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EddieM
July 20th 05, 03:20 PM
<ring ring ring>

Susan: Hello?

Roy: Hello, is Arnold there please.

Susan: Can I ask who’s calling?

Roy: Yes, it’s a friend in England.

Susan: I’m sorry, I didn’t catch your name.

Roy: Sorry, it’s Roy. In England.

Susan: Can you hold for just a moment.

Roy: Certainly. Can you tell him it’s important, please?

[pause]

Arnold: Hello?

Roy: Hello, Arnold?

Arnold: Yes?

Roy: Yes, it’s Roy, in England.

Arnold: Who am I speaking to?

Roy: It’s Roy, in England.

Arnold: Ray England?

Roy: Roy. England.

Arnold: Roy England.

Roy: Yes. You know, THE Roy. Devil Roy.

Arnold: Oh, Roy Briggs.

Roy: Yes.

Arnold: Is England your real name?

Roy: <laughs> I live in England.

Arnold: Well. OK.

Roy: <laughs> You get that much? … Look, RAO is getting ridiculous, I think,
isn’t it?

Arnold: What?

Roy: RAO is getting ridiculous.

Arnold: Well, I suspect there’s been too much technical content for the likes
of you.

Roy: I don’t want to argue with you, Arny. I was hoping to perhaps … uh… come
up with a truce or something. I …

Arnold: It’s real simple. Stop your insults, stop your lies, stop your
harassment, and things will be better.

Roy: Is that it?

Arnold: Well, let’s put it this way. Once upon a time, somebody named Middius
decided that they were going to scorch the earth in RAO because they didn’t
like the way the place was. It seems to be working.

[pause]

Roy: I don’t agree it’s that simple though, Arny.

Arnold: I don’t think you know the history of the situation. You weren’t
there.

Roy: I think … I think there’s wrongdoing on all sides, and I’m going to stop
calling it as I see it, because I’ve been quite—

Arnold: [louder] You call it you see it? [agitated]

Roy: uh-huh.

Arnold: That would be a hoot. [pause] Am I supposed to deduce from that that
everything you’ve said until now is a lie?

Roy: Some people have forged into friendship perhaps because of their dislike
of other people, namely you. I’ll be blunt with you—

Arnold: Oh, don’t spare me anything. Of course there’s lots of people who find
solace in each other’s arms because I’ve basically shown what idiots they are.
Publicly. They stuck their nose out. I banged it. That’s what I do. You know
why I do it?

Roy: Why?

Arnold: It goes all the back to scorched earth. Somebody else set the rules
for the game; I’ve simply been playing by them for about two years.

Roy: Is that what you really think?

Arnold: It’s not a matter of what I think. If I were to put forth the effort,
I could show you the quotes from dejanews where it all went down.

[pause]

Roy: [sighs]

Arnold: You know, ignorance is a powerful thing, and I think you’ve got a
monumental dose of it. This whole thing started almost three years ago. Where
the hell were you?

Roy: I wasn’t around then.

Arnold: Well, that’s your fault. People who don’t know history are condemned
to repeat it. Somebody made that up, right? And that’s about what’s been
happening. I mean… this is a, this is a gigantic hoot. Something happened
about three years ago. A course was set. All kinds of people came in and said,
I’ve got a grand idea. I’m going to fix this. [laughs] I can give you the list
of names of people who thought they were going to do it. The consequence of
all of the above are, the place gets worse and worse. However, every once in a
while, we have a break for it, and we actually get some content. Right now, in
the last week or so, we’ve actually had some content. But … you know … how
long will that last?

Roy: Can I ask you an honest question then, Arny?

Arnold: Sure. I’ve always given you honest answers unless I put a smiley after
them.

Roy: Well, you put a smiley after pretty much everything, so … [laughs]

Arnold: [angry] Bull****. Bull****. BULL-****! That’s a lie.

Roy: Sorry?

Arnold: BULL-****! You know, you are such an ass. You are such a powerful ass.
You see everything through a microscopic little hole. No history, no
background, no understanding of how things come, and suddenly you think you’re
going to be Mr. Fixit. This is a hoot.

Roy: I … I can’t say I things quite that way.

Arnold: Of course you don’t see things that way. My goodness!

Roy: Well, Arnold, I’m trying to make amends with you here.

Arnold: Well, I’m telling you that making amends with me is painfully simple.
I’ve told you how to make amends with me many times.

Roy: Yeh, but this is a very one-sided thing. I’m asking—

Arnold: Sure it’s a one-sided thing. You screw with my wife, you screw with my
family, you screw with my life. You do everything you can to embarrass and
humiliate me. You dedicate a Web site to me…

Roy: I though you liked—

Arnold: … and on and on and on.

Roy: I though you liked—

Arnold: Very one-sided.

Roy: I though you liked—

Arnold: He throws the blvts….

Roy: I though you liked the Web site.

Arnold: Ah… I liked it at one point in time. Obviously, all this… all this Web
site is is you working out your frustrations. Good for you. I’m glad for you.
It’s not doing anybody else any good.

Roy: A lot of people go to that Web site now. They think it’s funny.

Arnold: Well, I think you gave the answer to that coming in the door. You said
people form friendships because of their mutual dislike for somebody else. So,
you’ve collected a lot of people who dislike certain people.

Roy: Namely you.

Arnold: Well, not — ha! That Web site is probably less than 10% me at this
particular point in time.

Roy: Well…

Arnold: And I’m not complaining, I’m just observing. What happens is, Roy
Briggs’ **** list gets longer and longer and longer. But one of these days you’re
going to real—you’re going to figure it out. Hate doesn’t work.

Roy: I don’t hate you, Arny.

Arnold: Well, uh…. Let’s put it this way: You do … you do a darn fine job of
making a fictional representation of it if that’s really the case.

Roy: I’m trying to… um, I mean, for any kind of thing to work—

Arnold: Well, it’s real simple.

Roy: Um, okay, you’re laying down conditions for me. You’re laying down the
law.

Arnold: I’m not … It’s not … It’s not… It’s not a rule. It’s an observation.

Roy: OK. Well, can you hear my observation, and perhaps we can, perhaps we can
start—

Arnold: Well, your observations are so biased, they’re irrelevant to reality.

