About the futur of the wine.

[Lionel]

Gentlemen,
You are hardly discussing about audio since years ans years.
Some of you spend incredible amount of time and money to listen, test,
buy audio devices...
Guys like Mr. Krueger sometime tell you that you could have the same
pleasure with 100 times less money, they say that most of "your" audio
is nothing but phantasm for rich people. You cannot accept such simplist
explanations and I understand that.
Audio is a very, very young hobby maximum 70 - 60 years old and it has
already all the gallery of "usual hobbyist characters".
I understand and I like that.
So now you can understand my disappointed surprise when I read the
following coming from gentlemen like you. I sincerely think that you are
the Krooborgs of the wine.

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:14:05 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:


>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>
>>>> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:01:03 +0100, Langis > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>George M. Middius > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>Screwcaps are the future of fine wine.
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If anybody thinks caps are cheap, note that corks are cheaper!
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> However, the supply of corks is not assured. This is the main reason
>>>> for the gradual switchover to screwcaps and composite corks, although
>>>> the Germans are probably employing their typical adherance to logic
>>>> and science.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:48:23 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>Gentlemen,
>You are hardly discussing about audio since years ans years.
>Some of you spend incredible amount of time and money to listen, test,
>buy audio devices...
>Guys like Mr. Krueger sometime tell you that you could have the same
>pleasure with 100 times less money, they say that most of "your" audio
>is nothing but phantasm for rich people. You cannot accept such simplist
>explanations and I understand that.
>Audio is a very, very young hobby maximum 70 - 60 years old and it has
>already all the gallery of "usual hobbyist characters".
>I understand and I like that.
>So now you can understand my disappointed surprise when I read the
>following coming from gentlemen like you. I sincerely think that you are
>the Krooborgs of the wine.

You know, just because you're French doesn't mean that we can assume
that you know **** about wine.

After all, the French have more than their share of **** wine. Plus,
they have their share of con men as well (as was proven fairly
recently when . Fortunately, the French government usually takes
pretty swift action, as François and Philippe Marion found out not too
long ago).

At least your vintners found out that a preponderance of their
"corked" wines didn't actually have anything to do with the cork, but
with the polychloroanisoles used in preserving the barrels. We don't
really have that problem here in the states.

>On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:14:05 +0200, Lionel >
>wrote:
>
>
> >>dave weil wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>>> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:01:03 +0100, Langis > wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>>>>>George M. Middius > wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>Screwcaps are the future of fine wine.
> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>If anybody thinks caps are cheap, note that corks are cheaper!
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> However, the supply of corks is not assured. This is the main reason
> >>>> for the gradual switchover to screwcaps and composite corks, although
> >>>> the Germans are probably employing their typical adherance to logic
> >>>> and science.

[dave weil]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:43:48 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:48:23 +0200, Lionel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Gentlemen,
>>>You are hardly discussing about audio since years ans years.
>>>Some of you spend incredible amount of time and money to listen, test,
>>>buy audio devices...
>>>Guys like Mr. Krueger sometime tell you that you could have the same
>>>pleasure with 100 times less money, they say that most of "your" audio
>>>is nothing but phantasm for rich people. You cannot accept such simplist
>>>explanations and I understand that.
>>>Audio is a very, very young hobby maximum 70 - 60 years old and it has
>>>already all the gallery of "usual hobbyist characters".
>>>I understand and I like that.
>>>So now you can understand my disappointed surprise when I read the
>>>following coming from gentlemen like you. I sincerely think that you are
>>>the Krooborgs of the wine.
>>
>>
>> You know, just because you're French doesn't mean that we can assume
>> that you know **** about wine.
>>
>> After all, the French have more than their share of **** wine. Plus,
>> they have their share of con men as well (as was proven fairly
>> recently when . Fortunately, the French government usually takes
>> pretty swift action, as François and Philippe Marion found out not too
>> long ago).
>>
>> At least your vintners found out that a preponderance of their
>> "corked" wines didn't actually have anything to do with the cork, but
>> with the polychloroanisoles used in preserving the barrels. We don't
>> really have that problem here in the states.
>>
>>
>>>On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 00:14:05 +0200, Lionel >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>dave weil wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 20:01:03 +0100, Langis > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>George M. Middius > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Screwcaps are the future of fine wine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>If anybody thinks caps are cheap, note that corks are cheaper!
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>However, the supply of corks is not assured. This is the main reason
>>>>>>>for the gradual switchover to screwcaps and composite corks, although
>>>>>>>the Germans are probably employing their typical adherance to logic
>>>>>>>and science.
>>
>>
>You know what we use to say about the culture here ?
>It is like the jam...
>Save your erudition for your customers/covers...
>Just want to lead your attention that you are playing here above the
>real "Krooborg" role. This was obviously the object of the initial
>thread. :o)

You aren't too bright, are you?

