Donate Arny an amp???

[Robert Morein]

Does anyone have a spare, decent amp, to donate to Arny, so he could be made
aware of his own idiocy?

I'm open to debate as to whether this is an ethical thing to do. Of course,
it might destroy the man.

[[email protected]]

Robert Morein wrote:

"Does anyone have a spare, decent amp, to donate to Arny, so he could
be made
aware of his own idiocy?


I'm open to debate as to whether this is an ethical thing to do. Of
course,
it might destroy the man."

So you won't answer as to having done a blind comparison of a QSC amp
such as the one Arny has, against one that you think sounds better.

I'm curious do you guys share one set of balls between you? It was
apparently JA's turn to have them at the Debate, when do you get them?

[George M. Middius]

Robert Morein said:

> Does anyone have a spare, decent amp, to donate to Arny, so he could be made
> aware of his own idiocy?
>
> I'm open to debate as to whether this is an ethical thing to do. Of course,
> it might destroy the man.


When you say "donate" an amp him, do you mean "drop it on Arnii's head"?

[Robert Morein]

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Robert Morein said:
>
> > Does anyone have a spare, decent amp, to donate to Arny, so he could be
made
> > aware of his own idiocy?
> >
> > I'm open to debate as to whether this is an ethical thing to do. Of
course,
> > it might destroy the man.
>
>
> When you say "donate" an amp him, do you mean "drop it on Arnii's head"?
>
You want to "pound some sense into him" ?
That would be as cruel as forcing him to eat his words.

[Robert Morein]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Robert Morein wrote:
>
> "Does anyone have a spare, decent amp, to donate to Arny, so he could
> be made
> aware of his own idiocy?
>
>
> I'm open to debate as to whether this is an ethical thing to do. Of
> course,
> it might destroy the man."
>
> So you won't answer as to having done a blind comparison of a QSC amp
> such as the one Arny has, against one that you think sounds better.
>
The sound of a QSC amp evokes the piquant saying "You can't **** on my back
and call it rain."

[[email protected]]

Robert Morein keeps ducking:

"The sound of a QSC amp evokes the piquant saying "You can't **** on my
back
and call it rain." "

Why won't you answer the question? Have you ever done a bias
controlled, level matched, comparison of any QSC USA amp against any
other amp?

I believe we all know the answer is that you have never done any kind
of bias controlled comparison ever.

IOW you are ****ing on our backs and calling it rain.

[Robert Morein]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Robert Morein keeps ducking:
>
> "The sound of a QSC amp evokes the piquant saying "You can't **** on my
> back
> and call it rain." "
>
> Why won't you answer the question? Have you ever done a bias
> controlled, level matched, comparison of any QSC USA amp against any
> other amp?
>
> I believe we all know the answer is that you have never done any kind
> of bias controlled comparison ever.
>
> IOW you are ****ing on our backs and calling it rain.
>
You may wallow in it if you wish.

[Schizoid Man]

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message

>> I believe we all know the answer is that you have never done any kind
>> of bias controlled comparison ever.
>>
>> IOW you are ****ing on our backs and calling it rain.
>>
> You may wallow in it if you wish.

Talking of amps...

I think the Roksan is a really terrific unit as far as both resolution and
bass goes - a significant improvement over the Marantz. I've been listening
to David Gray's White Ladder and it has never sounded better - clean,
detailed and vibrant. The CD really comes alive.

I've also been listening to The Who's Ultimate Collection. When the bass
kicks in on Eminence Front, it has a punch to it that was definitely absent
from the Marantz.

Records like The Crystal Method's Vegas and Paul Oakenfold's New York Global
Underground also sound rather good.

On the flip side, a lot of my rock favorites sound a bit tinny and, quite
frankly, harsh. I played Metallica's Ride the Lightning and Master of
Puppets and AC/DC's Back in Black. They definitely don't sound as warm as
they did with the Marantz.

Is the Roksan just revealing shoddy production? Or is it possible that it
may not be a good match for rock? I'm sort of developing a love/hate
relationship with this amp.

Tim Martin had mentioned that it might be distorting given that it seemed
signifcantly louder even though the power rating was only 20wpc more. Is
there any way for me to determine this? I'm not playing it at loud volume
levels.