Roy: So are yours. I mean, yours are biased from your point of view, mine are
biased from my point of view—

Arnold: NO! My views have a historical basis that you’re ignorant of. And you
sit here, you know, like I say, this is… this is a hoot. You weren’t there
when this all went down. You don’t know a thing about it. And you say, “Ah! I’m
going to …. I’m going to fix everything.” And all you’ve managed to do is
repeat history and maybe make things a little bit worse.

Roy: Oh. Well, that isn’t … that isn’t my intention, and—

Arnold: Well, but that’s what you’ve accomplished, Roy. And the thing about it
is, anybody who looked at your methodologies … I mean, have you ever
negotiated anything in your life?

Roy: Oh, yes.

Arnold: Is this how you negotiate with people?

Roy: Of course not.

Arnold: Well then, why don’t you look at what you know about how to negotiate
with people, and apply it?

Roy: This is what I’m trying to do now. I’m trying—

Arnold: Well, I think that, uh, the first thing that you do, if you want to
negotiate with somebody, you should quit dumping garbage on their lawn.

Roy: Well, the first thing you when you’re trying to negotiate with something
is you have a two-way dialog with them, and you—

Arnold: No, the first thing you do with anybody who’s reasonable, is you quit
dumping garbage on their lawn. As long as you’re dumping garbage on their
lawn, as soon as they see you on their property, they’re going to kick your
ass. Right?

Roy: Sure.

Arnold: Well, I’m glad to see you’ve got the brains of a three-year-old. Now
let’s work on a six-year-old. And stop dumping the ****ing garbage. You
understand me?

[pause]

Roy: I think so.

Arnold: Well? I mean, it’s very simple, Roy. If you want RAO to be a place
where people have a dialog, you know, about audio, and their love for music,
you quit dumping garbage on the—on the place. It’s painfully simple. I can’t
imagine this has eluded you for more than a millisecond. I mean, I think you’ve
figured out by now that dumping garbage doesn’t work. That’s why you called
me. And I’m here to tell you: You’re right, Roy. Dumping garbage doesn’t
work.[pause] This whole thing occurred because somebody decided they’re going
to dump garbage.

Roy: But isn’t, um… isn’t religion uh, I mean, isn’t Christianity a lot about
forgiveness? I mean, I consider myself a forgiving person. I do forgive people
for what they’ve done. These things happened a long time ago—

Arnold: Well, let’s put it this way. There’s all kinds of people in this world
that go around and say, “Forgive me.” And in the final analysis, what
everybody learns is that there’s, it’s very easy … you know… you can forgive a
person in an abstract sense. And sure, great. But the point is, is the person
comes around and does the same thing the next day, they’re stroking you, man.
It was a lie. And, uh, my particular situation is, is that, um, you know, if
somebody is halfway decent with me for any amount of time, I’ll be halfway
decent with them. And in your particular case, I’ve tried to be very helpful
to you in the face of a steady stream of insults. And, uh, you know, you, uh,
unilaterally decide to go back on the warpath. Well, that’s a choice you get
to make. I mean, you talk about forgiveness. How much forgiveness does it take
for me to actually give you some help on a project you’re working on while you’re
trying to embarrass and humiliate me every way you can. Now you know that’s
happened. And you say, well, Christianity is about forgiveness. OK, the olive
branch was extended, the olive branch was beaten, olive branch was urinated
on, **** was rubbed on it. There are more olive branches, but my God man, you
know… [snorts]

Roy: mmm.

Arnold: What do you want? I think you, the best you could hope for is a
reasonable treatment. And a reasonable treatment means that if you do that to
somebody, you know, what can I say?

Roy: Do you actually, um…. Do you not accept any responsibility for what’s
happened on RAO?

Arnold: I believe I’m on the record as saying I accept responsibility for a
certain portion of what’s happened on RAO, and anybody who says otherwise has
got just a rotten historical perspective and no knowledge of things that I’ve
said.

Roy: You did lie about me though, Arny. You said that I had rung you up and
given abuse to your daughter, and I never even spoke to her.

Arnold: You did. You didn’t know it. You thought it was my wife.

Roy: But I didn’t give her abuse. I didn’t… I didn’t say anything to her. All
I asked for was you.

Arnold: Well, let’s put it this way. The abuse… She perceived abuse, since she
was very upset. Did I ask her what happened? No. Was she upset? Yes. Did she
have a very low level of respect for you based on her conversation with you?
Yes.

Roy: Yeah, but I didn’t—

Arnold: You know, abuse takes many forms. You don’t have to sit and spout a
blue streak at somebody to abuse them.

Roy: No, but all … all I said to her was, Is Arny there? That’s all I said—

Arnold: No! Well, let’s put it this way: You managed to do it in such a
fashion that she perceived it as being abuse. And that’s good enough for me. I
love my daughter. After all, my daughter does not do to me what you do to me.

Roy: Does your wife think I abused her just now? Because I asked her, just
now, is Arnold there, in exactly the same way I asked her the first itme.

Arnold: [sighs] Um… I don’t know what my wife’s current state of mind is. But
she recognized you for who you are, I think. And of course that makes her very
wary, because she knows some of the things you said about her in public.
[pause ]And I think you really ought to think about that, Roy. You know, I’ve
alluded to this before. And that is, my uh, my… uh… I’m sitting in front of my
Internet terminal right now. It’s sitting in what amounts to be my family
room. It’s a 20-inch terminal. Anybody who wants to can come up behind it and
read it. When I’m not working on it, sometimes I walk away from it with posts
showing. So whatever I happen to be reading at the time, people can read. This
includes my wife and this includes my daughter. Go figure.

Roy: You threatened to … You threatened to, um, report Jeff Adams to his
employer.

Arnold: I did not.

Roy: You threatened him in email. He posted on RAO that you threatened him in
email that you were going to report him to his employer.

Arnold: I am completely unaware of that, of him saying that, and I’m surely
unaware of actually doing such a thing.

Roy: hm. So that’s … that’s pretty bad form.

Arnold: I … I … I would say it is bad form. What I would say for sure is,
other people have uh, definitely done such a thing. JJ has definitely been the
recipient of that from Middius and also from, uh, one other creep. But no, I
haven’t re— I haven’t, no, I have never done such a thing to Jeff Adams. I
mean, there may be something that he perceived that way. There may be some
words that he’s… that have been construed that way. But let me assure you,
that’s not where I’m coming from. That’s not what I do. And if you think I’ve
done that, I don’t know why you would think that.

