Is it OK to bang on houses with rubber mallets? [Archive]

Enough Already

July 10th 04, 09:24 PM

I'd like to know the difference between running up to someone's home
and pounding on it with a big rubber mallet (muted, heavy vibrations)
vs. driving down a street sending out bass shock-waves that affect
many homes at once.

If you can see that it's obnoxious to walk up to someone's house and
shake the hell out of it with direct impacts, why is it any less
obnoxious to do it from a distance with subwoofers? Step back from
your noisy self-absorption for a just a moment and really think about
that concept.

If someone came to _your_ house when you were trying to relax or sleep
and started slamming it with a mallet, you know you'd be angry to the
point of violence. So, with that in mind, think about _others_ the
next time you spam high pressure lows all over a neighborhood.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.

P.S. Don't waste time saying things like "I play MY music responsibly,
so don't lump ME into a group." Of course I'm not talking about YOU if
that's really the case. If you truly share a concern for the abuse of
car stereos, focus your energy on the thousands of callous boomers,
not the residents who complain about them. It's a funny human trait
that members of a larger group are so unwilling to criticize the worst
of their lot.

DJ TecThreat

July 10th 04, 09:33 PM

Give it a rest, SPAMMER! i'm making sure i bring my suburban with the 4
meyer sound 18"s by your house tonight just for being an idiot!

DJ TecThreat
The Real Thret
Bangs heavey bass in the vehicle AND in the venues.

"Enough Already" > wrote in message
om...
> I'd like to know the difference between running up to someone's home
> and pounding on it with a big rubber mallet (muted, heavy vibrations)
> vs. driving down a street sending out bass shock-waves that affect
> many homes at once.
>
> If you can see that it's obnoxious to walk up to someone's house and
> shake the hell out of it with direct impacts, why is it any less
> obnoxious to do it from a distance with subwoofers? Step back from
> your noisy self-absorption for a just a moment and really think about
> that concept.
>
> If someone came to _your_ house when you were trying to relax or sleep
> and started slamming it with a mallet, you know you'd be angry to the
> point of violence. So, with that in mind, think about _others_ the
> next time you spam high pressure lows all over a neighborhood.
>
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
> If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
>
>
> P.S. Don't waste time saying things like "I play MY music responsibly,
> so don't lump ME into a group." Of course I'm not talking about YOU if
> that's really the case. If you truly share a concern for the abuse of
> car stereos, focus your energy on the thousands of callous boomers,
> not the residents who complain about them. It's a funny human trait
> that members of a larger group are so unwilling to criticize the worst
> of their lot.

Ken Hoinsky

July 10th 04, 10:07 PM

Aww, come here, it'll be okay *hugs*

Enough Already wrote:
> I'd like to know the difference between running up to someone's home
> and pounding on it with a big rubber mallet (muted, heavy vibrations)
> vs. driving down a street sending out bass shock-waves that affect
> many homes at once.
>
> If you can see that it's obnoxious to walk up to someone's house and
> shake the hell out of it with direct impacts, why is it any less
> obnoxious to do it from a distance with subwoofers? Step back from
> your noisy self-absorption for a just a moment and really think about
> that concept.
>
> If someone came to _your_ house when you were trying to relax or sleep
> and started slamming it with a mallet, you know you'd be angry to the
> point of violence. So, with that in mind, think about _others_ the
> next time you spam high pressure lows all over a neighborhood.
>
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
> If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
>
>
> P.S. Don't waste time saying things like "I play MY music responsibly,
> so don't lump ME into a group." Of course I'm not talking about YOU if
> that's really the case. If you truly share a concern for the abuse of
> car stereos, focus your energy on the thousands of callous boomers,
> not the residents who complain about them. It's a funny human trait
> that members of a larger group are so unwilling to criticize the worst
> of their lot.

July 10th 04, 10:38 PM

Everything you said is absolutely correct. The "mallet" analogy you used is
perfectly fitting and emphasizes the point well. However, while I'm in
agreement with what you said, I think it's worth noting that the efforts to
try to solve these issues with legislation are deplorable, stereotypical,
and downright unfair. Bass music coming from cars is just one road noise of
many. To outlaw one would require outlawing all of them, if lawmakers
wanted to be consistent (which I guess would be a first, huh?). This
wouldn't go over well with the thousands of Harley enthusiasts, people who
park their semis at their residences, etc.

I think folks like you and I that aren't interested in hearing people's
music blaring at us or aren't impressed that their equipment can rattle our
walls just need to take the "tolerance" approach. I tolerate these
numbskulls' practices for the same reason I tolerate my neighbors having a
loud graduation party for their kids, or my neighbors driving their semi to
their house at 3 AM which shakes MY entire house, or some guy taking off on
his Harley making me nearly jump out of my skin when I'm not expecting it.

Unfortunately for the bassheads, they tend to be made up of a bunch of
simpletons who don't know how to compromise. I anticipate it being illegal
and enforced in most states within 5 years. It's already illegal in some
places.

