Looking for 6" car speakers to replace MB Quart - QM 218.61 Q

[EddieM]

I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle earlier
today in my car and the screw driver slip and went through the
speaker itself.

So I'm condemned to look for speakers for the front only.
I still have the original QM 25.61 tweeters that came with these
components in good working order.

I'm looking for speaker with similar corresponding value to
complement the tweeters. Here's the technical data for that
speakers: [from the manual]

Impedance ------------- 4 ohm
power handling --------- 90 - 170 Watt
Transmission range -- 48 - 32000 Hz (?)
Transfer freq ------------ 2600Hz
Skirt selectivity --------- 12dB/ Okt


I recently bought DRZ9255 HU from Clarion and so the filter
slope and X-over freq. will be set through this unit.

Budget for this untimely investment is under 2k, and I prefer
speakers that are rated to go below 48 Hz if possible. It's been
a long time since I shop around for car speakers and I'm not sure
who the leading contenders out there. I'd like some opinion and
recommendations about speakers brands and model number
that you know with excellent sound and quality. Other suggestions?

[Scott Gardner]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 04:39:51 GMT, "EddieM" >
wrote:

>I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle earlier
>today in my car and the screw driver slip and went through the
>speaker itself.
>
>So I'm condemned to look for speakers for the front only.
>I still have the original QM 25.61 tweeters that came with these
>components in good working order.
>
>I'm looking for speaker with similar corresponding value to
>complement the tweeters. Here's the technical data for that
>speakers: [from the manual]
>
>Impedance ------------- 4 ohm
>power handling --------- 90 - 170 Watt
>Transmission range -- 48 - 32000 Hz (?)
>Transfer freq ------------ 2600Hz
>Skirt selectivity --------- 12dB/ Okt
>
>
>I recently bought DRZ9255 HU from Clarion and so the filter
>slope and X-over freq. will be set through this unit.
>
>Budget for this untimely investment is under 2k, and I prefer
>speakers that are rated to go below 48 Hz if possible. It's been
>a long time since I shop around for car speakers and I'm not sure
>who the leading contenders out there. I'd like some opinion and
>recommendations about speakers brands and model number
>that you know with excellent sound and quality. Other suggestions?
>
>

Did you just punch a hole in the cone? It would be a shame to waste a
pair of MB Quarts if the hole is just the diameter of the screwdriver
tip and there wasn't anything else damaged. A small circle of
electrical tape will fix that up. You'll never hear the difference,
and it won't shorten the life of the driver.


--
Scott Gardner

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session." (Judge Gideon J. Tucker, 1866.)"

[EddieM]

> Scott Gardner wrote
>> EddieM wrote:
>
>
>
>>I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle earlier
>>today in my car and the screw driver slip and went through the
>>speaker itself.
>>
>>So I'm condemned to look for speakers for the front only.
>>I still have the original QM 25.61 tweeters that came with these
>>components in good working order.
>>
>>I'm looking for speaker with similar corresponding value to
>>complement the tweeters. Here's the technical data for that
>>speakers: [from the manual]
>>
>>Impedance ------------- 4 ohm
>>power handling --------- 90 - 170 Watt
>>Transmission range -- 48 - 32000 Hz (?)
>>Transfer freq ------------ 2600Hz
>>Skirt selectivity --------- 12dB/ Okt
>>
>>
>>I recently bought DRZ9255 HU from Clarion and so the filter
>>slope and X-over freq. will be set through this unit.
>>
>>Budget for this untimely investment is under 2k, and I prefer
>>speakers that are rated to go below 48 Hz if possible. It's been
>>a long time since I shop around for car speakers and I'm not sure
>>who the leading contenders out there. I'd like some opinion and
>>recommendations about speakers brands and model number
>>that you know with excellent sound and quality. Other suggestions?
>>
>>
>
> Did you just punch a hole in the cone? It would be a shame to
> waste a pair of MB Quarts if the hole is just the diameter of the
> screwdriver tip and there wasn't anything else damaged. A small
> circle of electrical tape will fix that up. You'll never hear the
> difference, and it won't shorten the life of the driver.


