Macintosh and audio live performance

[Horacio]

I have always seen, in live music, that musicians like dj's and rockers and
so many others, tend to use macintosh laptops to produce music. But I have
never seen this people using pc laptops.

I think that the reason is the macintosh software because there are some
programas only available for mac and not for pc, but I hesitate this. Is it
the reason for the preference of musicians for macintosh laptops the
software or the stability or the operating system ? Perhaps a laptop pc with
windows could "hung", but could a laptop pc with linux and audio software be
as good as a macintosh ?


Thanks !

[Todd H.]

"Horacio" > writes:
> I have always seen, in live music, that musicians like dj's and rockers and
> so many others, tend to use macintosh laptops to produce music. But I have
> never seen this people using pc laptops.

>
> I think that the reason is the macintosh software because there are some
> programas only available for mac and not for pc, but I hesitate this. Is it
> the reason for the preference of musicians for macintosh laptops the
> software or the stability or the operating system ?

It is for me. I've DJ'd using my iBook with iTunes and a PC running
win2k. I don't do this for a living, and in the 3 weddings I've
DJ'd for, I managed to have a program lock up on the PC (but
thankfully kept playing the tune) and I've never had so much as a
whimper of an issue with the iBook and iTunes. And my iBook is
friggin 5 years old.

You can take this as balanced advice because I'm far from a Mac
zealot, and use PC's for most of my real job work.

> Perhaps a laptop pc with windows could "hung", but could a laptop pc
> with linux and audio software be as good as a macintosh ?

Possibly if you restrict your needs to digital audio playback. I
restrict that because audio playback is pretty mature and nearly
everyone is doing it. Rich multimedia creation software under Linux
though--there isn't a huge audience there, so the experience base of
monkeys banging on keyboards finding all bugs in available software
just isn't there on Linux, while media creators are doing an awful lot
of that on Macs (and PC's too).

The achilles heel of the PC for stability is typically Windows and its
apps, and its device drivers. You're likely to have a more stable
experience comparing *nix to *nix, so a PC running Linux is likely to
be more comparable to the stability of a Mac (which is BSD UNIX under
the covers).

The other issue worth mentioning here is that stability is easier to
attain on a Mac because there is far less hardware for anyone to worry
about, and device drivers aren't the headache they are in the PC
world. This is one benefit of having fewer 3rd party suppliers
(although it comes at the cost of things being a little more
expensive).

Best Regards,
--
/"\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Todd H
\ / | http://www.toddh.net/
X Promoting good netiquette | http://triplethreatband.com/
/ \ http://www.toddh.net/netiquette/ | "4 lines suffice."

[EADGBE]

Believe me, I do *NOT* mean to sound like a Mac snob, but, at least in
my experience, the reason I chose the Mac over the PC was, in fact, the
stability of the operating system.

I AM NOT TRYING TO START A FLAME WAR OR DEBATE ABOUT MAC VS. PC!!! I
am simply stating why I personally chose the Mac over the PC. When I
decided to computerize my studio, two factors helped me make my
decision:

1) The overwhelming prevalence of Macs over PCs in the professional
audio/video production world. All of those different people must know
something!

2) My own friends' problems using PCs for audio recording. I kept
hearing about crash after crash, as well as other time-consuming
technical difficulties. Of course, I must add that there is a distinct
possibility that the computers they are using are simply not powerful
enough; I must confess I do not know exactly what configurations they
are using. I am fully aware that there ARE PCs who can easily handle
the most demanding audio/video work, but amongst my circle of friends,
nobody I know seems to have one. And I have to say that I have yet to
experience a crash with my G5! (*knock on wood*)

[Scott Dorsey]

EADGBE > wrote:
>Believe me, I do *NOT* mean to sound like a Mac snob, but, at least in
>my experience, the reason I chose the Mac over the PC was, in fact, the
>stability of the operating system.

You know what is REALLY stable? Actual instruments. Sure, a fiddle goes
out of tune and you have to rosin it up all the time, but I never saw one
of them crash in the middle of a performance with a stack trace on the
screen. And it sounds good too. Yeah, guitars break strings now and then,
but it's field-replaceable. I've even seen Les Paul play on four strings
while replacing the fifth one at the same time.

People get all het up about computers here in rec.audio.pro. But frankly
if you want something stable and reliable for live performances, you
should consider musical instruments instead. (Admittedly musicians are
not always stable and reliable, but I don't see software being the
solution to that either).
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[philicorda]

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 07:45:08 -0700, EADGBE wrote:

> Believe me, I do *NOT* mean to sound like a Mac snob, but, at least in
> my experience, the reason I chose the Mac over the PC was, in fact, the
> stability of the operating system.
>
> I AM NOT TRYING TO START A FLAME WAR OR DEBATE ABOUT MAC VS. PC!!! I
> am simply stating why I personally chose the Mac over the PC. When I
> decided to computerize my studio, two factors helped me make my
> decision:
>
> 1) The overwhelming prevalence of Macs over PCs in the professional
> audio/video production world. All of those different people must know
> something!
>
> 2) My own friends' problems using PCs for audio recording. I kept
> hearing about crash after crash, as well as other time-consuming
> technical difficulties. Of course, I must add that there is a distinct
> possibility that the computers they are using are simply not powerful
> enough; I must confess I do not know exactly what configurations they
> are using. I am fully aware that there ARE PCs who can easily handle
> the most demanding audio/video work, but amongst my circle of friends,
> nobody I know seems to have one. And I have to say that I have yet to
> experience a crash with my G5! (*knock on wood*)

In my experience it does not matter if you use Mac, Windows, Linux or
an AtariST in live performance. The most reliable system is whichever one
you have spent time testing and retesting in rehearsal, and made
absolutely sure works as perfectly as possible.