Roy: Jeff Adams seemed like a very—

Arnold: I don’t know — I don’t know that Jeff Adams has actually said such a
thing.

Roy: Jeff Adams seemed like a very honest kind of guy, and he’s obviously
religious.

Arnold: I’m just saying, I don’t … I’m not aware that Jeff has said such a
thing.

Roy: I’m sure … I’m sure it’s on dejanews.

Arnold: I think… I think… I think that your memory is acting up. Because
number one, uh, it’s not a thing I would do. I mean, it’s just like Fred be,
who claims that, uh, Ferstler and I sent him pornography. Do you think for a
second that Ferstler and I would even bother to do that, even if we’d stoop to
thinking about doing that?

Roy: I don’t know. I mean, I don’t know you very well, do I. I don’t know what
you give of yourself on the newsgroup.

Arnold: Well, I… I… well, let’s put it this way. You already figured out that
the persona on the newsgroup is a function of a long and rather unhappy
history on the newsgroup. Well, let’s put it this way. The closest thing I’ve
ever done to sending anybody pornography is sending a subjectivist a technical
paper. You know what I’m saying?

Roy: Hm.

Arnold: I don’t give a **** about pornography. It’s … As I told Atkinson, I
have a life. I have stuff to do. I don’t screw with that ****.

Roy: Why don’t you buy a decent newsreader, by the way?

Arnold: I’ve explained that.

Roy: I don’t recall your answer, apart from something you—

Arnold: Well, as you know, I’m a software person. Therefore, in order to
undertand the software my clients use, I try to use the software my clients
use. The overwhelming majority of my clients use Outlook Express.

Roy: Are you not actually capable—

Arnold: Huh?

Roy: Are you not actually capable of using other software besides Outlook
Express as well?

Arnold: Um… Let’s put it this way. I have a life, and as far as the issue of
reformatting, go through the list. You know, do you have the capability of
finding out what newsreader people are actually using to make their posts?

Roy: Yes, Agent is about the best newsreader and it—

Arnold: No, I didn’t ask that question. I said, do you have the capability of
finding out what newsreader people are using to make their posts?

Roy: Agent is about the best newsreader and it allows you to—

Arnold: I didn’t—that isn’t what I said.

Roy: I was just adding something in. Agent is about the best newsreader and
you can see what people are posting—where people are posting from and what
newsreader they’re using.

Arnold: OK, so why don’t you go through a list of posts on a typical newsgroup
and find out what most people post with.

Roy: A lot of people post using Outlook Express. But that doesn’t—

Arnold: Most people post using Outlook Express. So why in the world are you
complaining about the fact that I use Outlook Express?

Roy: I’m not. I—I complain because you’re… you’ve set Outlook Express up, but
it doesn’t quote people properly. It chops all their quotes up into bits.

Arnold: Well, uh, you know, uh, it’s a very simple story. In order to post
onto RAHE, your posts have to be under 70 bytes wide.

Roy: Right.

Arnold: So—

Roy: 70 bytes?

Arnold: 70 characters.

Roy: Well, you can do that with Agent. You can do that with any newsreader.

Arnold: Well, if you set—let’s put it this way. If you set up Outlook Express
so it creates posts that are 70 bytes wide, uh…… for RAHE, guess how wide
they are for, uh…… RAO? [pause] But again, this is a absolutely bogus, stupid
issue.

Roy: But most people manage to make their Internet posts look presentable and
look nice. And you, supposedly being into computers and into software—

Arnold: Uh, Roy, do you want to talk to me about serious issues, or do you
want to whine?

Roy: I’m not whining, I’m just asking you a simple question.

Arnold: No, I’m … This is a WHINE! I’ve explained to you why I use Outlook
Express. If you want, you know… Are you interested in just, you know, bitching
at me, or are you interested in actually making some kind of peace with me?

Roy: I’m interested in making peace with you, as I said at the beginning.

Arnold: Well, if you’re interested in making peace with me, like I said, item
number one: Quit throwing garbage on my lawn.

Roy: What kind of garbage? What don’t you like?

Arnold: I… Let’s put it this way: I would … uh… If I was a god of RAO, RAO
would contain … um… Well, RAO would become that ideal… um… moderated/not
moderated newsgroup that everybody wishes it would become. That’s what would
happen to RAO. No personal attacks…. Uh… very limited off-topic content.
Bascially, people talking about audio.

Roy: When you call things, you say things that are obviously incorrect….

Arnold: Give me an example of something I said that’s obviously incorrect.

Roy: All amplifiers of low THD sound the same.

Arnold: Uh… That is a false claim. And, uh, as to the conditions for
amplifiers sounding the same as, you know, goes way beyond that. THD isn’t
even on the list.

Roy: So what are you saying makes amplifiers sound the same then? Are you
saying a lot of amplifiers could sound different?

Arnold: [giggles, then falsettoes] I can’t believe this! How many times have I
said some amplifiers sound the same, some amplifiers sound different? That’s
reality.

Fella
July 20th 05, 04:06 PM
EddieM wrote:
> <ring ring ring>
>
> Susan: Hello?

...clip

Judging from what I read I see that it was never your intention to build
any from of truce with arny, you just wanted to catch him on tape, yes?

It does get the job done and expose the arrogance, paranoia, etc, behind
the man, yes, but the means you've used for this end is ethically
questionable, at best.

Two questions: Was arny always like the way he is today, from day one,
or is what he is today a "reaction"?

When you become like your enemy to win the war, who wins?

Schizoid Man
July 20th 05, 07:11 PM
EddieM wrote:

> Roy: You threatened to … You threatened to, um, report Jeff Adams to his
> employer.
>
> Arnold: I did not.
>
> Roy: You threatened him in email. He posted on RAO that you threatened him in
> email that you were going to report him to his employer.
>
> Arnold: I am completely unaware of that, of him saying that, and I’m surely
> unaware of actually doing such a thing.
>
> Roy: hm. So that’s … that’s pretty bad form.
>
> Arnold: I … I … I would say it is bad form. What I would say for sure is,
> other people have uh, definitely done such a thing. JJ has definitely been the
> recipient of that from Middius and also from, uh, one other creep.

