Henry Kloss-Late And, To Me, Unlamented [Archive]

Howard Ferstler

April 23rd 05, 11:58 PM

wrote:
>
> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>
> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.

The things you do not know are remarkable. From the current
issue of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound:

KLOSS, HENRY, February 21, 1929 - January 31, 2002. Born in
Altoona, Pennsylvania, Audio Hall of Fame member and Emmy
award winner Henry Kloss founded or helped to found five
different and successful electronics companies, and is
justifiably considered to be a legendary figure in
consumer-audio (and video) history.

In 1954, Kloss and Edgar Villchur co-founded Acoustic
Research, Inc. (Kloss had been one of Villchur's students at
NYU, and had previously been building Baurch-Lang
loudspeakers for mail-order sale). The company's first
product, the model AR-1 loudspeaker, incorporated the first
acoustic-suspension woofer. Villchur invented and patented
the acoustic-suspension woofer system; however, Kloss
quickly realized the value of Villchur's invention, and was
responsible for most of the mechanical and production design
work on the AR-1 loudspeaker. By 1957, Kloss left AR to help
found KLH Research and Development Corporation. While at
KLH, Kloss (with Malcolm Low and Tony Hofmann) produced
acoustic-suspension speaker systems under license to
Acoustic Research and designed the first high-quality,
portable stereo system and the first high-fidelity table
radio, the Model Eight.

Kloss sold his share in KLH in 1967, and went on to form
Advent Corporation, where he worked with both Tomlinson
Holman and Andy Kotsatos, who quickly became fine designers
in their own rights. Kloss's primary interest in starting
the new company involved the development of a high-quality
front-projection video system. However, in order to fund his
research he also designed and marketed the low-cost but very
high-quality (and also very popular) Advent line of
loudspeakers, many of which became borderline audio-cult
items for some hi-fi enthusiasts. In addition, the company
produced the first high-fidelity audio cassette deck, the
Model 200, which worked as well as it did, because it
employed Dolby noise reduction circuitry. In 1977, Kloss
became founder and president of Kloss Video Corporation,
which marketed a refined version of the projection TV system
he had worked on and sold while at Advent.

In 1988, Kloss and Tom DeVesto joined forces to form
Cambridge Soundworks, which continues to specialize in an
assortment of consumer-electronics products (including
conventional and powered speaker systems that were designed
by Kloss) sold by mail order. Kloss left Cambridge
Soundworks after selling it in 1997 to Creative Labs, and in
2000, he unveiled an elegant tabletop radio, the Model One,
from yet another company, Tivoli Audio. Kloss was a giant in
the audio industry (and even won an Emmy for his video
designs), and it could be said that he was one of the
originators of modern, affordable, and high-quality consumer
audio products.

BOSE, AMAR, November 2, 1929-. Bose has S.B., S.M., and
Sc.D. degrees in electrical engineering from Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, with the latter degree earned in
1956. From 1957 to 1960, he was an assistant professor at
the institution, becoming an associate professor in 1960,
and a full professor in 1966. From 1958 until 1964, he
worked as a consultant for Epsco, Edgerton Germeshausen and
Grier, and Standard Oil. In 1964, he founded the Bose
Corporation, one of the largest and most successful
audio-equipment manufacturers in the world. He is currently
Chairman of the Board and Technical Director of that
company.

Bose holds numerous patents in the fields of acoustics,
electronics, nonlinear systems, and communication theory,
and his research in those areas led to the formation of the
company that bears his name. Prior to the company entering
the consumer-audio field, Dr. Bose's electronic patents
formed the basis of the research and development that Bose
secured with the armed forces, NASA, the DOT, and the AEC.

He is a Fellow of the Institute of Electrical and
Electronics Engineers, and a member of the Audio Engineering
Society, and also has an honorary Doctorate of Music degree
from the Berklee College of Music (1994) and an honorary
Doctorate of Science degree from Framingham State College
(1990). Numerous other honors and awards include the Western
Electric Fund Award (N.E. Section), the Baker Memorial Award
for Outstanding Teacher (MIT), membership in The Audio Hall
of Fame, membership in the National Academy of Engineering,
membership in the American Academy of Arts and Sciences,
membership in the Radio Hall of Fame, and listings in Who's
Who in the World and American Men and Women of Science. Dr.
Bose has also published numerous articles in MIT Research
Laboratory of Electronics, Technology Review, International
Symposium on Circuit and Information Theory, and other
journals and conference reports, and co-authored
Introductory Network Theory with Kenneth Stevens (Harper and
Row, 1965).

Howard Ferstler (who wrote both articles)

[email protected]

April 24th 05, 01:35 AM

> The things you do not know are remarkable. From the current
> issue of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound:
>
> KLOSS, HENRY, February 21, 1929 - January 31, 2002. Born in
> Altoona, Pennsylvania, Audio Hall of Fame member and Emmy
> award winner Henry Kloss founded or helped to found five
> different and successful electronics companies, and is
> justifiably considered to be a legendary figure in
> consumer-audio (and video) history.

This is the antithesis of high end audio! He's the Strasberg of Boston
Blando!!

But his products were much better than the stuff at Wal-mart today.

Joseph Oberlander

April 24th 05, 03:12 AM

Howard Ferstler wrote:

> wrote:
>
>> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>>say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>>
>> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
>>guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>>tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>
>
> The things you do not know are remarkable. From the current
> issue of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound:

(snip)

I think he's like so many people - he looks only a CSW.
IMO, there's nothing wrong with making budget speakers
even if you could make $10,000 ones. There's a need
for better sound than Bose at reasonable prices.

Last I checked, the CSW setups were very affordable
and are well, what you pay for - an inexpensive basic
setup that gets the job done. I suspect that Kloss
was upset at one time looking at the crap from Radio
Shack, Sears, and others in the late 80's and wanted
to make stuff that would hopefully get people interested
in music. Afterall, everyone has to start with a basic
system at least once in their life. Why should it sound
like garbage and cost a fortune?

Sound like envy or trolling to me. Most people would
be lucky to accomplish as mush as Kloss did.

Joseph Oberlander

April 24th 05, 03:24 AM

wrote:

>>The things you do not know are remarkable. From the current
>>issue of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound:
>>
>>KLOSS, HENRY, February 21, 1929 - January 31, 2002. Born in
>>Altoona, Pennsylvania, Audio Hall of Fame member and Emmy
>>award winner Henry Kloss founded or helped to found five
>>different and successful electronics companies, and is
>>justifiably considered to be a legendary figure in
>>consumer-audio (and video) history.
>
>
>
> This is the antithesis of high end audio! He's the Strasberg of Boston
> Blando!!
>
> But his products were much better than the stuff at Wal-mart today.

Let's go back in time to 1986-1988. This was the era where most
of the low end was ruled by Sears, Radio Shack, and many many
simmilar systems. They were dreadful even by the standards of the
time, with even 8 track players in some "systems" at the time.

I had one of these ill-fated pieces of junk as my first system
in the early 80s and it was 1/8 inch particle board and a 6
inch speaker that was worse than the family car. $300-$400
for stuff that was barely better than the crappy tapes Radio
Shack used to sell. There was high-fi and there was no-fi,
with nothing inbetween.

CSW...
The first system I heard from them was about 1990 - hooked up
to my friend's computer. For a 2.1 system, it was amazing
compared to the utter junk we all had grown up.

