The Pathetic State Of High End Audio In Some People's Minds [Archive]

Lionel Chapuis

September 11th 03, 03:19 PM

Arny Krueger a écrit :
> "trotsky" > wrote in message
> nk.net
>
>>Arny Krueger wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Bruce Abrams" wrote in message
>>>news:9Ov7b.297825$cF.92706@rwcrnsc53 from rec.audio.high-end
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I've often thought that if we eliminated (primarily because they've
>>>>become too predictable and boring) the discussions that invariably
>>>>devolve into DBT debates, ie. cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers,
>
> green pens,
>
>>>>etc., there would be precious few threads worth following.
>
>
>>>I think what this poor sap is really saying is: If we eliminate
>
> discussions
>
>>>of cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers, green pens, etc., there would
>
> be
>
>>>precious little in audio that interests him.
>
>
>>>Helllooo! Anybody home?
>
>
>>>I thought that the audio hobby was about the search for realistic
>>>(or at least emotionally-rewarding) reproduction of music, drama
>>>and current events.
>
>
>>>OK, so it has been conclusively found that differences in cables,
>>>equipment
>>>"burn-in", amplifiers, digital audio players, green pens etc., are
>>>mostly irrelevant to about the search for realistic reproduction of
>>>music, drama and current events. So what?
>
>
>>>It's not like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers,
>>>digital audio players, green pens etc., are all there is in audio,
>>>is it?
>
>
>>Naturally, it's this level of stupidity that has made Bose a billion
>>dollar business.
>
>
> I agree that many sensible, pragmatic people look at the high end's
> obsession with trivia like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in", magic
> amplifiers that glow in the dark, digital audio players with blue lights,
> green pens etc. and run right out and buy Bose and stuff like it.
>
> They look at intellectually repulsive ragazines like TAS & SP and decide
> that they want an audio system that lets them enjoy listening to music, not
> a ringside seat at an exorcism.
>
>
Everybody for the chorus:

Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
Arny B. Goode

http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv

Arny Krueger

September 11th 03, 03:26 PM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net

> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> "trotsky" wrote in message
>> nk.net

>>> Naturally, it's this level of stupidity that has made Bose a billion
>>> dollar business.

>> I agree that many sensible, pragmatic people look at the high end's
>> obsession with trivia like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in",
magic
>> amplifiers that glow in the dark, digital audio players with blue
>> lights, green pens etc. and run right out and buy Bose and stuff
>> like it.

>> They look at intellectually repulsive ragazines like TAS & SP and
>> decide that they want an audio system that lets them enjoy listening
>> to music, not a ringside seat at an exorcism.

> You obviously have it all figured out, Kruegs.

Thank you.

>Why aren't you out there preaching the gospel?

You don't feel *evangelized*?

;-)

> All you've got is your really bad looking
> website, with which you call yourself a "web publisher",

Actually, I have two web sites. One is a little plainer than the other, but
I'm about content, not glitz.

> but the fact
> remains that your only way to make a living is buy selling knockoff
> computers to your church congregation.

That's not my marketing plan or fact, but for the purpose of friendly
discussion let's say that it was. Now compare that alleged plan which you
admit is in fact making me a living, with your plan which involves making an
idiot out of yourself by failing to hear a difference between different in
audio products you previously said was easy and obvious to hear, welshing on
a bet and getting fired from AFAIK the only audio job you ever had.

Now Singh you're trying to palm off these sad little overpriced MDF
squawk-boxes with a glitzy web site written in a new dialect of English I
call Singhlish.

Singhlish involves applying Bose 901 technology to written word.

As Bob Morein conclusively proved Singh, you've repeatedly used at least 9
words to do the job of 1 while obfuscating any responsibility you have for
standing behind the reliability of your product. This compares favorably
with the ability of the 9 drivers in a Bose 901 to obfuscate the sound of
music where 1 driver would probably do a clearer, better job.

>Thus any time you criticize
> anybody in the trenches making a living in the audio business you are
> being completely phony and disingenuous, because you lack the mental
> wherewithal to do so yourself, and instead criticize others' efforts
> like a little bitch.

Where Singh is it written that I criticize *anybody* in the audio business
making a living?

BTW Singh, are you saying that you are just *anybody*? I thought you want us
to believe that you are not just *anybody* but someone *special*.

Don't I say enough nice things on RAO about audio gear that is IMO & IME
credible and useful?

How many pieces of audio gear have I praised and recommended just this week?

..
..

Didn't I start out saying nice things about your new web site, Singh? Isn't
I true that I started revealing my critical opinions only after you
gratuitously attacked my family?

..
..

Heck Singh, this current fuss started when I *agreed* with you!

> Don't you have any explanation for your exceptionally poor behavior?

What poor behavior would that be Singh? Would that poor behavior be bending
over backward to agree with you when you finally said something that
actually made sense? How many years before this happens again?

Shouldn't I capitalize on the rare occasion I can actually agree with you,
Singh? Isn't doing nice things for you enemies a Christian thing to do?
I'll bet you didn't even notice...

dave weil

September 11th 03, 03:39 PM

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:26:57 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>Didn't I start out saying nice things about your new web site, Singh? Isn't
>I true that I started revealing my critical opinions only after you
>gratuitously attacked my family?

So, basically you were lying.

Figures.

Lionel Chapuis

September 11th 03, 03:48 PM

George M. Middius a écrit :

>
> Bobo said:
>
>
>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no technical
>>standards at all.
>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>
>
> Tell us again how Krooger is "a dangerous opponent". Your exact
> words:
>
>
>>One could argue with Krueger for days, and he'll come back with charts,
>>figures, tables, and wav samples.
>>He is a dangerous opponent.
>
>
> With an opinion like that, Bobo, you make yourself a laughingstock.
> It's ridiculous for you to pontificate about what should or
> shouldn't be considered "high end" when you can't tell Krooger from
> a human being.
>
>
Middious I would like to remember you that yesterday you was gently
speaking about litterature with "Bobo", smoking cigars, drinking Cognac.
Have you well slept ?
Did you take your drugs this morning ?

trotsky

September 11th 03, 03:54 PM

dave weil wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:26:57 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:
>
>
> >Didn't I start out saying nice things about your new web site, Singh?
> Isn't
> >I true that I started revealing my critical opinions only after you
> >gratuitously attacked my family?
>
>
> So, basically you were lying.
>
> Figures.

Remember, how can you tell when Arny is lying?

The lights on his modem are blinking.

Arny Krueger

September 11th 03, 04:04 PM

"dave weil" > wrote in message

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:26:57 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
> wrote:
>
>> Didn't I start out saying nice things about your new web site,
>> Singh? Isn't I true that I started revealing my critical opinions
>> only after you gratuitously attacked my family?

> So, basically you were lying.

> Figures.

As usual Weil, you're fact-challenged.

Quote my first post on the subject if you dare.

Quote all of them, if you wish.

Try to find something I said that gives the lie to something else I said.

dave weil

September 11th 03, 04:58 PM

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:04:34 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

>"dave weil" > wrote in message

>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:26:57 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't I start out saying nice things about your new web site,
>>> Singh? Isn't I true that I started revealing my critical opinions
>>> only after you gratuitously attacked my family?
>
>> So, basically you were lying.
>
>> Figures.
>
>As usual Weil, you're fact-challenged.
>
>Quote my first post on the subject if you dare.
>
>Quote all of them, if you wish.
>
>Try to find something I said that gives the lie to something else I said.

Read what you wrote above and tell me you weren't lying when you
started saying nice things and then decided not to withhold
information and/or changed your tune regarding his new web site.

trotsky

September 11th 03, 05:11 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
> >Arny Krueger wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net
>
> [snip]
> Thus any time you criticize
>
> >anybody in the trenches making a living in the audio business you are
> >being completely phony and disingenuous, because you lack the mental
> >wherewithal to do so yourself, and instead criticize others' efforts
> >like a little bitch.
>
>
> trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no technical
> standards at all.
> Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.

Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
legal system, we can.

trotsky

September 11th 03, 06:57 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net
>
>
> >Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>
> >>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net
>
>
> >>>Naturally, it's this level of stupidity that has made Bose a billion
> >>>dollar business.
>
>
> >>I agree that many sensible, pragmatic people look at the high end's
> >>obsession with trivia like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in",
>
> magic
>
> >>amplifiers that glow in the dark, digital audio players with blue
> >>lights, green pens etc. and run right out and buy Bose and stuff
> >>like it.
>
>
> >>They look at intellectually repulsive ragazines like TAS & SP and
> >>decide that they want an audio system that lets them enjoy listening
> >>to music, not a ringside seat at an exorcism.
>
>
> >You obviously have it all figured out, Kruegs.
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> >Why aren't you out there preaching the gospel?
>
>
> You don't feel *evangelized*?
>
> ;-)

So at your house "evangelized" means "having feces flung at you as if
from a monkey"?

>
>
> >All you've got is your really bad looking
> >website, with which you call yourself a "web publisher",
>
>
> Actually, I have two web sites. One is a little plainer than the
> other, but
> I'm about content, not glitz.

And are you actually listed as a not for profit group, or did it just
turn out that way?

>
>
>
> >but the fact
> >remains that your only way to make a living is buy selling knockoff
> >computers to your church congregation.
>
>
> That's not my marketing plan or fact, but for the purpose of friendly
> discussion let's say that it was. Now compare that alleged plan which you
> admit is in fact making me a living, with your plan which involves
> making an
> idiot out of yourself by failing to hear a difference between different in
> audio products you previously said was easy and obvious to hear,

In what ways are those two comparable, and how is referring to me as an
"idiot" and example of a "friendly discussion"? As ever, words fail to
describe just how ****ed up you are, Kruegs.

> welshing on
> a bet and getting fired from AFAIK the only audio job you ever had.
>
> Now Singh you're trying to palm off these sad little overpriced MDF
> squawk-boxes with a glitzy web site written in a new dialect of English I
> call Singhlish.

And the Christian love continues.

>
>
> Singhlish involves applying Bose 901 technology to written word.
>
> As Bob Morein conclusively proved Singh, you've repeatedly used at least 9
> words to do the job of 1 while obfuscating any responsibility you have for
> standing behind the reliability of your product. This compares favorably
> with the ability of the 9 drivers in a Bose 901 to obfuscate the sound of
> music where 1 driver would probably do a clearer, better job.

Sure, my use of the language could only hope to come close to the
quality of your "Engineer's Prayer". Again, words fail to describe how
****ed in the head you really are.

>
>
>
> >Thus any time you criticize
> >anybody in the trenches making a living in the audio business you are
> >being completely phony and disingenuous, because you lack the mental
> >wherewithal to do so yourself, and instead criticize others' efforts
> >like a little bitch.
>
>
> Where Singh is it written that I criticize *anybody* in the audio business
> making a living?

Let's see, if we do a Google Groups search on your name and "snake oil"
how many hits will come up? Are you on crack? (No, I'm not talking
about your wife.)

>
>
> BTW Singh, are you saying that you are just *anybody*? I thought you
> want us
> to believe that you are not just *anybody* but someone *special*.

You're having problems with the English language again, Kruegs.

>
>
> Don't I say enough nice things on RAO about audio gear that is IMO & IME
> credible and useful?

You are a purveyor of trash, Arny. In my opinion, of course.

>
>
> How many pieces of audio gear have I praised and recommended just this
> week?

Who gives a ****?

>
>
> .
> .
>
> Didn't I start out saying nice things about your new web site, Singh?
> Isn't
> I true that I started revealing my critical opinions only after you
> gratuitously attacked my family?

That's revisionist history, Arny. And why is one connected to the
other? Do you only deal in facts on a provisional basis, and those
provisions aren't meant, you go straight to the lies? You just made
yourself look very bad here, Krueger.

>
>
> .
> .
>
>
> Heck Singh, this current fuss started when I *agreed* with you!

That's a cause for alarm right there. I would appreciate it, though, if
you could spell out for the group which were the lies that you told
about me, because I didn't meet your provisional requirements about your
family. Be as specific as possible, please.

>
>
>
> >Don't you have any explanation for your exceptionally poor behavior?
>
>
> What poor behavior would that be Singh?

The lies outlined above.

> Would that poor behavior be bending
> over backward to agree with you when you finally said something that
> actually made sense? How many years before this happens again?

Before you stop lying, you mean?

>
>
> Shouldn't I capitalize on the rare occasion I can actually agree with you,
> Singh? Isn't doing nice things for you enemies a Christian thing to do?
> I'll bet you didn't even notice...

Telling the truth is non-denominational, Kruegs. Nice try, though. Do
you specifically worship Satan or not?

George M. Middius

September 11th 03, 06:59 PM

trotsky said:

> > >>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no
> > >>technical standards at all.
> > >>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.

> > >Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
> > >legal system, we can.

> > Those are clearly opinions.

> In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.

Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:

1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.

2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.

3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.

Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?

Do you need to go on a marble hunt?

> Here's another opinion: rao
> isn't much of a high horse.

There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
if we didn't already know he's insane. What's your excuse?

> > You lose.
> > Again.™

Lack of response noted.

> > If you want my advice, you should tear into Bobo for the sugar
> > coating he gave the Krooger Problem.

> And if you want my advice, you should tear into Bob for being too
> gutless to show us his products--his screenplays.

What does that have to do with audio? You're the one who requested
comments from the group.

Here's another suggestion: Cut short all the discussions about the
speakers themselves by saying you only wanted comments on the Web
site. After all, it's the market of audio consumers who will decide
if your speakers are what they want. Predictions and
prognostications of market performance are just another form of
thought experiment that the 'borgs worship, not much different from
their other predictions that your speakers will sound lame.

trotsky

September 11th 03, 07:22 PM

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no
>>>>>technical standards at all.
>>>>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>>
>
>>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
>>>>legal system, we can.
>>>
>
>>>Those are clearly opinions.
>>
>
>
>>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
>
>
> Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
> matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
> opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
> us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
>
> 1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
>
> 2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
>
> 3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>
> Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?

George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
off a painful scab is interesting. If the subject line of this thread
isn't slander, I don't know what is. But please, if you can tell us
more about your credentials as a lawyer, English teacher, or whatever,
please do.

> Do you need to go on a marble hunt?

So you can find the rest of yours, you mean? You're on your own on that
one.

>>Here's another opinion: rao
>>isn't much of a high horse.
>
>
> There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
> nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
> if we didn't already know he's insane. What's your excuse?

I'm insane too. I'm in the audio biz, so that's by definition.

>>>You lose.
>>>Again.™
>>
>
> Lack of response noted.

To your plagiarizing weil's characteristic response? What am I supposed
to say? Somebody that has respect for the English language and that
condones plagiarism has some serious issues to sort through.

>>>If you want my advice, you should tear into Bobo for the sugar
>>>coating he gave the Krooger Problem.
>>
>
>
>>And if you want my advice, you should tear into Bob for being too
>>gutless to show us his products--his screenplays.
>
>
> What does that have to do with audio? You're the one who requested
> comments from the group.

Oh, right, you're the on topic police. How could I have missed that?

> Here's another suggestion: Cut short all the discussions about the
> speakers themselves by saying you only wanted comments on the Web
> site. After all, it's the market of audio consumers who will decide
> if your speakers are what they want. Predictions and
> prognostications of market performance are just another form of
> thought experiment that the 'borgs worship, not much different from
> their other predictions that your speakers will sound lame.

This last bit is well stated, but you have to know I only expected the
worst when I posted here. What other choices are there? As it is, I
got quite a bit of useful feedback from quite a few contributors, for
which I feel lucky. Now I'm just trying to mop the floor with the rest
of the turds, mostly just for old time's sake.

George M. Middius

September 11th 03, 07:28 PM

trotsky flubs his simple assignment.

> >>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
> >>>>legal system, we can.
> >>>
> >
> >>>Those are clearly opinions.
> >>
> >
> >
> >>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
> > matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
> > opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
> > us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
> >
> > 1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
> >
> > 2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
> >
> > 3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
> >
> > Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>
>
> George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
> off a painful scab is interesting.

Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?

> If the subject line of this thread
> isn't slander, I don't know what is.

Changing the subject again.

> But please, if you can tell us
> more about your credentials as a lawyer, English teacher, or whatever,
> please do.

Random nonsequitur.

Hey, here's a deal: I'll trade you my own personal blatherskite
("Lionel") for Bobo and fake-Bobo. Deal?

dave weil

September 11th 03, 07:37 PM

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:22:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>> trotsky said:
>>
>>
>>>>>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no
>>>>>>technical standards at all.
>>>>>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
>>>>>legal system, we can.
>>>>
>>
>>>>Those are clearly opinions.
>>>
>>
>>
>>>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
>>
>>
>> Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
>> matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
>> opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
>> us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
>>
>> 1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
>>
>> 2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
>>
>> 3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>
>> Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>
>
>George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
>off a painful scab is interesting. If the subject line of this thread
>isn't slander, I don't know what is.

Wouldn't it be libel?

MiNE 109

September 11th 03, 07:38 PM

In article >,
dave weil > wrote:

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:59:58 -0400, George M. Middius
> > wrote:
>
> >> Here's another opinion: rao
> >> isn't much of a high horse.
> >
> >There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
> >nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
> >if we didn't already know he's insane.
>
> I am not. I'm just "off-center".
>
> But thanks for the vote of confidence.
>
> Van Gogh, I'm not.

I thought I was incomprehensible.

Stephen

Lionel Chapuis

September 11th 03, 07:47 PM

George M. Middius a écrit :
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no
>>>>>technical standards at all.
>>>>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>
>
>>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
>>>>legal system, we can.
>
>
>>>Those are clearly opinions.
>
>
>
>>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
>
>
> Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
> matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
> opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
> us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
>
> 1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
>
> 2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
>
> 3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>
> Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>
>
> Do you need to go on a marble hunt?
>
>
>>Here's another opinion: rao
>>isn't much of a high horse.
>
>
> There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
> nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
> if we didn't already know he's insane. What's your excuse?
>
>
>
>>>You lose.
>>>Again.™
>
>
> Lack of response noted.
>
>
>
>>>If you want my advice, you should tear into Bobo for the sugar
>>>coating he gave the Krooger Problem.
>
>
>
>>And if you want my advice, you should tear into Bob for being too
>>gutless to show us his products--his screenplays.
>
>
> What does that have to do with audio? You're the one who requested
> comments from the group.
>
> Here's another suggestion: Cut short all the discussions about the
> speakers themselves by saying you only wanted comments on the Web
> site. After all, it's the market of audio consumers who will decide
> if your speakers are what they want. Predictions and
> prognostications of market performance are just another form of
> thought experiment that the 'borgs worship, not much different from
> their other predictions that your speakers will sound lame.
>
>
>
Who is insane Middious ?
I hope you don't speak of me ?
I am doing the same job you use to do on RAO, nothing really different !
I do that since about 3 weeks you do that since 7 years !
Who is insane Middious ? In the last 3 days you have had 2 friends they
are now 2 enemies ! Are you really different from Krueger ?

With facts and figures can you explain to everybody what are the
differences between me and you.
I already told you that Middious, Arnold Krueger can justify his daily
presence on RAO, you cannot !
Arnold Krueger has a name and a face, you are nothing but an ectoplasm.
Arnold Krueger has a wife, a daughter, a church, a past, a futur... all
these small things which make a real life. What about you, Georgie, does
anybody on RAO can say anything about your life ?
You are a forgery Middious. Not a forgery like Brian L. McCarty but a
pathetic forgery of a human being.
If you want that I stop and leave let me have an answer to the above...
I guess I will stay a little bit longer because I'm sure you cannot !
*COWARD* !

Lionel Chapuis

September 11th 03, 07:47 PM

dave weil a écrit :

> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:59:58 -0400, George M. Middius
> > wrote:
>
>
>>>Here's another opinion: rao
>>>isn't much of a high horse.
>>
>>There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
>>nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
>>if we didn't already know he's insane.
>
>
> I am not. I'm just "off-center".
>
> But thanks for the vote of confidence.
>
> Van Gogh, I'm not.

Dave "Ponce Pilate" Weil

George M. Middius

September 11th 03, 07:49 PM

MiNE 109 said:

> > >There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
> > >nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
> > >if we didn't already know he's insane.
> >
> > I am not. I'm just "off-center".
> >
> > But thanks for the vote of confidence.
> >
> > Van Gogh, I'm not.
>
> I thought I was incomprehensible.

I thought you were prissy.

Lionel Chapuis

September 11th 03, 08:08 PM

You should be working Trosky.

You are at the head of a small businness you should work at least 10 to
12 hours a day.
Everybody know that on RAO, this explains why everybody know that your
Web site, your speakers, your futur are nothing but phantasms.

Don't waste your time you should start working hard perhaps it's not
already to late !

trotsky

September 11th 03, 08:41 PM

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky flubs his simple assignment.
>
>
>>>>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
>>>>>>legal system, we can.
>>>>>
>>>>>Those are clearly opinions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
>>>matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
>>>opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
>>>us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
>>>
>>>1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
>>>
>>>2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
>>>
>>>3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>
>>>Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>>
>>
>>George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
>>off a painful scab is interesting.
>
>
> Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>
>
>>If the subject line of this thread
>>isn't slander, I don't know what is.
>
>
> Changing the subject again.

Changing the subject? What's the first statement from me in this post,
George? I really can't figure you out--sometimes you come off as just
plain stupid. Bob Morion is slandering my company. You're mentally
masturbating about it. Case closed.

>>But please, if you can tell us
>>more about your credentials as a lawyer, English teacher, or whatever,
>>please do.
>
>
> Random nonsequitur.
>
>
> Hey, here's a deal: I'll trade you my own personal blatherskite
> ("Lionel") for Bobo and fake-Bobo. Deal?

I don't make deals.

trotsky

September 11th 03, 08:41 PM

dave weil wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:22:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>George M. Middius wrote:
>>
>>>trotsky said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no
>>>>>>>technical standards at all.
>>>>>>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
>>>>>>legal system, we can.
>>>>>
>>>>>Those are clearly opinions.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
>>>matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
>>>opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
>>>us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
>>>
>>>1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
>>>
>>>2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
>>>
>>>3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>
>>>Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>>
>>
>>George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
>>off a painful scab is interesting. If the subject line of this thread
>>isn't slander, I don't know what is.
>
>
> Wouldn't it be libel?

Which is the one that appears in print?

dave weil

September 11th 03, 08:47 PM

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:41:51 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:22:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>George M. Middius wrote:
>>>
>>>>trotsky said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no
>>>>>>>>technical standards at all.
>>>>>>>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
>>>>>>>legal system, we can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Those are clearly opinions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In your opinion. Which you stated as fact.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, you lose. Whether a statement is an opinion or a fact is a
>>>>matter of fact, not opinion. It's a fact that Bobo's statements are
>>>>opinions. But if you truly disagree, why don't you explicitly tell
>>>>us which of his statements are not opinions. Here they are again:
>>>>
>>>>1. trotsky, you are phony and disingenous.
>>>>
>>>>2. Your "company" has no technical standards at all.
>>>>
>>>>3. Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>>>>
>>>>Which one (or ones) are the non-opinions?
>>>
>>>
>>>George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
>>>off a painful scab is interesting. If the subject line of this thread
>>>isn't slander, I don't know what is.
>>
>>
>> Wouldn't it be libel?
>
>
>Which is the one that appears in print?

Libel.

Lionel Chapuis

September 11th 03, 08:51 PM

trotsky a écrit :
>
>
> George M. Middius wrote:

>> Hey, here's a deal: I'll trade you my own personal blatherskite
>> ("Lionel") for Bobo and fake-Bobo. Deal?
>
>
>
> I don't make deals.
>
>
>
I don't want you.
You remember me my life ! Too much !
LOL !

trotsky

September 11th 03, 09:24 PM

George M. Middius wrote:
>
> trotsky said:
>
>
>>>Wouldn't it be libel?
>>
>
>
>>Which is the one that appears in print?
>
>
> God, are you stupid.

Good luck finding those marbles. And my bad for discussing something on
a discussion group.

trotsky

September 11th 03, 09:26 PM

dave weil wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:41:51 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>dave weil wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:22:46 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>>>>George, you're interesting, but only interesting in the way that peeling
>>>>off a painful scab is interesting. If the subject line of this thread
>>>>isn't slander, I don't know what is.
>>>
>>>
>>>Wouldn't it be libel?
>>
>>
>>Which is the one that appears in print?
>
>
> Libel.

Okay, we'll go with that then. You do realize that just by discussing
this George will accuse you of going against his slander=opinions
hypothesis, right?

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 11th 03, 11:53 PM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net...

..
>
>
> Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
> legal system, we can.
>

hah! Like he really has some assets to protect.
The guy's been out of work for thirty years.

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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 12:42 AM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Bob Morein wrote:
>
> > "trotsky" wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >
> > >Arny Krueger wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>"trotsky" wrote in message
> > nk.net
> >
> > [snip]
> > Thus any time you criticize
> >
> > >anybody in the trenches making a living in the audio business you are
> > >being completely phony and disingenuous, because you lack the mental
> > >wherewithal to do so yourself, and instead criticize others' efforts
> > >like a little bitch.
> >
> >
> > trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no technical
> > standards at all.
> > Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
>
>
> Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
> legal system, we can.
>
Go ahead. Try me.
I'll say it again. You are phony and disingenous.

George M. Middius

September 12th 03, 12:59 AM

Marc Phillips said:

> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
> college.

Actually, Bobo is 50. And he lives in his parents' basement.

