Speakers for an awkward room

[Matt Silberstein]

I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
side.

Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

[Robert Morein]

"Matt Silberstein" > wrote in
message ...
> I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
> a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
> side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
> side.
>
> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)
>
You can still get good sound if you're willing to listen near field, which
means, pull up a chair. When in the near field, room anomalies have minimal
effect.
Certain speakers maintain coherency at close listening distances, while
others fall apart.
The Kef Uni-Q speakers are good at this. So are bookshelf speakers in
general.

[Matt Silberstein]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 10:56:36 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion , "Robert
Morein" > in
> wrote:

>
>"Matt Silberstein" > wrote in
>message ...
>> I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
>> a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
>> side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
>> side.
>>
>> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
>> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
>> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
>> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)
>>
>You can still get good sound if you're willing to listen near field, which
>means, pull up a chair. When in the near field, room anomalies have minimal
>effect.

Near pretty much puts me in front of one speaker or the other. It is
not like I have much of a chance to get away.

>Certain speakers maintain coherency at close listening distances, while
>others fall apart.
>The Kef Uni-Q speakers are good at this. So are bookshelf speakers in
>general.
>
I will almost certainly end up with bookshelf speakers. I have Time
Windows now which have served me well for many years. But they don't
seem to do much in this room and they are larger than I want.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

[Arny Krueger]

Matt Silberstein wrote:

> I have an awkward room, 14x17,

Almost square.

> 6' opening on a short side (leading to a 11x11 room),

The wall on that side is 8' long.

> and the only place to put the speakers in the short side.


Which short side - the one with a 14' wall or the one with
an 8' wall?

>Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other
short side.

Obviously, same question applies.

> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty
good sound for
> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly
worthwhile to
> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end
up sounding
> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)

If you can put the speakers on the side with a 14' wall,
this doesn't seem to be a problematical situation at all.

[Matt Silberstein]

On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:13:16 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion , "Arny
Krueger" > in >
wrote:

>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>
>> I have an awkward room, 14x17,
>
>Almost square.
>
>> 6' opening on a short side (leading to a 11x11 room),
>
>The wall on that side is 8' long.
>
>> and the only place to put the speakers in the short side.
>
>
>Which short side - the one with a 14' wall or the one with
>an 8' wall?

Well, actually I meant long side, not short. That is, the 17' side.

>>Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other
>short side.
>
>Obviously, same question applies.

The windows are opposite the opening side.

>> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty
>good sound for
>> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly
>worthwhile to
>> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end
>up sounding
>> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)
>
>If you can put the speakers on the side with a 14' wall,
>this doesn't seem to be a problematical situation at all.
>
Yeah, I knew that and still wrote it wrong. If I could, I would put
the speakers on the wall with the windows. But there is no reasonable
way to do that.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

[Arny Krueger]

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2005 11:13:16 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion ,
"Arny
> Krueger" > in
>
> wrote:
>
>> Matt Silberstein wrote:
>>
>>> I have an awkward room, 14x17,
>>
>> Almost square.
>>
>>> 6' opening on a short side (leading to a 11x11 room),
>>
>> The wall on that side is 8' long.
>>
>>> and the only place to put the speakers in the short
side.
>>
>>
>> Which short side - the one with a 14' wall or the one
with
>> an 8' wall?
>
> Well, actually I meant long side, not short. That is, the
17' side.


Seems like you have a lot to work with.

My first cut for large speakers would be along the long wall
about 4 feet out of the corners, toed in towards the
listening location which is presumably in the middle of the
room or preferably a few feet back of that.

[[email protected]]

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
> a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
> side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
> side.

You could go with very small speakers mounted on or in the walls or
ceiling. You'd need to run the wiring through the walls or ceiling.

You could add a subwoofer for more bass.

There are plenty of in-wall speakers available from good brands these
days, or you could hang some very small speakers from the walls or
ceiling.

Options such as the above would give you plenty of choices in
locations, while taking up no floor space.

> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)

I'm not qualified to comment on your room's acoustics. I'd go with the
in-wall or mounted speakers myself, because then I could put the
speakers almost anywhere in the room.

I may get flamed for mentioning this brand, but Bose is the most
well-known maker of small speakers that you could hang. You could get
pretty good sound from a Bose Acoustimass-3 speaker set, with the small
speakers hung on your walls or ceiling, and the bass module stuck in a
corner or under something. For example:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=am3_virtuallyinvisible_index&pageName=/home_entertainment/stereo/index.jsp#

Athena, Canton, Energy, Infinity, and Mirage are just a few of the many
fine makers that also make very small speakers you could hang on your
walls or ceiling. No small speaker can deliver much bass, so all of the
above sell matching subwoofers to deliver more bass. These small
speaker/subwoofer systems are sometimes called "satellite/subwoofer"
systems.

I don't have any experience with in-wall speakers, but more and more
good brands offer those also.

Having small speakers mounted on or in your walls and ceiling will not
only save a lot of space and provide a lot of flexibility for you, it
will also look better (IMHO) than using tower speakers or conventional
bookshelf speakers on furniture or speaker stands.

(snip)

[Matt Silberstein]

On 31 May 2005 09:35:12 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion ,
in
. com> wrote:

>
>
>Matt Silberstein wrote:
>> I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
>> a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
>> side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
>> side.
>
>You could go with very small speakers mounted on or in the walls or
>ceiling. You'd need to run the wiring through the walls or ceiling.
>
>You could add a subwoofer for more bass.
>
>There are plenty of in-wall speakers available from good brands these
>days, or you could hang some very small speakers from the walls or
>ceiling.
>
>Options such as the above would give you plenty of choices in
>locations, while taking up no floor space.
>
>> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
>> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
>> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
>> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)
>
>I'm not qualified to comment on your room's acoustics. I'd go with the
>in-wall or mounted speakers myself, because then I could put the
>speakers almost anywhere in the room.
>
>I may get flamed for mentioning this brand, but Bose is the most
>well-known maker of small speakers that you could hang. You could get
>pretty good sound from a Bose Acoustimass-3 speaker set, with the small
>speakers hung on your walls or ceiling, and the bass module stuck in a
>corner or under something. For example:
>
>http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=am3_virtuallyinvisible_index&pageName=/home_entertainment/stereo/index.jsp#
>
>Athena, Canton, Energy, Infinity, and Mirage are just a few of the many
>fine makers that also make very small speakers you could hang on your
>walls or ceiling. No small speaker can deliver much bass, so all of the
>above sell matching subwoofers to deliver more bass. These small
>speaker/subwoofer systems are sometimes called "satellite/subwoofer"
>systems.
>
>I don't have any experience with in-wall speakers, but more and more
>good brands offer those also.
>
>Having small speakers mounted on or in your walls and ceiling will not
>only save a lot of space and provide a lot of flexibility for you, it
>will also look better (IMHO) than using tower speakers or conventional
>bookshelf speakers on furniture or speaker stands.
>
>(snip)

Thanks. I am looking for an opportunity to listen to those. In wall is
not a possibility, but agree that satellite/subwoofer is the way to
go.



--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

[[email protected]]

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> On 31 May 2005 09:35:12 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion ,
> in
> . com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >Matt Silberstein wrote:

(snip)

> Thanks. I am looking for an opportunity to listen to those. In wall is
> not a possibility, but agree that satellite/subwoofer is the way to
> go.

Because of space and looks considerations, I've switched entirely to
satellite/subwoofer speaker systems in my home. I've had bookshelf and
tower speakers that sounded great, but they're too bulky for me and the
better satellite/subwoofer speaker systems are pretty good.

BTW, a possible compromise in sound quality is smallish bookshelf
speakers and a powered sub.

I've vaguely considered in-wall speakers, but that just seems like too
much hassle. Also, I like to change and mess around with my audio gear
every few years, as well as rearrange the furniture, and in-wall
speakers seem a little too permanent for me.