There is no reason it will suddenly become less reliable just because
there is an audience.

I just finished a three month tour with a Carillon rack mounted PC running
Ableton as part of the rig. We had no glitches or crashes or mechanical
problems at all.

The software on it has not been changed or updated in almost any way since
the machine was purchased. (And that's part of the secret to reliable
computers, particularly with Windows, don't fiddle! :).

Windows PCs can be a nightmare for some people, but there are two main
reasons.. either they are using a big pile of cracked software or they
enjoy playing with music software more than they enjoy making music, so
reliability is not their priority.

[Kurt Albershardt]

EADGBE wrote:
>
> 1) The overwhelming prevalence of Macs over PCs in the professional
> audio/video production world.

This just isn't true any more.




> 2) My own friends' problems using PCs for audio recording. I kept
> hearing about crash after crash, as well as other time-consuming
> technical difficulties.

Yes, there is plenty of that. Chalk it up (mostly) to the huge hardware
diversity -- as others have mentioned.

[George Gleason]

"Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
...
> EADGBE wrote:
> >
> > 1) The overwhelming prevalence of Macs over PCs in the professional
> > audio/video production world.
>
> This just isn't true any more.

my mac g4 was leftn the pavment and run over by a truck last weekend
I am hesitant to invest in a new mac before the intel chipsets are in use
and debugged
so I bout a IM thinkpad(used) and I can not even begin to describe how much
harder it is to use than the mac for live audio applications
I am glad I only spent 400$ on it, including a clean instal of wndz 2000 pro
but asap I will be going back to mac
they just simply kick pc ass for everything I do(except invoicing)
ymmv
George

[philcycles]

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> EADGBE > wrote:
> >Believe me, I do *NOT* mean to sound like a Mac snob, but, at least in
> >my experience, the reason I chose the Mac over the PC was, in fact, the
> >stability of the operating system.
>
> You know what is REALLY stable? Actual instruments. Sure, a fiddle goes
> out of tune and you have to rosin it up all the time, but I never saw one
> of them crash in the middle of a performance with a stack trace on the
> screen. And it sounds good too.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Oh Scott. I surmise that you've never seen a Celtic band playing on St.
Patrick's Day. I've seen plenty of fiddle players lock up.
Phil Brown

[Noah Roberts]

Horacio wrote:
> I have always seen, in live music, that musicians like dj's and rockers and
> so many others, tend to use macintosh laptops to produce music. But I have
> never seen this people using pc laptops.
>
> I think that the reason is the macintosh software because there are some
> programas only available for mac and not for pc, but I hesitate this. Is it
> the reason for the preference of musicians for macintosh laptops the
> software or the stability or the operating system ? Perhaps a laptop pc with
> windows could "hung", but could a laptop pc with linux and audio software be
> as good as a macintosh ?

I have some experience with Linux audio. If you were to better spell
out your requirements it would be easier to tell if Linux will do what
you need.

[Kurt Albershardt]

George Gleason wrote:
> "Kurt Albershardt" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> EADGBE wrote:
>>
>>> The overwhelming prevalence of Macs over PCs in the professional
>>> audio/video production world.
>>
>> This just isn't true any more.
>
>
> my mac g4 was leftn the pavment and run over by a truck last weekend

Sorry to hear that.



> I am hesitant to invest in a new mac before the intel chipsets are in use
> and debugged

Aha - the Osbornization begins...




> I bought a IM thinkpad(used) and I can not even begin to describe how much
> harder it is to use than the mac for live audio applications

IMO this still depends more on the application and the individual PC
hardware more than it does on the OS.

Note my comment was not as to which was better per se but about the
prevalence of the two.

