A lesson for Mikey

[Robert Morein]

You didn't like it when I "made up facts" about you, ie., "approval" of the
Oklahoma City bombing.
It was intended to illustrate a point of netiquette.

You can see from your own reaction, it is not a nice thing to do. Don't
intepret people's posts to infer things they didn't say. Don't take for
granted what other people say about somebody. If you have any doubt, ask
them what they mean. Arny has been doing this kind of thing for years, and
people really hate him for it. You don't have to be a liar like him.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
> You didn't like it when I "made up facts" about you, ie., "approval" of
> the Oklahoma City bombing.
> It was intended to illustrate a point of netiquette.
>
Got it, you're an idiot.

> You can see from your own reaction, it is not a nice thing to do. Don't
> intepret people's posts to infer things they didn't say.

I never do, I play with people who say stupid things, which is what I do
with you, sometimes. Other times I just pull out something you did say like
the thing about the telescope.

Don't take for
> granted what other people say about somebody. If you have any doubt, ask
> them what they mean. Arny has been doing this kind of thing for years, and
> people really hate him for it. You don't have to be a liar like him.
I have yet to see him tell a flat out lie, he does the same thing I do, he
just fires back the same kind of things people make up about him, like the
bad scientist crap. I've been participating here for longer than you and
I've seen what has been going on. Somebody posts something at odds with
reality and Arny points it out, sometimes pointedly, and people think he's
being a ******* for popping their balloon.

If on some rare occasion, Arny gets some bit of data wrong, he cops to it.

People like George, and others think that because this is an opinion
newsgroup, they should only be subjected to opinions. Actual facts need not
be discussed.

There comes a point when it ought to be clear Arny's not going to stop
letting pseudo-scientific Stereophile/TAS type nonsense go unchallenged.
All the vitriol you guys have come up with over the past decade ought to be
enough to convince you of this fact. Let it go, if you really don't think
it's nice, don't encourage rebuttal, don't rebut. If you must rebut, don't
sink into the muck you claim your opponent is wallowing in. Take the moral
high ground and be done with it.

Over on RAHE people have long drawn out conversations over ABX and still
nothing has changed. The people who know the truth about audio correct the
bull****. The people who beleive the busll****, continue to do so, and
sometimes give up talking about it, some from boredom, some from realizing
there is no validation for their view.

If you can't stand what Arny says, you don't have to read it.

If you continue to fling bull**** it continues to get flung back, so seeing
as your so smart, why is it you haven't grasped that fact? Why don't you be
better than your alleged enemy?

I suspect it is because for most of the people participating, it's not about
imaginined wounds or about cranky dispositions, or alleged lies, it's about
the game, and the game is how can I be insulting enough to make somebody
leave, or just drive them to distraction.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>> You didn't like it when I "made up facts" about you, ie., "approval" of
>> the Oklahoma City bombing.
>> It was intended to illustrate a point of netiquette.
>>
> Got it, you're an idiot.
>
>> You can see from your own reaction, it is not a nice thing to do. Don't
>> intepret people's posts to infer things they didn't say.
>
> I never do, I play with people who say stupid things, which is what I do
> with you, sometimes. Other times I just pull out something you did say
> like the thing about the telescope.
>
Man, you are stupid. Dishonest, too.

[sam]

" > wrote

> Somebody posts something at odds with reality and Arny points it out,
> sometimes pointedly, and people think he's being a ******* for popping
> their balloon.

That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong. If you aren't open to
the possibility that the world isn't flat, then you're the fool.
Go ahead - make my day - tell me the world is obviously flat.

[George Middius]

At last, some self-awareness from Mikey Bug-Eater.

>people who say stupid things, which is what I do

So it's unanimous.

[George Middius]

Robert Morein said to duh-Mikey:

>Man, you are stupid. Dishonest, too.

Mikey aspires to live in a world where everything is made of concrete.

[Robert Morein]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>
>> Somebody posts something at odds with reality and Arny points it out,
>> sometimes pointedly, and people think he's being a ******* for popping
>> their balloon.
>
> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
> held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong. If you aren't open to
> the possibility that the world isn't flat, then you're the fool.
> Go ahead - make my day - tell me the world is obviously flat.
Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
Correction: Are audio bigots.

[George Middius]

Robert Morein said:

>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
>> held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.

>Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
>Correction: Are audio bigots.

Indeed. Like other religious zealots, They hack off bits of science and try to
use them as weapons. Perverting the true nature of science doesn't bother Them
because They are not interested in scientific thought.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> You didn't like it when I "made up facts" about you, ie., "approval" of
>>> the Oklahoma City bombing.
>>> It was intended to illustrate a point of netiquette.
>>>
>> Got it, you're an idiot.
>>
>>> You can see from your own reaction, it is not a nice thing to do. Don't
>>> intepret people's posts to infer things they didn't say.
>>
>> I never do, I play with people who say stupid things, which is what I do
>> with you, sometimes. Other times I just pull out something you did say
>> like the thing about the telescope.
>>
> Man, you are stupid. Dishonest, too.
I got it, in Morein world, if you tell the truth you are a liar.
You and Middius live there, anybody else?

[[email protected]]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>
>> Somebody posts something at odds with reality and Arny points it out,
>> sometimes pointedly, and people think he's being a ******* for popping
>> their balloon.
>
> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.

OSAF.

> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
> held beliefs, could be right

But until they prove it, they are nothing more than guesses.

Just because they haven't been able
> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.

It doesn't mean anything except that they think it.

If you aren't open to
> the possibility that the world isn't flat, then you're the fool.

I'm open to evidence, Arny has some, most others, not so much.

> Go ahead - make my day - tell me the world is obviously flat.
Why would I do that?

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "sam" > wrote in message
> ...
>> " > wrote
>>
>>> Somebody posts something at odds with reality and Arny points it out,
>>> sometimes pointedly, and people think he's being a ******* for popping
>>> their balloon.
>>
>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
>> held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong. If you aren't open to
>> the possibility that the world isn't flat, then you're the fool.
>> Go ahead - make my day - tell me the world is obviously flat.


> Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
> Correction: Are audio bigots.
Correction we skewer audio bigots.
>

[[email protected]]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
>>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
>>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
>>> held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
>>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
>
>>Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
>>Correction: Are audio bigots.
>
> Indeed. Like other religious zealots, They hack off bits of science and
> try to
> use them as weapons. Perverting the true nature of science doesn't bother
> Them
> because They are not interested in scientific thought.
>
Thank you for confessing to the fact that you don't understand scientific
thought.

[[email protected]]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> At last, some self-awareness from Mikey Bug-Eater.
>
>>people who say stupid things, which is what I do
>
> So it's unanimous.
>
Yes, everybody know Middius is an asshole.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "George Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Robert Morein said:
> >
> >>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
> >>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
> >>> held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
> >>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
> >
> >>Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
> >>Correction: Are audio bigots.
> >
> > Indeed. Like other religious zealots, They hack off bits of science and
> > try to
> > use them as weapons. Perverting the true nature of science doesn't
bother
> > Them
> > because They are not interested in scientific thought.
> >
> Thank you for confessing to the fact that you don't understand scientific
> thought.
>
Mikey, we told you not to do that. Don't intepret people's posts to infer
things they didn't say. It just makes you look dumber than you are, which,
considering your weak mental talents, is not advisable.

[George Middius]

Robert Morein said to duh-Mikey:

>> >>Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
>> >>Correction: Are audio bigots.

>> > Indeed. Like other religious zealots, They hack off bits of science and
>> > try to use them as weapons. Perverting the true nature of science doesn't
>> > bother Them because They are not interested in scientific thought.

>> Thank you for confessing to the fact that you don't understand scientific
>> thought.

>Mikey, we told you not to do that. Don't intepret people's posts to infer
>things they didn't say. It just makes you look dumber than you are, which,
>considering your weak mental talents, is not advisable.

Do you think Mickey meant his "claim" seriously? I assumed he was joking. Either
way, it was lame, of course.

Mickey, why don't you clarify. Did you mean that crack seriously or were you
just taking a shot at me? I know you feel I'm the worst of the worst, and Arnii
Krooger is one step away from godhood, and John Atkinson is evil incarnate,
etc., etc. But all I'm asking is whether you were serious or joking.

[dizzy]

wrote:

>"George Middius" > wrote:
>>
>> So it's unanimous.
>
>Yes, everybody know Middius is an asshole.

Not much doubt about that.

[George M. Middius]

Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined your
ragtag militia.

> >> So it's unanimous.
> >
> >Yes, everybody know Middius is an asshole.
>
> Not much doubt about that.

Do you dudes charge membership dues, or is just peeing into a beer cup
from across the room?

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "George Middius" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Robert Morein said:
>> >
>> >>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
>> >>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
>> >>> held beliefs, could be right. Just because they haven't been able
>> >>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
>> >
>> >>Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
>> >>Correction: Are audio bigots.
>> >
>> > Indeed. Like other religious zealots, They hack off bits of science and
>> > try to
>> > use them as weapons. Perverting the true nature of science doesn't
> bother
>> > Them
>> > because They are not interested in scientific thought.
>> >
>> Thank you for confessing to the fact that you don't understand scientific
>> thought.
>>
> Mikey, we told you not to do that. Don't intepret people's posts to infer
> things they didn't say. It just makes you look dumber than you are,
> which,
> considering your weak mental talents, is not advisable.
>
That you don't recognize sarcasm is not MY weakness.

[[email protected]]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said to duh-Mikey:
>
>>> >>Well said. Arny and Mikey act like audio bigots.
>>> >>Correction: Are audio bigots.
>
>>> > Indeed. Like other religious zealots, They hack off bits of science
>>> > and
>>> > try to use them as weapons. Perverting the true nature of science
>>> > doesn't
>>> > bother Them because They are not interested in scientific thought.
>
>>> Thank you for confessing to the fact that you don't understand
>>> scientific
>>> thought.
>
>>Mikey, we told you not to do that. Don't intepret people's posts to infer
>>things they didn't say. It just makes you look dumber than you are,
>>which,
>>considering your weak mental talents, is not advisable.
>
> Do you think Mickey meant his "claim" seriously? I assumed he was joking.
> Either
> way, it was lame, of course.
>
> Mickey, why don't you clarify. Did you mean that crack seriously or were
> you
> just taking a shot at me? I know you feel I'm the worst of the worst,

Only on RAO, in real life you proabably don't insipire people to want to
kill you so much, in fact you're probably not even a tiny bit hideous.

and Arnii
> Krooger is one step away from godhood,

As usual, your fondness for hyperbole doesn't serve the truth. I think Arny
is a usuful guy if you want good info on audio, the only one I would
consider better is dick Pierce,and they tend to agree on virtually
everything.

John Atkinson is evil incarnate,

No, but he is a enabler for idiots. His constant dance around the ABX
question,while entertaining is stilla dance, and he's dishonest about it.

> etc., etc. But all I'm asking is whether you were serious or joking.
>
I'll let you guess.

[[email protected]]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined your
> ragtag militia.
>
>> >> So it's unanimous.
>> >
>> >Yes, everybody know Middius is an asshole.
>>
>> Not much doubt about that.
>
> Do you dudes charge membership dues, or is just peeing into a beer cup
> from across the room?
>
>
Thank you for admitting you pee into beer cups at the bars you frequent.

[sam]

" > wrote

>>> Somebody posts something at odds with reality and Arny points it out,
>>> sometimes pointedly, and people think he's being a ******* for popping
>>> their balloon.
>>
>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
>
> OSAF.

oh - and your statement wasn't?

>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
>> held beliefs, could be right
>
> But until they prove it, they are nothing more than guesses.

Incorrect again. Reality is reality. They could be right. You can't
prove that they aren't.

> Just because they haven't been able
>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
>
> It doesn't mean anything except that they think it.

Thanks for agreeing that they could be right.

> I'm open to evidence, Arny has some...

What evidence are you referring to? That he's an angry person?

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
wrote
> in message ...
> >
> >
> > Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined your
> > ragtag militia.
> >
> >> >> So it's unanimous.
> >> >
> >> >Yes, everybody know Middius is an asshole.
> >>
> >> Not much doubt about that.
> >
> > Do you dudes charge membership dues, or is just peeing into a beer cup
> > from across the room?
> >
> >
> Thank you for admitting you pee into beer cups at the bars you frequent.
>
Mikey, you're doing it again. Pretending that someone "admits" something
that is to your advantage simply outlines that you are a fool of limited
intelligence.
I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.

[ScottW]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...

> I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.

Sounds rather bigoted to me.

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

StupidScottie said:

> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.

> Sounds rather bigoted to me.

Yes, it's called Stupidism. I agree with Robert -- the stupidest people
should shut their yaps and disappear.

Are you still here, Scottie? <G>

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> Mikey, you're doing it again. Pretending that someone "admits" something
> that is to your advantage simply outlines that you are a fool of limited
> intelligence.

Mickey learned that "debating trade" maneuver from the Krooborg. Did you
know Mickey thinks of the Krooborg as a "leader"? His word, not mine.

> I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.

If discriminating because of race makes you a racist, and discriminating
on sex makes you a sexist, why doesn't discriminating because of genetics
make you a geneticist?

Mickey's response: "Thank you for admitting you discriminate because of
genetics."

[dizzy]

On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 20:52:24 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:

>Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined your
>ragtag militia.

That would still place me several steps beyond slime like you, on the
evolutionary scale.

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> StupidScottie said:
>
>> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>
>> Sounds rather bigoted to me.
>
> Yes, it's called Stupidism. I agree with Robert -- the stupidest people
> should shut their yaps and disappear.
>
> Are you still here, Scottie? <G>

If no one reads your post... who has disappeared?

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

dizzy said:

> >Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined your
> >ragtag militia.
>
> That would still place me several steps beyond slime like you, on the
> evolutionary scale.

You're the one who's deathly afraid of chlorine bleach.

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> dizzy said:
>
>> >Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined your
>> >ragtag militia.
>>
>> That would still place me several steps beyond slime like you, on the
>> evolutionary scale.
>
> You're the one who's deathly afraid of chlorine bleach.

Particularly mixed with ammonia, great stuff George... you should try it.

ScottW

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
> wrote
>> in message ...
>> >
>> >
>> > Look, Mickey -- another cowardly anonymous Usenet rodent has joined
>> > your
>> > ragtag militia.
>> >
>> >> >> So it's unanimous.
>> >> >
>> >> >Yes, everybody know Middius is an asshole.
>> >>
>> >> Not much doubt about that.
>> >
>> > Do you dudes charge membership dues, or is just peeing into a beer cup
>> > from across the room?
>> >
>> >
>> Thank you for admitting you pee into beer cups at the bars you frequent.
>>
> Mikey, you're doing it again. Pretending that someone "admits" something
> that is to your advantage simply outlines that you are a fool of limited
> intelligence.

Believing that is what I'm doing makes you a bigger fool.


> I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>
That reminds me, the lab called and they've narrowed your DNA sample down to
2 possibles, hopefully the German Shepherd will be eliminated as well, but
it's too early to say for certain.

[[email protected]]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>
>>>> Somebody posts something at odds with reality and Arny points it out,
>>>> sometimes pointedly, and people think he's being a ******* for popping
>>>> their balloon.
>>>
>>> That's incorrect. Arny has his opinions and he's a jerk about it.
>>
>> OSAF.
>
> oh - and your statement wasn't?
>
>>> People with opposing opinions which happen to be strongly
>>> held beliefs, could be right
>>
>> But until they prove it, they are nothing more than guesses.
>
> Incorrect again. Reality is reality. They could be right. You can't
> prove that they aren't.
>
Whatwas that about proving a negative? As long as your assertion is
unproven, it's just an assertion.

>> Just because they haven't been able
>>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
>>
It is until it's proven. Sorta like the courts, if you can't prove it, it
didn't happen.



>> It doesn't mean anything except that they think it.
>
> Thanks for agreeing that they could be right.
>
I never discount that possibility. I do discount anecdotes as proof.

>> I'm open to evidence, Arny has some...
>
> What evidence are you referring to? That he's an angry person?
That may be, but he produces evidence to make his case, the anti-ABXers,
etc. don't. Mostly it seems people are ****ed at Arny for being supremely
confident, and not being ashamed about it. IME, those types of people are
nearly always feared and slandered.

Bottom line is nobody has to read what he writes. If you don't read it, it
can't upset you.

[sam]

" > wrote
>>
> Whatwas that about proving a negative? As long as your assertion is
> unproven, it's just an assertion.

Incorrect. It is what it is - whether it's asserted or not - whether
it's proven or not.

As you said, it's possible that musical reproduction systems have some
kind of effect on humans that isn't detectable in a listening test.

>>> Just because they haven't been able
>>>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
>>>
> It is until it's proven. Sorta like the courts, if you can't prove it, it
> didn't happen.

Incorrect. It is what it is - whether it's proven or not.

> I never discount that possibility. I do discount anecdotes as proof.

Anecdotes aren't proof. No one presents an anecdote as proof.
There may be strongly held beliefs associated with anecdotes.
And no one can discount those beliefs as untrue or whimsical
because you can't prove a negative. They may be true - just
as yet unproven.

> ....he produces evidence to make his case,

What evidence? He can't prove a negative.

> . Mostly it seems people are ****ed at Arny for being supremely confident,
> and not being ashamed about it.

He has no reason to be confident. He can't prove a negative.
Too bad he's so stuck on his position. He could be the one to
identify the different effects differently designed systems have
on people.

[John Atkinson]

wrote:
> His constant dance around the ABX question,while entertaining is
> stilla dance, and he's dishonest about it.

In what way am I being dishonest, Mr. McKelvy? I am expressing
opinions formed as the result of my quite extensive experience.
If you think this is dishonest, do you think the same about
Arny Krueger's false and unsubstantiated accusations that I
have attacked his children, his wife, and his religious
beliefs? Or that I have welched on a debt I owe him? I
haven't done any of these things, as the record is clear,
yet I don't see you criticizing AK for being "dishonest."

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[George M. Middius]

John Atkinson said:

> > stilla dance, and he's dishonest about it.

> In what way am I being dishonest, Mr. McKelvy? I am expressing
> opinions formed as the result of my quite extensive experience.
> If you think this is dishonest, do you think the same about
> Arny Krueger's false and unsubstantiated accusations that I
> have attacked his children, his wife, and his religious
> beliefs? Or that I have welched on a debt I owe him? I
> haven't done any of these things, as the record is clear,
> yet I don't see you criticizing AK for being "dishonest."

Arnii is Mikey's "leader", you know. And Mikey lauds Arnii for being
"supremely confident", which is definitely not the same as being snotty,
despite the mountains of snottiness evidence.







John Atkinson's parable for dealing with 'borgs: the man with limited or no experience is more confident of his knowledge than the man _with_ such experience.

[[email protected]]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>>>
>> Whatwas that about proving a negative? As long as your assertion is
>> unproven, it's just an assertion.
>
> Incorrect. It is what it is - whether it's asserted or not - whether
> it's proven or not.
>
An assertion is an idea that has not been proven.

> As you said, it's possible that musical reproduction systems have some
> kind of effect on humans that isn't detectable in a listening test.
>
>>>> Just because they haven't been able
>>>>> to PROVE it yet, doesn't mean it's wrong.
>>>>
>> It is until it's proven. Sorta like the courts, if you can't prove it,
>> it didn't happen.
>
> Incorrect. It is what it is - whether it's proven or not.
>
It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.

>> I never discount that possibility. I do discount anecdotes as proof.
>
> Anecdotes aren't proof. No one presents an anecdote as proof.
> There may be strongly held beliefs associated with anecdotes.

Which still means they mean nothing.

> And no one can discount those beliefs as untrue or whimsical
> because you can't prove a negative. They may be true - just
> as yet unproven.
>
Then prove them and stop complaining about how they are criticised because
they have no supporting evidence.

>> ....he produces evidence to make his case,
>
> What evidence? He can't prove a negative.
>
>> . Mostly it seems people are ****ed at Arny for being supremely
>> confident, and not being ashamed about it.
>
> He has no reason to be confident. He can't prove a negative.
> Too bad he's so stuck on his position. He could be the one to
> identify the different effects differently designed systems have
> on people.
What negative is he claiming to have proven?

The simple fact is that in countless ABX DBT's alleged differences
disappear. While you may not consider this as proof that amps, etc sound
the same, it is evidence, and it is relaible. Sighted listening and
comparisons with no bias controls mean nothing.

Real differences are not masked by ABX or any other DBT, they show up time
and again.

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> His constant dance around the ABX question,while entertaining is
>> still a dance, and he's dishonest about it.
>
> In what way am I being dishonest, Mr. McKelvy?

That it, (DBT) would be of no interest to your readers.

I am expressing
> opinions formed as the result of my quite extensive experience.

And opinions are like.....................?
Aren't facts more usuful?
Why not just admit that the first duty you adhere to is the one that keeps
ad dollars coming in, and that accurate reviews of products is a distand
second or third?

[sam]

" > wrote
>>
> An assertion is an idea that has not been proven.

So?

> It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.

Incorrect. Whether or not differences exist is a state of reality.
Differences exist or they don't - whether someone asserts they
exist or not - whether someone proves they exist or not.

>
>>> I never discount that possibility. I do discount anecdotes as proof.
>>
>> Anecdotes aren't proof. No one presents an anecdote as proof.
>> There may be strongly held beliefs associated with anecdotes.
>
> Which still means they mean nothing.

I never said otherwise.

>> And no one can discount those beliefs as untrue or whimsical
>> because you can't prove a negative. They may be true - just
>> as yet unproven.
>>
> Then prove them and stop complaining about how they are criticised because
> they have no supporting evidence.

Eat me, Mike. I don't have to prove ****. I don't intend to prove ****.
Tell your ****ing engineer buddy Arny to prove it.
People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
they Mike?

> The simple fact is that in countless ABX DBT's alleged differences
> disappear. While you may not consider this as proof that amps, etc sound
> the same, it is evidence, and it is relaible.

Evidence of what?

Many people assert they hear differences and when put to the test,
they're unable to support their assertions. No argument.
When people assert that they're unsatisfied or fatigued after extended
listening periods, you have no *evidence* to discount those kinds of
assertions. So eat me.

[ScottW]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>>>
>> An assertion is an idea that has not been proven.
>
> So?
>
>> It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.
>
> Incorrect. Whether or not differences exist is a state of reality.
> Differences exist or they don't - whether someone asserts they
> exist or not - whether someone proves they exist or not.

Except simple differences will always exist. Thats reality.
I don't think manufacturing can make two components
identical to the point that differences can't be found
in testing.

But that doesn't matter because here we're talking
specifically about audible differences.
The state of audibility is a state of perception.
That state can and will vary amongst people.
In this case reality can be different for
different people. It can probably be
different for the same person over time.

Doesn't mean someone who claims audible differences
couldn't prove it, for the moment, with a test.

ScottW

[EddieM]

> sam wrote
>> NYOB123 wrote
>
>snip
>
>
>> I'm open to evidence, Arny has some...
>
> What evidence are you referring to? That he's an angry person?
>

Except for Mikey, Sam, this subthread is a joy to go through.
Mikey is a nutball that is, in inexplicable way, a pleasure to read .

[George Middius]

Tom said:

>> It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.

>Incorrect. Whether or not differences exist is a state of reality.
>Differences exist or they don't - whether someone asserts they
>exist or not - whether someone proves they exist or not.

All this "reality" stuff must be terribly confusing for poor Mikey. He doesn't
inhabit reality; he inhabits the Argument Zone. It's comfortable for him in
there because it's entirely theoretical. Undiscovered facts simply do not exist
for Mikey.

>> Then prove them and stop complaining about how they are criticised because
>> they have no supporting evidence.

>Eat me, Mike. I don't have to prove ****. I don't intend to prove ****.
>Tell your ****ing engineer buddy Arny to prove it.
>People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
>they Mike?

Indeed they were, but according to MikeyLogic, the criticisms were invalid.
Nobody had yet proven the roundness theory, so MikeyLogic says flatness was the
only known state of existence.


>> The simple fact is that in countless ABX DBT's alleged differences
>> disappear. While you may not consider this as proof that amps, etc sound
>> the same, it is evidence, and it is relaible.
>
>Evidence of what?
>
>Many people assert they hear differences and when put to the test,
>they're unable to support their assertions. No argument.
>When people assert that they're unsatisfied or fatigued after extended
>listening periods, you have no *evidence* to discount those kinds of
>assertions. So eat me.

