Titanium Dome Damping?

[Garrt]

hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.

also I've got polystyrene stuck in the ports to damp those too. it
helps! can anyone recommend a different material for this.

TIA for any help.

[Robert Morein]

"Garrt" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
> like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
> got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.
>
> also I've got polystyrene stuck in the ports to damp those too. it
> helps! can anyone recommend a different material for this.
>
> TIA for any help.
>
I know of nothing a user can do to damp a titanium dome.
What you describe is why I don't listen to them.
It is really impossible to modify an existing speaker design and come up
with something as good as the original, as bad as that may be :)
I suggest you replace the speakers.
Aluminum and silk sound better, even if they test worse :)

[ScottW]

I've heard of people using a non-acoustical transparent covering in
front of the tweeter. In effect a muffle if you will. Keep layering
until you get something tolerable.

I don't think you want to try to apply something directly to the dome.
It would be a one shot attempt... negative results would not be easily
reversed.

ScottW

[Robert Morein]

"François Yves Le Gal" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:24:52 -0400, "Robert Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >Aluminum and silk sound better, even if they test worse :)
>
> The Truth actually use aluminum diaphragms.
>
You've gone over my head. "The Truth" ?

[ScottW]

Robert Morein wrote:
> "Fran=E7ois Yves Le Gal" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 16:24:52 -0400, "Robert Morein" =
m>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Aluminum and silk sound better, even if they test worse :)
> >
> > The Truth actually use aluminum diaphragms.
> >
> You've gone over my head. "The Truth" ?

Model of the OPs speakers.... Truth.

ScottW

[Garrt]

>I've heard of people using a non-acoustical transparent covering in
>front of the tweeter.

cling film? or something more exotic?

[ScottW]

"Garrt" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> >I've heard of people using a non-acoustical transparent covering in
>>front of the tweeter.
>
> cling film? or something more exotic?


No... I think it was something as simple as tissue paper or cotton cloth.

The tweeter appears to be recessed so you easily drape various layers of
cloth over the tweeter until you muffle the edgy sound. Obviously
the high frequencies are gonna be impacted more. It might not even give
you a solution you like but it is easy to try and is easily reversible.
But after (or even if) you find a cover material that gives you a tolerable
sound.
you can then go about figuring an aesthetically acceptable implementation.

Again... I'm not saying put anything in direct contact with the dome.

On another option... have you tried using tone controls?
or an equalizer?

ScottW

[Trevor Wilson]

"Garrt" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
> like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
> got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.

**Why did you buy the damned things, if they sound like crap?
Do you marry a woman before ****ing her?
Do you buy an automobile before driving it?
What the Hell is wrong with people today?

It is very simple: DON'T BUY A PRODUCT, UNTIL YOU'VE HEARD IT, IN YOUR
LISTENING ROOM.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Robert Morein]

"François Yves Le Gal" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 22:22:51 -0400, "Robert Morein" >
> wrote:
>
> >You've gone over my head. "The Truth" ?
>
> Yeah, near field monitors from Behringer are part of their "Truth" series.
>
>
The "Truth" is hard to take :)
"Garrt" can't handle the "Truth", and I probably couldn't either.

[Robert Morein]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:BVNGe.5857$Tr6.4256@lakeread02...
>
> "Garrt" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > >I've heard of people using a non-acoustical transparent covering in
> >>front of the tweeter.
> >
> > cling film? or something more exotic?
>
>
> No... I think it was something as simple as tissue paper or cotton cloth.
>
> The tweeter appears to be recessed so you easily drape various layers of
> cloth over the tweeter until you muffle the edgy sound.

It's caused by the "oil can" resonance, an affliction of titanium tweeters
that seems more offensive to many people than the distortion in soft domes
caused by non-pistonic movement.

I think your suggestion is constructive, but muffling will take a lot of
things away besides the resonance.

[ScottW]

"Trevor Wilson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Garrt" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
>> like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
>> got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.
>
> **Why did you buy the damned things, if they sound like crap?
> Do you marry a woman before ****ing her?
> Do you buy an automobile before driving it?
> What the Hell is wrong with people today?

Dang... Trevor got lit tonight :)

>
> It is very simple: DON'T BUY A PRODUCT, UNTIL YOU'VE HEARD IT, IN YOUR
> LISTENING ROOM.

Let's see .... of the components in my system I had the realistic
opportunity of trialing
in my listening room before buying.... exactly ..... none.

Of course the bulk of my system is used and I don't go to a retail shop and
get
trials and then go buy used. That just seems sleazy to me.