If you're interested in using your gear to watch movies on DVD, there
are some stereo audio systems now that include small speakers and DVD
players. A few examples: the Bose 3 2 1 and JVC EX-A1 systems. There
are a few others out there, I think.

[[email protected]]

Matt Silberstein wrote:
> I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
> a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
> side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
> side.
>
> Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
> music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
> look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
> a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)
>
>
> --
> Matt Silberstein
>
> All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
> a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
> there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
> end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
> or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.



your room is not a problem room at all. Check these out.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1122328378
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1122249297
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1121456657
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1121453821
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1120770772


The Spicas for 250 are insanely excellent for the money.





Scott Wheeler

[Joseph Oberlander]

wrote:

>
> Matt Silberstein wrote:
>
>>I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
>>a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
>>side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
>>side.
>>
>>Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
>>music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
>>look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
>>a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)

Magnepan MMG in white come to mind. Mount them 4-6 inches off
the wall on dowels, like a wall hanging or acoustic treatment.

That's as close to zero footprint as you'll get other than a few
specialty items like art-speakers(4 inches thick, looks like
a painting) or something art-looking like NoRH makes.

As a plus, the MMGs are amazingly good speakers when mated
to a small, fast sub(which you can stow in the corner quite
easily). Stunning clarity and dispersion for background music,
considering their $550 price.

Almost any amplifier will run a pair of these if you don't
run anything else(typical 5.1 amp just running 2 channels)

[[email protected]]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Matt Silberstein wrote:
> >
> >>I have an awkward room, 14x17, 6' opening on a short side (leading to
> >>a 11x11 room), and the only place to put the speakers in the short
> >>side. Oh, and two tall windows with window seats on the other short
> >>side.
> >>
> >>Luckily neither of us want surround sound, just pretty good sound for
> >>music. Space is obviously a premium. Is it particularly worthwhile to
> >>look for really good speakers or is anything going to end up sounding
> >>a bit noisy? (And, of course, price is a consideration.)
>
> Magnepan MMG in white come to mind.



A very good speaker for the money but you must have missed this
exchange earlier in the thread.

"Certain speakers maintain coherency at close listening distances,
while others fall apart. The Kef Uni-Q speakers are good at this. So
are bookshelf speakers in general."


"I will almost certainly end up with bookshelf speakers. I have Time
Windows now which have served me well for many years. But they don't
seem to do much in this room and they are larger than I want."




--
Mount them 4-6 inches off
> the wall on dowels, like a wall hanging or acoustic treatment.



That'll make sound like crap.




>
> That's as close to zero footprint as you'll get other than a few
> specialty items like art-speakers(4 inches thick, looks like
> a painting) or something art-looking like NoRH makes.



Have you been taking lessons from Pinkerton in the placement of dipole
speakers?





>
> As a plus, the MMGs are amazingly good speakers when mated
> to a small, fast sub(which you can stow in the corner quite
> easily). Stunning clarity and dispersion for background music,
> considering their $550 price.
>
> Almost any amplifier will run a pair of these if you don't
> run anything else(typical 5.1 amp just running 2 channels)



Just don't put them against the walls!




Scott Wheeler

[Joseph Oberlander]

wrote:

> "Certain speakers maintain coherency at close listening distances,
> while others fall apart. The Kef Uni-Q speakers are good at this. So
> are bookshelf speakers in general."

Maggies are fine close-up. Their huge radiating area also
means that they play quite well at lower volumes. OF course,
they aren't Tannoy's dual-concentrics...

> "I will almost certainly end up with bookshelf speakers. I have Time
> Windows now which have served me well for many years. But they don't
> seem to do much in this room and they are larger than I want."

So he needs in-wall or near zero footprint. UNfortunately,
small booksehlf speakers have all of the problems that he
seems to have problems with.