Again, you're flouting MikeyLogic. Granted, the barriers to the Argument Zone
are somewhat fluid, admitting some logical premises but not others. Mikey
"knows" that aBxism has revealed "truth". It's not important how he knows this;
he just knows it. So any data that might vitiate the "truth" that Mikey "knows"
are simply argument fodder, to be quibbled and parsed and caviled until Mikey's
opponent loses his temper and begins battering Mikey about the head and
shoulders (figuratively or literally).


>

[John Atkinson]

" > wrote in
message t>
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> wrote:
>>> His constant dance around the ABX question,while entertaining is
>>> still a dance, and he's dishonest about it.
>>
>> In what way am I being dishonest, Mr. McKelvy?
>
> That it, (DBT) would be of no interest to your readers.

I receive much mail on this subject. As a result, I am certain
that the call for Stereophile's reviews to be based on
double-blind testing comes from a minority of actual readers.
Most of it comes from people like Arny Krueger who are
_not_ readers, to the best of my knowledge.

>> I am expressing opinions formed as the result of my quite
>> extensive experience.
>
> And opinions are like.....................? Aren't facts more
> usuful?

Opinions _based_ on experience and first-hand knowledge, Mr.
McKelvy. I find it curious that some of you ABX advocates
have little or no experience of that which you profess
such faith in.

> Why not just admit that the first duty you adhere to is the
> one that keeps ad dollars coming in, and that accurate reviews
> of products is a distand second or third?

Ah, that old canard. Tell me. Mr. McKelvy, if your statement is
correct, how do you explain the fact that I often give positive
reviews to non-advertisers, or that fact that I publish critical
reviews of products made by advertisers?

And to return to my question, which you conveniently snipped. I
asked:
>> If you think this is dishonest, do you think the same about
>> Arny Krueger's false and unsubstantiated accusations that I
>> have attacked his children, his wife, and his religious
>> beliefs? Or that I have welched on a debt I owe him? I
>> haven't done any of these things, as the record is clear,
>> yet I don't see you criticizing AK for being "dishonest."

You had no reply to what I thought was an unambiguous question.
I asked it because in a previous message in this thread, you were
just as unambiguous regarding your views of Arny Krueger's behavior:

On Friday, 12 Aug 2005 03:30:59 GMT
" > wrote in
message t>
> I have yet to see him [Arny Krueger] tell a flat out lie, he
> does the same thing I do, he just fires back the same kind of
> things people make up about him....If on some rare occasion,
> Arny gets some bit of data wrong, he cops to it.

So I ask again, given that I have _never_ attacked Arny Krueger's
children, his wife, or his religious beliefs and that I do not
owe Mr. Krueger any money, how do you explain his accusations
that I _have_ done all these things, Mr. McKelvy? They are, to
be blunt, "flat-out lies," as the Google record makes clear, yet
you are on record as saying that Mr. Krueger has _never_ told a
"flat-out lie."

And far from "copping" that he was wrong about these matters,
Mr. Krueger has first repeated the lies, without offering any
substantiation, then has ducked out the discussion.

You also say that Arny Krueger abuses people in response to
things they have said about him, yet I have tried very hard
to treat Mr. Krueger with civility, again as the Google record,
which you have said you trust, reveals. How, then do you excuse
the unwarranted accusations he has made of me and the lack of
civility which which he addresses me?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Sander deWaal]

"John Atkinson" > said:

> How, then do you excuse
>the unwarranted accusations he has made of me and the lack of
>civility which which he addresses me?


You're a (the!) heretic.
Relying on sighted tests is insulting all by itself, apparently.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[[email protected]]

John Atkinson:
> >
> > In what way am I being dishonest, Mr. McKelvy? I am expressing
> > opinions formed as the result of my quite extensive experience.
>
>
Mike McKelvy:
>
> And opinions are like.....................?
> Aren't facts more usuful?
> Why not just admit that the first duty you adhere to is the one that keeps
> ad dollars coming in, and that accurate reviews of products is a distant
> second or third?
>
>
Second or third???? You're giving the Slimey Limey _way_ too much
credit! ;-)
>
>
Accurate reviews and an honest editorial position would quickly sink
the good ship Stereophile.

[[email protected]]

Sander deWaal wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > said:
>
> > How, then do you excuse
> >the unwarranted accusations he has made of me and the lack of
> >civility which which he addresses me?
>
>
> You're a (the!) heretic.
> Relying on sighted tests is insulting all by itself, apparently.
>
>
The insult lies not in sighted tests, but in deceiving the readers
(e.g., a positive "review" of Shakti Stones) for the sake of
advertising revenue. Stereophile has morphed from a publication that
sought to serve the interests of it's readers into a publication that
always serves the interests of the advertisers at the expense of the
readers.

[John Atkinson]

Sander deWaal wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > said to
> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
>
> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
> all by itself, apparently.

It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.

But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
is superior to actual reality.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[[email protected]]

Tom Albertz, you are tired and cranky. Get your ass home now, we have
to go out to have our ears candled tonight.
sam wrote:
> " > wrote
> >>
> > An assertion is an idea that has not been proven.
>
> So?
>
> > It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.
>
> Incorrect. Whether or not differences exist is a state of reality.
> Differences exist or they don't - whether someone asserts they
> exist or not - whether someone proves they exist or not.
>
> >
> >>> I never discount that possibility. I do discount anecdotes as proof.
> >>
> >> Anecdotes aren't proof. No one presents an anecdote as proof.
> >> There may be strongly held beliefs associated with anecdotes.
> >
> > Which still means they mean nothing.
>
> I never said otherwise.
>
> >> And no one can discount those beliefs as untrue or whimsical
> >> because you can't prove a negative. They may be true - just
> >> as yet unproven.
> >>
> > Then prove them and stop complaining about how they are criticised because
> > they have no supporting evidence.
>
> Eat me, Mike. I don't have to prove ****. I don't intend to prove ****.
> Tell your ****ing engineer buddy Arny to prove it.
> People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
> they Mike?
>
> > The simple fact is that in countless ABX DBT's alleged differences
> > disappear. While you may not consider this as proof that amps, etc sound
> > the same, it is evidence, and it is relaible.
>
> Evidence of what?
>
> Many people assert they hear differences and when put to the test,
> they're unable to support their assertions. No argument.
> When people assert that they're unsatisfied or fatigued after extended
> listening periods, you have no *evidence* to discount those kinds of
> assertions. So eat me.

[jclause]

>
>It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown



Supporting Ak is quite tricky
It's much like doin' a quickie.
If you don't take care
You'll be the worse for wear
In fact it can get quite sticky...

Hammingaway Inc.

[[email protected]]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>>>
>> An assertion is an idea that has not been proven.
>
> So?
>
>> It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.
>
> Incorrect. Whether or not differences exist is a state of reality.
> Differences exist or they don't - whether someone asserts they
> exist or not - whether someone proves they exist or not.
>
>>
>>>> I never discount that possibility. I do discount anecdotes as proof.
>>>
>>> Anecdotes aren't proof. No one presents an anecdote as proof.
>>> There may be strongly held beliefs associated with anecdotes.
>>
>> Which still means they mean nothing.
>
> I never said otherwise.
>
>>> And no one can discount those beliefs as untrue or whimsical
>>> because you can't prove a negative. They may be true - just
>>> as yet unproven.
>>>
>> Then prove them and stop complaining about how they are criticised
>> because they have no supporting evidence.
>
> Eat me, Mike. I don't have to prove ****. I don't intend to prove ****.
> Tell your ****ing engineer buddy Arny to prove it.
> People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
> they Mike?
>
And until there was evidence to the contrary that was a perfectly reasonable
position. When new evidence is available that shows that DBT's aren't
effective, I'll consider it. There seems to plenty of criticism but no
evidence that something else is better.

>> The simple fact is that in countless ABX DBT's alleged differences
>> disappear. While you may not consider this as proof that amps, etc sound
>> the same, it is evidence, and it is relaible.
>
> Evidence of what?
That there are not many different sounding amps.
>
> Many people assert they hear differences and when put to the test,
> they're unable to support their assertions. No argument.
> When people assert that they're unsatisfied or fatigued after extended
> listening periods, you have no *evidence* to discount those kinds of
> assertions. So eat me.
Stunningly argued.

Fatigue can be from lots of sources, what proof do you or anyone have that
it is because of some aspect of the amp or other equipment, that isn't
already known or tested for?

[sam]

" > wrote

>> People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
>> they Mike?
>>
> And until there was evidence to the contrary that was a perfectly
> reasonable position.

It was an incorrect position. Just as the assertion that music reproduction
systems all have the same effect on human beings unless clipping or broken
may be an incorrect position. You've already agreed with this.

> .......When new evidence is available that shows that DBT's aren't
> effective, I'll consider it. There seems to plenty of criticism but no
> evidence that something else is better.

Jeez Mike, no one said DBT's aren't effective and I'm not criticizing
them for their effective use. What did I say, Mike? You agreed with
it - remember?

Maybe Arny should try to invent something better instead of flapping
his jaw and ****ing people off.

> Fatigue can be from lots of sources, what proof do you or anyone have that
> it is because of some aspect of the amp or other equipment, that isn't
> already known or tested for?

No proof. Just scores of anecdotes which you can no better prove false.

I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the way
around it?

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> " > wrote in
> message t>
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> wrote:
>>>> His constant dance around the ABX question,while entertaining is
>>>> still a dance, and he's dishonest about it.
>>>
>>> In what way am I being dishonest, Mr. McKelvy?
>>
>> That it, (DBT) would be of no interest to your readers.
>
> I receive much mail on this subject. As a result, I am certain
> that the call for Stereophile's reviews to be based on
> double-blind testing comes from a minority of actual readers.

That's part of the dance. Nobody asked you to BASE your reviews on DBT's,
no traw men please.

> Most of it comes from people like Arny Krueger who are
> _not_ readers, to the best of my knowledge.
>

We have been given to understand that your knowledge is limited.

>>> I am expressing opinions formed as the result of my quite
>>> extensive experience.
>>
>> And opinions are like.....................? Aren't facts more
>> usuful?
>
> Opinions _based_ on experience and first-hand knowledge, Mr.
> McKelvy. I find it curious that some of you ABX advocates
> have little or no experience of that which you profess
> such faith in.
>
I have no FAITH in anything. Things are either real or not. The kinds of
differences your reviewers claim to hear are often times at odds with
reality, end of story.

I don't have to stick my hand in the fire to know it burns, but thanks for
yet another straw man.

>> Why not just admit that the first duty you adhere to is the
>> one that keeps ad dollars coming in, and that accurate reviews
>> of products is a distand second or third?
>
> Ah, that old canard. Tell me. Mr. McKelvy, if your statement is
> correct, how do you explain the fact that I often give positive
> reviews to non-advertisers,

Bait.

or that fact that I publish critical
> reviews of products made by advertisers?
>
Because if you published honest reviews, that included DBT's, you'd have a
very boring magazine. It's all kinda meaningless, since the negative
reviews are often no more real than the glowing ones, they are based on the
worst possible scenario for determining if any of the things claimed could
be real.

> And to return to my question, which you conveniently snipped. I
> asked:
>>> If you think this is dishonest, do you think the same about
>>> Arny Krueger's false and unsubstantiated accusations that I
>>> have attacked his children, his wife, and his religious
>>> beliefs?

I think I'm not going to discuyss issues that I haven't any first hand
knowledge of.

I will say if such happend, that they are no better or worse than the
vitriol that has been directed at Arny from a variety of sources. That
doesn't excuse it.
People who get their panties in a twist over what gets said here, probably
shouldn't play here.

That being said, the death of Arny's son should have been and should remain
off limits, and anyone who made such comments, IMO should be shuned, would
you agree?

Or that I have welched on a debt I owe him? I
>>> haven't done any of these things, as the record is clear,
>>> yet I don't see you criticizing AK for being "dishonest."
>
See above.

> You had no reply to what I thought was an unambiguous question.

It's more of your dancing and misdirection, I won't discuss it again in this
thread, if you want to start one and prove your case, I might read that one.

> I asked it because in a previous message in this thread, you were
> just as unambiguous regarding your views of Arny Krueger's behavior:
>
> On Friday, 12 Aug 2005 03:30:59 GMT
> " > wrote in
> message t>
>> I have yet to see him [Arny Krueger] tell a flat out lie, he
>> does the same thing I do, he just fires back the same kind of
>> things people make up about him....If on some rare occasion,
>> Arny gets some bit of data wrong, he cops to it.
>
> So I ask again, given that I have _never_ attacked Arny Krueger's
> children, his wife, or his religious beliefs and that I do not
> owe Mr. Krueger any money, how do you explain his accusations
> that I _have_ done all these things, Mr. McKelvy? They are, to
> be blunt, "flat-out lies," as the Google record makes clear, yet
> you are on record as saying that Mr. Krueger has _never_ told a
> "flat-out lie."
>
> And far from "copping" that he was wrong about these matters,
> Mr. Krueger has first repeated the lies, without offering any
> substantiation, then has ducked out the discussion.
>
> You also say that Arny Krueger abuses people in response to
> things they have said about him, yet I have tried very hard
> to treat Mr. Krueger with civility, again as the Google record,
> which you have said you trust, reveals. How, then do you excuse
> the unwarranted accusations he has made of me and the lack of
> civility which which he addresses me?
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>
How do you explain your constant obfuscations made in you rmagazine?
How do you expalin Fremer attacking Nousaine because of what he daid?

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Sander deWaal wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > said to
>> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
>> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
>> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
>>
>> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
>> all by itself, apparently.
>
> It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
> Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
> condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
> with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
> in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
>
> But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
> statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
> contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
> learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
> is superior to actual reality.
>
I said I had not seen him do it. I also said that when he sometimes has
obviously stretched the truth, that it was in response to same, IME.

You have yet to adequately address why you magazine has zero oversight on
things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo disks, that make people laugh at you
when you try to claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and anyone
with a shred of integrity would be offended to let the glowing reviews that
the dolts at SP penned ever see light of day.

(Begin Dance here)

[[email protected]]

Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
>
> You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has zero oversight on
> things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo disks, that make people laugh at you
> when you try to claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and anyone
> with a shred of integrity would be offended to let the glowing reviews that
> the dolts at SP penned ever see light of day.
>
> (Begin Dance here)
>
>
The "Atkinson Two-step"!

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
oups.com
> Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
>>
>> You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has
>> zero oversight on things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo
>> disks, that make people laugh at you when you try to
>> claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
>> anyone with a shred of integrity would be offended to
>> let the glowing reviews that the dolts at SP penned ever
>> see light of day.

>> (Begin Dance here)

> The "Atkinson Two-step"!

I wonder at Audiophools like Paul Packer and the rest of the
Middius dupes who don't seem to understand that SP's
economically efficacious promotion of snake oil like Shakti
Stones and Mpingo
disks, is based on how incredibly easy it is to manipulate
sighted evaluations.

[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com
> > Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
> >>
> >> You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has
> >> zero oversight on things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo
> >> disks, that make people laugh at you when you try to
> >> claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
> >> anyone with a shred of integrity would be offended to
> >> let the glowing reviews that the dolts at SP penned ever
> >> see light of day.
>
> >> (Begin Dance here)
>
> > The "Atkinson Two-step"!
>
> I wonder at Audiophools like Paul Packer and the rest of the
> Middius dupes who don't seem to understand that SP's
> economically efficacious promotion of snake oil like Shakti
> Stones and Mpingo
> disks, is based on how incredibly easy it is to manipulate
> sighted evaluations.
>
>
Could it be that Shakti Stones, Mpingo disks and other snakeoil crapola
have a "subconcious effect" on the "vibrations"? :-D

[John Atkinson]

wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Sander deWaal wrote:
> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
> >>
> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
> >> all by itself, apparently.
> >
> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
> >
> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
> > is superior to actual reality.
>
> I said I had not seen him do it.

I find this hard to believe, given that you both responded
to the message in which Arny Krueger said I had attacked
his children and subsequently challenged me to state for
the record that Google would not uncover any messages in
which I had atacked Arny's chidren. So I ask again: your
poor memory for your own actions notwithstanding, why,
in the face of the evidence that I haven't done the
things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith that
Arny has never told a "flat-out lie,"to quote from the
section of my message that you snipped?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[John Atkinson]

John Atkinson asked of Mike McKelvy:
> why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't done the
> things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith that
> Arny has never told a "flat-out lie,"to quote from the
> section of my message that you snipped?

Sorry, I didn't mean "snipped," I meant your August 12
posting where you made the unambiguous claim that Arny
Krueger has "never" told a "flat-out lie."

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > Sander deWaal wrote:
> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
> >>
> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
> >> all by itself, apparently.
> >
> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
> >
> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
> > is superior to actual reality.
> >
> I said I had not seen him do it. I also said that when he sometimes has
> obviously stretched the truth, that it was in response to same, IME.

You are negligent. You have made Arny Krueger into your personal idol. If
you must do this, then you owe it to yourself and others to exercise
diligence in understanding this man, what he says, and what he does. It is
incontestable that Arny Krueger has lied many times, persistently, on
multiple occasions, and on multiple subjects. If you haven't seen this, it's
because you don't care to look. If you insist on being a follower, at least
understand what you are following. What a trusting guy you are! Another fate
would find you drinking KoolAid courtesy of Jim Jones.

Do you endorse the idea of stretching the truth because the opponent does
the same? Is your creed "Fight lies with lies" ?

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Sander deWaal wrote:
>> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
>> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
>> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
>> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
>> >>
>> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
>> >> all by itself, apparently.
>> >
>> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
>> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
>> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
>> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
>> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
>> >
>> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
>> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
>> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
>> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
>> > is superior to actual reality.
>>
>> I said I had not seen him do it.
>
> I find this hard to believe, given that you both responded
> to the message in which Arny Krueger said I had attacked
> his children and subsequently challenged me to state for
> the record that Google would not uncover any messages in
> which I had atacked Arny's chidren.

Careful your optional spelling of children (chidren) will get Mr . moreing
tinking you're not too smart.

So I ask again: your
> poor memory for your own actions notwithstanding, why,
> in the face of the evidence that I haven't done the
> things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith that
> Arny has never told a "flat-out lie,"to quote from the
> section of my message that you snipped?
>
>
I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
discussion.

Now, how about answering where the integrity goes when SP prints glowing
reviews of crap like Mpingo disks, or why you can't hire people who won't
get into screaming matches in public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?

The dance continues.

[[email protected]]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>
>>> People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
>>> they Mike?
>>>
>> And until there was evidence to the contrary that was a perfectly
>> reasonable position.
>
> It was an incorrect position.

It wasw factually incorrect, but until new evidence emerged it was the
logical position to hold.

Just as the assertion that music reproduction
> systems all have the same effect on human beings unless clipping or broken
> may be an incorrect position.

But until evidence emerges showing otherwise, it is the correct position to
hold.

You've already agreed with this.
>
I've agreed that there might be data which has not emerged, but until it
does, and may not, since it's likely untrue, then the current position that
things that sound the same don't have any other effects, is the correct one.

>> .......When new evidence is available that shows that DBT's aren't
>> effective, I'll consider it. There seems to plenty of criticism but no
>> evidence that something else is better.
>
> Jeez Mike, no one said DBT's aren't effective and I'm not criticizing
> them for their effective use. What did I say, Mike? You agreed with
> it - remember?
>
> Maybe Arny should try to invent something better instead of flapping
> his jaw and ****ing people off.
>
>> Fatigue can be from lots of sources, what proof do you or anyone have
>> that it is because of some aspect of the amp or other equipment, that
>> isn't already known or tested for?
>
> No proof. Just scores of anecdotes which you can no better prove false.
>
That's asking to prove a negative again. There's nothing but anecdotes and
no confirmation of them as anything more. When there's evidence other than
such anecdotes, present it, although I'm fairly confident that somewhere in
the field of psychoaccoustics, it's been looked into.

> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the way
> around it?
Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim with no
evidence.

[[email protected]]

Mike McKelvy asked John Atkinson
>
>
<snipped>
>
>
> Now, how about answering where the integrity goes when SP prints glowing
> reviews of crap like Mpingo disks, or why you can't hire people who won't
> get into screaming matches in public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
>
>
Atkinson is running away from such questions, eh?
>
>
> The dance continues.
>
>
Or is he just dancing away? ;-)

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > Sander deWaal wrote:
>> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
>> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
>> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
>> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
>> >>
>> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
>> >> all by itself, apparently.
>> >
>> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
>> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
>> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
>> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
>> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
>> >
>> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
>> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
>> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
>> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
>> > is superior to actual reality.
>> >
>> I said I had not seen him do it. I also said that when he sometimes has
>> obviously stretched the truth, that it was in response to same, IME.
>
> You are negligent. You have made Arny Krueger into your personal idol.

No, not anymore than you have made Middius yours. I simply trust him to
give me good info on audio. Just like you can count on George to be smarmy.

If
> you must do this, then you owe it to yourself and others to exercise
> diligence in understanding this man, what he says, and what he does.

Outside the are of audio, I have no reason to care what he does and involve
myself in other discussions if I feel like it.

It is
> incontestable that Arny Krueger has lied many times

As it is incontestable that you get technical issues wrong many times.

, persistently, on
> multiple occasions, and on multiple subjects.

How about on the subjectof audio?

If you haven't seen this, it's
> because you don't care to look.

Could be, especially if they don't have anything to with audio, or if it's
just the usual carping between the usual suspects.

If you insist on being a follower, at least
> understand what you are following.

I'm not following, I'm just reading.

What a trusting guy you are! Another fate
> would find you drinking KoolAid courtesy of Jim Jones.
>
Not bloody likely, that would be the subjectivists, they'd drink the KoolAid
if someone told them it gave a better sense of rhythm and pace. Atkinson
would no doubt review the effect in a very positive way.

> Do you endorse the idea of stretching the truth because the opponent does
> the same? Is your creed "Fight lies with lies" ?
>
My creed is leave people the **** alone on usenet, if you don't want to be
bothered. If you want to disagree on technical grounds, do so on an equal
footing. I suspect that's why you have such a problem with Arny, he knows
more than you about audio.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > " > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >>
> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > Sander deWaal wrote:
> >> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
> >> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's
truthfulness:
> >> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
> >> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
> >> >>
> >> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
> >> >> all by itself, apparently.
> >> >
> >> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
> >> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
> >> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
> >> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
> >> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
> >> >
> >> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
> >> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
> >> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
> >> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
> >> > is superior to actual reality.
> >> >
> >> I said I had not seen him do it. I also said that when he sometimes
has
> >> obviously stretched the truth, that it was in response to same, IME.
> >
> > You are negligent. You have made Arny Krueger into your personal idol.
>
> No, not anymore than you have made Middius yours. I simply trust him to
> give me good info on audio. Just like you can count on George to be
smarmy.
>
> If
> > you must do this, then you owe it to yourself and others to exercise
> > diligence in understanding this man, what he says, and what he does.
>
> Outside the are of audio, I have no reason to care what he does and
involve
> myself in other discussions if I feel like it.
>
> It is
> > incontestable that Arny Krueger has lied many times
>
> As it is incontestable that you get technical issues wrong many times.
>
> , persistently, on
> > multiple occasions, and on multiple subjects.
>
> How about on the subjectof audio?
>
> If you haven't seen this, it's
> > because you don't care to look.
>
> Could be, especially if they don't have anything to with audio, or if it's
> just the usual carping between the usual suspects.
>
> If you insist on being a follower, at least
> > understand what you are following.
>
> I'm not following, I'm just reading.
>
> What a trusting guy you are! Another fate
> > would find you drinking KoolAid courtesy of Jim Jones.
> >
> Not bloody likely, that would be the subjectivists, they'd drink the
KoolAid
> if someone told them it gave a better sense of rhythm and pace. Atkinson
> would no doubt review the effect in a very positive way.
>
> > Do you endorse the idea of stretching the truth because the opponent
does
> > the same? Is your creed "Fight lies with lies" ?
> >
> My creed is leave people the **** alone on usenet,

Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like ****, and
they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.

[John Atkinson]

wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > wrote:
> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> > Sander deWaal wrote:
> >> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
> >> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's truthfulness:
> >> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
> >> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
> >> >>
> >> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
> >> >> all by itself, apparently.
> >> >
> >> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
> >> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
> >> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
> >> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
> >> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
> >> >
> >> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
> >> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
> >> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
> >> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
> >> > is superior to actual reality.
> >>
> >> I said I had not seen him do it.
> >
> > I find this hard to believe, given that you both responded
> > to the message in which Arny Krueger said I had attacked
> > his children and subsequently challenged me to state for
> > the record that Google would not uncover any messages in
> > which I had atacked Arny's chidren.
>
> Careful your optional spelling of children (chidren) will get
> Mr . moreing tinking you're not too smart.

