,
anyhow?

What did you do with the body? Is that why we can't find "a single person".

Oh yeah I remember, the guy you bet with was married. So it's true that we
can't find "a single person".

But then he got divorced, or is my memory failing? Doesn't that make him "a
single person " again.

I think you're still on the hook Singh, that is if we ever find the body.

> Humanity is just a closed book for you.

Bruce always seems to be able to make it look that way.

[trotsky]

Max Holubitsky wrote:
>>>I can just see the advertising copy now... "After many tens of dollars, and
>>>a few days of painstaking research, the Europa was born...."
>>>
>>>I've never seen a product which cost less to develop than it retailed for...
>>>interesting concept.
>>
>>You forgot speaker wire ;)
>
>
> You have to admit, unlike Trotsky's endevour it's marketing genious. Creating a
> market where there wasn't one before. Cables used to be included with components,
> and now they have entire sections of stores devoted to them. Have you noticed how
> the cable phenomena has carried over into computer cables ? Some of the stores
> around here don't carry a normal USB cable, but rather a $30 one, with gold plated
> ends, and a giant plastic package telling you how great it is.
>
> I wonder when Leviton is going to start selling permium extension cords, and GE
> light bulbs with a gold plated thread?


Still waiting to hear how bad your hi-fi is, "Max".

[dave weil]

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:32:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:06:47 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The information there is not nearly as reliable.
>>
>> Just curious. Why would you care one way or another?
>
>I amuse myself in odd ways, such as figuring out that you live just about
>accross the street from a bar, and generally in a pretty rough neighborhood.

Actually I live within 30 yards of a church. In fact, there are 3
churches closer to me than a bar. I also live less than a mile from a
Harley dealership and virtually across the street from that is a
public library and a school.

As to my neighborhood, yes, it's an urban neighborhood. In fact, it's
a neighborhood that's quite interesting in quite a few ways, but it's
also a neighborhood where the values of homes are going up quite
dramatically. So, I guess I'm ahead of the curve. My neighborhood is
just about the oldest "suburban" neighborhood in Nashville. My house
has a title date of 1918, but oldsters from the neighborhood say that
it dates back much further. One of them thought that it dated from the
1880s but I'm not sure if I believe that.

I'm glad that you took the time to look me up on Mapquest and then
cross-reference it with other internet sources. I'll agree that it's
an odd way to spend your time - that much we agree with.

So, next time, if you want to know about where I live, you can come to
me with hat in hand and ask me without a bunch of attitude. If you do
that, I'll answer your questions. Heck, I might even send you a
picture of my little hovel. Just lose the attitude first. It will save
you a lot of "odd" recreational time.

[dave weil]

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:37:40 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
>dave weil wrote in >
>
>> Let's not forget what happened to a very famous messiah around the
>> beginning of the last millenium.
>
>I love these self-proclaimed eggspherts on Christianity who have their
>history about 1,000 years off.

You are correct. Already 3 years into the new one and I'm still stuck
in terminology of the one that I basically grew up in.

>Their theology is almost as good!
>
>At least we can use this statement to improve our estimate of which universe
>Weil is in.

Yes, the universe where someone can misspeak. "Rediculous", right?

[George M. Middius]

dave weil said:

> >> Just curious. Why would you care one way or another?

> >I amuse myself in odd ways, such as figuring out that you live just about
> >accross[sic] the street from a bar, and generally in a pretty rough neighborhood.

> Actually I live within 30 yards of a church. In fact, there are 3
> churches closer to me than a bar. I also live less than a mile from a
> Harley dealership and virtually across the street from that is a
> public library and a school.

Facts and reality aside, Krooger has just admitted he lied when he
said he has a full-time job. Anybody who has time to burn tracking
down addresses in a faraway city just to score "debating trade"
points can't be at all busy. Of course, Mr. **** apparently got it
all wrong, but that's par for the course when he "fires up" a search
engine.

OTOH, Krooger's latest round of admissions support the stalker
theory.

[Max Holubitsky]

> Still waiting to hear how bad your hi-fi is, "Max".

Guess you didn't notice I already did this in another thread

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>
>
>
>>Whatever, Bruce. You're a fraud.
>
>
> Bruce always seems to be able to make it look that way.
>
>
>>I challenge you to find a single person that I have lied to about
>
> anything.
>
> Letsee Singh, who did you have that speaker cable listening test bet with,
> anyhow?



Arny, how could you call it a bet? I specifically asked you to bet on
whether or not you would leave the newsgroup permanently, and you
crawled back into the woodwork because you were afraid of the truth.
Why wouldn't you bet if it was an open and shut case?

[trotsky]

dave weil wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 06:32:03 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>>
>>>On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:06:47 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>The information there is not nearly as reliable.
>>>
>>>Just curious. Why would you care one way or another?
>>
>>I amuse myself in odd ways, such as figuring out that you live just about
>>accross the street from a bar, and generally in a pretty rough neighborhood.
>
>
> Actually I live within 30 yards of a church.