I did have return option on my Quads.... but thats it.

So...nice rule... albeit an expensive one to adhere too.

ScottW

[Trevor Wilson]

"ScottW" > wrote in message
news:i4_Ge.6060$Tr6.5861@lakeread02...
>
> "Trevor Wilson" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Garrt" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
>>> like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
>>> got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.
>>
>> **Why did you buy the damned things, if they sound like crap?
>> Do you marry a woman before ****ing her?
>> Do you buy an automobile before driving it?
>> What the Hell is wrong with people today?
>
> Dang... Trevor got lit tonight :)

**It is so difficult protecting people from their own stupidity. Did this
guy listen to these speakers and say: "Hey, I like the sound of these
speakers, but I can live with the ear-bleeding HF response." Or was even
more stupid and purchased them, based on what some reviewer said? Do tell me
he purcahsed them based on what was written on the manufacturer's
site????!!! That would be one of the dumbest ways of choosing a product
possible. I REALLY want to know what this guy's buying decision was based
on.

>
>>
>> It is very simple: DON'T BUY A PRODUCT, UNTIL YOU'VE HEARD IT, IN YOUR
>> LISTENING ROOM.
>
> Let's see .... of the components in my system I had the realistic
> opportunity of trialing
> in my listening room before buying.... exactly ..... none.
>
> Of course the bulk of my system is used and I don't go to a retail shop
> and get
> trials and then go buy used. That just seems sleazy to me.

**THAT would be sleazy. And it has been done to me. Many times. However, I
still loan equipment to prospective customers, because it is, quite simoly,
the ONLY sane way to buy equipment. No other method makes any kind of sense.
Would you marry a woman to find out what she's like in the sack?

>
> I did have return option on my Quads.... but thats it.

**And that was, by far, the most important component to judge in the room.
As you no doubt found out. Quads can take days to precisely position in a
room. In some rooms they'll never work right.

>
> So...nice rule... albeit an expensive one to adhere too.

**Nope. It is (as our OP can attest) a very expensive rule to ignore.
However, I should have concentrated on the speakers only. They should ALWAYS
be tested in the intended room. Always, always, always.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Garrt]

Trevor Wilson somewhat rudely wrote:

>> Do you marry a woman before ****ing her?

yes, and I've never seen her since she got her passport! and she gave
me VD.


> >> Do you buy an automobile before driving it?

no, I just steal them - keep an eye on yours.


> **It is so difficult protecting people from their own stupidity.

and you'd have personal experience of this.

> Did this guy listen to these speakers and say: "Hey, I like the sound of =
these
> speakers, but I can live with the ear-bleeding HF response."

no I listened to them (twice) in the shop room - I thought they sounded
OK, but not as good as the =A330000 pair they were sat next to.


> Or was even more stupid and purchased them, based on what some reviewer s=
aid? Do tell me
> he purcahsed them based on what was written on the manufacturer's
> site????!!! That would be one of the dumbest ways of choosing a product
> possible.

more personal experience I guess!!!

> I REALLY want to know what this guy's buying decision was based on.

reviews, listening and PRICE!


> Would you marry a woman to find out what she's like in the sack?>

you're obsessed with this analogy - I wonder why?


> **Nope. It is (as our OP can attest) a very expensive rule to ignore.
> However, I should have concentrated on the speakers only. They should ALW=
AYS
> be tested in the intended room. Always, always, always.

next time! not many places are this willing when you're only spending
=A3300
which is about the same amount YOU spend on prostitutes each week now
that your wife has left you - for being **** in bed!
bye.

[ScottW]

"Trevor Wilson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "ScottW" > wrote in message
> news:i4_Ge.6060$Tr6.5861@lakeread02...
>>
>> "Trevor Wilson" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Garrt" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
>>>> like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
>>>> got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.
>>>
>>> **Why did you buy the damned things, if they sound like crap?
>>> Do you marry a woman before ****ing her?
>>> Do you buy an automobile before driving it?
>>> What the Hell is wrong with people today?
>>
>> Dang... Trevor got lit tonight :)
>
> **It is so difficult protecting people from their own stupidity.

I thought that was a "borg" function :).