Oh come on, Mr. McKelvy. Yes, I made a couple of typos. So
what? It's Arny Krueger who gets so upset by typos, as readily
revealed by the Google record.

> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
>
> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
> discussion.

What's to review? You made an an unambiguous, unqualified
statement that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
I have repeatedly offered you factual evidence that you were
incorrect. All you have left to support your position is your
unsupported faith in Mr. Krueger's honesty.

> Now, how about answering where the integrity goes when SP prints
> glowing reviews of crap like Mpingo disks...

Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy. Why is it so hard for you faith-based
critics to even do the minumum amount of research before you
issue your pronouncements?

>why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches in
>public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?

I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
projection on your part, I suggest. Yes, Michael Fremer did get
into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
convention.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[west]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
> >
> > You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has zero oversight
on
> > things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo disks, that make people laugh at
you
> > when you try to claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
anyone
> > with a shred of integrity would be offended to let the glowing reviews
that
> > the dolts at SP penned ever see light of day.

Remember the days when Harry Pearson, et al, would say things like, "This is
the same crap that XYZ has been putting out ..." I suppose money wins out
in the end because you can't bite the hand that feeds you. If any one knows
of a rebel, non-advertising audio magazine, please tell.
Cordially,
west

[Jon Yaeger]

in article , west at
wrote on 8/16/05 4:39 PM:

> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
>>>
>>> You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has zero oversight
> on
>>> things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo disks, that make people laugh at
> you
>>> when you try to claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
> anyone
>>> with a shred of integrity would be offended to let the glowing reviews
> that
>>> the dolts at SP penned ever see light of day.
>
> Remember the days when Harry Pearson, et al, would say things like, "This is
> the same crap that XYZ has been putting out ..." I suppose money wins out
> in the end because you can't bite the hand that feeds you. If any one knows
> of a rebel, non-advertising audio magazine, please tell.
> Cordially,
> west


I don't think there is one, West. Why don't you start one?

Jon

[George Middius]

Robert Morein said:

>> My creed is leave people the **** alone on usenet,

>Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like ****, and
>they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.

Mickey may not be lying. He's the dullest knife in the drawer, you know, so
maybe he's just too dumb to figure it out.

Check out the thread where he's weaseling around trying to defend the
flat-earthers. "Logical" indeed. Mickey has elevated cluelessness to an art
form.

[George M. Middius]

Jon Yaeger said:

> > If any one knows
> > of a rebel, non-advertising audio magazine, please tell.

> I don't think there is one, West. Why don't you start one?

He can't. He doesn't have the $30 per month for web hosting.

[[email protected]]

George Middius lied:
> Robert Morein said:
>
> >> My creed is leave people the **** alone on usenet,
>
> >Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like ****, and
> >they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.
>
> Mickey may not be lying. He's the dullest knife in the drawer, you know, so
> maybe he's just too dumb to figure it out.
>
> Check out the thread where he's weaseling around trying to defend the
> flat-earthers. "Logical" indeed. Mickey has elevated cluelessness to an art
> form.
>
>
Do you mean the thread where Mike McKelvy has your HeroLiar, John
"Slimey Limey" Atkinson, running for cover? ;-)

[[email protected]]

John Atkinson lied:
>
>
<snipped>
>
> Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
>
>
I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews" (
two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing something,
or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
"negative" at SP these days?
>
>
> Why is it so hard for you faith-based
> critics to even do the minumum amount of research before you
> issue your pronouncements?
>
>
Why is it so hard for you to tell the truth, scumball?

[Jenn]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> John Atkinson lied:
> >
> >
> <snipped>
> >
> > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> >
> >
> I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews" (
> two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
> one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing something,
> or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
> "negative" at SP these days?

There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that could
be taken as anything but negative. "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for example.
You toss around the word "lied" quite loosely, in my opinion.

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > wrote:
>> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> > Sander deWaal wrote:
>> >> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
>> >> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's
>> >> >> truthfulness:
>> >> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
>> >> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
>> >> >> all by itself, apparently.
>> >> >
>> >> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
>> >> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
>> >> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
>> >> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
>> >> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
>> >> >
>> >> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
>> >> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
>> >> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
>> >> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
>> >> > is superior to actual reality.
>> >>
>> >> I said I had not seen him do it.
>> >
>> > I find this hard to believe, given that you both responded
>> > to the message in which Arny Krueger said I had attacked
>> > his children and subsequently challenged me to state for
>> > the record that Google would not uncover any messages in
>> > which I had atacked Arny's chidren.
>>
>> Careful your optional spelling of children (chidren) will get
>> Mr . moreing tinking you're not too smart.
>
> Oh come on, Mr. McKelvy. Yes, I made a couple of typos. So
> what?

I was commenting on Morein's remarks about my typos and misspellings.
Frankly, I understand that people make such mistakes and seldom on them.


It's Arny Krueger who gets so upset by typos, as readily
> revealed by the Google record.
>
Only after comments about his mistakes have been made, IME.

>> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
>> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
>> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
>> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
>>
>> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
>> discussion.
>
> What's to review?

Context. Look it up.

You made an an unambiguous, unqualified
> statement that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."

That I am awarre of.

> I have repeatedly offered you factual evidence that you were
> incorrect. All you have left to support your position is your
> unsupported faith in Mr. Krueger's honesty.
>
>> Now, how about answering where the integrity goes when SP prints
>> glowing reviews of crap like Mpingo disks...
>
> Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.

Why? What positives could there be for something that doesn't do anything?
Where FR measurements made?

Why is it so hard for you faith-based
> critics to even do the minumum amount of research before you
> issue your pronouncements?
>
If irony killed.

>>why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches in
>>public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
>
> I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
> projection on your part, I suggest.

Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported it in
the Audio Critic.

Yes, Michael Fremer did get
> into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
> was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
> the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
> having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
> blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
> convention.
>

So Arny wanted proof, what a *******/

Let me guess, Fremer, the guy who can't hear what a piece of crap a WAVAC
amp is, has not come forth to prove he can do what he claims.
Big surprise.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > " > wrote in message
>> > nk.net...
>> >>
>> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > Sander deWaal wrote:
>> >> >> "John Atkinson" > said to
>> >> >> Mike McKelvy, regarding his claims about Arny Krueger's
> truthfulness:
>> >> >> > How, then do you excuse the unwarranted accusations he has made
>> >> >> > of me and the lack of civility which which he addresses me?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're a (the!) heretic. Relying on sighted tests is insulting
>> >> >> all by itself, apparently.
>> >> >
>> >> > It certainly echoes the moral blinkers shown, for example, by
>> >> > Steven Sullivan in the "Don Pearce" thread who is very quick to
>> >> > condemn sighted listening as practiced by those he disagrees
>> >> > with but equally slow to condemn confirmed unethical behavior
>> >> > in those whose audio philosophy aligns with his own.
>> >> >
>> >> > But Mr. McKelvy having made such a strong, unambiguous
>> >> > statement about Arny Krueger's truthfulness, one that is
>> >> > contrary to all the evidence, I would be interested in
>> >> > learning from him why he feels his faith-based workd-view
>> >> > is superior to actual reality.
>> >> >
>> >> I said I had not seen him do it. I also said that when he sometimes
> has
>> >> obviously stretched the truth, that it was in response to same, IME.
>> >
>> > You are negligent. You have made Arny Krueger into your personal idol.
>>
>> No, not anymore than you have made Middius yours. I simply trust him to
>> give me good info on audio. Just like you can count on George to be
> smarmy.
>>
>> If
>> > you must do this, then you owe it to yourself and others to exercise
>> > diligence in understanding this man, what he says, and what he does.
>>
>> Outside the are of audio, I have no reason to care what he does and
> involve
>> myself in other discussions if I feel like it.
>>
>> It is
>> > incontestable that Arny Krueger has lied many times
>>
>> As it is incontestable that you get technical issues wrong many times.
>>
>> , persistently, on
>> > multiple occasions, and on multiple subjects.
>>
>> How about on the subjectof audio?
>>
>> If you haven't seen this, it's
>> > because you don't care to look.
>>
>> Could be, especially if they don't have anything to with audio, or if
>> it's
>> just the usual carping between the usual suspects.
>>
>> If you insist on being a follower, at least
>> > understand what you are following.
>>
>> I'm not following, I'm just reading.
>>
>> What a trusting guy you are! Another fate
>> > would find you drinking KoolAid courtesy of Jim Jones.
>> >
>> Not bloody likely, that would be the subjectivists, they'd drink the
> KoolAid
>> if someone told them it gave a better sense of rhythm and pace. Atkinson
>> would no doubt review the effect in a very positive way.
>>
>> > Do you endorse the idea of stretching the truth because the opponent
> does
>> > the same? Is your creed "Fight lies with lies" ?
>> >
>> My creed is leave people the **** alone on usenet,
>
> Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like ****,
> and
> they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.
>
How many do you usually take in a day?

[[email protected]]

Mr. Morein:

How goes the FM Listening Survey?

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
> In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> > John Atkinson lied:
> > >
> > >
> > <snipped>
> > >
> > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > >
> > >
> > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews" (
> > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
> > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing something,
> > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
> > "negative" at SP these days?
>
> There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that could
> be taken as anything but negative.
>
>
I disagree, see below.
>
>
> "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for example.
>
>
Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.
>
>
> You toss around the word "lied" quite loosely, in my opinion.
>
>
It's my "expectation effect" when dealing with Atkinson. :-)

[Jenn]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
> > In article . com>,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > John Atkinson lied:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > <snipped>
> > > >
> > > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> > > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews" (
> > > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
> > > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing something,
> > > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
> > > "negative" at SP these days?
> >
> > There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that could
> > be taken as anything but negative.
> >
> >
> I disagree, see below.
> >
> >
> > "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> > perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for example.
> >
> >
> Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
> hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
> this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.

If you read all of Willis' pieces, he clearly belittles the item. He
speaks at length about the need for "belief" in regards to them.

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
> In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> > Jenn wrote:
> > > In article . com>,
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > John Atkinson lied:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > <snipped>
> > > > >
> > > > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> > > > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews" (
> > > > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
> > > > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing something,
> > > > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
> > > > "negative" at SP these days?
> > >
> > > There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that could
> > > be taken as anything but negative.
> > >
> > >
> > I disagree, see below.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> > > perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for example.
> > >
> > >
> > Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
> > hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
> > this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.
>
> If you read all of Willis' pieces, he clearly belittles the item. He
> speaks at length about the need for "belief" in regards to them.
>
>
Jenn, I did read all of Willis' pieces regarding Mpingo discs, as well
as all of Scull and Tellig. IMO, to see Willis as purely "negative"
requires being a bit sceptical about such products to begin with. The
need for belief part follows from there. OTOH, the Scull/Tellig
"reviews" are unambiguous in their praise. They make the Mpingo discs
seem magical, changing the soundstage, etc., etc. This is far from the
"balance" that Atkinson implied ("both positive and negative coverage").

[Jenn]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
> > In article . com>,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Jenn wrote:
> > > > In article . com>,
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > John Atkinson lied:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > <snipped>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> > > > > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews"
> > > > > (
> > > > > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
> > > > > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing
> > > > > something,
> > > > > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
> > > > > "negative" at SP these days?
> > > >
> > > > There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that could
> > > > be taken as anything but negative.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I disagree, see below.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> > > > perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for example.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
> > > hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
> > > this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.
> >
> > If you read all of Willis' pieces, he clearly belittles the item. He
> > speaks at length about the need for "belief" in regards to them.
> >
> >
> Jenn, I did read all of Willis' pieces regarding Mpingo discs, as well
> as all of Scull and Tellig. IMO, to see Willis as purely "negative"
> requires being a bit sceptical about such products to begin with. The
> need for belief part follows from there.

Some quotes from Willis:
"He cued up some music, let it play for a minute, walked over to one of
his small loudspeakers---which bore a Mpingo disc on its far right
corner---gave the disc a 180-degree twist, and looked expectantly at us
for our reaction. Perhaps Shun Mook's products perform in a realm to
which I am not psychically attuned."

"In Hi-Fi Land, faith has traditionally prevailed over reason, often to
the benefit of people who make items of marginal or imaginary value."

"In other words, they work to the limits of their users' belief."

Yes, he "leaves the door open" to the possibility that these things do
indeed affect sound. He clearly states, however, that he doesn't hear
it. If you were the maker of a product that received such a review, you
no doubt would consider it to be a negative one, thus disproving your
accusation of JA lying when he stated, "Stereophile published both
positive and negative coverage of the Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy."

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
> In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> > Jenn wrote:
> > > In article . com>,
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jenn wrote:
> > > > > In article . com>,
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > John Atkinson lied:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > <snipped>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of the
> > > > > > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing "reviews"
> > > > > > (
> > > > > > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig) and
> > > > > > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing
> > > > > > something,
> > > > > > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify as
> > > > > > "negative" at SP these days?
> > > > >
> > > > > There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that could
> > > > > be taken as anything but negative.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > I disagree, see below.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> > > > > perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for example.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
> > > > hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
> > > > this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.
> > >
> > > If you read all of Willis' pieces, he clearly belittles the item. He
> > > speaks at length about the need for "belief" in regards to them.
> > >
> > >
> > Jenn, I did read all of Willis' pieces regarding Mpingo discs, as well
> > as all of Scull and Tellig. IMO, to see Willis as purely "negative"
> > requires being a bit sceptical about such products to begin with. The
> > need for belief part follows from there.
>
> Some quotes from Willis:
> "He cued up some music, let it play for a minute, walked over to one of
> his small loudspeakers---which bore a Mpingo disc on its far right
> corner---gave the disc a 180-degree twist, and looked expectantly at us
> for our reaction. Perhaps Shun Mook's products perform in a realm to
> which I am not psychically attuned."
>
> "In Hi-Fi Land, faith has traditionally prevailed over reason, often to
> the benefit of people who make items of marginal or imaginary value."
>
> "In other words, they work to the limits of their users' belief."
>
>
These quotes are faint, indeed, compared to the unambiguous, glowing
praise from Scull and Tellig. Did you read their crap?
>
>
> Yes, he "leaves the door open" to the possibility that these things do
> indeed affect sound.
>
>
Whilst Scull/Tellig never allow the possibility that they *do not*.
>
>
> He clearly states, however, that he doesn't hear it.
>
>
Scull and Tellig clearly do hear it, obvious and dramatic.
>
>
> If you were the maker of a product that received such a review, you
> no doubt would consider it to be a negative one,
>
>
Willis' review, standing alone, might be taken thus. However, taken
against the glowing praise from Scull and Tellig, the maker should
happily sign another advertising contract: Atkinson has delivered as
promised.
>
>
> thus disproving your
> accusation of JA lying when he stated, "Stereophile published both
> positive and negative coverage of the Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy."
>
>
Disagreeed. YMMV

[Jenn]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> Jenn wrote:
> > In article . com>,
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Jenn wrote:
> > > > In article . com>,
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Jenn wrote:
> > > > > > In article . com>,
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > John Atkinson lied:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > <snipped>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing
> > > > > > > "reviews"
> > > > > > > (
> > > > > > > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig)
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing
> > > > > > > something,
> > > > > > > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify
> > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > "negative" at SP these days?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > be taken as anything but negative.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I disagree, see below.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> > > > > > perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for
> > > > > > example.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
> > > > > hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
> > > > > this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.
> > > >
> > > > If you read all of Willis' pieces, he clearly belittles the item. He
> > > > speaks at length about the need for "belief" in regards to them.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Jenn, I did read all of Willis' pieces regarding Mpingo discs, as well
> > > as all of Scull and Tellig. IMO, to see Willis as purely "negative"
> > > requires being a bit sceptical about such products to begin with. The
> > > need for belief part follows from there.
> >
> > Some quotes from Willis:
> > "He cued up some music, let it play for a minute, walked over to one of
> > his small loudspeakers---which bore a Mpingo disc on its far right
> > corner---gave the disc a 180-degree twist, and looked expectantly at us
> > for our reaction. Perhaps Shun Mook's products perform in a realm to
> > which I am not psychically attuned."
> >
> > "In Hi-Fi Land, faith has traditionally prevailed over reason, often to
> > the benefit of people who make items of marginal or imaginary value."
> >
> > "In other words, they work to the limits of their users' belief."
> >
> >
> These quotes are faint, indeed, compared to the unambiguous, glowing
> praise from Scull and Tellig. Did you read their crap?

Yes, I read what they wrote. But my point is that Willis does indeed
give a negative review, which is what JA said.

> >
> >
> > Yes, he "leaves the door open" to the possibility that these things do
> > indeed affect sound.
> >
> >
> Whilst Scull/Tellig never allow the possibility that they *do not*.
> >
> >
> > He clearly states, however, that he doesn't hear it.
> >
> >
> Scull and Tellig clearly do hear it, obvious and dramatic.
> >
> >
> > If you were the maker of a product that received such a review, you
> > no doubt would consider it to be a negative one,
> >
> >
> Willis' review, standing alone, might be taken thus. However, taken
> against the glowing praise from Scull and Tellig, the maker should
> happily sign another advertising contract: Atkinson has delivered as
> promised.

JA said that the product received both positive and negative coverage in
SP. He was correct.
> >
> >
> > thus disproving your
> > accusation of JA lying when he stated, "Stereophile published both
> > positive and negative coverage of the Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy."
> >
> >
> Disagreeed. YMMV

Of course. :-)

[Steven Sullivan]

In rec.audio.opinion west > wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
> > >
> > > You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has zero oversight
> on
> > > things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo disks, that make people laugh at
> you
> > > when you try to claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
> anyone
> > > with a shred of integrity would be offended to let the glowing reviews
> that
> > > the dolts at SP penned ever see light of day.

> Remember the days when Harry Pearson, et al, would say things like, "This is
> the same crap that XYZ has been putting out ..." I suppose money wins out
> in the end because you can't bite the hand that feeds you. If any one knows
> of a rebel, non-advertising audio magazine, please tell.
> Cordially,
> west

here you go:

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/cwo/Web_Zine/



--

-S
"God is an asshole!" -- Ruth Fisher, 'Six Feet Under'

[[email protected]]

Jenn wrote:
> In article . com>,
> wrote:
>
> > Jenn wrote:
> > > In article . com>,
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jenn wrote:
> > > > > In article . com>,
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jenn wrote:
> > > > > > > In article . com>,
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John Atkinson lied:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > <snipped>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Stereophile published both positive and negative coverage of
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I went to the SP website and found three effusive, glowing
> > > > > > > > "reviews"
> > > > > > > > (
> > > > > > > > two by the notorious shill Jonathan Scull and one by Sam Tellig)
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > one sorta non-committal review by Barry Willis. Am I missing
> > > > > > > > something,
> > > > > > > > or is any review that doesn't kiss the advertiser's ass qualify
> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > > "negative" at SP these days?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is nothing in Barry Willis' writing on these products that
> > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > be taken as anything but negative.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > I disagree, see below.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Perhaps Shun Mook's products
> > > > > > > perform in a realm to which I am not psychically attuned" for
> > > > > > > example.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Which allows for the idea that that the reviewer (Willis) failed to
> > > > > > hear the difference, not that said difference did not exist. Contrast
> > > > > > this with the unambiguous, effusive praise from Scull and Tellig.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you read all of Willis' pieces, he clearly belittles the item. He
> > > > > speaks at length about the need for "belief" in regards to them.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Jenn, I did read all of Willis' pieces regarding Mpingo discs, as well
> > > > as all of Scull and Tellig. IMO, to see Willis as purely "negative"
> > > > requires being a bit sceptical about such products to begin with. The
> > > > need for belief part follows from there.
> > >
> > > Some quotes from Willis:
> > > "He cued up some music, let it play for a minute, walked over to one of
> > > his small loudspeakers---which bore a Mpingo disc on its far right
> > > corner---gave the disc a 180-degree twist, and looked expectantly at us
> > > for our reaction. Perhaps Shun Mook's products perform in a realm to
> > > which I am not psychically attuned."
> > >
> > > "In Hi-Fi Land, faith has traditionally prevailed over reason, often to
> > > the benefit of people who make items of marginal or imaginary value."
> > >
> > > "In other words, they work to the limits of their users' belief."
> > >
> > >
> > These quotes are faint, indeed, compared to the unambiguous, glowing
> > praise from Scull and Tellig. Did you read their crap?
>
> Yes, I read what they wrote. But my point is that Willis does indeed
> give a negative review, which is what JA said.
>
>
A weak, token negative review, offset by effusive praise from others,
may be a good move if a rag is seeking "credibility" when dealing with
a fraud such as Mpingo discs. This is the reason Atkinson likes to
include his graphs and measurments in a glowing review of an SET (for
example).
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, he "leaves the door open" to the possibility that these things do
> > > indeed affect sound.
> > >
> > >
> > Whilst Scull/Tellig never allow the possibility that they *do not*.
> > >
> > >
> > > He clearly states, however, that he doesn't hear it.
> > >
> > >
> > Scull and Tellig clearly do hear it, obvious and dramatic.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you were the maker of a product that received such a review, you
> > > no doubt would consider it to be a negative one,
> > >
> > >
> > Willis' review, standing alone, might be taken thus. However, taken
> > against the glowing praise from Scull and Tellig, the maker should
> > happily sign another advertising contract: Atkinson has delivered as
> > promised.
>
> JA said that the product received both positive and negative coverage in
> SP. He was correct.
>
>
Until now, I wasn't aware that you were seeking an appointment to The
Royal Order of Defenders of The Slimey Limey. Best of luck in your
quest.
> > >
> > >
> > > thus disproving your
> > > accusation of JA lying when he stated, "Stereophile published both
> > > positive and negative coverage of the Mpingo discs, Mr. McKelvy."
> > >
> > >
> > Disagreeed. YMMV
>
> Of course. :-)
>
>
Of course! ;-)

[sam]

" > wrote
>
>> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the way
>> around it?
> Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim with
> no evidence.


What claim is that? The one you agree with?

[[email protected]]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Tom said:
>
>>> It's an idea, and only an idea until proven to be something more.
>
>>Incorrect. Whether or not differences exist is a state of reality.
>>Differences exist or they don't - whether someone asserts they
>>exist or not - whether someone proves they exist or not.
>
> All this "reality" stuff must be terribly confusing for poor Mikey. He
> doesn't
> inhabit reality; he inhabits the Argument Zone. It's comfortable for him
> in
> there because it's entirely theoretical. Undiscovered facts simply do not
> exist
> for Mikey.
>

If they are undiscovered, we can't really consider them yet, now can we you
****?

>>> Then prove them and stop complaining about how they are criticised
>>> because
>>> they have no supporting evidence.
>
>>Eat me, Mike. I don't have to prove ****. I don't intend to prove ****.
>>Tell your ****ing engineer buddy Arny to prove it.
>>People were criticized for asserting that the world was round, weren't
>>they Mike?
>
> Indeed they were, but according to MikeyLogic, the criticisms were
> invalid.
> Nobody had yet proven the roundness theory, so MikeyLogic says flatness
> was the
> only known state of existence.
>
For a while it was. It would have been irrational to discuss a round earth
without evidence. Just simply saying what if the earth is round would have
made no sense, just like saying what if there are factors wew don't know
about that influence our enjoyment of hi-fi. SFW! if there are such
things, then they will be discovered and we will adjust our perception of
reality accordingly.
>
>>> The simple fact is that in countless ABX DBT's alleged differences
>>> disappear. While you may not consider this as proof that amps, etc
>>> sound
>>> the same, it is evidence, and it is relaible.
>>
>>Evidence of what?
>>
>>Many people assert they hear differences and when put to the test,
>>they're unable to support their assertions. No argument.
>>When people assert that they're unsatisfied or fatigued after extended
>>listening periods, you have no *evidence* to discount those kinds of
>>assertions. So eat me.
>
> Again, you're flouting MikeyLogic. Granted, the barriers to the Argument
> Zone
> are somewhat fluid, admitting some logical premises but not others. Mikey
> "knows" that aBxism has revealed "truth". It's not important how he knows
> this;
> he just knows it.

From reading about it and from having done some.

