About Dave's speaker review [Archive]

Arny Krueger

October 3rd 03, 08:08 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message

> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...

>> Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :

>> "At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>> poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."

>> Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
>> spoon... ;-)

This is a very funny and insightful comment.

> Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
> paper?

Not bringing the exercise to its logical conclusion is probably the core of
the Singh/Weil speaker promotion scheme.

Here's the probable scam: Singh and Weil keep redesigning Singh's speaker.
Weil declares that each redesign has made it sound that much better. This of
course pads Weil's ego, and it also builds up naive people's perception of
the sound quality of Singh's speaker.

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 12:53 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>
>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>> Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
>>
>> "At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>> poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
>>
>>
>> Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
>> spoon... ;-)
>>
>> Lionel
>> "Si on veut dîner avec le diable il faut une longue cuillère"
>>
>
>Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his paper?

It's over Bob. Sorry.

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 12:54 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:08:44 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"Bob Morein" > wrote in message

>
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>
>>> Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
>
>>> "At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>>> poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
>
>>> Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
>>> spoon... ;-)
>
>This is a very funny and insightful comment.
>
>> Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>> paper?
>
>Not bringing the exercise to its logical conclusion is probably the core of
>the Singh/Weil speaker promotion scheme.
>
>Here's the probable scam: Singh and Weil keep redesigning Singh's speaker.
>Weil declares that each redesign has made it sound that much better. This of
>course pads Weil's ego, and it also builds up naive people's perception of
>the sound quality of Singh's speaker.

It's over Arnold.

BTW, here's another one of thopse "making stuff up" things that you
are so "good" at.

Arny Krueger

October 3rd 03, 01:38 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 03:08:44 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>
>>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
>>
>>>> "At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>>>> poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
>>
>>>> Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very
>>>> long spoon... ;-)
>>
>> This is a very funny and insightful comment.
>>
>>> Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>>> paper?
>>
>> Not bringing the exercise to its logical conclusion is probably the
>> core of the Singh/Weil speaker promotion scheme.
>>
>> Here's the probable scam: Singh and Weil keep redesigning Singh's
>> speaker. Weil declares that each redesign has made it sound that
>> much better. This of course pads Weil's ego, and it also builds up
>> naive people's perception of the sound quality of Singh's speaker.
>
> It's over Arnold.

LOL!

> BTW, here's another one of thopse "making stuff up" things that you
> are so "good" at.

BTW Weil, is "thopse" another one of those odd words that I've never heard
of because I'm so ignorant?

LOL!

What's unclear about my qualifier "Here's the probable scam"?

If you need a translation Singh, here it is: "I made this up but I think
there's a good chance it's pretty close to the truth".

Here's how I play the truth game on RAO, Weil given that so many regulars
like Weil Middius and Singh are proven habitual liars. I make up possible
scenarios and send them up as well, possible scenarios. The louder Weil,
Middius, and Singh scream, the closer the scenario is to the real truth. The
loudest scream is when you guys start engaging in full-court-press
obfuscation. We're not there yet.

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 01:43 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:38:23 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

>If you need a translation Singh, here it is: "I made this up but I think
>there's a good chance it's pretty close to the truth".
>
>Here's how I play the truth game on RAO <snip>

Enough said.

Restated - "I made it up - that's how I play the 'truth game' here on
RAO".

The "truth game". Let's put that right next to the "debating trade" as
a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.

Bob Morein

October 3rd 03, 01:51 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
> >>
> >> "At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
> >> poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
> >>
> >>
> >> Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
> >> spoon... ;-)
> >>
> >> Lionel
> >> "Si on veut dîner avec le diable il faut une longue cuillère"
> >>
> >
> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
paper?
>
> It's over Bob. Sorry.

Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
this thread.
Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 01:59 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
>> >>
>> >> "At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>> >> poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
>> >> spoon... ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Lionel
>> >> "Si on veut dîner avec le diable il faut une longue cuillère"
>> >>
>> >
>> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>paper?
>>
>> It's over Bob. Sorry.
>
>Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
>this thread.
>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?

No I don't. Sorry.

Arny Krueger

October 3rd 03, 02:03 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:38:23 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
>
>> If you need a translation Singh, here it is: "I made this up but I
>> think there's a good chance it's pretty close to the truth".
>>
>> Here's how I play the truth game on RAO <snip>
>
> Enough said.

> Restated - "I made it up - that's how I play the 'truth game' here on
> RAO".

> The "truth game".

Weil, it's one way to describe the fun and games that are usual on RAO since
you and your corrupt associates like Middius, Graham, and Singh turned it
into the wasteland it is today.

> Let's put that right next to the "debating trade" as
> a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.

Hey Weil if you guys would start telling the truth and stopped attacking
people over nothing, there would be no need to resort to games.

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 02:12 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:03:02 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:38:23 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
>>
>>> If you need a translation Singh, here it is: "I made this up but I
>>> think there's a good chance it's pretty close to the truth".
>>>
>>> Here's how I play the truth game on RAO <snip>
>>
>> Enough said.
>
>> Restated - "I made it up - that's how I play the 'truth game' here on
>> RAO".
>
>> The "truth game".
>
>Weil, it's one way to describe the fun and games that are usual on RAO since
>you and your corrupt associates like Middius, Graham, and Singh turned it
>into the wasteland it is today.
>
>> Let's put that right next to the "debating trade" as
>> a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.
>
>Hey Weil if you guys would start telling the truth and stopped attacking
>people over nothing, there would be no need to resort to games.

Thank you for admitting that your dumping on RAO is simply a game.

Lionel

October 3rd 03, 02:16 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>>Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
>>>>>
>>>>>"At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>>>>>poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
>>>>>spoon... ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>"Si on veut dîner avec le diable il faut une longue cuillère"
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>>
>>paper?
>>
>>>It's over Bob. Sorry.
>>
>>Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
>>this thread.
>>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>
>
> No I don't. Sorry.

I'm agree with you Dave you haven't to do that.
But you don't need either to be sorry.
Why to be sorry ?
Mr. Gred Singh is insane. In few months Jupiter-Audio will have disappeared.
Today you know that you can easily manufacture for yourself satisfying
speakers for few money. This should be our today lesson concerning
Trotsky's speakers.

Arny Krueger

October 3rd 03, 02:20 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:03:02 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:38:23 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you need a translation Singh, here it is: "I made this up but I
>>>> think there's a good chance it's pretty close to the truth".
>>>>
>>>> Here's how I play the truth game on RAO <snip>
>>>
>>> Enough said.
>>
>>> Restated - "I made it up - that's how I play the 'truth game' here
>>> on RAO".
>>
>>> The "truth game".
>>
>> Weil, it's one way to describe the fun and games that are usual on
>> RAO since you and your corrupt associates like Middius, Graham, and
>> Singh turned it into the wasteland it is today.
>>
>>> Let's put that right next to the "debating trade" as
>>> a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.
>>
>> Hey Weil if you guys would start telling the truth and stopped
>> attacking people over nothing, there would be no need to resort to
>> games.
>
> Thank you for admitting that your dumping on RAO is simply a game.

Weil, I need to hear another laughable lie this morning. Please tell us that
you take RAO seriously.

George M. Middius

October 3rd 03, 02:28 PM

dave weil said:

> The "truth game". Let's put that right next to the "debating trade" as
> a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.

His "craft"? I've never heard that euphemism before. But given his
various fetishes about "science" and human waste, it does make a
certain amount of sense for him to look at it as a craft.

Lionel

October 3rd 03, 03:26 PM

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> dave weil said:
>
>
>>The "truth game". Let's put that right next to the "debating trade" as
>>a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.
>
>
> His "craft"? I've never heard that euphemism before. But given his
> various fetishes about "science" and human waste, it does make a
> certain amount of sense for him to look at it as a craft.
>
>

Tell us about your craft Middius, oh yes please tell us.
I'm sure it would allow me to make "good" Bitch-Lionella's jokes. ;-)

Bob Morein

October 3rd 03, 03:39 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
[snip]
> >> >
> >> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
> >paper?
> >>
> >> It's over Bob. Sorry.
> >
> >Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
> >this thread.
> >Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>
> No I don't. Sorry.

I appreciate the consideration you are giving for Trotsky's feelings and his
financial future.
It's really touching.

God Bless!

Bob Morein

October 3rd 03, 03:41 PM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> dave weil wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>
> >>>>>Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
> >>>>>poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
> >>>>>spoon... ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Lionel
> >>>>>"Si on veut dîner avec le diable il faut une longue cuillère"
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
> >>
> >>paper?
> >>
> >>>It's over Bob. Sorry.
> >>
> >>Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
> >>this thread.
> >>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
> >
> >
> > No I don't. Sorry.
>
> I'm agree with you Dave you haven't to do that.
> But you don't need either to be sorry.
> Why to be sorry ?
> Mr. Gred Singh is insane. In few months Jupiter-Audio will have
disappeared.
> Today you know that you can easily manufacture for yourself satisfying
> speakers for few money. This should be our today lesson concerning
> Trotsky's speakers.
>
Dave can't bring himself to say what has to be said -- to sing the praises
of Singh's speakers.

What a shame that Singh's hidden jewels must remain between his legs,
undescended.

Arny Krueger

October 3rd 03, 03:54 PM

"Lionel" > wrote in message

> George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>> dave weil said:
>>
>>
>>> The "truth game". Let's put that right next to the "debating trade"
>>> as a new proprietary technique that Arnold uses to ply his craft.
>>
>>
>> His "craft"? I've never heard that euphemism before. But given his
>> various fetishes about "science" and human waste, it does make a
>> certain amount of sense for him to look at it as a craft.

> Tell us about your craft Middius, oh yes please tell us.

Indeed. I'm unsure that Middius has ever honestly revealed his training,
work history or current employment.

> I'm sure it would allow me to make "good" Bitch-Lionella's jokes. ;-)

I'm sure the truth about these issues would be highly embarrassing to
Middius. No different than just about any other truth about Middius, AFAIK.

Arny Krueger

October 3rd 03, 03:56 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message

> "dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> wrote:
>>
> [snip]

>>>>> Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in
>>>>> his paper?

>>>> It's over Bob. Sorry.

What's over, the love affair between Weil and Singh?

;-)

Inquiring minds want to know!

>>> Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear
>>> elsewhere in this thread.

>>> Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?

>> No I don't. Sorry.

Now that should raise a lot of questions.

> I appreciate the consideration you are giving for Trotsky's feelings
> and his financial future.
> It's really touching.
>
> God Bless!

Good one, Morein!

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 04:10 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:39:25 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> wrote:
>>
>[snip]
>> >> >
>> >> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>> >paper?
>> >>
>> >> It's over Bob. Sorry.
>> >
>> >Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
>> >this thread.
>> >Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>>
>> No I don't. Sorry.
>
>I appreciate the consideration you are giving for Trotsky's feelings and his
>financial future.
>It's really touching.
>
>God Bless!

Sorry you have the need to ascribe motives that aren't there.

Now maybe you can give up your McCarty-like obsession with Mr. Singh.

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 04:12 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>
>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>> dave weil wrote:
>>
>> > On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>"dave weil" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 02:50:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> >>>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Lev Davidovich Bronshtein wrote :
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>"At no point did I expect you to pose as an audio reviewer, waxing
>> >>>>>poetic about "bloom in the midrange" or crap like that."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Dave, if you want to have a diner with the devil you need a very long
>> >>>>>spoon... ;-)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>Lionel
>> >>>>>"Si on veut dîner avec le diable il faut une longue cuillère"
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>> >>
>> >>paper?
>> >>
>> >>>It's over Bob. Sorry.
>> >>
>> >>Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere in
>> >>this thread.
>> >>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>> >
>> >
>> > No I don't. Sorry.
>>
>> I'm agree with you Dave you haven't to do that.
>> But you don't need either to be sorry.
>> Why to be sorry ?
>> Mr. Gred Singh is insane. In few months Jupiter-Audio will have
>disappeared.
>> Today you know that you can easily manufacture for yourself satisfying
>> speakers for few money. This should be our today lesson concerning
>> Trotsky's speakers.
>>
>Dave can't bring himself to say what has to be said -- to sing the praises
>of Singh's speakers.

No, you're actually wrong about the statement. I'll let you guess as
to which part, any or all, is incorrect. You should be able to come up
with some convenient fiction, right?

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 04:15 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>>>> Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>
>>> No I don't. Sorry.
>
>Now that should raise a lot of questions.

It shouldn't. The review process was terminated early. Therefore, the
prudent thing to do is to reserve final comment. OTOH, I have some
definite conclusions that I've drawn about the speakers based on the
hours that i have spent listening to them.

But I won't be sharing them with the likes of you.

Michael Mckelvy

October 3rd 03, 04:45 PM

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 04:49 PM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:45:55 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
> wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:39:25 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"dave weil" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >[snip]
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
>> >> >paper?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's over Bob. Sorry.
>> >> >
>> >> >Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere
>in
>> >> >this thread.
>> >> >Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>> >>
>> >> No I don't. Sorry.
>> >
>> >I appreciate the consideration you are giving for Trotsky's feelings and
>his
>> >financial future.
>> >It's really touching.
>> >
>> >God Bless!
>>
>> Sorry you have the need to ascribe motives that aren't there.
>>
>
>Something you do all the time.

Prove it.