MiNE 109

September 12th 03, 01:03 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius > wrote:

> MiNE 109 said:
>
> > > >There's also another RAO regular who utters incomprehensible
> > > >nonsequiturs with alarming frequency. That is, we might be alarmed
> > > >if we didn't already know he's insane.
> > >
> > > I am not. I'm just "off-center".
> > >
> > > But thanks for the vote of confidence.
> > >
> > > Van Gogh, I'm not.
> >
> > I thought I was incomprehensible.
>
> I thought you were prissy.

Moi? If I were prissy could I post this?:

http://tinyurl.com/n2jb

Stephen

Marc Phillips

September 12th 03, 01:08 AM

Mr. Middius said:

>Marc Phillips said:
>
>> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
>> college.
>
>Actually, Bobo is 50. And he lives in his parents' basement.

In other words, copious amounts of free time.

Boon

George M. Middius

September 12th 03, 01:12 AM

MiNE 109 said:

> > > I thought I was incomprehensible.
> >
> > I thought you were prissy.
>
> Moi? If I were prissy could I post this?:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/n2jb

Gregipus is the RAO's Foremost Auditor of Prissiness, so I'll leave
the judgment to him.

George M. Middius

September 12th 03, 01:13 AM

Marc Phillips said:

> >Actually, Bobo is 50. And he lives in his parents' basement.
>
> In other words, copious amounts of free time.

Unless he spends 10 hours a day in a hazy heroin high. We just don't
know, do we?

trotsky

September 12th 03, 03:12 AM

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
> >And if you want my advice, you should tear into Bob for being too
> >gutless to show us his products--his screenplays.
> >
>
>
> The screen adaptatioin for "Attack of the Rockoids".
>

No doubt--the whole six part series.

trotsky

September 12th 03, 03:14 AM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
> >Bob Morein wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >>
> >>
> >>>Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net
> >>
> >>[snip]
> >>Thus any time you criticize
> >>
> >>
> >>>anybody in the trenches making a living in the audio business you are
> >>>being completely phony and disingenuous, because you lack the mental
> >>>wherewithal to do so yourself, and instead criticize others' efforts
> >>>like a little bitch.
> >>
> >>
> >>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no technical
> >>standards at all.
> >>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
> >
> >
> >Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
> >legal system, we can.
> >
>
> Go ahead. Try me.
> I'll say it again. You are phony and disingenous.

That's why you'll never be a good writer, Bob. I as genuine a guy as
you'll ever meet. I can also read people like a book, while you're fast
proving yourself an illiterate in this regard.

trotsky

September 12th 03, 03:16 AM

Marc Phillips wrote:

> Bob Morein said:
>
>
> >"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> >>Bob Morein wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net
> >>>
> >>>[snip]
> >>>Thus any time you criticize
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>anybody in the trenches making a living in the audio business you are
> >>>>being completely phony and disingenuous, because you lack the mental
> >>>>wherewithal to do so yourself, and instead criticize others' efforts
> >>>>like a little bitch.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>trotsky, you are phony and disingenous. Your "company" has no technical
> >>>standards at all.
> >>>Indeed, you make a mockery of the high end.
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob, you are getting slanderous here. If we need to take this to the
> >>legal system, we can.
> >>
> >
> >Go ahead. Try me.
> >I'll say it again. You are phony and disingenous.
>
>
> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
> college.

I thought he said he was 51, which makes it that much worse. Bob's
turning out to be cheesier than a bad case of smegma.

trotsky

September 12th 03, 03:18 AM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> MiNE 109 said:
>
>
> >>>I thought I was incomprehensible.
> >>
> >>I thought you were prissy.
> >
> > Moi? If I were prissy could I post this?:
> >
> >http://tinyurl.com/n2jb
>
>
> Gregipus is the RAO's Foremost Auditor of Prissiness, so I'll leave
> the judgment to him.

Was that a David Letterman reference? "Hey Paul, do you like the RAO?"

George M. Middius

September 12th 03, 03:40 AM

trotsky said:

> > >>I thought you were prissy.
> > >
> > > Moi? If I were prissy could I post this?:
> > >
> > >http://tinyurl.com/n2jb
> >
> >
> > Gregipus is the RAO's Foremost Auditor of Prissiness, so I'll leave
> > the judgment to him.

> Was that a David Letterman reference? "Hey Paul, do you like the RAO?"

No, dummy -- it was a trotsky reference. Christ, you are stupid.

http://tinyurl.com/n2yq

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 12th 03, 04:03 AM

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
>
> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
> college.
>
Actually, he is 51.

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 04:38 AM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Marc Phillips wrote:
>
[snip]
>
>
> I thought he said he was 51, which makes it that much worse. Bob's
> turning out to be cheesier than a bad case of smegma.
>
I'll sue! I'll sue!

Trotsky, you are a fraud.
FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD!

Now go ahead and sue me, but you won't have any money left for a new
rechargable screwdriver.

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 04:40 AM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Bob Morein wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> That's why you'll never be a good writer, Bob. I as genuine a guy as
> you'll ever meet.

"I as genuine a guy..."?

You 'sho is adroit wit dat keyboard oh yous.

Would you like to try again?

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 04:53 AM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > "trotsky" wrote in message
> > nk.net
> >
[snip]
>
> And the Christian love continues.
>
This could be the only viable marketing strategy for you, Greg.
Sell'em cheap as Gospel sound-reinforcement.

Thuh sound of Christ, Amen. Now I know some of you are going to wonder what
other nonbelievers are saying about these speakers.
Jesus Singhs the Lord's praise with the Power of Singh.
Singh it now, lift your hearts in prayer. Bring Singh into the House of thuh
Lord, Amen.

Let's have some old time Gospel Singhin.
Lordy, turn up the volume of those Singh speakers. Singh, Singh,
owhahwhwhwwha Dadap dadap dadap.. Singh, Singh, owhwhwhwhwha!!! Dadap dadap
dadap. Singh, Singh.....(fade out).

If this doesn't work, then I suggest you try the insurance angle.
Reestablish your factory in a shed with a high flammability quotient.

Would anyone like to start a dead pool for Jupiter Audio?

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 07:39 AM

"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
[snip]
>
> Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> Arny B. Goode
>
> http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv
>
Lionel,
See my comment to Arny on the end of this thread.

Arny and the "accept-all-fraud" high-end are at opposite extremes.

There is no truth in extremes.

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 07:40 AM

"Lionel Chapuis" > wrote in message
...
> You should be working Trosky.
>
> You are at the head of a small businness you should work at least 10 to
> 12 hours a day.
> Everybody know that on RAO, this explains why everybody know that your
> Web site, your speakers, your futur are nothing but phantasms.
>
> Don't waste your time you should start working hard perhaps it's not
> already to late !
>
I think he's already constructed enough stock for all current and future
(=0) customers.

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 08:52 AM

Bob Morein a écrit :

> "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
> [snip]
>
>>Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
>>Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
>>Arny B. Goode
>>
>>http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv
>>
>
> Lionel,
> See my comment to Arny on the end of this thread.
>
> Arny and the "accept-all-fraud" high-end are at opposite extremes.
>
> There is no truth in extremes.
>
>
Thank you Bob.
My english is surely very poor but I've already understood that.
As you have cleverly said perhaps Arnold limits his outrageous behaviour
to audio, to RAO...
You know, *I* know that such impassioned guys are often out of reality
but who care ? Who really care ?
Mr. Krueger has about 65 years, I am 41, I feel for him the same thing
you can feel for parents : patience and indulgence (but not love).
I understand that technical guys like Dave hardly insist to discuss
every points but I cannot stand Middius & Phillips' behaviour. Middius
is a coward, Phillips a loser.

In a way I feel that Arnold attitude is extremly Rock'n'Roll, so...
....Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 09:31 AM

"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
> Bob Morein a écrit :
>
> > "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> > ...
> > [snip]
> >
> >>Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> >>Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> >>Arny B. Goode
> >>
> >>http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv
> >>
> >
> > Lionel,
> > See my comment to Arny on the end of this thread.
> >
> > Arny and the "accept-all-fraud" high-end are at opposite extremes.
> >
> > There is no truth in extremes.
> >
> >
> Thank you Bob.
> My english is surely very poor but I've already understood that.
> As you have cleverly said perhaps Arnold limits his outrageous behaviour
> to audio, to RAO...
> You know, *I* know that such impassioned guys are often out of reality
> but who care ? Who really care ?
> Mr. Krueger has about 65 years, I am 41, I feel for him the same thing
> you can feel for parents : patience and indulgence (but not love).
> I understand that technical guys like Dave hardly insist to discuss
> every points but I cannot stand Middius & Phillips' behaviour. Middius
> is a coward, Phillips a loser.
>
> In a way I feel that Arnold attitude is extremly Rock'n'Roll, so...
> ...Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
>
Have you dialoged with Arny much?
The last time I dialoged him, he believed "all properly operating amplifiers
sound the same."
He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information content.
Thus the fact that I have spent many evenings with a buddy listening to and
comparing the different sonic signatures of "good" amplifiers means nothing
to him.
According to Arny, one MUST have one of his ABX appliances to make amplifier
comparisons. For the finest differences, this would be true, but there are
many "fine" amplifiers, not all, which have differences almost as apparent
as speakers. But he does not realize this, because his economic situation
does not allow him to sample many amplifiers.

But not for speakers; for speakers, he allows that the user can hear
differences without ABX. It is his arbitrary distinction.
He holds the same for DACs, but my experience, and that of others, is quite
the contrary.

Apparently, he was motivated to this area by his observation that there is
much fraud, false claims, and so forth. But then he became like Robspierre.
He kills too much good with the bad. He makes everything level to the extent
which he can detect. But I learned that he hasn't heard very many
amplifiers. He picks a few a a price, and makes them represent the world at
that price. He oversimplifies. He is "Agent Orange"; he defoliates, when one
should just pull weeds.

Rock'n'Roll is good, but then one realizes, he is too extreme, too
"Taliban."

trotsky

September 12th 03, 12:19 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> trotsky said:
>
>
> >>>>I thought you were prissy.
> >>>
> >>>Moi? If I were prissy could I post this?:
> >>>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/n2jb
> >>
> >>
> >>Gregipus is the RAO's Foremost Auditor of Prissiness, so I'll leave
> >>the judgment to him.
>
>
>
> >Was that a David Letterman reference? "Hey Paul, do you like the RAO?"
>
>
>
> No, dummy -- it was a trotsky reference. Christ, you are stupid.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/n2yq
>

You have no idea why you put "the" in the above sentence, do you?

trotsky

September 12th 03, 12:21 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >Marc Phillips wrote:
> >
>
> [snip]
>
> >
> >I thought he said he was 51, which makes it that much worse. Bob's
> >turning out to be cheesier than a bad case of smegma.
> >
>
> I'll sue! I'll sue!
>
> Trotsky, you are a fraud.
> FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD! FRAUD!
>
> Now go ahead and sue me, but you won't have any money left for a new
> rechargable screwdriver.

Bob, why are you afraid to post one of your screenplays?

trotsky

September 12th 03, 12:23 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> ink.net...
>
> >Bob Morein wrote:
> >
>
> [snip]
>
> >That's why you'll never be a good writer, Bob. I as genuine a guy as
> >you'll ever meet.
>
>
> "I as genuine a guy..."?
>
> You 'sho is adroit wit dat keyboard oh yous.
>
> Would you like to try again?

No need to, Bob--the sentiment is still there, despite the typo.
Anytime you're willing to face facts just let me know.

How's the screenplay business these days? Do you have the necessary
credentials to even be in it?

trotsky

September 12th 03, 12:26 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

> "trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
> >Arny Krueger wrote:
> >
> >
> >>"trotsky" wrote in message
> nk.net
> >>
>
> [snip]
>
> >And the Christian love continues.
> >
>
> This could be the only viable marketing strategy for you, Greg.
> Sell'em cheap as Gospel sound-reinforcement.

Christ, Bob, are you so stupid as to not be able to recognize blatant
hypocrisy? I guess not. Take you for example, calling me "fake",
"fraud" and all sorts of other accusations, presumably because you feel
I lack the credentials to be building speakers. But where are your
credentials to be writing screenplays? Did you take a K-Mart quality
script writing class. You and Krueger are complete hypocrites. What new?

Why don't you post one of your screenplays so we can evaluate it? You
got game?

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 12:43 PM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
.net...
> Bob Morein wrote:
>
> > "trotsky" wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >
> > >Arny Krueger wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>"trotsky" wrote in message
> > nk.net
> > >>
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >And the Christian love continues.
> > >
> >
> > This could be the only viable marketing strategy for you, Greg.
> > Sell'em cheap as Gospel sound-reinforcement.
>
>
>
> Christ, Bob, are you so stupid as to not be able to recognize blatant
> hypocrisy? I guess not. Take you for example, calling me "fake",
> "fraud" and all sorts of other accusations, presumably because you feel
> I lack the credentials to be building speakers.

You presume wrong.
You are a fake, a fraud, and a charlatan because you know nothing about the
process of designing speakers.
Your concept of design is that of an ignorant hobbyist, who thinks that
plugging a few numbers into a few equations produces a design of commercial
quality. It does not.
You have added absolutely nothing to the intrinsic cost of the components
you purchase, but the markup is considerable.

Greg, it is true -- no exaggeration -- that I detest you as an individual.
You are a horrible, thieving, lying sonofabitch, a cruel man, with a
disgusting demeanor. I value you like roadkill.

However, I would have let all that pass, if you had actually done an
engineer's work.
But as it happens, you have not, and I will exercise the expression of my
opinion to make sure you fail.

But where are your
> credentials to be writing screenplays? Did you take a K-Mart quality
> script writing class. You and Krueger are complete hypocrites. What new?
>
> Why don't you post one of your screenplays so we can evaluate it? You
> got game?
>
Sorry, Trotsky. You'll have to go by the contest results.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 12th 03, 12:45 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> According to Arny, one MUST have one of his ABX appliances to make
amplifier
> comparisons. For the finest differences, this would be true, but there are
> many "fine" amplifiers, not all, which have differences almost as apparent
> as speakers. But he does not realize this, because his economic situation
> does not allow him to sample many amplifiers.
>

There is also the observation that some people can hear
differences that other people cannot discern.

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 01:17 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...

> Have you dialoged with Arny much?

> The last time I dialoged him, he believed "all properly operating
amplifiers
> sound the same."

That would be a definition of a properly operating amplifier, one that does
not audibly degrade the signals passing through it.

> He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information content.

Completely wrong. In those cases where differences are well known to be
audible, casual observations are fine.

> Thus the fact that I have spent many evenings with a buddy listening to
and
> comparing the different sonic signatures of "good" amplifiers means
nothing
> to him.

It's a story about two friends having fun.

> According to Arny, one MUST have one of his ABX appliances to make
amplifier
> comparisons.

Wrong. Any effective means of doing appropriate tests are fine.

> For the finest differences, this would be true, but there are
> many "fine" amplifiers, not all, which have differences almost as apparent
> as speakers.

Then they are not fine amplfiers, by definition.

> But he does not realize this, because his economic situation
> does not allow him to sample many amplifiers.

Wrong again. I'm not the richest guy in the world, but I've *sampled* many
amplifiers.

> But not for speakers; for speakers, he allows that the user can hear
> differences without ABX.

And phono cartridges, and tape recorders, and microphones and lots of other
stuff.

> It is his arbitrary distinction.

There's nothing arbitrary about it at all. The sensitivity of the human ear
is well known, in terms of common measurements. Show knowlegable people a
frequency response curve and they can tell you whether or not that frequency
response curve is inside or outside the range that people hear as being
different, for example. There's even a nearly 20 year old chart of this from
the JAES posted on my web site. This is, BTW from one of those *refereed*
papers that have been approved for publication by a formal review board in
the AES.

Most speakers have measured frequency response curves that fall outside this
chart, and most amplifiers have measured frequency response that fall inside
this chart. Nothing arbitrary about it at all.

> He holds the same for DACs, but my experience, and that of others, is
quite
> the contrary.

Same basics.

The definition of a properly-operating DAC is one that does not audibly
degrade the sound passing through it.

I've shown at my PCABX web site that there are DACs that process the same
demanding sounds 20 times in sucession without having an audible effect.

> Apparently, he was motivated to this area by his observation that there is
> much fraud, false claims, and so forth.

See the above.

> But then he became like Robspierre.
> He kills too much good with the bad.

I kill or give life to nothing. I merely compete in the marketplace of
ideas.

> He makes everything level to the extent which he can detect.

I have placed the job of detection back in the hands of everyone via my
PCABX web site.

> But I learned that he hasn't heard very many amplifiers.

What's *many*?

I admit it. I've listened to a lot more music than amplfiiers.

> He picks a few a a price, and makes them represent the world at that
price.

So much music to enjoy. Amplifiers are well-known to be a solved problem.

>He oversimplifies.

I'm happy to compete with people in the marketplace for ideas. That some of
them choose to misrepresent my position and activities is to be expected.

> He is "Agent Orange"; he defoliates, when one should just pull weeds.

I pull no weeds. I sell ideas, means for identifying weeds and managing
them. A weed is a flower that is growing where it is not wanted.

> Rock'n'Roll is good, but then one realizes, he is too extreme, too
"Taliban."

Just telling it like it is, and letting other people reach their own
conclusions based on their own personal experiences.

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 01:25 PM

Arny Krueger a écrit :
> "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>Mr. Krueger has about 65 years
>
>
> No way.
>
>
66 ? 67 ? 68 ? 69 ?
I'm sure that Middious would like to say 666 !
Lionel

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 01:45 PM

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...

> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
> college.

Phillips can't even get Morien's age right as many times as it has been
posted, both on Usenet and the Internet.

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm

Sad.

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 01:54 PM

Arny Krueger a écrit :
> "Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>>Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
>>college.
>
>
> Phillips can't even get Morien's age right as many times as it has been
> posted, both on Usenet and the Internet.
>
> http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm
>
> Sad.
>
>
>
>
>
Hey Phillips.
You are really an Oily Target ! LOL !
What a shame !
What a loser !
WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF ! WARF !

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 02:02 PM

"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger a écrit :
> > "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> >>Mr. Krueger has about 65 years
> >
> >
> > No way.
> >
> >
> 66 ? 67 ? 68 ? 69 ?
> I'm sure that Middious would like to say 666 !
> Lionel

You started out at least 6 years high and things got worse from there.

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 02:13 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Have you dialoged with Arny much?
>
> > The last time I dialoged him, he believed "all properly operating
> amplifiers
> > sound the same."
>
> That would be a definition of a properly operating amplifier, one that
does
> not audibly degrade the signals passing through it.
>
> > He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information
content.
>
> Completely wrong. In those cases where differences are well known to be
> audible, casual observations are fine.
>
But Arny, you are making the determination.
Many people believe that many cases exist of audible differences between
amplifiers.

This is where you fall into L. Sprague DeCamp's "right man" syndrome, or
Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer."

You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
definition.
This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
I think that's too strong a statement.
I think I know why you are the way you are.
You have ample brains, but, as fate had it, you didn't get to exploit them
in an academic environment. Had life given you the opportunity to exercise
your intellect to the fullest, you would have had constant intellectual
challenges. You would have learned how to fall into the trap of a belief
system which excludes by definition.

In the first year or two of college, smart kids come into knowledge so fast
they don't know what to do with it. They try to explain everything within a
narrow framework. The word for this is "sophmoric." When challenged by the
best, they are revisit their beliefs many times, finally learning that there
is one constant in our perception of the universe: change.

You're a very smart guy, and it's a shame you missed certain things a
liberal arts education would have provided.
It would have tempered you.

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 02:15 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Among the points I disagree with you:
>
> > 1. Either faulty methodology, or insufficient equipment sampling (which
> > really is part of methodology) have lead you to rather extreme
conclusions
> > regarding the indistinguishability of amplifiers.
>
> There couldn't be anything wrong with your methodology, right Bob?
>
> > 2. Your "dedication" to your beliefs is so excessive, it would be
> virtually
> > impossible to remain detached and impartial. In combination with #1,
this
> is
> > the reason I have called you a bad scientist.
>
> Any scientist who has emotions is a bad scientist in your book, right Bob?
>
I'm afraid so. This might seem unrealistic to you, but the best scientists
preserve a remarkable detachment. They value the process more than the
conclusion.

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 02:41 PM

Bob Morein a écrit :

> "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Bob Morein a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>>
>>>>Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
>>>>Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
>>>>Arny B. Goode
>>>>
>>>>http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv
>>>>
>>>
>>>Lionel,
>>> See my comment to Arny on the end of this thread.
>>>
>>> Arny and the "accept-all-fraud" high-end are at opposite extremes.
>>>
>>> There is no truth in extremes.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Thank you Bob.
>>My english is surely very poor but I've already understood that.
>>As you have cleverly said perhaps Arnold limits his outrageous behaviour
>>to audio, to RAO...
>>You know, *I* know that such impassioned guys are often out of reality
>>but who care ? Who really care ?
>>Mr. Krueger has about 65 years, I am 41, I feel for him the same thing
>>you can feel for parents : patience and indulgence (but not love).
>>I understand that technical guys like Dave hardly insist to discuss
>>every points but I cannot stand Middius & Phillips' behaviour. Middius
>>is a coward, Phillips a loser.
>>
>>In a way I feel that Arnold attitude is extremly Rock'n'Roll, so...
>>...Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
>>
>
> Have you dialoged with Arny much?
> The last time I dialoged him, he believed "all properly operating amplifiers
> sound the same."
> He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information content.
> Thus the fact that I have spent many evenings with a buddy listening to and
> comparing the different sonic signatures of "good" amplifiers means nothing
> to him.
> According to Arny, one MUST have one of his ABX appliances to make amplifier
> comparisons. For the finest differences, this would be true, but there are
> many "fine" amplifiers, not all, which have differences almost as apparent
> as speakers. But he does not realize this, because his economic situation
> does not allow him to sample many amplifiers.
>
> But not for speakers; for speakers, he allows that the user can hear
> differences without ABX. It is his arbitrary distinction.
> He holds the same for DACs, but my experience, and that of others, is quite
> the contrary.
>
> Apparently, he was motivated to this area by his observation that there is
> much fraud, false claims, and so forth. But then he became like Robspierre.
> He kills too much good with the bad. He makes everything level to the extent
> which he can detect. But I learned that he hasn't heard very many
> amplifiers. He picks a few a a price, and makes them represent the world at
> that price. He oversimplifies. He is "Agent Orange"; he defoliates, when one
> should just pull weeds.
>
> Rock'n'Roll is good, but then one realizes, he is too extreme, too
> "Taliban."
>
>

Bob you let the door open to an answer as it's, here, an uncommom
practice here so I need first to thank you for that.

Do you know any serious inustrial compagnies who use to sell products
directly issue from R&D department ? No, obviously !
I have work too much time in industry and I know what are the limits of
a technical man like Mr. Krueger.
It is very dangerous to give to such specialists a full customer request
(cahier des charges) to work on. In a few time all your customers leave
to run to competitors sales office !

But here the context is different there isn't any hierarchical
organization on Usenet to control his excessive behaviour...
You must take him "as it" ! It's difficult ? Oh sure it is ! But...
He pays for that, every days. The doors of RAHE are closed for him. This
is only the visible part of the iceberg because a lot of people refuse
on RAO to exchange with him.
He says he likes to share audio knowledge and I believe that. But I am
sure that his "productivity" is less than 40% of what it could be if his
f*****g behaviour was more temperate.

Now my question is : are Middius and Phillips more contributive to RAO
? My today answer is no and I add they seem to be more toxic !
They just play to increase the general paranoia...
....like me but nothing else !

Lionel

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 02:50 PM

Arny Krueger a écrit :

> "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Arny Krueger a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Mr. Krueger has about 65 years
>>>
>>>
>>>No way.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>66 ? 67 ? 68 ? 69 ?
>>I'm sure that Middious would like to say 666 !
>>Lionel
>
>
> You started out at least 6 years high and things got worse from there.
>
>
It doesn't matter anyway. You are too young to be as sure of you...
Most of the time you seem to have more than 100 ! 100% wastage nothing else.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 03:18 PM

"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message

> This is only the visible part of the iceberg because a lot of people
> refuse on RAO to exchange with him.

It's like RAO really means anything.

> He says he likes to share audio knowledge and I believe that. But I am
> sure that his "productivity" is less than 40% of what it could be if
> his f*****g behaviour was more temperate.

That's the game. The usual list of suspects attack my family and myself
early and often, with the goal that my natural responses to their
reprehensible attacks will cause me to appear to be intemperate. For
example, the first 2-3 years I posted here virtually every post I made had
two personal attacks on me in response, from the same two individuals.

If any kind of semi-rational audio discussion gets started on RAO, the usual
list of suspects dive-bomb the thread into oblivion.

> Now my question is : are Middius and Phillips more contributive to RAO?

> My today answer is no and I add they seem to be more toxic !

Good observation.

> They just play to increase the general paranoia...

Good observation.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 03:24 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> Among the points I disagree with you:
>>
>>> 1. Either faulty methodology, or insufficient equipment sampling
>>> (which really is part of methodology) have lead you to rather
>>> extreme conclusions regarding the indistinguishability of
>>> amplifiers.
>>
>> There couldn't be anything wrong with your methodology, right Bob?
>>
>>> 2. Your "dedication" to your beliefs is so excessive, it would be
>>> virtually impossible to remain detached and impartial. In
>>> combination with #1, this is the reason I have called you a bad
>>> scientist.
>>
>> Any scientist who has emotions is a bad scientist in your book,
>> right Bob?

> I'm afraid so.

Be afraid of that observation, be very afraid.

> This might seem unrealistic to you, but the best
> scientists preserve a remarkable detachment.