> Did this guy listen to these speakers and say: "Hey, I like the sound of
> these speakers, but I can live with the ear-bleeding HF response." Or was
> even more stupid and purchased them, based on what some reviewer said? Do
> tell me he purcahsed them based on what was written on the manufacturer's
> site????!!! That would be one of the dumbest ways of choosing a product
> possible. I REALLY want to know what this guy's buying decision was based
> on.
>
>>
>>>
>>> It is very simple: DON'T BUY A PRODUCT, UNTIL YOU'VE HEARD IT, IN YOUR
>>> LISTENING ROOM.
>>
>> Let's see .... of the components in my system I had the realistic
>> opportunity of trialing
>> in my listening room before buying.... exactly ..... none.
>>
>> Of course the bulk of my system is used and I don't go to a retail shop
>> and get
>> trials and then go buy used. That just seems sleazy to me.
>
> **THAT would be sleazy. And it has been done to me. Many times. However, I
> still loan equipment to prospective customers, because it is, quite
> simoly, the ONLY sane way to buy equipment. No other method makes any kind
> of sense.

Unfortunately I am not aware of any shops in my area that have such a
policy.

So I buy used and take my chances... at least I get a couple of extra
chances
for the money :).

> Would you marry a woman to find out what she's like in the sack?

You could let another guy do her and then write her up in a review :).
But make sure he covers both the sober and intoxicated states.

>
>>
>> I did have return option on my Quads.... but thats it.
>
> **And that was, by far, the most important component to judge in the room.
> As you no doubt found out. Quads can take days to precisely position in a
> room. In some rooms they'll never work right.

I think if you can start with 5' or more from the rear and side walls
you'll have plenty
of flexibility to find the spot. I'm still tinkering with rear diffusers
and toe angles and
I just might make new stands 4" taller some day.

>
>>
>> So...nice rule... albeit an expensive one to adhere too.
>
> **Nope. It is (as our OP can attest) a very expensive rule to ignore.

Those are pretty inexpensive speakers. I wouldn't sweat that cost on a
flyer.

ScottW

[George M. Middius]

NumbnutsBorg chattered:

> > **It is so difficult protecting people from their own stupidity.
>
> I thought that was a "borg" function :).

I think his point was that it's stupid even to try. Oh, never mind -- same
thing.

> > **THAT would be sleazy. And it has been done to me. Many times. However, I
> > still loan equipment to prospective customers, because it is, quite
> > simoly, the ONLY sane way to buy equipment. No other method makes any kind
> > of sense.

> Unfortunately I am not aware of any shops in my area that have such a
> policy.

Of course you don't. Nobody in their right mind would lend something to a
stroke like you who's always yammering about how everything in the shop is
too expensive.

> But make sure he covers both the sober and intoxicated states.

Let's go back to your parenting skills for a moment.....

[ScottW]

"George M. Middius" <cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net> wrote
in message ...
>
>
> NumbnutsBorg chattered:
>
>> > **It is so difficult protecting people from their own stupidity.
>>
>> I thought that was a "borg" function :).
>
> I think his point was that it's stupid even to try. Oh, never mind -- same
> thing.
>
>> > **THAT would be sleazy. And it has been done to me. Many times.
>> > However, I
>> > still loan equipment to prospective customers, because it is, quite
>> > simoly, the ONLY sane way to buy equipment. No other method makes any
>> > kind
>> > of sense.
>
>> Unfortunately I am not aware of any shops in my area that have such a
>> policy.
>
> Of course you don't. Nobody in their right mind would lend something to a
> stroke like you who's always yammering about how everything in the shop is
> too expensive.

Once again George has stooped to lying in a feable attempt to score a
point.

I'd point out that your self esteem has taken another hit but at this point
I
can't believe it even exists.

>
>> But make sure he covers both the sober and intoxicated states.
>
> Let's go back to your parenting skills for a moment.....

Let's go back to your skills... any skills...you must have some skills...
..... ok.... you must be good at breathing... or at least adequate...
or.....hmmmm... Are you in an iron lung?

ScottW

[Trevor Wilson]

"Garrt" > wrote in message
oups.com...
Trevor Wilson somewhat rudely wrote:

>> Do you marry a woman before ****ing her?

yes, and I've never seen her since she got her passport! and she gave
me VD.


**They're called 'STDs' now.


> >> Do you buy an automobile before driving it?

no, I just steal them - keep an eye on yours.


**No need. Mine is fitted with exceptionally good anti-theft systems.


> **It is so difficult protecting people from their own stupidity.

and you'd have personal experience of this.


**Indeed.


> Did this guy listen to these speakers and say: "Hey, I like the sound of
> these
> speakers, but I can live with the ear-bleeding HF response."

no I listened to them (twice) in the shop room - I thought they sounded
OK, but not as good as the £30000 pair they were sat next to.

**How long did you listen for? Did you use music you were familiar with? Why
did you not test them against other, similarly priced speakers?