> I'd like to know the difference between running up to someone's home
> and pounding on it with a big rubber mallet (muted, heavy vibrations)
> vs. driving down a street sending out bass shock-waves that affect
> many homes at once.
>
> If you can see that it's obnoxious to walk up to someone's house and
> shake the hell out of it with direct impacts, why is it any less
> obnoxious to do it from a distance with subwoofers? Step back from
> your noisy self-absorption for a just a moment and really think about
> that concept.
>
> If someone came to _your_ house when you were trying to relax or sleep
> and started slamming it with a mallet, you know you'd be angry to the
> point of violence. So, with that in mind, think about _others_ the
> next time you spam high pressure lows all over a neighborhood.
>
>
> E.A.
>
> http://enough_already.tripod.com/
> If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
>
>
> P.S. Don't waste time saying things like "I play MY music responsibly,
> so don't lump ME into a group." Of course I'm not talking about YOU if
> that's really the case. If you truly share a concern for the abuse of
> car stereos, focus your energy on the thousands of callous boomers,
> not the residents who complain about them. It's a funny human trait
> that members of a larger group are so unwilling to criticize the worst
> of their lot.

winkenstein

July 11th 04, 05:24 AM

all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!

DJ TecThreat

July 11th 04, 05:37 AM

"winkenstein" > wrote in message
om...
> all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!

Or a pair of Adire Brahma's......

I was kidding about the whole blasting the subs thing, i dont purposly go
around annoying people and trying to wake them up in the middle of the
night, infact if its past like 5:00pm then i only turn it up when i'm on the
highway (which is already loud from traffic).

You do have a point, but come on here, spamming it around is not going to
get you anywhere becuase now you're annoying the people that annoy you and 2
wrongs dont make a right.

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

July 11th 04, 05:52 AM

> all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!

Do some people really think like this? Are you honestly that dumb?

Tony Fernandes

July 11th 04, 10:36 AM

MZ wrote: "Do some people really think like this? Are you honestly that
dumb?"

Yes, Mark...some people really think like this. And yes, he is that dumb.

It always amazes me at the sheer number of heated replies these sorts of
posts attract.

I find myself turning my stereo down when I'm stopped at a red light just
out of consideration of everyone around me. Number 1, my stereo gets really
freaking loud and number 2, I'm assuming not everyone shares my taste for
good music. I dunno...I guess I'm more considerate than most people.

Tony

--

What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> > all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> > away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> > oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> > so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!
>
> Do some people really think like this? Are you honestly that dumb?
>
>

Enough Already

July 11th 04, 05:58 PM

"DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM> wrote in message >...

> Give it a rest, SPAMMER! i'm making sure i bring my suburban with the 4
> meyer sound 18"s by your house tonight just for being an idiot!

I'll assume this particular reply is a joke since you sound reasonable
further down in the thread. But the typical boom-monkey has zero
conscience about their actions.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague

Enough Already

July 11th 04, 06:15 PM

(winkenstein) wrote in message >...

> all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!

If you really think that way you're just no damned good. Ear plugs
don't even block super-low bass because it's a felt phenomenon.

But you are correct in saying that boom-rats have infested even the
most rural areas, including some national parks. It's a contagious
disease with no conscience. One idiot hears another and thinks "I
gotta get me some o dat big boom! I gotta get even biggah boom dan dat
guy so da sluts will love me!" And before you know it, every idiot
within hearing distance is wasting money on overkill systems. It's
never been about sound quality.

Inside a car, boom bass is painful to listen to and drowns out the
rest of the music, so it's mostly about showing off for other IQ-75
dummies. And all that eardrum-flapping will come back to haunt you
with tinnitus and deafness as you age. I just wish the rest of us
didn't have to deal with it in the meantime.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.

winkenstein

July 11th 04, 07:03 PM

"DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM> wrote in message >...
> "winkenstein" > wrote in message
> om...
> > all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> > away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> > oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> > so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!
>
> Or a pair of Adire Brahma's......
>
> I was kidding about the whole blasting the subs thing, i dont purposly go
> around annoying people and trying to wake them up in the middle of the
> night, infact if its past like 5:00pm then i only turn it up when i'm on the
> highway (which is already loud from traffic).
>
> You do have a point, but come on here, spamming it around is not going to
> get you anywhere becuase now you're annoying the people that annoy you and 2
> wrongs dont make a right.
>
> DJ TecThreat
> The Real Threat

winkenstein says; I agree with this, and I do not purposely go out of
my way either to annoy others, and if it does sincerely bother others
that much, than i truely am sorry for that - BUT AS MY PARENTS AND
NEIGHBORS HAVE BOTH FREQUENTLY SAID, "I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE YOU
SPENDING YOUR MONEY ON YOUR HOBBIES, THAN SEE YOU SPEND A NICKLE ON
DRUGS AND/OR ALCOHAL

winkenstein

July 11th 04, 07:11 PM

"Tony Fernandes" > wrote in message >...
> MZ wrote: "Do some people really think like this? Are you honestly that
> dumb?"
>
> Yes, Mark...some people really think like this. And yes, he is that dumb.
>

NO; I am not really that dumb, I AM Just annoyed by all controversy
that is caused by this Hobby,

I Do Not Go Out Of My Way To Annoy People - My Parents and Neighbors
both have repeatedly said, "I Would Much Rather See You Enjoying
Yourself and Your Hobbies and Spend Yourself Broke on Your Car and
it's Stereo, Than Buy an Once of Alchohol or Drugs!!!"

DJ TecThreat

July 11th 04, 08:06 PM

"Enough Already" > wrote in message
om...
> (winkenstein) wrote in message
>...
>
> > all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> > away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> > oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> > so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!
>
> If you really think that way you're just no damned good. Ear plugs
> don't even block super-low bass because it's a felt phenomenon.

It's also non-directional, so how do you know its coming from us??

> But you are correct in saying that boom-rats have infested even the
> most rural areas, including some national parks. It's a contagious
> disease with no conscience. One idiot hears another and thinks "I
> gotta get me some o dat big boom! I gotta get even biggah boom dan dat
> guy so da sluts will love me!" And before you know it, every idiot
> within hearing distance is wasting money on overkill systems. It's
> never been about sound quality.