So any data that might vitiate the "truth" that Mikey "knows"
> are simply argument fodder, to be quibbled and parsed and caviled until
> Mikey's
> opponent loses his temper and begins battering Mikey about the head and
> shoulders (figuratively or literally).
>
I'm open to discussing anything for which there is evidence. Merely
speculating that there might be something we don't know about listening is
nothing but mental masturbation, and a pointless excercise.

The pro ABX side presents evidence, teh anti-ABX side presents rhetoric,
most of it pointlessly nasty.

[sam]

dickless Malesweski writes:
>>
> Until now, I wasn't aware that you were seeking an appointment to The
> Royal Order of Defenders of The Slimey Limey. Best of luck in your
> quest.

Are you aware how dumb you are?
Are you aware you just got shown up?
Are you aware how ugly you are?
Are you aware everyone knows you're reading this?

(PLONK!) LOL


How's your daddy?

;-D

[Sylvan Morein]

In article t,
" > wrote:

> Mr. Morein:
>
> How goes the FM Listening Survey?

My now-dead wife Jane used to make wonderful torte's for me and Bob. Berry.
Lemon. Peach. Pennzoil. All the family favourites.

Even this loving attention didn't make a whit of difference to my now 53
year old loser son.

Any "survey" done by Bob is skewed by the fact that he has no job and
nothing else to do but listen to the radio.


Facts about my Son, Robert Morein

Dr. Sylvan Morein, DDS
--

Bob Morein History
--
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/4853918.htm

> Doctoral student takes intellectual property case to Supreme Court
> By L. STUART DITZEN
> Philadelphia Inquirer
>
> PHILADELPHIA -Even the professors who dismissed him from a doctoral program
> at Drexel University agreed that Robert Morein was uncommonly smart.
>
> They apparently didn't realize that he was uncommonly stubborn too - so much
> so that he would mount a court fight all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court
> to challenge his dismissal.

The Supremes have already rejected this appeal, btw.
>
> "It's a personality trait I have - I'm a tenacious guy," said Morein, a
> pleasantly eccentric man regarded by friends as an inventive genius. "And we
> do come to a larger issue here."

An "inventive genius" that has never invented anything. And hardly
"pleasantly" eccentric.

> A five-year legal battle between this unusual ex-student and one of
> Philadelphia's premier educational institutions has gone largely unnoticed
> by the media and the public.

Because no one gives a **** about a 52 year old loser.
>
> But it has been the subject of much attention in academia.
>
> Drexel says it dismissed Morein in 1995 because he failed, after eight
> years, to complete a thesis required for a doctorate in electrical and
> computer engineering.

Not to mention the 12 years it took him to get thru high school!
BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>
> Morein, 50, of Dresher, Pa., contends that he was dismissed only after his
> thesis adviser "appropriated" an innovative idea Morein had developed in a
> rarefied area of thought called "estimation theory" and arranged to have it
> patented.

A contention rejected by three courts. From a 50 YEAR OLD that has
done NOTHING PRODUCTIVE with his life.

> In February 2000, Philadelphia Common Pleas Court Judge Esther R. Sylvester
> ruled that Morein's adviser indeed had taken his idea.

An idea that was worth nothing, because it didn't work. Just like
Robert Morein, who has never worked a day in his life.

> Sylvester held that Morein had been unjustly dismissed and she ordered
> Drexel to reinstate him or refund his tuition.

Funnily enough, Drexel AGREED to reinstate Morein, who rejected the
offer because he knew he was and IS a failed loser. Spending daddy's
money to cover up his lack of productivity.
>
> That brought roars of protest from the lions of academia. There is a long
> tradition in America of noninterference by the courts in academic decisions.
>
> Backed by every major university in Pennsylvania and organizations
> representing thousands of others around the country, Drexel appealed to the
> state Superior Court.
>
> The appellate court, by a 2-1 vote, reversed Sylvester in June 2001 and
> restored the status quo. Morein was, once again, out at Drexel. And the
> time-honored axiom that courts ought to keep their noses out of academic
> affairs was reasserted.
>
> The state Supreme Court declined to review the case and, in an ordinary
> litigation, that would have been the end of it.
>
> But Morein, in a quixotic gesture that goes steeply against the odds, has
> asked the highest court in the land to give him a hearing.

Daddy throws more money down the crapper.

> His attorney, Faye Riva Cohen, said the Supreme Court appeal is important
> even if it fails because it raises the issue of whether a university has a
> right to lay claim to a student's ideas - or intellectual property - without
> compensation.
>
> "Any time you are in a Ph.D. program, you are a serf, you are a slave," said
> Cohen. Morein "is concerned not only for himself. He feels that what
> happened to him is pretty common."

It's called HIGHER EDUCATION, honey. The students aren't in charge,
the UNIVERSITY and PROFESSORS are.

> Drexel's attorney, Neil J. Hamburg, called Morein's appeal - and his claim
> that his idea was stolen - "preposterous."
>
> "I will eat my shoe if the Supreme Court hears this case," declared Hamburg.
> "We're not even going to file a response. He is a brilliant guy, but his
> intelligence should be used for the advancement of society rather than
> pursuing self-destructive litigation."

No **** sherlock.

> The litigation began in 1997, when Morein sued Drexel claiming that a
> committee of professors had dumped him after he accused his faculty adviser,
> Paul Kalata, of appropriating his idea.
>
> His concept was considered to have potential value for businesses in
> minutely measuring the internal functions of machines, industrial processes
> and electronic systems.
>
> The field of "estimation theory" is one in which scientists attempt to
> calculate what they cannot plainly observe, such as the inside workings of a
> nuclear plant or a computer.

My estimation theory? There is NO brain at work inside the head of
Robert Morein, only sawdust.

>
> Prior to Morein's dismissal, Drexel looked into his complaint against Kalata
> and concluded that the associate professor had done nothing wrong. Kalata,
> through a university lawyer, declined to comment.
>
> At a nonjury trial before Sylvester in 1999, Morein testified that Kalata in
> 1990 had posed a technical problem for him to study for his thesis. It
> related to estimation theory.
>
> Kalata, who did not appear at the trial, said in a 1998 deposition that a
> Cherry Hill company for which he was a paid consultant, K-Tron
> International, had asked him to develop an alternate estimation method for
> it. The company manufactures bulk material feeders and conveyors used in
> industrial processes.
>
> Morein testified that, after much study, he experienced "a flash of
> inspiration" and came up with a novel mathematical concept to address the
> problem Kalata had presented.
>
> Without his knowledge, Morein said, Kalata shared the idea with K-Tron.
>
> K-Tron then applied for a patent, listing Kalata and Morein as co-inventors.
>
> Morein said he agreed "under duress" to the arrangement, but felt "locked
> into a highly disadvantageous situation." As a result, he testified, he
> became alienated from Kalata.
>
> As events unfolded, Kalata signed over his interest in the patent to K-Tron.
> The company never capitalized on the technology and eventually allowed the
> patent to lapse. No one made any money from it.

Because it was bogus. Even Kalata was mortified that he was a victim
of this SCAMSTER, Robert Morein.

> In 1991, Morein went to the head of Drexel's electrical engineering
> department, accused Kalata of appropriating his intellectual property, and
> asked for a new faculty adviser.

The staff at Drexel laughed wildly at the ignorance of Robert Morein.

> He didn't get one. Instead, a committee of four professors, including
> Kalata, was formed to oversee Morein's thesis work.
>
> Four years later, the committee dismissed him, saying he had failed to
> complete his thesis.

So Morein ****s up his first couple years, gets new faculty advisers
(a TEAM), and then ****s up again! Brilliant!

> Morein claimed that the committee intentionally had undermined him.

Morein makes LOTS of claims that are nonsense. One look thru the
usenet proves it.

> Judge Sylvester agreed. In her ruling, Sylvester wrote: "It is this court's
> opinion that the defendants were motivated by bad faith and ill will."

So much for political machine judges.
>
> The U.S. Supreme Court receives 7,000 appeals a year and agrees to hear only
> about 100 of them.
>
> Hamburg, Drexel's attorney, is betting the high court will reject Morein's
> appeal out of hand because its focal point - concerning a student's right to
> intellectual property - was not central to the litigation in the
> Pennsylvania courts.

> Morein said he understands it's a long shot, but he feels he must pursue it.

Just like all the failed "causes" Morein pursues. Heck, he's been
chasing another "Brian McCarthy" for years and yet has ZERO impact on
anything.

Failure. Look it up in Websters. You'll see a picture of Robert
Morein. The poster boy for SCAMMING LOSERS.

>
> "I had to seek closure," he said.
>
> Without a doctorate, he said, he has been unable to pursue a career he had
> hoped would lead him into research on artificial intelligence.

Who better to tell us about "artificial intelligence".
BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

>
> As it is, Morein lives at home with his father and makes a modest income
> from stock investments. He has written a film script that he is trying to
> make into a movie. And in the basement of his father's home he is working on
> an invention, an industrial pump so powerful it could cut steel with a
> bulletlike stream of water.


FAILED STUDENT
FAILED MOVIE MAKER
FAILED SCREENWRITER
FAILED INVESTOR
FAILED DRIVER
FAILED SON
FAILED PARENTS
FAILED INVENTOR
FAILED PLAINTIFF
FAILED HOMOSEXUAL
FAILED HUMAN
FAILED
FAILED

> But none of it is what he had imagined for himself.
>
> "I don't really have a replacement career," Morein said. "It's a very
> gnawing thing.

[Robert Morein]

"Sylvan Morein" > wrote in message
m...
> In article t,
> " > wrote:
>
> > Mr. Morein:
> >
> > How goes the FM Listening Survey?
>
> My now-dead wife Jane used to make wonderful torte's for me and Bob.
Berry.
> Lemon. Peach. Pennzoil. All the family favourites.
>
Sorry, Brian. You got it wrong. We are not dessert eaters, and have never
made desserts at home. We eat extremely simple food, with a lot of protein,
and we all exercise vigorously. We are not gourmets.

And the plural of "torte" is "tortes", not "torte's".

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
[snip]
> >
> > Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like ****,
> > and
> > they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.
> >
> How many do you usually take in a day?
>
None, Mikey. Try a little truth serum on your pancakes. You'll be shocked to
hear what you say.

[Robert Morein]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
> >
> >> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the
way
> >> around it?
> > Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim with
> > no evidence.
>
>
> What claim is that? The one you agree with?
>
Sam, you're arguing with something at the level of machine intelligence.
Mikey's mantra is that he must repeat this lie, because it helps him believe
he knows some little piece of valuable knowledge.
The world is littered with broken minds, mental machinery that belongs in a
dump, if it isn't already there.

[Robert Morein]

"EddieM" > wrote in message
...
>
> > sam wrote
> >> NYOB123 wrote
> >
> >snip
> >
> >
> >> I'm open to evidence, Arny has some...
> >
> > What evidence are you referring to? That he's an angry person?
> >
>
> Except for Mikey, Sam, this subthread is a joy to go through.
> Mikey is a nutball that is, in inexplicable way, a pleasure to read .
>
Well, sure. Horror is really big in theaters right now.

[Robert Morein]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > Mikey, you're doing it again. Pretending that someone "admits" something
> > that is to your advantage simply outlines that you are a fool of limited
> > intelligence.
>
> Mickey learned that "debating trade" maneuver from the Krooborg. Did you
> know Mickey thinks of the Krooborg as a "leader"? His word, not mine.
>
> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>
> If discriminating because of race makes you a racist, and discriminating
> on sex makes you a sexist, why doesn't discriminating because of genetics
> make you a geneticist?
>
> Mickey's response: "Thank you for admitting you discriminate because of
> genetics."
>
I see that Mikey is actually copying Arny's "diction".
Watching Dr. Strangelove's arm rise to the salute, I realize that the siren
of demagogery is in our genes.
Do the Krueger Youth sew "X"es on their arms?

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:%ciLe.359$Ji.305@lakeread02...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>
> Sounds rather bigoted to me.
>
> ScottW
>
I'm sorry. Mikey is "special."

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "George Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
[snip]
> I'm open to discussing anything for which there is evidence. Merely
> speculating that there might be something we don't know about listening is
> nothing but mental masturbation, and a pointless excercise.
>
> The pro ABX side presents evidence, teh anti-ABX side presents rhetoric,
> most of it pointlessly nasty.
>
Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
differences they hear. He is a mere pseudoscientist, a poseur, a fraud, and
a charlatan. And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What people
think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination. But
you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple "fact."

You chose to "follow" Arny because you are a born follower. You never had an
original thought in your head. And unfortunately, you picked the wrong
person to follow.

[George M. Middius]

DummyBorgJr whined:

> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>
> Sounds rather bigoted to me.

Yes, how terribly bigoted. We have to stamp out all this bigotry. God
knows we're all the same and there are no differences among us. We're all
equally smart, and equally talented, and equally musical, and equally
logical. Stop all that discriminatory thinking at once!

[arny krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...

> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
> cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> differences they hear.

Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX box in the middle 1970s
when there were no sound cards - and not really any PCs, either.

The relays were far from being undersized -they were if anything oversized.

The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the relays ran off of 28
volts DC, because that was the military standard at the time.

> And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What people
> think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
> But
> you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> "fact."

Muddled thinking, anybody?

[arny krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> Jon Yaeger said:
>
>> > If any one knows
>> > of a rebel, non-advertising audio magazine, please tell.

>> I don't think there is one, West. Why don't you start one?

> He can't. He doesn't have the $30 per month for web hosting.

If Middius had a clue about web hosting, he'd know that for $30 one can have
a web site for about half a year.

http://hostony.com/

I wish that I would have Reaped the web site that Middius threw together for
Graham. It was a total train wreck, even as a parody of a train wreck!

[paul packer]

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 09:53:36 -0400, "Arny Krueger" >
wrote:

> wrote in message
oups.com
>> Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
>>>
>>> You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has
>>> zero oversight on things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo
>>> disks, that make people laugh at you when you try to
>>> claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
>>> anyone with a shred of integrity would be offended to
>>> let the glowing reviews that the dolts at SP penned ever
>>> see light of day.
>
>>> (Begin Dance here)
>
>> The "Atkinson Two-step"!
>
>I wonder at Audiophools like Paul Packer and the rest of the
>Middius dupes who don't seem to understand that SP's
>economically efficacious promotion of snake oil like Shakti
>Stones and Mpingo
>disks, is based on how incredibly easy it is to manipulate
>sighted evaluations.

Don't take my name in vain, Arnie. First, I'm not a Middius dupe, or a
Middius anything. Secondly I've never believed in anything more way
out than damping spurious vibrations in CD player cases. Over the
years I've laughed at most of the 'tweaks'; what you've mentioned
above I've never even heard of, and would no doubt laugh harder if I
had. Why accuse me of belief in hi-fi voodoo without a shred of
evidence?

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> Don't take my name in vain, Arnie. First, I'm not a Middius dupe, or a
> Middius anything. Secondly I've never believed in anything more way
> out than damping spurious vibrations in CD player cases. Over the
> years I've laughed at most of the 'tweaks'; what you've mentioned
> above I've never even heard of, and would no doubt laugh harder if I
> had. Why accuse me of belief in hi-fi voodoo without a shred of
> evidence?

Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject test's without any
sicccnecicctfic evadence. Thats called niavate. Thanks Mr. Picker for
admitting that you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)

[sam]

"arny krueger" > wrote
>
> I wish that I would have Reaped the web site that Middius threw together
> for Graham. It was a ... parody of a train wreck!


Thanks for admitting Mr Krooger, that your website was a train wreck.

[paul packer]

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:40:12 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:

>
>
>paul packer said:
>
>> Don't take my name in vain, Arnie. First, I'm not a Middius dupe, or a
>> Middius anything. Secondly I've never believed in anything more way
>> out than damping spurious vibrations in CD player cases. Over the
>> years I've laughed at most of the 'tweaks'; what you've mentioned
>> above I've never even heard of, and would no doubt laugh harder if I
>> had. Why accuse me of belief in hi-fi voodoo without a shred of
>> evidence?
>
>Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject test's without any
>sicccnecicctfic evadence. Thats called niavate. Thanks Mr. Picker for
>admitting that you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)

Nice impersonation, George.

[John Atkinson]

wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >
> > wrote:
> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> >> oups.com...
> >> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
> >> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
> >> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
> >> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
> >>
> >> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
> >> discussion.
> >
> > What's to review?
>
> Context. Look it up.

Okay, you've now had, what, two days to examine the context.
How about an answer to my question, Mr. McKelvy.

> You made an an unambiguous, unqualified
> > statement that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>
> That I am awarre of.

Okay, as there is no factual evidence in the Google record
for the untrue statements Arny Krueger has made about me,
why are you relying on faith as support for your claim
that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."

> > I have repeatedly offered you factual evidence that you were
> > incorrect. All you have left to support your position is your
> > unsupported faith in Mr. Krueger's honesty.

No comment from Mr. McKelvy. Not that it matters if it weren't
for Mr. McMkelvy's much-repeated statement that unlike those he
attacks, _he_ is the one who rejects faith and only relies on
hard evidence to form his opinions. Yet in this instance, _all_
he has to go on is faith.

> >>why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches in
> >>public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
> >
> > I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
> > projection on your part, I suggest.
>
> Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported
> it in the Audio Critic.

Can you give a reference, please.

> > Yes, Michael Fremer did get
> > into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
> > was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
> > the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
> > having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
> > blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
> > convention.
>
> So Arny wanted proof, what a *******/

Michael was offering what he felt was proof. Arny Krueger
drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
"demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.

Anyway, come on Mr. McKelvy. You made an unambiguous claim,
against all the evidence in the Google record, that Arny
Krueger has never told a "flat-out lie." I ask again: why
do you cling to this belief in face of the evidence
that you were wrong?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[George Middius]

John Atkinson said:

>Anyway, come on Mr. McKelvy. You made an unambiguous claim,
>against all the evidence in the Google record, that Arny
>Krueger has never told a "flat-out lie." I ask again: why
>do you cling to this belief in face of the evidence
>that you were wrong?

Krooger just told another flat-out lie today when he Kroo-klaimed that I had
designed a website for Graham.

Maybe Mickey should have said that the Krooborg doesn't tell a flat-out lie in
every single post. That would at least appear to be true.

[Robert Morein]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
> > "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> > >> oups.com...
> > >> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
> > >> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
> > >> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
> > >> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
> > >>
> > >> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
> > >> discussion.
> > >
> > > What's to review?
> >
> > Context. Look it up.
>
> Okay, you've now had, what, two days to examine the context.
> How about an answer to my question, Mr. McKelvy.
>
> > You made an an unambiguous, unqualified
> > > statement that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
> >
> > That I am awarre of.
>
> Okay, as there is no factual evidence in the Google record
> for the untrue statements Arny Krueger has made about me,
> why are you relying on faith as support for your claim
> that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>
> > > I have repeatedly offered you factual evidence that you were
> > > incorrect. All you have left to support your position is your
> > > unsupported faith in Mr. Krueger's honesty.
>
> No comment from Mr. McKelvy. Not that it matters if it weren't
> for Mr. McMkelvy's much-repeated statement that unlike those he
> attacks, _he_ is the one who rejects faith and only relies on
> hard evidence to form his opinions. Yet in this instance, _all_
> he has to go on is faith.
>
> > >>why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches in
> > >>public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
> > >
> > > I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
> > > projection on your part, I suggest.
> >
> > Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported
> > it in the Audio Critic.
>
> Can you give a reference, please.
>
> > > Yes, Michael Fremer did get
> > > into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
> > > was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
> > > the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
> > > having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
> > > blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
> > > convention.
> >
> > So Arny wanted proof, what a *******/
>
> Michael was offering what he felt was proof. Arny Krueger
> drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
> "demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.
>
> Anyway, come on Mr. McKelvy. You made an unambiguous claim,
> against all the evidence in the Google record, that Arny
> Krueger has never told a "flat-out lie." I ask again: why
> do you cling to this belief in face of the evidence
> that you were wrong?
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>
From http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/joseph_goebbels.htm
"If you tell a lie, tell a big one."
"When the Führer speaks it is like a divine service".

[Robert Morein]

"arny krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> > differences they hear.
>
> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX box in the middle
1970s
> when there were no sound cards - and not really any PCs, either.
>
> The relays were far from being undersized -they were if anything
oversized.
>
> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the relays ran off of
28
> volts DC, because that was the military standard at the time.
>
> > And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What people
> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
> > But
> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> > "fact."
>
> Muddled thinking, anybody?
>
Realistic, not simplistic.

[dave weil]

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 05:29:14 -0400, "arny krueger" >
wrote:

>
>I wish that I would have Reaped the web site that Middius threw together for
>Graham. It was a total train wreck, even as a parody of a train wreck!

Thanks for admiting that your site is a "train wreck".

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> >> Why accuse me of belief in hi-fi voodoo without a shred of
> >> evidence?

> >Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject test's without any
> >sicccnecicctfic evadence. Thats called niavate. Thanks Mr. Picker for
> >admitting that you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)
>
> Nice impersonation, George.

Thank you. Krooglish is pretty easy to mock. Try it and see. :-)

[[email protected]]

"Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
...
> In rec.audio.opinion west > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Mike McKelvy said to John Atkinson:
>> > >
>> > > You have yet to adequately address why your magazine has zero
>> > > oversight
>> on
>> > > things like Shakti Stones and Mpingo disks, that make people laugh at
>> you
>> > > when you try to claim any sort of crediblity. They are fraud, and
>> anyone
>> > > with a shred of integrity would be offended to let the glowing
>> > > reviews
>> that
>> > > the dolts at SP penned ever see light of day.
>
>> Remember the days when Harry Pearson, et al, would say things like, "This
>> is
>> the same crap that XYZ has been putting out ..." I suppose money wins
>> out
>> in the end because you can't bite the hand that feeds you. If any one
>> knows
>> of a rebel, non-advertising audio magazine, please tell.
>> Cordially,
>> west
>
> here you go:
>
> http://www.theaudiocritic.com/cwo/Web_Zine/
>
>
>
Interesting article comparing Atkinson to Dr. Zaius, from Planet of the
Apes.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:40:12 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
> [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:

>>Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject test's without any
>>sicccnecicctfic evadence. Thats called niavate. Thanks Mr. Picker for
>>admitting that you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)

> Nice impersonation, George.

Nice suck-up job, Paul.

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> >> oups.com...
>> >> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
>> >> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
>> >> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
>> >> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
>> >>
>> >> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
>> >> discussion.
>> >
>> > What's to review?
>>
>> Context. Look it up.
>
> Okay, you've now had, what, two days to examine the context.
> How about an answer to my question, Mr. McKelvy.
>
What makes you think I spend my free time, my liesure time trying to figure
out who's telling the truth.


>> You made an an unambiguous, unqualified
>> > statement that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>>
>> That I am awarre of.
>
> Okay, as there is no factual evidence in the Google record
> for the untrue statements Arny Krueger has made about me,
> why are you relying on faith as support for your claim
> that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>
I made that statement before you mentioned the alleged lies.
I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at least not aty
this time, particularly since the only reason you bring it up is to take the
spotlight off yourself, and your con game magazine.

>> >>why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches in
>> >>public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
>> >
>> > I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
>> > projection on your part, I suggest.
>>
>> Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported
>> it in the Audio Critic.
>
> Can you give a reference, please.
>
>> > Yes, Michael Fremer did get
>> > into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
>> > was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
>> > the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
>> > having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
>> > blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
>> > convention.
>>
>> So Arny wanted proof, what a *******/
>
> Michael was offering what he felt was proof.

Bull****, he was offering an unsupported anedcote.

Arny Krueger
> drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
> "demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.
>
Fremer likes to scream when challenged. He doesn't handle the truth very
well.

When are you going to admit that you and all the other clowns at SP already
know that ABX is quite suitable for determing subtle differences and that in
most cases there really aren't any?

Shall we call you Dr. Zaius from now on?

[Arny Krueger]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...

> "Steven Sullivan" > wrote in message
> ...

>> here you go:

>> http://www.theaudiocritic.com/cwo/Web_Zine/

> Interesting article comparing Atkinson to Dr. Zaius, from Planet of the
> Apes.

If you listen to Atkinson's and Middius' version of Science, it is clearly
from an alternative universe.