I mentioned an alternative that he may not have thought of.

http://artcousticusa.com/productdetails_artwork.asp
Here is the other, if a bit pricey. They actually sound
pretty decent, though. A smart person, of course, would
just buy the artwork and make a frame for the MMG. Presto -
instant clone for a fraction of the price.

>
>
>
> --
> Mount them 4-6 inches off
>
>>the wall on dowels, like a wall hanging or acoustic treatment.
> That'll make sound like crap.

So says you. Compared to a smaller bookshelf speaker, any
flat-panel will sound better in his situation. Flat or
in-wall. I know which alternative sounds best of the two.

> Have you been taking lessons from Pinkerton in the placement of dipole
> speakers?

He obviously has major problems to deal with, hence his
asking for a potential solution. Me, though, I'd get a big
pair of NoRH speakers in synthetic marble and place them on
a nice pedistal or stand. Instant artwork and good sound.

Remember - a large round object takes up less "space"
visually than a smaller square one as humans have a problem
psychologically with square-ish objects. They feel larger
than they really are.

http://www.norh.com/products/sm/index.html
This sort of thing could SO work for his room. For $1000,
the 6.9 SM are beautiful, low footprint for their size, and
go down to 40hz, making a seperate sub a minor concern.

I really like the celedon green myself
http://www.norh.com/products/sm/sm6_9green2.jpg
Blue with a stand also looks great.
http://www.norh.com/products/sm/blue6_9_3.jpg

Of course, if they are too large, he can always back off
a "notch": http://www.norh.com/products/norh5/index.html
This is quite small and can be had in synthetic marble.
Real marble is a bit fragile and expensive. The synthetic
stuff is like Corian. Nothing short of dropping it hard
or taking a hammer to it will hurt it.

Lower footprint, good sound, and high WAF.

>>As a plus, the MMGs are amazingly good speakers when mated
>>to a small, fast sub(which you can stow in the corner quite
>>easily). Stunning clarity and dispersion for background music,
>>considering their $550 price.
>>
>>Almost any amplifier will run a pair of these if you don't
>>run anything else(typical 5.1 amp just running 2 channels)
>
>
>
>
> Just don't put them against the walls!

He also could get a pair of MMG-W. They have piano hinges
on one side so that you can swing them out from the wall into
proper playing position. They require a sub, though.

[[email protected]]

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > "Certain speakers maintain coherency at close listening distances,
> > while others fall apart. The Kef Uni-Q speakers are good at this. So
> > are bookshelf speakers in general."
>
> Maggies are fine close-up. Their huge radiating area also
> means that they play quite well at lower volumes.


Yes. I totally agree with this. But I suspect the probelm is that this
is not a dedicated listening room. I get the feeling that there are
furniture issues. Bookshelf speakers excel in this situation.



OF course,
> they aren't Tannoy's dual-concentrics...
>
> > "I will almost certainly end up with bookshelf speakers. I have Time
> > Windows now which have served me well for many years. But they don't
> > seem to do much in this room and they are larger than I want."
>
> So he needs in-wall or near zero footprint. UNfortunately,
> small booksehlf speakers have all of the problems that he
> seems to have problems with.


Not at all. They are easy to move they are not as easily affected by
things like coffee tables and other furniture.




>
> I mentioned an alternative that he may not have thought of.


An alternative that simply needs a lot of breathing room. something I
don't think his room will have. Hey if he can acomidate them fine. I
just doubt that the Maggies offer a solution if the KEFs were a
problem.



>
> http://artcousticusa.com/productdetails_artwork.asp
> Here is the other, if a bit pricey. They actually sound
> pretty decent, though. A smart person, of course, would
> just buy the artwork and make a frame for the MMG. Presto -
> instant clone for a fraction of the price.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Mount them 4-6 inches off
> >
> >>the wall on dowels, like a wall hanging or acoustic treatment.
> > That'll make sound like crap.
>
> So says you.


So says me and the designers and manufacturers of just about every
dipole speaker ever made.



