Klipsch Klone Builders Perhaps Not So Unusual

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From a Layne Audio web site:


>>Klipsch:
K-33 15" Woofer upgrade: spec match to the preferred mid 70's version
of this woofer, but with a much heavier magnet system and 15Hz lower
resonance to get a much deeper, richer bass response, $145 ea, this
woofer also has 4x the power handling of the stock K33, so you can use
moderate electronic bass EQ to further enhance the low end.
Heresy 12" upgrade woofer: long throw version of the original, takes
low bass input much better, $85 each, all new [currently on special for
$79]
Midrange driver [k 55]: We have located a very high quality replacement
for the old EV / Atlas / University drivers found in the classic
Klipsch horn loaded mids, only $79 each, this driver is built more
heavily and can take the low crossover point [~450Hz] of the larger
Klipsch speakers without distorting. The original drivers should really
never be run below 700Hz, as a result the lower midrange lacks detail
and can be quite distorted, especially at higher volume levels. Our new
driver has usable response down to 400Hz [horn permitting], and is
rated at 120w RMS crossed over as low as 500Hz. These also use the
older type phenolic diaphragms to maintain the "classic" sound lacking
in most modern drivers, which almost universally have harsher sounding
metal diaphragms.
Building your own Klipsch "clone" speakers?? We can also supply horn
lenses for the midrange driver, crossover parts, as well as alternate
choices for the woofer and tweeter.
K 77 Tweeter note: We are sold out of our NOS EV T35 / K 77 tweeters,
that's it, no more. In short there is no other tweeter that will fit
the Klipsch cabinets without considerable modification. We do have a
tweeter that does a good job and costs under $50, but as with all
potential replacement tweeters, due to the horn size it must be mounted
on top of the cabinet. If you want a set of original tweeters, I
suggest keeping an eye on eBay, as well as your local pawn shops and
used music equipment stores. Klipsch is supposed to have reproductions
available soon, but the price is about $200 each. Originals on eBay
often go for $200 - $300 per pair used. Don't bother with the plastic
"look alike" tweeters that sell for ~$35, they're junk.

Crossover upgrades: we can provide any parts you need to upgrade/
repair you Klipsch crossovers, or parts kits to build the new "ALK"
type crossovers [at very reasonable prices].<<

[Mike McKelvy]

Judging by the number of hits I got with Klipsch and speaker clones,
I'd say they are nearly extinct.

Found plenty for cloning ProAc and Watt/Puppy, nuttin' fer Klipsch.

Do you suppose it has anything to do with them being big, ugly, and
screechy?

[[email protected]]

Mike McKelvy wrote:
> Judging by the number of hits I got with Klipsch and speaker clones,
> I'd say they are nearly extinct.
>
> Found plenty for cloning ProAc and Watt/Puppy, nuttin' fer Klipsch.
>
> Do you suppose it has anything to do with them being big, ugly, and
> screechy?

I'd say it has to do with not looking in the right place. Most
screechiness heard from Klipsch classic speakers has to do with the
unsuitable amplifiers misguided listeners use.

[Margaret von B.]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Mike McKelvy wrote:
>> Judging by the number of hits I got with Klipsch and speaker clones,
>> I'd say they are nearly extinct.
>>
>> Found plenty for cloning ProAc and Watt/Puppy, nuttin' fer Klipsch.
>>
>> Do you suppose it has anything to do with them being big, ugly, and
>> screechy?
>
> I'd say it has to do with not looking in the right place. Most
> screechiness heard from Klipsch classic speakers has to do with the
> unsuitable amplifiers misguided listeners use.
>

Wrong again.

You really suck.


Cheers,

Margaret

[[email protected]]

Around you, Margaret, they screech from the stench.

[Margaret von B.]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Around you, Margaret, they screech from the stench.
>

"Strange things happen to those who lose their ability to perform sexually."
-Michael Savage-

Cheers,

Margaret

[[email protected]]

Well, I did okay with a 22-year old this morning-twice in an hour. Not
too bad for a slightly overweight, balding fortysomething-year old.

[[email protected]]

Oh, did I mention we did it the first time on my living room floor (on
a towel) while listening to Frank Sinatra through tube amps and Klipsch
KaScalas?

[George M. Middius]

said:

> Well, I did okay with a 22-year old this morning-twice in an hour. Not
> too bad for a slightly overweight, balding fortysomething-year old.

Arnii, how old did you say your "daughter" is?

[[email protected]]

She isn't Arny's daughter. Her father is a _successful_ military man.

[George M. Middius]

said:

> > > Well, I did okay with a 22-year old this morning-twice in an hour. Not
> > > too bad for a slightly overweight, balding fortysomething-year old.