Helo Scott. First of all, I wanna thank you for your prompt reply.

The screwdriver went through the middle portion of the speaker.
These speakers does not have magnets btw, and the screwdriver
went through there with force and just don't what the damages
were exactly.

But guess what ! I haven't played music through it yet though 'cause
I'm still making some adjustment on my power amp which is the
McIntosh MC440 ..... and I ran out time to finish up earlier.

But then I thought the speakers were already past their prime so
I decided upon getting some new ones.

[EddieM]

> EddieM wrote
>
>
>
> ...........the screwdriver went through there with force and
> ( I just don't know) what the damages were exactly.


The tip of the screwdriver went push through the concave
dust cap and left an aprrox. 1 mm x 1mm puncture hole.
It is too small I can't look inside.

[Vivek Kapoor]

Power the driver and close your eyse to listen to any crappy sound if any.

--
The best is yet to come
V

[EddieM]

> Vivek Kapoor wrote
>
>
> Power the driver and close your eyse to listen to any crappy sound if any.



Do I need to listen to it again in order to replace them with what I hope
to be a better component drivers? Mistakes are good, it drives you to
to look to make things better.

[Arny Krueger]

EddieM wrote:

> I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle
earlier
> today in my car and the screw driver slip and went through
the
> speaker itself.

So patch the hole in the cone with some Elmer's glue.

[Tony F]

"I recently bought DRZ9255 HU from Clarion and so the filter slope and
X-over freq. will be set through this unit."

Ahem. So how IS your new CD player treating you?

Tony



--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

[Scotty]

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> EddieM wrote:
>
>> I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle
> earlier
>> today in my car and the screw driver slip and went through
> the
>> speaker itself.
>
> So patch the hole in the cone with some Elmer's glue.
>
>
>

Not sure what Elmers Glue is but your best with silicon sealer as it is very
flexible and will not effect your sound reproduction.

[Chad Wahls]

"EddieM" > wrote in message
. com...
>
>> EddieM wrote
>>
>>
>>
> > ...........the screwdriver went through there with force and
>> ( I just don't know) what the damages were exactly.
>
>
> The tip of the screwdriver went push through the concave
> dust cap and left an aprrox. 1 mm x 1mm puncture hole.
> It is too small I can't look inside.
>

Run it as it is, if it worries you then take a small amount of 100% silicone
sealant and plug the hole, go sparingly as too much weight will affect the
t/s parameters. A small hole or a small amount of silicone will not be
noticeable.

Chad

[Arny Krueger]

Scotty wrote:
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> EddieM wrote:
>>
>>> I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle
>> earlier
>>> today in my car and the screw driver slip and went
through
>> the
>>> speaker itself.
>>
>> So patch the hole in the cone with some Elmer's glue.

> Not sure what Elmers Glue is

Elmer's white glue, as widely sold for home and school use.

Elmer's white glue is chemically speaking polyvinyl acetate
glue, which is the same as is widely used for assembling
speaker cones, surrounds and the like.

> but your best with silicon sealer as it
> is very flexible and will not effect your sound
reproduction.

Silicon sealer tends to go on thick and heavy and add excess
mass.

[MZ]

Arny, why not super glue? It tends to come out more as a liquid and tends
to be easier to use a small amount without ending up with a clump.