[Dimitrios Tzortzakakis]

I am running win2k for 15 months on a 2.4 GHz celeron without any
problem.IMHO the difference between a mac and a pc is that the mac comes
with a typical, standard configuration while the pc user can choose from
dozens of manufacturers of motherboards, hard disks, etc.(only two for
processors).And for windows there are millions of applications, I even have
japanese on my computer,and the price is low for pcs, mine cost only 700
euro.
celeron 2.4 GHz
QDI P4 848 i
hitachi deskstar 80 GB 7200 rpm
Pixelview geforce 4 mx 440 agp 8x 64 MB ddr
512 MB DDR
miro 17 " CRT
LG cd-rom
teac cd r/w
maxball keybo+mouse black
floppy
lexmark z605 inkjet
braintrust 300 W case
win 2000 greek
autocad r14
I even run doom 3 @ 1024X768@ high
so you see I am also a professional user

--
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios
major in electrical engineering, freelance electrician
FH von Iraklion-Kreta, freiberuflicher Elektriker
dimtzort AT otenet DOT gr
? "Noah Roberts" > ?????? ??? ??????
oups.com...
>
>
> Horacio wrote:
> > I have always seen, in live music, that musicians like dj's and rockers
and
> > so many others, tend to use macintosh laptops to produce music. But I
have
> > never seen this people using pc laptops.
> >
> > I think that the reason is the macintosh software because there are some
> > programas only available for mac and not for pc, but I hesitate this. Is
it
> > the reason for the preference of musicians for macintosh laptops the
> > software or the stability or the operating system ? Perhaps a laptop pc
with
> > windows could "hung", but could a laptop pc with linux and audio
software be
> > as good as a macintosh ?
>
> I have some experience with Linux audio. If you were to better spell
> out your requirements it would be easier to tell if Linux will do what
> you need.
>

[philicorda]

On Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:36:10 -0400, Dana Larsen wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 17:18:47 +0000, philicorda wrote:
>
>
>> In my experience it does not matter if you use Mac, Windows, Linux or
>> an AtariST in live performance. The most reliable system is whichever one
>> you have spent time testing and retesting in rehearsal, and made
>> absolutely sure works as perfectly as possible.
>
> Good advice!
>
>> There is no reason it will suddenly become less reliable just because
>> there is an audience.
>
> In theory yes, but you know how it goes. The gremlins always seem to wake
> up when they have an audience.

I put a little strip of gaffa across the front of the rack so the computer
can't see what's going on. Fools it into thinking it's just a rehearsal.

> Ask Bill Gates about his various live *performances* which seem to crash
> more than they should.

The main problem with Windows for me is that it's very difficult to
troubleshoot on location if it does go wrong. You either need an internet
connection or some way of re-installing/reimaging back to a working
config. If the apps require challenge/response authentication and you
don't have a disk image then it's a day of entering serial numbers on line
as well.

I've been lucky so far. I feel happier troubleshooting on Linux systems
where things are a bit more modular and tweakable though.

>> I just finished a three month tour with a Carillon
>>rack mounted PC
>> running Ableton as part of the rig. We had no glitches or crashes or
>> mechanical problems at all.
>
> Same here.
> I used a carefully built and selected franken-computer installed in a
> rack system (Windows XP).
> It ran like a champ.
>> The software on it has not been changed or updated in almost any way
>> since the machine was purchased. (And that's part of the secret to
>> reliable computers, particularly with Windows, don't fiddle! :).
>
> If it ain't broke..........
>
>> Windows PCs can be a nightmare for some people, but there are two main
>> reasons.. either they are using a big pile of cracked software or they
>> enjoy playing with music software more than they enjoy making music, so
>> reliability is not their priority.
>
> OMG YES!!!
> I've set up systems for other musicians and invariably six months down
> the road I get "the call". My system is slow, unstable, crashes etc.
> Without exception it's generally due to tons of garbage software that
> the person has added to the system.

Every time. I resorted to restricted user accounts and password
protection on bios/admin for an eight computer music tuition room running
win2k. The people I set it up for called me a year later, asking for the
passwords. I'd given the passwords to them originally, but they had not
recognised their importance and promptly lost them all. It was nice they
had not needed admin passwords for a year, but also a pain as I did not
have the passwords either. :)

> Fortunately I keep an image of the original load so it's a quick fix but
> some people just don't get it.
> Oddly enough I have one friend who plays keys and just leaves the thing
> alone because it works for him.

I have a mac owning friend who when asked what computer he had, just
stared blankly and said 'the one that comes with digital performer.'. :)

> He is a stock broker by day and the SEC has very stiff rules about
> software installed on traders pc's so he needs 5 levels of management
> approval to install anything not company approved. They've trained him
> well!

[Steffen Kluge]

Horacio wrote:
> I have always seen, in live music, that musicians like dj's and rockers and
> so many others, tend to use macintosh laptops to produce music. But I have
> never seen this people using pc laptops.

I second that. My favourite female musician (who's neither a DJ nor a
rocker, and requested not to be named here) can be seen frequently
(during live concerts) to kneel down centre stage in front of some Apple
laptop and type something before the next song starts.

> Is it
> the reason for the preference of musicians for macintosh laptops the
> software or the stability or the operating system ?

As much as I'd like to believe that, my experience with Mac OS X
stability has been rather dismal. Not wanting her to use Redmond OS I
put my wife onto OS X five years ago, and boy, what a ride. I wonder
whether my unnamed favourite female artist ever encountered the beach
ball of death mid concert. Maybe pro's are using OS 9...

> Perhaps a laptop pc with
> windows could "hung", but could a laptop pc with linux and audio software be
> as good as a macintosh ?

I'll say, from the stability standpoint at least. Though it seems audio
quality/versatility isn't a forté of Linux, yet.

Cheers
Steffen.