> > Arnii, how old did you say your "daughter" is?

> She isn't Arny's daughter. Her father is a _successful_ military man.

So she cost more than a fiver, you mean?

[Mike McKelvy]

>I'd say it has to do with not looking in the right place. Most
>screechiness heard from Klipsch classic speakers has to do with the
>unsuitable amplifiers misguided listeners use.


Accurate ones?

[Mike McKelvy]

>Well, I did okay with a 22-year old this morning-twice in an hour. Not

>too bad for a slightly overweight, balding fortysomething-year old.


I'm sure her just needed the money.

[Mike McKelvy]

Oh, did I mention we did it the first time on my living room floor (on
a towel) while listening to Frank Sinatra through tube amps and Klipsch

KaScalas

Careful you don't get the Klap.

[Arny Krueger]

Mike McKelvy wrote:
>> Well, I did okay with a 22-year old this morning-twice in an hour.
>> Not
>
>> too bad for a slightly overweight, balding fortysomething-year old.
>
>
> I'm sure her just needed the money.

This explains everything. Cal's suffering from the advanced effects of
any number of *social diseases* obtained by punching everything that
can still breathe mist on a cold mirror.

[Will Brink]

In article om>,
wrote:

> Mike McKelvy wrote:
> > Judging by the number of hits I got with Klipsch and speaker clones,
> > I'd say they are nearly extinct.
> >
> > Found plenty for cloning ProAc and Watt/Puppy, nuttin' fer Klipsch.
> >
> > Do you suppose it has anything to do with them being big, ugly, and
> > screechy?
>
> I'd say it has to do with not looking in the right place. Most
> screechiness heard from Klipsch classic speakers has to do with the
> unsuitable amplifiers misguided listeners use.

Or the horrible horn tweeter, don't forget that! Damn things almost make
Bose sound good....

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

[[email protected]]

Will Brink wrote:
<<snip>>

>
> Or the horrible horn tweeter, don't forget that! Damn things almost
make
> Bose sound good....
>

The stock Avedon EV tweeter and midrange driver-called 'squawker' in
Klipsch parlance- are indeed questionable. However there is a fix: the
T35 is replaced by a JBL or Beyma driver and the squawker is replaced
by a different horn using any of several drivers, or by a ported box
using a couple of JBL big-magnet cone drivers. The key to Klipsch's
diehard loyal user base has always been the flawless mid-to-upper bass
smoothness, with the Klipschhorn proper giving pretty good seamless low
bass in the right room. Far better than any satellite-sub combo if you
are interested in baritone male vocalists, trombones, bari saxes, et
al. Electric bass sounds "right".

Upgrading the squawker and tweeter gives a much better overall speaker
and makes K-horns and La Scalas-probably BKs too-in the first rank of
speaker systems for all-around use.

Operated full range with a passive crossover-which Klipsch did a
pretty good job of-a single pair of just about any popular finals and a
good OPT with moderate feedback will run you out of the house (and,
unless you are in a remote farmhouse, have the fuzz over) easily. Of
course, a GOOD 100 watt solid state amp will as well if you insist.

[Mike McKelvy]

Cal's Ox is gored


>The stock Avedon EV tweeter and midrange driver-called 'squawker' in
>Klipsch parlance- are indeed questionable. However there is a fix: the

>T35 is replaced by a JBL or Beyma driver and the squawker is replaced
>by a different horn using any of several drivers, or by a ported box
>using a couple of JBL big-magnet cone drivers.

So this expensive speaker, is, in its original form, flawed. In your
own words.
I guess that makes it on a par with the AR's you seem to think aren't
so hot.


The key to Klipsch's
>diehard loyal user base has always been the flawless mid-to-upper bass

>smoothness, with the Klipschhorn proper giving pretty good seamless
low
>bass in the right room. Far better than any satellite-sub combo if you

>are interested in baritone male vocalists, trombones, bari saxes, et
>al. Electric bass sounds "right".

OSAF. Ever hear a Merlin VSM with a sub?


> Upgrading the squawker and tweeter gives a much better overall
speaker
>and makes K-horns and La Scalas-probably BKs too-in the first rank of
>speaker systems for all-around use.

In your opinon.

> Operated full range with a passive crossover-which Klipsch did a
>pretty good job of-a single pair of just about any popular finals and
a
>good OPT with moderate feedback will run you out of the house (and,
>unless you are in a remote farmhouse, have the fuzz over) easily. Of
course, a GOOD 100 watt solid state amp will as well if you insist.

So they will sound OK with an accurate (solid state) amp driving them.

