Which inexpensive turntable?

[Jenn]

Hi all,

I'm in the market for a $400 or less TT/arm/cartridge. The rest of my
system is Rotel and Vandersteen. I listen to live music (wind ensemble
and orchestra) virtually every day.

Music Hall? Pro-ject? New Goldring with the Rega-like arm?

Your opinions would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Hi.

I have owned a Project Debut turntable for a couple of years and I use
it for a variety of different music types including some orchestral. I
have been very pleased with its performance in comparison with some
higher priced turntables. The only drawback for some would be the fact
that you have to change the speed manually. Since I only use it for
33rpm records this is not a problem for me.

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For years the best buy in a turntable was the Merrill modified AR. By
the time you got done little of the AR was left. Most knowledgeable
people considered the final Merrill product better than the Linn
Sondek, also a upgraded clone of the AR.

Sadly, Merrill quit the business.

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wrote:
>
>
<snipped>
>
> the Linn
> Sondek, also a upgraded clone of the AR.
>
Or, more directly, a rip-off of an Ariston.
>
> Sadly, Merrill quit the business.
>
>
Even sadder, Ivor Tiefenbrun did not quit the business.

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i don't blame Tiefenbrun, I blame the suckers,er, buyers of overpriced
Linn horse****.

[George M. Middius]

said:

> i don't blame Tiefenbrun, I blame the suckers,er, buyers of overpriced
> Linn horse****.

Give Ivor credit -- he understood that in marketing, style triumphs over
substance more often than not. It's the same principle behind the success
of Bose, Monster, Mark Levinson, etc.

It's a mistake to compare value-priced merchandise to luxury-priced stuff,
and that goes for every type of goods, not just electronics. The 'borgs are
too stupid to grasp that some products are not marketed to Them. I hope
you're smart enough to understand this simple notion.

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wrote:
> i don't blame Tiefenbrun, I blame the suckers,er, buyers of
overpriced
> Linn horse****.
>
>

So, you're saying that if the audiophile public were less gullible,
charlatans such as Tiefenbrun would be more honest?

However, keep in mind that the entire Linn empire began with ripping
off the Ariston and claiming it as "theirs".

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If they ripped it off from Ariston, Ariston didn't originate it. It's
like Carroll Shelby bitching at Cobra clones. The original Cobra was a
re-engined copy (AC Ace) of a copy (LOY 500) of a copy (JOY 500) of a
Ferrari Barchetta. Sort of a four wheel Britney Spears.

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wrote:
> If they ripped it off from Ariston, Ariston didn't originate it. It's
> like Carroll Shelby bitching at Cobra clones. The original Cobra was
a
> re-engined copy (AC Ace) of a copy (LOY 500) of a copy (JOY 500) of a
> Ferrari Barchetta. Sort of a four wheel Britney Spears.
>
>
Cal, Tiefenbrun's big hype about the Sondrek was the platter bearing,
_not_ the suspension system, which was in more or less common usage by
the early '70s (in much cheaper tables such as the little Thorens,
etc.). He claimed to have "invented" the bearing design, which was
simply a lie.

PS- the original Cobra *was* a re-engined (Ford 260 V8) AC, not a copy.

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The AC Ace itself was the copy. Sadly most have been butchered into
faux Cobras.

(An aside: Shel originally wanted the SB Chevy, GM said no, Ford said
yes. And Shel's main intent was to **** Enzo Ferrari off. He failed,
because Enzo loved the competition.)

Ivor's platter bearing was good but I'm sure it's not particularly
original. Merrill probably looked at the Sondek when he did his
upgrades, but so what? The Sondek is just nothing special. It's a good
design-so was the AR, and the suspension is the same. If it were
reasonably priced it would be a good value. Most everyone I knew who
evaluated both the LP12 and the full-on Merrill thought the Merrill was
the better table. Pink Triangle made a good one as well, but I never
seriously considered it just because of the name-say what you want, but
I didn't and still won't.

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wrote:
>
<snipped>


>Enzo loved the competition.)
>
>
Perhaps, at least until those warmed-over, re-bodied Lolas (aka, Ford
GT40) started handing him his ass.

[Jenn]

<<<<I have owned a Project Debut turntable for a couple of years and I
use
it for a variety of different music types including some orchestral. I
have been very pleased with its performance in comparison with some
higher priced turntables. The only drawback for some would be the fact
that you have to change the speed manually. Since I only use it for
33rpm records this is not a problem for me. >>>>

Thanks very much for the opinion. The Project is certainly up there
with those I am seriously considering and seeking out to listen to. My
other option is a turntable I already own: n 80s vintage Denon direct
drive... their top of the line at the time, the one with the large
base, etc. I might fit it with a good cartridge and see what happens.
But long ago I became a believer that belt drives sound better, even
inexpensive ones, as shown by my use in the 90s of, first, an Oracle,
then a VPI TNT that I found used. So, we'll see! Thanks again.

[jeffc]

"Jenn" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Thanks very much for the opinion. The Project is certainly up there
> with those I am seriously considering and seeking out to listen to. My
> other option is a turntable I already own: n 80s vintage Denon direct
> drive... their top of the line at the time, the one with the large
> base, etc. I might fit it with a good cartridge and see what happens.
> But long ago I became a believer that belt drives sound better, even
> inexpensive ones, as shown by my use in the 90s of, first, an Oracle,
> then a VPI TNT that I found used. So, we'll see! Thanks again.

Personally I think if you only have $400 for the whole shebang, you're
better off using that turntable you already own, then spend $300 on a
cartridge and the rest on a used record cleaning machine and alignment
tools. That will give you the most bang for the buck and if you decide to
upgrade later you won't be wasting anything by buying a new turntable.
Setup is crucial to good sound - more important than the components,
depending on how bad a job of setup you do. Having clean records is also
crucial, and again money spent on a cleaner will never be wasted no matter
how much you upgrade in the future.

[John C.]

On 3 Apr 2005 19:35:37 -0700, "Jenn" > wrote:

>
>Thanks very much for the opinion. The Project is certainly up there
>with those I am seriously considering and seeking out to listen to. My
>other option is a turntable I already own: n 80s vintage Denon direct
>drive... their top of the line at the time, the one with the large
>base, etc. I might fit it with a good cartridge and see what happens.
>But long ago I became a believer that belt drives sound better, even
>inexpensive ones, as shown by my use in the 90s of, first, an Oracle,
>then a VPI TNT that I found used. So, we'll see! Thanks again.
Those direct drive Denon's can be worth quite a bit of money. Check
out ebay.
John

[Joseph Oberlander]

I'd suggest a used basic Rega myself.

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It doesn't seem to me that you need a fancy turntable. I'm still using
an old Garrard SL65b with a Stanton 500 cartridge, and it doesn't sound
half bad.