Arny,

Did you really threaten to report someone to his employer? Over a
discussion about a hobby on a newsgroup? Are you serious?

You keep saying that you have a life in the above conversation, but your
actions (and verbs) certainly seem to contradict that.

Margaret von B.
July 20th 05, 07:58 PM
"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
> EddieM wrote:
>> <ring ring ring>
>>
>> Susan: Hello?
>
> ..clip
>
> Judging from what I read I see that it was never your intention to build
> any from of truce with arny, you just wanted to catch him on tape, yes?
>
> It does get the job done and expose the arrogance, paranoia, etc, behind
> the man, yes, but the means you've used for this end is ethically
> questionable, at best.
>
> Two questions: Was arny always like the way he is today, from day one, or
> is what he is today a "reaction"?
>

Hey Fella,

There's a good chance you'll understand this. Arny syntyi mulkkuna ja
mulkuksi jäi. Anteeksi huono kielitaito. :-)


> When you become like your enemy to win the war, who wins?

Winning is not the point here. The battle is.

Cheers,

Margaret

ScottW
July 20th 05, 08:40 PM
Margaret von B. wrote:
> "Fella" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > EddieM wrote:
> >> <ring ring ring>
> >>
> >> Susan: Hello?
> >
> > ..clip
> >
> > Judging from what I read I see that it was never your intention to build
> > any from of truce with arny, you just wanted to catch him on tape, yes?
> >
> > It does get the job done and expose the arrogance, paranoia, etc, behind
> > the man, yes, but the means you've used for this end is ethically
> > questionable, at best.
> >
> > Two questions: Was arny always like the way he is today, from day one, =
or
> > is what he is today a "reaction"?
> >
>
> Hey Fella,
>
> There's a good chance you'll understand this. Arny syntyi mulkkuna ja
> mulkuksi j=E4i. Anteeksi huono kielitaito. :-)
>
>
> > When you become like your enemy to win the war, who wins?
>
> Winning is not the point here. The battle is.

Only to some... like George who recently admitted he didn't want the
Borgs vanquished. They're the only fun he has.

ScottW

Bruce C. Miller
July 20th 05, 08:43 PM
EddieM wrote:
> <ring ring ring>
>
> Susan: Hello?

Interesting read. I have two questions:

Is this conversation (which I'm guessing was taped) available in audio
file format on the web somewhere?

Does the tape cut off or did one party hang up at the end of this log?
It seems to just end. No goodbyes. Nothing.

Fella
July 21st 05, 08:50 AM
Margaret von B. wrote:
> "Fella" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>EddieM wrote:
>>
>>><ring ring ring>
>>>
>>>Susan: Hello?
>>
>>..clip
>>
>>Judging from what I read I see that it was never your intention to build
>>any from of truce with arny, you just wanted to catch him on tape, yes?
>>
>>It does get the job done and expose the arrogance, paranoia, etc, behind
>>the man, yes, but the means you've used for this end is ethically
>>questionable, at best.
>>
>>Two questions: Was arny always like the way he is today, from day one, or
>>is what he is today a "reaction"?
>>
>
>
> Hey Fella,
>
> There's a good chance you'll understand this. Arny syntyi mulkkuna ja
> mulkuksi jäi. Anteeksi huono kielitaito. :-)

Ei mitään aihetta pyytää anteeksi, se oli täysin oikea. :)

>
>>When you become like your enemy to win the war, who wins?
>
>
> Winning is not the point here. The battle is.

No actually "the battle" stresses me out too much. I *would have* liked
to be able to ask you, amongst others, a question or two about amps, but
all this pukey name calling, **** thrown all over the place, I am again
ready to leave.

EddieM
July 21st 05, 10:16 AM
> Bruce C. Miller wrote
>> EddieM wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Is this conversation (which I'm guessing was taped) available in audio
> file format on the web somewhere?
>
> Does the tape cut off or did one party hang up at the end of this log?
> It seems to just end. No goodbyes. Nothing.



I've no Idea as to any of the above!

George M. Middius
July 21st 05, 11:13 AM
EddieM said:

> I've no Idea as to any of the above!

You don't have any idea about anything, do you? Except pure id-driven
self-indulgence. It's a wonder you haven't had your fingers chopped off in a
domestic accident.

How old are you, anyway? I'd guess 12 based only on your posts. Are you
borderline retarded as well as being grotesquely immature?

EddieM
July 21st 05, 12:02 PM
> George M. Middius wrote
>> EddieM said:
>
>
>> I've no Idea as to any of the above!
>
> You don't have any idea about anything, do you?


All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.


> Except pure id-driven
> self-indulgence. It's a wonder you haven't had your fingers chopped off in a
> domestic accident.
>
> How old are you, anyway? I'd guess 12 based only on your posts. Are you
> borderline retarded as well as being grotesquely immature?

George M. Middius
July 21st 05, 12:31 PM
EddieM said:

> > You don't have any idea about anything, do you?

> All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.

That's a lie. Are you posting from inside?

EddieM
July 21st 05, 01:00 PM
> George M. Middius wrote
>> EddieM said:
>
>
>
>> > You don't have any idea about anything, do you?
>
>> All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.
>
>
> That's a lie.

No. All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.


>Are you posting from inside?


No, assuming that's possible.

George M. Middius
July 21st 05, 01:19 PM
EddieM said:

> >> > You don't have any idea about anything, do you?

> >> All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.

> > That's a lie.

> No. All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.

It's a good thing for you that you're a cowardly anonymous rodent. Otherwise
you'd be facing up to the consequences of your ****ty behavior.

EddieM
July 21st 05, 02:01 PM
> George M. Middius wrote
>> EddieM said:
>
>
>
>
>> >> > You don't have any idea about anything, do you?
>
>> >> All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.
>
>> > That's a lie.
>
>> No. All previous information made possible and accessible through Rao.
>
> It's a good thing for you that you're a cowardly anonymous rodent. Otherwise
> you'd be facing up to the consequences of your ****ty behavior.


For the information made possible and accessible through Rao ?