Compared to a smaller bookshelf speaker, any
> flat-panel will sound better in his situation.



Wrong.




Flat or
> in-wall. I know which alternative sounds best of the two.


What are you tralking about here? We are talking about bookshelf
speakers in a multipurpose room v. dipoles in a multipurpose room. You
are proposing he put dipoles against a wall. Bad idea. May as well get
Bose if you want to sound smeared like that.




>
> > Have you been taking lessons from Pinkerton in the placement of dipole
> > speakers?
>
> He obviously has major problems to deal with,


Pinkerton? I agree. But what is the cure for chronic asshole syndrome?



hence his
> asking for a potential solution. Me, though, I'd get a big
> pair of NoRH speakers in synthetic marble and place them on
> a nice pedistal or stand. Instant artwork and good sound.
>
> Remember - a large round object takes up less "space"
> visually than a smaller square one as humans have a problem
> psychologically with square-ish objects. They feel larger
> than they really are.


Yeah..... this is the help he is looking for. I get the jokes but will
the original poster?





>
> http://www.norh.com/products/sm/index.html
> This sort of thing could SO work for his room. For $1000,
> the 6.9 SM are beautiful, low footprint for their size, and
> go down to 40hz, making a seperate sub a minor concern.
>
> I really like the celedon green myself
> http://www.norh.com/products/sm/sm6_9green2.jpg
> Blue with a stand also looks great.
> http://www.norh.com/products/sm/blue6_9_3.jpg
>
> Of course, if they are too large, he can always back off
> a "notch": http://www.norh.com/products/norh5/index.html
> This is quite small and can be had in synthetic marble.
> Real marble is a bit fragile and expensive. The synthetic
> stuff is like Corian. Nothing short of dropping it hard
> or taking a hammer to it will hurt it.
>
> Lower footprint, good sound, and high WAF.
>
> >>As a plus, the MMGs are amazingly good speakers when mated
> >>to a small, fast sub(which you can stow in the corner quite
> >>easily). Stunning clarity and dispersion for background music,
> >>considering their $550 price.
> >>
> >>Almost any amplifier will run a pair of these if you don't
> >>run anything else(typical 5.1 amp just running 2 channels)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Just don't put them against the walls!
>
> He also could get a pair of MMG-W. They have piano hinges
> on one side so that you can swing them out from the wall into
> proper playing position. They require a sub, though.



Scott Wheeler

[Matt Silberstein]

On 4 Jun 2005 11:30:35 -0700, in rec.audio.opinion ,
in
. com> wrote:

>
>
>Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "Certain speakers maintain coherency at close listening distances,
>> > while others fall apart. The Kef Uni-Q speakers are good at this. So
>> > are bookshelf speakers in general."
>>
>> Maggies are fine close-up. Their huge radiating area also
>> means that they play quite well at lower volumes.
>
>
>Yes. I totally agree with this. But I suspect the probelm is that this
>is not a dedicated listening room. I get the feeling that there are
>furniture issues. Bookshelf speakers excel in this situation.
>
Dedicated listening room? It is a 1 bedroom NYC apt. It is the living
room, office, listening room, etc.

[snip]

>What are you tralking about here? We are talking about bookshelf
>speakers in a multipurpose room v. dipoles in a multipurpose room. You
>are proposing he put dipoles against a wall. Bad idea. May as well get
>Bose if you want to sound smeared like that.

Just to let everyone know, I am fully confused. Bookshelf vs floor vs
satellite/subwoofer, that was a comprehensible discussion. But I have
to admit I have gotten lost.

[snip]

> hence his
>> asking for a potential solution. Me, though, I'd get a big
>> pair of NoRH speakers in synthetic marble and place them on
>> a nice pedistal or stand. Instant artwork and good sound.

My Time Windows are attractive and have a nice shelf on top. And in a
different space they had a great sound.