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Scotty wrote:
>> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> EddieM wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was tightening the screws around the speaker baffle
>>> earlier
>>>> today in my car and the screw driver slip and went
> through
>>> the
>>>> speaker itself.
>>>
>>> So patch the hole in the cone with some Elmer's glue.
>
>> Not sure what Elmers Glue is
>
> Elmer's white glue, as widely sold for home and school use.
>
> Elmer's white glue is chemically speaking polyvinyl acetate
> glue, which is the same as is widely used for assembling
> speaker cones, surrounds and the like.
>
>> but your best with silicon sealer as it
>> is very flexible and will not effect your sound
> reproduction.
>
> Silicon sealer tends to go on thick and heavy and add excess
> mass.
>
>

[Andy Weaks]

Tony F wrote:
> "I recently bought DRZ9255 HU from Clarion and so the filter slope and
> X-over freq. will be set through this unit."
>
> Ahem. So how IS your new CD player treating you?
>
> Tony
>
>
>

inquiring minds would like to know.

[EddieM]

> Andy Weaks wrote
>> Tony F wrote:
>>> EddieM
>
>
>
>
>>> "I recently bought DRZ9255 HU from Clarion and so the filter slope and
>>> X-over freq. will be set through this unit."
>>
>> Ahem. So how IS your new CD player treating you?
>>
>> Tony
>
>
> inquiring minds would like to know.


Yo Tony and Andy.

I guess this is a bad timing to ask but since quite a few of us hold
this HU dearly in our mind, I have to say something and tell it like
it is. As you know I have to rewire pretty much all the connection
between the HU to pwr amps, including my mono amp for subw
and then distribute the wires from these amps to each of the
speakers and tweeters, except to the subw, in my case. This has
to be done as part of configuring the speaker connections to achieve
the Standard Mode -- one of two Modes to which this HU was really
designed to sing. The other is Multi Mode which means you'll need
a separate rca connection from amps to each of the pair of tweeters,
mid range drivers, mid bass/woofers, and a single pair of rca for the
subw. So in a way, that's like having a huge 3-way speaker with a
single separate subw inside the car. Well, it just tells you what this
HU can do.

I think it's just a matter of preference which of the two primary Mode
is best for you, and which will sound best in the confinement of your
personal car.

After I finish all the rewiring, I had tough times selecting the most
appropriate high-pass filter for the tweeters and low-pass filter
for my midbass/woofer front speakers. Then there is also the
matter of choosing the most effective filter slope. This unit allows
you to choose from -6dB/oct, -12dB/oct, or -18dB/oct. I can realize
now how this unit is user friendly as it let me manipulate the sound
that I just could never do before.

As you can guess, I've yet to dwell into adjusting the Time-Alignment
function and, after that, mending the sound through it's Parametric
Equalizer, if needed be.

The Sound

My immediate reaction after fooling around with various setting
between filter freq. and filter slopes and finding where the sounds
seem most natural to me was the heighten purity in midrange freq.
There was an increase immediacy to the sound. The background
just sounded quieter.

The sound actually got a little bigger and the soundstage (or sound
dispersion) got wider but I think this is due to its 'unique' speaker
configuration and the fact that I no longer had to use a separate
and huge x-over boxes with heavy coils for these German speaker
components. As I been told before, they do suck out lotsa juices.

Bad News

I just notice that one of my tweeters appears defective. The sound
is greatly decrease compare to the other one. It actually produce a
subtle crackles when playing moderately loud. And the speaker
to the front left that I pierce with screwdriver now occationally
whoosh and sputter during loud passages. Has anyone experience
these before ?


Back To The Sound

I suppose I'll report back for more to say about this fine DRX9255
HU when I finally get the rest of my system under my thumb.

[EddieM]

> MZ wrote
>
>
> Arny, why not super glue? It tends to come out more as a liquid and tends
> to be easier to use a small amount without ending up with a clump.


I think that is also known as crazy glue. I use epoxy glue that is sold in
those twin injectible chamber. Anyway, it didn't solve my problem.

[EddieM]

> Chad Wahls wrote
>> EddieM wrote
>>> EddieM wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> > ...........the screwdriver went through there with force and
>>> ( I just don't know) what the damages were exactly.
>>
>>
>> The tip of the screwdriver went push through the concave
>> dust cap and left an aprrox. 1 mm x 1mm puncture hole.
>> It is too small I can't look inside.
>>
>
> Run it as it is, if it worries you then take a small amount of 100% silicone
> sealant and plug the hole, go sparingly as too much weight will affect the
> t/s parameters. A small hole or a small amount of silicone will not be
> noticeable.
>
> Chad


Thanks Chad but my problem now is to find a good set of
speaker components.