Margaret von B.
July 21st 05, 02:30 PM
"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
> Margaret von B. wrote:
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>>EddieM wrote:
>>>
>>>><ring ring ring>
>>>>
>>>>Susan: Hello?
>>>
>>>..clip
>>>
>>>Judging from what I read I see that it was never your intention to build
>>>any from of truce with arny, you just wanted to catch him on tape, yes?
>>>
>>>It does get the job done and expose the arrogance, paranoia, etc, behind
>>>the man, yes, but the means you've used for this end is ethically
>>>questionable, at best.
>>>
>>>Two questions: Was arny always like the way he is today, from day one, or
>>>is what he is today a "reaction"?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Fella,
>>
>> There's a good chance you'll understand this. Arny syntyi mulkkuna ja
>> mulkuksi jäi. Anteeksi huono kielitaito. :-)
>
> Ei mitään aihetta pyytää anteeksi, se oli täysin oikea. :)
>
>>
>>>When you become like your enemy to win the war, who wins?
>>
>>
>> Winning is not the point here. The battle is.
>
> No actually "the battle" stresses me out too much. I *would have* liked to
> be able to ask you, amongst others, a question or two about amps,

Please do, maybe I can be of help. Although I'm not an engineer... :-)

>but all this pukey name calling, **** thrown all over the place, I am again
>ready to leave.

One has to recognize this place for what it is. It really went downhill
after the death of one Steve Zipser, a gentleman I never knew. He seemed to
be able to inject audio content at every turn and also keep the group a
really fun place. Would have been much better for the group if Krooborg had
died instead of him.

Cheers,

Margaret

Fella
July 21st 05, 02:52 PM
Margaret von B. wrote:
> "Fella" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>
>>I *would have* liked to
>>be able to ask you, amongst others, a question or two about amps,
>
>
> Please do, maybe I can be of help. Although I'm not an engineer... :-)
>


I have this problem brewing with my amp. The volume control, when raised
from zero, in the very beginning makes a sizzle kind of a sound from the
left speaker. It is a slight, small sound as yet. It's just dust on the
pot, yes. But I know it will get worse and worse. It will be so that the
left channel will just go off and on randomly, in time. Cleaning it
would only delay that inevitable state of affairs. The densen has a
lifetime guarantee but I do not know what they'd do if I send it over to
denmark for cleaning. They might just clean the thing and send it back
(as opposed to replacing the pot). I would wait a couple of months
without music. And the same thing all over again after 6 months, etc.

So, I need to change that amp. I am looking at digital volume controlled
amps. My budget is around 5-6k euros. Whatever I have tried up to now
did not match up with this densen. I just love the sound of it (and not
much else about it, no remote, for instance) Listen to "Ömer Faruk
Tekbilek" the "Whirling" album, song number 5, for instance, with the
densen.. The way the Kanun's (kantarell in finnish, btw) strings ring in
the air, the speed and dynamic peaks of the attack, the lingering
"sweet" decays, etc. I am not getting that from other amps. What I get
is pompous, overblown midranges, huge soundstages, etc.

So here go the questions:

I want my next amp to have digital source select and volume controls,
remote possibility. But is there similar problems to expect from such
designs in the long run also?

Is there an amp out there with digital controls that still is able to
deliver the same speed and immediacy as this densen crap?

Also, the wife and I, we do not like too much the looks of this densen.
It's like something out of that movie, 2001 space odysey. :) So good
looks would also be a plus. No problem with availability in Finland, as
I travel to the US and UK almost on a regular basis.

What can I say, you asked for it. :)

George Middius
July 21st 05, 03:14 PM
EddieM said:

>> It's a good thing for you that you're a cowardly anonymous rodent. Otherwise
>> you'd be facing up to the consequences of your ****ty behavior.

>For the information made possible and accessible through Rao ?

What's your full name? What's your email address? Never mind, I'll just go
directly to Prodigy and let them sort you out.

In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.

Margaret von B.
July 21st 05, 03:22 PM
"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
> Margaret von B. wrote:
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>>
>>>I *would have* liked to be able to ask you, amongst others, a question or
>>>two about amps,
>>
>>
>> Please do, maybe I can be of help. Although I'm not an engineer... :-)
>>
>
>
> I have this problem brewing with my amp. The volume control, when raised
> from zero, in the very beginning makes a sizzle kind of a sound from the
> left speaker. It is a slight, small sound as yet. It's just dust on the
> pot, yes. But I know it will get worse and worse. It will be so that the
> left channel will just go off and on randomly, in time. Cleaning it would
> only delay that inevitable state of affairs.

But you should do it anyway :-)

http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f

Just lift the lid and do it yourself. Almost free, no downtime. Cures a
majority of those problems for years to come. Just make sure you don't have
some fancy-ass optical thingy like the Porzilli in some Melos amps.

> The densen has a lifetime guarantee but I do not know what they'd do if I
> send it over to denmark for cleaning. They might just clean the thing and
> send it back (as opposed to replacing the pot). I would wait a couple of
> months without music. And the same thing all over again after 6 months,
> etc.
>
> So, I need to change that amp. I am looking at digital volume controlled
> amps. My budget is around 5-6k euros. Whatever I have tried up to now did
> not match up with this densen. I just love the sound of it (and not much
> else about it, no remote, for instance) Listen to "Ömer Faruk Tekbilek"
> the "Whirling" album, song number 5, for instance, with the densen.. The
> way the Kanun's (kantarell in finnish, btw) strings ring in the air, the
> speed and dynamic peaks of the attack, the lingering "sweet" decays, etc.
> I am not getting that from other amps. What I get is pompous, overblown
> midranges, huge soundstages, etc.
>
> So here go the questions:
>
> I want my next amp to have digital source select and volume controls,
> remote possibility. But is there similar problems to expect from such
> designs in the long run also?
>
> Is there an amp out there with digital controls that still is able to
> deliver the same speed and immediacy as this densen crap?
>
> Also, the wife and I, we do not like too much the looks of this densen.
> It's like something out of that movie, 2001 space odysey. :) So good looks
> would also be a plus. No problem with availability in Finland, as I travel
> to the US and UK almost on a regular basis.
>
> What can I say, you asked for it. :)

Three questions:

What speakers do you have? If not found on the net, what are the specs?

How big is your room?

Ever travel to Boston?

Make it four:

What's the model of your current Densen amp?