$100. I'd have bought one myself if I didn't have a big
rack of equipment myself by then.

FF to today. Now, they aren't as revolutionary, to be sure,
but you can get that same 2.1 setup for your computer or just
to hook into a walkman or simmilar for $59. Given the inflation
since 1990, that's like paying $40 back then. Dirt cheap sound
that's worlds better than the crap we could be listening to
in that price-range. Or, spend $100 and get a decent 5.1 setup.
It's not serious audio, but it will give you surround sound,
which is better than not having surround sound, afterall.

Could you build a 5.1 setup for $100?

Robert Morein

April 24th 05, 04:26 AM

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>
> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>
You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH

It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than about
30 audio things.
Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally used in
CRT projection TVs ?

Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
designer for AR ?

In 1997, Kloss received an Emmy for
"'Outstanding Achievement in Technological Advancement - Pioneering
Development of 3-CRT Video Projectors."

Arny Krueger

April 24th 05, 11:29 AM

wrote:
> No, I might envy the late Paul Klipsch, or maybe David Manley if he
> was still married to that choice piece of ass EveAnna.

Cal, If you went on a date with Eveanna, she'd break it off and hand
it back to you with a big smile on her face!

Clyde Slick

April 24th 05, 04:14 PM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>> No, I might envy the late Paul Klipsch, or maybe David Manley if he
>> was still married to that choice piece of ass EveAnna.
>
> Cal, If you went on a date with Eveanna, she'd break it off and hand
> it back to you with a big smile on her face!
>
>

She would pull yours off with a pair of tweezers.

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Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 06:23 PM

"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> wrote:
>>> No, I might envy the late Paul Klipsch, or maybe David Manley if he
>>> was still married to that choice piece of ass EveAnna.
>>
>> Cal, If you went on a date with Eveanna, she'd break it off and hand
>> it back to you with a big smile on her face!
>>
>>
>
> She would pull yours off with a pair of tweezers.

This is by far the funniest thing you've ever said!

LOL!

EveAnna rocks!

Cheers (you old goat),

Margaret

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 06:25 PM

"Howard Ferstler" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
>>
>> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>>
>> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
>> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>
> The things you do not know are remarkable. From the current
> issue of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound:
>

I wonder what loser wrote this crap?

Cheers,

Margaret

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 06:58 PM

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>>
>> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
>> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>>
> You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
> Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH
>

Ah, finally some valid references as opposed to Ferstler's garbage. Thanks!

> It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than about
> 30 audio things.
> Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally used in
> CRT projection TVs ?
>
> Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
> designer for AR ?
>

I always thought the CSW speakers sounded oddly colored with really bad bass
(like in incompetent car audio). Similarly his Tivoli stuff was just as bad
as it was good. I bet the old guy just wanted to make some money later in
life with the marketing savvy of Mr. DeVesto (?) However, this garbage does
not diminish his other accomplishments.

Cheers

Margaret

Lionel

April 24th 05, 07:14 PM

Margaret von B. a écrit :
> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message

....

> (you old goat),

Few correction :
In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat...
This is why so many people make the confusion.

;-)

> Margaret
>
>
>

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 07:36 PM

Lionel

April 24th 05, 07:41 PM

Margaret von B. a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>
>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>
>>...
>>
>>
>>>(you old goat),
>>
>>Few correction :
>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is why
>>so many people make the confusion.
>>
>
>
>
> Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.

I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)

Robert Morein

April 24th 05, 07:48 PM

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> >> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
> >> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
> >>
> >> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
> >> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
> >> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
> >>
> > You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
> > Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH
> >
>
> Ah, finally some valid references as opposed to Ferstler's garbage.
Thanks!
>
> > It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than
about
> > 30 audio things.
> > Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally used
in
> > CRT projection TVs ?
> >
> > Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
> > designer for AR ?
> >
>
> I always thought the CSW speakers sounded oddly colored with really bad
bass
> (like in incompetent car audio). Similarly his Tivoli stuff was just as
bad
> as it was good. I bet the old guy just wanted to make some money later in
> life with the marketing savvy of Mr. DeVesto (?) However, this garbage
does
> not diminish his other accomplishments.
>
> Cheers
>
> Margaret
>
Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end, but that
has happened even to Robert Crumb.

Clyde Slick

April 24th 05, 07:56 PM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Margaret von B. a écrit :
>> "Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>> (you old goat),
>
> Few correction :
> In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is why
> so many people make the confusion.
>
> ;-)
>

I had better stay away from Pinkerton!

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 08:16 PM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> Margaret von B. a écrit :
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>>
>>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>(you old goat),
>>>
>>>Few correction :
>>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is why
>>>so many people make the confusion.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.
>
> I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)

As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!

MvB

ScottW

April 24th 05, 08:19 PM

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>>
>> I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>
> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!

He may have had one... once upon a time.

ScottW

Robert Morein

April 24th 05, 08:21 PM

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Margaret von B. a écrit :
> >> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>
> >>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
> >>>
> >>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
> >>>
> >>>...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>(you old goat),
> >>>
> >>>Few correction :
> >>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is
why
> >>>so many people make the confusion.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.
> >
> > I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>
> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>
> MvB
>
All the French know about vaginas.
Remember, French is the language of love.

Lionel

April 24th 05, 08:22 PM

Margaret von B. a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>>...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>(you old goat),
>>>>
>>>>Few correction :
>>>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is why
>>>>so many people make the confusion.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.
>>
>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>
>
> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!

As if you can remember what it is !

;-)

Lionel

April 24th 05, 08:24 PM

ScottW a écrit :
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>
>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>
>
> He may have had one... once upon a time.

May I speak to your wife ?

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 08:26 PM

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > > wrote in message
>> > oups.com...
>> >> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>> >> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>> >>
>> >> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great
>> >> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>> >> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>> >>
>> > You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
>> > Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH
>> >
>>
>> Ah, finally some valid references as opposed to Ferstler's garbage.
> Thanks!
>>
>> > It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than
> about
>> > 30 audio things.
>> > Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally used
> in
>> > CRT projection TVs ?
>> >
>> > Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
>> > designer for AR ?
>> >
>>
>> I always thought the CSW speakers sounded oddly colored with really bad
> bass
>> (like in incompetent car audio). Similarly his Tivoli stuff was just as
> bad
>> as it was good. I bet the old guy just wanted to make some money later in
>> life with the marketing savvy of Mr. DeVesto (?) However, this garbage
> does
>> not diminish his other accomplishments.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Margaret
>>
> Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end, but
> that
> has happened even to Robert Crumb.
>
>

Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may be
partial.

I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)

Cheers,

Margaret

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 08:31 PM

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Margaret von B. a écrit :
>> >> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>
>> >>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>> >>>
>> >>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>> >>>
>> >>>...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>(you old goat),
>> >>>
>> >>>Few correction :
>> >>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is
> why
>> >>>so many people make the confusion.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.
>> >
>> > I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>
>> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>
>> MvB
>>
> All the French know about vaginas.
> Remember, French is the language of love.
>
>

French? Seems like braindamaged more than anything.

Cheers,

Margaret

George M. Middius

April 24th 05, 08:38 PM

Margaret von B. said:

> French? Seems like braindamaged more than anything.

Kroopologism will do that to a person.

George M. Middius

April 24th 05, 08:39 PM

Margaret von B. said:

> > Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end, but
> > that has happened even to Robert Crumb.

> Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may be
> partial.
>
> I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)

This is Bobo's latest theme.... you may have noticed yesterday he called
Krooger and Fester "cartoonish".

Robert Morein

April 24th 05, 08:40 PM

"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> > ...
> >>
> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > > wrote in message
> >> > oups.com...
> >> >> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
> >> >> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
> >> >>
> >> >> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a
great
> >> >> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
> >> >> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
> >> >>
> >> > You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
> >> > Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH
> >> >
> >>
> >> Ah, finally some valid references as opposed to Ferstler's garbage.
> > Thanks!
> >>
> >> > It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than
> > about
> >> > 30 audio things.
> >> > Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally
used
> > in
> >> > CRT projection TVs ?
> >> >
> >> > Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
> >> > designer for AR ?
> >> >
> >>
> >> I always thought the CSW speakers sounded oddly colored with really bad
> > bass
> >> (like in incompetent car audio). Similarly his Tivoli stuff was just as
> > bad
> >> as it was good. I bet the old guy just wanted to make some money later
in
> >> life with the marketing savvy of Mr. DeVesto (?) However, this garbage
> > does
> >> not diminish his other accomplishments.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> Margaret
> >>
> > Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end, but
> > that
> > has happened even to Robert Crumb.
> >
> >
>
> Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may be
> partial.
>
> I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Margaret
>
http://www.crumbproducts.com/

Margaret von B.

April 24th 05, 08:47 PM

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > > wrote in message
>> >> > oups.com...
>> >> >> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>> >> >> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a
> great
>> >> >> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>> >> >> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>> >> >>
>> >> > You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
>> >> > Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Ah, finally some valid references as opposed to Ferstler's garbage.
>> > Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> > It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than
>> > about
>> >> > 30 audio things.
>> >> > Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally
> used
>> > in
>> >> > CRT projection TVs ?
>> >> >
>> >> > Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
>> >> > designer for AR ?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I always thought the CSW speakers sounded oddly colored with really
>> >> bad
>> > bass
>> >> (like in incompetent car audio). Similarly his Tivoli stuff was just
>> >> as
>> > bad
>> >> as it was good. I bet the old guy just wanted to make some money later
> in
>> >> life with the marketing savvy of Mr. DeVesto (?) However, this garbage
>> > does
>> >> not diminish his other accomplishments.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Margaret
>> >>
>> > Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end, but
>> > that
>> > has happened even to Robert Crumb.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may be
>> partial.
>>
>> I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Margaret
>>
> http://www.crumbproducts.com/
>
>

<sigh>

You know, Bob, this is exactly the kind of response that'll land you in the
"hivies". Right, George?

Cheers,

Margaret

Lionel

April 24th 05, 08:50 PM

Margaret von B. a écrit :
> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>>>
>>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(you old goat),
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Few correction :
>>>>>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is
>>
>>why
>>
>>>>>>so many people make the confusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.
>>>>
>>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>
>>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>>
>>>MvB
>>>
>>
>>All the French know about vaginas.
>>Remember, French is the language of love.
>>
>>
>
>
> French? Seems like braindamaged more than anything.

Why do you say that Maggy ?
Don't you think it's time for you to break this frustrating
vicious circle ?

;-)

ScottW

April 24th 05, 08:57 PM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> ScottW a écrit :
>> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>
>>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>
>>
>> He may have had one... once upon a time.
>
> May I speak to your wife ?

Let see... I asked but she said "No, why do I want to speak to Lionel the
crazy frenchman?"

Smart woman.

ScottW

Lionel

April 24th 05, 08:57 PM

Robert Morein a écrit :
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>>
>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Margaret von B. a écrit :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Clyde Slick" > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>>...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>(you old goat),
>>>>>
>>>>>Few correction :
>>>>>In fact Sackman is a sheep which stinks like a billy goat... This is
>
> why
>
>>>>>so many people make the confusion.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Nah. This smells like a rodent-breath.
>>>
>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>
>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>
>>MvB
>>
>
> All the French know about vaginas.
> Remember, French is the language of love.

You are barking up the wrong tree Bob. Maggy isn't looking
for romantism, just a complaisant sex therapist... ;-)

Lionel

April 24th 05, 09:03 PM

ScottW a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>ScottW a écrit :
>>
>>>"Margaret von B." > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>>He may have had one... once upon a time.
>>
>>May I speak to your wife ?
>
>
> Let see... I asked but she said "No, why do I want to speak to Lionel the
> crazy frenchman?"
>
> Smart woman.

Shy woman. I appreciate.

;-)

Robert Morein

April 24th 05, 09:29 PM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Margaret von B. said:
>
> > > Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end,
but
> > > that has happened even to Robert Crumb.
>
> > Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may
be
> > partial.
> >
> > I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)
>
> This is Bobo's latest theme.... you may have noticed yesterday he called
> Krooger and Fester "cartoonish".
>
Kafkaesque?

Lionel

April 24th 05, 09:40 PM

Robert Morein a écrit :

> "George M. Middius" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>
>>Margaret von B. said:
>>
>>
>>>>Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end,
>
> but
>
>>>>that has happened even to Robert Crumb.
>>
>>>Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may
>
> be
>
>>>partial.
>>>
>>>I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)
>>
>>This is Bobo's latest theme.... you may have noticed yesterday he called
>>Krooger and Fester "cartoonish".
>>
>
> Kafkaesque?

Bob, don't be too solicitous with our Betty Boop's intelligence.

[email protected]

April 24th 05, 09:59 PM

Margaret von B. wrote:
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> news:426

<snip>
> >
> > I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>
> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>
> MvB

Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?

Lionel

April 24th 05, 10:10 PM

a écrit :
> Margaret von B. wrote:
>
>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>>news:426
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>
>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>
>>MvB
>
>
> Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
> about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
> might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?

It seems that the charm hasn't worked with our George "Betty
Boop" Middius...
....Perhaps he doesn't like fish.

Mike McKelvy

April 24th 05, 11:47 PM

Cal sez:

Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you

might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?
__________________________________________________ __________________

You know what they say: ONce you get by the smell, you've got it
licked. :-)

Mike McKelvy

April 24th 05, 11:56 PM

Cal demonstrates how his head is lodged firmly up his ass, once again
with the following burst of ****e.

> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.

Yeah, all he did was become instrumental in making audio quality better
and more accessible to more people.

>My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a great

>guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.

You really think his defining moment came from Cambridge Sound works?
You ****ing idiot.

Things like the Kloss Nova Beam video, and being one of the founders of
AR speakers should count for something, not to mention KLH, which in
the beginning was one of the best audio manufacturers around.

Your ignorance of audio history is only exceeded by your complete lack
of class.