See, how can you ask for justice and fairness from us when you say things
like that? using cleche's and insults will once again get you nowhere when
you are trying to make someone stop doing something.

> Inside a car, boom bass is painful to listen to and drowns out the
> rest of the music, so it's mostly about showing off for other IQ-75
> dummies. And all that eardrum-flapping will come back to haunt you
> with tinnitus and deafness as you age. I just wish the rest of us
> didn't have to deal with it in the meantime.

How do you know its painful?? You can NOT say that for sure becuase that is
opionionated.

On another level, my full range speakers are heard and my subwoofers are
not, they are tuned low, they are completley inaudible to the human ear and
no one can actually "hear" my subs.

Bottom line is- You're going about this all wrong, its people like you that
make people that are loud and annoying ignore your request for us to turn
it down. Instead off trying to gather up a bunch of people to point the
finger, why not help relocate the noise? get involved in it and help
propogate events where people can go compete and play their stereos as loud
as they want without disturbing people in their homes.

http://www.termpro.com

I play my system responsibly, but i can certainly say that if i did not and
you came to me with this attitude i wouldnt change my tune any sooner. (no
pun intended).

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

July 11th 04, 08:30 PM

> winkenstein says; I agree with this, and I do not purposely go out of
> my way either to annoy others, and if it does sincerely bother others
> that much, than i truely am sorry for that - BUT AS MY PARENTS AND
> NEIGHBORS HAVE BOTH FREQUENTLY SAID, "I WOULD MUCH RATHER SEE YOU
> SPENDING YOUR MONEY ON YOUR HOBBIES, THAN SEE YOU SPEND A NICKLE ON
> DRUGS AND/OR ALCOHAL

How about spending it on a spell checker?

July 11th 04, 08:32 PM

> NO; I am not really that dumb, I AM Just annoyed by all controversy
> that is caused by this Hobby,
>
> I Do Not Go Out Of My Way To Annoy People - My Parents and Neighbors
> both have repeatedly said, "I Would Much Rather See You Enjoying
> Yourself and Your Hobbies and Spend Yourself Broke on Your Car and
> it's Stereo, Than Buy an Once of Alchohol or Drugs!!!"

But some people, myself included, couldn't care less what drugs you do or
what hobbies you enjoy. These people don't want to listen to your stupid
music. It's really that simple.

July 11th 04, 08:36 PM

> Instead off trying to gather up a bunch of people to point the
> finger, why not help relocate the noise? get involved in it and help
> propogate events where people can go compete and play their stereos as
loud
> as they want without disturbing people in their homes.

Why should he? It's not his responsibility. Don't feed the imbeciles that
get off on "competing".

I've never been able to figure out why people feel the need to "compete"
anyway. If you're into competitions, play a sport. Don't buy other
people's equipment and have other people install it and then claim to go out
and "compete" with it. If you designed and built all the equipment, then
maybe you wouldn't look so foolish flaunting it.

(DJ, by "you" I don't mean you specifically. I mean "competitors". Then
again, if the shoe fits...)

Tony Fernandes

July 11th 04, 09:08 PM

DJ TecThreat wrote:
"It's also non-directional, so how do you know its coming from us??"

Is that a real question? You think we're all that stupid?

"How do you know its painful?? You can NOT say that for sure becuase that
is opionionated."

This whole thread is about opinions. However, you're right...he doesn't
know for sure what the volume level is inside YOUR car. But it's safe to
assume that bass notes inside the car are pretty damn loud if they're
rattling the dishes in my cupboards, for example.

"On another level, my full range speakers are heard and my subwoofers are
not, they are tuned low, they are completley inaudible to the human ear and
no one can actually "hear" my subs."

Really? You evidently don't know very much about your hobby.

Tony

--

What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

DJ TecThreat

July 11th 04, 11:21 PM

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> > Instead off trying to gather up a bunch of people to point the
> > finger, why not help relocate the noise? get involved in it and help
> > propogate events where people can go compete and play their stereos as
> loud
> > as they want without disturbing people in their homes.
>
> Why should he? It's not his responsibility. Don't feed the imbeciles
that
> get off on "competing".

I'm not telling him he has to be, but being grumpy about it isnt getting him
anywhere..

> I've never been able to figure out why people feel the need to "compete"
> anyway. If you're into competitions, play a sport. Don't buy other
> people's equipment and have other people install it and then claim to go
out
> and "compete" with it. If you designed and built all the equipment, then
> maybe you wouldn't look so foolish flaunting it.

Thats pretty much besides the point, i personally dont compete, i just build
my systems for sheer joy of it, trying new configurations and install
styles.. making things work that would ordinarily, using things that you
would normally use (hence my meyer sound subs), etc...

> (DJ, by "you" I don't mean you specifically. I mean "competitors". Then
> again, if the shoe fits...)

Hey, i understand, i dont compete and do build my own systems, never had
anyone install it for me.... How would i look flaunting another's work?

"Tony Fernandes" > wrote in message
.
>Is that a real question? You think we're all that stupid?

Nope, that was a joke just to combat his bantering about how stupid he likes
to think we are.