Cheers,

Margaret

Fella
July 21st 05, 03:32 PM
Margaret von B. wrote:
> "Fella" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>Margaret von B. wrote:
>>
>>>"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
>>>
>>>
>>>>I *would have* liked to be able to ask you, amongst others, a question or
>>>>two about amps,
>>>
>>>
>>>Please do, maybe I can be of help. Although I'm not an engineer... :-)
>>>
>>
>>
>>I have this problem brewing with my amp. The volume control, when raised
>>from zero, in the very beginning makes a sizzle kind of a sound from the
>>left speaker. It is a slight, small sound as yet. It's just dust on the
>>pot, yes. But I know it will get worse and worse. It will be so that the
>>left channel will just go off and on randomly, in time. Cleaning it would
>>only delay that inevitable state of affairs.
>
>
> But you should do it anyway :-)
>
> http://store.caig.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.188/.f
>

I have had a similar experience with my previous amp, an onkyo integra
integrated (wasn't into "high-end" then) .. It was the source select
that time, not volume.. I opened the thing and sprayed and sprayed away.
Took only weeks for the sizzle ghost to come back.. Though perhaps with
the densen alps pot, it might not be the case.

> Just lift the lid and do it yourself.

It seems to be a different construction, hard to do, but I'll try.

>
>>The densen has a lifetime guarantee but I do not know what they'd do if I
>>send it over to denmark for cleaning. They might just clean the thing and
>>send it back (as opposed to replacing the pot). I would wait a couple of
>>months without music. And the same thing all over again after 6 months,
>>etc.
>>

>
> Three questions:
>
> What speakers do you have? If not found on the net, what are the specs?

Sonus faber concerto grand pianos.

http://www.stereophile.com/loudspeakerreviews/269/


>
> How big is your room?

Err.. never measured. I have this dedicated listening room, at least the
clap echo deadened, just standart room, what, 15-20sqm?

>
> Ever travel to Boston?

New York, so boston might not be all that of a prob.

>
> Make it four:
>
> What's the model of your current Densen amp?

Beat b100 mkV.

Sander deWaal
July 21st 05, 05:13 PM
Fella > said:

>I have this problem brewing with my amp. The volume control, when raised
>from zero, in the very beginning makes a sizzle kind of a sound from the
>left speaker. It is a slight, small sound as yet. It's just dust on the
>pot, yes. But I know it will get worse and worse. It will be so that the
>left channel will just go off and on randomly, in time. Cleaning it
>would only delay that inevitable state of affairs. The densen has a
>lifetime guarantee but I do not know what they'd do if I send it over to
>denmark for cleaning. They might just clean the thing and send it back
>(as opposed to replacing the pot). I would wait a couple of months
>without music. And the same thing all over again after 6 months, etc.


Densen will change the pot for you if you ask them to.
But why pay for shipping, etc., if you can do it yourself?
And use the opportunity to change it from an Alps to a Noble 50k pot.
Or, if you're really courageous, a DACT stepped attenuator swith.


>So, I need to change that amp. I am looking at digital volume controlled
>amps. My budget is around 5-6k euros. Whatever I have tried up to now
>did not match up with this densen. I just love the sound of it (and not
>much else about it, no remote, for instance) Listen to "Ömer Faruk
>Tekbilek" the "Whirling" album, song number 5, for instance, with the
>densen.. The way the Kanun's (kantarell in finnish, btw) strings ring in
>the air, the speed and dynamic peaks of the attack, the lingering
>"sweet" decays, etc. I am not getting that from other amps. What I get
>is pompous, overblown midranges, huge soundstages, etc.


My amps that you were interested in are poweramps only, no volume
controls.
So you'll have to find yourself some preamp or passive volume control
unit.

>So here go the questions:

>I want my next amp to have digital source select and volume controls,
>remote possibility. But is there similar problems to expect from such
>designs in the long run also?


Digital volume circuits degrade the signal, unless they use a
mechanical solution like a good motorpot.
Even then, there are no motorpots available that are of the same
quality as the Noble or even an Alps BB.
That's why I don't use digital remote volume circuits.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

Fella
July 21st 05, 05:28 PM
Sander deWaal wrote:
> Fella > said:
>
>
>>I have this problem brewing with my amp. The volume control, when raised
>
>>from zero, in the very beginning makes a sizzle kind of a sound from the
>
>>left speaker. It is a slight, small sound as yet. It's just dust on the
>>pot, yes. But I know it will get worse and worse. It will be so that the
>>left channel will just go off and on randomly, in time. Cleaning it
>>would only delay that inevitable state of affairs. The densen has a
>>lifetime guarantee but I do not know what they'd do if I send it over to
>>denmark for cleaning. They might just clean the thing and send it back
>>(as opposed to replacing the pot). I would wait a couple of months
>>without music. And the same thing all over again after 6 months, etc.
>
>
>
> Densen will change the pot for you if you ask them to.

I asked them about that and they said it just needed cleaning. Didn't
want to argue with them though.

> But why pay for shipping, etc., if you can do it yourself?

I have held a solder iron a couple of times in my life. :)

> And use the opportunity to change it from an Alps to a pot.

I'll look into this asap. I must confess though, before this malfunction
I really loved that alps pot.

> Or, if you're really courageous, a DACT stepped attenuator swith.

I don't like the stepped stuff, sometimes I walk over to the amp and
move it up just a tiny bit, dunno why, I just need that tiny bit of
extra sound in a given passage. Stepped stuff wouldn't let you do that.

Since this happened to the volume pot am I to assume that the source
select is on it's way also? I guess pretty soon, yes?


> So you'll have to find yourself some preamp or passive volume control
> unit.

Densen gives preamp out.

>
>
>
> Digital volume circuits degrade the signal, unless they use a
> mechanical solution like a good motorpot.
> Even then, there are no motorpots available that are of the same
> quality as the Noble or even an Alps BB.

I have seen some incredibly expensive stuff use digital. Is your view
also valid for them? What do you think about digital source selects?

Sander deWaal
July 21st 05, 05:37 PM
Fella > said:

>> And use the opportunity to change it from an Alps to a Noble pot.

>I'll look into this asap. I must confess though, before this malfunction
> I really loved that alps pot.


You'll love the Noble even more, trust me.
Especially in 5 years from now :-)


>> Or, if you're really courageous, a DACT stepped attenuator swith.