That's not right at all, Bob. The best scientists are not detached from
their work. It is very meaningful to them and they are very emotionally
engaged.

> They value the process more than the conclusion.

But that's not because they are detached.

My detachment from the conclusion pretty well explains why I'm willing to
put just about any audio issue up to a DBT or other relevant bias-controlled
reliable test, and let the chips fall where they may.

I'll let you speak for yourself on this issue, Morein.

It is well-known that people often can't be separated from their
non-level-matched, non-time-synched, non-bias controlled listening tests
because they can't live with the results of level-controlled, time-synched,
bias-controlled tests.

George M. Middius

September 12th 03, 04:04 PM

"Lionel Chapuis" (LOL! LOt"S!) said:

> I'm sure that Middious would like to say 666 !

"Lionel", you made a joke. Eet ees good! Hein! Hein! Hein!

George M. Middius

September 12th 03, 04:06 PM

Bobo puts on his Amateur Shrink suit.

> You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
> definition.
> This is why Middius thinks you're insane.

Correction: This is one of dozens of reasons why ***WE*** think
Krooger is insane.

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 04:11 PM

"trotsky" > wrote in message
k.net...
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > "Marc Phillips" wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >
> > >Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his
****ing
> > >college.
> >
> >
> > Phillips can't even get Morien's age right as many times as it has been
> > posted, both on Usenet and the Internet.
> >
> > http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm
> >
> > Sad.
>
>
>
> I'll say. Morion is obviously a nutcase on Usenet, but apparently that
> pales in comparison to his screwball pursuit of litigation. Has he
> tested himself for lead poisoning?

My diagnosis is money poisoning.

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 04:15 PM

Arny Krueger a écrit :
> "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
>
>
>
>>This is only the visible part of the iceberg because a lot of people
>>refuse on RAO to exchange with him.
>
>
> It's like RAO really means anything.
>
>
>>He says he likes to share audio knowledge and I believe that. But I am
>>sure that his "productivity" is less than 40% of what it could be if
>>his f*****g behaviour was more temperate.
>
>
> That's the game. The usual list of suspects attack my family and myself
> early and often, with the goal that my natural responses to their
> reprehensible attacks will cause me to appear to be intemperate. For
> example, the first 2-3 years I posted here virtually every post I made had
> two personal attacks on me in response, from the same two individuals.
>

I cannot discuss a lot of what you write here, because I don't have
enough historic knowledge.
I already know that Phillips is a jerk, an oldish pathetic one. I
already know that Middius is a coward, a pathologic one.
But I am sure that it's not *THE* game. this is your game, this is your
rules but surely no universal rules... I guess you like them because,
daily, you continue to post here.

> If any kind of semi-rational audio discussion gets started on RAO, the usual
> list of suspects dive-bomb the thread into oblivion.
>
>
>> Now my question is : are Middius and Phillips more contributive to RAO?
>
>
>>My today answer is no and I add they seem to be more toxic !
>
>
> Good observation.
>
>
>> They just play to increase the general paranoia...
>
>
> Good observation.
>
>
>

Lionel Chapuis

September 12th 03, 04:33 PM

George M. Middius a écrit :
>
> "Lionel Chapuis" (LOL! LOt"S!) said:
>
>
>>I'm sure that Middious would like to say 666 !
>
>
> "Lionel", you made a joke. Eet ees good! Hein! Hein! Hein!
>
>

"Eet ees good..." did you rob that to Stephen ?

Can you really read me ?
So what about your health today ? You look better than yesterday when it
seemed that you wasn't able to recognize friends from enemies.
Did you take your drugs ? Yes ?
Well I guess that today wouldn't be too painful.
So let us have your show now !

Just one question Middius. Sometime you seem to be an intelligent boy,
with humour. These are interesting talents, but a little bit useless
when there isn't nobody to share them !
You know, I'm right, yes ?

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 05:50 PM

"Lionel Chapuis" > wrote in message
...
> Arny Krueger a écrit :
> > "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> >
> >
> >
> >>This is only the visible part of the iceberg because a lot of people
> >>refuse on RAO to exchange with him.
> >
> >
> > It's like RAO really means anything.
> >
> >
> >>He says he likes to share audio knowledge and I believe that. But I am
> >>sure that his "productivity" is less than 40% of what it could be if
> >>his f*****g behaviour was more temperate.
> >
> >
> > That's the game. The usual list of suspects attack my family and myself
> > early and often, with the goal that my natural responses to their
> > reprehensible attacks will cause me to appear to be intemperate. For
> > example, the first 2-3 years I posted here virtually every post I made
had
> > two personal attacks on me in response, from the same two individuals.

> I cannot discuss a lot of what you write here, because I don't have
> enough historic knowledge.

See below for an outline of RAO history. I came here ca. 1996 when the NG
was only about 3 years old and still a halfways decent place.

> I already know that Phillips is a jerk, an oldish pathetic one. I
> already know that Middius is a coward, a pathologic one.

I believe Middius and Phillips have said that they are approximately the
same age, chronologically.

But before them...

"HEAudio", "Gruvmeister", "Derrida", the Zipster, Shain, the previous
incarnation of "Richman", the previous incarnation of "Yustabe", "Sandman".
A couple of years ago Middius and Singh were Johnny-Come-Latelies. The names
fade before the bad taste.

> But I am sure that it's not *THE* game. this is your game, this is your
> rules but surely no universal rules... I guess you like them because,
> daily, you continue to post here.

Just waiting out the creeps while doing my best business elsewhere.

I imagine that I'm sentimental about this place because its where I started
out in Usenet.

Michael Mckelvy

September 12th 03, 06:52 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> > > Have you dialoged with Arny much?
> >
> > > The last time I dialoged him, he believed "all properly operating
> > amplifiers
> > > sound the same."
> >
> > That would be a definition of a properly operating amplifier, one that
> does
> > not audibly degrade the signals passing through it.
> >
> > > He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information
> content.
> >
> > Completely wrong. In those cases where differences are well known to be
> > audible, casual observations are fine.
> >
> But Arny, you are making the determination.
> Many people believe that many cases exist of audible differences between
> amplifiers.
>
Many people believe things that aren't true, that doesn't make it so. At
one time the conventional wisdom was that the earth was flat, we knw better
now. That properly functioning amplifiers don't sound different from each
other is in fact the case has been demonstrated countless times. It's not
just Arny saying it, it is the entire rest of the informed audio world.

> This is where you fall into L. Sprague DeCamp's "right man" syndrome, or
> Eric Hoffer's "The True Believer."
>
> You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
> definition.
> This is why Middius thinks you're insane.

Pot. Kettle.

> I think that's too strong a statement.

Duh.

> I think I know why you are the way you are.

He likes to be accurate?

> You have ample brains, but, as fate had it, you didn't get to exploit them
> in an academic environment. Had life given you the opportunity to exercise
> your intellect to the fullest, you would have had constant intellectual
> challenges. You would have learned how to fall into the trap of a belief
> system which excludes by definition.
>
?????????????

> In the first year or two of college, smart kids come into knowledge so
fast
> they don't know what to do with it. They try to explain everything within
a
> narrow framework. The word for this is "sophmoric." When challenged by the
> best, they are revisit their beliefs many times, finally learning that
there
> is one constant in our perception of the universe: change.
>
IOW professor try to beat them into submission. There are things that are
constants.

> You're a very smart guy, and it's a shame you missed certain things a
> liberal arts education would have provided.
> It would have tempered you.
>
>
>
You seem to be saying why won't you compromise? Why should someone deny
that the truth is the truth?

Michael Mckelvy

September 12th 03, 07:10 PM

"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
>
> Ref: High-End Audio & Personality issues...
>
> Within the Audio realm there is a different interpetation of
> what is "right" or "better" within each individuals mind.
> For one individual to assume that, somehow, they have it
> all right and ridicule a newbie that might ask an
> innocent leading question has an effect on the
> upcoming audiophile base.
>
> Unfortunately, on these newsgroup sites we have a group
> of hard-line objectivist that are certain that all aspects
> of the listening experience must somehow be related to
> numerical value systems...nevermind all the myriad of
> variables involved in the individuals mindset. It all becomes
> a variable in the Subjective world. One that you or I
> cannot grasp or totally understand.
>
> This being the case, why all the ridicule of the individual
> with an attitude that one cannot hear what he is proposing
> to hear...a total lack of understanding of the total
> hearing and mental interpretation of the audio process.
>
> As hardware changes..so does the illusion created..variables
> continue to creep in. The static objectivist viewpoint is
> shotdown! Witness, the hue and cry on these forums of the
> total completeness of the 16bit format. The cry went out
> that those people that heard differences were not hearing
> what they said they heard..and on it goes.

Beleif is not the same as reality. DBT's allow listeners to focus on the
sound alone. If there is a difference it will be heard. The probelm is
that the differences almost never show up and when they do it is always
because of some ordinary reason.

What a ridiculous
> stance! Get your ego out of this muddle and accept that you
> don't have hard-set answers to this audio puzzle.

It's not about ego, it's very simply about what is tru and waht is not.

If an individual
> claims to hear this or that..accept it!

I accept they believe it. I don't accept that it's true without proof.

Don't continue with
> this ego-involved joy ride that has nothing to do with reality
> either! This feeding of the ego on unproven concepts will
> prove to be your downfall. The history on these NewsGroups
> are proof of this. No one is listening...droves are leaving
> from the boredom of it all! Check and see who has the max
> posts to these Groups..it tells all!
>
> Leonard...
>
>
Why do you suppose so many people are afraid to be informed that what they
have been told by the sales guy was bull****?
Until somebody can reliably demonstrate that their sonic differences aren't
just their beliefs then they remain beliefs. Their are people who do stud
how the ear works and what the trhesholds of audibility are and they have
been documented for years, they are one of the reasons hearing aids have
gotten better. The facts simply don't jibe with the wishful thinking of many
audiophiles and that's the truth of it.

You are welcome to choose your equipment based on any criteria you chose but
the facts are still that you won't hear differences between properly
fucntioning equipment that isn't: A: speakers B. tubed C. a phono cartridge
or D a
turntable.________________________________________ __________________________
_
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:24:11 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > "Bruce Abrams" > wrote in message
> > news:9Ov7b.297825$cF.92706@rwcrnsc53 from rec.audio.high-end
> >
> >>I've often thought that if we eliminated (primarily because they've
become
> >>too predictable and boring) the discussions that invariably devolve into
> > DBT
> >>debates, ie. cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers, green pens, etc.,
> >>there would be precious few threads worth following.
> >
> > I think what this poor sap is really saying is: If we eliminate
discussions
> > of cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers, green pens, etc., there
would be
> > precious little in audio that interests him.
> >
> > Helllooo! Anybody home?
> >
> > I thought that the audio hobby was about the search for realistic (or at
> > least emotionally-rewarding) reproduction of music, drama and current
> > events.
> >
> > OK, so it has been conclusively found that differences in cables,
equipment
> > "burn-in", amplifiers, digital audio players, green pens etc., are
mostly
> > irrelevant to about the search for realistic reproduction of music,
drama
> > and current events. So what?
> >
> > It's not like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers,
> > digital audio players, green pens etc., are all there is in audio, is
it?
>

Arny Krueger

September 12th 03, 07:47 PM

"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
>
> Ref: High-End Audio & Personality issues...
>
> Within the Audio realm there is a different interpretation of
> what is "right" or "better" within each individuals mind.

First off Leonard, do you think that writing like an illiterate makes you
more credible? I mean the misspellings, the random capitalization, the
run-on sentences and all seems to be quite quaint. What are you trying to
hide?

> For one individual to assume that, somehow, they have it
> all right and ridicule a newbie that might ask an
> innocent leading question has an effect on the
> upcoming audiophile base.

Do you really think that there is an upcoming base of audiophiles? I think
that audiophiles as we think of them are going to die with the baby boomers.
Now, media philes we'll probably have for some time, but people who love
just audio - I don't think so.

> Unfortunately, on these newsgroup sites we have a group
> of hard-line objectivist that are certain that all aspects
> of the listening experience must somehow be related to
> numerical value systems...nevermind all the myriad of
> variables involved in the individuals mindset. It all becomes
> a variable in the Subjective world. One that you or I
> cannot grasp or totally understand.

Straw man argument, name-calling, stereotype mongering, and generally really
sloppy rhetoric. Goes with the spelling and ru-on sentence problem.

> This being the case, why all the ridicule of the individual
> with an attitude that one cannot hear what he is proposing
> to hear...a total lack of understanding of the total
> hearing and mental interpretation of the audio process.

Tell you what Leonard, turn this over to one of Atkinson's copy-writers,
make it into something that can be read and has a clear meaning, and I think
you might even get a conversation going.

> As hardware changes..so does the illusion created..variables
> continue to creep in. The static objectivist viewpoint is
> shotdown!

That would be "shot down" if you weren't feigning illiteracy, Leonard. And
of course that would be yet another straw man argument, more name-calling,
the same-old, same-old stereotype mongering, and even more of that generally
really sloppy rhetoric you seem to like to affect Leonard.

> Witness, the hue and cry on these forums of the
> total completeness of the 16bit format.

By definition any digital format is not a totally complete representation of
the analog data it represents. So what are you trying to say here, Leonard?

> The cry went out
> that those people that heard differences were not hearing
> what they said they heard..

Given their propensity to not compare the same music, not compare a the same
audio levels, not compare with the alternative adequately synchronized in
the time domain and to avoid bias controls like the plague; I think these
people are hearing what they heard. But what they heard was different
masterings of the same recording, sloppy level-matching, and non-existent
time-synchronization. Given all that, why do I need to mention the absence
of bias controls?

> and on it goes. What a ridiculous
> stance!

That's because it is yet another straw man argument, more name-calling, the
same-old, same-old stereotype mongering, and even more of that generally
really sloppy rhetoric you seem to like to affect Leonard. When will it end?

> Get your ego out of this muddle and accept that you
> don't have hard-set answers to this audio puzzle.

Correct me if I wrong here Leonard, but isn't the theme of your illiterate
rant: "Hi, I'm Leonard and I have all the answers"?

> If an individual
> claims to hear this or that..accept it!

I definitely accept that if you listen to the results of two different
mastering sessions, a decade or more apart, the two recordings will sound
different, even if presented in the same media format.

> Don't continue with
> this ego-involved joy ride that has nothing to do with reality
> either!

What do your straw man arguments, name-calling, the same-old, same-old
stereotype mongering, and even more of that generally really sloppy rhetoric
have to with Reality, Leonard?

> This feeding of the ego on unproven concepts will
> prove to be your downfall.

I get it. I need to repent, go down to my nearest high end dealer and stock
up on his most expensive speaker cable and interconnects. That and a ritual
SACD/DVD-A listening session will save my soul.

;-)

> The history on these NewsGroups
> are proof of this. No one is listening...droves are leaving
> from the boredom of it all! Check and see who has the max
> posts to these Groups..it tells all!

Letsee, it seems like over in RAHE the anti-ABX threads rule the day. The
moderators are even begging people not to start them...

dave weil

September 12th 03, 08:34 PM

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:06:11 -0500, dave weil >
wrote:

>Nicely done, Arnold. Way to show Leonard what the illiteracy gold
>stand is.

<irony alert!>

<chuckle>

Make that standard...

Bob Morein

September 12th 03, 10:50 PM

"Michael Mckelvy" > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> You are welcome to choose your equipment based on any criteria you chose
but
> the facts are still that you won't hear differences between properly
> fucntioning equipment that isn't: A: speakers B. tubed C. a phono
cartridge
> or D a
>
turntable.________________________________________ __________________________
> _
Mike,
You aren't near Philadelphia, are you? I'd invite you to see if you can
NOT hear the difference between a Hafler XL-280 and an Acoustat TNT-200.

Leonard

September 12th 03, 11:04 PM

Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!

This response is an excellent example of the responses
that tend to run people off of these Newsgroups. There
is the intent here to belittle the respondee, no matter
what the subject is...be it audio or ditch-digging..it
matters not! This writer thrives on this negative aspect
of all things in general.

Apparently, this approach "pads" the ego when suffering
from whatever motivates this mindset. Pitiful mess...
they rarely sense the negative aspect of their personality.

This flow from this source has been unbelievable over the
years. One wonders about that life style..what is the
expectations. There has got to be more to it than this
NewsGroup.

Anyway, sorry you take everything as a personal attack.

Be happy in your work! Review your "value-system"..some
critical adjustments are needed.

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:47:48 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:

>
> "Leonard" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>>
>> Ref: High-End Audio & Personality issues...
>>
>> Within the Audio realm there is a different interpretation of
>> what is "right" or "better" within each individuals mind.
>
> First off Leonard, do you think that writing like an illiterate makes you
> more credible? I mean the misspellings, the random capitalization, the
> run-on sentences and all seems to be quite quaint. What are you trying to
> hide?

Mercy...how did "hiding" something get into this
subject? Is this reflective of the writer?
I'm illiterate, mispellx things..jeepers, the
messenger must be destroyed! He can't rite
he runn-ons thangs...git him now! Is there a
picture emerging..did I say something that
hit "home"? Was there some harsh truth
dangling in my writings? Perhaps!
>
>> For one individual to assume that, somehow, they have it all right
>> and ridicule a newbie that might ask an innocent leading question
>> has an effect on the upcoming audiophile base.
>
> Do you really think that there is an upcoming base of audiophiles? I
> think that audiophiles as we think of them are going to die with the
> baby boomers. Now, media philes we'll probably have for some time, but
> people who love just audio - I don't think so.

I think so..there has been and always will be small pockets
of Audiophiles..never a large group..small but devoted.
Having watched various interest come and go..I differ with
you..thank goodness!!
>
>> Unfortunately, on these newsgroup sites we have a group of hard-line
>> objectivist that are certain that all aspects of the listening
>> experience must somehow be related to numerical value
>> systems...nevermind all the myriad of variables involved in the
>> individuals mindset. It all becomes a variable in the Subjective
>> world. One that you or I cannot grasp or totally understand.
>
> Straw man argument, name-calling, stereotype mongering, and generally
> really sloppy rhetoric. Goes with the spelling and ru-on sentence
> problem.

We are reverting to the "straw man" thingy! Mercy, you do have
a darth of buzz words. The issue is well defined in the above
sentences..you understand it..and know it..but,let us attack
the logic dragon..and the messenger..let us destroy him. Seem
familiar?
>
>> This being the case, why all the ridicule of the individual with an
>> attitude that one cannot hear what he is proposing to hear...a total
>> lack of understanding of the total hearing and mental interpretation
>> of the audio process.
>
> Tell you what Leonard, turn this over to one of Atkinson's copy-writers,
> make it into something that can be read and has a clear meaning, and I
> think you might even get a conversation going.
>
>> As hardware changes..so does the illusion created..variables
>> continue to creep in. The static objectivist viewpoint is shotdown!
>
> That would be "shot down" if you weren't feigning illiteracy, Leonard.
> And of course that would be yet another straw man argument, more
> name-calling, the same-old, same-old stereotype mongering, and even more
> of that generally really sloppy rhetoric you seem to like to affect
> Leonard.

Attack the messenger!! Slew the messenger..a ploy to avoid
the issue. Perhaps then, his harsh truth will not flow
well with the masses. Was the above statement addressed?
Of course not! I might be one of them-there Atkinson
thangs you dragged onto the stage here! Totally hidden
in incognitaramus. (Pardon the Latin)
>
>> Witness, the hue and cry on these forums of the total completeness
>> of the 16bit format.
>
> By definition any digital format is not a totally complete
> representation of the analog data it represents. So what are you trying
> to say here, Leonard?

Once upon a time..in fairy land..a group believed that the world
of 16 bit representation was nirvana..the epitomy of all truth.
But, someone said.."..no, there is more, a higher bit structure
will define more of the analog..but, not to be, the same
group that ridicules cables and such, ridiculed the higher
bit structures as a ploy by Manufacturers. Then numbers
were thrown about in an Objective "hog-heaven"...if you will.
Fodder grew heavy on these audio groups. Somehow, superior
reproduction came about from those looking for a better way
and not stuck in an ego-driven mindset. Know what? It will
get better and change again in the future. Drat!
>
>> The cry went out
>> that those people that heard differences were not hearing what they
>> said they heard..
>
> Given their propensity to not compare the same music, not compare a the
> same audio levels, not compare with the alternative adequately
> synchronized in the time domain and to avoid bias controls like the
> plague; I think these people are hearing what they heard. But what they
> heard was different masterings of the same recording, sloppy
> level-matching, and non-existent time-synchronization. Given all that,
> why do I need to mention the absence of bias controls?

Let us check a bit of logic here..you say we should just enjoy
the music..forget cables and stuff..but now you drag a set
of standards to uphold while one is attempting to enjoy the
music. Bias controls? You're going to control bias? Get real.
There are so many variable out there. It is staggering to
understand the magnitude. Let the poor soul enjoy the music with
all of the violations of your audio tenets. In reality, they
mean nothing to anyone but you!
...

>
>> and on it goes. What a ridiculous
>> stance!
>
> That's because it is yet another straw man argument, more name-calling,
> the same-old, same-old stereotype mongering, and even more of that
> generally really sloppy rhetoric you seem to like to affect Leonard.
> When will it end?
>
>> Get your ego out of this muddle and accept that you don't have
>> hard-set answers to this audio puzzle.
>
>
> Correct me if I wrong here Leonard, but isn't the theme of your
> illiterate rant: "Hi, I'm Leonard and I have all the answers"?

No! I think you have pretty well established who has all
the answers with this overpowering flow of responses on
these newsgroups over the years. It is evident that you
have ideas of where all the answers lie.

If you read and grasp what you read, you will see that I
accept that all individuals tend to hear and interpret
things somewhat differently. I accept that and say,
"more power to them"..I'm happy if they are happy and
enjoy what they are doing in the audio realm. You are
not content with that. You know better and you have
filled these NewsGroups with that message for years.
>
>> If an individual
>> claims to hear this or that..accept it!
>
> I definitely accept that if you listen to the results of two different
> mastering sessions, a decade or more apart, the two recordings will
> sound different, even if presented in the same media format.

A statement of the obvious..don't get it!
>
>> Don't continue with
>> this ego-involved joy ride that has nothing to do with reality
>> either!
>
> What do your straw man arguments, name-calling, the same-old, same-old
> stereotype mongering, and even more of that generally really sloppy
> rhetoric have to with Reality, Leonard?

More strawman stuff..run out of words? Ideas?
>
>> This feeding of the ego on unproven concepts will prove to be your
>> downfall.
>
> I get it. I need to repent, go down to my nearest high end dealer and
> stock up on his most expensive speaker cable and interconnects. That and
> a ritual SACD/DVD-A listening session will save my soul.

Do as you wish...however, let those that have all the answers
for you go by the wayside. If you prefer certain gear, then so
be it..but, do stop trying to tell others what they can or cannot
hear..You can't and don't know that. Who cares? Grasp that!
>
> ;-)
>
>> The history on these NewsGroups
>> are proof of this. No one is listening...droves are leaving from the
>> boredom of it all! Check and see who has the max posts to these
>> Groups..it tells all!
>
> Letsee, it seems like over in RAHE the anti-ABX threads rule the day.
> The moderators are even begging people not to start them...

You blind side shows up again...don't talk to me about cables or
anything above 16bit..just enjoy the music, yet you thrive on
the ABX scenario. A bit of logic missing here. ABX is a bore
and a "non-issue" to most Audiophiles. Cables are a bore and
a "non-issue" to some Audiophiles! RAHE is simply trying to
purge itself of this redundant, boring subject of ABX..it
tends to make one "barf", some kind of mental "shutdown"
occurs!

Marc Phillips

September 12th 03, 11:09 PM

Arny said:

>> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his ****ing
>> college.
>
>Phillips can't even get Morien's age right as many times as it has been
>posted, both on Usenet and the Internet.
>
>http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm
>
>Sad.

Sad? You call that sad? What the **** is wrong with you, you perverse piece
of ****?

Sad is a man in his fifties, like you, who spends up to twenty hours a day
playing on computers. Sad is a man like you who, having made no mark on the
outside world, becomes a pathological liar, hypocrite, and ultimately a
pedophile in order to garner some sort of attention from others.

You're calling me sad because I got the age of another poster wrong? You
didn't call Lionel sad when he said you were 65, did you, hypocrite? By the
way, you've gotten my age wrong on several occasions, even though I've posted
it more than once. You've also gotten my occupation wrong, and where I live.

THAT'S sad, you absolute ****ing idiot.

Boon

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 13th 03, 12:53 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
> > Arny Krueger a écrit :
> > > "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > >
> > >
> > >>Mr. Krueger has about 65 years
> > >
> > >
> > > No way.
> > >
> > >
> > 66 ? 67 ? 68 ? 69 ?
> > I'm sure that Middious would like to say 666 !
> > Lionel
>
> You started out at least 6 years high and things got worse from there.
>
>

Maybe he meant it will all end when your 65.
You have six more years of suffereing utter self abasement.
Have fun while it lasts.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 13th 03, 12:56 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...

>
> You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
> definition.
> This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
> I think that's too strong a statement.
> I think I know why you are the way you are.
> You have ample brains, but, as fate had it, you didn't get to exploit them
> in an academic environment.

I can see where you have the wherewithal to have some understanding
of the nature of the Beast.

>
> You're a very smart guy, and it's a shame you missed certain things a
> liberal arts education would have provided.
> It would have tempered you.
>

Arny is not exactly a Rennaisance Man.
Definitely not!