> Or was even more stupid and purchased them, based on what some reviewer
> said? Do tell me
> he purcahsed them based on what was written on the manufacturer's
> site????!!! That would be one of the dumbest ways of choosing a product
> possible.

more personal experience I guess!!!

**Indeed. I see it daily. People place their faith in reviewers, of suspect
morals and abilities, living ahlfway across the planet, rather than
listening for themselves. It is a fatal mistake. As you have now found.


> I REALLY want to know what this guy's buying decision was based on.

reviews, listening and PRICE!


**Reviews - Waste of time.
PRICE - You did not compare with similarly priced speakers.
Listening - how much listening did you do? Enough to determine that the HF
response was crap, before you took them home?


> Would you marry a woman to find out what she's like in the sack?>

you're obsessed with this analogy - I wonder why?

**Because it is entirely valid. As is my automobile one.



> **Nope. It is (as our OP can attest) a very expensive rule to ignore.
> However, I should have concentrated on the speakers only. They should
> ALWAYS
> be tested in the intended room. Always, always, always.

next time! not many places are this willing when you're only spending
£300

**Then you should do (a lot) more comparisons, before taking them home. 300
Squid (should) buy you a nice pair of speakers, IMO.

which is about the same amount YOU spend on prostitutes each week now
that your wife has left you - for being **** in bed!

**I am embarrassed to admit that I have never spent money on a prostitute.
I've never known that particular joy.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Garrt]

> **How long did you listen for? Did you use music you were familiar with? Why
> did you not test them against other, similarly priced speakers?

c'mon Trev - of course I listened against other's of similar price.
tannoy reveal and well, that's all there was. funny, I thought those
were a little dull! OK so I make a misake but I didn't post here for
someone like you to tell me that! anyway, it's fun winding you up!!

> **Indeed. I see it daily. People place their faith in reviewers, of suspect
> morals and abilities, living ahlfway across the planet, rather than
> istening for themselves. It is a fatal mistake. As you have now found.

the only reviews I trust generally are SoundOnSound. but this time
they got it wrong.

> Listening - how much listening did you do? Enough to determine that the HF
> response was crap, before you took them home?

obviously not - you're quite good at stating the obvious Trev.

**Then you should do (a lot) more comparisons, before taking them home.
300
Squid (should) buy you a nice pair of speakers, IMO.

OK enough - I'm all out of joy for cheap bi-amped monitors for now -
I'm considering going back to passives. all I wanted originally was
Event 20/20 passoves - but my amp failed that day - so I got these
FAQers - I don't think high street music shops are the best place for
good speakers!!! just like HMV is full of **** music!

[Trevor Wilson]

"Signal" > wrote in message
...
> "Trevor Wilson" emitted :
>
>>**Then you should do (a lot) more comparisons, before taking them home.
>>300
>>Squid (should) buy you a nice pair of speakers, IMO.
>>
>>which is about the same amount YOU spend on prostitutes each week now
>>that your wife has left you - for being **** in bed!
>>
>>**I am embarrassed to admit that I have never spent money on a prostitute.
>>I've never known that particular joy.
>
> You can buy a decent pair of speakers for less than the cost of an
> evening with an upmarket call girl.

**So I've heard.

>
> Prostitutes OTOH, ten a penny...

**I've never quite understood the attraction for screwing a woman who has no
interest in the sex, but is interested in my money. I'd rather wait for one
who actually WANTS to tear my pants off (not that it happens much nowadays).
In those dry periods (pretty rare, since the age of 20), there are other
ways of gratifying oneself.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Margaret von B.]

"Garrt" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> hello, i own a pair of Behringer Truth monitors. the treble sounds
> like 2 people having a sword fight 3 inches from my ear drum. anyone
> got any tips on damping the titanium dome tweeter.
>
> also I've got polystyrene stuck in the ports to damp those too. it
> helps! can anyone recommend a different material for this.
>
> TIA for any help.
>

Unfortunately those are Behringer's shoddy attempt to reverse-engireer a
Genelec, call it their own and sell it at a fraction of the price. Behringer
is known for that. Interestingly enough the outcome was so bad that Genelec
hasn't even reacted to the obvious piracy attempt. Just avoid anything by
Behringer in the future. Sorry but there is no cure AFAIK.

Cheers,

Margaret

[Garrt]

> Just avoid anything by Behringer in the future. Sorry but there is no cure
> AFAIK.

will do, I'll add them to my growing list of crappy brands to avoid -
I'll file them alongside Microsoft - similar level of competence!