Clyde Slick

April 25th 05, 12:09 AM

"Robert Morein" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >>
>> >> "Robert Morein" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > > wrote in message
>> >> > oups.com...
>> >> >> I don't wish ill on anyone, but he's already dead, so I have to
>> >> >> say-Henry Kloss putz putz putz! Phooey on you! He was a schmuck.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> My apologies in advance to his personal friends, maybe he was a
> great
>> >> >> guy in person. But his so called great audio legacy-phooey. I am so
>> >> >> tired of hearing how great he was. He was as bad as Bose AFAIK.
>> >> >>
>> >> > You mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kloss
>> >> > Or this guy? http://print.google.com/print/doc?articleid=C1KwAM3L9eH
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Ah, finally some valid references as opposed to Ferstler's garbage.
>> > Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> > It's obvious he did nothing in his life worth mentioning, other than
>> > about
>> >> > 30 audio things.
>> >> > Did you know he invented the Novatron projection tube, universally
> used
>> > in
>> >> > CRT projection TVs ?
>> >> >
>> >> > Did you know he invented the acoustic suspension principle, as chief
>> >> > designer for AR ?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> I always thought the CSW speakers sounded oddly colored with really
>> >> bad
>> > bass
>> >> (like in incompetent car audio). Similarly his Tivoli stuff was just
>> >> as
>> > bad
>> >> as it was good. I bet the old guy just wanted to make some money later
> in
>> >> life with the marketing savvy of Mr. DeVesto (?) However, this garbage
>> > does
>> >> not diminish his other accomplishments.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >>
>> >> Margaret
>> >>
>> > Well, sure. He was brilliant in the beginning, co-opted in the end, but
>> > that
>> > has happened even to Robert Crumb.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Bob Crump of CRC Builders? Please explain. I have a Blowtorch so I may be
>> partial.
>>
>> I did notice the spelling but this IS a AUDIO newsgroup after all. :-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Margaret
>>
> http://www.crumbproducts.com/
>
>

Eggs Ackley

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

[email protected]

April 25th 05, 01:20 AM

Your lack of class is only compounded by your lack of history. AR
built two things- a conceptually valid but somewhat nastily built
turntable which provided Merrill a platform to upgrade and Linn a
product to copy-via a MM-to-Deb-to-Madge roundabout-at improved spec
and grossly inflated price, and the Boston Bland line of speakers which
traded off efficiency-and naturalness and all sorts of subtle sonic
virtue-for bass extension out of a cheap-to-manufacture,
spouse-accepted small wood box (which we today call the "monkey
coffin".)

But this sort of verbiage is your stock in trade, isn't it, McKelvy?

EddieM

April 25th 05, 01:24 AM

> Mike McKelvy wrote
> Cal sez:
>
>
>
> Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
> about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
>
> might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?
> __________________________________________________ _____
>
> You know what they say: ONce you get by the smell, you've got it
> licked. :-)

This explain your disturbing compulsion to smell women's panty when
no one is looking.

EddieM

April 25th 05, 01:43 AM

> Signal wrote
>> EddieM" emitted :
>
>
>
>>> Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
>>> about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
>>>
>>> might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?
>>> __________________________________________________ _____
>>>
>>> You know what they say: ONce you get by the smell, you've got it
>>> licked. :-)
>>
>>
>>
>>This explain your disturbing compulsion to smell women's panty when
>>no one is looking.
>
> Mickey insists on them being **** encrusted, that is the most
> perturbing aspect.

That could explain why he frequent nearby laundrymats even if his wife
tells him that their laundry machine are in good working order.

Margaret von B.

April 25th 05, 02:17 AM

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Margaret von B. wrote:
>> "Lionel" > wrote in message
>> news:426
>
> <snip>
>> >
>> > I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>
>> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>
>> MvB
>
> Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
> about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
> might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?
>

LOL!

I'm starting to wonder if you're really Howard's audiophile alter ego. At
least the signs of irrevarsible, devastating impotence are comparable.

"Strange things happen to those who lose their ability to perform sexually."
-Michael Savage-

Cheers,

Margaret

Margaret von B.

April 25th 05, 02:19 AM

"Lionel" > wrote in message
...
> a écrit :
>> Margaret von B. wrote:
>>
>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>>>news:426
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>
>>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>>
>>>MvB
>>
>>
>> Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
>> about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
>> might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?
>
> It seems that the charm hasn't worked with our George "Betty Boop"
> Middius...
> ...Perhaps he doesn't like fish.

The only thing that hasn't worked is your brain. As usual.

Cheers,

Margaret

Joseph Oberlander

April 25th 05, 03:57 AM

ScottW wrote:

> "Margaret von B." > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>
>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>
>
> He may have had one... once upon a time.

*shudder*

Man now I need some Vodka to get that image out of my head. Like a
whole bottle...

Mike McKelvy

April 25th 05, 08:39 AM

Cal's still got his head in the same place:

>Your lack of class is only compounded by your lack of history. AR
>built two things- a conceptually valid but somewhat nastily built
>turntable which provided Merrill a platform to upgrade and Linn a
>product to copy-via a MM-to-Deb-to-Madge roundabout-at improved spec
>and grossly inflated price, and the Boston Bland line of speakers
which
>traded off efficiency-and naturalness and all sorts of subtle sonic
>virtue-for bass extension out of a cheap-to-manufacture,
>spouse-accepted small wood box (which we today call the "monkey
>coffin".)

>But this sort of verbiage is your stock in trade, isn't it, McKelvy?

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

AR speakers and the so called Boston sound were advances in the field.
The Boston or East Coast sound was one of 2 standards for loudspeaker
sound at on time, the other being the West Coast or JBL/Altec sound.
The Latter being noted for mid bass bloat and the former for it's lack
of same.

I have never heard the term monkey coffin until you used it, buy no
surprise I guess coming from a guy who repeatedly shows an affinity for
crap audio. The thing is, being the snob you are, you aren't aware of
the fact that your prefernces aren't any more valid than those who used
to recognize Monkey Coffin's as the leap forward they were fopr the
time. Then of course there's the fact that completely blow off the
rest of the list of Kloss's achievements.

You go out of your way to troll for response like mine, then feign
surpise and anger when you get them?

Arny Krueger

April 25th 05, 11:55 AM

Joseph Oberlander wrote:
> ScottW wrote:
>
>> "Margaret von B." > wrote in
>> message ...
>>
>>>> I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>
>>> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>
>>
>> He may have had one... once upon a time.
>
> *shudder*
>
> Man now I need some Vodka to get that image out of my head. Like a
> whole bottle...

Don't be too literal. This could be about how Middius thinks of
Sackman.

Lionel

April 25th 05, 01:54 PM

Margaret von B. a écrit :
> "Lionel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
a écrit :
>>
>>>Margaret von B. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Lionel" > wrote in message
>>>>news:426
>>>
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>>>
>>>>MvB
>>>
>>>
>>> Believe me, everyone within a half mile downwind of you knows all
>>>about vaginas. You're outlawed in several midwestern states because you
>>>might turn junior high school boys gay with one whiff, right?
>>
>>It seems that the charm hasn't worked with our George "Betty Boop"
>>Middius...
>>...Perhaps he doesn't like fish.
>
>
> The only thing that hasn't worked is your brain. As usual.

Don't you know the story of the blind man who pass in front
of a fish shop and says "Good morning gals !"

:-)

Joseph Oberlander

April 25th 05, 03:37 PM

Arny Krueger wrote:

> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>
>>ScottW wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Margaret von B." > wrote in
>>>message ...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>>He may have had one... once upon a time.
>>
>>*shudder*
>>
>>Man now I need some Vodka to get that image out of my head. Like a
>>whole bottle...
>
>
> Don't be too literal. This could be about how Middius thinks of
> Sackman.

Aaa! The images keep getting worse!

Howard Ferstler

April 25th 05, 05:46 PM

"Margaret von B." wrote:

> I wonder what loser wrote this crap?