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 13th 03, 12:57 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
>
.."
>
> Wrong. If I'm a true believer, I'm a true believer in science and
empirical
> observations.
>

The problem is that your science is bad science.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 13th 03, 12:59 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

> For
> example, the first 2-3 years I posted here virtually every post I made had
> two personal attacks on me in response, from the same two individuals.
>

Now, you have the benefit of a much larger 'fan' club.

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Bob Morein

September 13th 03, 06:30 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Bobo puts on his Amateur Shrink suit.

And paste-on beard.
Since Arny will not lie on the couch willingly, we use restraints.
Gentle persuasion or pentathal drip?
Let's hold the pentathal for desert.

>
> > You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
> > definition.
> > This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
>
> Correction: This is one of dozens of reasons why ***WE*** think
> Krooger is insane.
>
I'm almost ready to concede you're right.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Bob Morein

September 13th 03, 06:35 AM

"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >
> > You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
> > definition.
> > This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
> > I think that's too strong a statement.
> > I think I know why you are the way you are.
> > You have ample brains, but, as fate had it, you didn't get to exploit
them
> > in an academic environment.
>
> I can see where you have the wherewithal to have some understanding
> of the nature of the Beast.
>
>
> >
> > You're a very smart guy, and it's a shame you missed certain things a
> > liberal arts education would have provided.
> > It would have tempered you.
> >
>
> Arny is not exactly a Rennaisance Man.
> Definitely not!
>
It's an example of what happens when the "man" becomes too dependent on what
he espouses.
His psyche is utterly dependent on his being the "guru" who disseminates the
Absolute Truth.
Arny cannot bend, he can only break.

But it's unlikely that he could break: He is so utterly impervious that he
actively seeks out contentious forums such as these. He's a real gladiator,
a "fighter for the Lord" kind of thinker.

I'd cast him as the lead in "Mosquito Coast".

Bob Morein

September 13th 03, 06:52 AM

"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
> Bob Morein a écrit :
>
> > "Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Bob Morein a écrit :
> >>
> >>
> >>>"Lionel Chapuis" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
> >>>[snip]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> >>>>Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> >>>>Arny B. Goode
> >>>>
> >>>>http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Lionel,
> >>> See my comment to Arny on the end of this thread.
> >>>
> >>> Arny and the "accept-all-fraud" high-end are at opposite extremes.
> >>>
> >>> There is no truth in extremes.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Thank you Bob.
> >>My english is surely very poor but I've already understood that.
> >>As you have cleverly said perhaps Arnold limits his outrageous behaviour
> >>to audio, to RAO...
> >>You know, *I* know that such impassioned guys are often out of reality
> >>but who care ? Who really care ?
> >>Mr. Krueger has about 65 years, I am 41, I feel for him the same thing
> >>you can feel for parents : patience and indulgence (but not love).
> >>I understand that technical guys like Dave hardly insist to discuss
> >>every points but I cannot stand Middius & Phillips' behaviour. Middius
> >>is a coward, Phillips a loser.
> >>
> >>In a way I feel that Arnold attitude is extremly Rock'n'Roll, so...
> >>...Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
> >>
> >
> > Have you dialoged with Arny much?
> > The last time I dialoged him, he believed "all properly operating
amplifiers
> > sound the same."
> > He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information
content.
> > Thus the fact that I have spent many evenings with a buddy listening to
and
> > comparing the different sonic signatures of "good" amplifiers means
nothing
> > to him.
> > According to Arny, one MUST have one of his ABX appliances to make
amplifier
> > comparisons. For the finest differences, this would be true, but there
are
> > many "fine" amplifiers, not all, which have differences almost as
apparent
> > as speakers. But he does not realize this, because his economic
situation
> > does not allow him to sample many amplifiers.
> >
> > But not for speakers; for speakers, he allows that the user can hear
> > differences without ABX. It is his arbitrary distinction.
> > He holds the same for DACs, but my experience, and that of others, is
quite
> > the contrary.
> >
> > Apparently, he was motivated to this area by his observation that there
is
> > much fraud, false claims, and so forth. But then he became like
Robspierre.
> > He kills too much good with the bad. He makes everything level to the
extent
> > which he can detect. But I learned that he hasn't heard very many
> > amplifiers. He picks a few a a price, and makes them represent the world
at
> > that price. He oversimplifies. He is "Agent Orange"; he defoliates, when
one
> > should just pull weeds.
> >
> > Rock'n'Roll is good, but then one realizes, he is too extreme, too
> > "Taliban."
> >
> >
>
> Bob you let the door open to an answer as it's, here, an uncommom
> practice here so I need first to thank you for that.
>
> Do you know any serious inustrial compagnies who use to sell products
> directly issue from R&D department ? No, obviously !
> I have work too much time in industry and I know what are the limits of
> a technical man like Mr. Krueger.
> It is very dangerous to give to such specialists a full customer request
> (cahier des charges) to work on. In a few time all your customers leave
> to run to competitors sales office !
>
> But here the context is different there isn't any hierarchical
> organization on Usenet to control his excessive behaviour...
> You must take him "as it" ! It's difficult ? Oh sure it is ! But...
> He pays for that, every days. The doors of RAHE are closed for him. This
> is only the visible part of the iceberg because a lot of people refuse
> on RAO to exchange with him.
> He says he likes to share audio knowledge and I believe that. But I am
> sure that his "productivity" is less than 40% of what it could be if his
> f*****g behaviour was more temperate.
>
> Now my question is : are Middius and Phillips more contributive to RAO
> ? My today answer is no and I add they seem to be more toxic !
> They just play to increase the general paranoia...
> ...like me but nothing else !
>
> Lionel
>
I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
Arny is hard to ignore because like you, I see tremendous energy,
enthusiasm, and considerable knowledge, largely wasted by a twist in the
man's personality.

I don't know what George would be like if Arny weren't here.
Certainly I would like to see more expression of what he believes. Perhaps
you feel he is a coward because he is very guarded; he doesn't give enough
information about himself to be "vulnerable."
It is psychologically very important to George not to be successfully
attacked.

I regret most that the number of posters is small; this indicates that many
are "intimidated." The regulars regard this as a private "club" with a
gallery. Very common on usenet, but somewhat selfish.

Sylvan Morein DDS, sad father of Bob

September 13th 03, 07:11 AM

On 12/9/03 10:35 PM, , "Bob Morein" > wrote:

> I'd cast him as the lead in "Mosquito Coast"

On 17/8/03 12:46 PM, , "Bob Morein" > wrote:

> There are some parallels between McCarty and Harrison Ford's character,
> "Allie Fox", in MOSQUITO COAST .
>
> Both exiled themselves to distant lands.
> Both were held in thrall by strange compulsions, and nutcake messianic
> ideas.
> Both made victims of themselves and other people.

My poor son Bob obviously wishes that he had ANY compulsion to do ANYTHING.
Instead he sits in his 12'x14' room day and night, staring at the computer
and making harassing phone calls to the neighbors.

If I had any balls at all I'd have this sick mother****er committed.

Sylvan Morein
--
A kind soul here forwarded to me this article about my poor sick and
Twisted son Robert Morein. It unfortunately validates all that we have
come to know about this hopeless lunatic after a Philadelphia Inquirer
investigation:

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm

> Doctoral student takes intellectual property case to Supreme Court
> By L. STUART DITZEN
> Philadelphia Inquirer
>
> PHILADELPHIA -Even the professors who dismissed him from a doctoral program
> at Drexel University agreed that Robert Morein was uncommonly smart.
>
> They apparently didn't realize that he was uncommonly stubborn too - so much
> so that he would mount a court fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court
> to challenge his dismissal.

The Supremes have already rejected this appeal, btw.
>
> "It's a personality trait I have - I'm a tenacious guy," said Morein, a
> pleasantly eccentric man regarded by friends as an inventive genius. "And we
> do come to a larger issue here."

An "inventive genius" that has never invented anything. And hardly
"pleasantly" eccentric.

> A five-year legal battle between this unusual ex-student and one of
> Philadelphia's premier educational institutions has gone largely unnoticed
> by the media and the public.

Because no one gives a **** about a 50 year old loser.
>
> But it has been the subject of much attention in academia.
>
> Drexel says it dismissed Morein in 1995 because he failed, after eight
> years, to complete a thesis required for a doctorate in electrical and
> computer engineering.

Not to mention the 12 years it took him to get thru high school!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>
> Morein, 50, of Dresher, Pa., contends that he was dismissed only after his
> thesis adviser "appropriated" an innovative idea Morein had developed in a
> rarefied area of thought called "estimation theory" and arranged to have it
> patented.

A contention rejected by three courts. From a 50 YEAR OLD that has
done NOTHING PRODUCTIVE with his life.

>
> In February 2000, Philadelphia Common Pleas Court Judge Esther R. Sylvester
> ruled that Morein's adviser indeed had taken his idea.

An idea that was worth nothing, because it didn't work. Just like
Robert Morein, who has never worked a day in his life.

>
> Sylvester held that Morein had been unjustly dismissed and she ordered
> Drexel to reinstate him or refund his tuition.

Funnily enough, Drexel AGREED to reinstate Morein, who rejected the
offer because he knew he was and IS a failed loser. Spending daddy's
money to cover up his lack of productivity.
>
> That brought roars of protest from the lions of academia. There is a long
> tradition in America of noninterference by the courts in academic decisions.
>
> Backed by every major university in Pennsylvania and organizations
> representing thousands of others around the country, Drexel appealed to the
> state Superior Court.
>
> The appellate court, by a 2-1 vote, reversed Sylvester in June 2001 and
> restored the status quo. Morein was, once again, out at Drexel. And the
> time-honored axiom that courts ought to keep their noses out of academic
> affairs was reasserted.
>
> The state Supreme Court declined to review the case and, in an ordinary
> litigation, that would have been the end of it.
>
> But Morein, in a quixotic gesture that goes steeply against the odds, has
> asked the highest court in the land to give him a hearing.

Daddy throws more money down the crapper.

> His attorney, Faye Riva Cohen, said the Supreme Court appeal is important
> even if it fails because it raises the issue of whether a university has a
> right to lay claim to a student's ideas - or intellectual property - without
> compensation.
>
> "Any time you are in a Ph.D. program, you are a serf, you are a slave," said
> Cohen. Morein "is concerned not only for himself. He feels that what
> happened to him is pretty common."

It's called HIGHER EDUCATION, honey. The students aren't in charge,
the UNIVERSITY and PROFESSORS are.

> Drexel's attorney, Neil J. Hamburg, called Morein's appeal - and his claim
> that his idea was stolen - "preposterous."
>
> "I will eat my shoe if the Supreme Court hears this case," declared Hamburg.
> "We're not even going to file a response. He is a brilliant guy, but his
> intelligence should be used for the advancement of society rather than
> pursuing self-destructive litigation."

No **** sherlock.

> The litigation began in 1997, when Morein sued Drexel claiming that a
> committee of professors had dumped him after he accused his faculty adviser,
> Paul Kalata, of appropriating his idea.
>
> His concept was considered to have potential value for businesses in
> minutely measuring the internal functions of machines, industrial processes
> and electronic systems.
>
> The field of "estimation theory" is one in which scientists attempt to
> calculate what they cannot plainly observe, such as the inside workings of a
> nuclear plant or a computer.

My estimation theory? There is NO brain at work inside the head of
Robert Morein, only sawdust.

>
> Prior to Morein's dismissal, Drexel looked into his complaint against Kalata
> and concluded that the associate professor had done nothing wrong. Kalata,
> through a university lawyer, declined to comment.
>
> At a nonjury trial before Sylvester in 1999, Morein testified that Kalata in
> 1990 had posed a technical problem for him to study for his thesis. It
> related to estimation theory.
>
> Kalata, who did not appear at the trial, said in a 1998 deposition that a
> Cherry Hill company for which he was a paid consultant, K-Tron
> International, had asked him to develop an alternate estimation method for
> it. The company manufactures bulk material feeders and conveyors used in
> industrial processes.
>
> Morein testified that, after much study, he experienced "a flash of
> inspiration" and came up with a novel mathematical concept to address the
> problem Kalata had presented.
>
> Without his knowledge, Morein said, Kalata shared the idea with K-Tron.
>
> K-Tron then applied for a patent, listing Kalata and Morein as co-inventors.
>
> Morein said he agreed "under duress" to the arrangement, but felt "locked
> into a highly disadvantageous situation." As a result, he testified, he
> became alienated from Kalata.
>
> As events unfolded, Kalata signed over his interest in the patent to K-Tron.
> The company never capitalized on the technology and eventually allowed the
> patent to lapse. No one made any money from it.

Because it was bogus. Even Kalata was mortified that he was a victim
of this SCAMSTER, Robert Morein.

> In 1991, Morein went to the head of Drexel's electrical engineering
> department, accused Kalata of appropriating his intellectual property, and
> asked for a new faculty adviser.

The staff at Drexel laughed wildly at the ignorance of Robert Morein.

> He didn't get one. Instead, a committee of four professors, including
> Kalata, was formed to oversee Morein's thesis work.
>
> Four years later, the committee dismissed him, saying he had failed to
> complete his thesis.

So Morein ****s up his first couple years, gets new faculty advisers
(a TEAM), and then ****s up again! Brilliant!

>
> Morein claimed that the committee intentionally had undermined him.

Morein makes LOTS of claims that are nonsense. One look thru the
usenet proves it.

>
> Judge Sylvester agreed. In her ruling, Sylvester wrote: "It is this court's
> opinion that the defendants were motivated by bad faith and ill will."

So much for political machine judges.
>
> The U.S. Supreme Court receives 7,000 appeals a year and agrees to hear only
> about 100 of them.
>
> Hamburg, Drexel's attorney, is betting the high court will reject Morein's
> appeal out of hand because its focal point - concerning a student's right to
> intellectual property - was not central to the litigation in the
> Pennsylvania courts.

> Morein said he understands it's a long shot, but he feels he must pursue it.

Just like all the failed "causes" Morein pursues. Heck, he's been
chasing another "Brian McCarty" for years and yet has ZERO impact on
anything.

Failure. Look it up in Websters. You'll see a picture of Robert
Morein. The poster boy for SCAMMING LOSERS.

>
> "I had to seek closure," he said.
>
> Without a doctorate, he said, he has been unable to pursue a career he had
> hoped would lead him into research on artificial intelligence.

Who better to tell us about "artificial intelligence".
BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>
> As it is, Morein lives at home with his father and makes a modest income
> from stock investments. He has written a film script that he is trying to
> make into a movie. And in the basement of his father's home he is working on
> an invention, an industrial pump so powerful it could cut steel with a
> bulletlike stream of water.

FAILED STUDENT
FAILED MOVIE MAKER
FAILED SCREENWRITER
FAILED INVESTOR
FAILED DRIVER
FAILED SON
FAILED PARENTS
FAILED INVENTOR
FAILED PLAINTIFF
FAILED HOMOSEXUAL
FAILED HUMAN
FAILED
FAILED

> But none of it is what he had imagined for himself.
>
> "I don't really have a replacement career," Morein said. "It's a very
> gnawing thing."

dave weil

September 13th 03, 07:12 AM

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:35:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
wrote:

>
>"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> >
>> > You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
>> > definition.
>> > This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
>> > I think that's too strong a statement.
>> > I think I know why you are the way you are.
>> > You have ample brains, but, as fate had it, you didn't get to exploit
>them
>> > in an academic environment.
>>
>> I can see where you have the wherewithal to have some understanding
>> of the nature of the Beast.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > You're a very smart guy, and it's a shame you missed certain things a
>> > liberal arts education would have provided.
>> > It would have tempered you.
>> >
>>
>> Arny is not exactly a Rennaisance Man.
>> Definitely not!
>>
>It's an example of what happens when the "man" becomes too dependent on what
>he espouses.
>His psyche is utterly dependent on his being the "guru" who disseminates the
>Absolute Truth.
>Arny cannot bend, he can only break.
>
>But it's unlikely that he could break: He is so utterly impervious that he
>actively seeks out contentious forums such as these. He's a real gladiator,
>a "fighter for the Lord" kind of thinker.
>
>I'd cast him as the lead in "Mosquito Coast".

I'd cast him as the mosquito.
>
>

Bob Morein

September 13th 03, 08:43 AM

Leonard, you have my deepest sympath.
This newsgroup is a Clockwork Orange.
And I'm inclined to think that Krueger, in spite of his good intentions, is
the catalyst.

"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!
>
> This response is an excellent example of the responses
> that tend to run people off of these Newsgroups. There
> is the intent here to belittle the respondee, no matter
> what the subject is...be it audio or ditch-digging..it
> matters not! This writer thrives on this negative aspect
> of all things in general.
>
> Apparently, this approach "pads" the ego when suffering
> from whatever motivates this mindset. Pitiful mess...
> they rarely sense the negative aspect of their personality.
>
> This flow from this source has been unbelievable over the
> years. One wonders about that life style..what is the
> expectations. There has got to be more to it than this
> NewsGroup.
>
> Anyway, sorry you take everything as a personal attack.
>
> Be happy in your work! Review your "value-system"..some
> critical adjustments are needed.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:47:48 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> >
> > "Leonard" > wrote in message
> > . ..
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ref: High-End Audio & Personality issues...
> >>
> >> Within the Audio realm there is a different interpretation of
> >> what is "right" or "better" within each individuals mind.
> >
> > First off Leonard, do you think that writing like an illiterate makes
you
> > more credible? I mean the misspellings, the random capitalization, the
> > run-on sentences and all seems to be quite quaint. What are you trying
to
> > hide?
>
> Mercy...how did "hiding" something get into this
> subject? Is this reflective of the writer?
> I'm illiterate, mispellx things..jeepers, the
> messenger must be destroyed! He can't rite
> he runn-ons thangs...git him now! Is there a
> picture emerging..did I say something that
> hit "home"? Was there some harsh truth
> dangling in my writings? Perhaps!
> >
> >> For one individual to assume that, somehow, they have it all right
> >> and ridicule a newbie that might ask an innocent leading question
> >> has an effect on the upcoming audiophile base.
> >
> > Do you really think that there is an upcoming base of audiophiles? I
> > think that audiophiles as we think of them are going to die with the
> > baby boomers. Now, media philes we'll probably have for some time, but
> > people who love just audio - I don't think so.
>
> I think so..there has been and always will be small pockets
> of Audiophiles..never a large group..small but devoted.
> Having watched various interest come and go..I differ with
> you..thank goodness!!
> >
> >> Unfortunately, on these newsgroup sites we have a group of hard-line
> >> objectivist that are certain that all aspects of the listening
> >> experience must somehow be related to numerical value
> >> systems...nevermind all the myriad of variables involved in the
> >> individuals mindset. It all becomes a variable in the Subjective
> >> world. One that you or I cannot grasp or totally understand.
> >
> > Straw man argument, name-calling, stereotype mongering, and generally
> > really sloppy rhetoric. Goes with the spelling and ru-on sentence
> > problem.
>
> We are reverting to the "straw man" thingy! Mercy, you do have
> a darth of buzz words. The issue is well defined in the above
> sentences..you understand it..and know it..but,let us attack
> the logic dragon..and the messenger..let us destroy him. Seem
> familiar?
> >
> >> This being the case, why all the ridicule of the individual with an
> >> attitude that one cannot hear what he is proposing to hear...a total
> >> lack of understanding of the total hearing and mental interpretation
> >> of the audio process.
> >
> > Tell you what Leonard, turn this over to one of Atkinson's copy-writers,
> > make it into something that can be read and has a clear meaning, and I
> > think you might even get a conversation going.
> >
> >> As hardware changes..so does the illusion created..variables
> >> continue to creep in. The static objectivist viewpoint is shotdown!
> >
> > That would be "shot down" if you weren't feigning illiteracy, Leonard.
> > And of course that would be yet another straw man argument, more
> > name-calling, the same-old, same-old stereotype mongering, and even more
> > of that generally really sloppy rhetoric you seem to like to affect
> > Leonard.
>
> Attack the messenger!! Slew the messenger..a ploy to avoid
> the issue. Perhaps then, his harsh truth will not flow
> well with the masses. Was the above statement addressed?
> Of course not! I might be one of them-there Atkinson
> thangs you dragged onto the stage here! Totally hidden
> in incognitaramus. (Pardon the Latin)
> >
> >> Witness, the hue and cry on these forums of the total completeness
> >> of the 16bit format.
> >
> > By definition any digital format is not a totally complete
> > representation of the analog data it represents. So what are you trying
> > to say here, Leonard?
>
> Once upon a time..in fairy land..a group believed that the world
> of 16 bit representation was nirvana..the epitomy of all truth.
> But, someone said.."..no, there is more, a higher bit structure
> will define more of the analog..but, not to be, the same
> group that ridicules cables and such, ridiculed the higher
> bit structures as a ploy by Manufacturers. Then numbers
> were thrown about in an Objective "hog-heaven"...if you will.
> Fodder grew heavy on these audio groups. Somehow, superior
> reproduction came about from those looking for a better way
> and not stuck in an ego-driven mindset. Know what? It will
> get better and change again in the future. Drat!
> >
> >> The cry went out
> >> that those people that heard differences were not hearing what they
> >> said they heard..
> >
> > Given their propensity to not compare the same music, not compare a the
> > same audio levels, not compare with the alternative adequately
> > synchronized in the time domain and to avoid bias controls like the
> > plague; I think these people are hearing what they heard. But what they
> > heard was different masterings of the same recording, sloppy
> > level-matching, and non-existent time-synchronization. Given all that,
> > why do I need to mention the absence of bias controls?
>
> Let us check a bit of logic here..you say we should just enjoy
> the music..forget cables and stuff..but now you drag a set
> of standards to uphold while one is attempting to enjoy the
> music. Bias controls? You're going to control bias? Get real.
> There are so many variable out there. It is staggering to
> understand the magnitude. Let the poor soul enjoy the music with
> all of the violations of your audio tenets. In reality, they
> mean nothing to anyone but you!
> ...
>
> >
> >> and on it goes. What a ridiculous
> >> stance!
> >
> > That's because it is yet another straw man argument, more name-calling,
> > the same-old, same-old stereotype mongering, and even more of that
> > generally really sloppy rhetoric you seem to like to affect Leonard.
> > When will it end?
> >
> >> Get your ego out of this muddle and accept that you don't have
> >> hard-set answers to this audio puzzle.
> >
> >
> > Correct me if I wrong here Leonard, but isn't the theme of your
> > illiterate rant: "Hi, I'm Leonard and I have all the answers"?
>
> No! I think you have pretty well established who has all
> the answers with this overpowering flow of responses on
> these newsgroups over the years. It is evident that you
> have ideas of where all the answers lie.
>
> If you read and grasp what you read, you will see that I
> accept that all individuals tend to hear and interpret
> things somewhat differently. I accept that and say,
> "more power to them"..I'm happy if they are happy and
> enjoy what they are doing in the audio realm. You are
> not content with that. You know better and you have
> filled these NewsGroups with that message for years.
> >
> >> If an individual
> >> claims to hear this or that..accept it!
> >
> > I definitely accept that if you listen to the results of two different
> > mastering sessions, a decade or more apart, the two recordings will
> > sound different, even if presented in the same media format.
>
> A statement of the obvious..don't get it!
> >
> >> Don't continue with
> >> this ego-involved joy ride that has nothing to do with reality
> >> either!
> >
> > What do your straw man arguments, name-calling, the same-old, same-old
> > stereotype mongering, and even more of that generally really sloppy
> > rhetoric have to with Reality, Leonard?
>
> More strawman stuff..run out of words? Ideas?
> >
> >> This feeding of the ego on unproven concepts will prove to be your
> >> downfall.
> >
> > I get it. I need to repent, go down to my nearest high end dealer and
> > stock up on his most expensive speaker cable and interconnects. That and
> > a ritual SACD/DVD-A listening session will save my soul.
>
> Do as you wish...however, let those that have all the answers
> for you go by the wayside. If you prefer certain gear, then so
> be it..but, do stop trying to tell others what they can or cannot
> hear..You can't and don't know that. Who cares? Grasp that!
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> >> The history on these NewsGroups
> >> are proof of this. No one is listening...droves are leaving from the
> >> boredom of it all! Check and see who has the max posts to these
> >> Groups..it tells all!
> >
> > Letsee, it seems like over in RAHE the anti-ABX threads rule the day.
> > The moderators are even begging people not to start them...
>
> You blind side shows up again...don't talk to me about cables or
> anything above 16bit..just enjoy the music, yet you thrive on
> the ABX scenario. A bit of logic missing here. ABX is a bore
> and a "non-issue" to most Audiophiles. Cables are a bore and
> a "non-issue" to some Audiophiles! RAHE is simply trying to
> purge itself of this redundant, boring subject of ABX..it
> tends to make one "barf", some kind of mental "shutdown"
> occurs!
>
>

Arny Krueger

September 13th 03, 11:23 AM

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
> Arny said:
>
> >> Careful, Greg. This is the forty-year-old who's still suing his
****ing
> >> college.
> >
> >Phillips can't even get Morien's age right as many times as it has been
> >posted, both on Usenet and the Internet.
> >
> >http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm
> >
> >Sad.
>
> Sad? You call that sad? What the **** is wrong with you, you perverse
piece
> of ****?
>
> Sad is a man in his fifties, like you, who spends up to twenty hours a day
> playing on computers.

Dream on.

>Sad is a man like you who, having made no mark on the
> outside world, becomes a pathological liar, hypocrite, and ultimately a
> pedophile in order to garner some sort of attention from others.

You're insane, Phillips.

> You're calling me sad because I got the age of another poster wrong?

Hey guys, look at this! Phillips finally admitted that he made a mistake!

> You didn't call Lionel sad when he said you were 65, did you, hypocrite?