Arny can't do that because of the restraining orders.

[Bruce J. Richman]

trotsky and Krueger collaborate in sharing their unique libel and lying skills:

>Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>
>>>Whatever, Bruce. You're a fraud.
>>
>>
>> Bruce always seems to be able to make it look that way.
>>
>>
>>>I challenge you to find a single person that I have lied to about
>>
>> anything.
>>
>> Letsee Singh, who did you have that speaker cable listening test bet with,
>> anyhow?
>
>
>
>Arny, how could you call it a bet? I specifically asked you to bet on
>whether or not you would leave the newsgroup permanently, and you
>crawled back into the woodwork because you were afraid of the truth.
>Why wouldn't you bet if it was an open and shut case?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

These 2 lying sociopaths definitely deserve each other. With both of these
nutcases, RAO has been polluted for years.



Bruce J. Richman

[Arny Krueger]

"trotsky" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>>

>>> I challenge you to find a single person that I have lied to about
anything.

>> Letsee Singh, who did you have that speaker cable listening test bet
>> with, anyhow?

BTW, here's the google link for the start of the post-test thread:

http://www.google.com/groups?selm=19981026125546.01475.00001662%40ng90.a ol.c
om

> Arny, how could you call it a bet?

Singh, Google shows a strong precedent for calling it a bet. Google shows a
strong precedent for calling your failure to deliver on your promise
relating to its outcome: "Welting". The history of your cable listening test
has been written. Live with it!

Here's a Google link showing Singh's backpedaling to an offer of a
substantial cash bet related to the same event:

http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=362CFD4B.63E2DE2E%40mc.net

> I specifically asked you to bet on whether or not you would leave the
newsgroup permanently, and you
> crawled back into the woodwork because you were afraid of the truth.

Singh it looks to me like you did a little crawling of your own.

Singh, I understand how a "Submissive" like you would have a hard time with
the concept of free well and self-determination. Nevertheless, I'm not
exactly a highly submissive guy and therefore reserve the right to pick and
choose my forms of involvement with current events.

> Why wouldn't you bet if it was an open and shut case?

Well Singh, I didn't want to be disappointed when you welched on your bet. I
fully expected that you would welch on any bet you made. Thanks for not
disappointing me.

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:
>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>>> you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>>> Bob, etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> I honestly tried to suggest changes and improvements to his design,
>
>
>
> Was that before or after you admitted to being a troll, Joe?

Heh. Go back and look in the archives for my name. Too bad they
only go back to about 1993 or so.(are there any older archives out there?)

I don't toll, though I do love a good discussion.

[MiNE 109]

In article >,
"Arny Krueger" > wrote:

> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>

> > Arny, how could you call it a bet?
>
> Singh, Google shows a strong precedent for calling it a bet. Google shows a
> strong precedent for calling your failure to deliver on your promise
> relating to its outcome: "Welting"...

http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=Welting&goquery=Fi
nd+it%21&Language=ENG

verb welted, welting

2. To beat or thrash someone or something.

[George M. Middius]

Obi Wanna Beat His Head Against the Wall said:

> I don't toll, though I do love a good discussion.

If that's what you love, why do you address yourself to Krooger?

[Joseph Oberlander]

trotsky wrote:

>
>
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> trotsky wrote:
>>
>>> Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's
>>> dogs, blindly looking for an excuse not to buy. You're using R&D as
>>> a crutch, and lying about it to boot.
>>
>>
>>
>> So why don't you do R&D right,
>
>
>
> Joe, you're in quite a bind here. You have taken the path that Bob
> Morion took. I make an excellent speaker,

My question in a round about way - was:
Q:Can it be improved upon?
A:Any first generation product can be improved upon. To think otherwise
is silly.

> but because you have behaved
> like such a turd, you will never get to hear it.

I'll eventually hear it if I want. I can probably find someone near
me one of these times it is being auditioned - or someone near me who
actually bought a pair.

I'm not interested in the sound. Just the process and the business
models. Everything I know about business tels me that you are facing
an uphill battle unless you spend more time doing R&D.

Shoot, Ellis (Ellis Audio) publicly states that he will help anyone
who is making a pair of speakers design/model a cabinet for FREE.
No need to even buy the software.

How can having more options and data be a bad thing?

> My entire adult life has
> been research into what sounds good and what doesn't, and what speaker
> design principles hold water and which don't.

Unfortunately, the first part is emotion-based and the latter in your
case lacks scientific testing and methods. You can't know what
speaker "design principles" work without testing.

Why? Because without testing, you can never know how close or not
you are to the original principle that you are copying or trying
to incorporate into your design. Since last I checked, none of the
big firms are giving away their trade secrets, the best a DIY/small
firm can do is try to copy it based upon what they see as a finished
product.