I worked directly with Kloss, and we actually composed the
piece about him right over the phone. (He did not have
email.) He answered questions and I wrote the article right
there and then read it back to him. He was pleased. This was
about a week before he died.

I contacted the Bose people directly by email and they
answered a questionnaire that I sent to them. I wrote the
piece and sent a draft back to them for proofing. They were
pleased and made no changes, and what you saw is what I
composed.

If you can find, anywhere, a copy of those articles that was
given my byline in The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound, feel
free to post it out there for the world to read.

You know, you tweakos are a disgrace to any hobby. I mean,
twenty or thirty years ago audio was a hobby for gentlemen
and people who were aware that technical principles are
involved, and the whole business had class. These days, it
is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
others who set the standards, and it is therefore no wonder
that audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes. Yeah,
you guys are doing yourselves in, and in a way I am almost
happy about it.

Frankly, I am glad that I am not in the business in a way
that puts my income at risk if I disagree with tweakos or
even mainstreamers who coddle people like you. Atkinson,
that poor soul, probably is as aware of the stupidity of
tweako audio as Arny, Nousaine, and I, but unlike us he has
to keep playing the game or risk the wrath of the lunkheads.

Enjoy your audio rig, pal.

Howard Ferstler

Howard Ferstler

April 25th 05, 06:03 PM

wrote:
>
> > The things you do not know are remarkable. From the current
> > issue of The Encyclopedia of Recorded Sound:
> >
> > KLOSS, HENRY, February 21, 1929 - January 31, 2002. Born in
> > Altoona, Pennsylvania, Audio Hall of Fame member and Emmy
> > award winner Henry Kloss founded or helped to found five
> > different and successful electronics companies, and is
> > justifiably considered to be a legendary figure in
> > consumer-audio (and video) history.

> This is the antithesis of high end audio! He's the Strasberg of Boston
> Blando!!

High end audio is in many ways a myth. It may look exotic
and esoteric, but a lot of it is the very definition of bad
taste, excess, low self esteem, and ignorance.

Basically, we have speakers that are glorified garage-built
jobs, assembled with know knowledge on the part of the
builders at all of acoustics, that feature expensive
cabinets and drivers that can be found in much cheaper
systems. We have amps that are overbuilt, overweight, and
often under-engineered. We have CD players that feature
modestly priced or even cheap transports and digital
electronics built in the Far East stuffed into weighted
cabinets that feature analog outputs that are often
contoured for pleasant sound and not accurate DAC behavior.
We have LP turntables that are basically not much more than
expensive machine art and which are either overkill in the
extreme when we consider the quality of the software or else
functional junk. We have outboard DACs that are a waste of
money and accessories (some, like exotic wire and line
conditioners, being outrageously expensive) that cater to
people with the intelligence of the brain dead and the
aesthetic sensibilities of cave men.

Kloss was partly responsible (most of the other part was
handled by Ed Villchur) for turning audio (or at least
speaker audio) into a hobby for intelligent people. In the
old days, he (and Villchur) made it possible for someone
with a modest amount of space and a modest amount of cash to
get speaker sound in a home-listening environment that could
match or surpass what any big-spending plutocrat could come
up with. It is easy to see why a tweako would not like the
guy, because he basically made great-sounding audio
available to the man on the street.

Yeah, the tweakos do not like the man on the street. They
want to participate in an esoteric hobby that allows them to
gain self esteem by virtue of the exotic nature of their
hardware. However, anyone who has to go that route has
problems that transcend any they might be having with their
audio gear.

> But his products were much better than the stuff at Wal-mart today.

And better than a lot of so-called high-end stuff, too.

Howard Ferstler

Sander deWaal

April 25th 05, 06:19 PM

Howard Ferstler > said:

>You know, you tweakos are a disgrace to any hobby. I mean,
>twenty or thirty years ago audio was a hobby for gentlemen
>and people who were aware that technical principles are
>involved, and the whole business had class. These days, it
>is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
>others who set the standards, and it is therefore no wonder
>that audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes. Yeah,
>you guys are doing yourselves in, and in a way I am almost
>happy about it.

What tubes, Howard? SET 300Bs or just KT88 in push pull?

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

George M. Middius

April 25th 05, 11:05 PM

Obie Wanna Clue said:

> > Middius
> > Sackman.

> Aaa! The images keep getting worse!

The vast majority of RAO associates a very specific image with Arnii F.
Krooborg. Since you want to cradle and support Mr. ****, an analogous
image for you might be a toilet. No, wait, I misspoke -- you're clearly
too low-class to embrace indoor plumbing as an avatar. Would you like to
be a septic pit, or do you prefer a rustic outhouse?

George M. Middius

April 25th 05, 11:10 PM

Brother Horace the Eternally Envious whined:

> These days, it
> is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
> others who set the standards

You are so right, Clerkie. We are the Star Chamber of audio. We decide
what comes to market, how it is sold, and who gets to sell it. More
importantly -- from your point of view, that is -- we also dictate who
gets to publish their stuff™ in the glossy, fully loaded magazines, and
who is relegated to cheap newsprint rags with low circulation. Be careful,
Harold, lest you ignite an unquenchable ire in the Gods of Consumer Audio,
and risk losing forever your ability to see your name in print.

You have been warned. Take care not to offend us again, Clerkie.

George M. Middius

April 25th 05, 11:32 PM

Brother Horace the Impoverished said:

> High end audio is in many ways a myth.

That's the spirit, Clerkie. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Margaret von B.

April 25th 05, 11:49 PM

"Howard Ferstler" > wrote in message
...
> "Margaret von B." wrote:
>
>> I wonder what loser wrote this crap?
>
> I

babble babble babble

Nobody cares about your miserable life. This is an audio newsgroup.

Margaret

Mike McKelvy

April 26th 05, 12:09 AM

Dormer confuses his laundry with mine:

>Mickey insists on them being **** encrusted, that is the most
>perturbing aspect.

Hunger gave you amnesia?

Mike McKelvy

April 26th 05, 12:11 AM

Eddie tries to keep up:

>That could explain why he frequent nearby laundrymats even if his wife

>tells him that their laundry machine are in good working order.

Do they have such things in the 3rd world hovel where you reside?

Clyde Slick

April 26th 05, 01:25 AM

"Arny Krueger" > wrote in message
...
> Joseph Oberlander wrote:
>> ScottW wrote:
>>
>>> "Margaret von B." > wrote in
>>> message ...
>>>
>>>>> I was speaking about Sackman... Not about your vagina. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> As if you know something about vaginas. LOL!
>>>
>>>
>>> He may have had one... once upon a time.
>>
>> *shudder*
>>
>> Man now I need some Vodka to get that image out of my head. Like a
>> whole bottle...
>
> Don't be too literal. This could be about how Middius thinks of
> Sackman.
>
>

I think of you as a self admitted necrophilial child molester who assisted
in the design of Horizon ashtrays.

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[email protected]

April 27th 05, 04:07 AM

Sander deWaal wrote:
> Howard Ferstler > said:
>
> >You know, you tweakos are a disgrace to any hobby. I mean,
> >twenty or thirty years ago audio was a hobby for gentlemen
> >and people who were aware that technical principles are
> >involved, and the whole business had class. These days, it
> >is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
> >others who set the standards, and it is therefore no wonder
> >that audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes. Yeah,
> >you guys are doing yourselves in, and in a way I am almost
> >happy about it.
>
>
> What tubes, Howard? SET 300Bs or just KT88 in push pull?