[EddieM]

> Tony F wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> 2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
> Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
> Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ,

> Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2
> Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure


Tony, I see you have Dynaudio and Focal in your touring widget. What can be
said more about these two warbling serenader ?




> 2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
> Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
> Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

[Tony F]

"Tony, I see you have Dynaudio and Focal in your touring widget. What can
be said more about these two warbling serenader ?"

The Dynaudios are just great. I've had them for so long that they are JUST
the way they are, you know? It's been so long since I've had anything else
that it's hard to compare them. All I know is that all low or high volume
they absolutely ROCK.

I have the lowest of the line of Focal coaxials as rear fill in my Maxima
and then also some as my main speakers in my S10. I have to say they are
the best coaxials I have ever heard and they actually sound much better than
many component sets I have listened to. Plus, they were MUCH less expensive
than the others. Not too many people that I've spoken to have ever owned
any which makes me feel really special. ;-)

Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

[Tony F]

Eddie,

Did you use some capacitors inline with your tweeters after you switched
from using the passive xovers to all active? From what I've learned, the
capacitors act to limit too much power from getting to the tweeters if
they're being run straight off the amplifier. There's more to it than that,
but that's the gist. I had to replace a pair of my Dynaudio tweeters once
even with the capacitors because my fingers got happy with my equalizer one
day when boosting the high frequencies.

I'm glad you're enjoying the player. It can be frustrating sometimes when
you have so much control over the xover points, level adjustments, and the
like. Although the possibilities for achieving the best sound available are
very good with such complicated players/installs, it can be overwhelming.
I've found that until I get a VERY good grasp of the entire situation, I can
actually make things sound worse by having too MUCH control!! My Eclipse is
nearly identical to your Clarion in this respect, except mine doesn't have a
4th set of outputs (for the sub) like yours does. Mine has outputs for
tweets, mids and midwoofers (or subs...but not both). Of course, I can
control individual xover points, level adjustments and time alignment as
well. I've had it for close to a year now and I'm just finally starting to
settle down with "the sound" that I enjoy the most rather than constantly
having to fidget with all the controls. Overwheming! One of the best
sounding systems I've had was in another vehicle with a Nakamichi head unit
that only had bass, midrange and treble adjustments. Not a single "extra"
like xovers, time alignment, etc. I believe the main difference was speaker
placement (I had my Dyns then as well) and vehicle acoustics (a Ford
Explorer). I've also been seriously considering getting the 9255 as
well...mostly because I want that 4th output for my sub and I quickly got
tired of having to press two separate buttons to swing the faceplate down
and eject the CD. I kind of miss just being able to hit the eject button
and having a CD pop out of a FIXED faceplate.

Tony


Tony


--
2001 Nissan Maxima SE Anniversary Edition
Eclipse CD8454 Head Unit, Phoenix Gold ZX475ti, ZX450 and ZX500 Amplifiers,
Phoenix Gold EQ-232 30-Band EQ, Dynaudio System 360 Tri-Amped In Front and
Focal 130HCs For Rear Fill, 2 Soundstream EXACT10s In Aperiodic Enclosure

2001 Chevy S10 ZR2
Pioneer DEH-P9600MP Head Unit, Phoenix Gold Ti500.4 Amp, Focal 165HC
Speakers & Image Dynamics ID8 D4 v.3 Sub

[MZ]

> Eddie,
>
> Did you use some capacitors inline with your tweeters after you switched
> from using the passive xovers to all active? From what I've learned, the
> capacitors act to limit too much power from getting to the tweeters if
> they're being run straight off the amplifier. There's more to it than
that,
> but that's the gist. I had to replace a pair of my Dynaudio tweeters once
> even with the capacitors because my fingers got happy with my equalizer
one
> day when boosting the high frequencies.