>> Now maybe you can give up your McCarty-like obsession with Mr. Singh.
>
>Like yours for Arny?

No, like yours for me.

Give it up Mike, I'm far too unimportant to a guy with an unknown
occupation like you.

Lionel

October 3rd 03, 06:03 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>>
>>>>No I don't. Sorry.
>>
>>Now that should raise a lot of questions.
>
>
> It shouldn't. The review process was terminated early. Therefore, the
> prudent thing to do is to reserve final comment. OTOH, I have some
> definite conclusions that I've drawn about the speakers based on the
> hours that i have spent listening to them.
>
> But I won't be sharing them with the likes of you.

Your attitude is totally *unfair* here.
Trotsky has *humiliated* you on RAO and you seem to pretend that Bob and
me are responsible of your deception.
Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that we have been the only
*honest* persons of your *pitiful* story ?

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 06:29 PM

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:03:33 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>>>
>>>>>No I don't. Sorry.
>>>
>>>Now that should raise a lot of questions.
>>
>>
>> It shouldn't. The review process was terminated early. Therefore, the
>> prudent thing to do is to reserve final comment. OTOH, I have some
>> definite conclusions that I've drawn about the speakers based on the
>> hours that i have spent listening to them.
>>
>> But I won't be sharing them with the likes of you.
>
>
>Your attitude is totally *unfair* here.

I don't know why.

>Trotsky has *humiliated* you on RAO and you seem to pretend that Bob and
>me are responsible of your deception.

No, he didn't "humiliate" me. Sorry. And there's no "deception". Greg
sent me speakers - I started an evaluation of them. Greg didn't want
to wait for the evaluation to come full-circle so I stopped the
evaluation. It's all out in the open.

I'm honored that you and Bob think so highly ofme that you want to
know my opinion though. I appreciate it.

>Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that we have been the only
>*honest* persons of your *pitiful* story ?

Yes, because it wouldn't be true.

Lionel

October 3rd 03, 08:14 PM

dave weil wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:03:33 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>>>>
>>>>>>No I don't. Sorry.
>>>>
>>>>Now that should raise a lot of questions.
>>>
>>>
>>>It shouldn't. The review process was terminated early. Therefore, the
>>>prudent thing to do is to reserve final comment. OTOH, I have some
>>>definite conclusions that I've drawn about the speakers based on the
>>>hours that i have spent listening to them.
>>>
>>>But I won't be sharing them with the likes of you.
>>
>>
>>Your attitude is totally *unfair* here.
>
>
> I don't know why.
>
>
>>Trotsky has *humiliated* you on RAO and you seem to pretend that Bob and
>>me are responsible of your deception.
>
>
> No, he didn't "humiliate" me. Sorry. And there's no "deception". Greg
> sent me speakers - I started an evaluation of them. Greg didn't want
> to wait for the evaluation to come full-circle so I stopped the
> evaluation. It's all out in the open.
>
> I'm honored that you and Bob think so highly ofme that you want to
> know my opinion though. I appreciate it.
>
>
>>Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that we have been the only
>>*honest* persons of your *pitiful* story ?
>
>
> Yes, because it wouldn't be true.

Dave, I begin to think that you are a moron.
Did I interfere in your comments concerning Singh's speaker ?
Did I have any comment before yesterday same hour.
You are the only reponsible of your today deception, you pay the price
for this foolish game. In a way trotsky **** you Dave, agree or not
agree Trotsky **** you.

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 08:25 PM

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:14:29 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:03:33 +0200, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>>>>>
>>>>>>>No I don't. Sorry.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now that should raise a lot of questions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>It shouldn't. The review process was terminated early. Therefore, the
>>>>prudent thing to do is to reserve final comment. OTOH, I have some
>>>>definite conclusions that I've drawn about the speakers based on the
>>>>hours that i have spent listening to them.
>>>>
>>>>But I won't be sharing them with the likes of you.
>>>
>>>
>>>Your attitude is totally *unfair* here.
>>
>>
>> I don't know why.
>>
>>
>>>Trotsky has *humiliated* you on RAO and you seem to pretend that Bob and
>>>me are responsible of your deception.
>>
>>
>> No, he didn't "humiliate" me. Sorry. And there's no "deception". Greg
>> sent me speakers - I started an evaluation of them. Greg didn't want
>> to wait for the evaluation to come full-circle so I stopped the
>> evaluation. It's all out in the open.
>>
>> I'm honored that you and Bob think so highly ofme that you want to
>> know my opinion though. I appreciate it.
>>
>>
>>>Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that we have been the only
>>>*honest* persons of your *pitiful* story ?
>>
>>
>> Yes, because it wouldn't be true.
>
>
>Dave, I begin to think that you are a moron.
>Did I interfere in your comments concerning Singh's speaker ?
>Did I have any comment before yesterday same hour.
>You are the only reponsible of your today deception, you pay the price
>for this foolish game. In a way trotsky **** you Dave, agree or not
>agree Trotsky **** you.

Frankly, I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps it's your
poor grasp of the English language.

How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?

Lionel

October 3rd 03, 08:36 PM

dave weil wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:14:29 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:03:33 +0200, Lionel >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:56:24 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No I don't. Sorry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now that should raise a lot of questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It shouldn't. The review process was terminated early. Therefore, the
>>>>>prudent thing to do is to reserve final comment. OTOH, I have some
>>>>>definite conclusions that I've drawn about the speakers based on the
>>>>>hours that i have spent listening to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>But I won't be sharing them with the likes of you.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your attitude is totally *unfair* here.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't know why.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Trotsky has *humiliated* you on RAO and you seem to pretend that Bob and
>>>>me are responsible of your deception.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, he didn't "humiliate" me. Sorry. And there's no "deception". Greg
>>>sent me speakers - I started an evaluation of them. Greg didn't want
>>>to wait for the evaluation to come full-circle so I stopped the
>>>evaluation. It's all out in the open.
>>>
>>>I'm honored that you and Bob think so highly ofme that you want to
>>>know my opinion though. I appreciate it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Is it too difficult for you to acknowledge that we have been the only
>>>>*honest* persons of your *pitiful* story ?
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, because it wouldn't be true.
>>
>>
>>Dave, I begin to think that you are a moron.
>>Did I interfere in your comments concerning Singh's speaker ?
>>Did I have any comment before yesterday same hour.
>>You are the only reponsible of your today deception, you pay the price
>>for this foolish game. In a way trotsky **** you Dave, agree or not
>>agree Trotsky **** you.
>
>
> Frankly, I don't know what you're talking about. Perhaps it's your
> poor grasp of the English language.
>
> How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?

Loser !

dave weil

October 3rd 03, 08:38 PM

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:36:52 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>> How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?
>
>Loser !

Yep - there you go. Loser and moron in consecutive posts.

Tell me you aren't a "neutral" observer now.

You're dismissed now.

Lionel

October 3rd 03, 08:50 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:36:52 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>>How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?
>>
>>Loser !
>
>
> Yep - there you go. Loser and moron in consecutive posts.
>
> Tell me you aren't a "neutral" observer now.
>
> You're dismissed now.

Dave, you haven't anymore fluency today. You are attempting an
improbable trip through time...
I am dismissed now ?
After all, why not ? If it can be helpful. I have nothing to lose.

Marc Phillips

October 4th 03, 12:14 AM

Lionel said:

>In a way trotsky **** you Dave, agree or not
>agree Trotsky **** you.

The comparisons, Bob, to Moliere, not to mention Noel Coward, are amazingly
obvious, dontcha think?

Boon

Marc Phillips

October 4th 03, 12:16 AM

dave said:

>On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:36:52 +0200, Lionel >
>wrote:
>
>>> How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?
>>
>>Loser !
>
>Yep - there you go. Loser and moron in consecutive posts.
>
>Tell me you aren't a "neutral" observer now.
>
>You're dismissed now.

Wait, dave, I took it to mean that Lionel called himself a loser and a moron
since he basically lost the argument by failing to come up with a rebuttal.
That's how it seems in English, anyway.

Boon

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 01:07 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
[snip]
> >Dave can't bring himself to say what has to be said -- to sing the
praises
> >of Singh's speakers.
>
> No, you're actually wrong about the statement. I'll let you guess as
> to which part, any or all, is incorrect. You should be able to come up
> with some convenient fiction, right?
>
I'm just needling you.
However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your evaluation
would be private.
You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement would be
forthcoming.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 01:37 AM

Bobo gets preposterously indignant.

> However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your evaluation
> would be private.
> You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement would be
> forthcoming.

I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child. When
it turned out the sweathog only wanted a jumping-off point for
another cycle of irrational screaming and pointless argumentation,
I think dave made the wise choice by walking away.

BTW, isn't it time to say something about your comment that Lionella
la Salope is "witty"?

Marc Phillips

October 4th 03, 02:34 AM

Mr. Middius said:

>Bobo gets preposterously indignant.
>
>> However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your evaluation
>> would be private.
>> You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement would be
>> forthcoming.
>
>I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
>a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child. When
>it turned out the sweathog only wanted a jumping-off point for
>another cycle of irrational screaming and pointless argumentation,
>I think dave made the wise choice by walking away.
>
>BTW, isn't it time to say something about your comment that Lionella
>la Salope is "witty"?

I just read Bob's "Trotsky Report" message, which pretty much clarifies his
idea of wit.

Boon

Michael Mckelvy

October 4th 03, 02:58 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:45:55 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >"dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:39:25 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"dave weil" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein"
>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >[snip]
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in
his
> >> >> >paper?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> It's over Bob. Sorry.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear
elsewhere
> >in
> >> >> >this thread.
> >> >> >Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
> >> >>
> >> >> No I don't. Sorry.
> >> >
> >> >I appreciate the consideration you are giving for Trotsky's feelings
and
> >his
> >> >financial future.
> >> >It's really touching.
> >> >
> >> >God Bless!
> >>
> >> Sorry you have the need to ascribe motives that aren't there.
> >>
> >
> >Something you do all the time.
>
> Prove it.
>
Been there done that. How many times did you claim I said it was
unneccessary to listen to Trots speakers? I never said it but you kept
insisting I did.

> >> Now maybe you can give up your McCarty-like obsession with Mr. Singh.
> >
> >Like yours for Arny?
>
> No, like yours for me.
>
> Give it up Mike, I'm far too unimportant to a guy with an unknown
> occupation like you.

One's occupation is not germaine to one's ability to tell the truth. I have
no obseesion regarding you. You seem to have one regarding anyone who
disagrees with you or with anyone who thinks that Arny isn't evil incarnate.

Singh brought on all his own problems by flaming nearly everybody who voiced
an opinion he didn't like and by demonstrating that he is without integrity
by welching on a bet.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 03:04 AM

Marc Phillips said:

> >BTW, isn't it time to say something about your comment that Lionella
> >la Salope is "witty"?
>
> I just read Bob's "Trotsky Report" message, which pretty much clarifies his
> idea of wit.

I thought Bobo had had a hard day and was winding down with a hit of
acid.

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 03:18 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Marc Phillips said:
>
> > >BTW, isn't it time to say something about your comment that Lionella
> > >la Salope is "witty"?
> >
> > I just read Bob's "Trotsky Report" message, which pretty much clarifies
his
> > idea of wit.
>
> I thought Bobo had had a hard day and was winding down with a hit of
> acid.
>
Einstein used to read the paper to get riled up enough to work.

I did think, just for a moment, that an elegant quotation, delivered in
French, with quotation marks, would have served better than the finest
offering of English.

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 03:27 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:39:25 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:51:26 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >[snip]
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Isn't it about time for Dave to put his pencil down and hand in his
> >> >paper?
> >> >>
> >> >> It's over Bob. Sorry.
> >> >
> >> >Dave, I'm not making any insulting accusations that appear elsewhere
in
> >> >this thread.
> >> >Do you plan to release to the group a summary of your observations?
> >>
> >> No I don't. Sorry.
> >
> >I appreciate the consideration you are giving for Trotsky's feelings and
his
> >financial future.
> >It's really touching.
> >
> >God Bless!
>
> Sorry you have the need to ascribe motives that aren't there.
>
> Now maybe you can give up your McCarty-like obsession with Mr. Singh.

It's not quite McCarty-like. McCarty isn't fun. He's just a needle stuck in
a groove.
The subject of Greg Singh still provides amusement. In fact, the whole thing
was a gas, although it might have been nicer if this newsgroup had gestated
something with positive value.

But you have a point, so I'll restate something. Although I leapt on the
opportunity to humiliate Greg, I would not do it again without cause. If the
facts of the speakers and how they were made and how they sound were one of
positive achievement, I would not be singing this tune.

But you have defaulted, because you prefer picking your cuticles to
confronting the truth.
The entire group has waited for your report, and you've welched, for reasons
not quite clear to me.
It would be no great surprise and it would provoke no great reaction if you
said the speakers have faults.
And by clarifying this for Singh, you might actually cause him to do some
creative thinking that would get him out of his predicament.

It is not inconceivable that Greg would be a competent front man, provided
other people do the work. The world is full of successful assholes, and Greg
should have the opportunity to join them.

Marc Phillips

October 4th 03, 03:52 AM

Bob Morein said:

>I did think, just for a moment, that an elegant quotation, delivered in
>French, with quotation marks, would have served better than the finest
>offering of English.
>

So you're one of those arrogant assholes who likes to sprinkle your prose with
foreign words and sayings in order to sound more intelligent?