ROTFLMAO!

Seriously, I don't begrudge the right of the masses to have decent
sound. But the good days were when you needed to be able to use a
soldering iron and read a schematic, and Kloss came around, and offered
a consumoworthy, spouse-acceptable product. Fine and well, but NOT as
good as really well built equipment with serious build cost and taking
up space and requiring user competence. The Ollies (my grandpa called
our friends in the Pacific rim that, for 'ollielentils': declasse'
today, but he thought he earned the right on Tinian...) took Kloss's
ideas and the race to zero was on...meanwhile they started buying up
all the good stuff, TUBE Marantz, Mac, Altec, JBL, for themselves from
dumb roundeyes and shipping it back on the q.t.

Since it's a business expense, Howard, for you, get some copies of the
Japanese Stereo Sound and MJ (Musen to Jikken) Audio Technology-you
could learn something.

Margaret von B.

April 27th 05, 07:42 AM

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Sander deWaal wrote:
>> Howard Ferstler > said:
>>
>> >You know, you tweakos are a disgrace to any hobby. I mean,
>> >twenty or thirty years ago audio was a hobby for gentlemen
>> >and people who were aware that technical principles are
>> >involved, and the whole business had class. These days, it
>> >is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
>> >others who set the standards, and it is therefore no wonder
>> >that audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes. Yeah,
>> >you guys are doing yourselves in, and in a way I am almost
>> >happy about it.
>>
>>
>> What tubes, Howard? SET 300Bs or just KT88 in push pull?
>
> ROTFLMAO!
>

Shouldn't it be ROTFWA$10W?

Margaret

Howard Ferstler

April 27th 05, 03:29 PM

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Brother Horace the Eternally Envious whined:
>
> > These days, it
> > is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
> > others who set the standards
>
> You are so right, Clerkie. We are the Star Chamber of audio. We decide
> what comes to market, how it is sold, and who gets to sell it. More
> importantly -- from your point of view, that is -- we also dictate who
> gets to publish their stuff™ in the glossy, fully loaded magazines, and
> who is relegated to cheap newsprint rags with low circulation. Be careful,
> Harold, lest you ignite an unquenchable ire in the Gods of Consumer Audio,
> and risk losing forever your ability to see your name in print.
>
> You have been warned. Take care not to offend us again, Clerkie.

You and your kind are symptomatic of much that is wrong with
America today and not just what is wrong with upscale audio.

Howard Ferstler

George M. Middius

April 27th 05, 11:26 PM

Brother Horace the Downwardly Mobile whined:

> > Brother Horace the Eternally Envious whined:
> >
> > > These days, it
> > > is guys like you, Atkinson, Middius, Dormer, "Clyde," and
> > > others who set the standards
> >
> > You are so right, Clerkie. We are the Star Chamber of audio. We decide
> > what comes to market, how it is sold, and who gets to sell it. More
> > importantly -- from your point of view, that is -- we also dictate who
> > gets to publish their stuff™ in the glossy, fully loaded magazines, and
> > who is relegated to cheap newsprint rags with low circulation. Be careful,
> > Harold, lest you ignite an unquenchable ire in the Gods of Consumer Audio,
> > and risk losing forever your ability to see your name in print.
> >
> > You have been warned. Take care not to offend us again, Clerkie.
>
> You and your kind are symptomatic of much that is wrong with
> America today and not just what is wrong with upscale audio.

Damn, but you're doing a lot of whining lately, Clerkie.

But let me take this opportunity that I am not a member of the moneyed
class of whom you are so resentful. My employment situation is very
similar to Clyde's. Remember how you cringed in dismay when he talked
about his upcoming retirement? I am not verging on retirement,
unfortunately, but I too am paid a modest salary for my contribution to
the economy. I daresay I earn more than Krooger but far less than John
Atkinson.

With that in mind, perhaps you'd like to rethink your attribution of moi
among the ruling class of "upscale audio".

Howard Ferstler

April 27th 05, 11:40 PM

"George M. Middius" wrote:

> > > You have been warned. Take care not to offend us again, Clerkie.

> > You and your kind are symptomatic of much that is wrong with
> > America today and not just what is wrong with upscale audio.

> Damn, but you're doing a lot of whining lately, Clerkie.

You guys make me sick. You are examples of the very worst
thing modern audio has to offer.

> But let me take this opportunity that I am not a member of the moneyed
> class of whom you are so resentful.

Within reason, I have no problems with the "moneyed class."
What I do have problems with are audio enthusiasts who are
apologists for stupidity and apologists for journalists who
spout claptrap that cons people into spending in a very dumb
way.

> My employment situation is very
> similar to Clyde's.

Given that you are possibly the same person, that is
understandable.

> Remember how you cringed in dismay when he talked
> about his upcoming retirement?

No, I do not remember. Because I am already retired, I could
not care less about who else retires.

> I am not verging on retirement,

You have my sympathies.

> unfortunately, but I too am paid a modest salary for my contribution to
> the economy.

What does trash collecting pay these days?

> I daresay I earn more than Krooger but far less than John
> Atkinson.

Who the hell knows what anyone here earns?

> With that in mind, perhaps you'd like to rethink your attribution of moi
> among the ruling class of "upscale audio".

OK, so you are basically just an apologetic pest for bunkum
audio, preference as a reference standard, and said class
rulers.

Howard Ferstler

Clyde Slick

April 28th 05, 12:54 AM

"Howard Ferstler" > wrote in message
...
> "George M. Middius" wrote:
>
>
>> My employment situation is very
>> similar to Clyde's.
>
> Given that you are possibly the same person, that is
> understandable.
>

Oh how I hate splitting my paycheck with him.
beans tonight, again.

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George M. Middius

April 28th 05, 01:00 AM

Brother Horace the Tumescently Impotent:

> What I do have problems with are audio enthusiasts who are
> apologists for stupidity and apologists for journalists who
> spout claptrap that cons people into spending in a very dumb
> way.

You've stepped in it yet again. You propound the worst kind of audio
stupidity I've found. You are the one who "spouts claptrap".

Nonetheless, I -- along with John Atkinson, Stephen McElroy, and every
other Normal of whom you're quiveringly envious -- have no problem with
you giving voice to your views, however misguided I find them.

What you persist in denying is that people attack you because of your poor
character, your reprehensible behavior, and your complete lack of
scruples. And then there's the mockery. ;-)

Clyde Slick

April 28th 05, 01:04 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Brother Horace the Tumescently Impotent:
>
>> What I do have problems with are audio enthusiasts who are
>> apologists for stupidity and apologists for journalists who
>> spout claptrap that cons people into spending in a very dumb
>> way.
>
> You've stepped in it yet again. You propound the worst kind of audio
> stupidity I've found. You are the one who "spouts claptrap".
>
> Nonetheless, I -- along with John Atkinson, Stephen McElroy, and every
> other Normal of whom you're quiveringly envious -- have no problem with
> you giving voice to your views, however misguided I find them.
>
> What you persist in denying is that people attack you because of your poor
> character, your reprehensible behavior, and your complete lack of
> scruples. And then there's the mockery. ;-)
>

haw, haw , haw!