Sighted Listening tests - the same technology that gave us Green CD pens,
Shakti stones and Mpingo disks.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "George Middius" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
> [snip]
>> I'm open to discussing anything for which there is evidence. Merely
>> speculating that there might be something we don't know about listening
>> is
>> nothing but mental masturbation, and a pointless excercise.
>>
>> The pro ABX side presents evidence, teh anti-ABX side presents rhetoric,
>> most of it pointlessly nasty.
>>
> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
> cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> differences they hear.

And he was one of them. He put the abx box together to prove that
differences DO exist, you ****ing moron.

He is a mere pseudoscientist, a poseur, a fraud, and
> a charlatan. And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What people
> think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
> But
> you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> "fact."
>

You can't seem to get your head around the fact that things either sound
different or not. There are reliable ways to discover if there are
differences, and one of them is ABX.

> You chose to "follow" Arny because you are a born follower. You never had
> an
> original thought in your head. And unfortunately, you picked the wrong
> person to follow.
>
A. I'm not following him, we simply agree on the validity of DBT's for
audio.
B. I have original thoughts all the time, just not about a hack like you.
C. You don't know science any better than you know the law or the size of
that telescope.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
>> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
>> > differences they hear.
>>
>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX box in the middle
> 1970s
>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any PCs, either.
>>
>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were if anything
> oversized.
>>
>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the relays ran off of
> 28
>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at the time.
>>
>> > And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
>> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What
>> > people
>> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
>> > But
>> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
>> > "fact."
>>
>> Muddled thinking, anybody?
>>
> Realistic, not simplistic.
>
Many pieces of audio gear sound the same.
Realistic and simplistic, not to mention absolutely true.

[[email protected]]

"sam" > wrote in message
...
> " > wrote
>>
>>> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the way
>>> around it?
>> Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim with
>> no evidence.
>
>
> What claim is that? The one you agree with?
The one that there might be some unknown that affects human enjoyment of
audio.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "sam" > wrote in message
> ...
>> " > wrote
>> >
>> >> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the
> way
>> >> around it?
>> > Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim
>> > with
>> > no evidence.
>>
>>
>> What claim is that? The one you agree with?
>>
> Sam, you're arguing with something at the level of machine intelligence.
> Mikey's mantra is that he must repeat this lie, because it helps him
> believe
> he knows some little piece of valuable knowledge.
> The world is littered with broken minds, mental machinery that belongs in
> a
> dump, if it isn't already there.
>
Could you put yourself out on the curb, we'll have you picked up and
disposed of, along with all the other anti-reason, audio trash.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:%ciLe.359$Ji.305@lakeread02...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>>
>> Sounds rather bigoted to me.
>>
>> ScottW
>>
> I'm sorry. Mikey is "special."
>
The typical tactic from someone who already knows he's lost. Claim the
opponent is inferior or defective. Demean them and maybe it won't make you
feel like such an idiot, even though you've demonstrated repeatedly that you
are simply a sore loser.

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
> projection on your part, I suggest. Yes, Michael Fremer did get
> into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
> was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
> the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
> having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
> blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
> convention.

Wow, and I was there. Such a convincing story.

Fremer was squealing loudly like a stuck pig, about that 17-year-old
demonstration. I only raised my voice so that I could hear myself speak.
Fremer's problem was that in any shouting match, the balance of vocal power
is likely to be on my side.

Anybody with a brain, who doesn't also read Fremer's Stereophile articles is
probably asking themselves why Fremer is such a captive of the distant past.
People who read Stereophile know the sad truth. It's how he is, and its how
Atkinson has been rewarding him for being.

[[email protected]]

Mike McKelvy said to the Slimey Limey:
>
>
<snipped>
>
>
> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud [with Arny Krueger], > at least not at
> this time, particularly since the only reason you bring it up is to take the
> spotlight off yourself, and your con game magazine.
>
>
So you noticed that, too, eh?
>
>
<more snippage>
>
>
> When are you going to admit that you and all the other clowns at SP already
> know that ABX is quite suitable for determing subtle differences and that in
> most cases there really aren't any?
>
>
Any day now, I'm sure....
>
>
> Shall we call you Dr. Zaius from now on?
>
>
Let's not slander the poor ape! ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied in message
>> ...

>> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
>> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
>> > differences they hear.

>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX box in the middle
>> 1970s
>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any PCs, either.

>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were if anything
> oversized.

>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the relays ran off of
>> 28
>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at the time.

>> > And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
>> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What
>> > people
>> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
>> > But
>> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
>> > "fact."
>>
>> Muddled thinking, anybody?

> Realistic, not simplistic.

It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in quick succession
doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you sear your conscience so thoroughly?

[Arny Krueger]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...


> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at least not at
> this time, particularly since the only reason you bring it up is to take
> the spotlight off yourself, and your con game magazine.

Good call.

John seems to want everybody to think that he's so gentle that butter won't
melt in his mouth. But he has shown his true personality in the past with
posts like this one:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/2874d1ae24a1ed78

"Except that I didn't deny accusing Mr. Krueger of plagiarism. Instead
I voiced my suspicion that Mr. Krueger is insane.

"Insane. Or at least delusional.

"Insane. Or at least someone who believes he can read minds.

"Insane

"Insane, Or at least paranoid.

"Perhaps dangerously paranoid.

[George Middius]

EnvyBorg turns green.

>> Nice impersonation, George.

>Nice suck-up job, Paul.

Can anybody remember the last time somebody complimented Arnii for being clever?
Anybody? Anybody at all.....?

[George Middius]

Mickey, have you been chasing your cockroach platter with toad skins?

> > Arny Krueger
> > drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
> > "demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.

> Fremer likes to scream when challenged. He doesn't handle
> the truth very well.

Has anybody else noticed how difficult it is to predict the next impossibly
stupid thing Mikey will say? I swear, after he called the Krooborg a "leader", I
thought the limit had been reached. Then he called Arnii "supremely confident",
and I was flabbergasted. Then he topped that by claiming Arnii never lies, and I
nearly fell off my chair. Now Mikey tells us that the Krooborg's obnoxious
haranguing of Fremer was "the truth" and implies that Fremer is too sensitive
for reponding in kind.

Mickey, do you have any idea how you look to Normals? Seriously, do you?

[George Middius]

The Krooborg's guts are churning.

>Sighted Listening tests - the same technology

Thanks for admitting Mr. Krooborg that you have no idea what "technology" means.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "sam" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> " > wrote
> >> >
> >> >> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the
> > way
> >> >> around it?
> >> > Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim
> >> > with
> >> > no evidence.
> >>
> >>
> >> What claim is that? The one you agree with?
> >>
> > Sam, you're arguing with something at the level of machine intelligence.
> > Mikey's mantra is that he must repeat this lie, because it helps him
> > believe
> > he knows some little piece of valuable knowledge.
> > The world is littered with broken minds, mental machinery that belongs
in
> > a
> > dump, if it isn't already there.
> >
> Could you put yourself out on the curb, we'll have you picked up and
> disposed of, along with all the other anti-reason, audio trash.
>
I give Mikey a theme, and he runs with it :)

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "arny krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
>
> >> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied in message
> >> ...
>
> >> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate
parts,
> >> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> >> > differences they hear.
>
> >> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX box in the middle
> >> 1970s
> >> when there were no sound cards - and not really any PCs, either.
>
> >> The relays were far from being undersized -they were if anything
> > oversized.
>
> >> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the relays ran off
of
> >> 28
> >> volts DC, because that was the military standard at the time.
>
> >> > And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
> >> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What
> >> > people
> >> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and
imagination.
> >> > But
> >> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> >> > "fact."
> >>
> >> Muddled thinking, anybody?
>
> > Realistic, not simplistic.
>
> It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in quick succession
> doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you sear your conscience so thoroughly?
>
Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're trying to get you out
of.

[[email protected]]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "arny krueger" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> >
> > >> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied in message
> > >> ...
> >
> > >> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate
> parts,
> > >> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> > >> > differences they hear.
> >
> > >> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX box in the middle
> > >> 1970s
> > >> when there were no sound cards - and not really any PCs, either.
> >
> > >> The relays were far from being undersized -they were if anything
> > > oversized.
> >
> > >> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the relays ran off
> of
> > >> 28
> > >> volts DC, because that was the military standard at the time.
> >
> > >> > And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's as
> > >> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What
> > >> > people
> > >> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and
> imagination.
> > >> > But
> > >> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> > >> > "fact."
> > >>
> > >> Muddled thinking, anybody?
> >
> > > Realistic, not simplistic.
> >
> > It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in quick succession
> > doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you sear your conscience so thoroughly?
> >
> Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're trying to get you out
> of.
>
>
Morein, you become more like a low-rez copy of "Middius" with each
passing day.
>
>
There's something to look forward to: being a cheesy copy of a
psychotic asshole. :-O

[John Atkinson]

wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > wrote:
> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> >> ups.com...
> >> > wrote:
> >> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> >> >> oups.com...
> >> >> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
> >> >> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
> >> >> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
> >> >> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
> >> >>
> >> >> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of
> >> >> the discussion.
> >> >
> >> > What's to review?
> >>
> >> Context. Look it up.
> >
> > Okay, you've now had, what, two days to examine the context.
> > How about an answer to my question, Mr. McKelvy.
>
> What makes you think I spend my free time, my liesure time trying
> to figure out who's telling the truth.

I assumed, Mr. McKelvy, that because you introduced this topic, you
were indeed willing to spend your free time, your leisure time,
figuring out who was telling the truth. It hardly seem fair for
to complain about having the burden of proof in connection with
as subject _you_ raised.

> >> You made an an unambiguous, unqualified statement that "Arny
> >> Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
> >>
> >> That I am awarre of.
> >
> > Okay, as there is no factual evidence in the Google record
> > for the untrue statements Arny Krueger has made about me,
> > why are you relying on faith as support for your claim
> > that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>
> I made that statement before you mentioned the alleged lies.

No, you made a few days after my last mention of the untruths,
in a thread to which you were contributing, and what, six weeks,
after you last discussed the matter with me.

> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at
> least not at this time, particularly since the only reason you
> bring it up is to take the spotlight off yourself, and your
> con game magazine.

Regardless of your incorrect guesses about my motives, Mr.
Mckelvy, this is about a matter of logic, about sorting
facts from faith. You have been very quick to claim that you
are only intersted in facts, yet when I have showed you that
you claim about Mr. Krueger's lack of mendacity is not
supported by the evidence in the Google record, you can
neither support what you said, nor withdraw it. Instead,
you indulge yourself in name-calling.

All I am saying Mr. McKelvy, is that as shown by this exchange,
your position is based on faith alone. Which is ironic indeed,
given your pronouncements. :-)

> >> >> why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches
> >> >> in public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
> >> >
> >> > I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
> >> > projection on your part, I suggest.
> >>
> >> Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported
> >> it in the Audio Critic.
> >
> > Can you give a reference, please.

No response from Mr. McKelvy. Why is is so hard for you believers
in "Scientism" ever to substantiate what you say, Mr. McKelvy? This
is a reasonable request, I thought: you made a claim about the
behavior of one of my writers; I would like to be able to read for
myself what Tom Nousaine wrote. Why are you afraid of me doing so?

<snip of more namecalling>

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Arny Krueger]

George Middius wrote:
> EnvyBorg turns green.
>
>>> Nice impersonation, George.
>
>> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
>
> Can anybody remember the last time somebody complimented
> Arnii for being clever? Anybody? Anybody at all.....?

Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?

[Arny Krueger]

George Middius wrote:
> Mickey, have you been chasing your cockroach platter with
> toad skins?
>
>>> Arny Krueger
>>> drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
>>> "demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.
>
>> Fremer likes to scream when challenged. He doesn't
>> handle the truth very well.
>
> Has anybody else noticed how difficult it is to predict
> the next impossibly stupid thing Mikey will say?

What's wrong with what Mikey said?

Based on personal, face-to-face experience Fremer is quite
hysterical, as his obsession with a 17-year-old listening
test demonstrates quite nicely.

Middius, when is the last time you had a face-to-face
disagreement with Fremer?

[[email protected]]

Mike McKelvy wrote:
>
> > I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud [with Arny Krueger], at
> > least not at this time, particularly since the only reason you
> > bring it up is to take the spotlight off yourself, and your
> > con game magazine.
>
>
The Slimey Limey lied:
>
> Regardless of your incorrect guesses about my motives
>
>
"incorrect guesses about [your] motives" ??? LOL! The fact that you
are, indeed, attempting to divert attention away from your sleazy, con
game publication and toward the minutia of your personal feud with Arny
Krueger is painfully obvious.

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" > wrote
in message
oups.com

> I assumed, Mr. McKelvy, that because you introduced this
> topic, you were indeed willing to spend your free time,
> your leisure time, figuring out who was telling the
> truth. It hardly seem fair for to complain about having
> the burden of proof in
> connection with as subject _you_ raised.

Given your recent and past deceptive behaviour Atkinson, why
are you trying to shame yourself further by sending someone
on a quest for truth? The truth is obvious to many - your
ragazine uses the truth only as a guardian of a large number
of commercially-expedient falsehoods. The sighted listening
tests that your magazine promotes have given us such
sterling examples of snake oil such as Green CD pens,
Shakti stones and Mpingo disks.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>
>>>> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied
>>>> in message ...
>>
>>>>> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of
>>>>> second-rate parts, cheapo sound card and undersized
>>>>> relays, people were talking about differences they
>>>>> hear.
>>
>>>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX
>>>> box in the middle 1970s
>>>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any
>>>> PCs, either.
>>
>>>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were
>>>> if anything oversized.
>>
>>>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the
>>>> relays ran off of 28
>>>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at
>>>> the time.
>>
>>>>> And that doesn't make all that has gone before false.
>>>>> It's as
>>>>> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a
>>>>> mixture. What people
>>>>> think and say about audio is a mixture of true,
>>>>> false, and imagination. But
>>>>> you can't seem to get your head around a concept that
>>>>> isn't a simple "fact."
>>>>
>>>> Muddled thinking, anybody?
>>
>>> Realistic, not simplistic.
>>
>> It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in
>> quick succession doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you
>> sear your conscience so thoroughly?
>>
> Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're
> trying to get you out of.

So Morein, what's wrong with publishing a public correction
of three of your more recent lies?

[George M. Middius]

More feces from the King of ****.

> > Can anybody remember the last time somebody complimented
> > Arnii for being clever? Anybody? Anybody at all.....?
>
> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
> Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?

God, you are so desperate. Doesn't the Big Sleep appeal to you at all?

[George M. Middius]

KrazyBorg begs for pity.

> John seems to want everybody to think that he's so gentle that butter won't
> melt in his mouth. But he has shown his true personality in the past with
> posts like this one:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/2874d1ae24a1ed78
>
> "Except that I didn't deny accusing Mr. Krueger of plagiarism. Instead
> I voiced my suspicion that Mr. Krueger is insane.

Mr. ****, could you please explain how that reflects badly on his
character? To me it seem just an opinion. Calling you a liar and a
hypocrite, while thoroughly justified by the evidence, could at least be
construed as insulting. But merely observing that you seem to be insane
doesn't meet that test.

Here's a riddle for you: If you weren't crazy, you wouldn't suffer from
the delusion that pointing out your craziness is an attack on you.

[Clyde Slick]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> wrote:
>>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>>> >> oups.com...
>>> >> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
>>> >> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
>>> >> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
>>> >> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
>>> >>
>>> >> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of the
>>> >> discussion.
>>> >
>>> > What's to review?
>>>
>>> Context. Look it up.
>>
>> Okay, you've now had, what, two days to examine the context.
>> How about an answer to my question, Mr. McKelvy.
>>
> What makes you think I spend my free time, my liesure time trying to
> figure out who's telling the truth.
>
>
>>> You made an an unambiguous, unqualified
>>> > statement that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>>>
>>> That I am awarre of.
>>
>> Okay, as there is no factual evidence in the Google record
>> for the untrue statements Arny Krueger has made about me,
>> why are you relying on faith as support for your claim
>> that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>>
> I made that statement before you mentioned the alleged lies.
> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at least not aty
> this time, particularly since the only reason you bring it up is to take
> the spotlight off yourself, and your con game magazine.
>
>>> >>why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches in
>>> >>public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
>>> >
>>> > I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
>>> > projection on your part, I suggest.
>>>
>>> Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported
>>> it in the Audio Critic.
>>
>> Can you give a reference, please.
>>
>>> > Yes, Michael Fremer did get
>>> > into a shouting match with Arny Krueger at HE2005, but that
>>> > was because Mr. Krueger started screaming "Demonstration" at
>>> > the top of his voice, drowning out Mr. Fremer's reporting of
>>> > having achieved what he felt to be identification in a
>>> > blind test of amplifiers that took place at the 1988 AES
>>> > convention.
>>>
>>> So Arny wanted proof, what a *******/
>>
>> Michael was offering what he felt was proof.
>
> Bull****, he was offering an unsupported anedcote.
>
> Arny Krueger
>> drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
>> "demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.
>>
> Fremer likes to scream when challenged. He doesn't handle the truth very
> well.
>
> When are you going to admit that you and all the other clowns at SP
> already know that ABX is quite suitable for determing subtle differences
> and that in most cases there really aren't any?
>
> Shall we call you Dr. Zaius from now on?
>

You have just been elevated to the post of
amateur audio clown. congratulations!
It is not too late to upgrade to professional status,
assuming you can meet the 'rigorous' qualifications.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
>
>> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at least not at
>> this time, particularly since the only reason you bring it up is to take
>> the spotlight off yourself, and your con game magazine.
>
> Good call.
>
> John seems to want everybody to think that he's so gentle that butter
> won't melt in his mouth. But he has shown his true personality in the past
> with posts like this one:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/2874d1ae24a1ed78
>
> "Except that I didn't deny accusing Mr. Krueger of plagiarism. Instead
> I voiced my suspicion that Mr. Krueger is insane.
>
> "Insane. Or at least delusional.
>
> "Insane. Or at least someone who believes he can read minds.
>
> "Insane
>
> "Insane, Or at least paranoid.
>
> "Perhaps dangerously paranoid.
>

INSANE! Most definitely you are insane.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> George Middius wrote:
>> Mickey, have you been chasing your cockroach platter with
>> toad skins?
>>
>>>> Arny Krueger
>>>> drowned out Michael's comments by repeatedly screaming
>>>> "demonstration" at which Michael also started screaming.
>>
>>> Fremer likes to scream when challenged. He doesn't
>>> handle the truth very well.
>>
>> Has anybody else noticed how difficult it is to predict
>> the next impossibly stupid thing Mikey will say?
>
> What's wrong with what Mikey said?
>
> Based on personal, face-to-face experience Fremer is quite hysterical, as
> his obsession with a 17-year-old listening test demonstrates quite nicely.
>

"At least" he is not like you, obsessed with
17 year old boys taking listening tests
in your basement.



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[Clyde Slick]

" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "sam" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> " > wrote
>>> >
>>> >> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the
>> way
>>> >> around it?
>>> > Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim
>>> > with
>>> > no evidence.
>>>
>>>
>>> What claim is that? The one you agree with?
>>>
>> Sam, you're arguing with something at the level of machine intelligence.
>> Mikey's mantra is that he must repeat this lie, because it helps him
>> believe
>> he knows some little piece of valuable knowledge.
>> The world is littered with broken minds, mental machinery that belongs in
>> a
>> dump, if it isn't already there.
>>
> Could you put yourself out on the curb, we'll have you picked up and
> disposed of, along with all the other anti-reason, audio trash.
>

"The typical tactic from someone who already knows he's lost. Claim the
opponent is inferior or defective. Demean them and maybe it won't make you
feel like such an idiot, even though you've demonstrated repeatedly that you
are simply a sore loser."

Mike Mckelvy, three minutes after writing the above, LOL!



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> George Middius wrote:
>> EnvyBorg turns green.
>>
>>>> Nice impersonation, George.
>>
>>> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
>>
>> Can anybody remember the last time somebody complimented
>> Arnii for being clever? Anybody? Anybody at all.....?
>
> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't Atkinson debate
> you at the HE2005 show?
>

Because he wanted to debate an insane person.



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[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>
> >>> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
> >>> ...
> >>
> >>>> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied
> >>>> in message ...
> >>
> >>>>> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of
> >>>>> second-rate parts, cheapo sound card and undersized
> >>>>> relays, people were talking about differences they
> >>>>> hear.
> >>
> >>>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX
> >>>> box in the middle 1970s
> >>>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any
> >>>> PCs, either.
> >>
> >>>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were
> >>>> if anything oversized.
> >>
> >>>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the
> >>>> relays ran off of 28
> >>>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at
> >>>> the time.
> >>
> >>>>> And that doesn't make all that has gone before false.
> >>>>> It's as
> >>>>> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a
> >>>>> mixture. What people
> >>>>> think and say about audio is a mixture of true,
> >>>>> false, and imagination. But
> >>>>> you can't seem to get your head around a concept that
> >>>>> isn't a simple "fact."
> >>>>
> >>>> Muddled thinking, anybody?
> >>
> >>> Realistic, not simplistic.
> >>
> >> It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in
> >> quick succession doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you
> >> sear your conscience so thoroughly?
> >>
> > Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're
> > trying to get you out of.
>
> So Morein, what's wrong with publishing a public correction
> of three of your more recent lies?
>
Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better human beings to
copy.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
k.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > " > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >>
> >> "George Middius" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> > [snip]
> >> I'm open to discussing anything for which there is evidence. Merely
> >> speculating that there might be something we don't know about listening
> >> is
> >> nothing but mental masturbation, and a pointless excercise.
> >>
> >> The pro ABX side presents evidence, teh anti-ABX side presents
rhetoric,
> >> most of it pointlessly nasty.
> >>
> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> > differences they hear.
>
> And he was one of them. He put the abx box together to prove that
> differences DO exist, you ****ing moron.
>
> He is a mere pseudoscientist, a poseur, a fraud, and
> > a charlatan. And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's
as
> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What people
> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
> > But
> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> > "fact."
> >
>
> You can't seem to get your head around the fact that things either sound
> different or not. There are reliable ways to discover if there are
> differences, and one of them is ABX.
>
> > You chose to "follow" Arny because you are a born follower. You never
had
> > an
> > original thought in your head. And unfortunately, you picked the wrong
> > person to follow.
> >
> A. I'm not following him, we simply agree on the validity of DBT's for
> audio.
> B. I have original thoughts all the time, just not about a hack like you.
> C. You don't know science any better than you know the law or the size of
> that telescope.
>
What is this thing about a telescope?

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "ScottW" > wrote in message
> > news:%ciLe.359$Ji.305@lakeread02...
> >>
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
> >>
> >> Sounds rather bigoted to me.
> >>
> >> ScottW
> >>
> > I'm sorry. Mikey is "special."
> >
> The typical tactic from someone who already knows he's lost. Claim the
> opponent is inferior or defective. Demean them and maybe it won't make
you
> feel like such an idiot, even though you've demonstrated repeatedly that
you
> are simply a sore loser.
>
I'm sorry, Mikey. There really are dumb people in the world, and you're one
of them. There is a certain dullness about you, a slowness, a clumsiness of
your mental machinery. You are just not very smart.

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> George Middius wrote:
> > EnvyBorg turns green.
> >
> >>> Nice impersonation, George.
> >
> >> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
> >
> > Can anybody remember the last time somebody complimented
> > Arnii for being clever? Anybody? Anybody at all.....?
>
> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
> Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?
>
Arny, he felt you were worth destroying. But when he had you in his sights,
Atkinson's tender mercies let you live.
We made the same mistake with Osama Bin Laden.
We made the same

[paul packer]

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:12:51 GMT, "
> wrote:


>Many pieces of audio gear sound the same.

Is that really true? I mean, if dogs can detect smells we have no hope
of detecting, maybe there are sound quality differences some of us are
not equipped to detect, and some of us are. Maybe all audio gear
sounds different, but only some can detect it. In which case the
argument will go on ad infinitum, and Arnie's infernal box will never
settle it. What Arnie needs to invent is a large bionic ear with
supersonic hearing, which upon detecting distortion or colouration
beyond a certain point, will immediately fire a large calibre bullet
into the casing of the unit in question, and a smaller calibre bullet
into the head of the designer. That would certainly mean an
exponential improvement in hi-fi generally over a short period.

[paul packer]

On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:00:57 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:

>
>"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:40:12 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
>> [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:
>
>>>Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject test's without any
>>>sicccnecicctfic evadence. Thats called niavate. Thanks Mr. Picker for
>>>admitting that you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)
>
>> Nice impersonation, George.
>
>Nice suck-up job, Paul.