Tony, the capacitors aren't there for limiting power per se. If your active
xovers are functioning properly, the capacitors are invisible. They're
usually installed to protect against accidentally switching off your active
crossover, and also to protect against your amplifier failing and throwing a
large amount of DC on its output. But I guess that would be useful for most
speakers, assuming you can find a cap that gives you a large enough
capacitance so that the rolloff begins at a much lower frequency than what
the active xover is set to but a small enough inductive reactance to
guarantee that it won't be attenuating your highs either!

I also like the idea of fuses instead. Although, there's some evidence that
they introduce distortion, especially at low frequencies, but I suspect it's
quite minor (Douglas Self claims it's on the order of .001% or
something...). Anyway, neither option is necessary or even standard
practice.

<snip>
> One of the best
> sounding systems I've had was in another vehicle with a Nakamichi head
unit
> that only had bass, midrange and treble adjustments. Not a single "extra"
> like xovers, time alignment, etc. I believe the main difference was
speaker
> placement (I had my Dyns then as well) and vehicle acoustics (a Ford
> Explorer).

Yeah, that's usually the way it goes. Sometimes we forget just how
important it is to stress that the vehicle itself probably plays a greater
role than the equipment, crossover settings, etc. And as you've been
pointing out in some of your recent posts, front speaker mounting location
is of the utmost importance.

[EddieM]

> Tony F wrote
>
>
>
> Eddie,
>
> Did you use some capacitors inline with your tweeters after you switched
> from using the passive xovers to all active? From what I've learned, the
> capacitors act to limit too much power from getting to the tweeters if
> they're being run straight off the amplifier. There's more to it than that,
> but that's the gist. I had to replace a pair of my Dynaudio tweeters once
> even with the capacitors because my fingers got happy with my equalizer one
> day when boosting the high frequencies.


I was anticipating the load interaction between the tweeters and the main
amp early on. Any aspiring car audio fancier worthy of their salt would see
the smoke miles away. I'm no techie but I configured my amp to put out
100w X4 @ 4 ohm so, I adjusted the output level at min. before connection.

Let me just add that the occational crackles I hear on that one tweeter
has been there for some time now (1 year +) but somehow, I thought all
along it was due to my CDRs. I was just inattentive to isolate the cause.

In a way, I was glad to know why I sometimes repel the sound produced
in my car. BTW, yesterday and today, I hear a huge THUD! throughout the
speakers each time I power off the HU. What does this foretell ? I have
disconnected all the power and I'll find out more later on... I hope.



> I've also been seriously considering getting the 9255 as well...mostly
> because I want that 4th output for my sub and I quickly got tired of having
> to press two separate buttons to swing the faceplate down and eject the CD.
> I kind of miss just being able to hit the eject button and having a CD pop
> out of a FIXED faceplate.

Eclipse have solid reputation and I came to realize this from asking
the dealers and buyers while shopping for HUs weeks ago. I'm sure
you'll get a better part of your expenses should you decide to sell and
switch.

[EddieM]

> Tony F wrote
>
>
>
> "Tony, I see you have Dynaudio and Focal in your touring widget. What can
> be said more about these two warbling serenader ?"
>
> The Dynaudios are just great. I've had them for so long that they are JUST
> the way they are, you know? It's been so long since I've had anything else
> that it's hard to compare them. All I know is that all low or high volume
> they absolutely ROCK.
>
> I have the lowest of the line of Focal coaxials as rear fill in my Maxima
> and then also some as my main speakers in my S10. I have to say they are
> the best coaxials I have ever heard and they actually sound much better than
> many component sets I have listened to. Plus, they were MUCH less expensive
> than the others. Not too many people that I've spoken to have ever owned
> any which makes me feel really special. ;-)
>
> Tony


Thanks. Sounds like two outstanding performer. I shall look into their
2-way components.