Boon

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 05:40 AM

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Morein said:
>
> >I did think, just for a moment, that an elegant quotation, delivered in
> >French, with quotation marks, would have served better than the finest
> >offering of English.
> >
>
> So you're one of those arrogant assholes who likes to sprinkle your prose
with
> foreign words and sayings in order to sound more intelligent?
>
> Boon
>
No, my prose style is more Hemingway or Steinbeck minimalist.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 05:52 AM

Bobo said:

> > So you're one of those arrogant assholes who likes to sprinkle your prose with
> > foreign words and sayings in order to sound more intelligent?

> No, my prose style is more Hemingway or Steinbeck minimalist.

Either that or Bozo the Clown. On crack.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 05:59 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

>
> Here's how I play the truth game on RAO, Weil given that so many regulars
> like Weil Middius and Singh are proven habitual liars. I make up possible
> scenarios and send them up as well, possible scenarios. The louder Weil,
> Middius, and Singh scream, the closer the scenario is to the real truth.
The
> loudest scream is when you guys start engaging in full-court-press
> obfuscation. We're not there yet.
>
>

You play the 'truth game' by making up presumptive lies. Good One!

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 06:01 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Weil, I need to hear another laughable lie this morning. Please tell us
that
> you take RAO seriously.
>
>

another 'Good One" from RAO's 'top poster'.

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dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:02 AM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:07:34 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> wrote:
>[snip]
>> >Dave can't bring himself to say what has to be said -- to sing the
>praises
>> >of Singh's speakers.
>>
>> No, you're actually wrong about the statement. I'll let you guess as
>> to which part, any or all, is incorrect. You should be able to come up
>> with some convenient fiction, right?
>>
>I'm just needling you.
>However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your evaluation
>would be private.
>You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement would be
>forthcoming.

I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
evaluation has been terminated prematurely.

I don't have to suffer backbiting in the middle of an evaluation.

Sorry this doesn't make you happy, but that's the way it is. This was
a voluntary test, not a mandatory one. I don't need to waste my time
on things that are counterproductive.

If you want to evaluate the speakers, I suggest that you buy them from
Greg. You'll have 45 days to return them.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 06:02 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Good one, Morein!
>

And oh so 'Christain', to boot.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 06:05 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>

>. The world is full of successful assholes, and Greg
> should have the opportunity to join them.
>

However, the unsuccessful assholes of the world gravitate to Philadelphia.

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dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:09 AM

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:27:58 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>It would be no great surprise and it would provoke no great reaction if you
>said the speakers have faults.

You obviously haven't been paying attention.

why should I bother giving you *anything* at this point?

I'm sorry that you're crushed that I terminated the evaluation early.
Take it up with Greg, not me. I'm nobody's indentured servant, least
of all yours.

You have the opportunity to do your own evaluation. Get to it.

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 06:54 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:07:34 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> >> wrote:
> >[snip]
> >> >Dave can't bring himself to say what has to be said -- to sing the
> >praises
> >> >of Singh's speakers.
> >>
> >> No, you're actually wrong about the statement. I'll let you guess as
> >> to which part, any or all, is incorrect. You should be able to come up
> >> with some convenient fiction, right?
> >>
> >I'm just needling you.
> >However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your
evaluation
> >would be private.
> >You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement would be
> >forthcoming.
>
> I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
> private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
> evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
>
What terminated the evaluation?
Did Greg request the speakers back?
Do you feel that is a privileged communication, considering that the whole
affair of your hopefully impartial evaluation has been one of the most
ballyhooed events on r.a.o. ?

It appears to me that you are inadvertently making it look like what it
almost certainly is not -- the exercise of undue pressure on you to hold
your tongue and return the speakers.

Look, you agreed to do something in the public eye. A couple thousand people
know you got the speakers and listened to them.
Then, without explanation, you return them, once again in the public eye.

Buck up, buddy boy. Whether you like it or not, you are a public personality
in connection with Greg's speakers. You're giving the whole thing the
appearance of scandal.

> I don't have to suffer backbiting in the middle of an evaluation.
>
You put yourself up to it.
There was an implied promise that you would replace uniformed speculation
with considered opinion. We waited patiently.

And then you give us a load of bull****. That's what your silence is. Pure
BULL****.

> Sorry this doesn't make you happy, but that's the way it is. This was
> a voluntary test, not a mandatory one. I don't need to waste my time
> on things that are counterproductive.

It's true that I'm annoyed, but it makes you look ridiculous. You were
entrusted with a responsibility, and you welched.
>
> If you want to evaluate the speakers, I suggest that you buy them from
> Greg. You'll have 45 days to return them.

You got the sample for nothing. Greg has already indicated he won't sell me
a set anyway.
If he wants to send me a review sample, or get them to a dealer in
Manhattan, I'll be glad to have a listen.
And I'll tell people what I hear.

In closing, your silence is the worst, absolute WORST possible thing that
could happen to Greg Singh. It makes him look like an occult, devious
manipulator.

Which may be what he is.

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 07:37 AM

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > Good one, Morein!
> >
>
>
> And oh so 'Christain', to boot.
>
God Bless, Sockpuppet.
May you and your child socks have many blessings.

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 07:42 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:27:58 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >It would be no great surprise and it would provoke no great reaction if
you
> >said the speakers have faults.
>
> You obviously haven't been paying attention.
>
> why should I bother giving you *anything* at this point?
>
Maybe you *shouldn't*, since you feel so *aggrieved* over the injury to your
sensitive *feelings*.

> I'm sorry that you're crushed that I terminated the evaluation early.
> Take it up with Greg, not me. I'm nobody's indentured servant, least
> of all yours.
>
> You have the opportunity to do your own evaluation. Get to it.

Here we go:
We are currently soliciting -- make that panhandling -- for $1300, for
the benefit of Greg Singh. The donation will be used by Greg to take
motivational courses entitled
"Improving Your Intuition; Guess Perfect Every Time", tuition $650
and
"How to Win Friends and Influence People; a Primer for Assholes". Don't miss
this famous course inspired by Dale Carnegie. Tuition $650.

In return, Greg must send me a pair of his speakers, which I will listen to,
and recount the experience thereof in detail, here on rec.audio.opinion.

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 07:43 AM

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
>
> >. The world is full of successful assholes, and Greg
> > should have the opportunity to join them.
> >
>
> However, the unsuccessful assholes of the world gravitate to Philadelphia.
>
The miracle of the Internet allows assholes to congregate anywhere they
choose, without actually moving their asses.

Lionel

October 4th 03, 08:40 AM

Marc Phillips wrote:

> Lionel said:
>
>
>>In a way trotsky **** you Dave, agree or not
>>agree Trotsky **** you.
>
>
> The comparisons, Bob, to Moliere, not to mention Noel Coward, are amazingly
> obvious, dontcha think?
>
> Boon
>
>
;-)

Lionel

October 4th 03, 08:40 AM

Marc Phillips wrote:

> dave said:
>
>
>>On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:36:52 +0200, Lionel >
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?
>>>
>>>Loser !
>>
>>Yep - there you go. Loser and moron in consecutive posts.
>>
>>Tell me you aren't a "neutral" observer now.
>>
>>You're dismissed now.
>
>
> Wait, dave, I took it to mean that Lionel called himself a loser and a moron
> since he basically lost the argument by failing to come up with a rebuttal.
> That's how it seems in English, anyway.
>
> Boon
>
>
;-) -- ;-)

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 10:27 AM

Bobo wakes up from his nap.

> > I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
> > private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
> > evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
> >
> What terminated the evaluation?

Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
the evaluation?

Arny Krueger

October 4th 03, 10:55 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message

> "dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...

>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:07:34 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
>> wrote:

>>> "dave weil" > wrote in message
>>> ...

>>>> On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 10:41:43 -0400, "Bob Morein"
>>>> > wrote:
>>> [snip]

>>>>> Dave can't bring himself to say what has to be said -- to sing
>>>>> the praises of Singh's speakers.

>>>> No, you're actually wrong about the statement. I'll let you guess
>>>> as to which part, any or all, is incorrect. You should be able to
>>>> come up with some convenient fiction, right?

I can't believe that so many people are sitting silently through such
egregious dissembling and waffling by Weil.

>>> I'm just needling you.
>>> However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your
evaluation
>>> would be private.

>>> You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement
>>> would be forthcoming.

>> I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
>> private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
>> evaluation has been terminated prematurely.

> What terminated the evaluation?

> Did Greg request the speakers back?

> Do you feel that is a privileged communication, considering that the
> whole affair of your hopefully impartial evaluation has been one of
> the most ballyhooed events on r.a.o. ?

Certainly one of the weirdest.

> It appears to me that you are inadvertently making it look like what
> it almost certainly is not -- the exercise of undue pressure on you
> to hold your tongue and return the speakers.

Possibly Singh wised up when I blew the whistle on their scam yesterday.

> Look, you agreed to do something in the public eye. A couple thousand
> people know you got the speakers and listened to them.
> Then, without explanation, you return them, once again in the public
> eye.

If the speakers ever existed, and/or were actually shipped to Weil.

> Buck up, buddy boy. Whether you like it or not, you are a public
> personality in connection with Greg's speakers. You're giving the
> whole thing the appearance of scandal.

Considering the cast of characters... The pairing of Weil and Singh gives
new meaning to the phrase "Odd Couple".

>> I don't have to suffer backbiting in the middle of an evaluation.

Did anybody seriously expect anything else?

> You put yourself up to it.
> There was an implied promise that you would replace uniformed
> speculation with considered opinion. We waited patiently.

Well, the flaming optimists waited...

> And then you give us a load of bull****. That's what your silence is.
> Pure BULL****.

Hey this is Weil who is supposed to be speaking. Did anybody seriously
expect anything but non-performance?

>> Sorry this doesn't make you happy, but that's the way it is. This was
>> a voluntary test, not a mandatory one. I don't need to waste my time
>> on things that are counterproductive.

Weil should have figured that out weeks ago.

> It's true that I'm annoyed, but it makes you look ridiculous. You were
> entrusted with a responsibility, and you welched.

Interesting how that word "welched" seems to follow Singh around. This time
he appears to be a co-conspirator, and not the sole perpetrator.

>> If you want to evaluate the speakers, I suggest that you buy them
>> from Greg. You'll have 45 days to return them.

That would require a number of things not now evident.

> You got the sample for nothing. Greg has already indicated he won't
> sell me a set anyway.

Wow!

> If he wants to send me a review sample, or get them to a dealer in
> Manhattan, I'll be glad to have a listen.
> And I'll tell people what I hear.

Things could get very interesting...

> In closing, your silence is the worst, absolute WORST possible thing
> that could happen to Greg Singh. It makes him look like an occult,
> devious manipulator.

Why would he change?

> Which may be what he is.

What's this "may" crap?

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 11:07 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Bobo wakes up from his nap.
>
> > > I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
> > > private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
> > > evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
> > >
> > What terminated the evaluation?
>
> Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
> the evaluation?
>
I don't know.
Please tell me why.

Arny Krueger

October 4th 03, 11:46 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Bobo wakes up from his nap.
> >
> > > > I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been
entirely
> > > > private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
> > > > evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
> > > >
> > > What terminated the evaluation?
> >
> > Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
> > the evaluation?
> >
> I don't know.
> Please tell me why.

Silly boy - expecting a straight answer from Middius?

What were you thinking!

Arny Krueger

October 4th 03, 11:46 AM

Arny Krueger

October 4th 03, 11:47 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...

> In return, Greg must send me a pair of his speakers, which I will listen
to,
> and recount the experience thereof in detail, here on rec.audio.opinion.

You're a brave man Morein, risking ear damage like that!

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 12:17 PM

Bobo, are you sleepwalking?

> > > What terminated the evaluation?

> > Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
> > the evaluation?

> I don't know.
> Please tell me why.

That's what I get for asking a rhetorical question. I suppose you
two don't know because of drug problems.

Or are you asking why dave ended the evaluation? If that's your
question, dave answered it at length, and then I answered it in a
short post of a couple sentences.

Fire up that bong, dude!

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:33 PM

Marc Phillips wrote:

> dave said:
>
>
> >On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 21:36:52 +0200, Lionel
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>How are you an "honest person of my pitiful story"?
> >>
> >>Loser !
> >
> >Yep - there you go. Loser and moron in consecutive posts.
> >
> >Tell me you aren't a "neutral" observer now.
> >
> >You're dismissed now.
>
>
> Wait, dave, I took it to mean that Lionel called himself a loser and a
> moron
> since he basically lost the argument by failing to come up with a
> rebuttal.
> That's how it seems in English, anyway.

I can't believe you guys give a sockpuppet the time of day. Different
strokes, I guess.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:38 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Bobo gets preposterously indignant.
>
>
> >However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your
> evaluation
> >would be private.
> >You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement would be
> >forthcoming.
>
>
> I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.

Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
his I'm a *******. I don't get people like you, George--you have
obvious intelligence in a book-smart kind of way, but when it comes to
interpreting the actions of others you get (are?) a zero. Sorry, that's
just the way it is.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:41 PM

Marc Phillips wrote:

> Mr. Middius said:
>
>
> >Bobo gets preposterously indignant.
> >
> >
> >>However, you should have indicated from the beginning that your
> evaluation
> >>would be private.
> >>You have betrayed our trust, by implying that a public statement
> would be
> >>forthcoming.
> >
> >I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> >a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child. When
> >it turned out the sweathog only wanted a jumping-off point for
> >another cycle of irrational screaming and pointless argumentation,
> >I think dave made the wise choice by walking away.
> >
> >BTW, isn't it time to say something about your comment that Lionella
> >la Salope is "witty"?
>
>
> I just read Bob's "Trotsky Report" message, which pretty much
> clarifies his
> idea of wit.

My sentiments exactly. However, if you need to fertilize a field, he's
your guy.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:43 PM

Michael Mckelvy wrote:

>
>
> Singh brought on all his own problems by flaming nearly everybody who
> voiced
> an opinion he didn't like and by demonstrating that he is without
> integrity
> by welching on a bet.

That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
respond to my post calling for his leaving the group all six times I
posted it? Take as much time as you need, hypocrite.

>
>
>

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:45 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

>
>
> It is not inconceivable that Greg would be a competent front man, provided
> other people do the work. The world is full of successful assholes,
> and Greg
> should have the opportunity to join them.
>
>
>

Bob, are you *ever* going to stop trying to rationalize your own
personal failings in life?

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:46 PM

Marc Phillips wrote:

> Bob Morein said:
>
>
> >I did think, just for a moment, that an elegant quotation, delivered in
> >French, with quotation marks, would have served better than the finest
> >offering of English.
> >
>
>
> So you're one of those arrogant assholes who likes to sprinkle your
> prose with
> foreign words and sayings in order to sound more intelligent?

It isn't working. Then again, I think those three words come up a lot
when reading Bob's writings.

>
>
>

trotsky

October 4th 03, 01:52 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "Marc Phillips" wrote in message
> ...
>
> >Bob Morein said:
> >
> >
> >>I did think, just for a moment, that an elegant quotation, delivered in
> >>French, with quotation marks, would have served better than the finest
> >>offering of English.
> >>
> >
> >So you're one of those arrogant assholes who likes to sprinkle your prose
>
> with
>
> >foreign words and sayings in order to sound more intelligent?
> >
> >Boon
> >
>
> No, my prose style is more Hemingway or Steinbeck minimalist.
>

Or Steinbeck with a broken typewriter.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 02:00 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "dave weil" wrote in message
> ...
>
> >On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 22:27:58 -0400, "Bob Morein"
> >wrote:
> >
> >
> >>It would be no great surprise and it would provoke no great reaction if
>
> you
>
> >>said the speakers have faults.
> >
> >You obviously haven't been paying attention.
> >
> >why should I bother giving you *anything* at this point?
> >
>
> Maybe you *shouldn't*, since you feel so *aggrieved* over the injury
> to your
> sensitive *feelings*.
>
>
>
> >I'm sorry that you're crushed that I terminated the evaluation early.
> >Take it up with Greg, not me. I'm nobody's indentured servant, least
> >of all yours.
> >
> >You have the opportunity to do your own evaluation. Get to it.
>
>
> Here we go:
> We are currently soliciting -- make that panhandling -- for $1300, for
> the benefit of Greg Singh. The donation will be used by Greg to take
> motivational courses entitled
> "Improving Your Intuition; Guess Perfect Every Time", tuition $650
> and
> "How to Win Friends and Influence People; a Primer for Assholes".
> Don't miss
> this famous course inspired by Dale Carnegie. Tuition $650.
>
> In return, Greg must send me a pair of his speakers, which I will
> listen to,
> and recount the experience thereof in detail, here on rec.audio.opinion.

The online price for the Europas is $1350 per pair. But for you they're
not available at any price. Sorry.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 02:00 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" wrote in message
> ...
>
> >"Bob Morein" wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>. The world is full of successful assholes, and Greg
> >>should have the opportunity to join them.
> >>
> >
> >However, the unsuccessful assholes of the world gravitate to
> Philadelphia.
> >
>
> The miracle of the Internet allows assholes to congregate anywhere they
> choose, without actually moving their asses.

Where do you want to be moved to, Bob?

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 03:07 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > Good one, Morein!
> > >
> >
> >
> > And oh so 'Christain', to boot.
> >
> God Bless, Sockpuppet.
> May you and your child socks have many blessings.
>
>

I always wear my socks to church.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 03:10 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> >
> > >. The world is full of successful assholes, and Greg
> > > should have the opportunity to join them.
> > >
> >
> > However, the unsuccessful assholes of the world gravitate to
Philadelphia.
> >
> The miracle of the Internet allows assholes to congregate anywhere they
> choose, without actually moving their asses.
>
>

Good.
"at least" we don't have to suffer the rotten stench of Turdy.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 03:26 PM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Bobo, are you sleepwalking?
>
> > > > What terminated the evaluation?
>
> > > Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
> > > the evaluation?
>
> > I don't know.
> > Please tell me why.
>
> That's what I get for asking a rhetorical question. I suppose you
> two don't know because of drug problems.
>
> Or are you asking why dave ended the evaluation? If that's your
> question, dave answered it at length, and then I answered it in a
> short post of a couple sentences.
>
> Fire up that bong, dude!
>
>

You could answer the question for me, though. I was on
vacation and missed those posts. The weed was prima, BTW!

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dave weil

October 4th 03, 03:43 PM

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:54:14 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>What terminated the evaluation?

Was I not clear? Greg wasn't willing to wait for me to finish the
evaluation. I felt it was a waste of time to continue. I've got better
things to do with my time. My living room has been disrupted, my
adjacent room has large speakers sitting in the middle of it - and
obviously, Greg wanted something that I wasn't willing to give.

>Did Greg request the speakers back?

No. I'm waiting for word that he's going to have them picked up
though, since I have three boxes sitting in the middle of one of my
rooms.

>Do you feel that is a privileged communication, considering that the whole
>affair of your hopefully impartial evaluation has been one of the most
>ballyhooed events on r.a.o. ?

No. How can I consider open dialogue on RAO "privileged". I made no
secret of anything.

>It appears to me that you are inadvertently making it look like what it
>almost certainly is not -- the exercise of undue pressure on you to hold
>your tongue and return the speakers.

You're willfully taking this interpretation. The opposite is true.
Greg seemed to want my review to go in a certain direction, and so I
terminated it.

>Look, you agreed to do something in the public eye. A couple thousand people
>know you got the speakers and listened to them.
>Then, without explanation, you return them, once again in the public eye.

There *wwas* an explanation. Greg stated objections to my review in
progress. I felt that he jumped the gun. His objections weren't fair,
especially the ones where he talked about comparisons with other
speakers. He thought comparing my speakers with the Merlins was unfair
and that I should have mentioned the difference between the speakers
and the room. I had done JUST that very plainly, with the exception of
the price, which I had talked about previously on RAO. Prhaps I should
have - however, anyone who knows anything about Merlin knows that
their speakers are somewhat pricey. As to the Cornwalls, I hadn't
gotten around to a direct A/B comparison. I was kind of thinking that
the comparison might disabuse me of certain things I had said vis a
vis the difference between the speakers already, but we'll never know,
will we?

>Buck up, buddy boy. Whether you like it or not, you are a public personality
>in connection with Greg's speakers. You're giving the whole thing the
>appearance of scandal.

Oh please. I't flattering that you're investing this with the
importance of Enron or acedemic malfeasance, but don't let your
antipathy for me (or Mr. Singh) make you look like McCarty.

It's simple. I felt there was no need to waste any more of my time
since Greg decided to interfere and not let the review process take
its course. I'm sorry that my disappointment with certain aspects of
the Billie Holliday recording seemed to trigger his disappointment,
but it was disppointing to hear it for myself. However, it *would*
have been interesting to hear that album closely on the Cornwalls in
the same room and see if the same sort of "distortion" of what i
remember with the Merlins in the larger space holds true as well. I'll
probably do that for my own satisfaction. However, I don't feel the
need to share it with you - someone who has been aggressive toward me
druing this whole process.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 03:47 PM

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:54:14 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>In closing, your silence is the worst, absolute WORST possible thing that
>could happen to Greg Singh. It makes him look like an occult, devious
>manipulator.

I don't care how it makes him look. However, I've been nothing but
above board. If you think that terminating an evaluation due to PUBLIC
interference is welching, so be it. However, I note that there was no
private pressure at all. He *did* state his dissatisfaction quite
publically and above-boeard right here on RAO. I have had no
correspondence privately with him since around the time that I
received the speakers. The only thing I expressed to him at the time
was being a little wary of the subsonics issue right after I set them
up for my initial *informal* listening (while the Cornwalls were still
in the room).

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 03:57 PM

trotsky said:

> > I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> > a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.

> Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
> his I'm a *******.

Exactly. If you don't remember, go back and read the contract.

> I don't get people like you, George--you have
> obvious intelligence in a book-smart kind of way, but when it comes to
> interpreting the actions of others you get (are?) a zero. Sorry, that's
> just the way it is.

You don't know how sorry you are.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 03:58 PM

trotsky said:

> That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
> respond to my post

Tell us again how you're the expert in "interpreting the actions of
others".

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 04:03 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 05:27:46 -0400, George M. Middius
> wrote:

>
>
>Bobo wakes up from his nap.
>
>> > I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
>> > private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
>> > evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
>> >
>> What terminated the evaluation?
>
>Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
>the evaluation?

I'm trying to figure that out myself. Actually, I know the reason -
they just want something to grouse about. Even my spelling it out for
Bob like he was a third grader isn't going to do any good, I suspect.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 04:03 PM

Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

> > Or are you asking why dave ended the evaluation? If that's your
> > question, dave answered it at length, and then I answered it in a
> > short post of a couple sentences.
> >
> > Fire up that bong, dude!

> You could answer the question for me, though.

Or maybe dave will.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 04:42 PM

On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:26:11 -0400, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
> wrote:

>You could answer the question for me, though. I was on
>vacation and missed those posts. The weed was prima, BTW!

Basically, I was in the middle of the review process when Greg wrote a
rather lengthy refutation of the evaluation before I was finished with
the evaluation. He brought up points that were basically incorrect,
and some that hadn't finally been addressed by me, although I had
initially commented on them. He then took my current and past speakers
to task as well. He also brought up some fair points as well, but I
hadn't finished with the evaluation either. There were seveal
important direct comparisons left to be done - comparisions that might
have ocontradicted some of my preliminary impressions. I also didn't
get the chance to hook them up with my tube amp *nor* listen to them
in my bedoroom either.

I certainly expected him to carp about my gear in the end, but he knew
what gear i was going to be using and he *still* wanted me to do
comparisons.

The bottom line is this - I didn't feel like spending anymore time
under those conditions.

I'm also trying to avoid attacking his speakers as he has attacked
mine simply because I'm annoyed that he couldn't hold his water.

I will make *this* comment though (which is fairly clear from the
extant commentary). I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz. Those are mutually
exclusive conditions, regardless about how special the speaker is in
most other areas. I would have made this refutation at the end of the
period regardless.

If you can't find his "commentary" on *my* commentary, and the actions
that resulted from that, let me know and I'll post it here on RAO
again, with my answer.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 05:19 PM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sockpuppet Yustabe said:
>
> > > Or are you asking why dave ended the evaluation? If that's your
> > > question, dave answered it at length, and then I answered it in a
> > > short post of a couple sentences.
> > >
> > > Fire up that bong, dude!
>
> > You could answer the question for me, though.
>
> Or maybe dave will.
>
>

he did.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 05:22 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...

I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.

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Marc Phillips

October 4th 03, 05:52 PM

Bob said:

>"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
>> Bob Morein said:
>>
>> >I did think, just for a moment, that an elegant quotation, delivered in
>> >French, with quotation marks, would have served better than the finest
>> >offering of English.
>> >
>>
>> So you're one of those arrogant assholes who likes to sprinkle your prose
>with
>> foreign words and sayings in order to sound more intelligent?
>>
>> Boon
>>
>No, my prose style is more Hemingway or Steinbeck minimalist.

I did my thesis on those two guys, along with Kerouac, so I'd be interested to
see if you're right.

(Oh, and I wrote it in a week and got an A, so there was no reason to sue.)

Boon

trotsky

October 4th 03, 06:01 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> trotsky said:
>
>
> >>I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> >>a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.
>
>
>
> >Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
> >his I'm a *******.
>
>
> Exactly. If you don't remember, go back and read the contract.

I don't think I need to--I seem to remember dave specifically stating
that he expected a rebuttal to his comments. Heaven forbid I should
actually do so! Face it, George, you're exhibiting the exact same
behavior you condemn Krueger for.

>
>
>
> >I don't get people like you, George--you have
> >obvious intelligence in a book-smart kind of way, but when it comes to
> >interpreting the actions of others you get (are?) a zero. Sorry, that's
> >just the way it is.
>
>
> You don't know how sorry you are.