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Howard Ferstler

April 28th 05, 01:54 AM

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Brother Horace the Tumescently Impotent:
>
> > What I do have problems with are audio enthusiasts who are
> > apologists for stupidity and apologists for journalists who
> > spout claptrap that cons people into spending in a very dumb
> > way.

> You've stepped in it yet again. You propound the worst kind of audio
> stupidity I've found. You are the one who "spouts claptrap".

But I do not try to talk suckers into spending big money on
overkill or useless products. Yeah, I know that you think
the suckers are happy being suckers. However, I do not think
that ignorance is bliss, and I do not give a fig about
tweako-freako arguments about preference. Preference without
balance is baloney. Heck, remember that cannibals prefer to
eat humans. Preference is not sacrosanct.

> Nonetheless, I -- along with John Atkinson, Stephen McElroy, and every
> other Normal of whom you're quiveringly envious -- have no problem with
> you giving voice to your views, however misguided I find them.

Actually, I probably will be retiring from formal audio
writing in a short while. (I still have a few product
reviews to get written, and I owe the work to the people who
have sent and will be sending products to me to audition.)
Getting too old for the work and I simply have come to the
conclusion that the hobby is pretty much finished as a
notable enterprise. Besides, I need to be really retired and
not working part time as an audio writer, fun though it
sometimes may be.

I rather hope to simply enjoy my audio systems as ends in
themselves for a while (musical ends and not boy-toy ends
like what some of you guys consider important), instead of
having them on hand to review products and recordings.

This means that I will be leaving the field to your people.
Horrors!

> What you persist in denying is that people attack you because of your poor
> character, your reprehensible behavior, and your complete lack of
> scruples. And then there's the mockery. ;-)

As I noted, at no time have I ever tried to trick a person
into spending big bucks on overkill or useless products. On
the other hand, most tweako reviewers do just that - and it
appears to be getting worse.

Frankly, given the trend (the real high end failing, more
claptrap than ever, in spite of the counter-fire operations
that try to stop it), I cannot see how rational audio can do
anything but decline.

Howard Ferstler

George M. Middius

April 28th 05, 02:23 AM

Brother Horace the Ever Misguided quibbled:

> > Brother Horace the Tumescently Impotent:

I meant to say "Brother Horace the Tumescently Impotent said". But I'm
sure you got the idea, impotent though you may be.

> > > What I do have problems with are audio enthusiasts who are
> > > apologists for stupidity and apologists for journalists who
> > > spout claptrap that cons people into spending in a very dumb
> > > way.
>
> > You've stepped in it yet again. You propound the worst kind of audio
> > stupidity I've found. You are the one who "spouts claptrap".

> But I do not try to talk suckers into spending big money on
> overkill or useless products.

Perhaps not in your view. A rational person observes that you yammer on
mindlessly about meaningless aspects of audio equipment. You induce people
to waste their time reading your repetitive and useless gibbering. That's
a theft that cannot be repaid. No store will warrant the time a gullible
consumer wastes investigating worthless crap.

> Preference is not sacrosanct.

Did I mention you're crazy as a loon?

> > Nonetheless, I -- along with John Atkinson, Stephen McElroy, and every
> > other Normal of whom you're quiveringly envious -- have no problem with
> > you giving voice to your views, however misguided I find them.

> Actually, I probably will be retiring from formal audio
> writing in a short while.

You've said the same thing several times before. Excuse me for yawning.
Yawn.

> > What you persist in denying is that people attack you because of your poor
> > character, your reprehensible behavior, and your complete lack of
> > scruples. And then there's the mockery. ;-)

> As I noted, at no time have I ever tried to trick a person
> into spending big bucks on overkill or useless products.

Thanks for admitting Mr. Fresltre that, its like you have no defense to
the charges and all, you can say is you didn't do something nobody accused
you of, LOt"S! ;-)

Howard Ferstler

April 28th 05, 02:52 AM

"George M. Middius" wrote:

> Thanks for admitting Mr. Fresltre that, its like you have no defense to
> the charges and all, you can say is you didn't do something nobody accused
> you of, LOt"S! ;-)

I need not defend myself against a dirtbag like you,
Middius.

PS: thanks again for supplying that ID number.

Howard Ferstler

George M. Middius

April 28th 05, 04:03 AM

Harold, your irate steaming is unseemly. A sincere Professional Audio
Clown should be able to make more than one joke.

> > Thanks for admitting Mr. Fresltre that, its like you have no defense to
> > the charges and all, you can say is you didn't do something nobody accused
> > you of, LOt"S! ;-)
>
> I need not defend myself against a dirtbag like you,
> Middius.

That rationale at least explains why you didn't even try.

> PS: thanks again for supplying that ID number.

I was pleased to help you do the right thing. (Confidentially, I couldn't
bear to watch if Krooger tried to help you. That would be like watching
Larry and Curly try to build a rocket ship.)

[email protected]

April 28th 05, 04:10 AM

Audio was a hobby when people built their own stuff, like ham radio.
Now both are all appliance operators. Ham radio will die as worldwide
cellphone calls become free and the HF bands are crapped up by BPL and
dozens of other uses for spectrum by people with money to buy
politicians sticking it in ham radio's ass like UPS did to 220. Audio
had a brief renaissance as a hobby largely due to the 'triode tweaks'
who at least built stuff. But no, the objectivoids did more to kill
HOBBY audio than the high-end saloon sales people and the
Stereopile/Obsolete Sound magazines.

If you can buy it at best buy, it ain't a hobby. Simple as that.

Margaret von B.

April 28th 05, 06:03 AM

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>babble babble babble
> If you can buy it at best buy, it ain't a hobby. Simple as that.
>

Is that why you seem to make all your purchases at a street corner?

You stud!

:-)

Margaret

Margaret von B.

April 28th 05, 06:07 AM

"George M. Middius" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Harold, your irate steaming is unseemly. A sincere Professional Audio
> Clown should be able to make more than one joke.
>

I think he enjoys seeing his name in the subject line. It is his version of
fame and celebrity.

Anyway, I fixed it!

Cheers,

Margaret

Sander deWaal

April 28th 05, 05:16 PM

George M. Middius > said:

>> PS: thanks again for supplying that ID number.

>I was pleased to help you do the right thing. (Confidentially, I couldn't
>bear to watch if Krooger tried to help you. That would be like watching
>Larry and Curly try to build a rocket ship.)

Thank's mr. Miduius for admittiong its like, navigateing around Goggle
is, definately nOt rocket scieieieieince, without knowlege, to you,
LoT' %S!

ROTFLMEEEOOOOW! ;-)

PS imagine Arnold on the plane just about now, asking the attendant
for some fresh frosty cat feces..........

--

"Audio as a serious hobby is going down the tubes."
- Howard Ferstler, 25/4/2005

[email protected]

April 28th 05, 07:08 PM

Howard Ferstler wrote:
> "George M. Middius" wrote:
> >
> > Brother Horace the Tumescently Impotent:
> >
> > > What I do have problems with are audio enthusiasts who are
> > > apologists for stupidity and apologists for journalists who
> > > spout claptrap that cons people into spending in a very dumb
> > > way.
>
> > You've stepped in it yet again. You propound the worst kind of
audio
> > stupidity I've found. You are the one who "spouts claptrap".
>
> But I do not try to talk suckers into spending big money on
> overkill or useless products. Yeah, I know that you think
> the suckers are happy being suckers. However, I do not think
> that ignorance is bliss,

You have proven that to be true. You manage to be both ignorant and
miserable.

and I do not give a fig about
> tweako-freako arguments about preference.