>I don't like the stepped stuff, sometimes I walk over to the amp and
>move it up just a tiny bit, dunno why, I just need that tiny bit of
>extra sound in a given passage. Stepped stuff wouldn't let you do that.


That's the downside of it, yes.
One can use a 24-steps switch and wire it thusly that the low portion
of the volume setting has 1 dB steps, and the higher portions get 3
dB.

The consequence of this is that you can't mute the signal entirely,
unless an extra mute switch is added.


>Since this happened to the volume pot am I to assume that the source
>select is on it's way also? I guess pretty soon, yes?


Not necessarily.
A switch is a different mechanism than a pot.
And besides, if the amp is fitted with relays of good quality, there's
no fear for any crackling problems in teh ofreseeable future.
My current pre-amp, the basis of which dates back some 10 years, uses
gold-plated relays for input switching.
So far, no problems have arised.


>> So you'll have to find yourself some preamp or passive volume control
>> unit.


>Densen gives preamp out.


OK.


>> Digital volume circuits degrade the signal, unless they use a
>> mechanical solution like a good motorpot.
>> Even then, there are no motorpots available that are of the same
>> quality as the Noble or even an Alps BB.

>I have seen some incredibly expensive stuff use digital. Is your view
>also valid for them? What do you think about digital source selects?


The very way a digital attenuator works, makes that at very low
levels, degradation is inevitable.
Simply stated, at very low levels, there are fewer bits to describe an
analog signal.

Digital source selectors, when using relays, are OK.
When using MOS switches, definitely not OK.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

Margaret von B.
July 21st 05, 07:07 PM
"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
> Margaret von B. wrote:
>> "Fella" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>
>>>
>>>I *would have* liked to be able to ask you, amongst others, a question or
>>>two about amps,
>>
>>
>> Please do, maybe I can be of help. Although I'm not an engineer... :-)
>>
>
>
> I have this problem brewing with my amp. The volume control, when raised
> from zero, in the very beginning makes a sizzle kind of a sound from the
> left speaker. It is a slight, small sound as yet. It's just dust on the
> pot, yes. But I know it will get worse and worse. It will be so that the
> left channel will just go off and on randomly, in time. Cleaning it would
> only delay that inevitable state of affairs. The densen has a lifetime
> guarantee but I do not know what they'd do if I send it over to denmark
> for cleaning. They might just clean the thing and send it back (as opposed
> to replacing the pot). I would wait a couple of months without music. And
> the same thing all over again after 6 months, etc.
>
> So, I need to change that amp. I am looking at digital volume controlled
> amps. My budget is around 5-6k euros. Whatever I have tried up to now did
> not match up with this densen. I just love the sound of it (and not much
> else about it, no remote, for instance) Listen to "Ömer Faruk Tekbilek"
> the "Whirling" album, song number 5, for instance, with the densen.. The
> way the Kanun's (kantarell in finnish, btw) strings ring in the air, the
> speed and dynamic peaks of the attack, the lingering "sweet" decays, etc.
> I am not getting that from other amps. What I get is pompous, overblown
> midranges, huge soundstages, etc.
>
> So here go the questions:
>
> I want my next amp to have digital source select and volume controls,
> remote possibility. But is there similar problems to expect from such
> designs in the long run also?
>
> Is there an amp out there with digital controls that still is able to
> deliver the same speed and immediacy as this densen crap?
>
> Also, the wife and I, we do not like too much the looks of this densen.
> It's like something out of that movie, 2001 space odysey. :) So good looks
> would also be a plus. No problem with availability in Finland, as I travel
> to the US and UK almost on a regular basis.
>
> What can I say, you asked for it. :)

Yes, you got me there. I don't know of any product that will meet your
requirements and neither do any of my close associates I consulted. However,
I don't think that a digital volume control is a good idea to begin with.

Based on everything I know about your system and preferences. I'd say that
you're definitily a Spectral man. However, you will also get taut,
thunderous but not exaggerated bass. No integrated's though. You should
consult Alan at www.goodwinshighend.com . He treats his overseas customers
like no one else. He also has the best brands imaginable under one roof.

Cheers,

Margaret

GeoSynch
July 22nd 05, 05:03 AM
George Middius wrote:

> EddieM said:

>>> It's a good thing for you that you're a cowardly anonymous rodent. Otherwise
>>> you'd be facing up to the consequences of your ****ty behavior.

>>For the information made possible and accessible through Rao ?

> What's your full name? What's your email address? Never mind, I'll just go
> directly to Prodigy and let them sort you out.

> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.

While you're at it, George, here's a little more info for you
EddieM uses NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.170.202.62

Sam Spade lists the following for that IP address:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
07/21/05 18:56:16 IP block 64.170.202.62
Trying 64.170.202.62 at ARIN
Trying 64.170.202 at ARIN

OrgName: Pac Bell Internet Services
OrgID: PACB
Address: 208 Bush St. #5000
City: San Ramon
StateProv: CA
PostalCode: 94104
Country: US

NetRange: 64.160.0.0 - 64.175.255.255
CIDR: 64.160.0.0/12
NetName: PBI-NET-8
NetHandle: NET-64-160-0-0-1
Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.PBI.NET
NameServer: NS2.PBI.NET
Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
Comment: please send all abuse issue e-mails to
RegDate: 2000-06-02
Updated: 2001-09-26
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

EddieM confirms he lives in northern California:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.birds.pigeons/msg/27e3acc97d65cb42?hl=en
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.car/msg/7b8155e4db57439e?hl=en

That same IP address was used for this forged e-mail:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.opinion/msg/671f7540abc38ea6?hl=en


GeoSynch

Fella
July 22nd 05, 07:50 AM
Margaret von B. wrote:
>
> Yes, you got me there. I don't know of any product that will meet your
> requirements and neither do any of my close associates I consulted. However,
> I don't think that a digital volume control is a good idea to begin with.
>
> Based on everything I know about your system and preferences. I'd say that
> you're definitily a Spectral man. However, you will also get taut,
> thunderous but not exaggerated bass. No integrated's though. You should
> consult Alan at www.goodwinshighend.com . He treats his overseas customers
> like no one else. He also has the best brands imaginable under one roof.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Margaret
>

Thank you Margaret, I'll look into this site and perhaps even contact
Alan. Bein so picky though, I doubt I'd ever be able to purchase from
long distance as I need extensive auditioning. :)

EddieM
July 22nd 05, 11:12 AM
> George Middius wrote
>> EddieM said:
>
>
>
>
>>> It's a good thing for you that you're a cowardly anonymous rodent.
>>> Otherwise
>>> you'd be facing up to the consequences of your ****ty behavior.
>
>>For the information made possible and accessible through Rao ?
>
> What's your full name? What's your email address? Never mind, I'll just go
> directly to Prodigy and let them sort you out.
>
> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.