Ditto.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 06:02 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> trotsky said:
>
>
> >That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
> >respond to my post
>
>
> Tell us again how you're the expert in "interpreting the actions of
> others".
>
> Sorry, sorry, sorry.
>
>

George, you're spazzing out again.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 06:08 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:26:11 -0400, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
> wrote:
>
>
> >You could answer the question for me, though. I was on
> >vacation and missed those posts. The weed was prima, BTW!
>
>
> Basically, I was in the middle of the review process when Greg wrote a
> rather lengthy refutation of the evaluation before I was finished with
> the evaluation. He brought up points that were basically incorrect,
> and some that hadn't finally been addressed by me, although I had
> initially commented on them. He then took my current and past speakers
> to task as well. He also brought up some fair points as well, but I
> hadn't finished with the evaluation either. There were seveal
> important direct comparisons left to be done - comparisions that might
> have ocontradicted some of my preliminary impressions. I also didn't
> get the chance to hook them up with my tube amp *nor* listen to them
> in my bedoroom either.
>
> I certainly expected him to carp about my gear in the end, but he knew
> what gear i was going to be using and he *still* wanted me to do
> comparisons.
>
> The bottom line is this - I didn't feel like spending anymore time
> under those conditions.
>
> I'm also trying to avoid attacking his speakers as he has attacked
> mine

dave, you're pegging the bull**** meter again. Please show where I
"attacked" anything you own. The bottom line is that--miraculously--you
and I have been above board about this whole matter, except at the end
when I wrote the rebuttal you said earlier you expected from me, and
then you copped an attitude. What it boils down to is that I feel you
did a very poor job putting your remarks in context. I also
miscalculated: because you own Merlins I expected you to be more of a
critical listener than you are. Part of this is my mistake because
going from Merlins to Klipsches is definitely a red flag, even if you
did pick the best sounding Klipsch of the bunch.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 06:09 PM

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

> "dave weil" wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.
>
>

No, that's not correct.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:15 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:01:08 +0100, Langis > wrote:

>dave weil > wrote:
>
>>I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
>>able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
>>is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
>
>I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
>tweeter or cone neutral?

Yes. But that doesn't make the "speaker" neutral (speaker in toto I
mean). It's the sum of the parts that I'm referring to, not a raw
speaker.

> Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
>bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.

Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
can't be neutral, as I see it.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:15 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:08:37 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 10:26:11 -0400, "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >You could answer the question for me, though. I was on
>> >vacation and missed those posts. The weed was prima, BTW!
>>
>>
>> Basically, I was in the middle of the review process when Greg wrote a
>> rather lengthy refutation of the evaluation before I was finished with
>> the evaluation. He brought up points that were basically incorrect,
>> and some that hadn't finally been addressed by me, although I had
>> initially commented on them. He then took my current and past speakers
>> to task as well. He also brought up some fair points as well, but I
>> hadn't finished with the evaluation either. There were seveal
>> important direct comparisons left to be done - comparisions that might
>> have ocontradicted some of my preliminary impressions. I also didn't
>> get the chance to hook them up with my tube amp *nor* listen to them
>> in my bedoroom either.
>>
>> I certainly expected him to carp about my gear in the end, but he knew
>> what gear i was going to be using and he *still* wanted me to do
>> comparisons.
>>
>> The bottom line is this - I didn't feel like spending anymore time
>> under those conditions.
>>
>> I'm also trying to avoid attacking his speakers as he has attacked
>> mine
>
>
>
>dave, you're pegging the bull**** meter again. Please show where I
>"attacked" anything you own. The bottom line is that--miraculously--you
>and I have been above board about this whole matter, except at the end
>when I wrote the rebuttal you said earlier you expected from me, and
>then you copped an attitude. What it boils down to is that I feel you
>did a very poor job putting your remarks in context. I also
>miscalculated: because you own Merlins I expected you to be more of a
>critical listener than you are. Part of this is my mistake because
>going from Merlins to Klipsches is definitely a red flag, even if you
>did pick the best sounding Klipsch of the bunch.

<shrug>

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:16 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:09:23 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:
>
>> "dave weil" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>> I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.
>>
>>
>
>
>No, that's not correct.

Sure it is.

Quit pegging the "bull**** meter".

trotsky

October 4th 03, 06:17 PM

Langis wrote:

> dave weil wrote:
>
>
> >I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
> >able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
> >is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
>
>
> I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
> tweeter or cone neutral? Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
> bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.

Again, I have to say I'm disappointed. What I thought were commonly
used words in the lexicon of audio descriptions are somewhat foreign to
dave, for no particular reason that I can fathom.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 06:18 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:01:08 +0100, Langis wrote:
>
>
> >dave weil wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
> >>able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
> >>is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
> >
> >I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
> >tweeter or cone neutral?
>
>
> Yes. But that doesn't make the "speaker" neutral (speaker in toto I
> mean). It's the sum of the parts that I'm referring to, not a raw
> speaker.
>
>
> >Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
> >bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
>
>
> Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
> a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
> to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
> can't be neutral, as I see it.

Have you ever read an audio magazine in your life?

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 4th 03, 06:24 PM

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
>
> I did my thesis on those two guys, along with Kerouac, so I'd be
interested to
> see if you're right.
>
> (Oh, and I wrote it in a week and got an A, so there was no reason to
sue.)
>

I have a strong connection to Desolation Angels.

Bob's screenplay style would read more like a turgid technical
manual than any real life interactive scenario. Several weeks ago he
offered a sample of his stiff and disconnected (to human interaction)
style in a spoof on George, I think it was.

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:29 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:01:15 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>George M. Middius wrote:
>
>>
>> trotsky said:
>>
>>
>> >>I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
>> >>a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
>> >his I'm a *******.
>>
>>
>> Exactly. If you don't remember, go back and read the contract.
>
>
>
>I don't think I need to--I seem to remember dave specifically stating
>that he expected a rebuttal to his comments.

I'm sorry now that I didn't articulate the normal expected "at the end
of the review". After all, I didn't give you a conclusion at the
beginning of my review process. You may have *seen* it that way, and
that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
Allisons). There would have *never* been a direct comparison with the
Merlins due to their inoperative tweeters, but I can still use my
previous experiences with them as a reference. I *did*, contrary to
your comments, make it plain that they were being used in a much
larger room and that they are big boxes.

>Heaven forbid I should
>actually do so! Face it, George, you're exhibiting the exact same
>behavior you condemn Krueger for.

I'm sorry that things weren't going your way. I'm sorry that I
couldn't describe the speakers as being the best thing since sliced
bread. I'm sorry that you couldn't wait to find out how they would
have faired in real time comparisons. And mostly, I'm sorry for trying
to give RAO something to consider as the process continued.

>> >I don't get people like you, George--you have
>> >obvious intelligence in a book-smart kind of way, but when it comes to
>> >interpreting the actions of others you get (are?) a zero. Sorry, that's
>> >just the way it is.
>>
>>
>> You don't know how sorry you are.
>
>
>
>Ditto.

I don't think you'r going to fare well in the marketplace if this
experience is any indication. I'm not sure if you have the personality
to be an entrepreneur/manufacturer. YMWV, I'm sure.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:33 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:17:29 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Langis wrote:
>
>> dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>> >I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
>> >able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
>> >is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
>>
>>
>> I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
>> tweeter or cone neutral? Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
>> bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
>
>
>
>Again, I have to say I'm disappointed. What I thought were commonly
>used words

Like "explosive", right?

> in the lexicon of audio descriptions are somewhat foreign to
>dave, for no particular reason that I can fathom.

Neutral means something in my particular lexicon. It does *not* mean
departing from the current state.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:34 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:18:53 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:01:08 +0100, Langis wrote:
>>
>>
>> >dave weil wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
>> >>able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
>> >>is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
>> >
>> >I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
>> >tweeter or cone neutral?
>>
>>
>> Yes. But that doesn't make the "speaker" neutral (speaker in toto I
>> mean). It's the sum of the parts that I'm referring to, not a raw
>> speaker.
>>
>>
>> >Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
>> >bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
>>
>>
>> Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
>> a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
>> to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
>> can't be neutral, as I see it.
>
>
>
>Have you ever read an audio magazine in your life?

I thought you had trouble with audio magazines. Why the switch now?

dave weil

October 4th 03, 06:41 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 12:29:27 -0500, dave weil >
wrote:

>You may have *seen* it that way, and
>that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
>going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
>well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
>Allisons).

Should read: "but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches were preliminary
since I was going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker
systems"

Besides, I didn't make very many direct comparisons between the two
speakers anyway.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 06:45 PM

trotsky said:

> > >>I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> > >>a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.

> > >Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
> > >his I'm a *******.

> > Exactly. If you don't remember, go back and read the contract.

> I don't think I need to--I seem to remember dave specifically stating
> that he expected a rebuttal to his comments. Heaven forbid I should
> actually do so! Face it, George, you're exhibiting the exact same
> behavior you condemn Krueger for.

Delusional much?

> > You don't know how sorry you are.

> Ditto.

My daddy can whip your daddy.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 06:48 PM

trotsky said:

> > >That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
> > >respond to my post

> > Tell us again how you're the expert in "interpreting the actions of
> > others".

> > Sorry, sorry, sorry.

> George, you're spazzing out again.

New vocab entry in the trotsky-to-human dictionary:

spazzing out (colloq): Waaah! Stop cornering me with my own
stupid words! Waaah!

______________________ <== space for Gregipus's inevitable last word

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 06:49 PM

dave weil said:

> >> I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.

> >No, that's not correct.

> Sure it is.
> Quit pegging the "bull**** meter".

Maybe Gregipus is the real owner of the Lionella puppet. After all,
both of them are fond of telling people they don't mean what they
said. Oh wait, Krooger does that too........

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:30 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:09:23 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"dave weil" wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >>
> >>I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >No, that's not correct.
>
>
> Sure it is.
>
> Quit pegging the "bull**** meter".

Right, and suddenly you're at a loss for words when I explain what
really happened.

dave weil

October 4th 03, 09:32 PM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:30:34 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:09:23 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>>
>>
>> >Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>"dave weil" wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >No, that's not correct.
>>
>>
>> Sure it is.
>>
>> Quit pegging the "bull**** meter".
>
>
>
>Right, and suddenly you're at a loss for words when I explain what
>really happened.

There's that bull**** meter pegging again...

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:49 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:01:15 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >George M. Middius wrote:
> >
> >
> >>trotsky said:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> >>>>a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
> >>>his I'm a *******.
> >>
> >>
> >>Exactly. If you don't remember, go back and read the contract.
> >
> >
> >
> >I don't think I need to--I seem to remember dave specifically stating
> >that he expected a rebuttal to his comments.
>
>
> I'm sorry now that I didn't articulate the normal expected "at the end
> of the review".

dave, you seem confused. You *specifically* stated the third part of
the review would be your comments based on playing music. There was
*no* reason to believe this meant that you would keep going and going
and going like the Energizer Bunny with no end in sight.

> After all, I didn't give you a conclusion at the
> beginning of my review process. You may have *seen* it that way, and
> that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
> going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
> well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
> Allisons). There would have *never* been a direct comparison with the
> Merlins due to their inoperative tweeters, but I can still use my
> previous experiences with them as a reference. I *did*, contrary to
> your comments, make it plain that they were being used in a much
> larger room and that they are big boxes.

Not good enough. Your context wasn't plain enough. Bigger, more
expensive speakers in a different acoustical setting just aren't a good
basis for comparison.

>
>
>
> >Heaven forbid I should
> >actually do so! Face it, George, you're exhibiting the exact same
> >behavior you condemn Krueger for.
>
>
> I'm sorry that things weren't going your way.

I'm not sure what you mean: the Europas are FAR better speakers than you
were capable of communicating, but that's your problem, not mine. You
don't even know what "neutral" means, for Christ's sake.

> I'm sorry that I
> couldn't describe the speakers as being the best thing since sliced
> bread. I'm sorry that you couldn't wait to find out how they would
> have faired in real time comparisons. And mostly, I'm sorry for trying
> to give RAO something to consider as the process continued.

"Give RAO something to consider"? Are you kidding me? As the Steely
Dan song goes, "only a fool would say that." RAO doesn't "consider"
things, they rip it to shreds. I'm only here to drive guys like Mickey
McKelvy, Arny Krueger, and Bob Morion further insane--turds like that
aren't going to allow anything to be "considered".

>
>
>
> >>>I don't get people like you, George--you have
> >>>obvious intelligence in a book-smart kind of way, but when it comes to
> >>>interpreting the actions of others you get (are?) a zero. Sorry,
> that's
> >>>just the way it is.
> >>
> >>
> >>You don't know how sorry you are.
> >
> >
> >
> >Ditto.
>
>
> I don't think you'r going to fare well in the marketplace if this
> experience is any indication. I'm not sure if you have the personality
> to be an entrepreneur/manufacturer. YMWV, I'm sure.

You may be right. My years in retail have led me to believe there are
all kinds of train wrecks out there.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:52 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:17:29 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >Langis wrote:
> >
> >
> >>dave weil wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
> >>>able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
> >>>is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
> >>
> >>
> >>I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
> >>tweeter or cone neutral? Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
> >>bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
> >
> >
> >
> >Again, I have to say I'm disappointed. What I thought were commonly
> >used words
>
>
> Like "explosive", right?
>
>
> >in the lexicon of audio descriptions are somewhat foreign to
> >dave, for no particular reason that I can fathom.
>
>
> Neutral means something in my particular lexicon. It does *not* mean
> departing from the current state.