In computer terms, they have the source code. You have the compiled
program. You are trying to emulate it. Unless you actually test the
programs in depth, you can't ensure 100% compatability.

[trotsky]

Bruce J. Richman wrote:
> trotsky and Krueger collaborate in sharing their unique libel and lying skills:
>
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>>"trotsky" > wrote in message

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Whatever, Bruce. You're a fraud.
>>>
>>>
>>>Bruce always seems to be able to make it look that way.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I challenge you to find a single person that I have lied to about
>>>
>>>anything.
>>>
>>>Letsee Singh, who did you have that speaker cable listening test bet with,
>>>anyhow?
>>
>>
>>
>>Arny, how could you call it a bet? I specifically asked you to bet on
>>whether or not you would leave the newsgroup permanently, and you
>>crawled back into the woodwork because you were afraid of the truth.
>>Why wouldn't you bet if it was an open and shut case?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> These 2 lying sociopaths definitely deserve each other. With both of these
> nutcases, RAO has been polluted for years.



"Nutcases?" Is that you're professional opinion? Go sit in the corner,
you're a ****ing joke.

[trotsky]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
>
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
>>>"trotsky" > wrote in message

>>
>
>>>>I challenge you to find a single person that I have lied to about
>>>
> anything.
>
>
>>>Letsee Singh, who did you have that speaker cable listening test bet
>>>with, anyhow?
>>
>
> BTW, here's the google link for the start of the post-test thread:
>
> http://www.google.com/groups?selm=19981026125546.01475.00001662%40ng90.a ol.c
> om
>
>
>>Arny, how could you call it a bet?
>
>
> Singh, Google shows a strong precedent for calling it a bet. Google shows a
> strong precedent for calling your failure to deliver on your promise
> relating to its outcome: "Welting". The history of your cable listening test
> has been written. Live with it!
>
> Here's a Google link showing Singh's backpedaling to an offer of a
> substantial cash bet related to the same event:
>
> http://www.google.com/groups?&selm=362CFD4B.63E2DE2E%40mc.net
>
>
>>I specifically asked you to bet on whether or not you would leave the
>
> newsgroup permanently, and you
>
>>crawled back into the woodwork because you were afraid of the truth.
>
>
> Singh it looks to me like you did a little crawling of your own.


So you're saying that my assessment of your behavior was accurate.
Good, I'm glad we got that cleared up.


> Singh, I understand how a "Submissive" like you would have a hard time with
> the concept of free well


Flase calim.

[MiNE 109]

In article >,
MiNE 109 > wrote:

> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
> > "trotsky" > wrote in message
> >
>
> > > Arny, how could you call it a bet?
> >
> > Singh, Google shows a strong precedent for calling it a bet. Google shows a
> > strong precedent for calling your failure to deliver on your promise
> > relating to its outcome: "Welting"...

http://tinyurl.com/qdgr

> verb welted, welting
>
> 2. To beat or thrash someone or something.

Forgot to credit Ian Dury...

Stephen

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>>
>>> dave weil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well, you *are* the instigator of *some* of them. However, I'm calling
>>>> you out as stupid for falling into a trap laid by Arnold, Mike, Joe,
>>>> Bob, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I honestly tried to suggest changes and improvements to his design,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Was that before or after you admitted to being a troll, Joe?
>
>
> Heh. Go back and look in the archives for my name. Too bad they
> only go back to about 1993 or so.(are there any older archives out there?)
>
> I don't toll,


No, the bell does.

[trotsky]

MiNE 109 wrote:
> In article >,
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote:
>
>
>>"trotsky" > wrote in message

>
>
>>>Arny, how could you call it a bet?
>>
>>Singh, Google shows a strong precedent for calling it a bet. Google shows a
>>strong precedent for calling your failure to deliver on your promise
>>relating to its outcome: "Welting"...
>
>
> http://www.allwords.com/query.php?SearchType=3&Keyword=Welting&goquery=Fi
> nd+it%21&Language=ENG
>
> verb welted, welting
>
> 2. To beat or thrash someone or something.


I certainly delivered there, if you ask me.

[trotsky]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> trotsky wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>>
>>> trotsky wrote:
>>>
>>>> Max, you need to learn a few things. Most consumers are Pavlov's
>>>> dogs, blindly looking for an excuse not to buy. You're using R&D as
>>>> a crutch, and lying about it to boot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So why don't you do R&D right,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Joe, you're in quite a bind here. You have taken the path that Bob
>> Morion took. I make an excellent speaker,
>
>
> My question in a round about way - was:
> Q:Can it be improved upon?
> A:Any first generation product can be improved upon. To think otherwise
> is silly.



Which generation are your speakers, troll?