That's such a relief to know you don't need to spend all that money for
the speakers and then in order to get them to sound good and then have
to hook up a POS tube amp to get them to sound decent.

Phew!


Contrary to your own delusions, the biggest part of the audiophilw
world uses non-horn speakers, and for good reason.
They don't like to have speakers that are big enough to need their own
zip code. Why should they when an MTM with SEAS, Scan-Speak, or
Dynaudio drivers, coupled with a decent subwoofer in a normal room can
give one a little slice of audio heaven, that most of us cherish, and
all with no behemoth bass comode in the room. Plus if we are among the
more wise among us we can get hold of an amp that will provide us with
all the power we need to play at any dB level we choose, and not a
single glowing bottle in sight.

Move into the 21st century already.

[[email protected]]

>
> >The stock Avedon EV tweeter and midrange driver-called 'squawker' in
> >Klipsch parlance- are indeed questionable. However there is a fix:
the
>
> >T35 is replaced by a JBL or Beyma driver and the squawker is
replaced
> >by a different horn using any of several drivers, or by a ported box
> >using a couple of JBL big-magnet cone drivers.
>
> So this expensive speaker, is, in its original form, flawed. In your
> own words.
> I guess that makes it on a par with the AR's you seem to think aren't
> so hot.
>

You bring up a good point: new Klipsch Classic speakers are indeed
'flawed' and at a high price point. However one may buy used K-Horns
and LaScalas reasonably or if one is a woodworker, build one's own.
This is a good project for the DIY constructor: hopefully someone will,
if Klipsch refuses to modernize their product, introduce a reasonably
priced commercial unit new. All the patents have run out.


>
> The key to Klipsch's
> >diehard loyal user base has always been the flawless mid-to-upper
bass
>
> >smoothness, with the Klipschhorn proper giving pretty good seamless
> low
> >bass in the right room. Far better than any satellite-sub combo if
you
>
> >are interested in baritone male vocalists, trombones, bari saxes, et
> >al. Electric bass sounds "right".
>
>
>
> > Upgrading the squawker and tweeter gives a much better overall
> speaker
> >and makes K-horns and La Scalas-probably BKs too-in the first rank
of
> >speaker systems for all-around use.
>
> In your opinon.

You are saying it could be worse??

>
> > Operated full range with a passive crossover-which Klipsch did a
> >pretty good job of-a single pair of just about any popular finals
and
> a
> >good OPT with moderate feedback will run you out of the house (and,
> >unless you are in a remote farmhouse, have the fuzz over) easily. Of
> course, a GOOD 100 watt solid state amp will as well if you insist.
>
> So they will sound OK with an accurate (solid state) amp driving
them.
>
> That's such a relief to know you don't need to spend all that money
for
> the speakers and then in order to get them to sound good and then
have
> to hook up a POS tube amp to get them to sound decent.
>
> Phew!
>
>
> Contrary to your own delusions, the biggest part of the audiophilw
> world uses non-horn speakers, and for good reason.

They are much more consumerable. They take little space in the store,
they are shipped easily, they fit in any car on the ride home, etc. But
the horn principle did not fall into disuse for purely sonic reasons,
even given the propensity of people to use harsh sounding high-feedback
large solid state amplifiers and to refuse to make the placement of
speakers in the listening room a high priority item.


> They don't like to have speakers that are big enough to need their
own
> zip code. Why should they when an MTM with SEAS, Scan-Speak, or
> Dynaudio drivers, coupled with a decent subwoofer in a normal room
can
> give one a little slice of audio heaven, that most of us cherish, and
> all with no behemoth bass comode in the room. Plus if we are among
the
> more wise among us we can get hold of an amp that will provide us
with
> all the power we need to play at any dB level we choose, and not a
> single glowing bottle in sight.

This antitube horse**** is a crock, because even thermiophobes
acknowledge it's possible to build tube amps that measure well. If you
prefer solid state technology, that's fine, but it isn't inherently
sonically better. No one is trying to make you buy a tube amp if you
don't like tubes. There are fine solid state amps out there. However,
most true audiophiles either prefer tubes or acknowledge that they have
some advantages sonically. Most people also like the appearance of
glowing tubes, which is why ceramic and metal envelope types never
found much favor in the audio field.

[Mike McKelvy]

After failing to convince anyone to run out and build a speaker big
enough for it's own zip code, CAL rationalizes anew.

> This antitube horse**** is a crock, because even thermiophobes
>acknowledge it's possible to build tube amps that measure well. If you

Sure it's possible, but those are expensive. With SS you can get more
bang for your buck and no audible problems generated by the amp at all.
Best of all no tubes to replace, ever.