> This whole thread is about opinions. However, you're right...he doesn't
> know for sure what the volume level is inside YOUR car. But it's safe to
> assume that bass notes inside the car are pretty damn loud if they're
> rattling the dishes in my cupboards, for example

Yes you are right, this whole thread IS about opinions but when you start
calling people names and using stereotypical methods for cropping all car
audio enthuisiests into a group of loud immature punks then you're stepping
on my toes. He claims he is not doing this, but he very well is doing it.
And foremore Bass doesnt hurt.. this kind of ludicracy is the type of thing
activist thrive on. Without it they have no arguement so they simply go
around picking out things that rarely occour and they generalize it to an
entire group of people. IMO, i wont tolerate it or be treated like i dont
deserve any respect becuase i have a loud stereo system.

> Really? You evidently don't know very much about your hobby.

You're going to honestly sit there and tell me that you CAN hear 20hz?? I
find that hard to believe. If we're not factoring noises created by the bass
(literally non in my case) then 20hz is NOT something you can just hear
unless ofcourse you are a freak of nature.

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

John Durbin

July 12th 04, 05:05 AM

You preach a pretty good line of self-righteous indignation, right up to
the point where you resort to racist comments. Took you all of one
response to one person you didn't agree with to drop that high tone.
Don't worry though, we all know you're just really frustrated and don't
really hate minorities. And, your choice to post this type of material
into a newsgroup that is largely oriented towards a hobby that while
populated by many different kinds of peoples with different tastes,
backgrounds, and other characteristics also includes a typical
percentage of fanatics that populate it is really just an effort to
educate those people, right? No reason why you'd stop by here otherwise,
surely...

As to your signature, that misogyny keep you up much nights?

JD

Enough Already wrote:

(winkenstein) wrote in message >...
>
>
>
>>all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
>>away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
>>oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
>>so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!
>>
>>
>
>If you really think that way you're just no damned good. Ear plugs
>don't even block super-low bass because it's a felt phenomenon.
>
>But you are correct in saying that boom-rats have infested even the
>most rural areas, including some national parks. It's a contagious
>disease with no conscience. One idiot hears another and thinks "I
>gotta get me some o dat big boom! I gotta get even biggah boom dan dat
>guy so da sluts will love me!" And before you know it, every idiot
>within hearing distance is wasting money on overkill systems. It's
>never been about sound quality.
>
>Inside a car, boom bass is painful to listen to and drowns out the
>rest of the music, so it's mostly about showing off for other IQ-75
>dummies. And all that eardrum-flapping will come back to haunt you
>with tinnitus and deafness as you age. I just wish the rest of us
>didn't have to deal with it in the meantime.
>
>E.A.
>
>http://enough_already.tripod.com/
>If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
>
>

Tony Fernandes

July 12th 04, 08:43 AM

DJ TecThreat wrote: "You're going to honestly sit there and tell me that you
CAN hear 20hz?? I find that hard to believe. If we're not factoring noises
created by the bass (literally non in my case) then 20hz is NOT something
you can just hear unless of course you are a freak of nature."

Nope...no freak of nature here. But unless you have your subs low-passed at
20Hz with a very exceptionally steep crossover, I rest my case.

Tony

--

What's more likely? That an all-powerful mysterious god created the
universe and then decided not to give any proof of his existence? Or, that
he simply doesn't exist at all? And that we created him so that we wouldn't
have to feel so small and alone. -Eleanor Arroway, Contact

Les

July 12th 04, 09:45 AM

"DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM> wrote in message
>
> > Really? You evidently don't know very much about your hobby.
>
> You're going to honestly sit there and tell me that you CAN hear 20hz??
I
> find that hard to believe. If we're not factoring noises created by the
bass
> (literally non in my case) then 20hz is NOT something you can just hear
> unless ofcourse you are a freak of nature.
>
> DJ TecThreat
> The Real Threat
>
>

What Meyer subs are you using? The lowest that the Meyers are designed to
play in their optimum enviroment (Half-space loading, as a pair, driven with
Meyer amps and processing) is 28Hz. Even then they are already at
-6dB. Sure the raw drivers could physically play that low, but not enough to
shake everything or be worthwhile.

On another note, if you only feel the bass and don't hear it then you are
missing an entire octave! Where does it go? And how can you like it?

And what music actually has content that low? I can think of a couple of
things and they are not something you are just going to listen too day in
and out.

So what's the point to have a system that can play that low when not much
even has the content? And is it worth giving up an entire octave to acheive
it? I wouldn't think so, just be responsible and you don't have to worry
about it.

Les

DJ TecThreat

July 12th 04, 02:01 PM

"Tony Fernandes" > wrote in message
...
> Nope...no freak of nature here. But unless you have your subs low-passed
at
> 20Hz with a very exceptionally steep crossover, I rest my case.

Who said i was using a crossover as a crossover?

"Les" > wrote in message
...
> What Meyer subs are you using? The lowest that the Meyers are designed to
> play in their optimum enviroment (Half-space loading, as a pair, driven
with
> Meyer amps and processing) is 28Hz. Even then they are already at
> -6dB. Sure the raw drivers could physically play that low, but not enough
to
> shake everything or be worthwhile.
>
> On another note, if you only feel the bass and don't hear it then you are
> missing an entire octave! Where does it go? And how can you like it?
>
> And what music actually has content that low? I can think of a couple of
> things and they are not something you are just going to listen too day in
> and out.
>
> So what's the point to have a system that can play that low when not much
> even has the content? And is it worth giving up an entire octave to
acheive
> it? I wouldn't think so, just be responsible and you don't have to worry
> about it.

The subs were taken out of 2 700-HP's that had extensive box damage and i
picked them up from a local sound company for around $400 (both) and while i
didnt need them for SR or DJ work i was left with 4 18" perfectly fine
subwoofers so i used them in my vehicle.