What are you talking about, dave? Is the "current state" Tennessee,
then? You stated/implied that the only speakers that can be described
as "neutral" are those that cover the limits of human hearing--NOBODY in
the history of audio has used that definition. It is a train wreck.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:54 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:18:53 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >dave weil wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:01:08 +0100, Langis wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>dave weil wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>I can't see a limited bandwidth speaker as being
> >>>>able to be described as "neutral", unless the only thing you listen to
> >>>>is chamber music or totally acoustic jazz.
> >>>
> >>>I have to disagree. You might say, for example, is a particular
> >>>tweeter or cone neutral?
> >>
> >>
> >>Yes. But that doesn't make the "speaker" neutral (speaker in toto I
> >>mean). It's the sum of the parts that I'm referring to, not a raw
> >>speaker.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
> >>>bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
> >>
> >>
> >>Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
> >>a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
> >>to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
> >>can't be neutral, as I see it.
> >
> >
> >
> >Have you ever read an audio magazine in your life?
>
>
> I thought you had trouble with audio magazines. Why the switch now?

What part of the word "lexicon" was confusing for you, dave? Like I
said, you're really getting petty. Just admit you were in over your
head, or back to <shrug> or whatever crap it is you egest when you don't
have anything useful to say.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:56 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> trotsky said:
>
>
> >>>>I'd guess there was an implicit condition that Gregipus behave like
> >>>>a professional, or at least an adult and not a spoiled child.
>
>
> >>>Yeah, that makes sense: dave can critique my efforts, but if I critique
> >>>his I'm a *******.
>
>
> >>Exactly. If you don't remember, go back and read the contract.
>
>
>
> >I don't think I need to--I seem to remember dave specifically stating
> >that he expected a rebuttal to his comments. Heaven forbid I should
> >actually do so! Face it, George, you're exhibiting the exact same
> >behavior you condemn Krueger for.
>
>
> Delusional much?

George, this is about audio--generally you just sit in the corner, remember?

Bob Morein

October 4th 03, 09:57 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:54:14 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >What terminated the evaluation?
>
> Was I not clear? Greg wasn't willing to wait for me to finish the
> evaluation. I felt it was a waste of time to continue. I've got better
> things to do with my time. My living room has been disrupted, my
> adjacent room has large speakers sitting in the middle of it - and
> obviously, Greg wanted something that I wasn't willing to give.
>
> >Did Greg request the speakers back?
>
> No. I'm waiting for word that he's going to have them picked up
> though, since I have three boxes sitting in the middle of one of my
> rooms.
>
> >Do you feel that is a privileged communication, considering that the
whole
> >affair of your hopefully impartial evaluation has been one of the most
> >ballyhooed events on r.a.o. ?
>
> No. How can I consider open dialogue on RAO "privileged". I made no
> secret of anything.
>
> >It appears to me that you are inadvertently making it look like what it
> >almost certainly is not -- the exercise of undue pressure on you to hold
> >your tongue and return the speakers.
>
> You're willfully taking this interpretation. The opposite is true.
> Greg seemed to want my review to go in a certain direction, and so I
> terminated it.
>
> >Look, you agreed to do something in the public eye. A couple thousand
people
> >know you got the speakers and listened to them.
> >Then, without explanation, you return them, once again in the public eye.
>
> There *wwas* an explanation. Greg stated objections to my review in
> progress. I felt that he jumped the gun. His objections weren't fair,
> especially the ones where he talked about comparisons with other
> speakers. He thought comparing my speakers with the Merlins was unfair
> and that I should have mentioned the difference between the speakers
> and the room. I had done JUST that very plainly, with the exception of
> the price, which I had talked about previously on RAO. Prhaps I should
> have - however, anyone who knows anything about Merlin knows that
> their speakers are somewhat pricey. As to the Cornwalls, I hadn't
> gotten around to a direct A/B comparison. I was kind of thinking that
> the comparison might disabuse me of certain things I had said vis a
> vis the difference between the speakers already, but we'll never know,
> will we?
>
> >Buck up, buddy boy. Whether you like it or not, you are a public
personality
> >in connection with Greg's speakers. You're giving the whole thing the
> >appearance of scandal.
>
> Oh please. I't flattering that you're investing this with the
> importance of Enron or acedemic malfeasance, but don't let your
> antipathy for me (or Mr. Singh) make you look like McCarty.
>
> It's simple. I felt there was no need to waste any more of my time
> since Greg decided to interfere and not let the review process take
> its course. I'm sorry that my disappointment with certain aspects of
> the Billie Holliday recording seemed to trigger his disappointment,
> but it was disppointing to hear it for myself. However, it *would*
> have been interesting to hear that album closely on the Cornwalls in
> the same room and see if the same sort of "distortion" of what i
> remember with the Merlins in the larger space holds true as well. I'll
> probably do that for my own satisfaction. However, I don't feel the
> need to share it with you - someone who has been aggressive toward me
> druing this whole process.

Being aggressive is a habit around here.
Thank you for the above explanation.
It completely satisfies me, and I withdraw any objection I had with respect
to your conduct of the review.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:57 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> trotsky said:
>
>
> >>>That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
> >>>respond to my post
>
>
> >>Tell us again how you're the expert in "interpreting the actions of
> >>others".
>
>
> >>Sorry, sorry, sorry.
>
>
>
> >George, you're spazzing out again.
>
>
> New vocab entry in the trotsky-to-human dictionary:
>
> spazzing out (colloq): Waaah! Stop cornering me with my own
> stupid words! Waaah!
>
>
> ______________________ <== space for Gregipus's inevitable last word
>
>

Zzzzz. Maybe Arny will come back so you have somebody to play with.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 09:59 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:30:34 GMT, trotsky wrote:
>
>
> >dave weil wrote:
> >
> >
> >>On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:09:23 GMT, trotsky wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"dave weil" wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>I understand your position, and it seems reasonable.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>No, that's not correct.
> >>
> >>
> >>Sure it is.
> >>
> >>Quit pegging the "bull**** meter".
> >
> >
> >
> >Right, and suddenly you're at a loss for words when I explain what
> >really happened.
>
>
> There's that bull**** meter pegging again...

I see, so you have a different interpretation when you responded with
<shrug>? I really didn't expect you to resort to lying here.

Joseph Oberlander

October 4th 03, 10:15 PM

dave weil wrote:

> You're willfully taking this interpretation. The opposite is true.
> Greg seemed to want my review to go in a certain direction, and so I
> terminated it.

Please state this a bit louder for posterity. :)

It *is* Trotsky's whale-sized ego we are talking about.

Me? I'd listen and start to pull apart the design and do some re-engineering.
I personally like doing that, so maybe it's me. Parts direct has those nice
cabinets. The front faceplate is removeable. He should buy like 20-30
replacements and start working with internals, placement, and ports.

At $8-12 each, it's cheap and easy re-engineering. No real excuse not
to find a good port design or experiment. He could also isolate the tweeter
as well if he wanted.

Here's a better tweeter, btw:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-085&ctab=1
Inexpensive, relatitely good results, and looks different.

I'd go with this one, though:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=264-555&ctab=1
Yes, it's about $60 for each driver, but the specs and graphs look impressive
for a budget design. It does need to be limited at about 30Khz, but nobody
hears that high up anyways, so no big deal.

Of course, if it was me, I'd use something like this and raise the price
to $3000. Aim for the high-end market. Yes, $1000 in parts per pair.
Properly designed, at only 3* markup, these would do well. At 100% markup,
or ~$2000, they'd sell very fast. Ford knew this and made a fortune due
to the sheer number of sales on his Model T. I bet I could sell five
for every one that Tortsky could.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=276-310&ctab=1
Pricey, but there you go - excellent driver to base a high-end design off of.
4 ohms is reasonable, considering it's a pretty flat impedance curve. Most
good 2-channel amplifiers will handle it.

I'm sure there are better, but that's what 10 minutes of looking at graphs
pulled up. The Vifa dual-concnetric seems like a great driver for the
price. Add in a good woofer and enjoy. OTOH, I don't think Trotsky wants
to spend $150 on drivers per speaker. Shame, too, as he could easily
justify his prices with better components. Markup ratios aside, he'd still
be making about $700 profit per speaker WITH better drivers.

He could also go with a sealed design. I personally like them better
than ported designs, but they do require a larger cabinet and tighter
performing drivers. OTOH, it does get rid of all of the port and speaker
placement issues.

The last thing I would do is **** all over the place.

George M. Middius

October 4th 03, 10:35 PM

Obie said:

> Me? I'd listen and start to pull apart the design and do some re-engineering.
> I personally like doing that, so maybe it's me.

It's definitely you.

Maybe Gregipus should invite you to be his engineering partner. You
can go about tweaking the design while Gregipus concentrates on
stuff he doesn't suck at. Of course, he'll also need a marketing
manager, since he thinks the best way to push his boxes is by
trashing every audio magazine in existence. And he'll need a sales
associate who isn't, like Gregipus, conditioned to call every
potential customer a "beatoff". And he'll need a fulfillment
subcontractor if the business heats up, because his legendary
ineptitude will lead to speakers being shipped without being fully
assembled.

A good start, though.

trotsky

October 4th 03, 10:50 PM

Langis wrote:

> dave weil wrote:
>
>
> >>Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
> >>bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
> >
> >Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
> >a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
> >to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
> >can't be neutral, as I see it.
>
>
> I see what you're saying, but it's a bit like saying "my washing
> machine doesn't work properly" because it doesn't have a dryer
> element. To some people it's a prerequisite that a washing machine
> should dry clothes into the bargain, other people may add on a dryer
> (subwoofer), or you could just live with the fact that you don't have
> this functionality. [Bit of a **** analogy I know... you get the
> idea.] When I'm thinking of neutrality, I'm thinking within reasonable
> expectations of the system in question.

I think you're being too nice here, PD. "Coloration" and "neutrality"
are terms/concepts that have been in place AT LEAST since the 70s, when
I first started reading publications about audio. There is no grey area
here.

Robert Morein

October 4th 03, 10:50 PM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> trotsky said:
>
> > > >That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
> > > >respond to my post
>
> > > Tell us again how you're the expert in "interpreting the actions of
> > > others".
>
> > > Sorry, sorry, sorry.
>
> > George, you're spazzing out again.
>
> New vocab entry in the trotsky-to-human dictionary:
>
> spazzing out (colloq): Waaah! Stop cornering me with my own
> stupid words! Waaah!
>
>
> ______________________ <== space for Gregipus's inevitable last word
>
By Jove!

Joseph Oberlander

October 4th 03, 11:36 PM

dave weil wrote:

> I'm sorry now that I didn't articulate the normal expected "at the end
> of the review". After all, I didn't give you a conclusion at the
> beginning of my review process. You may have *seen* it that way, and
> that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
> going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
> well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
> Allisons). There would have *never* been a direct comparison with the
> Merlins due to their inoperative tweeters,

Shame about that. OTOH, you can get replacement tweeters to drop
in for under $200.

Robert Morein

October 5th 03, 03:01 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 05:27:46 -0400, George M. Middius
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Bobo wakes up from his nap.
> >
> >> > I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
> >> > private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
> >> > evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
> >> >
> >> What terminated the evaluation?
> >
> >Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
> >the evaluation?
>
> I'm trying to figure that out myself. Actually, I know the reason -
> they just want something to grouse about. Even my spelling it out for
> Bob like he was a third grader isn't going to do any good, I suspect.

No, I got it, thanks.

dave weil

October 5th 03, 06:55 AM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:49:39 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>dave, you seem confused. You *specifically* stated the third part of
>the review would be your comments based on playing music.

You obviously weren't paying attention.

dave weil

October 5th 03, 07:02 AM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:20:32 +0100, Langis > wrote:

>dave weil > wrote:
>
>>> Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
>>>bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
>>
>>Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
>>a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
>>to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
>>can't be neutral, as I see it.
>
>I see what you're saying, but it's a bit like saying "my washing
>machine doesn't work properly" because it doesn't have a dryer
>element. To some people it's a prerequisite that a washing machine
>should dry clothes into the bargain, other people may add on a dryer
>(subwoofer), or you could just live with the fact that you don't have
>this functionality. [Bit of a **** analogy I know... you get the
>idea.] When I'm thinking of neutrality, I'm thinking within reasonable
>expectations of the system in question.

Fair enough.

dave weil

October 5th 03, 07:09 AM

On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:36:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
> wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>
>> I'm sorry now that I didn't articulate the normal expected "at the end
>> of the review". After all, I didn't give you a conclusion at the
>> beginning of my review process. You may have *seen* it that way, and
>> that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
>> going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
>> well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
>> Allisons). There would have *never* been a direct comparison with the
>> Merlins due to their inoperative tweeters,
>
>Shame about that. OTOH, you can get replacement tweeters to drop
>in for under $200.

Actually, it will only cost me $100 for both as I think the assembly
is modular and Mr. Palkovich has the spare parts ($50 for each side).
I just need to actually take them out, which isn't as easy as it
sounds since the entire speaker is wrapped in cloth and I'm worried
that i won't be able to stretch it back into place correctly...

I *really* should get around to it though...

Arny Krueger

October 5th 03, 10:00 AM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Michael Mckelvy wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Singh brought on all his own problems by flaming nearly everybody who
> > voiced
> > an opinion he didn't like and by demonstrating that he is without
> > integrity
> > by welching on a bet.

> That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
> respond to my post calling for his leaving the group all six times I
> posted it?