What is your specific objection about an information made possible
and accesible through Rao ?

George M. Middius
July 22nd 05, 11:23 AM
EddieM said:

> > What's your full name? What's your email address? Never mind, I'll just go
> > directly to Prodigy and let them sort you out.
> >
> > In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.

> What is your specific objection

I reported your slimy ass to Prodigy. Maybe they'll do something about you,
you filthy maggot.

In the meantime, you might want to ask your doctor if he can help you reach
maturity. I doubt your family like being saddled with a putative adult who
operates at the level of a 12-year-old.

EddieM
July 22nd 05, 12:41 PM
> George M. Middius wrote
>> EddieM said:
>
>
>
>> > What's your full name? What's your email address? Never mind,
>> > I'll just go directly to Prodigy and let them sort you out.
>> >
>> > In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.
>
>> What is your specific objection
>
> I reported your slimy ass to Prodigy. Maybe they'll do something about
> you, you filthy maggot.


Why not answer the question ?


> In the meantime, you might want to ask your doctor if he can help you
> reach maturity. I doubt your family like being saddled with a putative
> adult who operates at the level of a 12-year-old.


Did you report it under your name ?

George Middius
July 22nd 05, 03:33 PM
The sociopath hiding behind the anonymous handle "EddieM" said:

>> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.

>What is your specific objection

I don't see the point in discussing ethics with a person who has no conscience.

Margaret von B.
July 22nd 05, 05:55 PM
"Fella" > wrote in message
.. .
> Margaret von B. wrote:
>>
>> Yes, you got me there. I don't know of any product that will meet your
>> requirements and neither do any of my close associates I consulted.
>> However, I don't think that a digital volume control is a good idea to
>> begin with.
>>
>> Based on everything I know about your system and preferences. I'd say
>> that you're definitily a Spectral man. However, you will also get taut,
>> thunderous but not exaggerated bass. No integrated's though. You should
>> consult Alan at www.goodwinshighend.com . He treats his overseas
>> customers like no one else. He also has the best brands imaginable under
>> one roof.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Margaret
>>
>
> Thank you Margaret, I'll look into this site and perhaps even contact
> Alan. Bein so picky though, I doubt I'd ever be able to purchase from long
> distance as I need extensive auditioning. :)

It is by appointment only. You schedule your visit and take your time, no
distractions. Ask him details about his current approach to servicing
overseas customers. Haven't needed to buy anything from dealers in years so
I'm not up to his latest business model. I know that it was GOOD and I doubt
that it has deteriorated.

Cheers,

Margaret

Schizoid Man
July 22nd 05, 06:46 PM
GeoSynch wrote:

> George Middius wrote:
>
> EddieM confirms he lives in northern California:
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.pets.birds.pigeons/msg/27e3acc97d65cb42?hl=en
> http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.audio.car/msg/7b8155e4db57439e?hl=en

A fellow NoCal netizen. Good stuff!

July 22nd 05, 09:14 PM
"George Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> The sociopath hiding behind the anonymous handle "EddieM" said:
>
> >> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.
>
> >What is your specific objection
>
> I don't see the point in discussing ethics with a person who has no
conscience.
>
If irony killed.

Clyde Slick
July 22nd 05, 10:38 PM
" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "George Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> The sociopath hiding behind the anonymous handle "EddieM" said:
>>
>> >> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.
>>
>> >What is your specific objection
>>
>> I don't see the point in discussing ethics with a person who has no
> conscience.
>>
> If irony killed.
>
>

If irony killed, Arny would be with Nate.
If irony killed, your property would be landlocked.



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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Ruud Broens
July 22nd 05, 11:09 PM
"Fella" > wrote in message
...
:
: I have held a solder iron a couple of times in my life. :)
:
: And used the opportunity to change it from an Alps to a *pot.

Hmm. Deceptive editing* noted :)
Rudy

George M. Middius
July 22nd 05, 11:19 PM
Clyde Slick said:

> If irony killed, Arny would be with Nate.
> If irony killed, your property would be landlocked.

And feces and bugs would be delicacies.

July 23rd 05, 01:46 AM
"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> " > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > "George Middius" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >>
> >> The sociopath hiding behind the anonymous handle "EddieM" said:
> >>
> >> >> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.
> >>
> >> >What is your specific objection
> >>
> >> I don't see the point in discussing ethics with a person who has no
> > conscience.
> >>
> > If irony killed.
> >
> >
>
> If irony killed, Arny would be with Nate.
> If irony killed, your property would be landlocked.
>

Thanks for demonstrating you know as much about irony as Alanis
what'shername..
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
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EddieM
July 23rd 05, 05:12 PM
> George Middius wrote
> The sociopath hiding behind the anonymous handle "EddieM" said:
>
>
>
>>> In the meantime, go play in traffic. Use an exploding ball.
>
>>What is your specific objection
>
> I don't see the point in discussing ethics with a person who has no
> conscience.



The point in making a recorded then scripted conversation and was later
made possible and accessible through Rao where a subject had
said, "... Bull****, bull****, bull****" ?

EddieM
July 23rd 05, 05:15 PM
> George M. Middius wrote
>
>
>
> In the meantime, you might want to ask your doctor if he can help you
> reach maturity. I doubt your family like being saddled with a putative
> adult who operates at the level of a 12-year-old.


Did you report it under your name ?

Why not answer the question?

George M. Middius
July 23rd 05, 06:20 PM
EddieM said:

> > In the meantime, you might want to ask your doctor if he can help you
> > reach maturity. I doubt your family like being saddled with a putative
> > adult who operates at the level of a 12-year-old.

> Did you report it under your name ?

I told you to go play in traffic. Why didn't you? Did Mommy tie you to the
bed again and dump your dinner on your head?