The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low using a
31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no content, they
recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've crossed
them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they had
before but its not what i want.

I'm not missing an octave from what i hear becuase also with the 3-way
component system (A/D/S) mounted upfront there are a set of ID 8" subs
mounted in the floor with a fiberglass enclosure that recieve the
frequencies that are missed by my subs and components. The systems has a
very dynamic response.

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

July 12th 04, 02:33 PM

> > Nope...no freak of nature here. But unless you have your subs
low-passed
> at
> > 20Hz with a very exceptionally steep crossover, I rest my case.
>
> Who said i was using a crossover as a crossover?

So you're claiming you're playing just 20 Hz through your subs and nothing
higher? Right...

> The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low using a
> 31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no content,
they
> recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've crossed
> them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they had
> before but its not what i want.

So how do you know they're only producing 20Hz? How did you make the
measurement?

>
> I'm not missing an octave from what i hear becuase also with the 3-way
> component system (A/D/S) mounted upfront there are a set of ID 8" subs
> mounted in the floor with a fiberglass enclosure that recieve the
> frequencies that are missed by my subs and components. The systems has a
> very dynamic response.

A very dynamic response? What does that mean?

Chad Wahls

July 12th 04, 02:57 PM

"DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM> wrote in message
...
> The subs were taken out of 2 700-HP's that had extensive box damage and i
> picked them up from a local sound company for around $400 (both) and while
i
> didnt need them for SR or DJ work i was left with 4 18" perfectly fine
> subwoofers so i used them in my vehicle.
>
> The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low using a
> 31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no content,
they
> recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've crossed
> them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they had
> before but its not what i want.

That box is probably an alignment nightmare. Those drivers have an FS that
is way higher than your assumed tuning freq, with a low crossover and low
tuning you are probably only damaging an otherwise excellent driver that
would sound great for it's intended purpose. Meyer never intended these
drivers to go this low and they get them down to 30Hz with EXTENSIVE
processing and driver control. They claim a usable freq response down to 28
and I imagine that at -10dB.

An EQ is not a crossover. Even with all the faders dumped it only cuts it's
intended amount not X dB per octave unless you are using a LPF function.
With all faders dumped it also will cause an artoutoius phase response
problem.

That said a properly designed enclosure using "low efficiency" long throw
drivers will be more efficient than the Meyer loaded enclosure.

I admire your diligence for using pro audio drivers, I have many times in
the past. Hint, Try them free air. Your power handling MAY decrease a TAD
(poorly aligned box VS free air) but you will find they will play lower and
smoother. Also note (I know you are a pro guy from AAPLS) Alto is now
making a DSP for cars much like the ones we are used to, Peep it:
http://www.altomobile.com/html/processors.html

Got your brain turning now eh? You could drop down to 1 (X) 18", cut Meyer's
box design in half, and process the hell out of it like they do. I'll bet
it will smoke your 4 (X) 18" config you have now. And gain you some cargo
space :)

Chad

DJ TecThreat

July 12th 04, 03:04 PM

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> > > Nope...no freak of nature here. But unless you have your subs
> low-passed
> > at
> > > 20Hz with a very exceptionally steep crossover, I rest my case.
> >
> > Who said i was using a crossover as a crossover?
>
> So you're claiming you're playing just 20 Hz through your subs and nothing
> higher? Right...

I'm only sending them 20hz......

> > The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low using
a
> > 31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no content,
> they
> > recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've
crossed
> > them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they had
> > before but its not what i want.
>
> So how do you know they're only producing 20Hz? How did you make the
> measurement?

I dont know for absolute sure, i've never attempted to measure the system in
tems of frequency response, but naturally if i have almost every other
frequency cut, 20hz is pretty much all they see.

> > I'm not missing an octave from what i hear becuase also with the 3-way
> > component system (A/D/S) mounted upfront there are a set of ID 8" subs
> > mounted in the floor with a fiberglass enclosure that recieve the
> > frequencies that are missed by my subs and components. The systems has
a
> > very dynamic response.
>
> A very dynamic response? What does that mean?

I'm just saying that i'm not missing a significat amount from the actual
recording. My system produces all the intended frequencies at my desired
volume. When i play CD's in my truck i hear all the things i hear when i
play them in my Yorkville system in my house.

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

DJ TecThreat

July 12th 04, 03:10 PM

"Chad Wahls" > wrote in message
...
>
> "DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM> wrote in message
> ...
> > The subs were taken out of 2 700-HP's that had extensive box damage and
i
> > picked them up from a local sound company for around $400 (both) and
while
> i
> > didnt need them for SR or DJ work i was left with 4 18" perfectly fine
> > subwoofers so i used them in my vehicle.
> >
> > The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low using
a
> > 31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no content,
> they
> > recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've
crossed
> > them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they had
> > before but its not what i want.
>
>
> That box is probably an alignment nightmare. Those drivers have an FS
that
> is way higher than your assumed tuning freq, with a low crossover and low
> tuning you are probably only damaging an otherwise excellent driver that
> would sound great for it's intended purpose. Meyer never intended these
> drivers to go this low and they get them down to 30Hz with EXTENSIVE
> processing and driver control. They claim a usable freq response down to
28
> and I imagine that at -10dB.
>
> An EQ is not a crossover. Even with all the faders dumped it only cuts
it's
> intended amount not X dB per octave unless you are using a LPF function.
> With all faders dumped it also will cause an artoutoius phase response
> problem.
>
> That said a properly designed enclosure using "low efficiency" long throw
> drivers will be more efficient than the Meyer loaded enclosure.
>
> I admire your diligence for using pro audio drivers, I have many times in
> the past. Hint, Try them free air. Your power handling MAY decrease a
TAD
> (poorly aligned box VS free air) but you will find they will play lower
and
> smoother. Also note (I know you are a pro guy from AAPLS) Alto is now
> making a DSP for cars much like the ones we are used to, Peep it:
> http://www.altomobile.com/html/processors.html
>
> Got your brain turning now eh? You could drop down to 1 (X) 18", cut
Meyer's
> box design in half, and process the hell out of it like they do. I'll bet
> it will smoke your 4 (X) 18" config you have now. And gain you some cargo
> space :)
>
> Chad