[[email protected]]

Schizoid Man said:

"Tim Martin had mentioned that it might be distorting given that it
seemed
signifcantly louder even though the power rating was only 20wpc more.
Is
there any way for me to determine this? I'm not playing it at loud
volume
levels."

One possible reason might be the amount of headroom. If the Roksan has
more it might cause it to sound better, particularly in the bass, as
this takes more power.

[[email protected]]

Robert no science Morein said:

"You may wallow in it if you wish."

You are the one wallowing sir. You condemn others for not using good
science, but you refuse to use any.

You complain that something sounds bad, but won't even say if it is the
same as what you are crtiticizing.

Why not just own up to the fact that you don't know what you're talking
about?

[Robert Morein]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Robert no science Morein said:
>
> "You may wallow in it if you wish."
>
> You are the one wallowing sir. You condemn others for not using good
> science, but you refuse to use any.
>
> You complain that something sounds bad, but won't even say if it is the
> same as what you are crtiticizing.
>
> Why not just own up to the fact that you don't know what you're talking
> about?
>
Because I do not believe your position is correct.

[Margaret von B.]

"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>
>>> I believe we all know the answer is that you have never done any kind
>>> of bias controlled comparison ever.
>>>
>>> IOW you are ****ing on our backs and calling it rain.
>>>
>> You may wallow in it if you wish.
>
> Talking of amps...
>
> I think the Roksan is a really terrific unit as far as both resolution and
> bass goes - a significant improvement over the Marantz. I've been
> listening to David Gray's White Ladder and it has never sounded better -
> clean, detailed and vibrant. The CD really comes alive.
>
> I've also been listening to The Who's Ultimate Collection. When the bass
> kicks in on Eminence Front, it has a punch to it that was definitely
> absent from the Marantz.
>
> Records like The Crystal Method's Vegas and Paul Oakenfold's New York
> Global Underground also sound rather good.
>
> On the flip side, a lot of my rock favorites sound a bit tinny and, quite
> frankly, harsh. I played Metallica's Ride the Lightning and Master of
> Puppets and AC/DC's Back in Black. They definitely don't sound as warm as
> they did with the Marantz.
>
> Is the Roksan just revealing shoddy production? Or is it possible that it
> may not be a good match for rock? I'm sort of developing a love/hate
> relationship with this amp.
>
> Tim Martin had mentioned that it might be distorting given that it seemed
> signifcantly louder even though the power rating was only 20wpc more. Is
> there any way for me to determine this? I'm not playing it at loud volume
> levels.
>
>

I said it before and I'll say it again: Stop playing with those underpowered
toys.

The specs and ratings mean nothing as you have probably noticed by now.
(BTW, the Tim Martins of this world never will.) Get yourself a bona fide
muscle amp like a Krell, McCormack, Parasound, newer McIntosh or preferably
Plinius. Even if you cannot afford it, you need to try one in your system.
If you then decide that it is exactly what was missing, hit the used
equipment listings and find something similar. I've been there myself. One
simple test is that if it is very heavy and gets very hot it is also going
to sound very good in your system. For example a Krell KSA-50 and KSA-100
are cheap by now and paired with a passive controller will transform your
speakers. You can also walk to your nearest guitar center and get a Crown
that I mentioned elsewhere with a 30 day, no questions asked, return policy.
That's 300 WPC or more and runs cool. It will make a difference even if you
cannot use all of its power without frying your speakers.

Nobody buys a ****ing Roksan in the US where we have real amps. You need to
expand your horizons.

Toto, your not in Sussex anymore :-)

Margaret

[Schizoid Man]

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message

> The specs and ratings mean nothing as you have probably noticed by now.
> (BTW, the Tim Martins of this world never will.) Get yourself a bona fide
> muscle amp like a Krell, McCormack, Parasound, newer McIntosh or
> preferably Plinius. Even if you cannot afford it, you need to try one in
> your system.

Plinius, McIntosh and Krell are all definitely out of my range. Moreover,
I'm not sure my Ikea A/V furniture has the wherewithal to support some 100
lb beast.

McCormack, I agree, are definitely pure class. But again, probably overkill
for the application I had in mind. I did try the Parasound Halo A23. Though
it is a very fine looking piece of equipment, to paraphrase one RAO poster
"blue lights are cool, but they don't necessarily sound good." I found it
quite soulless, dry and vacant.