The explanation is that we all know that a true sign of insanity is
repeating the same behavior again and again and expecting a different
result. I was simply trying to determine how insane Singh is by allowing him
to repeat his same behavior until he stopped on his own.

I suspect that this explanation will ruin the experiment, and we'll never
know exactly how insane Singh is. My regrets!

Joseph Oberlander

October 5th 03, 10:38 AM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:36:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
> > wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm sorry now that I didn't articulate the normal expected "at the end
>>>of the review". After all, I didn't give you a conclusion at the
>>>beginning of my review process. You may have *seen* it that way, and
>>>that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
>>>going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
>>>well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
>>>Allisons). There would have *never* been a direct comparison with the
>>>Merlins due to their inoperative tweeters,
>>
>>Shame about that. OTOH, you can get replacement tweeters to drop
>>in for under $200.
>
>
> Actually, it will only cost me $100 for both as I think the assembly
> is modular and Mr. Palkovich has the spare parts ($50 for each side).
> I just need to actually take them out, which isn't as easy as it
> sounds since the entire speaker is wrapped in cloth and I'm worried
> that i won't be able to stretch it back into place correctly...
>
> I *really* should get around to it though...

Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
should WAY more than cover it.)

Arny Krueger

October 5th 03, 11:03 AM

"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
ink.net...

> Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
> a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
> should WAY more than cover it.)

Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having owned
speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually no
online mention of, including the manufacturer's web site? Obviously
everybody is really proud of them and they are quite legendary...

I find it interesting is the fact that the manufacturer gives this as the
first (and presumably most important) reason to buy his speakers:

http://www.merlinmusic.com/about.htm

"Our speakers will look as fresh in twenty years as they do today. "

I found more about "clear coat" on the http://www.merlinmusic.com web site
than I found information about what most technical people would recognize as
a discussion of loudspeaker technology...

Seems like the perfect speaker manufacturer to appeal to Weil's tastes.

trotsky

October 5th 03, 01:09 PM

dave weil wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:49:39 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>dave, you seem confused. You *specifically* stated the third part of
>>the review would be your comments based on playing music.
>
>
> You obviously weren't paying attention.

Oh, yeah, that naturally follows.

trotsky

October 5th 03, 01:15 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
>>Michael Mckelvy wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Singh brought on all his own problems by flaming nearly everybody who
>>>voiced
>>>an opinion he didn't like and by demonstrating that he is without
>>>integrity
>>>by welching on a bet.
>>
>
>>That's interesting--what's your theory on why Arny has been unable to
>>respond to my post calling for his leaving the group all six times I
>>posted it?
>
>
> The explanation is that we all know that a true sign of insanity is
> repeating the same behavior again and again and expecting a different
> result. I was simply trying to determine how insane Singh is by allowing him
> to repeat his same behavior until he stopped on his own.
>
> I suspect that this explanation will ruin the experiment, and we'll never
> know exactly how insane Singh is. My regrets!

Arny, you are now just plain lying, which is hardly something a
Christian should be doing. I caught you talking trash, and now you
aren't man enough to respond. Hell, even McKelvy might get a whiff of
just how stinky and disgusting you are from this episode. Funny how he
doesn't have a response for me either.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 5th 03, 02:34 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

> The explanation is that we all know that a true sign of insanity is
> repeating the same behavior again and again and expecting a different
> result.

Maybe you really aren't insane, Arny.

Your MO is to repeat your same behavior and expect the same result...
..... complete self humiliatioin.

Maybe that fits your definition of sanity.

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dave weil

October 5th 03, 02:56 PM

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:38:00 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
> wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:36:52 GMT, Joseph Oberlander
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I'm sorry now that I didn't articulate the normal expected "at the end
>>>>of the review". After all, I didn't give you a conclusion at the
>>>>beginning of my review process. You may have *seen* it that way, and
>>>>that's your right, but my comments vis a vis the Klipsches since I was
>>>>going to actually do a direct A/B between the two speaker systems (as
>>>>well as pitting them directly against another 8 inch system, the
>>>>Allisons). There would have *never* been a direct comparison with the
>>>>Merlins due to their inoperative tweeters,
>>>
>>>Shame about that. OTOH, you can get replacement tweeters to drop
>>>in for under $200.
>>
>>
>> Actually, it will only cost me $100 for both as I think the assembly
>> is modular and Mr. Palkovich has the spare parts ($50 for each side).
>> I just need to actually take them out, which isn't as easy as it
>> sounds since the entire speaker is wrapped in cloth and I'm worried
>> that i won't be able to stretch it back into place correctly...
>>
>> I *really* should get around to it though...
>
>Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
>a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
>should WAY more than cover it.)

Well, you were assuming something like $90 a tweeter, right? I was
just pointing out that I don't have to replace the whole tweeter,
according to Mr. Palkovich.

dave weil

October 5th 03, 03:09 PM

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:03:12 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
>"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
>> Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
>> a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
>> should WAY more than cover it.)
>
>Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having owned
>speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually no
>online mention of, including the manufacturer's web site? Obviously
>everybody is really proud of them and they are quite legendary...

I don't know why Merlin doesn't "brag" about this Export model. As far
as I know, there aren't that many of them. Maybe building a 300 lb
speaker set for export proved to be a marketing mistake. Who knows?

>I find it interesting is the fact that the manufacturer gives this as the
>first (and presumably most important) reason to buy his speakers:
>
>http://www.merlinmusic.com/about.htm
>
>"Our speakers will look as fresh in twenty years as they do today. "

Your presuming skills are always suspect, you know.

>I found more about "clear coat" on the http://www.merlinmusic.com web site
>than I found information about what most technical people would recognize as
>a discussion of loudspeaker technology...

Yes, you are well known for not having a handle on how to find things
on the internet.

>Seems like the perfect speaker manufacturer to appeal to Weil's tastes.

Your unfamiliarity with Merlin is noted. Maybe you should ask Mr.
McKelvy about the company. He seems well impressed with them.

I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
little dog cute?

dave weil

October 5th 03, 03:12 PM

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:09:11 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:49:39 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave, you seem confused. You *specifically* stated the third part of
>>>the review would be your comments based on playing music.
>>
>>
>> You obviously weren't paying attention.
>
>
>
>Oh, yeah, that naturally follows.

Thank you.

George M. Middius

October 5th 03, 03:28 PM

dave weil said:

> >>>dave, you seem confused. You *specifically* stated the third part of
> >>>the review would be your comments based on playing music.

> >> You obviously weren't paying attention.

> >Oh, yeah, that naturally follows.

> Thank you.

Gregipus at least shows you a modicum of respect. When I made the
same observation, he immediately slipped into name-calling mode.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 5th 03, 05:03 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>
> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
> little dog cute?

Especially when he chokes on it.

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Arny Krueger

October 5th 03, 07:08 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:03:12 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> >> Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
> >> a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
> >> should WAY more than cover it.)
> >
> >Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having
owned
> >speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually
no
> >online mention of, including the manufacturer's web site? Obviously
> >everybody is really proud of them and they are quite legendary...
>
> I don't know why Merlin doesn't "brag" about this Export model. As far
> as I know, there aren't that many of them. Maybe building a 300 lb
> speaker set for export proved to be a marketing mistake. Who knows?
>
> >I find it interesting is the fact that the manufacturer gives this as the
> >first (and presumably most important) reason to buy his speakers:
> >
> >http://www.merlinmusic.com/about.htm
> >
> >"Our speakers will look as fresh in twenty years as they do today. "
>
> Your presuming skills are always suspect, you know.
>
> >I found more about "clear coat" on the http://www.merlinmusic.com web
site
> >than I found information about what most technical people would recognize
as
> >a discussion of loudspeaker technology...
>
> Yes, you are well known for not having a handle on how to find things
> on the internet.
>
> >Seems like the perfect speaker manufacturer to appeal to Weil's tastes.
>
> Your unfamiliarity with Merlin is noted. Maybe you should ask Mr.
> McKelvy about the company. He seems well impressed with them.

Interesting Weil that you couldn't shed any light on the perfectly
reasonable question that I asked above.

> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
> little dog cute?

It's the old Weil deception machine working its *magic*. I ask a simple
question about his alleged speakers that he can't answer, and next thing
he's going to the dogs.

LOL!

dave weil

October 5th 03, 07:59 PM

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:08:04 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
>"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:03:12 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
>> >
>> >> Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
>> >> a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
>> >> should WAY more than cover it.)
>> >
>> >Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having
>owned
>> >speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually
>no
>> >online mention of, including the manufacturer's web site? Obviously
>> >everybody is really proud of them and they are quite legendary...
>>
>> I don't know why Merlin doesn't "brag" about this Export model. As far
>> as I know, there aren't that many of them. Maybe building a 300 lb
>> speaker set for export proved to be a marketing mistake. Who knows?
>>
>> >I find it interesting is the fact that the manufacturer gives this as the
>> >first (and presumably most important) reason to buy his speakers:
>> >
>> >http://www.merlinmusic.com/about.htm
>> >
>> >"Our speakers will look as fresh in twenty years as they do today. "
>>
>> Your presuming skills are always suspect, you know.
>>
>> >I found more about "clear coat" on the http://www.merlinmusic.com web
>site
>> >than I found information about what most technical people would recognize
>as
>> >a discussion of loudspeaker technology...
>>
>> Yes, you are well known for not having a handle on how to find things
>> on the internet.
>>
>> >Seems like the perfect speaker manufacturer to appeal to Weil's tastes.
>>
>> Your unfamiliarity with Merlin is noted. Maybe you should ask Mr.
>> McKelvy about the company. He seems well impressed with them.
>
>Interesting Weil that you couldn't shed any light on the perfectly
>reasonable question that I asked above.

OK, the only question I could find was this:

>> >Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having owned
>> >speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually no online
>> > mention of, including the manufacturer's web site?

Well, it starts out as a statement but he oddly turns it into a
question.

My answer would be that the number of web references doesn't have
anything to do with the quality of a louspeaker. If it did, Bose would
be the greatest louspeaker ever. Therefore, the reason that I might be
"bragging" about the Merlins is because of the great quality of
reproduction. The specs bear this out, the drivers bear this out -
everything is "Arnold-approved" for great sound, so he must agree with
me, right?

>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
>> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
>> little dog cute?
>
>It's the old Weil deception machine working its *magic*. I ask a simple
>question about his alleged speakers that he can't answer, and next thing
>he's going to the dogs.
>
>LOL!

Well, when you lie down with dogs and all that...

Joseph Oberlander

October 5th 03, 08:30 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
>
>>Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
>>a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
>>should WAY more than cover it.)
>
>
> Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having owned
> speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually no
> online mention of, including the manufacturer's web site? Obviously
> everybody is really proud of them and they are quite legendary...
>
> I find it interesting is the fact that the manufacturer gives this as the
> first (and presumably most important) reason to buy his speakers:
>
> http://www.merlinmusic.com/about.htm
>
> "Our speakers will look as fresh in twenty years as they do today. "
>
> I found more about "clear coat" on the http://www.merlinmusic.com web site
> than I found information about what most technical people would recognize as
> a discussion of loudspeaker technology...
>
> Seems like the perfect speaker manufacturer to appeal to Weil's tastes.

Actually, they seem to be respectably built speakers. Myself, I'd
probably go for one of the Madisound SEAS kits like the Cygnet MK2.

This looks like it will stomp on Greg's speaker by a large margin,
and at $455 a pair, they seem to be a good deal. Have you listened
to these or know of reviews?

Joseph Oberlander

October 5th 03, 08:33 PM

One more question:

http://www.seas.no/charis.htm

What about these? Cost? They seem to also be very good designs.

Lionel

October 5th 03, 09:03 PM

Joseph Oberlander wrote:

> One more question:
>
> http://www.seas.no/charis.htm
>
> What about these? Cost? They seem to also be very good designs.
>

"Keywords for the speaker will be:

Extreme transparency, maybe the most transparent
construction I have ever made
Very coherent and neutral sound reproduction"

It looks like Trotsky has already found this site before you !

LOL

Joseph Oberlander

October 5th 03, 09:25 PM

dave weil wrote:

> Your unfamiliarity with Merlin is noted. Maybe you should ask Mr.
> McKelvy about the company. He seems well impressed with them.
>
> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
> little dog cute?

I checked the drivers. Evidently the link I posted was for a copycat
Chinese made firm and not the deal deal(shame, too, since the prices are
virtually the same for the real thing).

Anyways - the specs for the Merlin's(Morel) drivers are impressive. I saw
nothing that ScanSpeak made that was as clean as that woofer for
a simmilar price - though SEAS makes simmilar quality drivers from
what I could tell. IMO, it looks like a good setup - though I'd
look at replacing the 30 series driver with a 32. It seems to be a
better driver for only a few more dollars.

Ask the maker about this - it would be interesting to get some
feedback on this.

Joseph Oberlander

October 5th 03, 09:27 PM

Lionel wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>> One more question:
>>
>> http://www.seas.no/charis.htm
>>
>> What about these? Cost? They seem to also be very good designs.
>>
>
> "Keywords for the speaker will be:
>
> Extreme transparency, maybe the most transparent
> construction I have ever made
> Very coherent and neutral sound reproduction"
>
> It looks like Trotsky has already found this site before you !
>
> LOL
>

Heh. Good one.