Will have to keep that in mind, thanks for the heads up... When i built
this system i was seriously considering using Pro sound processing in it
(Behringer Ultracurve or DBX Driverack 260) but i didnt, i ended up using
standard car audio crossovers and a couple pro sound EQ's. (DBX 31-Band 1/3
octave stereo and Ashly 31-Band 1/3 Octave stereo) Powered from a high
quality inverter.

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

Chad Wahls

July 12th 04, 03:50 PM

"DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM> wrote in message
...
>

> Will have to keep that in mind, thanks for the heads up... When i built
> this system i was seriously considering using Pro sound processing in it
> (Behringer Ultracurve or DBX Driverack 260) but i didnt, i ended up using
> standard car audio crossovers and a couple pro sound EQ's. (DBX 31-Band
1/3
> octave stereo and Ashly 31-Band 1/3 Octave stereo) Powered from a high
> quality inverter.
>
> DJ TecThreat
> The Real Threat
>
>

One can loose the inverter with a cheap (free) small blown amp. Cut the
rails loose regulate them down to 15V and use them for the EQ's / crossover.
If you go in at the input of the rectifier you don't have to worry about
polarity, With the proper find (real cheapo) the rails are low enough you
don't have to drop them down. If you regulate to 15V then go in after the
rectifier to avoid the .7V loss for each diode (2 not 4, 2 ain't workin)
For crossovers you can pick up a pair of Rane AC23's for cheap and power
them in the same manner, they want 17V, no biggie as you will never hit
+22dB. Rane's website gives instructions as to how to alter the filters to
change their sweep, (you don't have to settle for 70Hz for the lowest sub
XO) Use High quality 1% tolerance components or it will oscillate like a
big dog. Wola, cheap power supply, (no 120V in car). And crossovers off
Ebay. Going digital this way would be more difficult as you would have to
derive 3.3V, 5V, audio rails, and sometimes isolated 12V. It can be done
using the HV and LV rails of a cheapo smoker but regulate them very well on
the digital side, mistakes become expensive!

Chad

July 12th 04, 04:41 PM

> > So you're claiming you're playing just 20 Hz through your subs and
nothing
> > higher? Right...
>
> I'm only sending them 20hz......

You play 20 Hz tones all day? How boring...

>
> > > The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low
using
> a
> > > 31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no content,
> > they
> > > recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've
> crossed
> > > them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they
had
> > > before but its not what i want.
> >
> > So how do you know they're only producing 20Hz? How did you make the
> > measurement?
>
> I dont know for absolute sure, i've never attempted to measure the system
in
> tems of frequency response, but naturally if i have almost every other
> frequency cut, 20hz is pretty much all they see.

How are you cutting the frequencies? Are you using a 50th order digital
filter?

>
> > > I'm not missing an octave from what i hear becuase also with the 3-way
> > > component system (A/D/S) mounted upfront there are a set of ID 8" subs
> > > mounted in the floor with a fiberglass enclosure that recieve the
> > > frequencies that are missed by my subs and components. The systems
has
> a
> > > very dynamic response.
> >
> > A very dynamic response? What does that mean?
>
> I'm just saying that i'm not missing a significat amount from the actual
> recording. My system produces all the intended frequencies at my desired
> volume. When i play CD's in my truck i hear all the things i hear when i
> play them in my Yorkville system in my house.

Just how much 20Hz content is "intended"?

DJ TecThreat

July 12th 04, 04:50 PM

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> > > So you're claiming you're playing just 20 Hz through your subs and
> nothing
> > > higher? Right...
> >
> > I'm only sending them 20hz......
>
> You play 20 Hz tones all day? How boring...

No, actually the subs only see 20hz

> > > > The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low
> using
> > a
> > > > 31-band 1/3 octave eq. And despite that fact that their is no
content,
> > > they
> > > > recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've
> > crossed
> > > > them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they
> had
> > > > before but its not what i want.
> > >
> > > So how do you know they're only producing 20Hz? How did you make the
> > > measurement?
> >
> > I dont know for absolute sure, i've never attempted to measure the
system
> in
> > tems of frequency response, but naturally if i have almost every other
> > frequency cut, 20hz is pretty much all they see.
>
> How are you cutting the frequencies? Are you using a 50th order digital
> filter?

Crossover and 1/3 octave EQ

> >
> > > > I'm not missing an octave from what i hear becuase also with the
3-way
> > > > component system (A/D/S) mounted upfront there are a set of ID 8"
subs
> > > > mounted in the floor with a fiberglass enclosure that recieve the
> > > > frequencies that are missed by my subs and components. The systems
> has
> > a
> > > > very dynamic response.
> > >
> > > A very dynamic response? What does that mean?
> >
> > I'm just saying that i'm not missing a significat amount from the actual
> > recording. My system produces all the intended frequencies at my
desired
> > volume. When i play CD's in my truck i hear all the things i hear when i
> > play them in my Yorkville system in my house.
>
> Just how much 20Hz content is "intended"?