Lionel doesn't put on airs about being perfect like you do, Phillips.

> By the
> way, you've gotten my age wrong on several occasions, even though I've
posted
> it more than once.

So were you kind and gentle when you corrected me, Phillips?

Or are you a hypocrite?

> You've also gotten my occupation wrong, and where I live.

Just for the record Phillps what is your occupation, and where do you live
this week?

> THAT'S sad, you absolute ****ing idiot.

Yes Phillips, you're a hypocrite. Thanks for sharing and have a nice
weekend!

Lionel Chapuis

September 13th 03, 12:27 PM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:35:16 -0400, "Bob Morein" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
>>>>definition.
>>>>This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
>>>>I think that's too strong a statement.
>>>>I think I know why you are the way you are.
>>>>You have ample brains, but, as fate had it, you didn't get to exploit
>>
>>them
>>
>>>>in an academic environment.
>>>
>>>I can see where you have the wherewithal to have some understanding
>>>of the nature of the Beast.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You're a very smart guy, and it's a shame you missed certain things a
>>>>liberal arts education would have provided.
>>>>It would have tempered you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Arny is not exactly a Rennaisance Man.
>>>Definitely not!
>>>
>>
>>It's an example of what happens when the "man" becomes too dependent on what
>>he espouses.
>>His psyche is utterly dependent on his being the "guru" who disseminates the
>>Absolute Truth.
>>Arny cannot bend, he can only break.
>>
>>But it's unlikely that he could break: He is so utterly impervious that he
>>actively seeks out contentious forums such as these. He's a real gladiator,
>>a "fighter for the Lord" kind of thinker.
>>
>>I'd cast him as the lead in "Mosquito Coast".
>
>
> I'd cast him as the mosquito.
>
>>
>
Is Middius the insecticide ?
LOL !

Bruce J. Richman

September 13th 03, 12:34 PM

Bob Morein wrote:

>"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>
>> Bobo puts on his Amateur Shrink suit.
>
>And paste-on beard.
>Since Arny will not lie on the couch willingly, we use restraints.
>Gentle persuasion or pentathal drip?
>Let's hold the pentathal for desert.
>

In c-l-K's case, even a so-called truth serum such as Sodium Pentothal won't be
effective. There are some things that are beyond the reach of science.
Restraints, OTOH, would always seem to be indicated, especially if they include
a muzzle.

>>
>> > You have constructed a logical system which excludes contradiction by
>> > definition.
>> > This is why Middius thinks you're insane.
>>
>> Correction: This is one of dozens of reasons why ***WE*** think
>> Krooger is insane.
>>
>I'm almost ready to concede you're right.
>
>Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
>
>
>
>
>
>

That's what Siggy said. And in this case, the "WE" includes many people -
LOT'S!!!

>

Bruce J. Richman

Arny Krueger

September 13th 03, 01:26 PM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...

> I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.

In Phillips I see a tight little ball of irrational hate. Hey, he spouts off
here and doesn't take a Uzzi to work. The greater good is served.

> Arny is hard to ignore because like you, I see tremendous energy,
> enthusiasm, and considerable knowledge, largely wasted by a twist in the
> man's personality.

Wasted eh? Largely wasted here because my best resources relate to science
and audio. But, there are all those other newsgroups that are real audio
newsgroups. Fun!

> I don't know what George would be like if Arny weren't here.

George has the personality of an attack dog. When I' not here he just sets
his sights lower and blasts away. See what happens while I'm gone.

> Certainly I would like to see more expression of what he believes.

Ironically, the George persona doesn't seem to know what *he* believes about
audio. Not interested enough, not aware enough, not bright enough.

> Perhaps
> you feel he is a coward because he is very guarded; he doesn't give enough
> information about himself to be "vulnerable."

What information is known about Middius does not paint a pretty picture.
He's a shell of a human, his emotions and ethics are thoroughly seared.

> It is psychologically very important to George not to be successfully
attacked.

Denial can work for a time. BTW, that makes Middius seem more human than he
really is.

> I regret most that the number of posters is small; this indicates that
many
> are "intimidated."

Given the congenial, accepting environment, how could that be?

;-)

>The regulars regard this as a private "club" with a gallery. Very common
on Usenet, but somewhat selfish.

Basically, RAO is the Arny fan club. I'm the topic of more posts around here
than anybody else by far. I'll bet there are newsgroups with celebrity names
that mention that celebrity less often than I am mentioned here.

On other newsgroups I don't dominate, I'm often barely apparent. Here, I
make many people's Usenet lives go around.

A fairly good book on insults could be assembled from my many years of
posting here. I'm like a tiger that the braver ones taunt, but none but the
most masochistic (e.g. Weil, Bamborough, Middius, Phillips) want to get
mauled by. Furthermore, all of my best insults can be repeated in polite
mixed company. Good material for the water cooler at work.

There are many people who lurk here, waiting on pins and needles to see if I
come up with a new creative way to nail the next antagonist.

I think that there should be a "Be Arny For A Day" newsgroup. People could
study up on witty put-downs for several weeks and then have a day to show
whether or not they can do with study, training and practice what comes
naturally and easy for me.

Arny Krueger

September 13th 03, 01:29 PM

"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..

> Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!

What do you mean already, Leonard?

You are what you are.

Here's a suggestion Leonard. With all your straw men, shallow thinking and
veiled name-calling, you'll fit right in over at RAHE. If you work really
hard, you'll save the moderators a lot of work fabricating stupid anti-ABX
posts to post under false names.

Arny Krueger

September 13th 03, 01:33 PM

"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..

> But then, maybe its sad...a lack of basic understanding
> of the total audio process...particularly when the
> audio signal enters you own private ear-mind construct.
> The variables there are staggering..uncharted. The
> hard-line objectivist totally ignores this realm.

Gee Leonard, you've shown once again that just when I think I've seen the
most outlandishly bloated ego, along comes a guy like you! You are obviously
think your time is way too valuable to bother with a serious attempt at
framing an original, coherent, well-thought-out argument.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 13th 03, 03:23 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bob Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>
> In Phillips I see a tight little ball of irrational hate. Hey, he spouts
off
> here and doesn't take a Uzzi to work. The greater good is served.
>
>

but he knows where you live!

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
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dave weil

September 13th 03, 03:24 PM

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:26:45 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>Furthermore, all of my best insults can be repeated in polite
>mixed company.

It's been a long time since you've been around the water cooler, but I
doubt that jokes about feces and spinchters would be well-received
(although I wouldn't doubt that you feel that you *could* say whatever
the heck you wanted).

This statement by you just shows that maybe it's time to get out in
the workplace because you seem to be going mad there in your hovel.

dave weil

September 13th 03, 03:25 PM

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:29:38 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

>
>"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>> Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!
>
>What do you mean already, Leonard?
>
>You are what you are.
>
>Here's a suggestion Leonard. With all your straw men, shallow thinking and
>veiled name-calling, you'll fit right in over at RAHE. If you work really
>hard, you'll save the moderators a lot of work fabricating stupid anti-ABX
>posts to post under false names.

Ahhhh, we're getting to the lasts girders of that buring bridge. Now,
there are only about 4 more to go. Unfortunately, this one is Mr.
Krueger's final bunker.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 13th 03, 03:41 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Leonard" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
> > Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!
>
> What do you mean already, Leonard?
>
> You are what you are.
>
> Here's a suggestion Leonard. With all your straw men, shallow thinking and
> veiled name-calling, you'll fit right in over at RAHE. If you work really
> hard, you'll save the moderators a lot of work fabricating stupid anti-ABX
> posts to post under false names.
>
>

So, you are accusing the RAHE moderators as posting under sockpuppets?

Our conspiracy against you just keeps growing and growing.

When you walk down the stree, you better be careful.
You never know when one of us won't drop a
piano on your head.

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Jim R.

September 13th 03, 04:57 PM

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:47:01 GMT, trotsky > wrote:

>Arny Krueger wrote:
>
>> "Bruce Abrams" wrote in message
>> news:9Ov7b.297825$cF.92706@rwcrnsc53 from rec.audio.high-end
>>
>>
>> >I've often thought that if we eliminated (primarily because they've
>> become
>> >too predictable and boring) the discussions that invariably devolve into
>>
>> DBT
>>
>> >debates, ie. cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers, green pens, etc.,
>> >there would be precious few threads worth following.
>>
>>
>> I think what this poor sap is really saying is: If we eliminate
>> discussions
>> of cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers, green pens, etc., there
>> would be
>> precious little in audio that interests him.
>>
>> Helllooo! Anybody home?
>>
>> I thought that the audio hobby was about the search for realistic (or at
>> least emotionally-rewarding) reproduction of music, drama and current
>> events.
>>
>> OK, so it has been conclusively found that differences in cables,
>> equipment
>> "burn-in", amplifiers, digital audio players, green pens etc., are mostly
>> irrelevant to about the search for realistic reproduction of music, drama
>> and current events. So what?
>>
>> It's not like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers,
>> digital audio players, green pens etc., are all there is in audio, is it?
>
>
>Naturally, it's this level of stupidity that has made Bose a billion
>dollar business.

Yes these are the two extremes. The best quality is somewhere in
between.

dave weil

September 13th 03, 05:08 PM

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:25:44 -0500, dave weil >
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:29:38 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>> Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!
>>
>>What do you mean already, Leonard?
>>
>>You are what you are.
>>
>>Here's a suggestion Leonard. With all your straw men, shallow thinking and
>>veiled name-calling, you'll fit right in over at RAHE. If you work really
>>hard, you'll save the moderators a lot of work fabricating stupid anti-ABX
>>posts to post under false names.
>
>Ahhhh, we're getting to the lasts girders of that buring bridge.

I must be channeling Mr. Krueger at this point. Either that, or it's a
caffeine deficency <g>.

If anyone needs a translation, please ask and I'll give it my best
shot <chuckle>

> Now,
>there are only about 4 more to go. Unfortunately, this one is Mr.
>Krueger's final bunker.

George M. Middius

September 13th 03, 05:28 PM

dave weil said:

> >Ahhhh, we're getting to the lasts girders of that buring bridge.

> I must be channeling Mr. Krueger at this point. Either that, or it's a
> caffeine deficency <g>.
>
> If anyone needs a translation, please ask and I'll give it my best
> shot <chuckle>

I'd like to offer some advice, dave. Proofread your messages before
you post them. The keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+S. That closes the
message and stores it in your Outbox. You can then open it again,
five minutes later perhaps, and read through it. I catch most of my
errors by doing this.

Bob Morein

September 13th 03, 05:57 PM

"Jim R." > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:47:01 GMT, trotsky > wrote:
>
> >Arny Krueger wrote:
> >
> >> "Bruce Abrams" wrote in message
> >> news:9Ov7b.297825$cF.92706@rwcrnsc53 from rec.audio.high-end
[snip]
> >>
> >> It's not like differences in cables, equipment "burn-in", amplifiers,
> >> digital audio players, green pens etc., are all there is in audio, is
it?
> >
> >
> >Naturally, it's this level of stupidity that has made Bose a billion
> >dollar business.
>
>
> Yes these are the two extremes. The best quality is somewhere in
> between.

Yes, I agree. But the reasonableness of the middle is a lonely place.

George M. Middius

September 13th 03, 06:10 PM

dave weil said:

> >I'd like to offer some advice, dave. Proofread your messages before
> >you post them. The keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+S. That closes the
> >message and stores it in your Outbox. You can then open it again,
> >five minutes later perhaps, and read through it. I catch most of my
> >errors by doing this.
>
> Too much work and too inhibiting.

Inhibiting, you say?

> I'll take the spontaneity and risk the occasional flubbing.

So does Krooger.

> There's something liberating about hitting the send button without
> having proofed.

If you say so.

> Plus, it gives me a chance to poke fun at myself and others at the
> same time.

Right.

dave weil

September 13th 03, 06:24 PM

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 13:10:39 -0400, George M. Middius
> wrote:

>
>
>dave weil said:
>
>> >I'd like to offer some advice, dave. Proofread your messages before
>> >you post them. The keyboard shortcut is Ctrl+S. That closes the
>> >message and stores it in your Outbox. You can then open it again,
>> >five minutes later perhaps, and read through it. I catch most of my
>> >errors by doing this.
>>
>> Too much work and too inhibiting.
>
>Inhibiting, you say?

Yep. Can be.

>> I'll take the spontaneity and risk the occasional flubbing.
>
>So does Krooger.

Yes, but the difference between us is the pervasiveness of his
ineptitude.

Hell, even *you* make the occasional error you know. Shouldn't you be
proofreading 100% of the time so that you can't be compared to Arnold?

>> There's something liberating about hitting the send button without
>> having proofed.
>
>If you say so.

I do. And did.

>> Plus, it gives me a chance to poke fun at myself and others at the
>> same time.
>
>Right.

Quite right.

Note that I'm not implying that I do it intentionally to get a cheap
laugh. The opportunity at self-mockery is simply a byproduct.

As to cheap laughs, overheard at a recent 8 Simple Rules taping...

"Hey John, that was a GREAT pratfall!"

"John"?

"John"?

"John, this isn't funny any more".

George M. Middius

September 13th 03, 06:36 PM

dave weil said:

> >> >You can then open it again, five minutes later perhaps, and read through it.
> >> >I catch most of my errors by doing this.

> Hell, even *you* make the occasional error you know. Shouldn't you be
> proofreading 100% of the time so that you can't be compared to Arnold?

Let me mull it over.

> As to cheap laughs, overheard at a recent 8 Simple Rules taping...
>
> "Hey John, that was a GREAT pratfall!"
>
> "John"?
>
> "John"?
>
> "John, this isn't funny any more".

Jesus wasn't finished with Mr. Ritter yet.

trotsky

September 13th 03, 06:38 PM

Sockpuppet Yustabe wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Leonard" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>
>>> Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!
>>
>>What do you mean already, Leonard?
>>
>>You are what you are.
>>
>>Here's a suggestion Leonard. With all your straw men, shallow thinking and
>>veiled name-calling, you'll fit right in over at RAHE. If you work really
>>hard, you'll save the moderators a lot of work fabricating stupid anti-ABX
>>posts to post under false names.
>>
>>
>
>
> So, you are accusing the RAHE moderators as posting under sockpuppets?
>
> Our conspiracy against you just keeps growing and growing.
>
> When you walk down the stree, you better be careful.
> You never know when one of us won't drop a
> piano on your head.

Then again, it could easily be argued that Krueger's present state of
mind already involves something large and heavy having fell on his head.
In fact, it could be he was involved in some sort of a fight with
baseball bats.

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 08:51 PM

Arny said:

>> Sad is a man in his fifties, like you, who spends up to twenty hours a day
>> playing on computers.
>
>Dream on.

This is about as far as I can get anymore when reading your responses. They're
so inept, so predictable, and so out of touch with reality that I could really
care less what you're saying. Now I know why so many people killfile
you...once you start in with the point-by-point tack, it really isn't worth it.

I've said this before, though. Many times.

Boon

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 09:02 PM

Bob Morein said:

>I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.

So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying bird,
you gave up?

BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you live
with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have a
wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well and
allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours, too!

In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently your
priorities in life are all ****ed.

Boon

Lionel

September 13th 03, 09:05 PM

Marc Phillips a écrit :

> Bob Morein said:
>
>
>>I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>
>
> So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying bird,
> you gave up?
>
> BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you live
> with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have a
> wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well and
> allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours, too!
>
> In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently your
> priorities in life are all ****ed.
>
> Boon
>
>
>
>
>
>
I'm 41 too, what about your weight ?
LOL

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 09:22 PM

Lionel said:

>Marc Phillips a écrit :
>
>> Bob Morein said:
>>
>>
>>>I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>>
>>
>> So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying
>bird,
>> you gave up?
>>
>> BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you
>live
>> with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have a
>> wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well and
>> allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours,
>too!
>>
>> In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
>your
>> priorities in life are all ****ed.
>>
>> Boon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>I'm 41 too, what about your weight ?
>LOL

185. Yours?

Boon

Lionel Chapuis

September 13th 03, 09:24 PM

Marc Phillips a écrit :
> Lionel said:
>
>
>>Marc Phillips a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>Bob Morein said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>>>
>>>
>>>So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying
>>
>>bird,
>>
>>>you gave up?
>>>
>>>BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you
>>
>>live
>>
>>>with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have a
>>>wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well and
>>>allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours,
>>
>>too!
>>
>>>In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
>>
>>your
>>
>>>priorities in life are all ****ed.
>>>
>>>Boon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I'm 41 too, what about your weight ?
>>LOL
>
>
> 185. Yours?
>
> Boon
>
>
kilogrammes ?

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 09:32 PM

Lionel said:

>Marc Phillips a écrit :
>> Lionel said:
>>
>>
>>>Marc Phillips a écrit :
>>>
>>>
>>>>Bob Morein said:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying
>>>
>>>bird,
>>>
>>>>you gave up?
>>>>
>>>>BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you
>>>
>>>live
>>>
>>>>with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have
>a
>>>>wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well
>and
>>>>allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours,
>>>
>>>too!
>>>
>>>>In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
>>>
>>>your
>>>
>>>>priorities in life are all ****ed.
>>>>
>>>>Boon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>I'm 41 too, what about your weight ?
>>>LOL
>>
>>
>> 185. Yours?
>>
>> Boon
>>
>>
>kilogrammes ?

Maybe you can explain, since you're so gregarious, why everyone who defends
Arny seems to adopt his habit of making up stuff about the other person, as
opposed to using actual facts. I used to think it was because Arny
sockpuppeted, but now I think it's just the natural cowardice of your average
Internet geek.

Boon

Lionel Chapuis

September 13th 03, 09:47 PM

Marc Phillips a écrit :
> Lionel said:
>
>
>>Marc Phillips a écrit :
>>
>>>Lionel said:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Marc Phillips a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Bob Morein said:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying
>>>>
>>>>bird,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>you gave up?
>>>>>
>>>>>BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you
>>>>
>>>>live
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have
>>
>>a
>>
>>>>>wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well
>>
>>and
>>
>>>>>allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours,
>>>>
>>>>too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
>>>>
>>>>your
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>priorities in life are all ****ed.
>>>>>
>>>>>Boon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm 41 too, what about your weight ?
>>>>LOL
>>>
>>>
>>>185. Yours?
>>>
>>>Boon
>>>
>>>
>>
>>kilogrammes ?
>
>
> Maybe you can explain, since you're so gregarious, why everyone who defends
> Arny seems to adopt his habit of making up stuff about the other person, as
> opposed to using actual facts. I used to think it was because Arny
> sockpuppeted, but now I think it's just the natural cowardice of your average
> Internet geek.
>
> Boon
>
>

Who speaks about Mr. Krueger ?
I gently ask for your weight, you answered and suddenly you speak about him.
I don't care about Krueger, I'm obliged to remember you that I am here
because you make me entered.

You're so angry, now, that I guess your weight is around 185 pounds.
Marvellous it's just a little bit over the average for a 41 man...
.... What about your size ? Oh well, 155 cm good, good, just a little bit
under the average !

Sylvan Morein DDS, sad father of Bob

September 13th 03, 09:59 PM

On 14/9/03 6:02 AM, in article ,
"Marc Phillips" > wrote:

> BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you
> live
> with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have a
> wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well and
> allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours, too!
>
> In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently your
> priorities in life are all ****ed.

Of course they are, his mother tried for years to get him out and working in
the world. He had a paper route in the 60's, but got wet in the rain one
day and wouldn't do it anymore.

You sound like a very good son Mr. Phillips. Not at all a disappointment to
your parents.

Sylvan Morein, DDS

--

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm

> Doctoral student takes intellectual property case to Supreme Court
> By L. STUART DITZEN
> Philadelphia Inquirer
>
> PHILADELPHIA -Even the professors who dismissed him from a doctoral program
> at Drexel University agreed that Robert Morein was uncommonly smart.
>
> They apparently didn't realize that he was uncommonly stubborn too - so much
> so that he would mount a court fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court
> to challenge his dismissal.

The Supremes have already rejected this appeal, btw.
>
> "It's a personality trait I have - I'm a tenacious guy," said Morein, a
> pleasantly eccentric man regarded by friends as an inventive genius. "And we
> do come to a larger issue here."

An "inventive genius" that has never invented anything. And hardly
"pleasantly" eccentric.

> A five-year legal battle between this unusual ex-student and one of
> Philadelphia's premier educational institutions has gone largely unnoticed
> by the media and the public.

Because no one gives a **** about a 50 year old loser.
>
> But it has been the subject of much attention in academia.
>
> Drexel says it dismissed Morein in 1995 because he failed, after eight
> years, to complete a thesis required for a doctorate in electrical and
> computer engineering.

Not to mention the 12 years it took him to get thru high school!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>
> Morein, 50, of Dresher, Pa., contends that he was dismissed only after his
> thesis adviser "appropriated" an innovative idea Morein had developed in a
> rarefied area of thought called "estimation theory" and arranged to have it
> patented.

A contention rejected by three courts. From a 50 YEAR OLD that has
done NOTHING PRODUCTIVE with his life.

>
> In February 2000, Philadelphia Common Pleas Court Judge Esther R. Sylvester
> ruled that Morein's adviser indeed had taken his idea.

An idea that was worth nothing, because it didn't work. Just like
Robert Morein, who has never worked a day in his life.

>
> Sylvester held that Morein had been unjustly dismissed and she ordered
> Drexel to reinstate him or refund his tuition.

Funnily enough, Drexel AGREED to reinstate Morein, who rejected the
offer because he knew he was and IS a failed loser. Spending daddy's
money to cover up his lack of productivity.
>
> That brought roars of protest from the lions of academia. There is a long
> tradition in America of noninterference by the courts in academic decisions.
>
> Backed by every major university in Pennsylvania and organizations
> representing thousands of others around the country, Drexel appealed to the
> state Superior Court.
>
> The appellate court, by a 2-1 vote, reversed Sylvester in June 2001 and
> restored the status quo. Morein was, once again, out at Drexel. And the
> time-honored axiom that courts ought to keep their noses out of academic
> affairs was reasserted.
>
> The state Supreme Court declined to review the case and, in an ordinary
> litigation, that would have been the end of it.
>
> But Morein, in a quixotic gesture that goes steeply against the odds, has
> asked the highest court in the land to give him a hearing.

Daddy throws more money down the crapper.

> His attorney, Faye Riva Cohen, said the Supreme Court appeal is important
> even if it fails because it raises the issue of whether a university has a
> right to lay claim to a student's ideas - or intellectual property - without
> compensation.
>
> "Any time you are in a Ph.D. program, you are a serf, you are a slave," said
> Cohen. Morein "is concerned not only for himself. He feels that what
> happened to him is pretty common."

It's called HIGHER EDUCATION, honey. The students aren't in charge,
the UNIVERSITY and PROFESSORS are.

> Drexel's attorney, Neil J. Hamburg, called Morein's appeal - and his claim
> that his idea was stolen - "preposterous."
>
> "I will eat my shoe if the Supreme Court hears this case," declared Hamburg.
> "We're not even going to file a response. He is a brilliant guy, but his
> intelligence should be used for the advancement of society rather than
> pursuing self-destructive litigation."

No **** sherlock.

> The litigation began in 1997, when Morein sued Drexel claiming that a
> committee of professors had dumped him after he accused his faculty adviser,
> Paul Kalata, of appropriating his idea.
>
> His concept was considered to have potential value for businesses in
> minutely measuring the internal functions of machines, industrial processes
> and electronic systems.
>
> The field of "estimation theory" is one in which scientists attempt to
> calculate what they cannot plainly observe, such as the inside workings of a
> nuclear plant or a computer.

My estimation theory? There is NO brain at work inside the head of
Robert Morein, only sawdust.

>
> Prior to Morein's dismissal, Drexel looked into his complaint against Kalata
> and concluded that the associate professor had done nothing wrong. Kalata,
> through a university lawyer, declined to comment.
>
> At a nonjury trial before Sylvester in 1999, Morein testified that Kalata in
> 1990 had posed a technical problem for him to study for his thesis. It
> related to estimation theory.
>
> Kalata, who did not appear at the trial, said in a 1998 deposition that a
> Cherry Hill company for which he was a paid consultant, K-Tron
> International, had asked him to develop an alternate estimation method for
> it. The company manufactures bulk material feeders and conveyors used in
> industrial processes.
>
> Morein testified that, after much study, he experienced "a flash of
> inspiration" and came up with a novel mathematical concept to address the
> problem Kalata had presented.
>
> Without his knowledge, Morein said, Kalata shared the idea with K-Tron.
>
> K-Tron then applied for a patent, listing Kalata and Morein as co-inventors.
>
> Morein said he agreed "under duress" to the arrangement, but felt "locked
> into a highly disadvantageous situation." As a result, he testified, he
> became alienated from Kalata.
>
> As events unfolded, Kalata signed over his interest in the patent to K-Tron.
> The company never capitalized on the technology and eventually allowed the
> patent to lapse. No one made any money from it.

Because it was bogus. Even Kalata was mortified that he was a victim
of this SCAMSTER, Robert Morein.

> In 1991, Morein went to the head of Drexel's electrical engineering
> department, accused Kalata of appropriating his intellectual property, and
> asked for a new faculty adviser.

The staff at Drexel laughed wildly at the ignorance of Robert Morein.

> He didn't get one. Instead, a committee of four professors, including
> Kalata, was formed to oversee Morein's thesis work.
>
> Four years later, the committee dismissed him, saying he had failed to
> complete his thesis.

So Morein ****s up his first couple years, gets new faculty advisers
(a TEAM), and then ****s up again! Brilliant!

