Top 500...Top 700 Non-Classic Rock Countdown

[Jonathan Wolfson]

I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
email at if you want modification rights.

-Jonathan Wolfson

[dave weil]

On 23 Jun 2005 20:45:13 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" >
wrote:

>I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
>it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
>For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
>email at if you want modification rights.
>
>-Jonathan Wolfson

Just curious about what the concept here is. Is it a list of songs
that in a right and just universe would be what you would hear on a
"hits" station, a list of the "best" of what modern music has to
offer, or something else?

I'm having an easy time with most of the artists that you've chosen
but a REALLY hard time with the songs represented.

And is there a time frame that you're trying to stay within?

PS, it's "Istanbul (not Constantinople)"

[Jonathan Wolfson]

It is a list of the best of what modern music has to offer, with an
emphasis on modern rock/indie/alternative music, because I believe that
to be the 90's-00's version of classic rock; classic rock in the 60's
and 70's had Beatles, Rolling Stones, Who, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd,
and rock/indie/alternative in the 90's-00's has Beck, Radiohead, Dave
Matthews Band, U2, Nirvana. There is less of an emphasis on grunge (I
label it Alternative Hard Rock), and also less of an emphasis on
Techno/Trance, and also less of an emphasis on 80's music, but those
are considerably represented as well. I am only doing post 1979, with
an emphasis on late 90's and 00's.

dave weil wrote:
> On 23 Jun 2005 20:45:13 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" >
> wrote:
>
> >I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
> >it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
> >For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
> >email at if you want modification rights.
> >
> >-Jonathan Wolfson
>
> Just curious about what the concept here is. Is it a list of songs
> that in a right and just universe would be what you would hear on a
> "hits" station, a list of the "best" of what modern music has to
> offer, or something else?
>
> I'm having an easy time with most of the artists that you've chosen
> but a REALLY hard time with the songs represented.
>
> And is there a time frame that you're trying to stay within?
>
> PS, it's "Istanbul (not Constantinople)"

[dave weil]

On 24 Jun 2005 07:00:02 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" >
wrote:

>It is a list of the best of what modern music has to offer, with an
>emphasis on modern rock/indie/alternative music, because I believe that
>to be the 90's-00's version of classic rock; classic rock in the 60's
>and 70's had Beatles, Rolling Stones, Who, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd,
>and rock/indie/alternative in the 90's-00's has Beck, Radiohead, Dave
>Matthews Band, U2, Nirvana. There is less of an emphasis on grunge (I
>label it Alternative Hard Rock), and also less of an emphasis on
>Techno/Trance, and also less of an emphasis on 80's music, but those
>are considerably represented as well. I am only doing post 1979, with
>an emphasis on late 90's and 00's.
>
>dave weil wrote:
>> On 23 Jun 2005 20:45:13 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
>> >it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
>> >For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
>> >email at if you want modification rights.
>> >
>> >-Jonathan Wolfson
>>
>> Just curious about what the concept here is. Is it a list of songs
>> that in a right and just universe would be what you would hear on a
>> "hits" station, a list of the "best" of what modern music has to
>> offer, or something else?
>>
>> I'm having an easy time with most of the artists that you've chosen
>> but a REALLY hard time with the songs represented.
>>
>> And is there a time frame that you're trying to stay within?
>>
>> PS, it's "Istanbul (not Constantinople)"

Thanks for the clarification.

While I think the intent is good, I think that it's somewhat flawed
(but that's the nature of these lists, right?)

For instance, choosing Veronica for the sole Elvis Costello song as
"the best of what modern music has to offer" seems *to me* to be a bit
of a "well, I've got to put a song from him on the list because he's
'influential' and this one at least got played on the radio" sort of
thing.

Or choosing the two TMBG songs that you did seems a little bit easy,
although Birdhouse would have probably been one of mine, Ana Eng seems
to be a better choice than Istanbul, for two reasons. First of all,
it's well-known enough to be a classic on its own, *and* it's a bridge
between the "new wave" of the late 70s/early 80s and "modern music" as
you've defined it. And of course, there are probably a dozen songs by
them that would trump some of your selections as "the best that modern
music has to offer".

Personally, putting the White Stripes song as number one is, for me,
pretty contestable. Of course, I'm not a yooge White Stripes fan (you
seem to be, which is cool), but there ya go. They certainly belong on
the list.