The other speakers in the system produce the frequencies above 20 hz...

DJ TecThreat
The Real Threat

July 12th 04, 04:56 PM

> > You play 20 Hz tones all day? How boring...
>
> No, actually the subs only see 20hz

No, they're not. You should learn how filters work.

> > How are you cutting the frequencies? Are you using a 50th order digital
> > filter?
>
> Crossover and 1/3 octave EQ

Unless you custom designed this filter to have an incredible rolloff, then
this isn't cutting everything above 20 Hz. You can do this maybe with a
50th order filter. Most likely, your filter is 2nd order, or at best 4th
order. And you also don't know for sure where your crossover point is.

> > Just how much 20Hz content is "intended"?
>
> The other speakers in the system produce the frequencies above 20 hz...

For most types of music, the 20Hz and below band usually contains a tiny
amount of the total signal. You need maybe a watt to reproduce it. Want me
to prove it? Send me a song and I'll tell you how much <20Hz content it
contains.

My bull**** meter is going off big time...

Les

July 12th 04, 09:07 PM

"DJ TecThreat" <beaniATcharterDOTnetNOSPAM>
>
> The subs were taken out of 2 700-HP's that had extensive box damage and i
> picked them up from a local sound company for around $400 (both) and while
i
> didnt need them for SR or DJ work i was left with 4 18" perfectly fine
> subwoofers so i used them in my vehicle.
>
> The new boxes are tuned that low and the subs are crossed that low using a
> 31-band 1/3 octave eq.

An EQ is NOT a crossover, nor does it function as such. You can cut every
fader above 20Hz and you still are only cutting 12dB max on the units you
have, So they will still allow those frequencies to pass just 12dB lower. So
by the time you got the subs loud enough to amplify any 20Hz material you
would be playing the other freqs as well. And then the phase response
issues... jeez those poor subs. Put the output on an o-scope and play some
noise through it you would be surprised at what you see.

And despite that fact that their is no content, they
> recieve quite a bit and produce a very smooth low toned bass i've crossed
> them higher out of experiment and they produce "more" than when they had
> before but its not what i want.
>
> I'm not missing an octave from what i hear becuase also with the 3-way
> component system (A/D/S) mounted upfront there are a set of ID 8" subs
> mounted in the floor with a fiberglass enclosure that recieve the
> frequencies that are missed by my subs and components. The systems has a
> very dynamic response.

Do you really think that the ID8s are going to handle content from 40hz to
80hz with reasonable output? I don't think so. I have some IDQ8s and they
are great as middbass drivers (or smaller lower powered subs) But they are
not going to cover what you are asking them to.

DJ, you may have you system setup this way, I don't know. But I do know that
it will not work the way you are saying it does based on the information
provided.

Also, just because it's not heard doesn't mean it is not annoying.
Earthquakes are not heard (buildings and other things shifting make the
noises) but they are damned annoying things, just ask anyone who's been in
one.
Les

Steve Grauman

July 12th 04, 09:17 PM

>Also, just because it's not heard doesn't mean it is not annoying.
>Earthquakes are not heard (buildings and other things shifting make the
>noises) but they are damned annoying things, just ask anyone who's been in
>one.

The Northridge Earthquake sucked....

Bruce Chang

July 12th 04, 10:42 PM

"Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
...
> >Also, just because it's not heard doesn't mean it is not annoying.
> >Earthquakes are not heard (buildings and other things shifting make the
> >noises) but they are damned annoying things, just ask anyone who's been
in
> >one.
>
> The Northridge Earthquake sucked....

I was under the impression everyone loved it.

winkenstein

July 12th 04, 10:56 PM

O.K., O.K., let's drop this subject, and yes you are right - i
appologize for my lack of concern for the people who do not like or
want to hear my preferences' in music (boy - this sure is a touchy
subject). and i appologize for my improper spelling - that is an area
i have never been blessed in. the subject of loud boomy systems
bothers some individuals, and to those that it does bother I apologize
(for myself and everyone else). so... all of us out there (NOT JUST
ME) Need to learn to be more considerate of the others surrounding us,
all of us need to get along, or this world will cease to exsist. I
appologize to anyone i've upset (and i'm sure the rest of us out there
do so also).

now- let's move on to another subject - and try to put this all behind
us.

K? thank you.

Andy Weaks

July 13th 04, 12:09 AM

Bruce Chang wrote:
> "Steve Grauman" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>Also, just because it's not heard doesn't mean it is not annoying.
>>>Earthquakes are not heard (buildings and other things shifting make the
>>>noises) but they are damned annoying things, just ask anyone who's been
>
> in
>
>>>one.
>>
>>The Northridge Earthquake sucked....
>
>
> I was under the impression everyone loved it.
>
>

most people on the east coast did

FHLH002

July 16th 04, 05:20 AM

it's we're.

and it's ASSHOLES like you that give this hobby a bad name.

FHLH.... ****ing asshats.

"winkenstein" > wrote in message
om...
> all I got to say is - if it bothers you that much, Why don't you move
> away to some place where that problem doesn't exist?
> oh wait- were EVERYWHERE!!!
> so maybe you should consider looking for a pair of EAR PLUGS!

FHLH002

July 16th 04, 05:23 AM

but what if his hobby is "forcing others to listen to my crappy music"?