> If you then decide that it is exactly what was missing, hit the used
> equipment listings and find something similar. I've been there myself. One
> simple test is that if it is very heavy and gets very hot it is also going
> to sound very good in your system.

You're kidding, right? Hotter is better????

> Nobody buys a ****ing Roksan in the US where we have real amps. You need
> to expand your horizons.

Apparently, you have real subwoofers as well:
http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackHammer.cfm

I'm sure you'll need a lot more than paltry Krells to power this baby.

> Toto, your not in Sussex anymore :-)

Dorothy, you can take the boy out of Kansas, but can you really ever take
Kansas out of the boy? ;-)

[Sander deWaal]

"Schizoid Man" > said:

>> If you then decide that it is exactly what was missing, hit the used
>> equipment listings and find something similar. I've been there myself. One
>> simple test is that if it is very heavy and gets very hot it is also going
>> to sound very good in your system.
>
>You're kidding, right? Hotter is better????


A hot amp is usually a sign of (near) class A biasing, which is an
amplifier topology that can sound very good for various proven
technical reasons.

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Margaret von B.]

"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
>
>> The specs and ratings mean nothing as you have probably noticed by now.
>> (BTW, the Tim Martins of this world never will.) Get yourself a bona fide
>> muscle amp like a Krell, McCormack, Parasound, newer McIntosh or
>> preferably Plinius. Even if you cannot afford it, you need to try one in
>> your system.
>
> Plinius, McIntosh and Krell are all definitely out of my range. Moreover,
> I'm not sure my Ikea A/V furniture has the wherewithal to support some 100
> lb beast.
>

Amps belong on the floor unless the Zoethecus fairy left you a present.

> McCormack, I agree, are definitely pure class. But again, probably
> overkill for the application I had in mind.

Definitely not. That was my point.

>I did try the Parasound Halo A23. Though it is a very fine looking piece of
>equipment, to paraphrase one RAO poster "blue lights are cool, but they
>don't necessarily sound good." I found it quite soulless, dry and vacant.
>

I got 4 JC-1's all bought used to drive the big stat-hybrids and it is the
best amp I've ever had. I'm guessing it is too neutral for you. That's why
brought up the Plinius. Something's wrong with your stuff. You have JM Labs,
right? Are you sure your speakers aren't out of phase? You need to try
without the Marantz in there as a pre, too.

>> If you then decide that it is exactly what was missing, hit the used
>> equipment listings and find something similar. I've been there myself.
>> One simple test is that if it is very heavy and gets very hot it is also
>> going to sound very good in your system.
>
> You're kidding, right? Hotter is better????
>

No, I wasn't. The 15 year old Krells and other similar class A designs are
excellent in certain ways the more modern ones are. You need to listen to
one to decide for yourself.

>> Nobody buys a ****ing Roksan in the US where we have real amps. You need
>> to expand your horizons.
>
> Apparently, you have real subwoofers as well:
> http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackHammer.cfm
>

OK, you got me there :-). Sometimes too much is just that. Heh, my car subs
are french!

> I'm sure you'll need a lot more than paltry Krells to power this baby.
>

If I recall correctly, the big Krell is rated at 16,000W @ 0.5 ohm
continuous power so this sub should be a piece of cake for it. However, try
hooking the combo to a car battery or even a standard US household socket...

>> Toto, your not in Sussex anymore :-)
>
> Dorothy, you can take the boy out of Kansas, but can you really ever take
> Kansas out of the boy? ;-)
>

Depends on the deal. This is America, after all!


Cheers,

Margaret

[Robert Morein]

"Schizoid Man" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
>
> > The specs and ratings mean nothing as you have probably noticed by now.
> > (BTW, the Tim Martins of this world never will.) Get yourself a bona
fide
> > muscle amp like a Krell, McCormack, Parasound, newer McIntosh or
> > preferably Plinius. Even if you cannot afford it, you need to try one in
> > your system.
>
> Plinius, McIntosh and Krell are all definitely out of my range. Moreover,
> I'm not sure my Ikea A/V furniture has the wherewithal to support some 100
> lb beast.
>
> McCormack, I agree, are definitely pure class. But again, probably
overkill
> for the application I had in mind. I did try the Parasound Halo A23.
Though
> it is a very fine looking piece of equipment, to paraphrase one RAO poster
> "blue lights are cool, but they don't necessarily sound good." I found it
> quite soulless, dry and vacant.
>
> > If you then decide that it is exactly what was missing, hit the used
> > equipment listings and find something similar. I've been there myself.
One
> > simple test is that if it is very heavy and gets very hot it is also
going
> > to sound very good in your system.
>
> You're kidding, right? Hotter is better????
>
Margaret is right. Cool running designs rely on Class AB operation, with
tricky bias schemes to linearize the transistors around the crossover point.
Hotter running amps run Class A at low power levels, gradually switching to
Class AB at higher levels. The result is much easier to linearize using
feedback.