>prefer solid state technology, that's fine, but it isn't inherently
>sonically better.

It's inherently less expensive and inherently more reliable.

No one is trying to make you buy a tube amp if you
>don't like tubes. There are fine solid state amps out there. However,
>most true audiophiles either prefer tubes or acknowledge that they
have
>some advantages sonically.

And your survey was conducted when exactly?
My hunch is that most audiophiles don't have tube anything, only a
small nostalgic group, even bother.
I woould further guess, that the majority of tube gear owners don't buy
the ones that sound just like SS, they buy the ones that don't, for the
same basic reason LP lovers buy their vinyl, BECAUSE it sounds
different.

> Most people also like the appearance of
>glowing tubes, which is why ceramic and metal envelope types never
>found much favor in the audio field.

Ah yes, and don't forget teh smell of burning dust after you fire one
of those buggers up after being idle for a while.

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The smell problem was greatly reduced with the practice of cleaning
once in a while.

Almost all the serious audio guys I know have some tube equipment, or
have had in the recent past, or would except for they are too lazy to
build one.

It's true solid state audio means no tubes to replace. It means there
are semiconductors to replace, which is invariably more work. The
transistors last longer but when they fail they really fail.

[Schizoid Man]

> wrote in message

> The smell problem was greatly reduced with the practice of cleaning
> once in a while.
>
> Almost all the serious audio guys I know have some tube equipment, or
> have had in the recent past, or would except for they are too lazy to
> build one.

Isn't that sort of arcanely implying that if you don't have (or have had)
tubes, you're not a serious audio guy?

> It's true solid state audio means no tubes to replace. It means there
> are semiconductors to replace, which is invariably more work. The
> transistors last longer but when they fail they really fail.

In several years of owning solid state electronics (amps, receivers, tuners,
CD players, DVD players, laptops) I have never had a transistor fail on me.
Fortunately.

[Mike McKelvy]

Cal's still not getting it. No surprise.

>The smell problem was greatly reduced with the practice of cleaning
>once in a while.

So you have to dust the tubes as well.

>Almost all the serious audio guys I know have some tube equipment, or

>have had in the recent past, or would except for they are too lazy to
>build one.

There's the snobbery I was waiting for, so, if you don't have or want
or feel like building your hi-fi, you are not serious.

I got news for you, I know many serious audiophiles who have no tube,
no desire for tubes, no, in the future or the past. They already it
get it, that bang for the buck AND reliability, AND clean undistorted
power, gives them rewarding listening. They don't need to spend gobs
of money on antique technology, that is deteriorating every time you
turn it on, and requires regular parts replacement to work at spec.
Sure they can afford the valve stuff, but what's the point? There's
all that music that money could buy, why spend it on less reliable
equipment? Wasn't the goal always to deliver the signal as if it
hadn't been changed in any way, other than made louder?



> It's true solid state audio means no tubes to replace. It means there

>are semiconductors to replace, which is invariably more work. The
>transistors last longer but when they fail they really fail.

In the 30 years I've owned hi-fi gear, I have had ONE unit blow any
transistors and that was only because I overdrove it knowingly. I've
had filter caps on an Accustat amp, that I haven't bothered to replace
because I had another amp that was ready to replace it without any
difference in the quaility of the output. While it may be true that
anecdotes don't prove anything, I think it very likley that virtually
every SS audiophile has pretty much the same story. The stuff works,
and works and works.

Your fascination with outdated technology is personal, not universal,
and you can still be a serious audiophile without any desire for tube
gear. If you don't try to build your own speakers at least once,
you're a pussy though. :-)

[Mike McKelvy]

Schizoid Man opined in response to Cal:

>> Almost all the serious audio guys I know have some tube equipment,
or
>> have had in the recent past, or would except for they are too lazy
to
>> build one.



>Isn't that sort of arcanely implying that if you don't have (or have
had)
>tubes, you're not a serious audio guy?

That's what I said. There may be hope for you. :-)

>> It's true solid state audio means no tubes to replace. It means
there
>> are semiconductors to replace, which is invariably more work. The
>> transistors last longer but when they fail they really fail.


>In several years of owning solid state electronics (amps, receivers,
tuners,
>CD players, DVD players, laptops) I have never had a transistor fail
on me.
>Fortunately

You're young, you have time.


The fact that parts for SS gear are so inexpensive, there's hardly any
reason for anybody that wants to stay in business to use stuff that
isn't reliable and up to spec.

I'm on my second CD player, and the first one still worked when I got
rid of it.
The best place to focus has always been and will continure to be
speakers. Nothing else makes as much sense, or as much difference IME.