That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie. It just happens to be
wrong, like nearly everything else you've said lately.

[[email protected]]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> George Middius wrote:
>>> EnvyBorg turns green.
>>>
>>>>> Nice impersonation, George.
>>>
>>>> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
>>>
>>> Can anybody remember the last time somebody complimented
>>> Arnii for being clever? Anybody? Anybody at all.....?
>>
>> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't Atkinson debate
>> you at the HE2005 show?
>>
>
> Because he wanted to debate an insane person.
>
>
Greg Singh wasn't available?

[[email protected]]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>
>
>> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at least not at
>> this time, particularly since the only reason you bring it up is to take
>> the spotlight off yourself, and your con game magazine.
>
> Good call.
>
> John seems to want everybody to think that he's so gentle that butter
> won't melt in his mouth. But he has shown his true personality in the past
> with posts like this one:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/2874d1ae24a1ed78
>
> "Except that I didn't deny accusing Mr. Krueger of plagiarism. Instead
> I voiced my suspicion that Mr. Krueger is insane.
>
> "Insane. Or at least delusional.
>
> "Insane. Or at least someone who believes he can read minds.
>
> "Insane
>
> "Insane, Or at least paranoid.
>
> "Perhaps dangerously paranoid.
Oh well, he's obvioously ever so much more refined than youse. :-)

[[email protected]]

"John Atkinson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> wrote:
>> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > wrote:
>> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in message
>> >> ups.com...
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> "John Atkinson" > wrote in
>> >> >> message
>> >> >> oups.com...
>> >> >> > So I ask again: your poor memory for your own actions
>> >> >> > notwithstanding, why, in the face of the evidence that I haven't
>> >> >> > done the things Arny accuses me of, do you cling to your faith
>> >> >> > that Arny has never told a "flat-out lie"...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I won't comment on it until or unless I review the context of
>> >> >> the discussion.
>> >> >
>> >> > What's to review?
>> >>
>> >> Context. Look it up.
>> >
>> > Okay, you've now had, what, two days to examine the context.
>> > How about an answer to my question, Mr. McKelvy.
>>
>> What makes you think I spend my free time, my liesure time trying
>> to figure out who's telling the truth.
>
> I assumed, Mr. McKelvy, that because you introduced this topic, you
> were indeed willing to spend your free time, your leisure time,
> figuring out who was telling the truth.

It's an audio NG that's what I'm most concerned with. While I may
particpate in some of the rabble rousing, it's not often that I feel the
need to use Google to figure out who said what, when, or who is more honest.
In the area of audio, Arny gets a very high score. You get bupkis. Your
magazine is a promoter of fraudulent merchandise, your reviewers should all
have either their heads or their ears examined. In Fremer's case, both.



It hardly seem fair for
> to complain about having the burden of proof in connection with
> as subject _you_ raised.
>
>> >> You made an an unambiguous, unqualified statement that "Arny
>> >> Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>> >>
>> >> That I am awarre of.
>> >
>> > Okay, as there is no factual evidence in the Google record
>> > for the untrue statements Arny Krueger has made about me,
>> > why are you relying on faith as support for your claim
>> > that "Arny Krueger has never told a flat-out lie."
>>
>> I made that statement before you mentioned the alleged lies.
>
> No, you made a few days after my last mention of the untruths,
> in a thread to which you were contributing, and what, six weeks,
> after you last discussed the matter with me.
>
>> I don't see any reason to investigate your personal feud, at
>> least not at this time, particularly since the only reason you
>> bring it up is to take the spotlight off yourself, and your
>> con game magazine.
>
> Regardless of your incorrect guesses about my motives, Mr.
> Mckelvy, this is about a matter of logic, about sorting
> facts from faith. You have been very quick to claim that you
> are only intersted in facts, yet when I have showed you that
> you claim about Mr. Krueger's lack of mendacity is not
> supported by the evidence in the Google record, you can
> neither support what you said, nor withdraw it. Instead,
> you indulge yourself in name-calling.
>
> All I am saying Mr. McKelvy, is that as shown by this exchange,
> your position is based on faith alone. Which is ironic indeed,
> given your pronouncements. :-)
>
>> >> >> why you can't hire people who won't get into screaming matches
>> >> >> in public, like Fremer did with Nousaine?
>> >> >
>> >> > I am not aware of this happening, Mr. McKelvy. More faith-based
>> >> > projection on your part, I suggest.
>> >>
>> >> Fremer does work for you right? Did you ask him? Nousaine reported
>> >> it in the Audio Critic.
>> >
>> > Can you give a reference, please.
>
> No response from Mr. McKelvy. Why is is so hard for you believers
> in "Scientism" ever to substantiate what you say, Mr. McKelvy? This
> is a reasonable request, I thought: you made a claim about the
> behavior of one of my writers; I would like to be able to read for
> myself what Tom Nousaine wrote. Why are you afraid of me doing so?
>
> <snip of more namecalling>
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
> [snip]
>> >
>> > Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like ****,
>> > and
>> > they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.
>> >
>> How many do you usually take in a day?
>>
> None, Mikey. Try a little truth serum on your pancakes. You'll be shocked
> to
> hear what you say.
>
I'm pretty sure I'd still think your an ass either way.

[[email protected]]

"paul packer" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:12:51 GMT, "
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Many pieces of audio gear sound the same.
>
> Is that really true? I mean, if dogs can detect smells we have no hope
> of detecting, maybe there are sound quality differences some of us are
> not equipped to detect, and some of us are.

There exists measurement gear that can "hear" things way beyond our ear's
capability.

Maybe all audio gear
> sounds different, but only some can detect it.

If that were true wouldn't someone have been able to tell in a DBT?

In which case the
> argument will go on ad infinitum, and Arnie's infernal box will never
> settle it.

I's already settled for most people who work in any audio field, outside
hi-fi.
Cel phones and hearing aids being just 2 examples.

What Arnie needs to invent is a large bionic ear with
> supersonic hearing, which upon detecting distortion or colouration
> beyond a certain point, will immediately fire a large calibre bullet
> into the casing of the unit in question, and a smaller calibre bullet
> into the head of the designer. That would certainly mean an
> exponential improvement in hi-fi generally over a short period.

I think it would probably only take out the drug store stereo stuff asnd the
boom boxes, plus every SET on earth, oh yeah, and all the turntables.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>>
>> >>> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
>> >>> ...
>> >>
>> >>>> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied
>> >>>> in message ...
>> >>
>> >>>>> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of
>> >>>>> second-rate parts, cheapo sound card and undersized
>> >>>>> relays, people were talking about differences they
>> >>>>> hear.
>> >>
>> >>>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX
>> >>>> box in the middle 1970s
>> >>>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any
>> >>>> PCs, either.
>> >>
>> >>>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were
>> >>>> if anything oversized.
>> >>
>> >>>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the
>> >>>> relays ran off of 28
>> >>>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at
>> >>>> the time.
>> >>
>> >>>>> And that doesn't make all that has gone before false.
>> >>>>> It's as
>> >>>>> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a
>> >>>>> mixture. What people
>> >>>>> think and say about audio is a mixture of true,
>> >>>>> false, and imagination. But
>> >>>>> you can't seem to get your head around a concept that
>> >>>>> isn't a simple "fact."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Muddled thinking, anybody?
>> >>
>> >>> Realistic, not simplistic.
>> >>
>> >> It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in
>> >> quick succession doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you
>> >> sear your conscience so thoroughly?
>> >>
>> > Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're
>> > trying to get you out of.
>>
>> So Morein, what's wrong with publishing a public correction
>> of three of your more recent lies?
>>
> Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better human beings to
> copy.
>
If irony killed.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> k.net...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > " > wrote in message
>> > nk.net...
>> >>
>> >> "George Middius" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> > [snip]
>> >> I'm open to discussing anything for which there is evidence. Merely
>> >> speculating that there might be something we don't know about
>> >> listening
>> >> is
>> >> nothing but mental masturbation, and a pointless excercise.
>> >>
>> >> The pro ABX side presents evidence, teh anti-ABX side presents
> rhetoric,
>> >> most of it pointlessly nasty.
>> >>
>> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate parts,
>> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
>> > differences they hear.
>>
>> And he was one of them. He put the abx box together to prove that
>> differences DO exist, you ****ing moron.
>>
>> He is a mere pseudoscientist, a poseur, a fraud, and
>> > a charlatan. And that doesn't make all that has gone before false. It's
> as
>> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What
>> > people
>> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and imagination.
>> > But
>> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
>> > "fact."
>> >
>>
>> You can't seem to get your head around the fact that things either sound
>> different or not. There are reliable ways to discover if there are
>> differences, and one of them is ABX.
>>
>> > You chose to "follow" Arny because you are a born follower. You never
> had
>> > an
>> > original thought in your head. And unfortunately, you picked the wrong
>> > person to follow.
>> >
>> A. I'm not following him, we simply agree on the validity of DBT's for
>> audio.
>> B. I have original thoughts all the time, just not about a hack like
>> you.
>> C. You don't know science any better than you know the law or the size
>> of
>> that telescope.
>>
> What is this thing about a telescope?
>
You don't remember? Think back to how you screwed up the math on the size
of (the Hubble I think) on another NG. RAT or RAP, not positive which, but
I think it was the former.

[[email protected]]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> nk.net...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "ScottW" > wrote in message
>> > news:%ciLe.359$Ji.305@lakeread02...
>> >>
>> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
>> >>
>> >> Sounds rather bigoted to me.
>> >>
>> >> ScottW
>> >>
>> > I'm sorry. Mikey is "special."
>> >
>> The typical tactic from someone who already knows he's lost. Claim the
>> opponent is inferior or defective. Demean them and maybe it won't make
> you
>> feel like such an idiot, even though you've demonstrated repeatedly that
> you
>> are simply a sore loser.
>>
> I'm sorry, Mikey. There really are dumb people in the world, and you're
> one
> of them. There is a certain dullness about you, a slowness, a clumsiness
> of
> your mental machinery. You are just not very smart.
>
Smart enoujgh to know you had no chance in your lawsuit, even before I ever
heard about it.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > " > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >>
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> > [snip]
> >> >
> >> > Oops! Mikey lies again! Try "LieAlot Lozenges". They taste like
****,
> >> > and
> >> > they stick in your throat when you try to tell a Big One.
> >> >
> >> How many do you usually take in a day?
> >>
> > None, Mikey. Try a little truth serum on your pancakes. You'll be
shocked
> > to
> > hear what you say.
> >
> I'm pretty sure I'd still think your an ass either way.
>
Mikey, "your" and "you're" have entirely different meanings.
"Your" is the possessive of "you." It indicates ownership.
"You're" is a contraction of "you are".
Your sentence would read correctly if you had written, " I'm pretty sure I'd
still think you're an ass either way."
But you are a near illiterate, and you really don't belong here.
We must use simple sentences to communicate with you, Mikey. You are not
smart. Smart people do not make the kind of grammatical mistakes that you
make. You are a dummy. I find it inconceivable that you could have an IQ of
131. You're just plain dumb.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >>
> >> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
> >> >>> ...
> >> >>
> >> >>>> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied
> >> >>>> in message ...
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of
> >> >>>>> second-rate parts, cheapo sound card and undersized
> >> >>>>> relays, people were talking about differences they
> >> >>>>> hear.
> >> >>
> >> >>>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX
> >> >>>> box in the middle 1970s
> >> >>>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any
> >> >>>> PCs, either.
> >> >>
> >> >>>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were
> >> >>>> if anything oversized.
> >> >>
> >> >>>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of the
> >> >>>> relays ran off of 28
> >> >>>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at
> >> >>>> the time.
> >> >>
> >> >>>>> And that doesn't make all that has gone before false.
> >> >>>>> It's as
> >> >>>>> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a
> >> >>>>> mixture. What people
> >> >>>>> think and say about audio is a mixture of true,
> >> >>>>> false, and imagination. But
> >> >>>>> you can't seem to get your head around a concept that
> >> >>>>> isn't a simple "fact."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Muddled thinking, anybody?
> >> >>
> >> >>> Realistic, not simplistic.
> >> >>
> >> >> It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in
> >> >> quick succession doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you
> >> >> sear your conscience so thoroughly?
> >> >>
> >> > Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're
> >> > trying to get you out of.
> >>
> >> So Morein, what's wrong with publishing a public correction
> >> of three of your more recent lies?
> >>
> > Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better human beings to
> > copy.
> >
> If irony killed.
>
Mikey, that's Arny's phrase. Only a slave copies his master.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > " > wrote in message
> > k.net...
> >>
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > " > wrote in message
> >> > nk.net...
> >> >>
> >> >> "George Middius" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> >
> >> > [snip]
> >> >> I'm open to discussing anything for which there is evidence. Merely
> >> >> speculating that there might be something we don't know about
> >> >> listening
> >> >> is
> >> >> nothing but mental masturbation, and a pointless excercise.
> >> >>
> >> >> The pro ABX side presents evidence, teh anti-ABX side presents
> > rhetoric,
> >> >> most of it pointlessly nasty.
> >> >>
> >> > Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of second-rate
parts,
> >> > cheapo sound card and undersized relays, people were talking about
> >> > differences they hear.
> >>
> >> And he was one of them. He put the abx box together to prove that
> >> differences DO exist, you ****ing moron.
> >>
> >> He is a mere pseudoscientist, a poseur, a fraud, and
> >> > a charlatan. And that doesn't make all that has gone before false.
It's
> > as
> >> > true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a mixture. What
> >> > people
> >> > think and say about audio is a mixture of true, false, and
imagination.
> >> > But
> >> > you can't seem to get your head around a concept that isn't a simple
> >> > "fact."
> >> >
> >>
> >> You can't seem to get your head around the fact that things either
sound
> >> different or not. There are reliable ways to discover if there are
> >> differences, and one of them is ABX.
> >>
> >> > You chose to "follow" Arny because you are a born follower. You never
> > had
> >> > an
> >> > original thought in your head. And unfortunately, you picked the
wrong
> >> > person to follow.
> >> >
> >> A. I'm not following him, we simply agree on the validity of DBT's for
> >> audio.
> >> B. I have original thoughts all the time, just not about a hack like
> >> you.
> >> C. You don't know science any better than you know the law or the size
> >> of
> >> that telescope.
> >>
> > What is this thing about a telescope?
> >
> You don't remember? Think back to how you screwed up the math on the size
> of (the Hubble I think) on another NG. RAT or RAP, not positive which,
but
> I think it was the former.
>
Mikey, you're imagining things. Your memory is very bad. If you were a smart
person, you would be able to use Google to find the relevant posts. But you
have a dull mind, an average IQ, and can only perform simple tasks.

[Robert Morein]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > " > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> >>
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > "ScottW" > wrote in message
> >> > news:%ciLe.359$Ji.305@lakeread02...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >>
> >> >> > I'm sorry nothing can be done about your heredity.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sounds rather bigoted to me.
> >> >>
> >> >> ScottW
> >> >>
> >> > I'm sorry. Mikey is "special."
> >> >
> >> The typical tactic from someone who already knows he's lost. Claim the
> >> opponent is inferior or defective. Demean them and maybe it won't make
> > you
> >> feel like such an idiot, even though you've demonstrated repeatedly
that
> > you
> >> are simply a sore loser.
> >>
> > I'm sorry, Mikey. There really are dumb people in the world, and you're
> > one
> > of them. There is a certain dullness about you, a slowness, a clumsiness
> > of
> > your mental machinery. You are just not very smart.
> >
> Smart enoujgh to know you had no chance in your lawsuit, even before I
ever
> heard about it.
>
You are not amusing, Mikey. That is another sign of a person with a dull
mind. It's not even a very good insult.
Mikey, you are a dull knife, as your wit is dull.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:12:51 GMT, "
> > wrote:
>
>
>> Many pieces of audio gear sound the same.
>
> Is that really true? I mean, if dogs can detect smells we
> have no hope of detecting, maybe there are sound quality
> differences some of us are not equipped to detect, and
> some of us are.

Humans have mass spectrometers, dogs don't.

> Maybe all audio gear sounds different,
> but only some can detect it.

If that's true why does this purported ability disappear
when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?

> In which case the argument
> will go on ad infinitum, and Arnie's infernal box will
> never settle it.

What infernal box? Blind tests can and have been done with
no switchboxes at all.

> What Arnie needs to invent is a large
> bionic ear with supersonic hearing, which upon detecting
> distortion or colouration beyond a certain point, will
> immediately fire a large calibre bullet into the casing
> of the unit in question, and a smaller calibre bullet
> into the head of the designer. That would certainly mean
> an exponential improvement in hi-fi generally over a
> short period.

Silly & childish.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "arny krueger" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>> "Robert Morein" > blatantly lied
>>>>>> in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>>>> Mikey, before Arny Krueger assembled his box out of
>>>>>>> second-rate parts, cheapo sound card and undersized
>>>>>>> relays, people were talking about differences they
>>>>>>> hear.
>>>>
>>>>>> Fact of the matter is that I assembled my first ABX
>>>>>> box in the middle 1970s
>>>>>> when there were no sound cards - and not really any
>>>>>> PCs, either.
>>>>
>>>>>> The relays were far from being undersized -they were
>>>>>> if anything oversized.
>>>>
>>>>>> The parts were mostly mil-spec. For example all of
>>>>>> the relays ran off of 28
>>>>>> volts DC, because that was the military standard at
>>>>>> the time.
>>>>
>>>>>>> And that doesn't make all that has gone before
>>>>>>> false. It's as
>>>>>>> true as it ever was, which means, as always, it's a
>>>>>>> mixture. What people
>>>>>>> think and say about audio is a mixture of true,
>>>>>>> false, and imagination. But
>>>>>>> you can't seem to get your head around a concept
>>>>>>> that isn't a simple "fact."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Muddled thinking, anybody?
>>>>
>>>>> Realistic, not simplistic.
>>>>
>>>> It's quite amazing how being caught in three lies in
>>>> quick succession doesn't phase you, Robert. How do you
>>>> sear your conscience so thoroughly?
>>>>
>>> Mikey, pay attention. This is an example of what we're
>>> trying to get you out of.
>>
>> So Morein, what's wrong with publishing a public
>> correction of three of your more recent lies?
>>
> Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better
> human beings to copy.

So Morien, are you saying that Mike should be a shameless
liar like you are?

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message


> But you have a dull
> mind, an average IQ, and can only perform simple tasks.

If irony killed.

[George M. Middius]

****-for-Brains tries to fight Mikey's battle for him.

> > But you have a dull
> > mind, an average IQ, and can only perform simple tasks.

> If irony killed.

Arnii, you should just be glad Dr. Kroomacher engineered you to survive on
feces. If you had to buy people food like we do, you'd have gone broke
ages ago.

[George M. Middius]

Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're mixing your
religious prattle with your political rhetoric and gooping it up with your
Kroologic and antihumanism.

> when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?

This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I can't put a label to
it. What kind of ****ed-up individual believes listening to a stereo with
intact eyeballs is a "crutch"?

You may have turned the final corner, Turdy. Please gather your remaining
family members around you and ask them for comfort in your hour of need.

[George M. Middius]

paul packer said:

> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie. It just happens to be
> wrong, like nearly everything else you've said lately.

Krooger konveniently forgets that we used to squabble like a 'borg and a
human fighting over who gets to have the remote.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 14:00:57 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 07:40:12 -0400, George M. Middius
>>> <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject
>>>> test's without any sicccnecicctfic evidence. That's
>>>> called naiveté. Thanks Mr. Picker for admitting that
>>>> you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)
>>
>>> Nice impersonation, George.
>>
>> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
>
> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.

Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of speech,
Paul.

> It just happens to be wrong, like nearly everything else
> you've
> said lately.

Yeah, sure.

Hey Paul, you get to be the blind fool you are, and I get to
be the smart, with-it guy I am. Seems like reward enough.
;-)

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> Robert Morein wrote
>
>
>
>>>
>> Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better
>> human beings to copy.
>
> So Morien, are you saying that Mike should be a shameless liar like you are?




You are a gutless coward. An obtuse yellow-belly who loves
to run away with his tail tuck neatly between his legs. Yawn ...


Do we have a problem here ?

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message

> Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're
> mixing your religious prattle with your political
> rhetoric and gooping it up with your Kroologic and
> antihumanism.
>
>> when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?
>
> This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I can't
> put a label to it. What kind of ****ed-up individual
> believes listening to a stereo with intact eyeballs is a
> "crutch"?

Middius, what sort of idiot thinks that blind testing
actually involves damage to the eyeballs?

I guess we have the answer before us:

Idiots who apparently think that blind testing involves
damage to the eyeballs:

George Middius
Paul Packer
Art Sackman
Robert Morien
etc.

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message

>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>> Robert Morein wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>>>
>>> Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better
>>> human beings to copy.
>>
>> So Morien, are you saying that Mike should be a
>> shameless liar like you are?

<snip childish name-calling by a pathetic coward who posts
under an untraceable alias>

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message

> ****-for-Brains tries to fight Mikey's battle for him.
>
>>> But you have a dull
>>> mind, an average IQ, and can only perform simple tasks.
>
>> If irony killed.
>
> Arnii,

Who is Arnii, George?

[paul packer]

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:

>>>>> Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject
>>>>> test's without any sicccnecicctfic evidence. That's
>>>>> called naiveté. Thanks Mr. Picker for admitting that
>>>>> you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)
>>>
>>>> Nice impersonation, George.
>>>
>>> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
>>
>> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.
>
>Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of speech,
>Paul.
>
>> It just happens to be wrong, like nearly everything else
>> you've
>> said lately.
>
>Yeah, sure.

Withering come-back. I'm shattered.

>Hey Paul, you get to be the blind fool you are, and I get to
>be the smart, with-it guy I am. Seems like reward enough.
>;-)

Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting you're insane. I'd
take care not to give them any evidence if I were you. :-)

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>>>>>> Because Mr. Pocker its like you think you, can reject
>>>>>> test's without any sicccnecicctfic evidence. That's
>>>>>> called naiveté. Thanks Mr. Picker for admitting that
>>>>>> you're against sicennece. LOt"S! ;-)
>>>>
>>>>> Nice impersonation, George.
>>>>
>>>> Nice suck-up job, Paul.
>>>
>>> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.
>>
>> Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of
>> speech, Paul.
>>
>>> It just happens to be wrong, like nearly everything
>>> else you've
>>> said lately.
>>
>> Yeah, sure.
>
> Withering come-back. I'm shattered.
>
>> Hey Paul, you get to be the blind fool you are, and I
>> get to be the smart, with-it guy I am. Seems like reward
>> enough. ;-)
>
> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting you're
> insane.

Given who they are, I find it to be pretty funny.

> I'd take care not to give them any evidence if I were
> you. :-)

But Paul, you're not me. Intellectually, you're probably
about 70% of me. Morally, you are nowhere.

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>> Robert Morein wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are better
>>>> human beings to copy.
>>>
>>> So Morien, are you saying that Mike should be a
>>> shameless liar like you are?
>
> <snip childish name-calling by a pathetic coward who posts under an
> untraceable alias>




**** you, you lying ****in asshole. Does your ****in asshole pucker
each time McKelvy swivel his tongue there looking for permented
bugs ?



You goddamn cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.


Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the back alleys in
Detroit so you can buy more sound cards.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
> [dot] net> wrote in message
>
>> Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're
>> mixing your religious prattle with your political
>> rhetoric and gooping it up with your Kroologic and
>> antihumanism.
>>
>>> when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?
>>
>> This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I can't
>> put a label to it. What kind of ****ed-up individual
>> believes listening to a stereo with intact eyeballs is a
>> "crutch"?
>
> Middius, what sort of idiot thinks that blind testing actually involves
> damage to the eyeballs?
>
> I guess we have the answer before us:
>
> Idiots who apparently think that blind testing involves damage to the
> eyeballs:
>
> George Middius
> Paul Packer
> Art Sackman
> Robert Morien
> etc.


More debating trade Krooturds!



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[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>
> > On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > > wrote:
>
>
<snipped>
>
> >
> > Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting you're
> > insane.
>
> Given who they are, I find it to be pretty funny.
>
>
Specifically they are the creature posting as "George Middius" (whose
full blown psychosis is evidenced in the Google record) and John
Atkinson (who never seems to notice or comment on the psychotic
behavior of his suck-up-in-chief, "Middius"). Of course, given some of
the nutballs Atkinson "manages" at SP, "Middius" may seem completely
normal!
>
>
Sad.....