FHLH....... it's kids that don't drink and do drugs that give this hobby a
bad image....

"MZ" > wrote in message
...
> > NO; I am not really that dumb, I AM Just annoyed by all controversy
> > that is caused by this Hobby,
> >
> > I Do Not Go Out Of My Way To Annoy People - My Parents and Neighbors
> > both have repeatedly said, "I Would Much Rather See You Enjoying
> > Yourself and Your Hobbies and Spend Yourself Broke on Your Car and
> > it's Stereo, Than Buy an Once of Alchohol or Drugs!!!"
>
> But some people, myself included, couldn't care less what drugs you do or
> what hobbies you enjoy. These people don't want to listen to your stupid
> music. It's really that simple.
>
>

Barbell Fiend

July 17th 04, 08:09 AM

STFU already. This forum wasn't set up to have aggrivated spams flame a
hobby they don't understand. Take it somewhere else.

--
Barbell Fiend
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ALKI

July 17th 04, 05:57 PM

MZ Wrote:
> > Instead off trying to gather up a bunch of people to point the
> > finger, why not help relocate the noise? get involved in it and
> help
> > propogate events where people can go compete and play their stereos
> as
> loud
> > as they want without disturbing people in their homes.
>
> Why should he? It's not his responsibility. Don't feed the imbeciles
> that
> get off on "competing".
>
> I've never been able to figure out why people feel the need to
> "compete"
> anyway. If you're into competitions, play a sport. Don't buy other
> people's equipment and have other people install it and then claim to
> go out
> and "compete" with it. If you designed and built all the equipment,
> then
> maybe you wouldn't look so foolish flaunting it.
>
> (DJ, by "you" I don't mean you specifically. I mean "competitors".
> Then
> again, if the shoe fits...)

Do you make all of your own clothes? If not, quit flaunting them. Go
naked. I live on a golf course, golfers hit their balls into my house
non-stop. Do I cry about it...no. Quit mowing your grass then..too
loud!! Chainsaws..too loud!!...Motorcycles..too loud!! Can't play any
sports either..all types of equipment is made, to compete with!!

--
ALKI
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July 17th 04, 10:17 PM

> STFU already. This forum wasn't set up to have aggrivated spams flame a
> hobby they don't understand. Take it somewhere else.

He didn't post it to your forum, genius. He posted it to rec.audio.car, an
unmoderated usenet group. If you have a problem with the content, tell the
maintainer of your stupid ass forum not to grab posts from rec.audio.car
anymore.

As far as its appropriateness on r.a.c., it's entirely on-topic.

mgg

July 18th 04, 04:10 AM

"a hobby they don't understand"????

I don't understand that statement! Do you mean, you feel it's perfectly
acceptable to wake me at night, or rattle my mirrors at a stoplight with
your THUMP??? I don't give a rats ass what ANYONE'S "hobby" is, but if it
infringes on the rights or privacy of others, it's not a hobby, it's a
NUISANCE!

--Mike

"Barbell Fiend" > wrote in
message ...
>
> STFU already. This forum wasn't set up to have aggrivated spams flame a
> hobby they don't understand. Take it somewhere else.
>
>
> --
> Barbell Fiend
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Barbell Fiend's Profile:
> http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/member.php?userid=29413
> View this thread:
> http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=194964
>

July 18th 04, 04:34 PM

> Do you make all of your own clothes? If not, quit flaunting them.

I don't flaunt them. Let me guess...you're one of those dopes who pays $100
for sneakers, right?

> Go
> naked. I live on a golf course, golfers hit their balls into my house
> non-stop. Do I cry about it...no. Quit mowing your grass then..too
> loud!! Chainsaws..too loud!!...Motorcycles..too loud!! Can't play any
> sports either..all types of equipment is made, to compete with!!

Obviously, you missed my point completely. That's to be expected by a CAFer
I suppose...

Chris Guynn

July 19th 04, 10:31 PM

"mgg" > wrote in message
om...
> "a hobby they don't understand"????
>
> I don't understand that statement! Do you mean, you feel it's perfectly
> acceptable to wake me at night, or rattle my mirrors at a stoplight with
> your THUMP??? I don't give a rats ass what ANYONE'S "hobby" is, but if it
> infringes on the rights or privacy of others, it's not a hobby, it's a
> NUISANCE!

I completely agree with what you said, except that this really isn't a
privacy issue.

FHLH002

July 21st 04, 06:30 PM

do I really have to reply to such an asshat?

FHLH.... it's not a webforum , ****stick.

"Barbell Fiend" > wrote in
message ...
>
> STFU already. This forum wasn't set up to have aggrivated spams flame a
> hobby they don't understand. Take it somewhere else.
>
>
> --
> Barbell Fiend
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Barbell Fiend's Profile:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/member.php?userid=29413
> View this thread:
http://www.caraudioforum.com/vbb3/showthread.php?t=194964
>

winkenstein

July 21st 04, 11:02 PM

> > do I really have to reply to such an asshat?

> > FHLH.... it's not a webforum , ****stick.

> > STFU already. This forum wasn't set up to have aggrivated spams flame a
> > hobby they don't understand. Take it somewhere else.

THANK YOU, I AGREE!!!
GET THE **** OFF OF THIS SUBJECT, WE'RE ALL GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF IT.

move on to something new already, don't bug us about it anymore.

oh, and by the way..... FHLH, the word "asshat"
that is such a funny and useful word "I Like It!"
i'm gonna say it all day at work, asshat, asshat, asshat!