Although there have been a few highly praised AB designs, the majority of
high quality amplifiers use A-AB, which results in considerable heat
generation at idle. You can identify these designs by the fact that they run
hot.

These amplifiers tend to be more costly as well, because they require both
larger heatsinks, and a larger power supply.

[Sander deWaal]

"Robert Morein" > said:

>> You're kidding, right? Hotter is better????

>Margaret is right. Cool running designs rely on Class AB operation, with
>tricky bias schemes to linearize the transistors around the crossover point.
>Hotter running amps run Class A at low power levels, gradually switching to
>Class AB at higher levels. The result is much easier to linearize using
>feedback.


Not only that, but they suffer less from thermal distortion and
related semiconductor problems, and they're (theoretically) better
able to cope with phase-shifting loads.

For tube amps, there's another advantage of class A circuitry: the
impedance match from output stage to speaker load via the transformer
is more constant. In AB or even B the load the output tubes see is
variable, depending on the amount of cutoff from one or both tubes
when driven.

Yep, hot amps are cool ;-)

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[Schizoid Man]

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message

>> Plinius, McIntosh and Krell are all definitely out of my range. Moreover,
>> I'm not sure my Ikea A/V furniture has the wherewithal to support some
>> 100 lb beast.
>>
>
> Amps belong on the floor unless the Zoethecus fairy left you a present.

I have hardwood floors. I might inadvertently start a fire if it runs too
hot. ;-)

> I got 4 JC-1's all bought used to drive the big stat-hybrids and it is the
> best amp I've ever had. I'm guessing it is too neutral for you. That's why
> brought up the Plinius. Something's wrong with your stuff. You have JM
> Labs, right? Are you sure your speakers aren't out of phase? You need to
> try without the Marantz in there as a pre, too.

No, my speakers are definitely out of phase. In all likelihood, the Marantz
is a ****e pre-amp, so I think the Roksan is definitely not on my shopping
list right now. This one goes back to whence it came from.

>> You're kidding, right? Hotter is better????
>>
>
> No, I wasn't. The 15 year old Krells and other similar class A designs are
> excellent in certain ways the more modern ones are. You need to listen to
> one to decide for yourself.

I presume the Krells are single-ended which is why they are large.

>
>>> Nobody buys a ****ing Roksan in the US where we have real amps. You need
>>> to expand your horizons.
>>
>> Apparently, you have real subwoofers as well:
>> http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/jackHammer.cfm
>>
>
> OK, you got me there :-). Sometimes too much is just that. Heh, my car
> subs are french!
>
>> I'm sure you'll need a lot more than paltry Krells to power this baby.
>>
>
> If I recall correctly, the big Krell is rated at 16,000W @ 0.5 ohm
> continuous power so this sub should be a piece of cake for it. However,
> try hooking the combo to a car battery or even a standard US household
> socket...

16 kW? I think California's got enough energy woes with me adding to them!
;-)

>
>>> Toto, your not in Sussex anymore :-)
>>
>> Dorothy, you can take the boy out of Kansas, but can you really ever take
>> Kansas out of the boy? ;-)
>
> Depends on the deal. This is America, after all!

And on that note, I will be adieu.

I am off to Sequoia National Park for the rest of the weekend,

A merry long weekend for all the Yanks and Brits...

[Sander deWaal]

"Schizoid Man" > said:

>I presume the Krells are single-ended which is why they are large.


Class A is something else than Single Ended.
Though a SE amp is always biased in class A, it certainly is possible
to make a push pull (or complementary) amplifier that is biased in A.
Like the Krell KSA 50, 80 etc.

I don't really get the association of SE with large units, other than
the necessary heatsinks.

You're not thinking of Nelson Pass' Son Of Zen designs, are you? ;-)

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005