>> Remember - a large round object takes up less "space"
>> visually than a smaller square one as humans have a problem
>> psychologically with square-ish objects. They feel larger
>> than they really are.
>
>
>Yeah..... this is the help he is looking for. I get the jokes but will
>the original poster?

Nope.

BTW, in case you did not see the correction, the speakers have to go
on the *long* wall, not the short one.
[snip]


>> Of course, if they are too large, he can always back off
>> a "notch": http://www.norh.com/products/norh5/index.html
>> This is quite small and can be had in synthetic marble.
>> Real marble is a bit fragile and expensive. The synthetic
>> stuff is like Corian. Nothing short of dropping it hard
>> or taking a hammer to it will hurt it.

Neat looking and they may well sound great. But something that deep is
just not going to work.


--
Matt Silberstein

All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.

[Joseph Oberlander]

wrote:

> Yes. I totally agree with this. But I suspect the probelm is that this
> is not a dedicated listening room. I get the feeling that there are
> furniture issues. Bookshelf speakers excel in this situation.

Stands and mounts are a problem, though. Low WAF. Same footprint
as a thin rounded tower like what he currently has.

> What are you tralking about here? We are talking about bookshelf
> speakers in a multipurpose room v. dipoles in a multipurpose room. You
> are proposing he put dipoles against a wall. Bad idea. May as well get
> Bose if you want to sound smeared like that.

The trick is to mount them off the wall at an angle. Far enough
out to get somewhat decent sound, but not so far out so that they
turn into a small wall themselves.

> Pinkerton? I agree. But what is the cure for chronic asshole syndrome?

Just ask Arny. ;)

[Joseph Oberlander]

Matt Silberstein wrote:

>>What are you tralking about here? We are talking about bookshelf
>>speakers in a multipurpose room v. dipoles in a multipurpose room. You
>>are proposing he put dipoles against a wall. Bad idea. May as well get
>>Bose if you want to sound smeared like that.
>
> Just to let everyone know, I am fully confused. Bookshelf vs floor vs
> satellite/subwoofer, that was a comprehensible discussion. But I have
> to admit I have gotten lost.

Sorry. www.magnepan.com
Flat speakers - about 2 inches thick. The smallest ones come with
a piano type hinge for wall or AV center mounting. Swing out when
in use, swing flat when not. $300, IIRC, for the smallest ones.

These do require a sub, though, as the smaller MMG-W panel is
essentially a midrange and tweeter only(but the best one you've
ever heard under $2000+)

> My Time Windows are attractive and have a nice shelf on top. And in a
> different space they had a great sound.

I know. Nice pseakers, actually. They just are too large,
right?

> BTW, in case you did not see the correction, the speakers have to go
> on the *long* wall, not the short one.
> [snip]

I did. :) Long wall - about 16-17ft long, right? That's easy
to hide stuff along.

>>>Of course, if they are too large, he can always back off
>>>a "notch": http://www.norh.com/products/norh5/index.html
>>>This is quite small and can be had in synthetic marble.
>>>Real marble is a bit fragile and expensive. The synthetic
>>>stuff is like Corian. Nothing short of dropping it hard
>>>or taking a hammer to it will hurt it.
>
> Neat looking and they may well sound great. But something that deep is
> just not going to work.

Okay. That's leaving you with the MMG-Ws, in-walls, and
a few wall-mounted(no wall mount-actually mounted TO the
wall) surround type speakers. Any mount or stand will
take up as much space as your tower does, most likely,
once you put the speaker on top of it.

Now, Tannoy, for instance, does make some stunning in-wall
models(the dual-concentrics) that sounds better than most
bookshelf speakers, but they require very stiff walls
when the bass kicks in at higher volumes. Cross-braced
5/8 inch drywall is suggested at a minimum. Plaster and
coating over mesh(as is all too common in new houses these
days) won't really cut it.

The KEF Ci series are a bit more forgiving and sound pretty
decent as well. The bass isn't as good as the Tannoys, though
both are better than most bookshelf type speakers. Kef does have
quite a few novel types of offerings, though.