Maybe I missed it, but New Order only coming in at 660??!!!?? And only
one song???!! Without them, you have to remove at least a dozen groups
who probably wouldn't have their sound without New Order. And I'd
suggest that Portishead's Sour Times deserves to be AT LEAST top 30,
if not top 10. But that's a matter of personal taste, tempered with
the fact that it's almost undeniable that the song was a major
influence. I'm glad you ranked them as high as you did, but out of the
top 100? That's a hard pill to swallow.

I guess this is what the reader input is for, eh? That was a clever
idea. Hopefully, you'll generate some really good input from
knowledgable folks, although I suspect it's going to be messy.

Also, it's "There She Goes" by the Las. "There She Goes Again" is a
song by the Velvet Underground.

I congratulate you on picking a lot of less obvious and more obscure
artists, but I'd suggest that with 700 choices, it's easier to choose
a REALLY great list of songs (not artists) than if you limited it to
100, and I think you fell into a "got to fill a slot" sort of
mentality, and also, "I've got to get this artist somewhere on the
list" sort of thing.. With fewer choices, you have to be REALLY
selective and I think that without that sort of stricture, you sort of
spiralled off a bit.

I hope you take this as the constructive criticism that I intend.

And yes, I'll probably make some suggestions through the web site when
I have the chance.

[Jonathan Wolfson]

It will soon be modifyable- right now only my IP is recognized, so I am
the only one who can do data maintenance on it. It runs on my server,
so when my PC is off it will be a broken link. I will add
login/password functionality to allow external users to modify it. What
is your opinion about providing links to these songs as mp3's? Will
this get me sued for lots of money? What if I make this a hidden
feature?

[dave weil]

On 24 Jun 2005 09:47:45 -0700, "Jonathan Wolfson" >
wrote:

>It will soon be modifyable- right now only my IP is recognized, so I am
>the only one who can do data maintenance on it. It runs on my server,
>so when my PC is off it will be a broken link. I will add
>login/password functionality to allow external users to modify it. What
>is your opinion about providing links to these songs as mp3's? Will
>this get me sued for lots of money?

You'll probably be asked to remove them first, if you don't get
permission. If you link to a legal source, I'm not sure what their
rights would be, unless they expressly forbid such links. However, I
suspect that most MP3s that you offer would be from pirate sources.

> What if I make this a hidden feature?

Doesn't matter. All it will do is keep most people from knowing that
such a feature exists in the first place, and if you disclose this,
then it's likely that you'll be contacted. What you MIGHT do is
contact the bands or responsible parties one by one and ask for
permission to link them. If you can generate enough demonstratable
hits, they might offer you the MP3s, although I wouldn't hold my
breath. I'd suspect that you'll get SOME positive responses though.

[Margaret von B.]

"Jonathan Wolfson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
> it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
> For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
> email at if you want modification rights.
>
> -Jonathan Wolfson
>

In principle, I really applaud your effort. :-)

But all those White Stripes songs simply don't belong there and I cannot get
past the feeling that this is some publicity stunt.


Cheers,

Margaret

[dave weil]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:54:11 GMT, "Margaret von B."
> wrote:

>
>"Jonathan Wolfson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
>> it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
>> For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
>> email at if you want modification rights.
>>
>> -Jonathan Wolfson
>>
>
>In principle, I really applaud your effort. :-)
>
>But all those White Stripes songs simply don't belong there and I cannot get
>past the feeling that this is some publicity stunt.
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>Margaret

I'm guessing that he's a big fan. Nothing wrong with that.

I didn't see any Squeeze songs on there either (I might have missed
them), although there are plenty of groups influenced by them on the
list, groups like Fountains of Wayne, who you might see wearing a
Squeeze-related t-shirt on Conan O'Brien tonight (it's possible that
the lead guy will be wearing a One More for the Road T-shirt, which is
a T-shirt for a Glenn Tilbrook indie movie).

He needs some Cotton Mather songs on there as well ,g>.

[Margaret von B.]