Actualy, they seem like decent enough speakers and yet don't
have Greg's markup. The drivers are made in Europe and are
high quality designs as well - much better than his drivers -
so they likely would sound pretty decent.

Arny Krueger

October 5th 03, 10:45 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...

> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:08:04 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:

> >"dave weil" > wrote in message
> ...

> >> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:03:12 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> >> wrote and repeated this question before Weil attempted to answer it:

> >> >Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having
owned
> >> >speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be
virtually no online
> >> > mention of, including the manufacturer's web site?

> Well, it starts out as a statement but he oddly turns it into a
> question.

Given the ragged run-on sentences you seem to be afflicted with lately,
Singh...

> My answer would be that the number of web references doesn't have
> anything to do with the quality of a louspeaker.

First off Weil, we're not talking about a "louspeaker" which is an amusing
Freudian slip given that most of your loudspeaker collection is probably
infested with vermin.

I would call your theory about web references and quality to be a false
claim. Consider the other speakers in Merlin's product line, namely the ones
that are mentioned all over the web, and are also highly reviewed. Consider
the review on Stereophile's web site.

> If it did, Bose would be the greatest louspeaker ever.

One data point doesn't prove a far-reaching generalization.

>Therefore,

Since no logical foundation has yet been laid, so the "Therefore" is
completely inappropriate.

> the reason that I might be
> "bragging" about the Merlins is because of the great quality of
> reproduction.

Weil, didn't you say something like that about Klipsch Cornwalls, a speaker
that seems to have been totally abandoned by all but a tiny group of
iconoclasts?

> The specs bear this out,

What specs? Please provide a URL or other independent authority that we can
be reasonably expected to inspect.

>the drivers bear this out -

What drivers? Please provide a URL or other independent authority that we
can be reasonably expected to inspect.

> everything is "Arnold-approved" for great sound, so he must agree with
me, right?

Again, there's no visible support for this conclusion. This must be another
one of those Weil "Great Truths".

I've got a different idea about "Merlin EXP3" speakers that is suggested by
other members of the incredible Weil memorial senior loudspeaker
collection. They are so out-of-date that not even their manufacturer deigns
to mention them. He considers them to be so obsolete as to be not worth even
alluding to.

> >> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
> >> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
> >> little dog cute?

> >It's the old Weil deception machine working its *magic*. I ask a simple
> >question about his alleged speakers that he can't answer, and next thing
> >he's going to the dogs.

> >LOL!

> Well, when you lie down with dogs and all that...

Highly ironic given that Weil admits he collects "louspeakers".

Lionel

October 6th 03, 04:52 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 05:27:46 -0400, George M. Middius
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Bobo wakes up from his nap.
>>
>>
>>>>I haven't betrayed anyone's trust. My evaluation hasn't been entirely
>>>>private. I simply have not drawn a final conclusion because the
>>>>evaluation has been terminated prematurely.
>>>>
>>>
>>>What terminated the evaluation?
>>
>>Why are you and Lionella the only ones who don't know why dave ended
>>the evaluation?
>
>
> I'm trying to figure that out myself. Actually, I know the reason -
> they just want something to grouse about. Even my spelling it out for
> Bob like he was a third grader isn't going to do any good, I suspect.

You really don't understand anything Dave.
I read your 3 reviews, you are ok saying that perhaps I have been the
only one.
Ok, I will not speak anymore about your humiliation or things like that.
Before you start the job I told you that you will be frustrated and you
have been...
Yes I like to make nasty jokes about Trotsky and his speakers can you
understand that ? I despise Trotsky, he is an idiot, a cruel idiot.
Every critics you would have been able to write about his speakers would
have been munition for my sarcasms.

Michael Mckelvy

October 8th 03, 08:42 AM

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 06:03:12 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Joseph Oberlander" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> >
> >> Hence my under $200 - I was figuring replacement fabric and maybe
> >> a couple of gaskets(don't know exactly how they are made, but $200
> >> should WAY more than cover it.)
> >
> >Perhaps someone could explain to me why Weil is bragging about having
owned
> >speakers he calls "Merlin EXP3", for which there seems to be virtually
no
> >online mention of, including the manufacturer's web site? Obviously
> >everybody is really proud of them and they are quite legendary...
>
> I don't know why Merlin doesn't "brag" about this Export model. As far
> as I know, there aren't that many of them. Maybe building a 300 lb
> speaker set for export proved to be a marketing mistake. Who knows?
>
> >I find it interesting is the fact that the manufacturer gives this as the
> >first (and presumably most important) reason to buy his speakers:
> >
> >http://www.merlinmusic.com/about.htm
> >
> >"Our speakers will look as fresh in twenty years as they do today. "
>
> Your presuming skills are always suspect, you know.
>
> >I found more about "clear coat" on the http://www.merlinmusic.com web
site
> >than I found information about what most technical people would recognize
as
> >a discussion of loudspeaker technology...
>
> Yes, you are well known for not having a handle on how to find things
> on the internet.
>
> >Seems like the perfect speaker manufacturer to appeal to Weil's tastes.
>
> Your unfamiliarity with Merlin is noted. Maybe you should ask Mr.
> McKelvy about the company. He seems well impressed with them.
>
> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
> little dog cute?

And that's different than you how, exactly?

dave weil

October 8th 03, 04:02 PM

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
> wrote:

>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
>> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
>> little dog cute?
>
>And that's different than you how, exactly?

Or you for that matter.

Bruce J. Richman

October 8th 03, 05:22 PM

Dave Weil wrote:

>On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
> wrote:
>
>>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute - like a
>>> little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel - isn't the
>>> little dog cute?
>>
>>And that's different than you how, exactly?
>
>Or you for that matter.
>
>
>
>
>
>

duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.

Bruce J. Richman

Arny Krueger

October 8th 03, 05:45 PM

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message

> Dave Weil wrote:
>
>
>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute -
>>>> like a little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel -
>>>> isn't the little dog cute?
>>>
>>> And that's different than you how, exactly?
>>
>> Or you for that matter.

> duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.

Just think, Richman had to earn a PhD in what Psychology, to learn how to
write intelligent, mature things like this. He's quite an eloquent man of
letters, is he not?

Bruce J. Richman

October 8th 03, 07:59 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:

>"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message

>> Dave Weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute -
>>>>> like a little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel -
>>>>> isn't the little dog cute?
>>>>
>>>> And that's different than you how, exactly?
>>>
>>> Or you for that matter.
>
>> duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.
>
>Just think, Richman had to earn a PhD in what Psychology, to learn how to
>write intelligent, mature things like this.
As best I can recall, this may be the first time that compulsive liar Krueger
has publically acknowledged that I've earned a PhD in Psychology.

SCORE !!!!

Unfortunately, as he has demonstrated before, his stupidity (and loyalty to
duh-Mikey) prevents him from even remotely comprehending why people earn this
degree. So perhaps it is worth pointing out that one of the things
psychologists learn is how to "lower" their level of communication to that of
those with whom they are dealing. When it comes to duh--Mikey, of course (and
his only soulmate, Krueger), it is not easy to get low enough to do this. As
Krueger so predictably demonstrates, however, compulsive lieing and namecalling
are never too far away.

LOL!

He's quite an eloquent man of
>letters, is he not?
>
>

It all depends on the audience, Krueger. For you and McKelvy, the KISS
principle has to be implemented.

I wouldn't want anything to interfere with your circular mutual admiration
games for too long.

Bruce J. Richman

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 9th 03, 01:36 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message
>
> > Dave Weil wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
> >> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute -
> >>>> like a little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel -
> >>>> isn't the little dog cute?
> >>>
> >>> And that's different than you how, exactly?
> >>
> >> Or you for that matter.
>
> > duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.
>
> Just think, Richman had to earn a PhD in what Psychology, to learn how to
> write intelligent, mature things like this. He's quite an eloquent man of
> letters, is he not?

He is describing the vulgar and disgusting relationship between Mikey and
you. There is no pretty and flowery way to describe it. He is just being
truthful and accurate.

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George M. Middius

October 9th 03, 01:46 AM

Sockpuppet Yustabe said to ****-for-Brains:

> > > duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.
> >
> > Just think, Richman had to earn a PhD in what Psychology, to learn how to
> > write intelligent, mature things like this. He's quite an eloquent man of
> > letters, is he not?
>
> He is describing the vulgar and disgusting relationship between Mikey and
> you. There is no pretty and flowery way to describe it. He is just being
> truthful and accurate.

I agree. It takes a fair amount of adroitness with language to evoke
that pair's proclivity for fecal behavior by using only a euphemism.

Arny Krueger

October 9th 03, 12:24 PM

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message

> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> "Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Dave Weil wrote:

>>>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
>>>> > wrote:

>>>>>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute -
>>>>>> like a little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel -
>>>>>> isn't the little dog cute?

>>>>> And that's different than you how, exactly?

>>>> Or you for that matter.

>>> duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.

>> Just think, Richman had to earn a PhD in what Psychology, to learn
>> how to write intelligent, mature things like this.

> As best I can recall, this may be the first time that compulsive liar
> Krueger has publically acknowledged that I've earned a PhD in
> Psychology.

Given the sarcastic tone and indefinite mention of your alleged degree
Richman, I don't think you can take what I said as being anything that I'm
even slightly sure of. You might want to take it to the bank and see how
many pennies they will give you for it.

> SCORE !!!!

One has to be really mentally impoverished to find much joy in what I said.

> Unfortunately, as he has demonstrated before, his stupidity (and
> loyalty to duh-Mikey) prevents him from even remotely comprehending
> why people earn this degree.

There's no support for this claim. I'd go so far as to say that our respect
for many of the people who have earned this degree is one of the things that
makes us skeptical of your claims, Richman.

> So perhaps it is worth pointing out
> that one of the things psychologists learn is how to "lower" their
> level of communication to that of those with whom they are dealing.

Most people have the social skills required to effectively communicate with
a variety of listeners without talking down to them or insulting them.

> When it comes to duh--Mikey, of course (and his only soulmate,
> Krueger), it is not easy to get low enough to do this.

This would be a problem for people who aren't very flexible or experienced
with working with a variety of people.

> As Krueger so
> predictably demonstrates, however, compulsive lieing and namecalling
> are never too far away.

Ironically Richman, you've made the great mistake of accusing me of lying
when I mentioned that you might have earned a PhD in Psychology.

<So there you have it folks, Bruce Richman just said that anybody who claims
that he earned a PhD in Psychology is lying!>

> LOL!

Joke's on you, Brucie!

> He's quite an eloquent man of letters, is he not?

> It all depends on the audience, Krueger. For you and McKelvy, the
> KISS principle has to be implemented.

Most functioning adults can keep it simple without becoming egregiously
insulting. But I did say "functioning adults" didn't I?

> I wouldn't want anything to interfere with your circular mutual
> admiration games for too long.

Let's face it Bruce, us guys who know the difference between an ohm and a
volt are kinda forced to stick together by all the flaming idiots around us.
Enjoy your flames!

Arny Krueger

October 9th 03, 12:25 PM

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message
>>
>>> Dave Weil wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:42:16 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> I love the way that Arnold latches on to something. It's cute -
>>>>>> like a little toy terrier with a balled-up sock. Look Mabel -
>>>>>> isn't the little dog cute?
>>>>>
>>>>> And that's different than you how, exactly?
>>>>
>>>> Or you for that matter.
>>
>>> duh-Mikey has been sniffing Krueger's rear end for years.
>>
>> Just think, Richman had to earn a PhD in what Psychology, to learn
>> how to write intelligent, mature things like this. He's quite an
>> eloquent man of letters, is he not?
>
> He is describing the vulgar and disgusting relationship between Mikey
> and you. There is no pretty and flowery way to describe it. He is
> just being truthful and accurate.

Please be more specific about your claims about the relationship between
McKelvy and I.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

October 10th 03, 01:07 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Please be more specific about your claims about the relationship between
> McKelvy and I.
>

Install a rear view mirror, and you'll find out.

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Lorne Fraser

October 30th 03, 08:01 AM

I need info on Sphis Audioproduct model lbx250 studio monitors please.

Lorne

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:49:39 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
> >dave, you seem confused. You *specifically* stated the third part of
> >the review would be your comments based on playing music.
>
> You obviously weren't paying attention.

Lorne Fraser

October 30th 03, 08:01 AM

I need info on Sphis Audioproduct model lbx250 studio monitors please.

Lorne
"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2003 22:20:32 +0100, Langis > wrote:
>
> >dave weil > wrote:
> >
> >>> Just because it doesn't reproduce the full
> >>>bandwidth doesn't prohibit this.
> >>
> >>Neutral to me has a very particular connotation that isn't filled with
> >>a limited bandwidth speaker on many kinds of music. If it isn't able
> >>to reproduce deep bass present on many forms of modern music, it just
> >>can't be neutral, as I see it.
> >
> >I see what you're saying, but it's a bit like saying "my washing
> >machine doesn't work properly" because it doesn't have a dryer
> >element. To some people it's a prerequisite that a washing machine
> >should dry clothes into the bargain, other people may add on a dryer
> >(subwoofer), or you could just live with the fact that you don't have
> >this functionality. [Bit of a **** analogy I know... you get the
> >idea.] When I'm thinking of neutrality, I'm thinking within reasonable
> >expectations of the system in question.
>
> Fair enough.