Yes we know that you are agianst free thought.

Preference without
> balance is baloney.

Balance? Don't you mean regulation from the objectivist lunitic fringe?
No thank you.

Heck, remember that cannibals prefer to
> eat humans. Preference is not sacrosanct.

You are amazingly stupid. I suppose you would argue with people over
what flavors they prefer.

>
> > Nonetheless, I -- along with John Atkinson, Stephen McElroy, and
every
> > other Normal of whom you're quiveringly envious -- have no problem
with
> > you giving voice to your views, however misguided I find them.
>
> Actually, I probably will be retiring from formal audio
> writing in a short while.

Ah, the plagiarism is finally catching up with you.

(I still have a few product
> reviews to get written, and I owe the work to the people who
> have sent and will be sending products to me to audition.)
> Getting too old for the work and I simply have come to the
> conclusion that the hobby is pretty much finished as a
> notable enterprise.

The hobby is fine. You are the one that is finished.

Besides, I need to be really retired and
> not working part time as an audio writer, fun though it
> sometimes may be.

You make it look anything but fun.

>
> I rather hope to simply enjoy my audio systems as ends in
> themselves for a while (musical ends and not boy-toy ends
> like what some of you guys consider important), instead of
> having them on hand to review products and recordings.
>
> This means that I will be leaving the field to your people.
> Horrors!

No more plagairism? No more fraud? Maybe some of the other dorks can
take up the slack.

>
> > What you persist in denying is that people attack you because of
your poor
> > character, your reprehensible behavior, and your complete lack of
> > scruples. And then there's the mockery. ;-)
>
> As I noted, at no time have I ever tried to trick a person
> into spending big bucks on overkill or useless products.

You have opted for fraudulant published blind listening tests for your
flavor of public deception. You have tried to trick people into
thinking better equipment isn't reallt better. Thank goodness you are
such a low impact player in the field.

On
> the other hand, most tweako reviewers do just that - and it
> appears to be getting worse.

Who are you to judge? Did any of those journaists publish fraudulant
listening tests of any sort?

>
> Frankly, given the trend (the real high end failing, more
> claptrap than ever, in spite of the counter-fire operations
> that try to stop it), I cannot see how rational audio can do
> anything but decline.
>

What you percieve as "rational audio" has indeed declined. It has been
reduced to a few very low volume magazines and a few nuts spewing on
Usenet. Sounds like you are giving up the fight. Oh well. Your
addictions will keep you coming back for more.

Scott Wheeler

Clyde Slick

April 28th 05, 07:52 PM

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Howard Ferstler wrote:
>
>
> Heck, remember that cannibals prefer to
>> eat humans. Preference is not sacrosanct.
>
>

Does Howie prefer dark meat or white meat?
Does he prefer rare, medium, or well done?

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Clyde Slick

April 28th 05, 07:54 PM

"Sander deWaal" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> PS imagine Arnold on the plane just about now, asking the attendant
> for some fresh frosty cat feces..........
>

I think JA only got him a coach seat.

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George M. Middius

April 28th 05, 11:05 PM

Sander deWaal said:

> >I was pleased to help you do the right thing. (Confidentially, I couldn't
> >bear to watch if Krooger tried to help you. That would be like watching
> >Larry and Curly try to build a rocket ship.)

> Thank's mr. Miduius for admittiong its like, navigateing around Goggle
> is, definately nOt rocket scieieieieince, without knowlege, to you,
> LoT' %S!

Get a life, tweako.

> ROTFLMEEEOOOOW! ;-)

My cat is very pleasant, pal.

> PS imagine Arnold on the plane just about now, asking the attendant
> for some fresh frosty cat feces..........

Learn to write.

[email protected]

April 29th 05, 02:57 AM

Okay, so I am not all that shocked. Disappointed, a little, but not
shocked.

There have been good systems built with acoustic suspension
technology, but the reason it has become totally dominant is cheapness
rather than sound quality. Horns are not necessarily always the best
technology, but properly done they can give truly first rate results
and at reasonable costs vis-a-vis some "high end" box speakers with
notable failings, such as the flavorlessly agreeable Thiels.

I am sure Kloss's speakers were a big advance over some of the
speakers then available, but that does not make them perfect. In fact
there is no perfect speaker. But the enshrinement of Boston Bland as
the gold standard is wrong, and it's what I'm against. And Boston
Bland is the gold standard of objectivists, along with colossal solid
state amplifiers with good measurements that have sonic flaws at
milliwatt levels. Good efficient speakers and lower power but better
sounding amplifiers, regardless of what an Audio Precision or HP 339
may say, is a better paradigm if you want good sound, rather than just
numbers which are attractive.

jclause

April 29th 05, 07:44 PM

>My cat is very pleasant, pal.

Now George he likes his cat
He keeps it nice and fat..
He sets it a plate
And thinks its great
To serve it a well-done rat.

Hammingaway

George M. Middius

April 29th 05, 11:54 PM

jclause said:

> Now George he likes his cat
> He keeps it nice and fat..
> He sets it a plate
> And thinks its great
> To serve it a well-done rat.

I thought Dr. Seuss had passed on.....

Howard Ferstler

May 2nd 05, 09:50 PM

wrote:

> If you can buy it at best buy, it ain't a hobby. Simple as that.

You are probably partially correct. However, given that the
ultimate goal of the hobby is to listen to music, it could
be said that the current state of technological affairs is
better for the hobby than ever.

Just speculation, though.

Howard Ferstler

Howard Ferstler

May 5th 05, 02:05 AM

wrote:
>
> Howard Ferstler wrote:

> > Actually, I probably will be retiring from formal audio
> > writing in a short while.

> Ah, the plagiarism is finally catching up with you.

No, I am just sick of you and people like you. Audio has
become a hobby for nitwits. It is indicative of how the USA
is slipping when it comes to scientific thinking and the
scientific approach in general. There is more to the overall
problem than the taking over of audio by pinheads. Pinheads
are taking over a lot more, as well.

> > As I noted, at no time have I ever tried to trick a person
> > into spending big bucks on overkill or useless products.

> You have opted for fraudulant published blind listening tests for your
> flavor of public deception.

Did you actually read those articles?

> You have tried to trick people into
> thinking better equipment isn't reallt better.

Some of it IS better. However, when it comes to amps, wires,
CD players, and goofy gimmicks, the whole business has begun
to stink. As for tricking people, only a goofball like you
would think that trickery involves doing DBT comparisons.

> On
> > the other hand, most tweako reviewers do just that - and it
> > appears to be getting worse.

> Who are you to judge? Did any of those journaists publish fraudulant
> listening tests of any sort?

Many of them come up with fraudulent listening tests with
every review they publish.

> What you percieve as "rational audio" has indeed declined.

The first thing you have said in a long time that makes
sense.

> It has been
> reduced to a few very low volume magazines and a few nuts spewing on
> Usenet.

More expert perception by you. Congratulations.

> Sounds like you are giving up the fight.

Something is worth fighting for only if it is really worth
fighting for. Frankly, I do not think this is the case with
audio (high end or mainstream) any more. The rational
customer base is too small to matter.

> Oh well. Your
> addictions will keep you coming back for more.

Don't count on it.

Howard Ferstler