>
> Morein claimed that the committee intentionally had undermined him.

Morein makes LOTS of claims that are nonsense. One look thru the
usenet proves it.

>
> Judge Sylvester agreed. In her ruling, Sylvester wrote: "It is this court's
> opinion that the defendants were motivated by bad faith and ill will."

So much for political machine judges.
>
> The U.S. Supreme Court receives 7,000 appeals a year and agrees to hear only
> about 100 of them.
>
> Hamburg, Drexel's attorney, is betting the high court will reject Morein's
> appeal out of hand because its focal point - concerning a student's right to
> intellectual property - was not central to the litigation in the
> Pennsylvania courts.

> Morein said he understands it's a long shot, but he feels he must pursue it.

Just like all the failed "causes" Morein pursues. Heck, he's been
chasing another "Brian McCarty" for years and yet has ZERO impact on
anything.

Failure. Look it up in Websters. You'll see a picture of Robert
Morein. The poster boy for SCAMMING LOSERS.

>
> "I had to seek closure," he said.
>
> Without a doctorate, he said, he has been unable to pursue a career he had
> hoped would lead him into research on artificial intelligence.

Who better to tell us about "artificial intelligence".
BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>
> As it is, Morein lives at home with his father and makes a modest income
> from stock investments. He has written a film script that he is trying to
> make into a movie. And in the basement of his father's home he is working on
> an invention, an industrial pump so powerful it could cut steel with a
> bulletlike stream of water.

FAILED STUDENT
FAILED MOVIE MAKER
FAILED SCREENWRITER
FAILED INVESTOR
FAILED DRIVER
FAILED SON
FAILED PARENTS
FAILED INVENTOR
FAILED PLAINTIFF
FAILED HOMOSEXUAL
FAILED HUMAN
FAILED
FAILED

> But none of it is what he had imagined for himself.
>
> "I don't really have a replacement career," Morein said. "It's a very
> gnawing thing."

George M. Middius

September 13th 03, 10:03 PM

Marc Phillips said to Bobo:

> In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently your
> priorities in life are all ****ed.

You left out all the rationalizations he gives about Krooger.
Doesn't change your conclusion, of course.

Lionel Chapuis

September 13th 03, 10:09 PM

George M. Middius a écrit :
>
> Marc Phillips said to Bobo:
>
>
>>In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently your
>>priorities in life are all ****ed.
>
>
> You left out all the rationalizations he gives about Krooger.
> Doesn't change your conclusion, of course.
>
>
Middius,
I don't understand you anymore, you are intelligent and you perfectly
know that Phillips is a jerk, a loser, so why ?
Do you feel a little bit alone ?
Oh yes I remember now, before anything else you're a *coward* !

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 10:11 PM

Lionel said:

[crappy formatting snipped]

>I'm 41 too, what about your weight ?
>>>>>LOL
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>185. Yours?
>>>>
>>>>Boon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>kilogrammes ?
>>
>>
>> Maybe you can explain, since you're so gregarious, why everyone who defends
>> Arny seems to adopt his habit of making up stuff about the other person, as
>> opposed to using actual facts. I used to think it was because Arny
>> sockpuppeted, but now I think it's just the natural cowardice of your
>average
>> Internet geek.
>>
>> Boon
>>
>>
>
>Who speaks about Mr. Krueger ?
>I gently ask for your weight, you answered and suddenly you speak about him.
>I don't care about Krueger, I'm obliged to remember you that I am here
>because you make me entered.
>
>You're so angry, now, that I guess your weight is around 185 pounds.
>Marvellous it's just a little bit over the average for a 41 man...
>... What about your size ? Oh well, 155 cm good, good, just a little bit
>under the average !

Again, why are you guessing my height? Why do you have to automatically assume
that there must be something wrong with me, or anyone else who disagrees with
you? I've seen you do it with several people here. It is the way of the
Internet geek, it is the way of the coward. YOU are the coward, Lionel.

And I'm 5'10", which is slightly above average.

Boon

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 10:19 PM

Lionel said:

>George M. Middius a écrit :
>>
>> Marc Phillips said to Bobo:
>>
>>
>>>In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
>your
>>>priorities in life are all ****ed.
>>
>>
>> You left out all the rationalizations he gives about Krooger.
>> Doesn't change your conclusion, of course.
>>
>>
>Middius,
>I don't understand you anymore, you are intelligent and you perfectly
>know that Phillips is a jerk, a loser, so why ?

He doesn't know that I'm a jerk, a loser. YOU think that because you don't
like me, so you have to make incorrect guesses about what kind of person I am
so that you can justify your hatred of me. It is the way of the Internet geek,
the type of person who appears anonymously on Usenet and attacks others because
they lead pathetic, menial lives in the real world. It is the way of a coward.

>Do you feel a little bit alone ?
>Oh yes I remember now, before anything else you're a *coward* !

No, you are the coward, Lionel. George simply recognizes this, as I do.
George is probably just ignoring you, because you're not worth the effort. It
is the way of the Internet geek to interpret this as cowardice, because
Internet geeks think they are important as long as they are anonymous.

Boon

Lionel Chapuis

September 13th 03, 10:28 PM

Marc Phillips a écrit :
> Lionel said:
>
>
>>George M. Middius a écrit :
>>
>>>Marc Phillips said to Bobo:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
>>
>>your
>>
>>>>priorities in life are all ****ed.
>>>
>>>
>>>You left out all the rationalizations he gives about Krooger.
>>>Doesn't change your conclusion, of course.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Middius,
>>I don't understand you anymore, you are intelligent and you perfectly
>>know that Phillips is a jerk, a loser, so why ?
>
>
> He doesn't know that I'm a jerk, a loser. YOU think that because you don't
> like me, so you have to make incorrect guesses about what kind of person I am
> so that you can justify your hatred of me. It is the way of the Internet geek,
> the type of person who appears anonymously on Usenet and attacks others because
> they lead pathetic, menial lives in the real world. It is the way of a coward.
>
>
>>Do you feel a little bit alone ?
>>Oh yes I remember now, before anything else you're a *coward* !
>
>
> No, you are the coward, Lionel. George simply recognizes this, as I do.
> George is probably just ignoring you, because you're not worth the effort. It
> is the way of the Internet geek to interpret this as cowardice, because
> Internet geeks think they are important as long as they are anonymous.
>
> Boon
>
>
Are the children playing ? Your wife cooking ?
You'll going to live home for week on Monday. So perhaps it's better now
you go with them. Better to have a nice smiling face...

Marc Phillips

September 13th 03, 10:35 PM

Lionel said:

>Are the children playing ? Your wife cooking ?
>You'll going to live home for week on Monday. So perhaps it's better now
>you go with them. Better to have a nice smiling face...

See, you're guessing again. My kids and my wife are at her mother's house. My
mother-in-law has pancreatic cancer and has weeks to live. I spent all last
weekend with her, but I couldn't bear going back again so soon because it was
too upsetting for me. She's gone from 170 lbs. to 90 in two months. She
doesn't look like the same person to me.

And I'm not going away for a week. I'm working less than 20 miles from home
this month. When I do travel, it's usually for no more than two or three days.

See, when you know the facts, all that stupid sockpuppet guessing **** looks
pretty trivial and foolish, doesn't it.

Boon

Lionel

September 13th 03, 10:47 PM

Marc Phillips a écrit :

Ok Mr. Phillips, ok !
*YOU* know now what I was speaking about !

Can God take care of you're wife's mom.

Sorry for this nasty evening.

Lionel

Bob Morein

September 14th 03, 12:46 AM

"Marc Phillips" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Morein said:
>
> >I ignore Philips because there is nothing there.
>
> So I guess after all that greeting card crap you gave me about the dying
bird,
> you gave up?
>
> BTW, Bob, you're an Internet geek, just like Brian McCarthy. Your 51, you
live
> with your dad, and you're still trying to sue your college. I'm 41, have
a
> wife, two kids, my own home, a college degree, and a job that pays well
and
> allows me to travel all over. And my stereo is much better than yours,
too!
>
> In other words, I'm perplexed by your "nothing there" comment. Evidently
your
> priorities in life are all ****ed.
>
> Boon
>
Marc, Middius gets under my skin just enough to keep it interesting.
You don't. You serve your negativity straight up.
With no sarcasm, my hat is off to you for achievement of a fine middle class
existence.

Actually, I barely remember what you've said. One thing does strike me from
this recent thread -- the tragedy of your mother.
I took care of my mother for 18 years while she died. Some people would have
given that to professionals.
Instead, it had a major effect on my life and my career path.

Pancreatic cancer is a very quick killer, so I have some advice to you which
you can take or leave:
Do an extra-special good job with your mother-in-law now. Don't turn away.
When she dies, your tears will count for nothing. Do right by her while
she's alive, and you'll have no regrets later. That means: when you feel
like turning away, it's time to come closer.

There are some factual errors about my life that I normally don't bother to
correct. I didn't sue my college, I sued my graduate school. I have been a
Ph.D candidate in two areas: theoretical physics, and electrical
engineering. This means that I completed all the requirements for the Ph.D
twice, except for acceptance of a thesis. The second time, at Drexel, I sued
in part because the U.S. Patent Office granted a patent application in which
I was the named inventor, but I was not informed of the fact. Consequently,
the final filing fee was not paid, and the application lapsed.

I admire everyone who has a conventional existence. But other paths have
their rewards as well. I have a state-of-the-art physical laboratory in the
basement, where I'm working on my second patent. I was an early adopter of
life-extension biology, as a result of which I appear to be in my late
twenties. My blood pressure is 106/64. I have time for recreational running.
Two years ago, I hiked the Grand Canyon from rim to rim.

I've shot a couple of short films, and I'm going to shoot more.

And my hat is off to you for the path you've chosen, and your "better hifi."
Are you sure? What have you got? :).

John Atkinson

September 14th 03, 01:45 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>...
> Basically, RAO is the Arny fan club. I'm the topic of more posts around
> here than anybody else by far. I'll bet there are newsgroups with
> celebrity names that mention that celebrity less often than I am
> mentioned here...
>
> Here, I make many people's Usenet lives go around...
>
> I'm like a tiger that the braver ones taunt, but none but the most
> masochistic (e.g. Weil, Bamborough, Middius, Phillips) want to get
> mauled by...
>
> There are many people who lurk here, waiting on pins and needles to see
> if I come up with a new creative way to nail the next antagonist.
>
> I think that there should be a "Be Arny For A Day" newsgroup. People could
> study up on witty put-downs for several weeks and then have a day to show
> whether or not they can do with study, training and practice what comes
> naturally and easy for me.

I had assumed this message was a forgery. But it appears from the headers
not to be. In which case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
newsgroup. :-(

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

George M. Middius

September 14th 03, 01:50 AM

John Atkinson said:

> I had assumed this message was a forgery. But it appears from the headers
> not to be. In which case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> newsgroup. :-(

Maybe Arnii grew a sense of humor.

MiNE 109

September 14th 03, 02:05 AM

In article >,
(John Atkinson) wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >...
> > Basically, RAO is the Arny fan club. I'm the topic of more posts around
> > here than anybody else by far. I'll bet there are newsgroups with
> > celebrity names that mention that celebrity less often than I am
> > mentioned here...
> >
> > Here, I make many people's Usenet lives go around...
> >
> > I'm like a tiger that the braver ones taunt, but none but the most
> > masochistic (e.g. Weil, Bamborough, Middius, Phillips) want to get
> > mauled by...
> >
> > There are many people who lurk here, waiting on pins and needles to see
> > if I come up with a new creative way to nail the next antagonist.
> >
> > I think that there should be a "Be Arny For A Day" newsgroup. People could
> > study up on witty put-downs for several weeks and then have a day to show
> > whether or not they can do with study, training and practice what comes
> > naturally and easy for me.
>
> I had assumed this message was a forgery. But it appears from the headers
> not to be. In which case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> newsgroup. :-(

It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and disregard for the truth
that drives the worst of US politics.

Stephen

Bob Morein

September 14th 03, 02:13 AM

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
om...
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >...
> > Basically, RAO is the Arny fan club. I'm the topic of more posts around
> > here than anybody else by far. I'll bet there are newsgroups with
> > celebrity names that mention that celebrity less often than I am
> > mentioned here...
> >
> > Here, I make many people's Usenet lives go around...
> >
> > I'm like a tiger that the braver ones taunt, but none but the most
> > masochistic (e.g. Weil, Bamborough, Middius, Phillips) want to get
> > mauled by...
> >
> > There are many people who lurk here, waiting on pins and needles to see
> > if I come up with a new creative way to nail the next antagonist.
> >
> > I think that there should be a "Be Arny For A Day" newsgroup. People
could
> > study up on witty put-downs for several weeks and then have a day to
show
> > whether or not they can do with study, training and practice what comes
> > naturally and easy for me.
>
> I had assumed this message was a forgery. But it appears from the headers
> not to be. In which case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> newsgroup. :-(
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile

I concur.
With suitable emoticons attached.

Bob Morein

September 14th 03, 02:17 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> John Atkinson said:
>
> > I had assumed this message was a forgery. But it appears from the
headers
> > not to be. In which case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> > newsgroup. :-(
>
> Maybe Arnii grew a sense of humor.
>
He didn't.
He responded to my minor injection of helium by soaring into the
stratosphere of self-admiration.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 14th 03, 03:39 AM

"MiNE 109" > wrote in message news:smcatut-> >
>> It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and disregard for the truth
> that drives the worst of US politics.
>

Yes, very good indeed. Let's blame Arnie for all of our
political shortcomings. Clinton, Bush and Davis are off the hook.
If we could only recall Arnie.......

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 14th 03, 03:48 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> I. I have a state-of-the-art physical laboratory in the
> basement, where I'm working on my second patent. I was an early adopter of
> life-extension biology, as a result of which I appear to be in my late
> twenties.

So, Bob has a laboratory in the basement where he experiments
on himself using his own formula for a potion of
everlasting youth. The only thing that's
missing is Igor.
Careful with those side effects, Bob

Come to think of it, this may be Bob's salvation in life.
Its his own life that could be turned into his first
successful screenplay. But how to handle it?
Is it horror, comedy or tragedy?

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Bob Morein

September 14th 03, 05:08 AM

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 14th 03, 05:29 AM

"Bob Morein" > wrote in message
ws.com...
> On 9/14/03 12:48, in article , "Sockpuppet Yustabe"
> > wrote:
>
> > Its his own life that could be turned into his first
> > successful screenplay. But how to handle it?
> > Is it horror, comedy or tragedy?
>
> It's all of these. Quite a marketing challenge.
>
> And I'm holding out to direct and star, as well.
>
>

Your whole life is a marketing challenge.

----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

Lionel

September 14th 03, 09:45 AM

John Atkinson a écrit :
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >...
>
>>Basically, RAO is the Arny fan club. I'm the topic of more posts around
>>here than anybody else by far. I'll bet there are newsgroups with
>>celebrity names that mention that celebrity less often than I am
>>mentioned here...
>>
>>Here, I make many people's Usenet lives go around...
>>
>>I'm like a tiger that the braver ones taunt, but none but the most
>>masochistic (e.g. Weil, Bamborough, Middius, Phillips) want to get
>>mauled by...
>>
>>There are many people who lurk here, waiting on pins and needles to see
>>if I come up with a new creative way to nail the next antagonist.
>>
>>I think that there should be a "Be Arny For A Day" newsgroup. People could
>>study up on witty put-downs for several weeks and then have a day to show
>>whether or not they can do with study, training and practice what comes
>>naturally and easy for me.
>
>
> I had assumed this message was a forgery. But it appears from the headers
> not to be. In which case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> newsgroup. :-(
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile

Everybody for the chorus:

Go go, go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
Go Arny go go go, go Arny go go go
Arny B. Good

http://mos-cmos.chez.tiscali.fr/Eddy.wmv

MiNE 109

September 14th 03, 01:17 PM

In article >,
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:

> "MiNE 109" > wrote in message news:smcatut-> >
> >> It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and disregard for the truth
> > that drives the worst of US politics.
> >
>
> Yes, very good indeed. Let's blame Arnie for all of our
> political shortcomings. Clinton, Bush and Davis are off the hook.
> If we could only recall Arnie.......

Did you ever miss the point...

Stephen

Leonard

September 14th 03, 02:58 PM

Ref: ..an illiterate..strawman..shallow thinking..
..ad infinitum.

Let me see...they are all against you, particularly
those who differ. I differ, therefore the name-calling.
Now it is RAHE...they are all that way, they are
trying to get me. They are all after me! My beliefs
are not accepted by all! I must destroy, demean..
and generally strike out at all those who differ!
With over 100,000 posts I will prevail.

There is a name for this mental attitude.
It is well studied in psychology.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words. Such a strange
reaction..I don't know you from "adams house-cat"..
but I tend to differ. Therefore, I am bad and
subject to your ridicule. Do you have urges to
burn books?

Again, be happy in your work!

Leonard...

P.S. Extremist never do well in a moderated environment.
__________________________________________________ ____________

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 08:29:38 -0400, Arny Krueger wrote:

>
> "Leonard" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>> Ref: Gee whiz...an illiterate already!!
>
> What do you mean already, Leonard?
>
> You are what you are.
>
> Here's a suggestion Leonard. With all your straw men, shallow thinking and
> veiled name-calling, you'll fit right in over at RAHE. If you work really
> hard, you'll save the moderators a lot of work fabricating stupid anti-ABX
> posts to post under false names.

Leonard

September 14th 03, 06:00 PM

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 11:10:29 -0700, Michael Mckelvy wrote:

>
> "Leonard" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
Ref: What is "true" and what is "not".

It's not about ego, it's very simply about what is true and waht is not.

If an individual
claims to hear this or that..accept it!

I accept they believe it. I don't accept that it's true without proof.

Somehow you've missed the point here. My point has always been that
the "truth" is not known at this point in time. Particularly in the
area of the mental process that interprets the audio received from
the ear-mind process. This is a cess-pool of variables..you nor I,
know the "truth" of what this does to each individuals sense of
"good" audio or "bad" audio. To profess that one knows the "truth"
here is not logical and somewhat preposterious to believe without
"proof" ,of which no one can "prove", other than by the verbal
process, which is limited. There is an arrogance about this "proof"
attitude. If one does not accept it, then move along. Case closed.
No one really cares if others believe it or not! Short term
switching arrangements will not resolve this issue.
>
> Don't continue with
>> this ego-involved joy ride that has nothing to do with reality
>> either! This feeding of the ego on unproven concepts will prove to
>> be your downfall. The history on these NewsGroups are proof of this.
>> No one is listening...droves are leaving from the boredom of it all!
>> Check and see who has the max posts to these Groups..it tells all!

>>
> Why do you suppose so many people are afraid to be informed that what
> they have been told by the sales guy was bull****?

I'm a bit intrigued by the "afraid" comment. Every candidate for a
new audio system I have had contact with are well aware of the
sales "mumbo-jumbo". Most people that live here in this Capitalistic
world are sensitive to that issue. Much information flows now on
the pros and cons of hardware out there. Surely, you do not feel
that you have all these common insights regarding the sales
side of this issue...and somehow the Audio buyer does not?
Where did this notion come from that one must take care of
the audio buyer..with my testing criteria..oh boredom!!

> Until somebody can reliably demonstrate that their sonic differences
> aren't just their beliefs then they remain beliefs. Their are people
> who do stud how the ear works and what the trhesholds of audibility are
> and they have been documented for years, they are one of the reasons
> hearing aids have gotten better. The facts simply don't jibe with the
> wishful thinking of many audiophiles and that's the truth of it.

There are no studies out there on how the mental process works
regarding what an individual decides is "better" or "worse".
That arena has to do with the "beliefs" arena. That is the
major issue here. If one takes a system to his own listening
environment and spends time there with it and decides one
is superior to another in that environment...then, the
issue is closed! It is his "belief" system we are dealing
with here!! Grasp that! This includes cables or amps..if
one "believes" one is superior to another..that is part of
the overall audio scenario..he is mentally content with his
decision. You do that when you select an Automobile..you
cannot know if A is Superior to B..you must abide with the
input that has been fed to your "belief" system. Therefore
you select "B" or "A" to satisfy that belief. Note that
not everyone is buying the same auto as you! Variables
variables!! Here we drag in another variable..your
"value-system". Drats, they just keep coming on!

Studies on the ear-workings have to do with levels and
frequency responses..but, you will find that those that
have dealt in that area will tell you that the variances
between individuals is staggering. Also, they have difficulty
in verbal responses to what they are hearing...one has
delve into the area of the ear-mind construct and the
mental interpretation of what is being heard. This area
is the cess-pool of variability I have discussed.

The "wishful" thinking statement is a bit vague to me..
..most Audiophiles I have run into are open minded to
any suggestions to new cable, amps or speakers..I fail
to put any credence to "wishful" thinking..this is a
construct of some "hard-line objectivist" to handle
some aspect of the decision process that they can't
understand. When subjected to the test of his/her
own private listening room..wishful thinking is not
a factor. A better or worse scenario is met there
generally, with an occasional "no notable difference"!
>
> You are welcome to choose your equipment based on any criteria you chose
> but the facts are still that you won't hear differences between properly
> fucntioning equipment that isn't: A: speakers B. tubed C. a phono

You are stating what I will or won't hear..as if your ear-mind
structure is the same as mine or millions of others. You are
implying that external criteria can determine this..I differ
with you...not logical nor of the "real" world. BTW, there
are Manufacturers that tend to alter resistor values in certain
circuits to get a certain sound...after the first generation of
solid-state amplifiers this was accomplished to get closer
to a more "tube-type" sound. Even today some amplifiers have a
harsh sound...it becomes more evident after weeks of listening.
No single short-term listening will show this. It is cumulative
in nature. Short-term switching arrangements do not show this.

So, I believe there are amplifier and pre-amplifier differences
...and some cables alter the sound. You do not believe..we
differ! However, I will continue to take hardware home and
listen in my own private audio world and select what sounds best
to me. There are differences..I hear them..your belief system
says no! The tendency today by certain mindsets seems to
jump to conclusions about a system where the "transmission"
side of audio is fairly well known..but, hardly anything
is known about the "reception" side of the issue. One
cannot make much of a decision on this issue without
considering the full equation. That is being done
here! The "reception" side is a relative unknown!!

An effort to devise some test on the "transmission"
side that will nullify the "reception" side will not
work! Sorry! The issue is "two-sided", and more complex
than is currently grasped! The "receptor" side is full
of variables.

Leonard...

P.S. Some time, take a couple of cables home...maybe
there is a dealer around that will work out
a loaner program with you..listen to them all
connected in your normal listening environment
with one of your favorite CD's and with some
CD that is not so hot recording wise. Might
be interesting to you. Just you, with no
talk, no interruptions. If you find it a
waste..so be it! However, you might be
surprized that subtle differences do occur.
Then it is up to your value system to ascess
if they are of importance to you. Do keep
an "open" mind!

Anon E Mouse

September 14th 03, 06:06 PM

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Leon North wrote:

> [...]
>
> The Shadow

Pour ça, il faudrait que tu comprennes ce que tu fais... >8->
--
Anon E. Mouse

[Playing] "Blind Wid The Science" - Rascalz

Leon North

September 14th 03, 06:22 PM

Sum******* McInturd plays the critic:

> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Leon North wrote:
>
> > [...]
> >
> > The Shadow
>
> Pour ça, il faudrait que tu comprennes ce que tu fais... >8->

It should be obvious to you that I do. Show me what +you+ can do. No
game? All talk? Thought so.

You are almost as inept and stupid as Kroogles.

The Shadow

--
"Critics generally come to be critics not by reason of their fitness
for this, but of their unfitness for anything else." -- Samuel Butler

Bob Morein

September 15th 03, 12:51 AM

"Anon E Mouse" > wrote in message
...
>
[snip]
>
> State a single documented exception.
>
He's always said this, as far as I know. If Arny has made a contrary
statement, ask him.
>
> > He believes that ALL casual observations contain zero information
content.
>
> Not what he said, Mr. Absolutist.
> --
> Anon E. Mouse
>
You must have the wrong guy. My name is Mr. Relativist.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 15th 03, 05:46 AM

"MiNE 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
>
> > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message news:smcatut->
>
> > > > >> It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and disregard for the
> > truth
> > > > > that drives the worst of US politics.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, very good indeed. Let's blame Arnie for all of our
> > > > political shortcomings. Clinton, Bush and Davis are off the hook.
> > > > If we could only recall Arnie.......
> > >
> > > Did you ever miss the point...
> > >
> >
> > It is evident that it was you that missed the point.
>
> I'll play the "mutual incomprehension" card.
>

I would too, could I understand what you are saying.

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MiNE 109

September 15th 03, 05:32 PM

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 16th 03, 12:50 AM

"Bruce J. Richman" > wrote in message
...
> Steven wrote:
>
>
> >In article >,
> > George M. Middius > wrote:
> >
> >> MiNE 109 said:
> >>
> >> > > > > >> It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and disregard for
the
> >
> >> > > > > >> truth
> >> > > > > > that drives the worst of US politics.
> >>
> >> > > > > Yes, very good indeed. Let's blame Arnie for all of our
> >> > > > > political shortcomings. Clinton, Bush and Davis are off the
hook.
> >> > > > > If we could only recall Arnie.......
> >>
> >> > > > Did you ever miss the point...
> >>
> >> > > It is evident that it was you that missed the point.
> >>
> >> > I'll play the "mutual incomprehension" card.
> >>
> >> I assume recalling Krooger is still a fantasy, right?
> >
> >Until the constitutional amendment passes...
> >
> >Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> If he were in the former republic of Iraq (as Minister of Disinformation),
he
> could prob ably indicted now for (a) War Crimes, or (b) Crimes Against
> Humanity. :)
>
>

If Arny were in Iraq, Uday would have made him his number one boy toy.