[Clyde Slick]

" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>

>
> There exists measurement gear that can "hear" things way beyond our ear's
> capability.
>

Lordy!
That was the ultimate borg statement of all time.

I'll just go watch some tv while I let my
test gear soak up some Beethoven.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>
>> On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 18:12:51 GMT, "
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Many pieces of audio gear sound the same.
>>
>> Is that really true? I mean, if dogs can detect smells we
>> have no hope of detecting, maybe there are sound quality
>> differences some of us are not equipped to detect, and
>> some of us are.
>
> Humans have mass spectrometers, dogs don't.
>

Arny has one implanted in his nose.



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[George M. Middius]

FecesBorg is having a Kroo-dentity krisis.

> > Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're mixing your
> > religious prattle with your political rhetoric and gooping it up with your
> > Kroologic and antihumanism.

> > > > when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?

> > This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I can't put a label to
> > it. What kind of ****ed-up individual believes listening to a stereo with
> > intact eyeballs is a "crutch"?

> > You may have turned the final corner, Turdy. Please gather your remaining
> > family members around you and ask them for comfort in your hour of need.

> Who am I, George?

You are the Big ****. Did you try flushing yourself? I know you might have
difficulty finding a sufficiently capacious toilet, but keep trying.

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>> > wrote:

> <snipped>

>>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting
>>> you're insane.

Thanks Paul for admitting that Atkinson and Middius are not
kind persons.

>> Given who they are, I find it to be pretty funny.

> Specifically they are the creature posting as "George
> Middius" (whose full blown psychosis is evidenced in the
> Google record)

Agreed. Middius is just a sockpuppet. So his psychosis is
virtual. But, a tremendous amount of effort has been put
into the Middius sockpuppet over the years for the purpose
of harassing little ole' me. The energy behind that effort
is hardly the product of a normal personality. Consider how
few of the historical Middius hangers-on are still visible.

>and John Atkinson (who never seems to
> notice or comment on the psychotic behavior of his
> suck-up-in-chief, "Middius").

Agreed. It would be amusing to find out what the real
connection between Middius and Atkinson is. I figure that
Middius is animated by someone with the utmost respect for
Atkinson, someone who has done all of the vile things that
Middius did over the years, basically out of misplaced love
and affection. Consider how much respect Atkinson would get
from these parasites without the money and perceived status
of Stereophile behind him.

> Of course, given some of
> the nutballs Atkinson "manages" at SP, "Middius" may seem
> completely normal!

Atkinson and Fremer clearly live in the past, given the
preeminence they have given to events that are at least a
decade or two old.

I feel sorry for losers like Paul Packer - these are his
heroes!

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message

>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>> EddieM wrote
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>>> Robert Morein wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Mikey, this is how you learned to post. There are
>>>>> better human beings to copy.
>>>>
>>>> So Morien, are you saying that Mike should be a
>>>> shameless liar like you are?
>>
>> <snip childish name-calling by a pathetic coward who
>> posts under an untraceable alias>
>
>
>
>
> **** you, you lying ****in asshole. Does your ****in
> asshole pucker each time McKelvy swivel his tongue there
> looking for permented bugs ?
>
>
>
> You goddamn
> cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.
>
> Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the back
> alleys in Detroit so you can buy more sound cards.

Spoken like a true Normal in the perverted Middius sense.

I'm sure that John Atkinson is happy to have faithful
supporters like you, Eddie.

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>
>>
>>
>> You goddamn
>> cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.
>>
>> Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the back
>> alleys in Detroit so you can buy more sound cards.
>
> Spoken like a true Normal in the perverted Middius sense.
>
>snip


Nobody supports coward like you except McKelvy and thing.
Does McKelvy use a straw to tickle you a bit before sipping
your asshole dry or does your tail get in his way ?

[Jon Yaeger]

in article , Arny Krueger at
wrote on 8/18/05 8:40 AM:

> > wrote in message
> ups.com
>> Arny Krueger wrote:
>>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>>>> > wrote:
>
>> <snipped>
>
>>>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting
>>>> you're insane.
>
> Thanks Paul for admitting that Atkinson and Middius are not
> kind persons.
>
>>> Given who they are, I find it to be pretty funny.
>
>> Specifically they are the creature posting as "George
>> Middius" (whose full blown psychosis is evidenced in the
>> Google record)
>
> Agreed. Middius is just a sockpuppet. So his psychosis is
> virtual. But, a tremendous amount of effort has been put
> into the Middius sockpuppet over the years for the purpose
> of harassing little ole' me. The energy behind that effort
> is hardly the product of a normal personality. Consider how
> few of the historical Middius hangers-on are still visible.
>
>> and John Atkinson (who never seems to
>> notice or comment on the psychotic behavior of his
>> suck-up-in-chief, "Middius").
>
> Agreed. It would be amusing to find out what the real
> connection between Middius and Atkinson is. I figure that
> Middius is animated by someone with the utmost respect for
> Atkinson, someone who has done all of the vile things that
> Middius did over the years, basically out of misplaced love
> and affection. Consider how much respect Atkinson would get
> from these parasites without the money and perceived status
> of Stereophile behind him.
>
>> Of course, given some of
>> the nutballs Atkinson "manages" at SP, "Middius" may seem
>> completely normal!
>
> Atkinson and Fremer clearly live in the past, given the
> preeminence they have given to events that are at least a
> decade or two old.
>
> I feel sorry for losers like Paul Packer - these are his
> heroes!


It amazes me how Arnie, Middius, Atlkinson, Paul, et. al. can write so much
and say absolutely nothing.

Hey guys, please unsubscribe rec.audio.tubes from your drivel list. I'll
wager that no one here cares who is insane, who is a sockpuppet, etc. We
have enough of our own, and we're at least interested in tubes . . . . .
>

[George Middius]

Mickey tries (and fails) to rebut the charge of incurable stupidity.

>> Because he wanted to debate an insane person.

>Greg Singh wasn't available?

Mickey, seriously, do you think this is any cleverer than an IKYABWAI? It's an
IKYABWIH. And Gregipus hasn't posted to RAO for years, which only increases the
lameness factor.

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message

>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>> EddieM wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You goddamn
>>> cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.
>>>
>>> Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the
>>> back alleys in Detroit so you can buy more sound cards.
>>
>> Spoken like a true Normal in the perverted Middius sense.
>>
>> snip

> Nobody supports coward like you except McKelvy and thing.

Eddie, prove that Middius and his supporters aren't all
cowardly sockpuppets, fearful of making traceable posts
under legal names.

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message

> FecesBorg is having a Kroo-dentity krisis.
>
>>> Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're
>>> mixing your religious prattle with your political
>>> rhetoric and gooping it up with your Kroologic and
>>> antihumanism.
>
>>>>> when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?
>
>>> This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I
>>> can't put a label to it. What kind of ****ed-up
>>> individual believes listening to a stereo with intact
>>> eyeballs is a "crutch"?
>
>>> You may have turned the final corner, Turdy. Please
>>> gather your remaining family members around you and ask
>>> them for comfort in your hour of need.

>>> Arnii,

>>Who is Arnii, George?

<delete forged post and response>

[paul packer]

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 09:02:58 -0400, Jon Yaeger >
wrote:


>It amazes me how Arnie, Middius, Atlkinson, Paul, et. al. can write so much
>and say absolutely nothing.

But we're having fun, Jon!

>Hey guys, please unsubscribe rec.audio.tubes from your drivel list. I'll
>wager that no one here cares who is insane, who is a sockpuppet, etc. We
>have enough of our own, and we're at least interested in tubes . . . . .

That's a virtue?

[paul packer]

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:55:06 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:

>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting you're
>> insane.
>
>Given who they are, I find it to be pretty funny.
>
>> I'd take care not to give them any evidence if I were
>> you. :-)
>
>But Paul, you're not me. Intellectually, you're probably
>about 70% of me. Morally, you are nowhere.

I told you not to give them any evidence!

[Patrick Turner]

Jon Yaeger wrote:

> in article , Arny Krueger at
> wrote on 8/18/05 8:40 AM:
>
> > > wrote in message
> > ups.com
> >> Arny Krueger wrote:
> >>> "paul packer" > wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 07:34:28 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> >>>> > wrote:
> >
> >> <snipped>
> >
> >>>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting
> >>>> you're insane.
> >
> > Thanks Paul for admitting that Atkinson and Middius are not
> > kind persons.
> >
> >>> Given who they are, I find it to be pretty funny.
> >
> >> Specifically they are the creature posting as "George
> >> Middius" (whose full blown psychosis is evidenced in the
> >> Google record)
> >
> > Agreed. Middius is just a sockpuppet. So his psychosis is
> > virtual. But, a tremendous amount of effort has been put
> > into the Middius sockpuppet over the years for the purpose
> > of harassing little ole' me. The energy behind that effort
> > is hardly the product of a normal personality. Consider how
> > few of the historical Middius hangers-on are still visible.
> >
> >> and John Atkinson (who never seems to
> >> notice or comment on the psychotic behavior of his
> >> suck-up-in-chief, "Middius").
> >
> > Agreed. It would be amusing to find out what the real
> > connection between Middius and Atkinson is. I figure that
> > Middius is animated by someone with the utmost respect for
> > Atkinson, someone who has done all of the vile things that
> > Middius did over the years, basically out of misplaced love
> > and affection. Consider how much respect Atkinson would get
> > from these parasites without the money and perceived status
> > of Stereophile behind him.
> >
> >> Of course, given some of
> >> the nutballs Atkinson "manages" at SP, "Middius" may seem
> >> completely normal!
> >
> > Atkinson and Fremer clearly live in the past, given the
> > preeminence they have given to events that are at least a
> > decade or two old.
> >
> > I feel sorry for losers like Paul Packer - these are his
> > heroes!
>
> It amazes me how Arnie, Middius, Atlkinson, Paul, et. al. can write so much
> and say absolutely nothing.
>
> Hey guys, please unsubscribe rec.audio.tubes from your drivel list. I'll
> wager that no one here cares who is insane, who is a sockpuppet, etc. We
> have enough of our own, and we're at least interested in tubes . . . . .

I have to agree with you Jon.

Why the **** do these nutters have to include rec.audio.tubes in their
address list for their crap?

Patrick Turner.

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>> EddieM wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> You goddamn
>>>> cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.
>>>>
>>>> Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the
>>>> back alleys in Detroit so you can buy more sound cards.
>>>
>>> Spoken like a true Normal in the perverted Middius sense.
>>>
>>> snip
>
>> Nobody supports coward like you except McKelvy and thing.
>
> Eddie, prove that Middius and his supporters aren't all cowardly
> sockpuppets, fearful of making traceable posts under legal names.



What are the specific objections you have with the indisputable,
crystal-clear fact that you are a feeble-minded coward ?

[paul packer]

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:40:42 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> wrote:

>I feel sorry for losers like Paul Packer - these are his
>heroes!


And where do you see me worshipping at the Middius altar? Just because
George and I are not currently at each other's throats, as was common
in the past, this does not imply blood brotherhood. As for John
Atkinson, from what I see from his posts I'd say he's at least a
gentleman, shows respect for other posters and tries to stick to the
rules of logic, though he often comes across as Alice in Wonderland
trying to make sense of the nonsensical. As I don't read Stereophile I
have no comment on his publishing ethics or veracity.

Please define "loser" for me, Arny, since you choose to label me as
such.

[George Middius]

****tyborg counts his small blessings.

>> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.

>Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of speech,

You should be grateful, Turdy. Once we get you committed, you won't even have
that anymore.

[Arny Krueger]

"George Middius" > wrote in
message
> Mickey tries (and fails) to rebut the charge of incurable
> stupidity.

>>> Because he wanted to debate an insane person.

>> Greg Singh wasn't available?

> Mickey, seriously, do you think this is any cleverer than
> an IKYABWAI?

It's intensely funny. George, your only problem with it is
that its your ox that got gored this time.

> It's an IKYABWIH.

Compare it to your typical Art Sackman post - how lame are
those? Art doesn't seem to have enough active synapses to
make a case for active consciousness, let along active
insanity.

> And Gregipus hasn't posted to RAO for years, which only
> increases the lameness factor.

George, given that the two of you used to be Resistance
Central, that only makes it funnier.

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message

>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>> EddieM wrote
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>>> EddieM wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> You goddamn
>>>>> cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the
>>>>> back alleys in Detroit so you can buy more sound
>>>>> cards.
>>>>
>>>> Spoken like a true Normal in the perverted Middius
>>>> sense. snip
>>
>>> Nobody supports coward like you except McKelvy and
>>> thing.
>>
>> Eddie, prove that Middius and his supporters aren't all
>> cowardly sockpuppets, fearful of making traceable posts
>> under legal names.
>
>
>
> What are the specific objections you have with the
> indisputable, crystal-clear fact that you are a
> feeble-minded coward ?

For openers Eddie, your complete and total lack of
qualifications to make such a judgment.

[Arny Krueger]

"paul packer" > wrote in message

> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:40:42 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
> > wrote:
>
>> I feel sorry for losers like Paul Packer - these are his
>> heroes!
>
>
> And where do you see me worshipping at the Middius altar?

Your recent mimicry of a typical Middius posting style, Paul

[George Middius]

paul packer said:

>>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting you're insane.
>>> I'd take care not to give them any evidence if I were you. :-)

>>But Paul, you're not me. Intellectually, you're probably
>>about 70% of me.

>I told you not to give them any evidence!

Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the one he once made
involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. **** *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr.
Zelniker's knowledge of digital audio. Dr. Z then showed up Mr. ****'s empty
boasting by giving him a little quiz similar to the job interview he does at his
company. Turdy ran away and hid, unable to answer even a single question. Dr. Z
said that for him to hire a junior engineer to work at his company, the
applicant would have to do pretty well on that kind of quiz. Zero is not a
pretty good score. <G>

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>
>>
>> What are the specific objections you have with the
>> indisputable, crystal-clear fact that you are a
>> feeble-minded coward ?
>
> For openers Eddie, your complete and total lack of qualifications to make
> such a judgment.


How would you then judge a boneless, fluttering asshole like
you that constantly assert himself but then run away with his tail
neatly and safely tuck in between ?

[Arny Krueger]

"George Middius" > wrote in
message

>>> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.

>> Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of
>> speech,

> You should be grateful, Turdy.

> Once we get you committed, you won't even have that
> anymore.

Ever had someone comitted, George?

To do it, you need a court order. I can see it now, a
sockpuppet trying to get a court order. LOL!

George, you're nuts!

[Arny Krueger]

"George Middius" > wrote in
message
> paul packer said:
>
>>>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting
>>>> you're insane. I'd take care not to give them any
>>>> evidence if I were you. :-)
>
>>> But Paul, you're not me. Intellectually, you're probably
>>> about 70% of me.
>
>> I told you not to give them any evidence!
>
> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the
> one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. ****
> *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr. Zelniker's
> knowledge of digital audio.

This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
claim.

> Dr. Z then showed up Mr.
> ****'s empty boasting by giving him a little quiz similar
> to the job interview he does at his company.

Yeah, its like the man has so many high-level technical
employees that he gives formal technical quizes during job
interviews.

Yet another made-up Middius story. It's as least as credible
as his ongoing lie that I live on a disability from GM (or
anybody else as far as that goes!).

> Turdy ran away and hid, unable to answer even a single
> question.

Check the Google record - no actual bona-fide questions were
ever tendered.

In fact Dr. Z was having daily "brain hemhorrages" on RAO,
liberally embellished with profanity.

Here is an example:

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/d54238316ba088bb


"How's this? **** YOU, you loathsome, psychotic, subhuman
imbecile! You
deserve every ounce of vitriole and hatred directed your
way.

"I know you only care about TRVTH, but you fail to see that
the court of
public opinion is what really matters on r.a.o. And you
ain't the
purveyor of TRVTH. Let's forget about the fact that you're
a filthy
liar for a minute. You're also a hack "scientist" and you
have a
Popular Electronics-level understanding of audio. You know
just enough
lingo to get yourself into trouble but you're too stupid and
stubborn to
recognize and/or admit that it happens to you all the time.
Enjoy your
soundcards, quit playing En-jun-ear, and leave the real work
and serious
thinking to the big boys, you stupid tool.

So how foolish would it be for me to subject myself to an
examnation by someone as full of hatred and confusion as
this?

> Dr. Z said that for him to hire a junior engineer to work
> at his company, the applicant would have to do pretty
> well on that kind of quiz. Zero is not a pretty good
> score. <G>

In fact Dr. Z likely as not, has zero full-time high-level
technical employees. More than likely he farms just about
everything out, and the work that he doesn't farm out is
done by part-timers, most of whom never spend appreciable
time on his premeses. If he ever hires any full-time
technical employees, he no doubt finds them through personal
contacts, so their credentials are settled before any
serious hiring goes on.

In short, this is yet another Middius tall tale.

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message

>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>> EddieM wrote
>>>
>>>
>>> What are the specific objections you have with the
>>> indisputable, crystal-clear fact that you are a
>>> feeble-minded coward ?
>>
>> For openers Eddie, your complete and total lack of
>> qualifications to make such a judgment.
>
>
> How would you then judge a boneless, fluttering asshole
> like you that constantly assert himself but then run away
> with
> his tail neatly and safely tuck in between ?

Oh, this is about you. I think you're simple-minded and
pathetic, Eddie.

[John Atkinson]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > George Middius wrote:
> > Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
> > Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?
> >
> Arny, he felt you were worth destroying. But when he had you
> in his sights, Atkinson's tender mercies let you live.

:-)

But destroying Arny Krueger was not my aim, please note.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" > wrote
in message
oups.com
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> George Middius wrote:
>>> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
>>> Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?
>>>
>> Arny, he felt you were worth destroying. But when he had
>> you in his sights, Atkinson's tender mercies let you
>> live.
>
> :-)
>
> But destroying Arny Krueger was not my aim, please note.

John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you did
a pretty good job on yourself because of your arrogance
(lack of preparation) and lack of introspection (your
discussion points were old and lame). You weren't destroyed
but your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
in many people's eyes. I don't even ask about it, people
just walk up and tell me these things.

[Jon Yaeger]

"PLONK"!






in article , Arny Krueger at
wrote on 8/18/05 11:26 AM:

> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
>> Robert Morein wrote:
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> George Middius wrote:
>>>> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
>>>> Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?
>>>>
>>> Arny, he felt you were worth destroying. But when he had
>>> you in his sights, Atkinson's tender mercies let you
>>> live.
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> But destroying Arny Krueger was not my aim, please note.
>
> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you did
> a pretty good job on yourself because of your arrogance
> (lack of preparation) and lack of introspection (your
> discussion points were old and lame). You weren't destroyed
> but your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
> in many people's eyes. I don't even ask about it, people
> just walk up and tell me these things.
>
>

[Jon Yaeger]

"PLONK"!!



in article . com, John
Atkinson at wrote on 8/18/05 11:17 AM:

>
> Robert Morein wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> George Middius wrote:
>>> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
>>> Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?
>>>
>> Arny, he felt you were worth destroying. But when he had you
>> in his sights, Atkinson's tender mercies let you live.
>
> :-)
>
> But destroying Arny Krueger was not my aim, please note.
>
> John Atkinson
> Editor, Stereophile
>

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>> EddieM wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> What are the specific objections you have with the
>>>> indisputable, crystal-clear fact that you are a
>>>> feeble-minded coward ?
>>>
>>> For openers Eddie, your complete and total lack of
>>> qualifications to make such a judgment.
>>
>>
>> How would you then judge a boneless, fluttering asshole
>> like you that constantly assert himself but then run away with
>> his tail neatly and safely tuck in between ?
>
> Oh, this is about you. I think you're simple-minded and pathetic, Eddie.


No, this is about you -- a meathead with yellow-belly who constantly
assert himself but then run away with his tail neatly and safely in-tuck.


You want me to prove this to you ?

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "George Middius" > wrote in
> message
> > Mickey tries (and fails) to rebut the charge of incurable
> > stupidity.
>
Arny, I suggest you distance yourself from Mikey. If you were rich and
famous, you could afford a "poster child". But as it is, the message is,
"pied piper for [insert politically correct term for Mikey's disability]"

Isn't it about time we come up with a picture of Mikey the poster child,
cradled by Arny, about to shove his fingers into a light socket?

[sam]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote
>
> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you did a pretty good
> job on yourself because of your arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack
> of introspection (your discussion points were old and lame). You weren't
> destroyed but your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably in
> many people's eyes. I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and
> tell me these things.


Whereas you walked into the debate already destroyed and
with only upside potential. As expected, you confirmed that
you're an arrogant jerk and nerd lacking in social skills.

John's a nice guy and runs a business that caters to people
that you and Malesweski don't understand. They don't like
you and don't want your unsolicited opinions. You're beating
your head against a wall. Keep it up.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message


> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...

>> "George Middius" > wrote in
>> message

>>> Mickey tries (and fails) to rebut the charge of
>>> incurable stupidity.
>>
> Arny, I suggest you distance yourself from Mikey.

Remind me again of why I would take advice from you Robert,
given all of the hate and spite you've directed my way, even
in just the recent past.

In contrast, what Mike said about Greg Singh was pretty
funny. It brings to mind how proud Greg was to be accepted
by Middius and the Resistance, and how George stupidly
****ed all that adulation away.

[Arny Krueger]

"sam" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote
>>
>> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you
>> did a pretty good job on yourself because of your
>> arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack of
>> introspection (your discussion points were old and
>> lame). You weren't destroyed but your dissembling since
>> then has lowered you considerably in many people's eyes.
>> I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and tell
>> me these things.
>
>
> Whereas you walked into the debate already destroyed and
> with only upside potential. As expected, you confirmed
> that you're an arrogant jerk and nerd lacking in social
> skills.

Is devotion to childish insults a contagious disease? How
do you Resistance guys pass the contagion around?

> John's a nice guy and runs a business that caters to
> people that you and Malesweski don't understand.

If John's such a nice guy and has such a great business why
does he spend so much time whipping up deceptions? Why can't
he give straight answers to simple questions? If the
present is so neat, why does he live in the past? If the
business is so great, why is the circulation slipping?

> They don't like you and don't want your unsolicited
> opinions.

Who is this They?

> You're beating your head against a wall.

Admittedly, if the wall wasn't unh *shedding* bricks, it
would be less fun. ;-)

> Keep it up.

With lame defenders like you, Atkinson needs few enemies.

[sam]

" > wrote...
>
> "sam" > wrote ...

>> " > wrote
>>>
>>>> I'm getting tired of this discussion, Mike. Haven't we been all the
>>>> way
>>>> around it?

>>> Only because you don't seem to want to acknowledge you have a claim with
>>> no evidence.
>>
>> What claim is that? The one you agree with?

> The one that there might be some unknown that affects human enjoyment of
> audio.

Yep - that's the one you agreed with. Thank you.

[Arny Krueger]

"EddieM" > wrote in message

>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>> EddieM wrote
>>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>>> EddieM wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> What are the specific objections you have with the
>>>>> indisputable, crystal-clear fact that you are a
>>>>> feeble-minded coward ?
>>>>
>>>> For openers Eddie, your complete and total lack of
>>>> qualifications to make such a judgment.
>>>
>>>
>>> How would you then judge a boneless, fluttering asshole
>>> like you that constantly assert himself but then run
>>> away with his tail neatly and safely tuck in between ?
>>
>> Oh, this is about you. I think you're simple-minded and
>> pathetic, Eddie.

> No, this is about you -- a meathead with yellow-belly who
> constantly assert himself but then run away with his tail
> neatly and safely in-tuck.

> You want me to prove this to you ?

Be my guest, Eddie.

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
> > Robert Morein wrote:
> >> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> George Middius wrote:
> >>> Middius if you're so clever and interesting, why didn't
> >>> Atkinson debate you at the HE2005 show?
> >>>
> >> Arny, he felt you were worth destroying. But when he had
> >> you in his sights, Atkinson's tender mercies let you
> >> live.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > But destroying Arny Krueger was not my aim, please note.
>
> John, destroying you was not my aim, either.

As was apparent, I believe, from the recording of the debate,
Mr. Krueger. :-)

> I think you did a pretty good job on yourself because of your
> arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack of introspection
> (your discussion points were old and lame).

A small but possibly important point, Mr. Krueger, is to note
that as one of the participants in the debate, your opinions
on the other participant can hardly be claimed to be
disinterested, surely? Or do you feel that you can effectively
behave as both defendant and judge?