"dave weil" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 18:54:11 GMT, "Margaret von B."
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jonathan Wolfson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>>>I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
>>> it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
>>> For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
>>> email at if you want modification rights.
>>>
>>> -Jonathan Wolfson
>>>
>>
>>In principle, I really applaud your effort. :-)
>>
>>But all those White Stripes songs simply don't belong there and I cannot
>>get
>>past the feeling that this is some publicity stunt.
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Margaret
>
> I'm guessing that he's a big fan. Nothing wrong with that.
>

You're right of course. I just think that White Stripes is like Elvis
Costello or Woody Allen. Many people are downright afraid to admit that they
don't recognize the genius in them. I'm hung over from the victory party
anyway and simply took a long weekend along with 100,000 of my closest
friends....


> I didn't see any Squeeze songs on there either (I might have missed
> them), although there are plenty of groups influenced by them on the
> list, groups like Fountains of Wayne, who you might see wearing a
> Squeeze-related t-shirt on Conan O'Brien tonight (it's possible that
> the lead guy will be wearing a One More for the Road T-shirt, which is
> a T-shirt for a Glenn Tilbrook indie movie).
>
> He needs some Cotton Mather songs on there as well ,g>.
>

I'll have to copy the list to Excel to sort it all out.


Cheers,

Margaret

[dave weil]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:14:47 +0100, Signal > wrote:

>"dave weil" emitted :
>
>>>>I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -
>>>> it is a Non-Classic Rock Top Countdown, since no one seems to do this.
>>>> For those who know tons about modern music, feel free to shoot me an
>>>> email at if you want modification rights.
>>>>
>>>> -Jonathan Wolfson
>>>>
>>>
>>>In principle, I really applaud your effort. :-)
>>>
>>>But all those White Stripes songs simply don't belong there and I cannot get
>>>past the feeling that this is some publicity stunt.
>>>
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Margaret
>>
>>I'm guessing that he's a big fan. Nothing wrong with that.
>>
>>I didn't see any Squeeze songs on there either (I might have missed
>>them), although there are plenty of groups influenced by them on the
>>list, groups like Fountains of Wayne, who you might see wearing a
>>Squeeze-related t-shirt on Conan O'Brien tonight (it's possible that
>>the lead guy will be wearing a One More for the Road T-shirt, which is
>>a T-shirt for a Glenn Tilbrook indie movie).
>>
>>He needs some Cotton Mather songs on there as well ,g>.
>
>Not a single track by The Fall. Cannot be right. Nor Cocteau Twins,
>Smiths... Nuff said....

But there's a Corrs song on it <g>.

[dave weil]

On Fri, 24 Jun 2005 20:41:29 +0100, Signal > wrote:

>"dave weil" emitted :
>
>>But there's a Corrs song on it <g>.
>
>I quite like The Corrs, actually.

You'd just like to be part of a Corrs' sandwich.

> Andrea is terrific, even though she
>has a somewhat bulbous forehead. The music is rubbish, of course.

Of course. It leaves me breathless...

[Jonathan Wolfson]

I'll explain why I did it: Computer programming is a professional
pleasure of mine. Right now I am studying to be Microsoft .net
certified, so it is practice writing code and using databases to store
the info. And music is a personal pleasure of mine. So this countdown
has been an obsession recently and fuses two of my passions. I always
like to enumerate and to categorize things. I have been that way since
I was five when I refused to watch an episode of Sesame Street unless I
saw the serial number at the beginning. In 1992 I made a classic rock
Top 500 on 23 cassettes, so in the digital age it is more exciting to
make countdowns.

-Jonathan

[Jonathan Wolfson]

You can sort it by clicking on the columns.

[ScottW]

Jonathan Wolfson wrote:
> It is a list of the best of what modern music has to offer,


Swing and fouled off with nothing from prolific artists like Peter
Gabriel or any 90's prog from Spocks Beard, Transatlantic or After
Crying.

I think you waste too many slots on songs that don't add anything to
the list... just repitions of music of a style and quality that is more
than already well represented. It's half the best of modern music and
half the top 700 countdown.

Still interesting to survey so thanks.

ScottW

[jeffc]

"Jonathan Wolfson" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I made not a Top 500 but a Top 700, at http://www.jonathanwolfson.com -

Frankly, this looks like a list of "look at all the alternative-type bands I
can name and all the not-very-well-known-songs-from-them, which is cool".
Sorry, just the way it reads to me :-)