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Powell

September 16th 03, 02:54 AM

"John Atkinson" wrote

> <snip Arny quacking>
>
>
> I had assumed this message was a forgery. But
> it appears from the headers not to be. In which
> case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> newsgroup. :-(
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>
"Saddest thing I have seen"... is this is a honest
expression of heartfelt shock or just trolling?
Having taken the time to compose this subject
post what have you learned that you didn't know
before this self-revelation need to testify (religious
connotation/"saddest thing I have seen"/rao)?

If you're just trolling Arny again, nice composition :).

Bob Morein

September 16th 03, 08:00 AM

"Powell" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Atkinson" wrote
>
> > <snip Arny quacking>
> >
> >
> > I had assumed this message was a forgery. But
> > it appears from the headers not to be. In which
> > case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> > newsgroup. :-(
> >
> > John Atkinson
> > Editor, Stereophile
> >
> "Saddest thing I have seen"... is this is a honest
> expression of heartfelt shock or just trolling?
> Having taken the time to compose this subject
> post what have you learned that you didn't know
> before this self-revelation need to testify (religious
> connotation/"saddest thing I have seen"/rao)?
>
> If you're just trolling Arny again, nice composition :).
>

It is common on this newsgroup to learn that one's verbal
opponent/antagonist simply has a rude veneer, or an attitude problem.
However, Arny's statement is genuinely pathetic, because it shows how much
he really relies on this group for his self-identity. It means he doesn't
have much else.

Which makes me sad.

Bob Morein

September 16th 03, 10:32 AM

"Lionel" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
> Bob Morein a écrit :
>
> > "Powell" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>"John Atkinson" wrote
> >>
> >>
> >>> <snip Arny quacking>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I had assumed this message was a forgery. But
> >>>it appears from the headers not to be. In which
> >>>case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> >>>newsgroup. :-(
> >>>
> >>>John Atkinson
> >>>Editor, Stereophile
> >>>
> >>
> >>"Saddest thing I have seen"... is this is a honest
> >>expression of heartfelt shock or just trolling?
> >>Having taken the time to compose this subject
> >>post what have you learned that you didn't know
> >>before this self-revelation need to testify (religious
> >>connotation/"saddest thing I have seen"/rao)?
> >>
> >>If you're just trolling Arny again, nice composition :).
> >>
> >
> >
> > It is common on this newsgroup to learn that one's verbal
> > opponent/antagonist simply has a rude veneer, or an attitude problem.
> > However, Arny's statement is genuinely pathetic, because it shows how
much
> > he really relies on this group for his self-identity. It means he
doesn't
> > have much else.
> >
> > Which makes me sad.
> >
> >
> Good morning Bob,
>
> I don't know if you play chess, but if a day Arnold propose you a
> confrontation, let me advise you that you'd better refuse... Except if
> you have 2 pairs of trousers. ;-)
>
Hmmm.
Do we have any Vegas odds on this?

George M. Middius

September 16th 03, 02:39 PM

Powell gibbered:

> Mmmmm... Buddha said life has two
> components... change and decay. Get
> some enlightenment or just keep muttering
> along the best you can, Robert :).

In case I've never said it before, Powie, you're not as bad as a
Jesus freak.

Powell

September 16th 03, 02:39 PM

"Bob Morein" wrote

> > "John Atkinson" wrote
> >
> > > <snip Arny quacking>
> > >
> > >
> > > I had assumed this message was a forgery. But
> > > it appears from the headers not to be. In which
> > > case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
> > > newsgroup. :-(
> > >
> > > John Atkinson
> > > Editor, Stereophile
> > >
> > "Saddest thing I have seen"... is this is a honest
> > expression of heartfelt shock or just trolling?
> > Having taken the time to compose this subject
> > post what have you learned that you didn't know
> > before this self-revelation need to testify (religious
> > connotation/"saddest thing I have seen"/rao)?
> >
> > If you're just trolling Arny again, nice composition :).
> >
>
> It is common on this newsgroup to learn that one's
> verbal opponent/antagonist simply has a rude
> veneer, or an attitude problem.
>
So your response was conformation NOT
revelation (Atkinson)... I need something
stronger in my morning coffee.

> However, Arny's statement is genuinely pathetic,
> because it shows how much he really relies on
> this group for his self-identity. It means he doesn't
> have much else.
>
Yea, so what... Zzzzzz?

It would seem Arny has rao and you have
ram... based on the description you just
presented.

> Which makes me sad.
>
Mmmmm... Buddha said life has two
components... change and decay. Get
some enlightenment or just keep muttering
along the best you can, Robert :).

dave weil

September 16th 03, 02:48 PM

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:39:54 -0400, "Powell" >
wrote:

>
>"Bob Morein" wrote
>
>> > "John Atkinson" wrote
>> >
>> > > <snip Arny quacking>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I had assumed this message was a forgery. But
>> > > it appears from the headers not to be. In which
>> > > case it is the saddest thing I have seen on this
>> > > newsgroup. :-(
>> > >
>> > > John Atkinson
>> > > Editor, Stereophile
>> > >
>> > "Saddest thing I have seen"... is this is a honest
>> > expression of heartfelt shock or just trolling?
>> > Having taken the time to compose this subject
>> > post what have you learned that you didn't know
>> > before this self-revelation need to testify (religious
>> > connotation/"saddest thing I have seen"/rao)?
>> >
>> > If you're just trolling Arny again, nice composition :).
>> >
>>
>> It is common on this newsgroup to learn that one's
>> verbal opponent/antagonist simply has a rude
>> veneer, or an attitude problem.
>>
>So your response was conformation NOT
>revelation (Atkinson)... I need something
>stronger in my morning coffee.
>
>
>> However, Arny's statement is genuinely pathetic,
>> because it shows how much he really relies on
>> this group for his self-identity. It means he doesn't
>> have much else.
>>
>Yea, so what... Zzzzzz?
>
>It would seem Arny has rao and you have
>ram... based on the description you just
>presented.
>
>
>> Which makes me sad.
>>
>Mmmmm... Buddha said life has two
>components... change and decay. Get
>some enlightenment or just keep muttering
>along the best you can, Robert :).

Are you sure he wasn't just talking about capacitors?

MiNE 109

September 16th 03, 04:59 PM

S888Wheel

September 16th 03, 05:23 PM

<<
Do you know Bobby Fisher character specificity ?

>>

What a ridiculous comparison.

Lionel

September 16th 03, 06:03 PM

S888Wheel a écrit :
> <<
> Do you know Bobby Fisher character specificity ?
>
> >>
>
>
> What a ridiculous comparison.

This is your point of view...
....but I now remember that's your turn to make a move.
Let's wait and see.

Lionel

S888Wheel

September 16th 03, 07:19 PM

>
>This is your point of view...
>...but I now remember that's your turn to make a move.
>Let's wait and see.
>
>Lionel

Nope. It's still Arny's.

George M. Middius

September 16th 03, 11:43 PM

"Lionel Chapuis" (LOL! LOt"S!) said:

> > Nope. It's still Arny's.

> I think that his silence sounds like an answer.

You still sound like une vache folle. Watch out for the chiggers.

S888Wheel

September 17th 03, 02:11 AM

Phil said

<<

Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of chess, he may
not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the scholar's
mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
>>

You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 17th 03, 02:37 AM

George M. Middius

September 17th 03, 02:52 AM

Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

> Your first mention of so called Fox blowhards was in your previous post,
> the one where you claimed that they were the subject of your much earlier
> post.

They should be the subject of a firing squad.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 17th 03, 05:37 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sockpuppet Yustabe said:
>
> > Your first mention of so called Fox blowhards was in your previous post,
> > the one where you claimed that they were the subject of your much
earlier
> > post.
>
> They should be the subject of a firing squad.
>
>

I admire your commitment to free speech.
"at least" for those that agree with you.

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 17th 03, 05:43 AM

"MiNE 109" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
>
> > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > In article >,
> > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > news:smcatut->
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >> It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and
disregard
> > for
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > truth
> > > > > > > > > > > that drives the worst of US politics.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Yes, very good indeed. Let's blame Arnie for all of our
> > > > > > > > > > political shortcomings. Clinton, Bush and Davis are off
the
> > > > hook.
> > > > > > > > > > If we could only recall Arnie.......
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Did you ever miss the point...
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is evident that it was you that missed the point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'll play the "mutual incomprehension" card.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would too, could I understand what you are saying.
> > > > >
> > > > > Were you being ironic with the "let's blame Arnie" bit? It looked
like
> > > > > you took my point and turned it sideways, that I was blaming Arny
for
> > > > > politics when I was suggesting a similarity between Arny and
> > > > > Fox/talk-radio type blowhards.
> > >
> > > > I was being sarcastic.
> > >
> > > Then I made my point, and you reinforced it by responding as if I had
> > > blamed Arny for "all our political shortcomings". As I hadn't, I
assumed
> > > you missed the point. Since you seem generally sane but your sarcasm
was
> > > so far off the mark, I thought you had misunderstood me.
> > >
> > > Ta.
> > >
> > Your first mention of so called Fox blowhards was in your previous post,
> > the one where you claimed that they were the subject of your much
earlier
> > post.
> >
> > Excuuuuuse me!!!!!
>
> I tried to avoid attracting knee-jerk responses by referring to "the
> worst of US politics" rather than being specific. Your response missed
> the point no matter who I had in mind.
>

I took it to mean current politics.
Was it your intent to refer to ALL American politics, Democrat and
Republican?
If so, you have my apoligies, and sorry for the misunderstanding.
In that case I would agree with you. The American political
climate is disgusting. "At least" we don't have fisitcuffs on the
floor of Congress (well, "at least" not yet). The hatred level and the
disrespect between
sides is too high. It wasn't like that when I was younger.

The middle is being squeezed. It seems there is veryt little viable middle
ground.

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George M. Middius

September 17th 03, 05:43 AM

Sockpuppet Yustabe said:

> > They should be the subject of a firing squad.

> I admire your commitment to free speech.
> "at least" for those that agree with you.

The right to free speech ends where incitement to harm others
begins.

Lionel

September 17th 03, 09:10 AM

S888Wheel a écrit :
> <<
> I think that his silence sounds like an answer. >>
>
>
> ... by the way, this has nothing to do
> with chess.

This is why you'll never win your battle !

Lionel

September 17th 03, 09:16 AM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:49:17 +0200, Lionel
> <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>
>
>>S888Wheel a écrit :
>>
>>>>This is your point of view...
>>>>...but I now remember that's your turn to make a move.
>>>>Let's wait and see.
>>>>
>>>>Lionel
>>>
>>>
>>>Nope. It's still Arny's.
>>
>>I think that his silence sounds like an answer.
>
>
> No, it sounds like he's on his annual vacation for a week.
>
.... And he sleep well !
Mr. Wheel's threat doesn't give him nightmares. ;-)

Lionel

September 17th 03, 09:19 AM

S888Wheel a écrit :
> Phil said
>
> <<
>
> Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of chess, he may
> not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the scholar's
> mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
> >>
>
>
> You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.

At chess ?...
Hmm, hmm !
You are right at *chess* it seems to be difficult !
LOL

MiNE 109

September 17th 03, 01:43 PM

In article >,
"Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:

> "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> >
> > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > > > > In article >,
> > > > > > > > > > "Sockpuppet Yustabe" > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > "MiNE 109" > wrote in message
> > > > > news:smcatut->
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >> It's like the narcissism, lack of empathy, and
> disregard
> > > for
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > truth
> > > > > > > > > > > > that drives the worst of US politics.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Yes, very good indeed. Let's blame Arnie for all of our
> > > > > > > > > > > political shortcomings. Clinton, Bush and Davis are off
> the
> > > > > hook.
> > > > > > > > > > > If we could only recall Arnie.......
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Did you ever miss the point...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It is evident that it was you that missed the point.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll play the "mutual incomprehension" card.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would too, could I understand what you are saying.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Were you being ironic with the "let's blame Arnie" bit? It looked
> like
> > > > > > you took my point and turned it sideways, that I was blaming Arny
> for
> > > > > > politics when I was suggesting a similarity between Arny and
> > > > > > Fox/talk-radio type blowhards.
> > > >
> > > > > I was being sarcastic.
> > > >
> > > > Then I made my point, and you reinforced it by responding as if I had
> > > > blamed Arny for "all our political shortcomings". As I hadn't, I
> assumed
> > > > you missed the point. Since you seem generally sane but your sarcasm
> was
> > > > so far off the mark, I thought you had misunderstood me.
> > > >
> > > > Ta.
> > > >
> > > Your first mention of so called Fox blowhards was in your previous post,
> > > the one where you claimed that they were the subject of your much
> earlier
> > > post.
> > >
> > > Excuuuuuse me!!!!!
> >
> > I tried to avoid attracting knee-jerk responses by referring to "the
> > worst of US politics" rather than being specific. Your response missed
> > the point no matter who I had in mind.
> >
>
> I took it to mean current politics.
> Was it your intent to refer to ALL American politics, Democrat and
> Republican?

Yes, insofar as it meets my description.

> If so, you have my apoligies, and sorry for the misunderstanding.
> In that case I would agree with you. The American political
> climate is disgusting. "At least" we don't have fisitcuffs on the
> floor of Congress (well, "at least" not yet). The hatred level and the
> disrespect between
> sides is too high. It wasn't like that when I was younger.

> The middle is being squeezed. It seems there is veryt little viable middle
> ground.

It's a cliche that politics is the art of compromise. Partisanship makes
it harder to do.

Stephen

dave weil

September 17th 03, 01:47 PM

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:16:27 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:49:17 +0200, Lionel
>> <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>S888Wheel a écrit :
>>>
>>>>>This is your point of view...
>>>>>...but I now remember that's your turn to make a move.
>>>>>Let's wait and see.
>>>>>
>>>>>Lionel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nope. It's still Arny's.
>>>
>>>I think that his silence sounds like an answer.
>>
>>
>> No, it sounds like he's on his annual vacation for a week.
>>
>... And he sleep well !
>Mr. Wheel's threat doesn't give him nightmares. ;-)

I wonder how well he *does* sleep without the chance to pound the
keyboard on RAO.

pyjamarama

September 17th 03, 02:25 PM

George M. Middius > wrote in message >...
> Sockpuppet Yustabe said:
>
> > > They should be the subject of a firing squad.
>
> > I admire your commitment to free speech.
> > "at least" for those that agree with you.
>
> The right to free speech ends where incitement to harm others
> begins.

You mean like saying, "They should be the subject of a firing squad?"

You mean THAT kind of incitement to harm others?

Fascist jerk.

Lionel

September 17th 03, 02:47 PM

MiNE 109 a écrit :

> It's a cliche that politics is the art of compromise. Partisanship makes
> it harder to do.
>
> Stephen

Sorry Stephen but the above also looks like a cliche.

Lionel

S888Wheel

September 17th 03, 04:36 PM

>
>This is why you'll never win your battle !
>

There is no battle. Arny created a problem. Either he can fix it or I will.
Either way it will be fixed.

MiNE 109

September 17th 03, 04:49 PM

In article >,
Lionel <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:

> MiNE 109 a écrit :
>
> > It's a cliche that politics is the art of compromise. Partisanship makes
> > it harder to do.

> Sorry Stephen but the above also looks like a cliche.

No, it's a truism.

Stephen

Lionel

September 17th 03, 06:08 PM

S888Wheel a écrit :
>>This is why you'll never win your battle !
>>
>
>
> There is no battle. Arny created a problem. Either he can fix it or I will.
> Either way it will be fixed.

Ok, ok !
I don't want to insist on that but you have put it on a public media.

I don't tell you that Mr. Krueger is not the source of the of the problem.
I'm just telling you that you have a conflict with Mr. Krueger, perhaps
you will sue him and if so you will finally lost.
You believe too much in your "good" right, you will lost this party.

I have already told you that : a lot of guys seems to be interested in
this matter, so ask them for money !

S888Wheel

September 17th 03, 06:14 PM

>
>Ok, ok !
>I don't want to insist on that but you have put it on a public media.
>

I was libeled on the same public media. It was appropriate for me to put my
grievence on that same public media and demanda retraction.

>
>I don't tell you that Mr. Krueger is not the source of the of the problem.
>I'm just telling you that you have a conflict with Mr. Krueger, perhaps
>you will sue him and if so you will finally lost.

Or perhaps I will win.

>
>You believe too much in your "good" right, you will lost this party.
>

No. I believe in my right to protect my reputation as far as the law allows me
to. Maybe if you knew the laws in question you would see that. Maybe.

>
>I have already told you that : a lot of guys seems to be interested in
>this matter, so ask them for money !

Money is not an issue or a problem in this case.

Lionel

September 17th 03, 06:16 PM

S888Wheel a écrit :

>>Ok, ok !
>>I don't want to insist on that but you have put it on a public media.
>>
>
>
> I was libeled on the same public media. It was appropriate for me to put my
> grievence on that same public media and demanda retraction.
>
>
>>I don't tell you that Mr. Krueger is not the source of the of the problem.
>>I'm just telling you that you have a conflict with Mr. Krueger, perhaps
>>you will sue him and if so you will finally lost.
>
>
> Or perhaps I will win.
>
>
>>You believe too much in your "good" right, you will lost this party.
>>
>
>
> No. I believe in my right to protect my reputation as far as the law allows me
> to. Maybe if you knew the laws in question you would see that. Maybe.
>
>
>>I have already told you that : a lot of guys seems to be interested in
>>this matter, so ask them for money !
>
>
> Money is not an issue or a problem in this case.

....Good luck.

Lionel

Powell

September 17th 03, 07:06 PM

"George M. Middius" wrote

> Powell gibbered:
>
> > Mmmmm... Buddha said life has two
> > components... change and decay. Get
> > some enlightenment or just keep muttering
> > along the best you can, Robert :).
>
> In case I've never said it before, Powie, you're
> not as bad as a Jesus freak.
>
Is this a safe place to be on the rao food
chain... passivist :).

Lionel

September 17th 03, 10:34 PM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 10:16:27 +0200, Lionel
> > wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:49:17 +0200, Lionel
>>><lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>S888Wheel a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>This is your point of view...
>>>>>>...but I now remember that's your turn to make a move.
>>>>>>Let's wait and see.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Nope. It's still Arny's.
>>>>
>>>>I think that his silence sounds like an answer.
>>>
>>>
>>>No, it sounds like he's on his annual vacation for a week.
>>>
>>
>>... And he sleep well !
>>Mr. Wheel's threat doesn't give him nightmares. ;-)
>
>
> I wonder how well he *does* sleep without the chance to pound the
> keyboard on RAO.

Do you mean he is *obliged* to leave for vacation ?

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 18th 03, 04:31 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sockpuppet Yustabe said:
>
> > > They should be the subject of a firing squad.
>
> > I admire your commitment to free speech.
> > "at least" for those that agree with you.
>
> The right to free speech ends where incitement to harm others
> begins.
>
>

" They should be the subject of a firing squad."

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Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 18th 03, 08:16 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Sockpuppet Yustabe said:
>
> > > > > They should be the subject of a firing squad.
> > >
> > > > I admire your commitment to free speech.
> > > > "at least" for those that agree with you.
> > >
> > > The right to free speech ends where incitement to harm others
> > > begins.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > " They should be the subject of a firing squad."
>
> If you're insinuating that I'm inciting others to harm those
> ****heads, I'll point out that I meant as the result of due process
> of law. Because it is those talk-radio blowhards who incite riotous,
> hate-based violence against minorities, they are the ones who should
> be punished by our system of laws.
>

You have no legal, moral or ethical basis to charge that. Most
of the hate I here nowadays is from the left. That's where
I came from, till they sickened me by vioating all the positive and
moral principals I beleive in, the ones that got me there in the first
place,
till the left morphed into the rigid, doctrinaire, unworkable mess its in
today.

There is no due process of law that would result in your desired
demise of those folks. That's because there is no evidence of
riotous hate-based violence against minorities.

If you count up violent crimes between the races, you will find much
more crime perpetrated by minorities against whites than of
whites against minorities. Not that those have crimes have been incited
by any polititcal commentators.

Your comments are the perfect example of why the left turned me off.
I am tired of their lies, baseless charges, and hatred of anyone who
doesn't go with the program.

> However, if some anarchist out there interpreted my dictum to mean
> he should pick up his shotgun and go hunt down Rush Limbaugh, be
> assured that is not what I meant. If you must do something, send
> S.Y. some of the hate propaganda that emanates from his blowhard
> heroes on talk radio.
>

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Lionel

September 18th 03, 08:41 AM

Sockpuppet Yustabe a écrit :

>
> You have no legal, moral or ethical basis to charge that. Most
> of the hate I here nowadays is from the left. That's where
> I came from, till they sickened me by vioating all the positive and
> moral principals I beleive in, the ones that got me there in the first
> place,
> till the left morphed into the rigid, doctrinaire, unworkable mess its in
> today.
>
I understand that but I think that you mistaked culpability mood and
political action.
Let's try again putting things at their right place and everything will
go smoothly.

JBorg

September 18th 03, 09:55 AM

> Lionel wrote:

>
> Do you mean he is *obliged* to leave for vacation ?

No! In prison. He's goin to prison soon, I hope, where he could put his
shiny a***ole to good use for the asking... he's going to need many
favors his way.

First, a keyboard is a must, but it will cost him. I don't know how much
do you? Bring me your well-known clever analyzer about this.

"Been there, done that!," he will be proud to say when he return.

Now let me have your point too.

pyjamarama

September 18th 03, 01:16 PM

George M. Middius > wrote in message >...
> Sockpuppet Yustabe said:
>
> > > > > They should be the subject of a firing squad.
>
> > > > I admire your commitment to free speech.
> > > > "at least" for those that agree with you.
> > >
> > > The right to free speech ends where incitement to harm others
> > > begins.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > " They should be the subject of a firing squad."

Middius' descent into pure Kroogthought nears completion:

>
> If you're insinuating that I'm inciting others to harm those
> ****heads, I'll point out that I meant as the result of due process
> of law. Because it is those talk-radio blowhards who incite riotous,
> hate-based violence against minorities, they are the ones who should
> be punished by our system of laws.

Can you cite any examples of incitement by these "talk-radio
blowhards?"

How about any examples of the "riotous, hate-based violence against
minorities" as a result of this supposed incitement?

Or is this all "true" simply because you think it is?

C'mon George, show all of us you can control those voices inside your
head...

Give us some evidence.

>
> However, if some anarchist out there interpreted my dictum to mean
> he should pick up his shotgun and go hunt down Rush Limbaugh, be
> assured that is not what I meant. If you must do something, send
> S.Y. some of the hate propaganda that emanates from his blowhard
> heroes on talk radio.

Sockpuppet Yustabe

September 18th 03, 07:20 PM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> I understand that but I think that you mistaked culpability mood and
> political action.
> Let's try again putting things at their right place and everything will
> go smoothly.
>

Ignorance ignored.

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Lionel

September 18th 03, 07:34 PM

Sockpuppet Yustabe a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>I understand that but I think that you mistaked culpability mood and
>>political action.
>>Let's try again putting things at their right place and everything will
>>go smoothly.
>>
>
>
> Ignorance ignored.
>
>
You are right the answer is surely somewhere else !
LOL

Phil

September 19th 03, 12:34 AM

"S888Wheel" > wrote in message
...
> Phil said
>
> <<
>
> Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of chess, he
may
> not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the scholar's
> mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
> >>
>
>
> You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.

Beginners are often caught by the scholar's mate or variations there of and
that is the point if one uses chess as one's metaphor.

Phil

George M. Middius

September 19th 03, 12:54 AM

Phil said:

> > You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
>
> Beginners are often caught by the scholar's mate or variations there of and
> that is the point if one uses chess as one's metaphor.

The real point, as made by Mister Wheeler, is that Krooger is
incapable of admitting he doesn't know how to play chess.

Lionel

September 19th 03, 01:22 AM

George M. Middius a écrit :
>
> Phil said:
>
>
>>>You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
>>
>>Beginners are often caught by the scholar's mate or variations there of and
>>that is the point if one uses chess as one's metaphor.
>
>
> The real point, as made by Mister Wheeler, is that Krooger is
> incapable of admitting he doesn't know how to play chess.
>

The real point Middius is that since more than 5 years you try to push
Krueger out of RAO with the success we know.

Wheeler perfectly knows Krueger's behaviour and he instisted to discuss
with him...

Trotsky knows that if he asks to RAO to be brutally honest, RAO will be
brutally...

After that they cry like babies because they heard unpleasant words.
Obviously they always find a "flies ****er" to tell them that they are
right. This is all waste of time and energy.

Lionel

dave weil

September 19th 03, 01:35 AM

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:

>This is all waste of time and energy.
>
>Lionel

Lionel

September 19th 03, 01:52 AM

Phil a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Phil a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>S888Wheel a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Phil said
>>>>>
>>>>><<
>>>>>
>>>>>Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of chess, he
>>>
>>>may
>>>
>>>
>>>>>not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the
>>>
>>>scholar's
>>>
>>>
>>>>>mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
>>>>
>>>>At chess ?...
>>>>Hmm, hmm !
>>>>You are right at *chess* it seems to be difficult !
>>>>LOL
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm sure you think this response shows great wit but the humor escapes
>
> me.
>
>>>Phil
>>>
>>>
>>
>>But I like and I relapse, I'm afraid it's not the only thing which
>>"escapes" you
>>
>>Lionel
>>
>
> Lionel, a witty person would have explained his obtuse remarks, a fool who
> tries to hide his lack of wit would just claim his right, insult and run
> away. Now, which are you?
>
> Phil
>
>
Witty persons don't make any effort to understand.
I just want to say that here the rules are not chess' ones and so you
can be mated in less than 4 moves or I'd better say in less than 4 rounds !