> You weren't destroyed...

Phew, that's a relief! :-)

> but your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
> in many people's eyes. I don't even ask about it, people
> just walk up and tell me these things.

That's terrible, Mr. Kreuger. Don't you have a lock on your door?

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[Robert Morein]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
> [dot] net> wrote in message
>
> > Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're
> > mixing your religious prattle with your political
> > rhetoric and gooping it up with your Kroologic and
> > antihumanism.
> >
> >> when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?
> >
> > This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I can't
> > put a label to it. What kind of ****ed-up individual
> > believes listening to a stereo with intact eyeballs is a
> > "crutch"?
>
> Middius, what sort of idiot thinks that blind testing
> actually involves damage to the eyeballs?
>
> I guess we have the answer before us:
>
> Idiots who apparently think that blind testing involves
> damage to the eyeballs:
>
> George Middius
> Paul Packer
> Art Sackman
> Robert Morien
> etc.
>
I do not belong on this list. I like blind testing. I also think a lot of
people imagine things. I also think a lot of people don't. Some people are
swayed by extraneous factors, and some people are not. The proportion of
people who imagine differences increases as the actual difference decreases.

Unfortunately, you are yourself extremely insensitive to differences that
many other people perceive easily and obviously. This is one of the sources
of your fanatical belief in your own self-correctness. As Dr. Richman would
say, you are the prisoner of an "idee fixe".

But there must be something deeply wrong with your personality. You have
said "people who want to destroy me." You're the guy who constantly uses
"Thanks for admitting", and other words, to invent what other people say and
believe. You're the guy who put me on that little list in this post. That's
why you're a liar.

Even that would be tolerable, even amusing, but you constantly try to strip
away the social credibility of other people.

[George Middius]

This Kroo-lie was remarkably easy to bust.

>> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the
>> one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. ****
>> *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr. Zelniker's
>> knowledge of digital audio.

>This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
>claim.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/75e2b00608b249e6?hl=en&

Have fun spinning, Mr. ****! ;-)

[Arny Krueger]

"George Middius" > wrote in
message
> This Kroo-lie was remarkably easy to bust.
>
>>> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the
>>> one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. ****
>>> *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr. Zelniker's
>>> knowledge of digital audio.
>
>> This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
>> claim.
>
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/75e2b00608b249e6?hl=en&

"I agree with that totally. But *most* understates things.
Poor
knowledge and misapprehensions about digital audio seem to
be very
widespread. I'm easily at the 90% level and Glenn is some
9's above
me."

The key here is the statement "...Glenn is some 9's above
me".

IOW, I was speaking of percentiles not percents.

Still over your head Middius, or do I need to explain it to
you further?

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at]
>> comcast [dot] net> wrote in message
>>
>>> Arnii, you have become so totally ****ed up that you're
>>> mixing your religious prattle with your political
>>> rhetoric and gooping it up with your Kroologic and
>>> antihumanism.
>>>
>>>> when the tests are not done with sight as a crutch?
>>>
>>> This is so ****ed up on so many levels that even I can't
>>> put a label to it. What kind of ****ed-up individual
>>> believes listening to a stereo with intact eyeballs is a
>>> "crutch"?
>>
>> Middius, what sort of idiot thinks that blind testing
>> actually involves damage to the eyeballs?
>>
>> I guess we have the answer before us:
>>
>> Idiots who apparently think that blind testing involves
>> damage to the eyeballs:
>>
>> George Middius
>> Paul Packer
>> Art Sackman
>> Robert Morien
>> etc.
>>
> I do not belong on this list. I like blind testing.

Mere lip service.

> I also think a lot of people imagine things. I also think
> a
> lot of people don't. Some people are swayed by extraneous
> factors, and some people are not. The proportion of
> people who imagine differences increases as the actual
> difference decreases.

Given all the imaginary crap you've posted here, Morien...

> Unfortunately, you are yourself extremely insensitive to
> differences that many other people perceive easily and
> obviously.

Unfortunately Morein, you have delusions of omniscience. You
don't actually know how sensitive or insensitive I am. How
would you know what our comparative listening sensitivity is
in any factual reliable way? No, you're posturing.

<snip self-serving pop psychology and personal attacks>

[Robert Morein]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> ****tyborg counts his small blessings.
>
> >> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.
>
> >Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of speech,
>
> You should be grateful, Turdy. Once we get you committed, you won't even
have
> that anymore.
>
Arny, you should try to see a movie called "Titicut Follies".
It'll give you advice on what to bring and what to wear.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

> "George Middius" > wrote in
> message ...
>>
>>
>> ****tyborg counts his small blessings.
>>
>>>> That interpretation is your prerogative, Arnie.

>>> Thanks for granting me the privilege of freedom of
>>> speech,

>> You should be grateful, Turdy. Once we get you
>> committed, you won't even have that anymore.

> Arny, you should try to see a movie called "Titicut
> Follies". It'll give you advice on what to bring and what
> to wear.

Yet another bozo who is clueless about the real world and
learned everything he knows about life by watching movies.

[George Middius]

An admission of error from the Krooborg. Sound the klaxons! Break out the
confetti and let's have a parade!

>> This Kroo-lie was remarkably easy to bust.

>>>> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the
>>>> one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. ****
>>>> *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr. Zelniker's
>>>> knowledge of digital audio.

>>> This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
>>> claim.

"I'm easily at the 90% level and Glenn is some 9's above me."

>The key here is the statement "...Glenn is some 9's above
>me".

Spin, Turdborg, spin.

>IOW, I was speaking of percentiles not percents.

Thanks Mr. Krooborg for admitting you lied about your earlier statement.

(In case you or Little **** is having trouble following, it's a question of
arithmetic. 90% of 100 is 90, but 90% of any number less than 100 is more than
90.)

[Arny Krueger]

"George Middius" > wrote in
message
> An admission of error from the Krooborg. Sound the
> klaxons! Break out the confetti and let's have a parade!
>
>>> This Kroo-lie was remarkably easy to bust.
>
>>>>> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to
>>>>> the one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr.
>>>>> **** *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr.
>>>>> Zelniker's knowledge of digital audio.
>
>>>> This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
>>>> claim.
>
> "I'm easily at the 90% level and Glenn is some 9's above
> me."
>
>> The key here is the statement "...Glenn is some 9's above
>> me".

>> IOW, I was speaking of percentiles not percents.

> Thanks Mr. Krooborg for admitting you lied about your
> earlier statement.

Who is Krooborg?

What earlier statement?

[George Middius]

Mickey, I need you to tell us that Arnii sounds really really stupid, OK?

>> An admission of error from the Krooborg. Sound the
>> klaxons! Break out the confetti and let's have a parade!

>>>> This Kroo-lie was remarkably easy to bust.

>>>>>> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to
>>>>>> the one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr.
>>>>>> **** *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr.
>>>>>> Zelniker's knowledge of digital audio.

Take note of this klaim by Arnii Krooliar:

>>>>> This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
>>>>> claim.

Did you get that? Krooger klaimed my assertion was not factual.

Now here is the proof that my assertion was accurate:

>> "I'm easily at the 90% level and Glenn is some 9's above me."

Krooger said that a few years back. That was the original Kroo-klaim I cited.

Now here's Mr. **** admitting he made the Kroo-klaim:

>>> The key here is the statement "...Glenn is some 9's above me".

No dispute as to whether he said it.

Next I acknowledge Mr. ****'s unaccustomed bout with truthfulness:

>> Thanks Mr. Krooborg for admitting you lied about your
>> earlier statement.

And here's your pal Arnii falling down and not being able to get up:

>What earlier statement?

Will you help Arnii out, Mickey? Please don't leave him lying there. ;-)

[EddieM]

> Arny Krueger wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>> EddieM wrote
>>>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>>>> EddieM wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> What are the specific objections you have with the
>>>>>> indisputable, crystal-clear fact that you are a
>>>>>> feeble-minded coward ?
>>>>>
>>>>> For openers Eddie, your complete and total lack of
>>>>> qualifications to make such a judgment.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> How would you then judge a boneless, fluttering asshole
>>>> like you that constantly assert himself but then run
>>>> away with his tail neatly and safely tuck in between ?
>>>
>>> Oh, this is about you. I think you're simple-minded and
>>> pathetic, Eddie.
>
>> No, this is about you -- a meathead with yellow-belly who
>> constantly assert himself but then run away with his tail
>> neatly and safely in-tuck.
>
>> You want me to prove this to you ?
>
> Be my guest, Eddie.



I been listening again to the Debate tapes .......

[George M. Middius]

The Krooborg dares to be stupid.

> > Once we get you committed, you won't even have that
> > anymore.

> Ever had someone comitted, George?

Me? No.

> To do it, you need a court order. I can see it now, a
> sockpuppet trying to get a court order. LOL!

Silly Krooborg, it won't be my doing when they cart you away. It has to be
a family member or a mental health professional. However, as you know, the
wheels are already turning. I received a call from Michigan Social
Services because whoever started this affair gave me as an expert (!)
witness. I don't have any expertise, but I did offer support for the idea
of having you confined. I'm sure you know all about this, so don't play
ignorant.

[George M. Middius]

Jon Yaeger said:

> "PLONK"!

It's not so easy to escape the stench of Kroofulness. It seeps everywhere,
like the miasma of an untended sewer.

[John Atkinson]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
> in many people's eyes.

PS. One small point, Mr. Krueger, but an important one: I
haven't done any dissembling. What I have done is contradict
you when you are wrong, put forward different, valid
explanations for observed phenomena and events, and argue
with you when I feel you are getting something wrong. I
have also defended myself against your criticisms, and
clearly pointed out to everyone but apparently Mike McKelvy,
when you have uttered an untruth, such as when you accused me
of attacking your children.

None of this is dissembling. None of of this is "telling lies."

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

[[email protected]]

John Atkinson wrote:
> Arny Krueger wrote:
> > your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
> > in many people's eyes.
>
> PS. One small point, Mr. Krueger, but an important one: I
> haven't done any dissembling.
>
>
Hah! And Don Corleone was in the olive oil biz....

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "EddieM" > wrote in message
>
>>> Arny Krueger wrote
>>>> EddieM wrote
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You goddamn
>>>> cowwwwwarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrdddddddddd dd.
>>>>
>>>> Yet, not too coward to whore his lawful wife in the
>>>> back alleys in Detroit so you can buy more sound cards.
>>>
>>> Spoken like a true Normal in the perverted Middius sense.
>>>
>>> snip
>
>> Nobody supports coward like you except McKelvy and thing.
>
> Eddie, prove that Middius and his supporters aren't all cowardly
> sockpuppets, fearful of making traceable posts under legal names.
>

Arny, prove that you are not insane.



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[dizzy]

On 18 Aug 2005 11:54:35 -0700, George Middius
> wrote:

>An admission of error from the Krooborg. Sound the klaxons! Break out the
>confetti and let's have a parade!
>
>>> This Kroo-lie was remarkably easy to bust.
>
>>>>> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the
>>>>> one he once made involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. ****
>>>>> *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr. Zelniker's
>>>>> knowledge of digital audio.
>
>>>> This looks to be about as factual as any other Middius
>>>> claim.
>
>"I'm easily at the 90% level and Glenn is some 9's above me."
>
>>The key here is the statement "...Glenn is some 9's above
>>me".
>
>Spin, Turdborg, spin.

No need. He explained it, and it's totally plausible - "some 9's" is
MORE THAN ONE 9.

You lost, again, Middius.

[dizzy]

On 18 Aug 2005 07:38:56 -0700, George Middius
> wrote:

>Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the one he once made
>involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. **** *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of Dr.
>Zelniker's knowledge of digital audio.

Liar. I saw you're "evidence" regarding this. You're a liar.

[Arny Krueger]

"John Atkinson" > wrote
in message
oups.com
> Arny Krueger wrote:

>> your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
>> in many people's eyes.

> PS. One small point, Mr. Krueger, but an important one: I
> haven't done any dissembling. What I have done is
> contradict you when you are wrong, put forward different,
> valid explanations for observed phenomena and events, and
> argue with you when I feel you are getting something
> wrong.

Well John, you are making your apologies to the wrong guy.

I didn't just say that you were dissembling, what I said is
that dissembling is what those other folks called what they
found you doing in your recent Stereophile ragazine article.
FWIW I haven't read it.

[Arny Krueger]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net> wrote in message

> The Krooborg dares to be stupid.
>
>>> Once we get you committed, you won't even have that
>>> anymore.
>
>> Ever had someone comitted, George?
>
> Me? No.
>
>> To do it, you need a court order. I can see it now, a
>> sockpuppet trying to get a court order. LOL!
>
> Silly Krooborg,

Who is Krooborg, Middius - one of your imaginary playmates?

> it won't be my doing when they cart you
> away. It has to be a family member or a mental health
> professional. However, as you know, the wheels are
> already turning. I received a call from Michigan Social
> Services because whoever started this affair gave me as
> an expert (!) witness. I don't have any expertise, but I
> did offer support for the idea of having you confined.
> I'm sure you know all about this, so don't play ignorant.

Actually, ignorant isn't what you're playing Middius,
ignorant is what you are for real.

The State of Michigan does not have an organization called
Michigan Social Services.

Furthermore, its not the Michigan Department of Human
Services that commits people, its the Probate Court.

It appears Middius that you're not even an expert liar!

LOL!

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "paul packer" > wrote in message
>
>> On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 08:40:42 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> I feel sorry for losers like Paul Packer - these are his
>>> heroes!
>>
>>
>> And where do you see me worshipping at the Middius altar?
>
> Your recent mimicry of a typical Middius posting style, Paul
>

Prove it!

(Oh, how I love and adore you Arny.)

If irony killed.

(You are my hero.)



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[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "John Atkinson" > wrote
> in message
> oups.com
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> >> your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably
> >> in many people's eyes.
>
> > PS. One small point, Mr. Krueger, but an important one: I
> > haven't done any dissembling. What I have done is
> > contradict you when you are wrong, put forward different,
> > valid explanations for observed phenomena and events, and
> > argue with you when I feel you are getting something
> > wrong.
>
> Well John, you are making your apologies to the wrong guy.
>
> I didn't just say that you were dissembling, what I said is
> that dissembling is what those other folks called what they
> found you doing in your recent Stereophile ragazine article.
> FWIW I haven't read it.
>
>
By all means read it, Arny. It's a real hoot. As Ricky Ricardo might
have said: "There's a whole lotta 'ssemblin goin on". ;-)

[Clyde Slick]

"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> paul packer said:
>
>>>> Now, Arnie, some unkind people here are suggesting you're insane.
>>>> I'd take care not to give them any evidence if I were you. :-)
>
>>>But Paul, you're not me. Intellectually, you're probably
>>>about 70% of me.
>
>>I told you not to give them any evidence!
>
> Not to worry, this Kroo-klaim pales in comparison to the one he once made
> involving Glenn Zelniker. Mr. **** *seriously* klaimed that he has 90% of
> Dr.
> Zelniker's knowledge of digital audio. Dr. Z then showed up Mr. ****'s
> empty
> boasting by giving him a little quiz similar to the job interview he does
> at his
> company. Turdy ran away and hid, unable to answer even a single question.
> Dr. Z
> said that for him to hire a junior engineer to work at his company, the
> applicant would have to do pretty well on that kind of quiz. Zero is not a
> pretty good score. <G>
>

Mr. Z doesn't design ashtrays. Too bad.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...

>
> To do it, you need a court order. I can see it now, a sockpuppet trying to
> get a court order. LOL!
>

That's what you'll be yelling while your being tied into your strait jacket.



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[George M. Middius]

dizzy dickie said:

> >Spin, Turdborg, spin.

> No need.

Your dedication to Turdy is something special, Thing. Most AOLers just
gave up on Usenet once they couldn't access it from the mothership. But
you overcame the hardship of learning to use the Internet like an adult
because you are so hugely dedicated to the Krooborg.

I hope you realize he's never once addressed you by your real name.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you did a pretty good
> job on yourself because of your arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack
> of introspection (your discussion points were old and lame). You weren't
> destroyed but your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably in
> many people's eyes. I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and
> tell me these things.
>

Yes, I understand. Strangers walk
up to you in the supermarket and tell you this.
Like 90% of Grosse Pointe Woods
attended the debate or heard the recording.



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[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you
>> did a pretty good job on yourself because of your
>> arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack of
>> introspection (your discussion points were old and
>> lame). You weren't destroyed but your dissembling since
>> then has lowered you considerably in many people's eyes.
>> I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and tell
>> me these things.
>
> Yes, I understand. Strangers walk
> up to you in the supermarket and tell you this.

More like people walk up to me at AES or SMWTMS meetings and
say stuff like this. Of course Art you'd never know what its
like to be at either meeting.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>> To do it, you need a court order. I can see it now, a
>> sockpuppet trying to get a court order. LOL!
>>
>
> That's what you'll be yelling while your being tied into
> your strait jacket.

Like I said, all you know about real life Art is what you
see in movies.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
>
> Actually, ignorant isn't what you're playing Middius, ignorant is what you
> are for real.
>
> The State of Michigan does not have an organization called Michigan Social
> Services.
>
> Furthermore, its not the Michigan Department of Human Services that
> commits people, its the Probate Court.
>
> It appears Middius that you're not even an expert liar!
>

Looks like Krueger has been there, done that.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you
>>> did a pretty good job on yourself because of your
>>> arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack of
>>> introspection (your discussion points were old and
>>> lame). You weren't destroyed but your dissembling since
>>> then has lowered you considerably in many people's eyes.
>>> I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and tell
>>> me these things.
>>
>> Yes, I understand. Strangers walk
>> up to you in the supermarket and tell you this.
>
> More like people walk up to me at AES or SMWTMS meetings and say stuff
> like this. Of course Art you'd never know what its like to be at either
> meeting.

Not true. I went to the dentist just last week.



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[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> To do it, you need a court order. I can see it now, a
>>> sockpuppet trying to get a court order. LOL!
>>>
>>
>> That's what you'll be yelling while your being tied into
>> your strait jacket.
>
> Like I said, all you know about real life Art is what you see in movies.
>

Didn't Bruce Willis play you in "Blowhard"?



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[[email protected]]

Clyde Slick wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you did a pretty good
> > job on yourself because of your arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack
> > of introspection (your discussion points were old and lame). You weren't
> > destroyed but your dissembling since then has lowered you considerably in
> > many people's eyes. I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and
> > tell me these things.
> >
>
> Yes, I understand. Strangers walk
> up to you in the supermarket and tell you this.
>
>
And strange female toilet attendants walk up to you to get a gander at
your tiny lil' putz while you pee at CDG airport.
>
>
> Like 90% of Grosse Pointe Woods
> attended the debate or heard the recording.
>
>
Just like 90% of France conspires to overcharge you for water.

[Arny Krueger]

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Actually, ignorant isn't what you're playing Middius,
>> ignorant is what you are for real.
>>
>> The State of Michigan does not have an organization
>> called Michigan Social Services.
>>
>> Furthermore, its not the Michigan Department of Human
>> Services that commits people, its the Probate Court.
>>
>> It appears Middius that you're not even an expert liar!
>>
>
> Looks like Krueger has been there, done that.

Thanks Art for admitting that for a second you actually
perceived that Middius was lying out the back of his neck.

[Clyde Slick]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> Actually, ignorant isn't what you're playing Middius,
>>> ignorant is what you are for real.
>>>
>>> The State of Michigan does not have an organization
>>> called Michigan Social Services.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, its not the Michigan Department of Human
>>> Services that commits people, its the Probate Court.
>>>
>>> It appears Middius that you're not even an expert liar!
>>>
>>
>> Looks like Krueger has been there, done that.
>
> Thanks Art for admitting that for a second you actually perceived that
> Middius was lying out the back of his neck.

I'll leave that to the ekthpert lunatic
who has been committed nymerous times.



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[[email protected]]

Arny Krueger wrote:
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
> > "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> Actually, ignorant isn't what you're playing Middius,
> >> ignorant is what you are for real.
> >>
> >> The State of Michigan does not have an organization
> >> called Michigan Social Services.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, its not the Michigan Department of Human
> >> Services that commits people, its the Probate Court.
> >>
> >> It appears Middius that you're not even an expert liar!
> >>
> >
> > Looks like Krueger has been there, done that.
>
> Thanks Art for admitting that for a second you actually
> perceived that Middius was lying out the back of his neck.
>
>
"Neck"? That's an interesting term for that part of the anatomy. ;-)
And, of course, Sackman is known to spend alot of time in that "neck"
of the woods.

[dizzy]

On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:33:02 -0400, George M. Middius <cmndr
[underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote:

>dizzy dickie said:
>
>> >Spin, Turdborg, spin.
>
>> No need.
>
>Your dedication to Turdy is something special, Thing.

What alleged "dedication", Jerk? And who is "Turdy"?

>Most AOLers just
>gave up on Usenet once they couldn't access it from the mothership.

How is the above conjecture relevant to the present discussion? Are
you a doddering old fool, or what?

>But you overcame the hardship of learning to use the Internet like an adult

The fact that you consider "learning to use the Internet" to be a
"hardship" speak volumes about your mental capacity.

>because you are so hugely dedicated to the Krooborg.

Blatant lie. No surprise there.

>I hope you realize he's never once addressed you by your real name.

What's your real name, "Middius"?

[dizzy]

On 18 Aug 2005 18:00:11 -0700, wrote:

>> Thanks Art for admitting that for a second you actually
>> perceived that Middius was lying out the back of his neck.
>>
>>
>"Neck"? That's an interesting term for that part of the anatomy. ;-)
>And, of course, Sackman is known to spend alot of time in that "neck"
>of the woods.

Is it true that "Middius" is a homo?

[[email protected]]

dizzy wrote:
> On 18 Aug 2005 18:00:11 -0700, wrote:
>
> >> Thanks Art for admitting that for a second you actually
> >> perceived that Middius was lying out the back of his neck.
> >>
> >>
> >"Neck"? That's an interesting term for that part of the anatomy. ;-)
> >And, of course, Sackman is known to spend alot of time in that "neck"
> >of the woods.
>
> Is it true that "Middius" is a homo?
>
>
According to "Middius", yes. However, I care not at all if the
"Middius" creature likes it up the butt. I do care that it is a
psychotic asshole.

[George M. Middius]

Clyde Slick said:

> > It appears Middius that you're not even an expert liar!

> Looks like Krueger has been there, done that.

When they're carting him away, Krooger will be yelling "You can't take me
because Middius isn't an expert liar!"

[George M. Middius]

dizzy dickie said:

> Is it true that "Middius" is a homo?

It sure is, dickie. And may I say that you give new meaning to the term
"troll".

[George M. Middius]

Thing screeched:

> >Your dedication to Turdy is something special, Thing.

> What alleged "dedication", Jerk?
> Are you a doddering old fool, or what?
> What's your real name, "Middius"?

Rage on, dickie. You've been outed. No, you can't suck my dick.

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> dizzy dickie said:
>
>> Is it true that "Middius" is a homo?
>
> It sure is, dickie.

You sure George. I mean in your situation... wouldn't asexual be a better
tag?

ScottW

[Jon Yaeger]

in article , Clyde Slick at
wrote on 8/18/05 8:50 PM:

>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> John, destroying you was not my aim, either. I think you
>>>> did a pretty good job on yourself because of your
>>>> arrogance (lack of preparation) and lack of
>>>> introspection (your discussion points were old and
>>>> lame). You weren't destroyed but your dissembling since
>>>> then has lowered you considerably in many people's eyes.
>>>> I don't even ask about it, people just walk up and tell
>>>> me these things.
>>>
>>> Yes, I understand. Strangers walk
>>> up to you in the supermarket and tell you this.
>>
>> More like people walk up to me at AES or SMWTMS meetings and say stuff
>> like this. Of course Art you'd never know what its like to be at either
>> meeting.
>
> Not true. I went to the dentist just last week.
>
>
>
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> News==----
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You just earned yourself a special place in my kill-filter.

[George M. Middius]

Scottie, are you still mad at me? I was just yanking your chain before.

> > It sure is, dickie.

> You sure George.

Did you mean to say, "Yeah, sure, George"?

> I mean in your situation... wouldn't asexual be a better tag?

What an odd comment. Does this have something to do with your teenage son?
I'd recommend having a frank talk with him so he'll know you're supporting
him no matter where his life goes. Assuming you'll support him no matter
what, that is. One can't take anything for granted with a Terrierborg.