But just wait until you have a few more cases like that of Jean-Marie
Guffens and you'll see the French turning to synthetic corks just like
they did stainless steel fermentation vats. They didn't like *those*
either, but quite a few vintners are using them as well.

Note that noting that someone is doing something isn't akin to
advocating it. I have a sentimental view of real corks as well. But it
doesn't bother me to open a screwtop either, or remove a synthetic
cork. The main thing that matters is the wine itself.

In that respect, wine is a lot like audio for me, unlike guys like
Arnold, who care more about the hardware.

[Lionel]

Marc Phillips wrote:

> dave said:
>
>
>>You know, just because you're French doesn't mean that we can assume
>>that you know **** about wine.
>>
>>After all, the French have more than their share of **** wine. Plus,
>>they have their share of con men as well (as was proven fairly
>>recently when . Fortunately, the French government usually takes
>>pretty swift action, as François and Philippe Marion found out not too
>>long ago).
>>
>>At least your vintners found out that a preponderance of their
>>"corked" wines didn't actually have anything to do with the cork, but
>>with the polychloroanisoles used in preserving the barrels. We don't
>>really have that problem here in the states.
>
>
> The French have been in denial about wine for the last thirty years, when the
> world's best started coming out of Napa and Sonoma and Mendocino. Plus, with
> their recent weather mishaps, we probably should steer clear of their stuff for
> the next three or four years. Tough break.
>
> Boon
>
>
;-)

[Lionel]

dave weil wrote:

> The main thing that matters is the wine itself.

>In that respect, wine is a lot like audio for me, unlike guys like
>Arnold, who care more about the hardware.

I prefer the above modesty.
We could spend long time to discuss about grapes, caves, cork, and
finally wine. My english is not good enough to be sure to transmit you
what I exactly think, in one word it would be vain.
I've already spent a lot of time in vineyard, caves...
I have understood that you are living in Nashville, right ?
Your first conversation was very indecent for me, a little bit like if I
was trying to teach you about clubs, rock'n'roll and country music !
Do you see what I mean ?

[dave weil]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:12:41 +0200, Lionel >
wrote:

>dave weil wrote:
>
>> The main thing that matters is the wine itself.
>
>>In that respect, wine is a lot like audio for me, unlike guys like
>>Arnold, who care more about the hardware.
>
>I prefer the above modesty.
>We could spend long time to discuss about grapes, caves, cork, and
>finally wine. My english is not good enough to be sure to transmit you
>what I exactly think, in one word it would be vain.
>I've already spent a lot of time in vineyard, caves...
>I have understood that you are living in Nashville, right ?

I have also lived in the Mosel region.

<shrug>

>Your first conversation was very indecent for me, a little bit like if I
> was trying to teach you about clubs, rock'n'roll and country music !
>Do you see what I mean ?

I'm always willing to learn about music. I don't know everything, you
know. That doesn't mean that I won't argue about it though.

[Lionel]

dave weil wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 00:12:41 +0200, Lionel >
> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The main thing that matters is the wine itself.
>>
>>>In that respect, wine is a lot like audio for me, unlike guys like
>>>Arnold, who care more about the hardware.
>>
>>I prefer the above modesty.
>>We could spend long time to discuss about grapes, caves, cork, and
>>finally wine. My english is not good enough to be sure to transmit you
>>what I exactly think, in one word it would be vain.
>>I've already spent a lot of time in vineyard, caves...
>>I have understood that you are living in Nashville, right ?
>
>
> I have also lived in the Mosel region.
>
I was just on the other side of Rhin river : Gueberschwihr...

> <shrug>

<?>

>
>>Your first conversation was very indecent for me, a little bit like if I
>> was trying to teach you about clubs, rock'n'roll and country music !
>>Do you see what I mean ?
>
>
> I'm always willing to learn about music. I don't know everything, you
> know. That doesn't mean that I won't argue about it though.

Remember me Krueger statements !

<Ouille>