Lionel

September 19th 03, 02:00 AM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> > wrote:
>
>
>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>
>>Lionel
>
>
Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
message make me fear.
I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
driver magnet.

Phil

September 19th 03, 02:01 AM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Phil a écrit :
> > "Lionel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Phil a écrit :
> >>
> >>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>S888Wheel a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Phil said
> >>>>>
> >>>>><<
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of chess,
he
> >>>
> >>>may
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the
> >>>
> >>>scholar's
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
> >>>>
> >>>>At chess ?...
> >>>>Hmm, hmm !
> >>>>You are right at *chess* it seems to be difficult !
> >>>>LOL
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I'm sure you think this response shows great wit but the humor escapes
> >
> > me.
> >
> >>>Phil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>But I like and I relapse, I'm afraid it's not the only thing which
> >>"escapes" you
> >>
> >>Lionel
> >>
> >
> > Lionel, a witty person would have explained his obtuse remarks, a fool
who
> > tries to hide his lack of wit would just claim his right, insult and run
> > away. Now, which are you?
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> Witty persons don't make any effort to understand.
> I just want to say that here the rules are not chess' ones and so you
> can be mated in less than 4 moves or I'd better say in less than 4 rounds
!
>
>
A witty person, under your definition, knows nothing, because he does not
try to understand anything. That would seem to be a bit of a contradiction,
would it not. And that sir is check and mate, in two moves, not a scholar's
mate, that's four moves, but a fool's mate. You lost so easily because your
wit is in your ego and not your pen or on the page.

Phil

Lionel

September 19th 03, 02:04 AM

George M. Middius a écrit :
>
> Lionella shrilled:
>
>
>>>The real point, as made by Mister Wheeler, is that Krooger is
>>>incapable of admitting he doesn't know how to play chess.
>
>
>
>>The real point
>
>
> [snip PMS-induced rant]
>
>
> Are you not having the Midol type of drug available for les femmes
> in France, Missy?
>
>
Georgetta, you dodge all the questions and you pretend to get answers !
What a fool you are.

George M. Middius

September 19th 03, 02:11 AM

Lionella simpered:

> > [snip PMS-induced rant]

> > Are you not having the Midol type of drug available for les femmes
> > in France, Missy?

> Georgetta

Too bad you didn't think of that yourself, retardella. In fact, you
stole it without acknowledgement from one of those Angry White
Christian Men of middle age. They are a huge tribe here in America,
you know. Or, more likely, you don't know. They listen avidly to
Hate Radio, they think America is Godless, they believe Fox News is
impartial, and they are both fervidly against abortion and in favor
of capital punishment.

This is the type of person from whom you take your inspiration,
Bitch. Are you sane enough to understand that?

You may now call me and Boonie more names, since that's the only
kind of retort you're capable of delivering.

Marc Phillips

September 19th 03, 02:11 AM

Lionel said:

>George M. Middius a écrit :
>>
>> Phil said:
>>
>>
>>>>You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
>>>
>>>Beginners are often caught by the scholar's mate or variations there of and
>>>that is the point if one uses chess as one's metaphor.
>>
>>
>> The real point, as made by Mister Wheeler, is that Krooger is
>> incapable of admitting he doesn't know how to play chess.
>>
>
>The real point Middius is that since more than 5 years you try to push
>Krueger out of RAO with the success we know.
>
>Wheeler perfectly knows Krueger's behaviour and he instisted to discuss
>with him...
>
>Trotsky knows that if he asks to RAO to be brutally honest, RAO will be
>brutally...
>
>After that they cry like babies because they heard unpleasant words.
>Obviously they always find a "flies ****er" to tell them that they are
>right. This is all waste of time and energy.

I agree. Trying to make sense out of your nonsensical posts is definitely a
waste of time and energy.

Boon

Lionel

September 19th 03, 02:50 AM

George M. Middius a écrit :
>
> Lionella simpered:
>
>
>>>[snip PMS-induced rant]
>
>
>>>Are you not having the Midol type of drug available for les femmes
>>>in France, Missy?
>
>
>>Georgetta
>
>
> Too bad you didn't think of that yourself, retardella. In fact, you
> stole it without acknowledgement from one of those Angry White
> Christian Men of middle age. They are a huge tribe here in America,
> you know. Or, more likely, you don't know. They listen avidly to
> Hate Radio, they think America is Godless, they believe Fox News is
> impartial, and they are both fervidly against abortion and in favor
> of capital punishment.
>
> This is the type of person from whom you take your inspiration,
> Bitch. Are you sane enough to understand that?
>
> You may now call me and Boonie more names, since that's the only
> kind of retort you're capable of delivering.
>
>
>
I don't take any inspiration of anybody, and speaking about your ghosts,
I have the same here!

Imagine, one second, that we share the same convictions concerning those
crazy extremists do you think that your way of fight them is better than
mine ? Are you sure that "the middle class American" Boonie-boy will not
suddenly let you on this side to join them on the other ?

You know Middius I have a little political experience here and I have
seen too much guy (also friends of mine) leave from socialism for our Mr
Le Pen !

But I must remember you that the first time I have posted to your direct
attention you was speaking using the same words than Mr. Denis Prager...
Who take his inspiration from Angry White Christian Men of middle age ?
I guess this is an other question you will carefully avoid to answer !

Lionel

Phil

September 19th 03, 03:15 AM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Phil a écrit :
> > "Lionel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Phil a écrit :
> >>
> >>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Phil a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>S888Wheel a écrit :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Phil said
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>><<
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of
chess,
> >
> > he
> >
> >>>>>may
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>scholar's
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>At chess ?...
> >>>>>>Hmm, hmm !
> >>>>>>You are right at *chess* it seems to be difficult !
> >>>>>>LOL
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I'm sure you think this response shows great wit but the humor
escapes
> >>>
> >>>me.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>Phil
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>But I like and I relapse, I'm afraid it's not the only thing which
> >>>>"escapes" you
> >>>>
> >>>>Lionel
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Lionel, a witty person would have explained his obtuse remarks, a fool
> >
> > who
> >
> >>>tries to hide his lack of wit would just claim his right, insult and
run
> >>>away. Now, which are you?
> >>>
> >>>Phil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>Witty persons don't make any effort to understand.
> >>I just want to say that here the rules are not chess' ones and so you
> >>can be mated in less than 4 moves or I'd better say in less than 4
rounds
> >
> > !
> >
> >>
> > A witty person, under your definition, knows nothing, because he does
not
> > try to understand anything. That would seem to be a bit of a
contradiction,
> > would it not. And that sir is check and mate, in two moves, not a
scholar's
> > mate, that's four moves, but a fool's mate. You lost so easily because
your
> > wit is in your ego and not your pen or on the page.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> I lost innocently because I don't understand the above and I don't play
> chess.

If you don't know the game don't play or pretend that you can. Admission of
ones limitation shows good will, trying to hide behind blather and insult
shows the reverse.
> Moreover I'm not enough intelligent to give any good definition of a
> witty person, can you ?

I was using the classical definition. A witty person is a person of
education and intelligence. A person with these qualities was believe to the
colloquial talent of clever repartee.
>
> I must add that I'm a little bit surprised by your kind but sudden and
> gesticulating attention. In your discussion with Mr. Krueger you seemed
> me a man full of self-control, a possible lawyer for Mr. Wheeler.
> I will add to finish that if Mr. wheeler has been *really* bruised by
> Mr. Krueger's writings, I'd hope sincerely that he will be able to go to
> the end of his action in law.
>
> Lionel

I am not a lawyer. My education is in engineering but my father was a
lawyer, a law professor , and dean of a law school. Because of this I'm
familiar with the law and those who practice it. Arny's arguments, showed a
person, who had no idea what the nature of the law is and when even politely
corrected, he reacted with his predictable vitriol. Although ,Mr. Wheeler
could bring a suit, proving harm, I think, will prove to be difficult, thus
the legal action should end, but that is an issue for Wheeler, not I, it is
only my opinion.

Phil
>

S888Wheel

September 19th 03, 03:47 AM

>
>Beginners are often caught by the scholar's mate or variations there of and
>that is the point if one uses chess as one's metaphor.
>
>Phil

Oh, I understand and didn't mean to imply you were wrong. I was just pointing
out what sort of chess player would be suckered like this.

dave weil

September 19th 03, 12:35 PM

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
<lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>
>>>>>Lionel
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>message make me fear.
>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>driver magnet.
>>
>>
>> Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>
>This was supposed to be sarcastic...

Yes, I know.

>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.

I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.

Lionel

September 19th 03, 12:43 PM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
> <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>driver magnet.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>
>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>
>
> Yes, I know.
>
>
>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>
>
> I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.

You guess well.

dave weil

September 19th 03, 01:23 PM

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:20 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
>> <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>>driver magnet.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>>
>>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>>
>>
>> Yes, I know.
>>
>>
>>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>>
>>
>> I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.
>
>You guess well.

Figures.

Well, maybe eventually you'll weary of forcing the same bull**** on
us.

Lionel

September 19th 03, 01:51 PM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:20 +0200, Lionel
> > wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
>>><lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>>>driver magnet.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>>>
>>>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, I know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>>>
>>>
>>>I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.
>>
>>You guess well.
>
>
> Figures.
>
> Well, maybe eventually you'll weary of forcing the same bull**** on
> us.

Us ? Are you also schizophrenic ? How many are you ? Are you Dave but
also Boon, Middius, Trotsky, Phil, Krueger perhaps ?
I never forced anything on you, but kind jokes.
You chose to defend Trotsky's business, it's up to you, I can understand
but I cannot help myself to caution you when you seem too much ridiculous !

Lionel

--
"Keep the bugs off your glass and the bears off your ass"
Bad Plus

dave weil

September 19th 03, 01:58 PM

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:51:08 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:20 +0200, Lionel
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
>>>><lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>>>>driver magnet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>>>>
>>>>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes, I know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.
>>>
>>>You guess well.
>>
>>
>> Figures.
>>
>> Well, maybe eventually you'll weary of forcing the same bull**** on
>> us.
>
>Us ? Are you also schizophrenic ? How many are you ? Are you Dave but
>also Boon, Middius, Trotsky, Phil, Krueger perhaps ?
>I never forced anything on you, but kind jokes.
>You chose to defend Trotsky's business, it's up to you, I can understand
>but I cannot help myself to caution you when you seem too much ridiculous !
>
>Lionel

Why did you send this to me by private mail as well?

Just curious. Are you trying to court me? Is this what Mr. Krueger
would term a "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy?

Lionel

September 19th 03, 02:09 PM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:51:08 +0200, Lionel
> > wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:20 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
>>>>><lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>>>>>driver magnet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Yes, I know.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.
>>>>
>>>>You guess well.
>>>
>>>
>>>Figures.
>>>
>>>Well, maybe eventually you'll weary of forcing the same bull**** on
>>>us.
>>
>>Us ? Are you also schizophrenic ? How many are you ? Are you Dave but
>>also Boon, Middius, Trotsky, Phil, Krueger perhaps ?
>>I never forced anything on you, but kind jokes.
>>You chose to defend Trotsky's business, it's up to you, I can understand
>>but I cannot help myself to caution you when you seem too much ridiculous !
>>
>>Lionel
>
>
> Why did you send this to me by private mail as well?
>
> Just curious. Are you trying to court me? Is this what Mr. Krueger
> would term a "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy?

Don't worry it's just an error, in my menu the "reply to sender" is just
above the "reply to the group". Most of time it doesn't care because
people have "anti-spams traps" in their email address...
....You haven't.
Between you and me Dave I think that you invest too much of yourself in
RAO. A proof ? See your above question !

Lionel

--
"Keep the bugs off your glass and the bears off your ass"
Bad Plus

dave weil

September 19th 03, 02:16 PM

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:09:34 +0200, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:

>dave weil a écrit :
>> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:51:08 +0200, Lionel
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:20 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
>>>>>><lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>>>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>>>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>>>>>>driver magnet.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes, I know.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.
>>>>>
>>>>>You guess well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Figures.
>>>>
>>>>Well, maybe eventually you'll weary of forcing the same bull**** on
>>>>us.
>>>
>>>Us ? Are you also schizophrenic ? How many are you ? Are you Dave but
>>>also Boon, Middius, Trotsky, Phil, Krueger perhaps ?
>>>I never forced anything on you, but kind jokes.
>>>You chose to defend Trotsky's business, it's up to you, I can understand
>>>but I cannot help myself to caution you when you seem too much ridiculous !
>>>
>>>Lionel
>>
>>
>> Why did you send this to me by private mail as well?
>>
>> Just curious. Are you trying to court me? Is this what Mr. Krueger
>> would term a "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy?
>
>
>Don't worry it's just an error, in my menu the "reply to sender" is just
>above the "reply to the group". Most of time it doesn't care because
>people have "anti-spams traps" in their email address...
>...You haven't.

No I don't.

>Between you and me Dave I think that you invest too much of yourself in
>RAO.

Look in the mirror.

> A proof ? See your above question !

I was just curious.

>Lionel

Lionel

September 19th 03, 02:23 PM

dave weil a écrit :
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:09:34 +0200, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:51:08 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:20 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:55:25 +0200, Lionel
>>>>>>><lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:00:59 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>dave weil a écrit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 02:22:50 +0200, Lionel
> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>This is all waste of time and energy.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Lionel
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Sarcastic Dave ! Silently sarcastic. More than any words this blank
>>>>>>>>>>message make me fear.
>>>>>>>>>>I'd better spend time with Mr. Krueger discussing exact weight of a
>>>>>>>>>>driver magnet.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Yes, he'll be back NLT Monday...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>This was supposed to be sarcastic...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, I know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I never wasted time to discuss such foolish subject with Mr. Krueger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I guess others' sarcasm is wasted on you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You guess well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Figures.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, maybe eventually you'll weary of forcing the same bull**** on
>>>>>us.
>>>>
>>>>Us ? Are you also schizophrenic ? How many are you ? Are you Dave but
>>>>also Boon, Middius, Trotsky, Phil, Krueger perhaps ?
>>>>I never forced anything on you, but kind jokes.
>>>>You chose to defend Trotsky's business, it's up to you, I can understand
>>>>but I cannot help myself to caution you when you seem too much ridiculous !
>>>>
>>>>Lionel
>>>
>>>
>>>Why did you send this to me by private mail as well?
>>>
>>>Just curious. Are you trying to court me? Is this what Mr. Krueger
>>>would term a "behind-the-scenes" conspiracy?
>>
>>
>>Don't worry it's just an error, in my menu the "reply to sender" is just
>>above the "reply to the group". Most of time it doesn't care because
>>people have "anti-spams traps" in their email address...
>>...You haven't.
>
>
> No I don't.
>
>
>>Between you and me Dave I think that you invest too much of yourself in
>>RAO.
>
>
> Look in the mirror.

I don't speak in term of time but in term of personal investment.
>
>
>>A proof ? See your above question !
>
>
> I was just curious.

Wrong ! Bad answer
>
>
>>Lionel

--
"Keep the bugs off your glass and the bears off your ass"
Bad Plus

Lionel

September 19th 03, 07:34 PM

dave weil a écrit :

> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:18:50 +0200, Lionel
> <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote:
>
>
>>dave weil a écrit :
>>
>>
>>>So was I. What's strange is how much you've thrown yourself into the
>>>fray, when I'm not sure that you even care about music. You just seem
>>>to be frittering away a fall vacation or something. Weird. I'd be in
>>>Ibiza or something.
>>>
>>
>>You're burning !
>>
>>
>>>>>I was just curious.
>>>>
>>>>Wrong ! Bad answer
>>>
>>>
>>>Ummmm, I think I can judge what my thought process was.
>>
>>False ! You can't. 6 years long. You are too much acclimated !
>
>
> Wrong. I haven't been here that long.
>
>
>>Lionel
>>
>>PS : anyway Dave between adult human being, what is the real difference
>>between very long vacations and very boring life ?
>
>
> I don't know. Why don't you tell me...

Because my parents aren't proud of me !

Phil

September 20th 03, 01:01 AM

"Lionel" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
...
> Phil a écrit :
>
> > "Lionel" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Phil a écrit :
> >>
> >>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Phil a écrit :
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Phil a écrit :
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>S888Wheel a écrit :
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Phil said
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>><<
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Not to be to unkind, but if one was to play Arny in a game of
> >
> > chess,
> >
> >>>he
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>>may
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>not fall for the fool's mate (2 moves) but he would fall for the
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>scholar's
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>mate (4 moves), because he doesn't know the game.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>You have to really suck at chess to be mated in 4 moves.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>At chess ?...
> >>>>>>>>Hmm, hmm !
> >>>>>>>>You are right at *chess* it seems to be difficult !
> >>>>>>>>LOL
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>I'm sure you think this response shows great wit but the humor
> >
> > escapes
> >
> >>>>>me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>Phil
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>But I like and I relapse, I'm afraid it's not the only thing which
> >>>>>>"escapes" you
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Lionel
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Lionel, a witty person would have explained his obtuse remarks, a
fool
> >>>
> >>>who
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>tries to hide his lack of wit would just claim his right, insult and
> >
> > run
> >
> >>>>>away. Now, which are you?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Phil
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Witty persons don't make any effort to understand.
> >>>>I just want to say that here the rules are not chess' ones and so you
> >>>>can be mated in less than 4 moves or I'd better say in less than 4
> >
> > rounds
> >
> >>>!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>A witty person, under your definition, knows nothing, because he does
> >
> > not
> >
> >>>try to understand anything. That would seem to be a bit of a
> >
> > contradiction,
> >
> >>>would it not. And that sir is check and mate, in two moves, not a
> >
> > scholar's
> >
> >>>mate, that's four moves, but a fool's mate. You lost so easily because
> >
> > your
> >
> >>>wit is in your ego and not your pen or on the page.
> >>>
> >>>Phil
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>I lost innocently because I don't understand the above and I don't play
> >>chess.
> >
> >
> > If you don't know the game don't play or pretend that you can. Admission
of
> > ones limitation shows good will, trying to hide behind blather and
insult
> > shows the reverse.
>
> I've never insulted you, you never gave me a good reason for that.

The insult is above, you said, "I'm sure that not the only thing that
"escapes" you." This has the implication of a put down.
>
> >
> >>Moreover I'm not enough intelligent to give any good definition of a
> >>witty person, can you ?
> >
> >
> > I was using the classical definition. A witty person is a person of
> > education and intelligence. A person with these qualities was believe to
the
> > colloquial talent of clever repartee.
>
> Because you seem to be a man who love to split hairs you surely know
> that these are definitions who do not achieve the unanimity.

It is splitting hairs, Lionel, it is how the language is used. Just that you
are not familiar with a typical style does not make it wrong. Just something
you don't know about.

> For example for me a witty person would never discuss *seriously* legal
> point with Mr. Krueger on a public audio forum.
> A witty person will never give any *cheap* advises on a public audio
> forum moreover when the matter is mainly muddy, doubtful, exhibitionist.
> My point is that if a witty person want to enter in such discussion she
> would try to use humour and intelligence to "defuse the bomb".

Couple of things, first in English when the sex is unknown you use the
masculine, so in the above she should be he. Second, I never said I was
witty. The question was about your remark, not about me. You are assuming, a
rather bad habit. Third, Arny made his comment about the law suit based on
incorrect assumptions. I tried to correct those assumption. Your argument
above assumes Arny can make comment but no else can. Arny is so privilge but
no one else is. This seems a bit contradictory.
>
>
> >
> >>I must add that I'm a little bit surprised by your kind but sudden and
> >>gesticulating attention. In your discussion with Mr. Krueger you seemed
> >>me a man full of self-control, a possible lawyer for Mr. Wheeler.
> >>I will add to finish that if Mr. wheeler has been *really* bruised by
> >>Mr. Krueger's writings, I'd hope sincerely that he will be able to go to
> >>the end of his action in law.
> >>
> >>Lionel
> >
> >
> > I am not a lawyer. My education is in engineering but my father was a
> > lawyer, a law professor , and dean of a law school. Because of this I'm
> > familiar with the law and those who practice it. Arny's arguments,
showed a
> > person, who had no idea what the nature of the law is and when even
politely
> > corrected, he reacted with his predictable vitriol. Although ,Mr.
Wheeler
> > could bring a suit, proving harm, I think, will prove to be difficult,
thus
> > the legal action should end, but that is an issue for Wheeler, not I, it
is
> > only my opinion.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> Reading that it seems that your father have involuntarily teach you law,
> but he forgot to teach you modesty and self-derision.
> I use to believe that it's never too late and I guess that if you
> continue to read and to answer to RAO you will learn them at your own
cost.
>
> Lionel
>
I hope you mean, self-deprecating, which means tending to undervalue oneself
and one's abilities. Self-derision would mean, one who has scorn for
oneself, which doesn't seem to fit your context.
As to the issue of modesty, I corrected Arny argument which was based on
misunderstanding of the law. But, it should be mention, that I supported his
conclusion which was answer with abuse. Now if I mention that, following
your method, that Arny is always right, then you would say Arny knows more
than I do, so, the vitriol is well earned. So, I have to give a reason, why
Arny does not have better background. Also, you brought the issue of my
vocation being a lawyer, thus it had to be answer.
As to modesty and self-deprecating, it is a plan perhaps you should follow.
You come like a bull in a china shop, attacking all those horrible enemies
left and right, on issues you seem to know little about. You assume a great
deal. Whether you assume out of logical error or meanness is hard to tell.
My predilection is to assume a lack of ill intent, just a misunderstanding
of context, but it becomes more difficult with time. It is an issue that
you, rather than I, should consider.

Phil

Lionel

September 20th 03, 06:33 AM

Phil a écrit :
> "Lionel" <lionel{dot}chapuis{at}free{dot}fr> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>I've never insulted you, you never gave me a good reason for that.
>
> The insult is above, you said, "I'm sure that not the only thing that
> "escapes" you." This has the implication of a put down.
>
Is it really an insult ?
Sorry for that this was not my intention.

>>Because you seem to be a man who love to split hairs you surely know
>>that these are definitions who do not achieve the unanimity.
>
> It is splitting hairs, Lionel, it is how the language is used. Just that you
> are not familiar with a typical style does not make it wrong. Just something
> you don't know about.
>
>
Thank you for that. Nice, nice "a man who loves splitting hairs", very good.

>>For example for me a witty person would never discuss *seriously* legal
>>point with Mr. Krueger on a public audio forum.
>>A witty person will never give any *cheap* advises on a public audio
>>forum moreover when the matter is mainly muddy, doubtful, exhibitionist.
>>My point is that if a witty person want to enter in such discussion she
>>would try to use humour and intelligence to "defuse the bomb".
>
> Couple of things, first in English when the sex is unknown you use the
> masculine, so in the above she should be he.

In French "person" is a feminine substentive so we use to use "she".
Once again thanks.

Second, I never said I was
> witty.

I never said that you told that, I just try to demonstrate that you
aren't witty. This above accepted place us in a kind of "equality".

The question was about your remark, not about me. You are assuming, a
> rather bad habit. Third, Arny made his comment about the law suit based on
> incorrect assumptions. I tried to correct those assumption. Your argument
> above assumes Arny can make comment but no else can. Arny is so privilge but
> no one else is. This seems a bit contradictory.
>

In my point of view Mr. Krueger is a "little bit special" which in this
case is an euphemism. When you enter in a discussion with him you should
know that the rules are different. This is my only point.

> I hope you mean, self-deprecating, which means tending to undervalue oneself
> and one's abilities. Self-derision would mean, one who has scorn for
> oneself, which doesn't seem to fit your context.

I really don't care, the only thing I know is this is something you haven't.

> As to the issue of modesty, I corrected Arny argument which was based on
> misunderstanding of the law. But, it should be mention, that I supported his
> conclusion which was answer with abuse. Now if I mention that, following
> your method, that Arny is always right, then you would say Arny knows more
> than I do, so, the vitriol is well earned. So, I have to give a reason, why
> Arny does not have better background. Also, you brought the issue of my
> vocation being a lawyer, thus it had to be answer.
> As to modesty and self-deprecating, it is a plan perhaps you should follow.
> You come like a bull in a china shop, attacking all those horrible enemies
> left and right, on issues you seem to know little about. You assume a great
> deal. Whether you assume out of logical error or meanness is hard to tell.
> My predilection is to assume a lack of ill intent, just a misunderstanding
> of context, but it becomes more difficult with time. It is an issue that
> you, rather than I, should consider.
>
> Phil
>
>
Ok Sir, you definitively are a lawyer. This is a typical behaviour. When
you finished with a guy he cannot remember what he was speaking about,
what was the main subject, he is drowned in your verbosity...

Let me just remember you the mixed following :

1. I never attacked you.
2. You started this discussion with me.
3. I don't attack Mr. Wheeler.
4. Mr. Wheeler started this discussion with me.
5. Mr. Wheeler feel that he has been insulted.
6. I am not sure Mr. Krueger has "insulted" Mr. Wheeler.
7. I don't care about this story
8. I told "good luck" to Mr. Wheeler
9. I hope this "coquettery" will not cost, Mr Wheeler, to much money.

Lionel

--
"Keep the bugs off your glass and the bears off your ass"
Bad Plus