[Margaret von B.]

"François Yves Le Gal" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 03:29:05 GMT, "Margaret von B."
> > wrote:
>
>>Unfortunately those are Behringer's shoddy attempt to reverse-engireer a
>>Genelec
>
> Bull****.
>
>

Buy some soap and learn to use it.

Margaret

[GeoSynch]

Magie in high dudgeon:

>>>Unfortunately those are Behringer's shoddy attempt to reverse-engireer a
>>>Genelec

>> Bull****.

> Buy some soap and learn to use it.

If irony could only lather...

GeoSynch

[Trevor Wilson]

"Garrt" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>> **How long did you listen for? Did you use music you were familiar with?
>> Why
>> did you not test them against other, similarly priced speakers?
>
> c'mon Trev - of course I listened against other's of similar price.

**I don't know that. You only mentioned 30,000.00 Squid speakers. Nothing
else. What am I supposed to think?

> tannoy reveal and well, that's all there was. funny, I thought those
> were a little dull!

**BINGO! When listening to a system, be VERY warey of anything which 'jumps
out at you'. It could be an indicator os a serious problem.

<ANECDOTE> Many years ago, I built a pair of magnificent Bailey Transmission
Line speakers. I used Radford crossovers (instead of the horrible KEF
units). I kept them for many years. One night a mate called in for a beer
and a chat. After listening for about 5 minutes, he said: "Oh, they don't
have much bass (!!!???) and the mids aren't very clear and there's not much
HF." (My mate owned a big pair of Infinity RS4.5 speakers) After about 2
hours, he turned around and said to me: "gee, you can REALLY live with these
speakers. They're very non-fatiguing."

OK so I make a misake but I didn't post here for
> someone like you to tell me that! anyway, it's fun winding you up!!

**I'll ask the questions you avoided, once more:

* How long did you listen for?
* Did you use music you were familiar with?

>
>> **Indeed. I see it daily. People place their faith in reviewers, of
>> suspect
>> morals and abilities, living ahlfway across the planet, rather than
>> istening for themselves. It is a fatal mistake. As you have now found.
>
> the only reviews I trust generally are SoundOnSound. but this time
> they got it wrong.

**Here's some words you need to hear: Never trust ANY reviewers. Never ever.
You have no idea of their motivations, or personal opionions. Hell, you
don't even know what their listening abilities are. ONLY trust your own
ears, or ojective reviews (ie: specifications).

>
>> Listening - how much listening did you do? Enough to determine that the
>> HF
>> response was crap, before you took them home?
>
> obviously not - you're quite good at stating the obvious Trev.

**Ya gotta learn the horrible truth sometime.

>
> **Then you should do (a lot) more comparisons, before taking them home.
> 300
> Squid (should) buy you a nice pair of speakers, IMO.
>
> OK enough - I'm all out of joy for cheap bi-amped monitors for now -
> I'm considering going back to passives. all I wanted originally was
> Event 20/20 passoves - but my amp failed that day - so I got these
> FAQers - I don't think high street music shops are the best place for
> good speakers!!! just like HMV is full of **** music!

**Just as you should never go to the supermarket whilst you are hungry, you
should no go looking for audio equipment, when you are desperate to replace
a buggered item.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Michael Conzo]

"Margaret von B." > wrote:

> Unfortunately those are Behringer's shoddy attempt to reverse-engireer a
> Genelec, call it their own and sell it at a fraction of the price. Behringer
> is known for that.

Very true in my experience. Beheringer's total engineering time (chinese,
of course) spends all their time tearing apart pro audio boxes to clone.
And they do it with the protection of the chinese gov't.

[Garrt]

>**I'll ask the questions you avoided, once more:
> * How long did you listen for?
> * Did you use music you were familiar with?

2 sessions - the first session was their crappy selection. the second
session was mine - very familiar music but all the same type. over an
hour in total. next time I'll take the piano sonatas as well as the
techno/jungle! maybe I'll make a test recording that jumps all over
the frequency spectrum.

[Trevor Wilson]

"Signal" > wrote in message
...
> "Trevor Wilson" emitted :
>
>
>>..there are other ways of gratifying oneself.
>
> Examples?

**Oh, I don't think I need to go there.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

[Garrt]

> I don't see any form of copy. Behringer has presented effect pedals.
> Roland/Boss as well as dozens of other companies sell similar effect pedals.
>
> Behringer is now a sizeable player and will defend vigorously.

there's a massive difference between copying someone/something and
being inspired by someone/something. I'll leave it to you to decide
which category Behringer fall into.